/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2011-12-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 08 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:00] <@hub> I'd love to see us build accessibility with -Werror (not by default)
  4. # [00:12] <firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 708429 filed by saunders.neil@gmail.com.
  5. # [00:12] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708429 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Extra tab-stop in the Start Private Browsing dialog box.
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  20. # [01:58] <@eeejay> god, there are some real dorks out there...
  21. # [01:58] <@eeejay> toolkit/components/satchel/towel
  22. # [01:58] <@hub> uh?
  23. # [02:02] <davidb_> s/dorks/froods
  24. # [02:04] <@eeejay> hah
  25. # [02:04] <@eeejay> had to look that up
  26. # [02:13] <@tbsaunde> hub: that's what CFLAGS is for
  27. # [02:14] <@tbsaunde> but honestly I not convinced its a particularly good idea
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  29. # [02:20] <firebot> fmdevelopertim@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 708429 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
  30. # [02:20] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708429 tri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Extra tab-stop in the Start Private Browsing dialog box.
  31. # [02:21] <@hub> tbsaunde: I mean clearing them up to be able to do so. Not set them by default.
  32. # [02:26] <@tbsaunde> hub: ok, I'm personally I'm not convinced some of the gcc warnings are actually worth fixing
  33. # [02:27] <@tbsaunde> like other things would be an infinitely more useful way to spend my time
  34. # [02:33] <@hub> I do believe in warning free code. and the usefulness of these warnings
  35. # [02:33] <@hub> even if they might be innocent in a specific context, in other then can be a serious bug.
  36. # [02:33] * @tbsaunde shrugs
  37. # [02:34] <@tbsaunde> I'd agree in an ideal world
  38. # [02:34] <@tbsaunde> but see things like gcc's mismatched enum warning
  39. # [02:49] <firebot> hub@mozilla.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 579821 on bug 703770.
  40. # [02:49] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703770 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Mac Accessibility Verifier errors
  41. # [02:58] <firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 579920 on bug 703770.
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  49. # [05:03] <firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 689847.
  50. # [05:03] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689847 nor, --, mozilla11, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Expose active state on current item of selectable widgets
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  61. # [06:51] <firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 579793 on bug 455443.
  62. # [06:51] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=455443 nor, --, ---, hub, ASSI, cache the parent for the accessibilityAttributeValue(NSAccessibilityParentAttribute)
  63. # [06:53] <@tbsaunde> surkov: does "native" in the mac stuff confuse you too?
  64. # [06:54] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you mean things like nativeObject?
  65. # [06:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah
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  67. # [06:54] <@tbsaunde> I can do it but I have to stop and think for a second
  68. # [06:55] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'm not sure, maybe it's ok. What names would you suggest for platform and cross platform objects?
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  70. # [06:56] <@surkov> I think that 'native' comes from our GetNatveInterface()
  71. # [06:56] <@tbsaunde> yeah, I thought of that
  72. # [06:56] <@surkov> I'd like to see short and descriptive names
  73. # [06:56] <@surkov> for example, I'm not fun of mGeckoAccessible
  74. # [06:56] <@tbsaunde> hmm, platform maybe, but its a little longer
  75. # [06:56] <@surkov> MSAA use xpAccessible
  76. # [06:57] <@hub> it was nativeWrapper before
  77. # [06:57] <@tbsaunde> xpAccessible only makes sense with xpcom though no?
  78. # [06:57] <@hub> so
  79. # [06:57] <@hub> I'm open to suggestion if you prefer a different naming
  80. # [06:57] <@tbsaunde> no great ideas yet ;)
  81. # [06:57] <@surkov> wrapper might be not good here. I'd like to treat them as independent tree that is connected to our internal gecko tree
  82. # [06:58] <@surkov> xp mean cross platform maybe, dunno :)
  83. # [06:58] <@surkov> but maybe xpcom
  84. # [06:58] <@tbsaunde> yeah
  85. # [06:58] <@surkov> the same with me, I'm not sure i like names we have but don't have good ideas
  86. # [06:59] <@tbsaunde> I'm fairly fine with accessible and mAcc or mAccessible for the cross platform things
  87. # [07:01] <@hub> surkov: it is no longer a wrapper :-)
  88. # [07:01] <@hub> mAccessible or mAcc would work instead of the mGecko*
  89. # [07:03] <@tbsaunde> ppAcc would be nice as platform proxy acc, but it feels like hungarian notation though maybe tht's not terrible
  90. # [07:03] <@surkov> it works until you start to call mac object an accessible
  91. # [07:04] <@surkov> however the class name is mozAccessible
  92. # [07:04] <@surkov> that may be confusing
  93. # [07:08] <@tbsaunde> surkov: is proxyAcc confusing? sort of like accWrap we use in atk/
  94. # [07:08] <@surkov> which one should be proxy
  95. # [07:09] <@surkov> cross platform objects deal with platform object and vise versa
  96. # [07:09] <@surkov> and we need to have names for both sides
  97. # [07:10] <@tbsaunde> surkov: proxying between gecko accessible and the platforms accessibility api infrastructure like atk or oleacc / com
  98. # [07:11] <@surkov> so cross platform object on linux use atkObject, but functions of atk objects use just 'accessible' or 'document' etc
  99. # [07:12] <@tbsaunde> true
  100. # [07:12] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yeah, I realize the proxing is between what but which object referred by which object is a proxy
  101. # [07:13] <@surkov> we could say that platform object is a proxy between us and platform API and cross platform object wrapper could refer to it as proxyObject or proxyAccessible
  102. # [07:14] <@surkov> but does it mean we should rename NativeInterface to ProxyInterface?
