/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2011-12-21 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Wed Dec 21 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:02] * bwinton is now known as bwinton_away
  4. # [00:07] * Parts: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  5. # [00:11] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  6. # [00:35] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Ping timeout)
  7. # [00:44] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  8. # [00:45] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-7B22FBCF.eng.wind.ca) (Ping timeout)
  9. # [00:47] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-671E60DE.eng.wind.ca)
  10. # [00:47] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  11. # [00:53] * Quits: Flyingmana_ (Mana@moz-A448D160.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Verlassend)
  12. # [01:14] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Input/output error)
  13. # [01:28] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@61E14E4F.5BCEC6DB.DA78B690.IP)
  14. # [01:28] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  15. # [01:29] * bwinton_away is now known as bwinton
  16. # [01:57] * bwinton is now known as bwinton_away
  17. # [02:22] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@61E14E4F.5BCEC6DB.DA78B690.IP) (Ping timeout)
  18. # [02:34] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-671E60DE.eng.wind.ca) (Ping timeout)
  19. # [02:36] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP) (Ping timeout)
  20. # [02:42] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP)
  21. # [02:49] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: nhirata)
  22. # [02:56] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  23. # [02:56] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  24. # [03:08] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@moz-7F2FF3EB.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  25. # [03:08] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  26. # [03:11] <firebot> hub@mozilla.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 582379 on bug 708144.
  27. # [03:11] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708144 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, After loading a new page, the WebArea is no longer accessible
  28. # [03:21] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-6F9F653A.dsl.bell.ca)
  29. # [03:21] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  30. # [03:24] <firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 583361 on bug 708144.
  31. # [03:24] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708144 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, After loading a new page, the WebArea is no longer accessible
  32. # [03:32] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-2A9C9106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  33. # [04:24] * Quits: hub_ (hub_@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP) (Client exited)
  34. # [04:25] * Quits: @hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP) (Ping timeout)
  35. # [04:34] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  36. # [04:38] <firebot> fmdevelopertim@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 712203 from Keyboard Navigation to Panorama.
  37. # [04:38] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712203 min, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, "Next tab group" keyboard shortcut doesn't work after "restore previous session"
  38. # [04:39] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  39. # [04:49] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  40. # [04:55] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP)
  41. # [05:09] * Joins: mdcurran_ (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au)
  42. # [05:10] * Quits: mdcurran (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout)
  43. # [05:19] * Joins: hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP)
  44. # [05:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  45. # [05:22] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Client exited)
  46. # [05:25] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  47. # [05:41] <@davidb> zzzz
  48. # [05:41] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-6F9F653A.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: davidb)
  49. # [05:43] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  50. # [05:47] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  51. # [05:53] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  52. # [06:06] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP) (Input/output error)
  53. # [06:07] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  54. # [06:15] * Quits: firebot (firebot@moz-67BF9FE6.carolina.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  55. # [06:15] * Joins: firebot (firebot@moz-67BF9FE6.carolina.res.rr.com)
  56. # [06:15] * ChanServ sets mode: +o firebot
  57. # [06:24] * Quits: @firebot (firebot@moz-67BF9FE6.carolina.res.rr.com) (Connection reset by peer)
  58. # [06:40] * Joins: firebot (firebot@moz-67BF9FE6.carolina.res.rr.com)
  59. # [06:40] * ChanServ sets mode: +o firebot
  60. # [06:48] * Quits: mdcurran_ (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout)
  61. # [09:09] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-2A9C9106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout)
  62. # [09:20] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-2A9C9106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  63. # [09:46] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-2A9C9106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  64. # [09:47] * Quits: @hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP) (Ping timeout)
  65. # [11:20] * Joins: silvia (Adium@moz-E773A748.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  66. # [11:20] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP) (Quit: victorporof)
  67. # [12:13] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP)
  68. # [12:47] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-D7C58E6B.dip.t-dialin.net)
  69. # [12:47] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MarcoZ
  70. # [13:01] <@firebot> mratcliffe@mozilla.com changed the Component on bug 607325 from Developer Tools to Disability Access.
