/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-01-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jan 10 00:00:02 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  46. # [08:10] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
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  84. # [15:26] <askalski> hi, is it normal, that there has been no update in mozilla cental for a week?
  85. # [15:26] <askalski> is it like all the patches are applied in some kind of longer cycle I don'y know about
  86. # [15:26] <askalski> ?
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  89. # [15:38] <@tbsaunde> epic comment is epic
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  93. # [15:52] <@tbsaunde> askalski: I'm about 100% sure stuff has landed on m-c every day this past week
  94. # [15:53] <@tbsaunde> askalski: if pull is say there's nothing new that's really odd
  95. # [16:05] <askalski> tbsaunde, : I just assumed that "update" is the same as in SVN, "hg pull" brings some news, thanks
  96. # [16:05] <askalski> tbsaunde: I really should catch up with hg :)
  97. # [16:07] <@tbsaunde> askalski: or git unless you hate yourself ;)
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  99. # [16:14] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
  100. # [16:16] <askalski> hi1
  101. # [16:21] <@davidb> hi hi hi
  102. # [16:22] <@MarcoZ> davidb: tbsaunde: askalski: Anything special you want on the agenda for tomorrow's meeting?
  103. # [16:23] <@davidb> perhaps chrome tests
  104. # [16:23] <@davidb> that's more round-table-ish
  105. # [16:25] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah I was going to want to talk to you about that anyway, since you asked me directly.
  106. # [16:25] <@MarcoZ> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Meetings/2012-01-11
  107. # [16:25] <@MarcoZ> is the current version of the agenda.
  108. # [16:26] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I'm getting confused about the test harnesses we have. I thought we were doing browser chrome tests now. But that's 4 years ago that we created the harness, so I'm unsure about which of our various chrome or browser or whatever harnesses this is based on.
  109. # [16:27] <@davidb> oh I mean full browser tests, not just the lightweight chrome harness we have now
  110. # [16:27] <@davidb> so we'd be running firefox.
  111. # [16:27] <@davidb> I'm not sure of the lingo.
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  120. # [16:40] <@davidb> hi aaronlev
  121. # [16:40] <@davidb> hi hub
  122. # [16:40] <@davidb> all
  123. # [16:40] <@aaronlev> hi
  124. # [16:40] <@davidb> hey jhk
  125. # [16:40] <@hub> hi
  126. # [16:40] <@davidb> aaronlev: how's the google hacking going?
  127. # [16:40] <@tbsaunde> hmm, so if we kill nsIAccessNodethen what do we static cast this to in ISimpleDOMNode::get_localInterface()
  128. # [16:40] <jhk> devidb : Hi
  129. # [16:41] <@tbsaunde> hi
  130. # [16:41] <@aaronlev> it'll go well when i get focused
  131. # [16:41] <@davidb> aaronlev: ok, I won't ping you :)
  132. # [16:42] <@tbsaunde> is aaronlev at google now?
  133. # [16:42] <@aaronlev> i'm freelancing
  134. # [16:42] <@aaronlev> working on webkit at the moment
  135. # [16:42] <@aaronlev> davidb :) true true
  136. # [16:42] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  137. # [16:43] <@davidb> tbsaunde: he's doing some work for them yeah
  138. # [16:44] <@MarcoZ> Hi aaronlev, hub!
  139. # [16:44] <@aaronlev> hi MarcoZ
  140. # [16:44] <@tbsaunde> ok, interesting
  141. # [16:46] <@davidb> it would be fantastic if this led to closer a11y behaviour across two decent browsers
  142. # [16:46] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  143. # [16:49] <@MarcoZ> two or maybe even three, if the Webkit work also flows back to Safari.
  144. # [16:52] <@davidb> tbsaunde: before I change it to an early bail (bug 716589), are you sure that's what you prefer? The method is rather short and we'll end up with two return nsnull statements.