  103. # [07:14] <@surkov> sounds ridicules
  104. # [07:15] <@tbsaunde> well, proxyObject but
  105. # [07:15] <@tbsaunde> why rediculus?
  106. # [07:15] <@surkov> however since NativeInterface returns a platform object then we could replace it on ProxyObject() or ProxyAccessible()
  107. # [07:16] <@surkov> because these object implement platform API interfaces, which aren't proxy interfaces
  108. # [07:16] <@surkov> or we could stay with native
  109. # [07:16] <@surkov> which means native for particular platofrm
  110. # [07:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: but they implement it by proxyingthe call to the right nsAccessible
  111. # [07:19] <@surkov> so nsAccessible is a proxy?
  112. # [07:19] <@tbsaunde> native seems like it might be native to gecko to me, but I don't think its horrible
  113. # [07:20] <@tbsaunde> no
  114. # [07:20] <@surkov> ok, good point
  115. # [07:21] <@surkov> maybe osObject os osAccessible?
  116. # [07:21] <@surkov> osNativeObject
  117. # [07:22] <@tbsaunde> I could do osAccessible / osObject
  118. # [07:27] <@surkov> hub ? ^
  119. # [07:28] <firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 708526 filed by eclipsechasers2@yahoo.com.
  120. # [07:28] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708526 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Can't Use Keyboard to Navigate to Link within Table Caption
  121. # [07:29] <@hub> members have to start with "m"
  122. # [07:31] <@tbsaunde> hub: of course
  123. # [07:31] * @tbsaunde not really sure what he thinks of that type of hungarian notation
  124. # [07:39] <@surkov> another question, what is alternative to GetNativeInterface()?
  125. # [07:39] <@surkov> that should be virtual method defined on cross platform accessible objects
  126. # [07:39] <@surkov> and ideally it shouldn't require casting on platform level
  127. # [07:40] <@surkov> can template help us here?
  128. # [07:40] <@tbsaunde> it could though I'm not sure if that's necessary
  129. # [07:42] <@surkov> or we could have a virtual method returns OSAccessible*. OSAccessible is prototyped as class OSAccessible;
  130. # [07:42] <@tbsaunde> actually I'm not sure w need templates, we might be able to pull a trick with a fake object and operator foo() with some #ifdef
  131. # [07:42] <@surkov> then on platform layer we can have typedef for it
  132. # [07:42] <@hub> tbsaunde: 'm' is more about namespace than hungarian notation
  133. # [07:42] <@tbsaunde> hub: I guess, its the same sort of purpose in a sense
  134. # [07:50] <@surkov> guys, take a look at bug 675137
  135. # [07:50] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=675137 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, remove nsIAccessible::getNativeInterface
  136. # [07:56] <@hub> looks good
  137. # [07:58] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, my one issue is I still want to see nsAccessNode die
  138. # [07:59] <@hub> I just need to typedef to obj_object on Mac
  139. # [07:59] <@hub> but that's fine
  140. # [07:59] <@hub> as obj_object* is typedef to id
  141. # [08:00] <@hub> which is the generic Objective-C object type
  142. # [08:00] <@surkov> hub, so that approach should work and you're fine with it
  143. # [08:01] <@surkov> tbsaunde: why do you talk about nsAccessNode?
  144. # [08:02] <@surkov> tbsaunde: otherwise I'm tempting to say I need to do a picture of nsAccessNode for you and send you some dart :)
  145. # [08:03] <@tbsaunde> surkov: lol
  146. # [08:03] <@hub> surkov: yep
  147. # [08:03] <@tbsaunde> surkov: because if nsAccessNode goes away so does nsAccessNodeWrap right? then where do you implment NativeObject()?
  148. # [08:03] <@surkov> I didn't think hard how to kill nsAccessNode (it's not needed on cross platform, atk and mac layers but we need to make msaa code nice somehow)
  149. # [08:04] <@surkov> in the meantime I would implement it on nsAccessNode
  150. # [08:04] <@tbsaunde> yeah, I can live in the mean time
  151. # [08:04] <@tbsaunde> it probably needs to wait till the dexpcom stuff is a good bit farther along
  152. # [08:04] <@tbsaunde> (omg so much xpcom :/)
  153. # [08:04] <@surkov> agree
  154. # [08:06] <firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 579920 on bug 703770.
  155. # [08:06] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703770 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Mac Accessibility Verifier errors
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  169. # [12:01] <firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 579994 on bug 457226.