  71. # [13:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607325 nor, P3, ---, nobody, NEW, Test browser_webconsole_bug_594477_clickable_output.js always fails for me
  72. # [13:12] * Quits: bwinton_away (bwinton@D7D3C4B5.88764A66.72A31D6.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  73. # [13:14] * Joins: bwinton_away (bwinton@D7D3C4B5.88764A66.72A31D6.IP)
  74. # [13:35] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  75. # [13:42] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@moz-7F2FF3EB.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout)
  76. # [13:56] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: for nvda preferences->voice settings -> use spelling functionality if supported being unchecked doesn't prevent me from hearing misspelled when reading something like aIface in edit feilds on bugzilla, does it for you? or am I using the wrong setting?
  77. # [13:57] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  78. # [14:09] <@tbsaunde> oh, nvm, its preferences -> document formating -> report spelling erors
  79. # [14:20] * Quits: silvia (Adium@moz-E773A748.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  80. # [14:48] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-7B22FBCF.eng.wind.ca)
  81. # [14:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  82. # [14:48] <@davidb> !seen surkov
  83. # [14:48] <@firebot> surkov was last seen 1 week, 5 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes and 18 seconds ago, saying ':)' in #accessibility.
  84. # [15:01] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-7B22FBCF.eng.wind.ca) (Ping timeout)
  85. # [15:03] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  86. # [15:04] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP) (Quit: victorporof)
  87. # [15:06] <@tbsaunde> 4heh
  88. # [15:12] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  89. # [15:22] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  90. # [15:22] * Joins: mdcurran (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au)
  91. # [15:23] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  92. # [15:24] * Joins: davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  93. # [15:24] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  94. # [15:28] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP)
  95. # [15:32] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  96. # [15:38] * bwinton_away is now known as bwinton
  97. # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
  98. # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> Hi tbsaunde, glad you figured it out! :)
  99. # [15:39] <@davidb> hey all
  100. # [15:41] <@davidb> what did tbsaunde figure out?
  101. # [15:41] <@davidb> the leak?
  102. # [15:43] <@MarcoZ> davidb: No, how to disable the announcement of spelling errors in NVDA.
  103. # [15:44] <@davidb> ah
  104. # [15:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Where is surkov? Do you know what's up with him?
  105. # [15:44] <@davidb> Away until further notice.
  106. # [15:45] * @davidb backchannels
  107. # [15:45] * @davidb wonders why nsHTMLCanvasFrame derives from nsSplittableFrame
  108. # [15:56] <@tbsaunde> davidb: that doesn't sound good :(
  109. # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: yeah, it was really anoying me when reviewing
  110. # [15:57] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it sounds more dramatic than it is.
  111. # [15:57] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: I can imagine!
  112. # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok
  113. # [15:58] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you set up on windows now?
  114. # [15:58] <@davidb> i guess obvious
  115. # [15:59] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I pulled surkov's update bullet from today's agenda.
  116. # [15:59] <@davidb> ok
  117. # [16:00] <@tbsaunde> davidb: same windows vm I had over the summer, I can build and use nightly on it
  118. # [16:00] <@davidb> ok
  119. # [16:00] <@tbsaunde> but I have no idea how to debug still
  120. # [16:00] <@davidb> guys we need to start promoting stuff to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Planning/Goals
  121. # [16:00] <@tbsaunde> or how to not go made when building
  122. # [16:00] <@tbsaunde> *mad
  123. # [16:04] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  124. # [16:07] <@davidb> MarcoZ: do we want to revisit the whitelist idea?
  125. # [16:07] * @davidb is looking over our performance tracker bugs
  126. # [16:07] <@tbsaunde> davidb: for dll's on windows?
  127. # [16:07] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah
  128. # [16:08] <@tbsaunde> davidb: do we have any real idea how big a deal it is?
  129. # [16:08] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it makes about 5 other bugs no longer issues.
  130. # [16:09] <@davidb> we can also have a command line arg, and a pref for forcing a11y on/off
  131. # [16:09] <@tbsaunde> davidb: really?
  132. # [16:09] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yep
  133. # [16:09] * @tbsaunde was thinking mroe how many users does it effect
  134. # [16:09] <@davidb> yes that's the worry
  135. # [16:10] * Joins: hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP)
  136. # [16:10] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  137. # [16:10] <@davidb> it would be an unpopular move
  138. # [16:10] <@davidb> and cause short term pain
  139. # [16:10] <@davidb> potentially
  140. # [16:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: what pain?
  141. # [16:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: also, what bugs?
