/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2011-12-22 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 22 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [01:18] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Ping timeout)
  4. # [01:23] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: nhirata)
  5. # [01:25] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  6. # [01:33] * Joins: jdm (jdm@moz-9AEDE212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  7. # [01:43] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Input/output error)
  8. # [01:52] * Joins: a-865 (fmcz@moz-A5D13CA.cable.mindspring.com)
  9. # [02:14] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP)
  10. # [02:16] * Quits: hub_ (hub_@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP) (Client exited)
  11. # [02:21] * Quits: @hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP) (Ping timeout)
  12. # [02:41] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP) (Input/output error)
  13. # [03:01] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP)
  14. # [03:05] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP) (Input/output error)
  15. # [03:05] * Joins: hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net)
  16. # [03:05] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  17. # [03:05] * jdm is now known as jdm-away
  18. # [03:20] * Quits: jdm-away (jdm@moz-9AEDE212.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Connection reset by peer)
  19. # [03:40] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: nhirata)
  20. # [04:25] <@firebot> andrew.quartey@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 583707 on bug 539699.
  21. # [04:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=539699 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, NEW, ITypeInfo nsAccessibleWrap member should be static
  22. # [06:01] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-2C2B7D1F.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111216140209])
  23. # [06:03] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  24. # [06:10] <@hub> http://ooo-speak.blogspot.com/2011/12/nvda.html
  25. # [06:10] <@hub> I don't know what to say
  26. # [06:25] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-2A9C9106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  27. # [06:54] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-2C2B7D1F.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  28. # [07:21] * Joins: I_stephen (stephen@moz-55B334EE.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net)
  29. # [07:22] * Parts: I_stephen (stephen@moz-55B334EE.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net)
  30. # [07:41] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-2C2B7D1F.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111216140209])
  31. # [08:06] <@firebot> mardeg@nerdshack.com changed the Status on bug 654027 from RESOLVED to REOPENED.
  32. # [08:06] <@firebot> mardeg@nerdshack.com cleared the Resolution 'WORKSFORME' from bug 654027.
  33. # [08:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=654027 cri, --, ---, nobody, REOP, Crash [@ nsINode::GetOwnerDoc() ]
  34. # [09:31] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net) (Ping timeout)
  35. # [10:06] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  36. # [10:20] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP)
  37. # [11:15] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  38. # [11:16] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  39. # [11:47] * Joins: Flyingmana (Mana@moz-42862919.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  40. # [12:37] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  41. # [13:15] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  42. # [13:23] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  43. # [13:54] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@moz-7F2FF3EB.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  44. # [13:54] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  45. # [14:47] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP) (Client exited)
  46. # [14:47] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-D0909DEF.dip.t-dialin.net)
  47. # [14:47] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MarcoZ
  48. # [14:56] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP)
  49. # [15:10] * Quits: davidb_ (davidb@31ABB91E.F7EBA23.C3C3A9D0.IP) (Ping timeout)
  50. # [15:13] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 712923 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  51. # [15:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
  52. # [15:15] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 712924 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  53. # [15:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712924 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] li elements inside an ul element are announced as "list box"
  54. # [15:19] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 712927 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  55. # [15:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712927 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] VoiceOver often repeats the document title as if it were a groupbox/fieldset heading/legend
  56. # [15:25] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  57. # [15:30] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  58. # [15:39] * Joins: davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  59. # [15:39] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  60. # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
  61. # [15:58] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  62. # [15:59] * @MarcoZ needs to step out for a bit, but will check back later before going on holidays.
  63. # [16:00] * MarcoZ is now known as MarcoZ_afk
  64. # [16:13] <@davidb> MarcoZ_afk: darn was just going to ask you something
  65. # [16:14] <@davidb> MarcoZ_afk: I private messaged you a link to try out. It isn't a live web page yet.
  66. # [16:22] * Joins: hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP)
  67. # [16:22] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  68. # [16:30] * Quits: mdcurran (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout)
  69. # [16:34] * Joins: mdcurran (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au)
  70. # [16:34] <clown> davidb: if you have time for a riddle, what is this in terms of the a11y tree: <label for="shuffle" role="button" aria-pressed="false"> (btw, I cheated, and look with accerciser).