  170. # [12:01] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=457226 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, NEW, mochitest for ARIA states
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  184. # [15:17] <@davidb> hi all!
  185. # [15:18] * davidb changes topic to '"build the web for everyone" | release schedule: http://mzl.la/LNc0W'
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  187. # [15:33] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ping
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  191. # [15:47] <firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 579994 on bug 457226.
  192. # [15:47] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=457226 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, NEW, mochitest for ARIA states
  193. # [15:47] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
  194. # [15:48] <@davidb> heyhey
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  203. # [16:10] <clown_mtg> everyone: the weekly gnome a11y irc meeting is starting in #gnome-a11y on irc.gnome.org. (Agenda: http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings#Agenda_for_the_Next_Meeting_.288_December.29)
  204. # [16:18] <@davidb> surkov: ping
  205. # [16:18] <@surkov> davidb: pong
  206. # [16:21] <clown_mtg> gnip gnop
  207. # [16:23] * @davidb is backchanneling
  208. # [16:29] <@davidb> surkov: do you think we should keep hierarchy for opt group?
  209. # [16:30] <@surkov> davidb: I didn't see a good reason to stop it doing, so I'm thinking to get some feedback
  210. # [16:31] <@davidb> feedback good in either case yeah
  211. # [16:31] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  212. # [16:34] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Thanks, I'll add a test for aria-readonly in the same place. Do you want to review that one again, or should I just add it for good?
  213. # [16:35] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I trust you :)
  214. # [16:36] <@davidb> surkov, MarcoZ have you noticed more contributor activity?
  215. # [16:36] <@davidb> I think we need to blame jdm (Josh Matthews)
  216. # [16:36] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Definitely!
  217. # [16:36] <@surkov> davidb: yeah, engagement team seems to work hard
  218. # [16:36] <@davidb> surkov: the whiteboard stuff helps a lot
  219. # [16:36] <@MarcoZ> davidb: There's this one person Surkov is mentoring who has been fixing bug 706369, for example.
  220. # [16:36] <@surkov> so I'm taking more time to find good-first-bugs
  221. # [16:36] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=706369 nor, --, mozilla11, jigneshhk1992, RESO FIXED, don't use nsIContent::GetChildAt to iterate through children
  222. # [16:37] <@davidb> it is great
  223. # [16:37] <@surkov> since it appears it really works :)
  224. # [16:37] * @MarcoZ agrees!
  225. # [16:37] <@davidb> yeah I'm quite surprised
  226. # [16:37] <@davidb> pleasantly
  227. # [16:37] <@surkov> same with me
  228. # [16:37] <@surkov> for years of inactivity
  229. # [16:37] <@davidb> you can invite them to this channel as you see fit
  230. # [16:37] <@surkov> yeah, I should do that
  231. # [16:38] <@surkov> but I don't know why new contributors prefers email
  232. # [16:38] <@surkov> so I'm doing much of mentoring via emails
  233. # [16:38] <@davidb> great
  234. # [16:39] <@davidb> it would be nice to coax them to a public list
  235. # [16:39] <@davidb> if they are comfortable
  236. # [16:39] <@davidb> by the way, check this out http://www.joshmatthews.net/bugsahoy/
  237. # [16:39] <@surkov> for the start to bugzilla, that's what I suggest them
  238. # [16:39] * @davidb nods
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  241. # [16:39] <@davidb> we have a hub
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  244. # [16:40] <@surkov> cool
  245. # [16:41] <@surkov> that's pretty good that accessibility starts from 'A' :)
  246. # [16:42] <@surkov> btw, we're not bad in terms of bug amount, 12 vs 28 of Firefox UI, 21 for Mobile :)
  247. # [16:42] <@surkov> so we have a choice
  248. # [16:42] <@surkov> we/they
  249. # [16:42] <@davidb> yeah it really helps
  250. # [16:43] <@tbsaunde> davidb: hmjorning
  251. # [16:43] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hi!
  252. # [16:43] <@davidb> oh golly now I have to remember why i pinged
  253. # [16:43] <@surkov> guys, we must have the page like https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/GFX/Contribute
  254. # [16:43] <@davidb> agreed
  255. # [16:44] <@surkov> anybody wants to take it?
  256. # [16:44] <@davidb> i must stop raising my hand
  257. # [16:44] * @surkov thinks Marco's blog gets active
  258. # [16:45] <@davidb> true
  259. # [16:45] <@hub> half asleep hub. time to make some coffee
  260. # [16:49] <@surkov> good post, MarcoZ
  261. # [16:49] <@davidb> tbsaunde: oh I remember. Still no LDAP info?
  262. # [16:50] <@tbsaunde> davidb: correct
  263. # [16:50] <@davidb> ok thanks
  264. # [16:52] <@tbsaunde> yw
  265. # [16:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Not that it would be of much use yet, since IMAP is still not available on mail.mozilla.com, and Zimbra webmail is inaccessible.
  266. # [16:53] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Thanks!
  267. # [16:53] <@MarcoZ> surkov: So if I want to land something on inbound, do I have to clone that thing, too, or do I push to it like I push to try?