  142. # [16:10] <@hub> hi
  143. # [16:10] <@davidb> hi
  144. # [16:11] <@davidb> tbsaunde: pain = users suddenly finding FF inaccessible
  145. # [16:11] <@tbsaunde> davidb: it also means we get less people looking for crash bugs
  146. # [16:11] <@davidb> true
  147. # [16:11] <@davidb> less coverage you mean?
  148. # [16:11] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, we should try to avoidthat happening
  149. # [16:12] <@davidb> it is a valid point
  150. # [16:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I also worry about apps that we don't even think about, like automated password entry software (finger print scanners) suddenly no longer working. Accessibility APIs may be what they rely on, and if we suddenly whitelist stuff, we shut out all others and may cause grief.
  151. # [16:12] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah
  152. # [16:12] <@davidb> MarcoZ: yes, hopefully short term grief.
  153. # [16:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And those are usually users who aren't even aware that they're using accessibility.
  154. # [16:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: We can never be certain if it's short term.
  155. # [16:13] <@davidb> I think the answer to my original question is probably "no".
  156. # [16:13] <@MarcoZ> Hi hub!
  157. # [16:13] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, I'd rally want to avoidthat route
  158. # [16:14] <@davidb> we could potentially land a whitelist and pref it off on merge to beta for a few merges, and collect all the reports.
  159. # [16:14] <@tbsaunde> davidb: sure, or we could justwait for the dll telemetry
  160. # [16:14] <@davidb> tbsaunde: that only tells us about known dlls
  161. # [16:15] <@davidb> it doesn't cover unknown injections or extensions
  162. # [16:15] <@tbsaunde> davidb: depends how you do it I think
  163. # [16:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde: well, we aren't pinging back the whole module list :)
  164. # [16:15] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'dthink we could a list of all the loaded ones when a11y was started
  165. # [16:16] <@davidb> that could be very interesting
  166. # [16:16] <@davidb> i smell a plan
  167. # [16:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: other than privacy is there a reason we can't?
  168. # [16:16] <@davidb> privacy is the only thing i can think of
  169. # [16:17] <@davidb> i suppose it can be a lot of data
  170. # [16:17] <@tbsaunde> I suppose there is also extensions turning us on, not sure if we can hook the xpconnect / xpcom goo
  171. # [16:17] <@davidb> right
  172. # [16:17] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  173. # [16:17] <@hub> MarcoZ: if you want to play my last try build show have a functional albeit still very slow build of Firefox with a11y
  174. # [16:17] <@davidb> we might be able to do something fancy
  175. # [16:17] <@hub> MarcoZ: here https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/try-builds/hfiguiere@mozilla.com-c357a6bcf2af/try-macosx64/firefox-12.0a1.en-US.mac.dmg
  176. # [16:18] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd gues no more than a 1 or 2 kb of text, but that's a wag
  177. # [16:18] <@davidb> hub: does profiling with instruments tell you anything useful?
  178. # [16:18] <@davidb> wags are good
  179. # [16:19] <@hub> davidb: not yet
  180. # [16:20] * @davidb looks at long goal list
  181. # [16:20] <@davidb> tbsaunde: let's bake that idea for a bit
  182. # [16:20] <@MarcoZ> hub: Thanks!
  183. # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> davidb: sure, afaik dll stuff is your project now anyway :-)
  184. # [16:22] <@tbsaunde> well, one of your projects
  185. # [16:22] <@davidb> yep
  186. # [16:22] <@davidb> i'm doing a restart after the compat work landed
  187. # [16:23] <@davidb> tbsaunde: for now i think it would be good to extend sMode and ping the data back
  188. # [16:23] <@davidb> just the bitflag
  189. # [16:23] <@davidb> g
  190. # [16:23] <@davidb> sorry typing is hard
  191. # [16:23] <@davidb> hub: i bet you need coffee
  192. # [16:24] <@hub> it is brewing
  193. # [16:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: sure
  194. # [16:24] <@tbsaunde> it would certainly improve what we know
  195. # [16:25] <@davidb> tbsaunde: would you like the unofficial goal of doing our about:memory hookup in Q1?