  71. # [16:36] <@davidb> clown: i'd have to look at the tree or at our code to answer
  72. # [16:37] <clown> davidb: you are confessing to not being an aria processor? ;-)
  73. # [16:37] <clown> what's your intuition?
  74. # [16:40] <clown> okay, accerciser tells me it's a push button. so not a label, but not a toggle either. My intuition said it should be a toggle given it has an aria-pressed attribute.
  75. # [16:43] <@davidb> did you see that in the wild?
  76. # [16:43] <@davidb> is there an element with id 'shuffle'?
  77. # [16:46] <clown> davidb: not precisely "the wild". and yes there is an element with id shuffle: <input id="shuffle" type="checkbox">
  78. # [16:46] <clown> it's a proposal for buttons for jQueryUI (not my proposal).
  79. # [16:46] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  80. # [16:47] <clown> btw, that input#shuffle also shows up in the a11y tree, as a checkbox (no surprise there) with the label coming from the above <label>.
  81. # [16:47] <@davidb> ok good
  82. # [16:48] <@davidb> clown: in case i don't get a chance to say it later, "Happy Holidays to you and your family!"
  83. # [16:48] <clown> so, FF is clever in that even though it recognizes the <label> as a button, it still uses it to correctly label the checkbox.
  84. # [16:48] <@davidb> FF is a cunning fox
  85. # [16:48] <clown> davidb: thanks! And a Merry Christmas/Happy New Year to you and yours!
  86. # [16:48] <@davidb> :)
  87. # [16:49] <clown> yes, FF is impressive, but why is it not properly representing the "button" as a toggle? Or is that an atk/atspi issue?
  88. # [16:50] <@davidb> hmmm
  89. # [16:50] <@davidb> could be
  90. # [16:50] * @tbsaunde checks list of atk roles
  91. # [16:50] <clown> davidb: just got confirmation from mgorse that atk and atspi have a toggle role.
  92. # [16:51] <clown> tbsaunde: ^
  93. # [16:51] <clown> they are ATK_ROLE_TOGGLE_BUTTON / ATSPI_ROLE_TOGGLE_BUTTON
  94. # [16:51] <@tbsaunde> clown: yeah, just that myself :0
  95. # [16:52] <@tbsaunde> *saw :)
  96. # [16:53] <@tbsaunde> clown: why wouldn't you expect it to be a push button?
  97. # [16:54] <clown> tbsaunde: because it has an aria-pressed attribute. that's how one tells the browser that the button is a toggle.
  98. # [16:56] * clown wishes aria had a toggle button role.
  99. # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> clown: ok, I've never investigated the various types of buttons but at first glance it's not clear to me the differences between them
  100. # [16:58] <clown> tbsaunde: a toggle is like the play button on a cd player. It has two state: pressed and released. When pressed, the cd plays. When not pressed, the cd pauses. Another example is a "Bold" tool bar button. When pressed, you get bolded text. When not pressed, you get plain text.
  101. # [16:58] <clown> a push button (like an OK button) just activates something — it doesn't' stay pressed.
  102. # [16:59] <@firebot> dao@mozilla.com requested review from enndeakin@gmail.com for attachment 583798 on bug 249735.
  103. # [16:59] <@firebot> dao@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 249735 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  104. # [16:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=249735 nor, P1, ---, dao, ASSI, F6 goes to the first focusable element instead of the address bar (does not focus on location bar)
  105. # [17:01] <@tbsaunde> clown: oh, ok thanks
  106. # [17:01] <clown> tbsaunde: wlcm.
  107. # [17:05] * Joins: jdm (jdm@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  108. # [17:06] <jdm> davidb: I fixed the popup to use role=tooltip instead of alert
  109. # [17:06] <@davidb> ok i'll try it!
  110. # [17:10] <@tbsaunde> clown: so, I just took a look at what we do and I'd think we should call your label a toggle button
  111. # [17:10] <@tbsaunde> and I'm not really sure why we don't
  112. # [17:10] <@davidb> jdm: can you put role="presentation" on the ui-tooltip-* elements (the ones with a canvas child)?