  268. # [16:53] <@davidb> MarcoZ: oh crap
  269. # [16:55] * nhirata is now known as nhirata|afk
  270. # [16:57] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I think so, I have cloned inbound repo
  271. # [16:57] <@MarcoZ> surkov: OK!
  272. # [16:58] <@tbsaunde> man, the hg design from branches is completely on crack
  273. # [16:59] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: so, you can do this thing where you pull from inbound into a m-c tree then hg update -r tip then hg push inboud -r tip and somehow the hg gods make that do what you want
  274. # [16:59] <@tbsaunde> (note that works for aurora / beta too)
  275. # [17:01] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  276. # [17:01] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Yeah I know that I can do that, but I think I will just go with cloning it separately. I have the disc space, so I won't bother with all that merging that may go along with it.
  277. # [17:02] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: there's no merge involved
  278. # [17:03] * @tbsaunde is generally more anoyed by needing to move patches around and stuff more than the space
  279. # [17:03] <@tbsaunde> although the complete ineligance of it anoys me :)
  280. # [17:08] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  281. # [17:11] <@MarcoZ> Landed. Another bugkill one off the list!
  282. # [17:12] <@davidb> nice
  283. # [17:14] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  284. # [17:15] <@davidb> ehsan: do you know the rules of thumb about using nsWeakFrame?
  285. # [17:18] <ehsan> davidb: that's a trick question, isn't it?
  286. # [17:19] <@davidb> ehsan: not really. Should it be used aggressively or only when we are pretty sure the frame tree can change?
  287. # [17:19] <@davidb> ehsan: like if we call into layout, but we know layout shouldn't reflow based on the call, should we future protect or not?
  288. # [17:20] <ehsan> davidb: when you expect the frame to die. its use has perf implications
  289. # [17:20] <ehsan> davidb: what is the scenario?
  290. # [17:20] <@davidb> ehsan: measureable perf implications?
  291. # [17:20] <ehsan> davidb: depending on how you use it, yes
  292. # [17:20] <@davidb> ehsan: take a glance at nsAccessible.cpp https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=splinter.html&bug=591363&attachment=578327
  293. # [17:21] <@davidb> ehsan: I'm using it outside a loop where we walk a parent chain.
  294. # [17:21] <@davidb> ehsan: the only potential candidate for reflow would be view->GetVisibility
  295. # [17:21] <@davidb> but that doesn't reflow today.
  296. # [17:22] <ehsan> davidb: well then you don't need to use a weakframe, right?
  297. # [17:22] <@davidb> ehsan: that's what I'm hearing.
  298. # [17:22] <@davidb> I think I'm the odd man out here.
  299. # [17:23] <@davidb> ehsan: my concern is that there are not guarantees that these calls will continue to not reflow
  300. # [17:23] <@hub> MarcoZ: did you file a bug about Zimbra webmail not being accessible?
  301. # [17:23] <ehsan> davidb: well, add a comment to that function saying that if this reflows, we also need to modify this other place
  302. # [17:24] <@davidb> ehsan: if I knew it would crash dependably, I'd rest easier.
  303. # [17:25] <@davidb> ehsan, surkov, tbsaunde ok I'll remove the weak frame usage. Sorry to belabour this.
  304. # [17:25] <@MarcoZ> hub: Nope. I was told once that this is an old interface hardly anybody is still maintaining, so I won't bother. Besides, it's not Mozilla-made, but I think it's a Yahoo! thing.
  305. # [17:25] <@surkov> davidb: bingo!
  306. # [17:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well, it probably wouldn't be that hard to create a rraii class whose purpose was to assert if reflow was caused later in the stack
  307. # [17:25] <@surkov> I don't like to use things when I don't understand why they are for :)
  308. # [17:25] <@davidb> tbsaunde: interesting
  309. # [17:26] <@surkov> in particular case
  310. # [17:26] <ehsan> davidb: with frame poisoning, it will crash dependably
  311. # [17:27] <@tbsaunde> davidb: but imo the right solution is that if a layout person wants to change a functions gaurentee that it not reflow then they are responsible for checking the call sites to make sure that is fine
  312. # [17:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: whenever I ask about guarantees I'm told there are none.
  313. # [17:27] <@MarcoZ> Wow, my blog post quite hit the nerve! Lots of retweets and people picking it up who never tweeted about accessibility before.
  314. # [17:27] <@tbsaunde> (feel free to replace not reflow with $other_property)
  315. # [17:28] <@davidb> ehsan: but the reflow has to be dependable (could be timing related)
  316. # [17:28] <@davidb> also tree related
  317. # [17:28] <ehsan> davidb: I think you've lost me, you were talking about how no reflow can happen
  318. # [17:28] <@davidb> huh?
  319. # [17:29] <ehsan> "but the reflow has to be dependable (could be timing related)"
  320. # [17:29] <ehsan> what reflow?
  321. # [17:29] <@davidb> ehsan: i'm talking about *if* there is reflow
  322. # [17:29] * @surkov wonders what is the status of video captions implementation
  323. # [17:29] <@davidb> surkov: we should ask hub to poke rgiles
  324. # [17:30] <@surkov> he sits next to hub?