  196. # [16:25] <@davidb> i suspect with reviews and school there is risk
  197. # [16:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not really, for the reasons you just gave
  198. # [16:26] <@davidb> good
  199. # [16:26] <@davidb> we won't write that in
  200. # [16:26] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i might take a look at it (famous last words)
  201. # [16:27] <@tbsaunde> davidb: it shouldn't be that hard I wouldthink once you figure out a reasonable design
  202. # [16:27] <@davidb> yeah
  203. # [16:28] <@davidb> maybe we can work on it together
  204. # [16:30] <@MarcoZ> hub: This is good! It definitely shows improvements in both rendering stuff and also when loading subsequent pages, I now actually get content!
  205. # [16:30] * @davidb dances
  206. # [16:30] <@hub> MarcoZ: that's what the last patch fixes
  207. # [16:31] <@davidb> tbsaunde: want to join me in the video room before we officially start?
  208. # [16:31] <@davidb> do you have the number?
  209. # [16:31] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok, /me ->
  210. # [16:31] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah
  211. # [16:32] <@davidb> ok great
  212. # [16:32] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  213. # [16:33] * @davidb is there
  214. # [16:33] * @MarcoZ tries to dial in from the iPad today rather than the iPhone.
  215. # [16:34] <@hub> logging in
  216. # [16:35] <@davidb> ok the agenda!
  217. # [16:35] <@davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Meetings/2011-12-21#Agenda
  218. # [16:36] <@davidb> ok let's rock
  219. # [16:36] <@davidb> tbsaunde: not working?
  220. # [16:37] * @davidb also dials into conf 8600
  221. # [16:51] <@eeejay> i'm going to be off the grid this weekend
  222. # [16:55] <@davidb> eeejay: please add that goal here https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Planning/Goals
  223. # [17:03] <@davidb> all ^
  224. # [17:07] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Done.
  225. # [17:08] <@hub> do I need specific right to edit the wiki?
  226. # [17:09] <@davidb> hub: no
  227. # [17:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: on mac we just drop all events other than focus and value change on the floor atm
  228. # [17:10] <@davidb> psychedelic
  229. # [17:10] <@hub> davidb: I can't seem to see the edit button :-/
  230. # [17:10] <@tbsaunde> hub: are you loged in?
  231. # [17:10] <@hub> tbsaunde: yes it is.
  232. # [17:10] <@hub> tbsaunde: yes I am logged in
  233. # [17:11] <@hub> I just created the account
  234. # [17:11] <@davidb> you need to reload
  235. # [17:11] <@davidb> shift reload
  236. # [17:11] <@davidb> then it is at the top
  237. # [17:11] <@tbsaunde> davidb: at the risk of getting interested in a huge project what do you want Alex to work on?
  238. # [17:11] <@davidb> hahahaa
  239. # [17:11] <@davidb> Alex is a big part of deciding that
  240. # [17:12] <@davidb> basically the answer is most of: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/2012CorePicture
  241. # [17:12] <@tbsaunde> davidb: true, I gues I mean what did you think was important?
  242. # [17:12] <@tbsaunde> heh
  243. # [17:12] <@hub> oh wait, confirmation email arrived
  244. # [17:12] <@hub> that's probably why
  245. # [17:12] <@tbsaunde> not, much just about everything broken ;)
  246. # [17:13] <@davidb> well, I'd like to see the open AT alliance succeed as well as the IA2 evolution
  247. # [17:13] <@hub> it works now
  248. # [17:13] <@davidb> hub: :)
  249. # [17:14] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, I'm not familiar with the open at allience, but I'd probably agree
  250. # [17:15] <@davidb> it isn't totally public yet
  251. # [17:15] <@tbsaunde> ok
  252. # [17:22] <@davidb> hub: that's a tough goal, and a tough goal to measure :)
  253. # [17:22] <@davidb> i'm not against tough goals
  254. # [17:23] <@davidb> eeejay: are you going to make FF swear randomly?
  255. # [17:23] <@davidb> that might be cool
  256. # [17:24] <@eeejay> davidb, it is a Q1 goal, yes
  257. # [17:24] <@davidb> ok then
  258. # [17:25] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I think we need to say 3 (or 2) but not 2-3. Simply to make the goal crisp. What do you think?
  259. # [17:32] <@davidb> guys, I didn't mention during the meeting, but I am meeting with clones and gal today to see if Q1 is the right time for b2g a11y work
  260. # [17:32] <@davidb> darn autocorrect
  261. # [17:33] <@davidb> clones/cjones
  262. # [17:36] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Let's say 2, then, and if we get 3, we're lucky.