  113. # [17:14] <@tbsaunde> clown: why do the jquery people want to do this in the first place?
  114. # [17:14] <clown> tbsaunde: thanks. does this cover window version too? I haven't checked what happens with msaa/ia2 yet.
  115. # [17:14] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-2A9C9106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  116. # [17:14] <clown> tbsaunde: you'd have to ask them :-)
  117. # [17:14] <clown> although I can come up with a partial answer.
  118. # [17:15] <clown> it might be to maintain some form of two-stated-ness when dealing with a non-aria browser. In that case aria is ignored, and the thing devolves into a labelled checkbox.
  119. # [17:16] <@tbsaunde> clown: windows right?
  120. # [17:16] * clown notes that not all browsers are as good at aria as FF is.
  121. # [17:16] <clown> tbsaunde: not sure what you are asking re: windows right?
  122. # [17:16] <@tbsaunde> clown: if we call it a push button on linux I'd be 99.99% sure we don't call it a toggle button on windows
  123. # [17:17] <@tbsaunde> clown: you said does this cover window
  124. # [17:17] <clown> tbsaunde: right, now I get yeah, Yes, I wanted to know that if you fixed it, it would be fixed for both windows and linux.
  125. # [17:17] <clown> it sounds like it would.
  126. # [17:17] <@tbsaunde> yeah, really should be
  127. # [17:18] <@tbsaunde> but various horrible things have been known to happen that mean things break ;)
  128. # [17:18] <clown> no, really?
  129. # [17:20] <@tbsaunde> never with roles in particular, but yes
  130. # [17:21] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@3A53A763.F695A43D.79933D60.IP) (Quit: victorporof)
  131. # [17:23] <@tbsaunde> that reminds me, khuey can we get c preproccessored stuff into idl somehow? eis idl cpp'd or can you include headers?
  132. # [17:24] <khuey> uh
  133. # [17:25] <khuey> I'm afraid to ask why you want to do that
  134. # [17:25] <@tbsaunde> khuey: expandos
  135. # [17:25] * khuey doesn't know what those are
  136. # [17:25] <@tbsaunde> like what we do for atoms
  137. # [17:26] <khuey> you want to do that for things on the interface?
  138. # [17:26] <@tbsaunde> yeah, constants
  139. # [17:26] <khuey> do they need to be reflected into js?
  140. # [17:26] <@tbsaunde> yes
  141. # [17:26] <khuey> yeah we don't have that ability
  142. # [17:26] <@tbsaunde> :-(
  143. # [17:27] <@tbsaunde> how do we do it for event types?
  144. # [17:27] <@tbsaunde> do we just have multiple lists? and when you make a change you better remember all of the places to change?
  145. # [17:28] <khuey> uh
  146. # [17:28] <khuey> ask bz?
  147. # [17:30] <@tbsaunde> yeah, or just look ;)
  148. # [17:30] <khuey> that works too
  149. # [17:30] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  150. # [17:37] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@3E36101D.6BD22D89.79933D60.IP)
  151. # [17:37] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@3E36101D.6BD22D89.79933D60.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  152. # [17:37] * Joins: victorporo (victorporo@5FEE190.2E655143.79933D60.IP)
  153. # [17:38] * victorporo is now known as victorporof
  154. # [17:42] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  155. # [17:55] * jdm is now known as jdm-lunch
  156. # [17:56] * Joins: Flyingmana_ (Mana@moz-335AAFA4.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  157. # [17:57] * Quits: Flyingmana (Mana@moz-42862919.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout)
  158. # [18:00] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  159. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> clown: so, is your label thing a bug or not? I can read the specs and try to decide if you don't know
  160. # [18:34] * Quits: @hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP) (Ping timeout)
  161. # [18:38] <clown> tbsaunde: it's a bug. The aria spec says that to make a toggle button use a role of button and add an aria-pressed attribute. Without the aria-pressed attribute, it's just a plain button.
  162. # [18:38] <clown> do you need a reference?
  163. # [18:39] <clown> just in case you do, here it is: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/states_and_properties#aria-pressed
  164. # [18:40] <@tbsaunde> clown: ok, I take it that means you want me to file instead of you ;)
  165. # [18:41] <clown> tbsaunde: nah, I thought you had already filed it. If you want me to do it, I can.