  325. # [17:30] <@davidb> ehsan: when i talk about potential reflow, i'm talking about GetVisibility changing in the future to potentially cause reflow, depending on env such as interrupted reflow, the tree itself, timing etc.
  326. # [17:31] <@davidb> but i was hoping i was done belabouring this :)
  327. # [17:31] <ehsan> davidb: we don't use weakframes out of the fear of future :P
  328. # [17:31] <@davidb> apparently so
  329. # [17:32] <@davidb> it is an interesting situation
  330. # [17:32] <@davidb> if i have to fix a frame crash at christmas you are all in danger :)
  331. # [17:32] <@surkov> davidb: I think rraii class will help for possible future changes, it will assert during mochitest
  332. # [17:32] <@davidb> yeah
  333. # [17:32] <@davidb> it is a good idea
  334. # [17:35] <@hub> davidb, surkov: I'll ask him.
  335. # [17:35] * @tbsaunde not completely convinced
  336. # [17:35] <@tbsaunde> though as a debug only thing its hard to argue with
  337. # [17:36] <@surkov> hub, thanks
  338. # [17:36] * Quits: nhirata|afk (nhirata.bu@moz-2A9C9106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: nhirata|afk)
  339. # [17:38] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I also don't get your concern about "getting rid of verbs in function names"
  340. # [17:40] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it is a style issue that I'm happy to discuss not now :)
  341. # [17:40] <@MarcoZ> LOL
  342. # [17:40] <@tbsaunde> I get that part, laters fine :)
  343. # [17:41] <firebot> masayuki@d-toybox.com requested review from bugs@pettay.fi for attachment 580056 on bug 504586.
  344. # [17:41] <firebot> masayuki@d-toybox.com changed the Status on bug 504586 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  345. # [17:41] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504586 nor, --, ---, masayuki, ASSI, mochitest-plain: docshell/test/navigation/test_bug430723.html fails when test window does not have f
  346. # [17:47] <@davidb> surkov: did you find a taker for the contribute wiki page?
  347. # [17:47] <@surkov> nope
  348. # [17:47] <@surkov> MarcoZ, do you want to take it?
  349. # [17:48] <@surkov> I could put it into my todo list
  350. # [17:48] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Not sure....
  351. # [17:48] <@surkov> ok
  352. # [17:49] <@davidb> surkov: i'll take it
  353. # [17:49] <@surkov> I'll put it on my todo list, if anybody will want to take it then please feel free (cc tbsaunde, hub)
  354. # [17:49] <@surkov> davidb: great!
  355. # [17:49] <@davidb> at least the first draft
  356. # [17:51] <@surkov> yeah, just get something, we'll take a look and suggest changes
  357. # [17:52] <@surkov> davidb: I hope you won't get overloaded
  358. # [17:55] * Joins: Flyingmana_ (Mana@moz-F1FABAB2.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  359. # [17:56] * Quits: Mana (Mana@moz-3BA8AE21.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout)
  360. # [17:56] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@D56EC373.FD4EBDEC.4873E54D.IP)
  361. # [17:58] <@davidb> s'ok, this feels like a force multiplier
  362. # [17:58] <@surkov> I'd say community multiplier
  363. # [17:59] <@surkov> btw, guys, can you think if these tests can be used to improve our automated testing https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pfwg/file/tip/ARIA/1.0/tests/test-files/
  364. # [18:01] <firebot> jigneshhk1992@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 580062 on bug 673689.
  365. # [18:01] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=673689 nor, --, ---, jigneshhk1992, NEW, introduce namespace role
  366. # [18:02] * @surkov thinks I have something for this night ^
  367. # [18:02] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@D56EC373.FD4EBDEC.4873E54D.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  368. # [18:03] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@FAA90180.BEB908B0.79933D60.IP)
  369. # [18:06] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how do those work as tests? they seem to be more samples
  370. # [18:07] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  371. # [18:07] <@surkov> yeah, it's samples
  372. # [18:07] <@surkov> there's no tests and it's sort of problem
  373. # [18:09] * Joins: jhk_ (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  374. # [18:10] <firebot> jigneshhk1992@gmail.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 580062 on bug 673689.
  375. # [18:11] <firebot> jigneshhk1992@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 580066 on bug 673689.
  376. # [18:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, its not terribly complicated, up to you :)
  377. # [18:14] <@tbsaunde> I figured since its late there :)
  378. # [18:14] <@hub> I'm filing a bug with IT for zimbra lack of a11y
  379. # [18:14] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if you promise it won't take long then I'd be happy :)
  380. # [18:14] <@hub> anyone want to be Cc on it?
  381. # [18:14] <@surkov> hub, add me please
  382. # [18:15] <@hub> surkov: done
  383. # [18:15] <@surkov> thx
  384. # [18:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so should I ask you for review?
  385. # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, starting it now :)
  386. # [18:16] <@surkov> great!
  387. # [18:16] <@davidb> hub: me
  388. # [18:16] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you want to know- http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1396835, but there's export in Makefile
  389. # [18:17] <@hub> done
  390. # [18:17] <firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 580066 on bug 673689.