  263. # [17:36] <@davidb> fine with me
  264. # [17:37] <@davidb> i suspect you'll get lots of temporary contributors, tweeting the odd thing, but getting more consistent ones will be great
  265. # [17:38] <@davidb> we can strategize on retainment
  266. # [17:38] <@davidb> hmmm
  267. # [17:39] <@davidb> for some reason i just thought of open badges
  268. # [17:41] * Joins: jdm (jdm@moz-9AEDE212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  269. # [17:41] <jdm> does anyone know if mark pilgrim's Dive Into Accessibility (http://diveintoaccessibility.info/) is still a good resource for basic website accessibility?
  270. # [17:42] <jdm> I want to make sure that bugsahoy is as accessible as possible, but that requires me to do some learning
  271. # [17:42] <@tbsaunde> davidb: MarcoZ ^
  272. # [17:45] <@davidb> jdm: i will look but not immediately
  273. # [17:45] <@davidb> web aim has the best stuff
  274. # [17:45] <jdm> sure, no problem
  275. # [17:45] <jdm> davidb: link?
  276. # [17:45] <@davidb> http://webaim.org/
  277. # [17:45] <@davidb> and TPG maybe
  278. # [17:45] <jdm> danke
  279. # [17:45] <@davidb> we have some as well
  280. # [17:45] <@davidb> np
  281. # [17:45] <@davidb> jdm: thanks for caring!
  282. # [17:46] <@davidb> jdm: I suspect Marco would offer input and QA
  283. # [17:46] <jdm> that would be handy
  284. # [17:56] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  285. # [18:02] <@MarcoZ> jdm: Yeah, feel free to ping me if you have any questions as to how we process stuff for screen readers etc.
  286. # [18:09] <@davidb> jdm: is this the link you are worried about http://www.joshmatthews.net/bugsahoy/
  287. # [18:10] <jdm> davidb: mostly, yes. there will be a version on mozilla.org that is surrounded by the mozilla.org template as well
  288. # [18:10] <@davidb> the results area could be a live region
  289. # [18:11] <jdm> yeah, I figured I would need some more attributes to reflect the dynamic updates
  290. # [18:11] <@davidb> MarcoZ: what is appropriate for search results? aria-live="polite"?
  291. # [18:11] <@davidb> or maybe putting role=log is easiest
  292. # [18:12] <@davidb> jdm: luckily most of the hard work is done, you just need to mark the region. we'll pick up the mutations and turn them into goodness.
  293. # [18:12] <jdm> nice
  294. # [18:13] <jdm> davidb: take another look as well? I just pulled an update that adds dynamic tooltips to each element
  295. # [18:14] <@MarcoZ> davidb: role="log" should do just fine.
  296. # [18:16] <@davidb> ok i'll test until the lunch train leaves
  297. # [18:18] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  298. # [18:20] <@davidb> looks good. yeah jdm can you add role="log". So <div id="bugs content" role="log">
  299. # [18:20] <@davidb> then ping me
  300. # [18:20] <@davidb> and MarcoZ
  301. # [18:20] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  302. # [18:20] <jdm> davidb: sure thing. thanks a lot!
  303. # [18:20] <@davidb> dude
  304. # [18:20] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  305. # [18:22] * @davidb steps out
  306. # [18:38] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP) (Quit: victorporof)
  307. # [18:41] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  308. # [18:41] * Quits: jdm (jdm@moz-9AEDE212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Connection reset by peer)
  309. # [19:01] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  310. # [19:01] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  311. # [19:02] <@davidb> eeejay: does "dalvik" include the accessibility framework on android?
  312. # [19:03] <@tbsaunde> davidb: dalvic is the thing they munge java byte code into
  313. # [19:03] <@davidb> hmm
  314. # [19:04] <@tbsaunde> so, since most of the a11y stuff on android is probably not native code it does get compiled to dalvic
  315. # [19:04] <@tbsaunde> oh, and per sop I can't spell
  316. # [19:04] <@tbsaunde> davidb: what's up?