  166. # [18:45] <@tbsaunde> clown: either way, doesn't matter to me :)
  167. # [18:45] <@tbsaunde> clown: firebot anounces when bugs get filed against us :-)
  168. # [18:45] <clown> let me give it a go.
  169. # [18:45] <@tbsaunde> ok, thx
  170. # [18:48] <clown> tbsaunde: in the check for an existing similar bug, I found https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=390284. Apparently it has already been fixed. Should I just reopen?
  171. # [18:48] <@firebot> Bug 390284 nor, --, ---, aaronlev, RESO FIXED, Support roles that are dependent on an ARIA role + an ARIA property
  172. # [18:49] <@tbsaunde> clown: no, file a new one, though maybe blocking that one makes sense
  173. # [18:50] <clown> okay, will do.
  174. # [18:53] * Joins: hub_ (hub_@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  175. # [18:58] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  176. # [18:58] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  177. # [19:00] * jdm-lunch is now known as jdm
  178. # [19:00] <@hub> wow, MarcoZ_afk is making sure I have a lot of work :-D
  179. # [19:02] <clown> tbsaunde: almost there (this version of bugzilla is very nice): what version of FF should I specify? "8 branch", since that's what I tested against?
  180. # [19:05] <clown> actually, tbsaunde, the previous bug I mentioned above was against "core", not specifically FF — should I do the same for the new bug?
  181. # [19:09] <@tbsaunde> clown: yeah, core/disability access api's
  182. # [19:10] <@tbsaunde> clown: you could they I really suspect it applies to all versions we care about
  183. # [19:10] <clown> tbsaunde: gotcha. com in' up...
  184. # [19:12] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 713010 filed by clown@alum.mit.edu.
  185. # [19:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713010 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Element marked with ARIA role='button' and aria-pressed attribute not exposed as a toggle button
  186. # [19:12] <clown> and there it is, tbsaunde ^
  187. # [19:12] <@tbsaunde> clown: yeah, thanks!
  188. # [19:13] <clown> you are most welcome.
  189. # [19:13] <clown> now, I gotta run — the university is closing for the holidays. Have a Merry Christmas!
  190. # [19:13] <@tbsaunde> you too :0
  191. # [19:15] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  192. # [19:26] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 583707 on bug 539699.
  193. # [19:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=539699 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, NEW, ITypeInfo nsAccessibleWrap member should be static
  194. # [19:35] * MarcoZ_afk is now known as MarcoZ
  195. # [19:39] <@firebot> matti@mversen.de changed the Component on bug 712971 from General to Disability Access APIs.
  196. # [19:39] <@firebot> matti@mversen.de changed the Product on bug 712971 from Firefox to Core.
  197. # [19:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712971 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Crash when visiting http://www.mongoliad.com/welcome
  198. # [19:46] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@5FEE190.2E655143.79933D60.IP) (Quit: victorporof)
  199. # [19:47] <@MarcoZ> jdm: davidb: I just took a look, and think putting all the search results themselves into a live region is overkill. With a lot of bugs, you get a lot of info to digest, and you want to look in more detail anyway. Instead, I'd only mark up the interesting part about the results and the result number up as a live region. If the user hears that there are more than 0 results, they can then get...
  200. # [19:47] <@MarcoZ> ...down into the list of bugs and inspect them.
  201. # [19:47] <@davidb> good idea!
  202. # [19:47] <jdm> ooh, that's interesting
  203. # [19:48] <@davidb> MarcoZ: what about when you tab onto bugs? The tooltips could be alerts but they would halt speech. How would an NVDA user normally go back to reading the element that caused the tooltip?
  204. # [19:48] <@hub> can I get bug 708144 reviewed / checked in?
  205. # [19:49] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ^
  206. # [19:49] <@hub> btw I pasted that last night. Not sure you read it http://ooo-speak.blogspot.com/2011/12/nvda.html
  207. # [19:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708144 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, After loading a new page, the WebArea is no longer accessible
  208. # [19:49] <@tbsaunde> hub: yeah, I'll do it soon, need to pay for college first
  209. # [19:49] <@davidb> ah Louis
  210. # [19:50] <@davidb> tbsaunde: your patch reviews can pay for college :)
  211. # [19:50] <@hub> davidb: I was wondering if it was me that didn't understand what he wrote, or him that didn't
  212. # [19:51] <@davidb> hub: he needs to do some research, any research at all would suffice.