  391. # [18:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: can you handle whitespaces things btw, or should I check them separately?
  392. # [18:17] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=673689 nor, --, ---, jigneshhk1992, NEW, introduce namespace role
  393. # [18:17] <@surkov> jhk_: thanks for this big work, btw!
  394. # [18:17] <@davidb> jhk_: yes thank you!
  395. # [18:18] <jhk_> :)
  396. # [18:19] * @davidb steps out
  397. # [18:20] <@surkov> jhk_: I'm pretty sure tbsaunde will say this but 1) remove ROLE_ prefix from constant names and 2) copy/paste constants descriptions from idl please
  398. # [18:20] <@hub> I should get going to
  399. # [18:20] <@surkov> jhk_: I hope you feel well about nitpickers :)
  400. # [18:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: you can probably do it faster than me :)
  401. # [18:21] <@tbsaunde> though if I see something obvious I'll complain
  402. # [18:21] <@surkov> ah, just looking randomly :)
  403. # [18:21] <@tbsaunde> hi jhk_
  404. # [18:21] <jhk_> hi
  405. # [18:23] <jhk_> surkov: yeah I will do it . np.
  406. # [18:23] <@surkov> thx!
  407. # [18:24] <@surkov> jhk_: btw, in some method definitions you still use PRUint32 instead of Role
  408. # [18:24] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that's a build failure with that patch?
  409. # [18:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yeah, jhk_ shown me that
  410. # [18:25] <@surkov> maybe there's something wrong with his build, dunno
  411. # [18:25] <@surkov> if we won't spot anything then let's try the try server build
  412. # [18:27] * Quits: jhk_ (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  413. # [18:29] * Joins: jhk_ (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  414. # [18:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: and ROle.h was added to EXPORT_mozilla/a11y ?
  415. # [18:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: if so I'll just try locally, its easier than try
  416. # [18:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: correct, thakns
  417. # [18:31] <@surkov> jhk_: btw, did you run a11y mochitests?
  418. # [18:32] <jhk_> mochitests?
  419. # [18:34] <@surkov> jhk_: yeah, just do cd yourobjdir/_test/testing/mochitest; python runtests.py --a11y --autorun
  420. # [18:34] <@surkov> and see if's green
  421. # [18:37] <jhk_> ok i will try it
  422. # [18:38] <jhk_> surkov: runtests.py is not there
  423. # [18:40] <@surkov> hm, it should be
  424. # [18:41] <@surkov> jhk_: the folder _tests (not _test)
  425. # [18:41] <@surkov> though there's not _test folder at all
  426. # [18:54] * Quits: tofumatt (tofumatt@moz-9995AABD.hosts.kicksass.ca) (Ping timeout)
  427. # [18:59] * Joins: tofumatt (tofumatt@moz-9995AABD.hosts.kicksass.ca)
  428. # [19:14] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net) (Ping timeout)
  429. # [19:19] <@MarcoZ> jhk_: Are you building with AC_ADD_OPTION --enable-tests when you build Firefox? You need that in order to be able to run mochitests.
  430. # [19:19] <@MarcoZ> jhk_: in your .mozconfig file.
  431. # [19:21] <jhk_> marcoZ : yeah it is there in .mozconfig
  432. # [19:21] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: I'm pretty sure that's the defaut since I never explicitly addthat and havethe test stuff
  433. # [19:22] <khuey> that is the default
  434. # [19:23] <@tbsaunde> khuey: how do you pay attention to so many channels? :O
  435. # [19:25] <@davidb> he loves us
  436. # [19:25] <khuey> the real question is how do I do that and still manage to ever get any work done
  437. # [19:25] <@tbsaunde> khuey: true
  438. # [19:25] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@E4B902A.26ED71FF.34044A7F.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  439. # [19:25] <khuey> my hypothesis is that I'm really a robot
  440. # [19:25] <khuey> and just don't know it
  441. # [19:26] <@tbsaunde> heh
  442. # [19:31] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  443. # [19:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  444. # [19:35] <@MarcoZ> Interesting, if I click on the "Reply" link for any post, I get thrown into a textbox automatically. Only if I want to initiate my own update or do a general "post a reply" one it doesn't work.
  445. # [19:39] <khuey> +hub@mozilla.com
  446. # [19:39] <khuey> who is this?
  447. # [19:39] * khuey chuckles
  448. # [19:40] <@hub> khuey: that would be me
  449. # [19:40] <khuey> yes, I know
  450. # [19:40] <khuey> I was just amused by that in bug 708332
  451. # [19:40] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708332 is not accessible
  452. # [19:41] <@davidb> haha
  453. # [19:41] <@MarcoZ> OK gentlemen, will phase out for the evening. See you all tomorrow!
  454. # [19:41] <@hub> khuey: commented
  455. # [19:42] <@hub> MarcoZ: enjoy your evening
  456. # [19:42] <@MarcoZ> hub: Thanks for filing the bug! But as I wrote on Yammer, I won't bet on any way we can improve the situation. It's not Mozilla-made.