  317. # [19:05] <@davidb> i'm trying to figure out what removal of "dalvik" means for us… it is a b2g Q2 goal
  318. # [19:06] <@hub> davidb: that mean no android framework
  319. # [19:06] <@davidb> it isn't really news that we'll need to have our own tts layet
  320. # [19:06] <@davidb> layer
  321. # [19:06] <@hub> dalvik is to Android what JVM is to Java
  322. # [19:06] <@davidb> got it
  323. # [19:06] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so I think the question you want to be asking is does that include getting rid of the android a11y framework
  324. # [19:06] <@hub> davidb: in b2g, I'd rather rely on gtk
  325. # [19:06] <@davidb> ok i am recalling this all now
  326. # [19:07] <@hub> davidb: it is my understanding that b2g only use Android for the device support
  327. # [19:07] <@tbsaunde> hub: its not going to have gtk either afaik
  328. # [19:07] <@davidb> i think we'll be moving more into html space
  329. # [19:07] <@davidb> gecko is the platform
  330. # [19:07] <@hub> that mean reinventing the tts
  331. # [19:07] <@davidb> yes
  332. # [19:07] <@tbsaunde> were "android" here means I think the android "fork" of linux and maybe libc
  333. # [19:07] <@hub> tbsaunde: android support is in mainline kernel now
  334. # [19:08] <@davidb> tts engine should be in b2g/gonk layer
  335. # [19:08] <@davidb> i think
  336. # [19:08] <@davidb> i'll now more in 2 hours
  337. # [19:08] <@tbsaunde> hub: not really, we just need to either link against espeak / svox or mscripten them
  338. # [19:08] <@davidb> tbsaunde: we could
  339. # [19:08] <@davidb> emscripten
  340. # [19:09] <@tbsaunde> hub: all of it? /me hasn't been paying much attention, but thought there were some big chunks android wouldn't give up and linux wouldn't take
  341. # [19:09] <@davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G/Roadmap
  342. # [19:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: my first gues is linking the native libs will be easier
  343. # [19:12] <@davidb> tbsaunde: does b2g interest you?
  344. # [19:12] <@davidb> as a technical problem space
  345. # [19:13] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not sure
  346. # [19:13] <@davidb> anyways, school.
  347. # [19:13] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I don't think we havethat many problems to solve though, *1 write a screen reader in js, and 2 xpcom tts
  348. # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> true
  349. # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> productization in q2 there ambitious
  350. # [19:14] <@davidb> eeejay: is working on 1
  351. # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, sort of
  352. # [19:14] <@davidb> ambitious but serious
  353. # [19:14] <@davidb> right
  354. # [19:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde: the biggest potential problem is how we get the semantic data out of the UI
  355. # [19:15] <@tbsaunde> I'm not sure I'd want to use the pivit / virtual curses stuff he wants to if I were doing it ;)
  356. # [19:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what is the alternative?
  357. # [19:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: why? presumably the screen reader would just use nsIAccessibleFoo
  358. # [19:16] <@davidb> yes but nsIAccessibleFoo is potentially now dealing with canvas + js
  359. # [19:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: keep some global state yourself
  360. # [19:16] <@davidb> I need to find out what the data structures for the UI are, if not DOM.
  361. # [19:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: if there using canvas a lot then that gets interesting
  362. # [19:17] <@davidb> right
  363. # [19:17] <@davidb> it gets *hard*
  364. # [19:17] <@tbsaunde> sure, but why wouldn't you use the DOM
  365. # [19:17] * @davidb shrugs
  366. # [19:17] <@davidb> speed
  367. # [19:18] <@tbsaunde> really?
  368. # [19:18] <@davidb> ask web developers why they like canvsas.
  369. # [19:18] <@davidb> -s
  370. # [19:18] <@tbsaunde> heh
  371. # [19:18] <@tbsaunde> I can see it for things like games or animations
  372. # [19:19] <@tbsaunde> but I'd think a UI is much more widgets based than those are
  373. # [19:19] <@davidb> that statement should certainly be true
  374. # [19:21] <@tbsaunde> but I if we are actually dealing with canvas, then it just means b2g a11y depends on canvas a11y
  375. # [19:22] * Quits: @hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP) (Ping timeout)
  376. # [19:23] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-D7C58E6B.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: l8er)
  377. # [19:24] <@davidb> yes, quite possibly
  378. # [19:25] <@davidb> well, assuming you mean the w3c solution.
  379. # [19:25] <@davidb> it might not be exactly that solution.