  213. # [19:51] <@hub> davidb: that was my first impression then
  214. # [19:51] * @davidb nods
  215. # [19:52] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yes, but at some point large sacks of cash need to be given to cmu :\
  216. # [19:52] * Quits: @firebot (firebot@moz-67BF9FE6.carolina.res.rr.com) (Client exited)
  217. # [19:52] <@davidb> bah humbug
  218. # [19:52] <@davidb> don't they take gold bullion?
  219. # [19:52] <@hub> tbsaunde: they don't take credit cards ? ;-)
  220. # [19:53] <@davidb> or that, yes.
  221. # [19:53] <@tbsaunde> they appear to take bank accounts, but don't alow you to add new accounts to pay from
  222. # [19:56] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  223. # [19:56] <@MarcoZ> davidb: These tooltips would be what I'd expect from the AccDescription to contain. So, since the information is available, create hidden divs or whatever, and link to their ID via aria-describedby on the link itself. That way, the info can be read with NVDA-key+Tab as many times as the user needs to hear them, and on focus, it is spoken after the initial link info, too.
  224. # [19:56] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  225. # [19:57] <@davidb> ok that's happening
  226. # [19:57] <@davidb> but not quite like that
  227. # [19:57] <@MarcoZ> No it is not.
  228. # [19:57] <@davidb> i mean, aria-describedby is there
  229. # [19:57] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  230. # [19:57] <@MarcoZ> davidb: The accDescription doesn't contain that info.
  231. # [19:57] <@hub> but yesterday I filed bug 712765 that make a11y build with less warning. But the bug isn't in our component.... even though it drags some changes too
  232. # [19:57] <@davidb> MarcoZ: i think there might be a timing issue
  233. # [19:58] <@davidb> i think the aria-describedby is added on focus
  234. # [19:58] <@davidb> jdm: is this correct ^ ?
  235. # [19:58] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes if it is assigned dynamically on focus, it is too late for NVDA to pick it up.
  236. # [19:58] <@davidb> ok jdm go to plan A :)
  237. # [19:58] <@davidb> prepare all tooltips
  238. # [19:58] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  239. # [19:58] <@davidb> thanks MarcoZ
  240. # [19:58] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You're welcome, and this is a cool tool!
  241. # [19:59] <@davidb> :)
  242. # [19:59] <@davidb> blame jdm
  243. # [19:59] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Anything else? Or anyone? Hub, tbsaunde? If not, I'd go off for the holidays.
  244. # [19:59] <jdm> thanks MarcoZ!
  245. # [20:00] <@hub> MarcoZ: enjoy your holidays
  246. # [20:00] <@hub> MarcoZ: you gave me enough to work on already :-D
  247. # [20:00] <@MarcoZ> Hub: Thought so! These were things I found while initially testing. :)
  248. # [20:00] <@MarcoZ> And thanks!
  249. # [20:01] <@davidb> MarcoZ: enjoy!
  250. # [20:03] <@tbsaunde> hub: what about it? I assume this is the over loaded virtual thing in xul container controll thingy?
  251. # [20:03] * @tbsaunde doesn't remember details
  252. # [20:03] <@hub> tbsaunde: nothing special. I just don't know who to nudge on the other side
  253. # [20:05] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-D0909DEF.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Happy holidays! See you on jan 2!)
  254. # [20:42] <@tbsaunde> hub: as for landing that I suggest you look at the topic of #devlopers
  255. # [20:45] <jdm> davidb: if I make the results header the bit with the role, what would the throbber image with an alt tag of "fetching results", followed by a modified results count sound like?
  256. # [20:45] <@davidb> let's find out
  257. # [20:45] <jdm> (that is one of the strangest sentences I have ever typed)
  258. # [20:45] <@davidb> welcome to a11y
  259. # [20:47] <@davidb> jdm: a11y is a lot like CSS, you do what you think makes sense, then you test it and start over.