  457. # [19:42] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ditto
  458. # [19:42] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-14F312E2.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Tomorrow!)
  459. # [19:42] <khuey> is it time to give up and join yammer?
  460. # [19:42] * khuey has been resisting adding new communication channels
  461. # [19:42] <khuey> but it seems like I may have lost that fight
  462. # [19:45] <@hub> it is being pushed by people filing for email bankruptcy
  463. # [19:52] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  464. # [20:16] <firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested checkin from bolterbugz@gmail.c om for attachment 580109 on bug 455443.
  465. # [20:16] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=455443 nor, --, ---, hub, ASSI, cache the parent for the accessibilityAttributeValue(NSAccessibilityParentAttribute)
  466. # [20:17] <firebot> hub@mozilla.com cancelled checkin? for attachment 579793 on bug 455443.
  467. # [20:30] * Quits: jhk_ (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  468. # [20:31] * Joins: jhk_ (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  469. # [20:40] <firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested checkin from bolterbugz@gmail.c om for attachment 580121 on bug 703770.
  470. # [20:40] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703770 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Mac Accessibility Verifier errors
  471. # [20:41] <@davidb> oh
  472. # [20:42] <@davidb> ok give me a bit
  473. # [20:51] <@davidb> hub: do those compile and pass tests?
  474. # [20:52] * @davidb contemplates time to check
  475. # [20:56] * @davidb builds
  476. # [20:58] <@hub> davidb: let me push that to try server
  477. # [20:58] <@davidb> as you wish
  478. # [20:59] <@hub> I have it all setup to build with a11y on Mac :-)
  479. # [20:59] <@davidb> yeah, in the meantime i'll let this go locally. i might beat try server.
  480. # [20:59] <@hub> it is all a matter of hg qpop --move try-server ; hg push -f try
  481. # [20:59] <@hub> :-)
  482. # [20:59] <@hub> davidb: MacOS builds with these
  483. # [21:00] <@davidb> yeah you want to check the others?
  484. # [21:00] <@hub> davidb: I see no reason for the other platforms to fail
  485. # [21:00] * @davidb nods
  486. # [21:00] <@hub> pushing to try
  487. # [21:01] <@davidb> my MBA is warming me nicely
  488. # [21:02] <@hub> my Thinkpad does that too
  489. # [21:06] * @davidb slides over to windows screen
  490. # [21:29] <@tbsaunde> jhk_: when do you last update? your patch doesn't apply for me
  491. # [21:30] <jhk_> tbsaunde:few days before.
  492. # [21:30] <jhk_> not remember correct date
  493. # [21:31] <@davidb> hub: I'm on standby to push for the next hour
  494. # [21:32] <@davidb> let get you pushing your own stuff soon
  495. # [21:33] <@tbsaunde> jhk_: mind updating? surkov pushed a couple things that I think conflict
  496. # [21:34] <firebot> fmdevelopertim@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 708526 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
  497. # [21:34] <firebot> fmdevelopertim@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 708526 to DUPLICATE of bug 242829.
  498. # [21:34] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708526 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Can't Use Keyboard to Navigate to Link within Table Caption
  499. # [21:34] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=242829 min, --, mozilla1.9alpha8, matspal, NEW, hyperlinks and form controls in a <caption> can't be tabbed to
  500. # [21:35] <@hub> davidb: you mean getting a level 3?
  501. # [21:35] <@davidb> yeah
  502. # [21:35] <@hub> that would be awesome.
  503. # [21:35] <@hub> and I promise to only use it for awesome :-)
  504. # [21:35] <@davidb> heh
  505. # [21:36] <@davidb> well a bit more patience :)
  506. # [21:36] <@davidb> the trick is to keep hammering us with push requests until we break
  507. # [21:36] <@davidb> (kidding)
  508. # [21:36] <@hub> I have a user repository. maybe I should use that
  509. # [21:37] <@hub> I don't know how easy it is too push/pull in mercurial (vs git)
  510. # [21:37] <@davidb> we also have an accessibility branch
  511. # [21:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: but that's also a level 3 tree no?
  512. # [21:37] <@hub> do we?
  513. # [21:37] <@davidb> yep
  514. # [21:38] <@davidb> http://hg.mozilla.org/projects/accessibility/
  515. # [21:38] <@hub> btw, re: video caption, ralph has a git repository with his code: https://github.com/rillian/firefox/tree/webvtt
  516. # [21:38] <@davidb> sweet
  517. # [21:38] <@hub> but he said "it suck for now"
  518. # [21:39] <@davidb> :)
  519. # [21:39] <@hub> note that he hang out in #vancouver if you want to chat with him
  520. # [21:39] <@hub> (out to lunch atm)
  521. # [21:39] <@davidb> k
  522. # [21:41] <@tbsaunde> jhk_: hmm, I can't even gues what changeset you used
  523. # [21:42] <jhk_> tbsaunde : how many files do you have conflict with?