  380. # [19:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I meant what ever solution we decide to implement
  381. # [19:26] <@davidb> ok then agreed
  382. # [19:31] <@davidb> i think for Q1 we'll want to have just enough input such that we don't horrible decisions for us are not made
  383. # [19:32] <@davidb> i suspect Q2 can be more meaty
  384. # [19:32] <@davidb> except pretend that was all grammatical
  385. # [19:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: sure, we might want to get tts work in q1 too, not really sure
  386. # [19:37] <@tbsaunde> but having some of that ready may be good
  387. # [19:37] <@davidb> yes
  388. # [19:40] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  389. # [19:40] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  390. # [19:40] * Joins: hub_ (hub_@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  391. # [19:41] <@davidb> Oh good, we have two hubs.
  392. # [19:41] * Quits: a-865 (fmcz@moz-A5D13CA.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [SeaMonkey 2.6/20111208004826])
  393. # [19:41] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so, we can get twice the patches
  394. # [19:41] <@davidb> wfm
  395. # [19:42] <@davidb> just what your review queue needs
  396. # [19:43] <@tbsaunde> heh
  397. # [19:43] <@tbsaunde> the windows patches are the worst :(
  398. # [19:44] <@tbsaunde> but each of them has a bit where I go is that what we really want
  399. # [19:45] <@hub> davidb: the other is the mac
  400. # [19:50] <@davidb> yeah, i'm either mac or android on irc
  401. # [19:52] <@hub> davidb: I mean hub_ is me on the Mac
  402. # [19:52] <@davidb> yep
  403. # [19:52] <hub_> like that
  404. # [19:52] <@davidb> roger
  405. # [19:52] <@davidb> davidb_ is usually android
  406. # [19:53] * Joins: davidb_ (davidb@31ABB91E.F7EBA23.C3C3A9D0.IP)
  407. # [19:53] <davidb_> ;)
  408. # [20:02] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-2C2B7D1F.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  409. # [20:03] <@hub> what happened to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=693343
  410. # [20:03] <@firebot> Bug 693343 maj, --, ---, trev.saunders, REOP, accessibility always disabled in GNOME 3 unless GNOME_ACCESSIBILITY is set
  411. # [20:03] <@hub> does that mean we'll need an aurora approval as well?
  412. # [20:07] <@tbsaunde> hub: some weird bug caused it to bunce
  413. # [20:07] <@tbsaunde> hub: it'll just make fx12 instead of fx11 if we can figure the bug out
  414. # [20:07] <@tbsaunde> we could ask for approaval, but I'm not sure it makes sense
  415. # [20:22] * Joins: silvia (Adium@moz-E773A748.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  416. # [20:25] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 582588 on bug 539699.
  417. # [20:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=539699 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, NEW, ITypeInfo nsAccessibleWrap member should be static
  418. # [20:36] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  419. # [20:37] <@davidb> i will summarize that meeting with cjones as awesome.
  420. # [20:37] * @davidb waves to silvia
  421. # [20:44] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: nhirata)
  422. # [20:45] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  423. # [20:45] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  424. # [20:48] * Quits: silvia (Adium@moz-E773A748.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  425. # [21:01] * bwinton is now known as bwinton_away
  426. # [21:01] * Quits: bwinton_away (bwinton@D7D3C4B5.88764A66.72A31D6.IP) (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
  427. # [21:03] * Joins: bwinton_away (bwinton@D7D3C4B5.88764A66.72A31D6.IP)
  428. # [21:03] * bwinton_away is now known as bwinton
  429. # [21:07] * Joins: silvia (Adium@moz-E773A748.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  430. # [21:11] * bwinton is now known as bwinton_away
  431. # [21:49] * Quits: silvia (Adium@moz-E773A748.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  432. # [21:52] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  433. # [21:54] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  434. # [22:01] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 619002 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  435. # [22:01] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 619002 to FIXED.
  436. # [22:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=619002 nor, --, mozilla7, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, When deleting text from edit fields the wrong text is reported through at-spi
  437. # [22:28] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  438. # [23:10] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  439. # [23:52] * Quits: bwinton_away (bwinton@D7D3C4B5.88764A66.72A31D6.IP) (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
  440. # [23:54] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  441. # Session Close: Thu Dec 22 00:00:00 2011

The end :)