  260. # [20:47] <jdm> heh
  261. # [20:52] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  262. # [20:53] <@davidb> jdm: let me know when i can try it out
  263. # [20:53] <jdm> davidb: it's ready
  264. # [20:53] <@davidb> well then
  265. # [20:54] <@davidb> it just says 12
  266. # [20:54] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  267. # [20:55] <@eeejay> -> lunch
  268. # [21:02] <@davidb> hi jhk
  269. # [21:07] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@moz-7F2FF3EB.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout)
  270. # [21:14] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I think its pretty late where he is :0
  271. # [21:23] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@moz-7F2FF3EB.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  272. # [21:23] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  273. # [21:24] <@davidb> indeed!@
  274. # [21:27] * Joins: aaronlev (aaronlev@moz-CDA191A6.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com)
  275. # [21:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +o aaronlev
  276. # [21:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I was guessing it was just a machine disconnecting then reconnecting because of some sort of bad connection
  277. # [21:30] <@davidb> tbsaunde: we connected backchannel
  278. # [21:30] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oic, cool
  279. # [21:36] <@aaronlev> eww ...
  280. # [21:36] <@davidb> haha
  281. # [21:37] <@aaronlev> sleep, sleep, the musical fruit
  282. # [21:37] <@davidb> ?
  283. # [21:37] <@aaronlev> don't expect sanity from me
  284. # [21:38] <@davidb> aaronlev: oi, can you add a group to your profile? (accessibility of course)
  285. # [21:46] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  286. # [21:53] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  287. # [21:57] <@eeejay> davidb, maybe https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/People should do some fancy template thing with mozillians.org, or at leat link to it
  288. # [21:57] <@davidb> it would be great
  289. # [22:09] <@davidb> eeejay: i added a link
  290. # [22:09] <@eeejay> cool
  291. # [22:10] * @eeejay has android ff speaking via talkback
  292. # [22:10] <@eeejay> and it feels very snappy
  293. # [22:10] <@eeejay> this is pre-bloat of course
  294. # [22:13] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: pre-bloat?
  295. # [22:13] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, i'm kidding. well, half. now I need to make this actually useful
  296. # [22:14] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: oh, that boat :)
  297. # [22:14] <@eeejay> it actually feels more responsive than native widgets, but it might be my imagination
  298. # [22:15] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: well, that isn't always hard ;)
  299. # [22:24] <jdm> there's no public API for mozillans.org yet, so I can't imagine that any fancy templating is possible at this point
  300. # [22:26] <@eeejay> hum
  301. # [22:36] * Joins: silvia (Adium@moz-E773A748.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  302. # [22:37] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  303. # [22:39] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  304. # [22:57] <@davidb> eeejay: what is the next step?
  305. # [22:58] <@eeejay> davidb, building talkback and creating a scheme for it to say sensible stuff
  306. # [22:58] <@davidb> eeejay: is this something that would be upstreamed?
  307. # [22:58] <@eeejay> davidb, to talkback? yeah
  308. # [22:59] <@davidb> ok
  309. # [22:59] <@davidb> eeejay: in terms of traversal, what are next steps?
  310. # [23:00] <@eeejay> davidb, (review+fix)*infinity
  311. # [23:00] <@davidb> ok!
  312. # [23:00] <@davidb> (review+fix)*infinity + beyond!
  313. # [23:01] <@eeejay> and beyond, yes
  314. # [23:01] <@eeejay> i guess when alex comes back, we should also start work on the text iface
  315. # [23:02] <@eeejay> davidb, also, i think it is worth perfecting traversal+talkback via an extension for now, and when it is solid, propose it for inclusion in browser.js
  316. # [23:02] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@3E36101D.6BD22D89.79933D60.IP)
  317. # [23:14] * jdm is now known as jdm-party-woo
  318. # [23:20] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Ping timeout)
  319. # [23:39] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: nhirata)
  320. # [23:47] * Quits: @aaronlev (aaronlev@moz-CDA191A6.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com) (Quit: aaronlev)
  321. # Session Close: Fri Dec 23 00:00:00 2011

The end :)