  524. # [21:44] <@tbsaunde> jhk_: in msaa/ nsAccessibleWrap.cpp nsDocAccessibleWrap.cpp and the role maps for atk and maa
  525. # [21:53] <jhk_> tbsaunde : if I will update now. I will lost whole changes in diff patch. any Idea how to go with this by preserving diff in remaining files without conflict?
  526. # [21:53] <jhk_> it was long patch.
  527. # [21:54] <@tbsaunde> jhk_: do you use mqueue?
  528. # [21:54] <jhk_> no
  529. # [21:54] <@tbsaunde> if so, hg qpop &&& hg update && hg qpush
  530. # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> if you use mercurial you probably should, let me find a link
  531. # [21:56] <@tbsaunde> jhk_: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mercurial_Queues
  532. # [21:57] <@tbsaunde> jhk_: then when you qpush it automerges everything it can, and leaves you lovely rejct files for the other hunks it can't apply
  533. # [21:57] <@hub> I definitely second that motion to use Mercurial Queue
  534. # [21:58] <@tbsaunde> you can do something similar with patch(1) but I've never tried that
  535. # [21:58] <@hub> even though the merge resolution isn't like git's
  536. # [21:58] <@tbsaunde> hub: its a far second to git
  537. # [21:58] <@tbsaunde> hub: I hear people really like kdiff3
  538. # [22:00] <jhk_> hg qpop && hg pull && hg update && hg qpush this is it?
  539. # [22:01] <@tbsaunde> lgtm
  540. # [22:01] <@davidb> yeah and then resolve merge conflicts if any
  541. # [22:01] <jhk_> davidb: yes there is
  542. # [22:02] <jhk_> there are
  543. # [22:02] * @davidb nods
  544. # [22:02] <@davidb> I always resolve by hand, painfully.
  545. # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> jhk_: thanks!
  546. # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd need to get my self either a gun or a lot of vodca after doing that a couple times
  547. # [22:04] <@davidb> what you need, tbsaunde, is a vodka gun.
  548. # [22:04] <@tbsaunde> I don't know what that would do but D:
  549. # [22:04] <@davidb> I'll leave that to the reader.
  550. # [22:10] <jhk_> tbsaunde: where it stores .rej files?
  551. # [22:11] <@tbsaunde> jhk_: if there is errors applying a patch to foo.cpp then you get foo.cpp.rej
  552. # [22:11] <@hub> the .rej is always next to the file it tries to patch
  553. # [22:18] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@moz-7F2FF3EB.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout)
  554. # [22:21] <@davidb> hub: do you want me to push?
  555. # [22:21] <@hub> davidb: if you can, to inbound would be the safest :-)
  556. # [22:21] <@davidb> yep
  557. # [22:21] <@hub> linux is runnig mochitest on try
  558. # [22:21] <@hub> linux64
  559. # [22:21] <@hub> the rest is still building
  560. # [22:22] <@davidb> any eta on linux tests?
  561. # [22:22] <@davidb> at least it built
  562. # [22:22] <@hub> nope
  563. # [22:22] <@davidb> ok
  564. # [22:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well, only osx building matters iirc
  565. # [22:24] <@davidb> in a sane world yes
  566. # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: if its not npotb on !osx khuey has done something very wrong ;)
  567. # [22:26] * @davidb pushes
  568. # [22:27] <firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com granted checkin for attachment 580109 on bug 455443.
  569. # [22:27] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=455443 nor, --, ---, hub, ASSI, cache the parent for the accessibilityAttributeValue(NSAccessibilityParentAttribute)
  570. # [22:27] <firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com granted checkin for attachment 580121 on bug 703770.
  571. # [22:27] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703770 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Mac Accessibility Verifier errors
  572. # [22:27] <@davidb> rub the rabbit foot
  573. # [22:28] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  574. # [22:28] <@hub> thanks !
  575. # [22:30] <firebot> atulagrwl@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 580167 on bug 682770.
  576. # [22:30] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682770 nor, --, ---, atulagrwl, NEW, nsIAccessibleSelectable::GetSelectionCount should be unsigned long
  577. # [22:30] <@davidb> hub: go team!
  578. # [22:30] <@davidb> tbsaunde: something is definitely funky with my update to using bit flags.
  579. # [22:31] * @davidb debugs
  580. # [22:31] <@tbsaunde> davidb: fun!
  581. # [22:31] <@hub> I love when I can hg qdelete things :-)
  582. # [22:33] * Quits: jhk_ (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  583. # [22:41] <@davidb> ok i'll have to vpn + rdp this later
  584. # [22:41] * @davidb packs up
  585. # [22:42] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@FAA90180.BEB908B0.79933D60.IP) (Ping timeout)
  586. # [22:42] <@davidb> eeejay: hi and bye
  587. # [22:43] <@eeejay> davidb, hi bye!
  588. # [22:43] <@davidb> :)
  589. # [22:44] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
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  592. # [22:44] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  593. # [22:45] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  594. # [22:52] <firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from the wind for attachment 580179 on bug 708106.
  595. # [22:52] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708106 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Remove consts for pre 10.4
  596. # [23:11] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
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  607. # Session Close: Fri Dec 09 00:00:00 2011

The end :)