  145. # [16:53] <@aaronlev> MarcoZ: most of the iaccessible2 work is really in chromium, and i'm not sure if that will really change
  146. # [16:53] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I think so
  147. # [16:53] <@davidb> hokeydokey
  148. # [16:53] <@tbsaunde> davidb: its kind of silly I gues, but I really hate those nested ifs five levels deep
  149. # [16:54] <@davidb> this one is two i think
  150. # [16:54] <@davidb> oh right
  151. # [16:54] <@davidb> 4
  152. # [16:54] <@davidb> 3
  153. # [16:54] <@davidb> even
  154. # [16:54] <@davidb> i mean odd ;)
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  156. # [16:55] <@davidb> tbsaunde: if I add curly braces will that haunt you at night?
  157. # [16:55] * @davidb doesn't add them
  158. # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> why would you?
  159. # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> then you'd have
  160. # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> if (!foo) {
  161. # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> return nsnull;
  162. # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> }
  163. # [16:56] <@tbsaunde>
  164. # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> nsIBaz* baz = blah;
  165. # [16:56] <@MarcoZ> and a review nit from tbsaunde. :)
  166. # [16:56] <@MarcoZ> aaronlev: Ah I see!
  167. # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> and that's really silly
  168. # [16:57] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: huh?
  169. # [16:58] <@davidb> compiler warning: too many curly braces are silly!
  170. # [16:58] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Curly braces around single line blocks. ;)
  171. # [16:58] <@MarcoZ> Sheesh, I really don't see how these tests work, in content/ for example. Some of them are in "unit" folders which look very different from our chrome tests.
  172. # [16:59] <@MarcoZ> And I don't see how we can make our tests work in that environment.
  173. # [16:59] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it is very subjective. if you always add curly braces your mind becomes trained to rely on them. it really requires less thought.
  174. # [16:59] <@davidb> but it isn't a battle I would fight
  175. # [17:00] <@tbsaunde> ok, I would have thought Alex already trained you out of that ;)
  176. # [17:01] <@davidb> lol, i did too much C++ in my formative years
  177. # [17:01] <@davidb> i tried to train Alex into it.
  178. # [17:01] <@davidb> that went well.
  179. # [17:01] <@tbsaunde> heh
  180. # [17:04] * @davidb warms his hands over his compiler
  181. # [17:04] <@davidb> hi hhillen
  182. # [17:04] <hhillen> hi davidb
  183. # [17:05] <@davidb> MarcoZ: i created one of those tests before.
  184. # [17:05] <@davidb> best to chat with dao or someone
  185. # [17:07] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  186. # [17:07] <@davidb> MarcoZ: if we make it part of browser tests we'll want to make sure ours come at the end, since they invoke a11y
  187. # [17:07] <@davidb> or
  188. # [17:07] <@davidb> we could run the whole suite again with a11y on, and add ours
  189. # [17:08] <@davidb> i had a discussion about this on a bug
  190. # [17:08] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
  191. # [17:08] <@MarcoZ> davidb|mtg: That's why we kept them separate and created our own harness for them.
  192. # [17:09] <@davidb|mtg> maybe our harness should be FF
  193. # [17:09] <@MarcoZ> Maybe.
  194. # [17:09] <@MarcoZ> I don't know how much change that would require to all our existing tests, though.
  195. # [17:11] <@davidb|mtg> MarcoZ: who helped create our harness, was it clint?
  196. # [17:13] <@hub> C++ should have mandatory curly braces
  197. # [17:17] <@tbsaunde> hub: false :p
  198. # [17:17] <@MarcoZ> I agree with hub.
  199. # [17:17] <@MarcoZ> davidb|mtg: Robcee did help with that. Surkov did the impl, Robcee did the review.
  200. # [17:18] <@davidb|mtg> really!?
  201. # [17:18] * davidb|mtg is now known as davidb
  202. # [17:18] <@davidb> he's here in toronto
  203. # [17:18] <@davidb> this week
  204. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes, when i started, robcee was still working in QA doing test development.
  205. # [17:19] <@davidb> ok
  206. # [17:19] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I believe one of the reasons was that, for access to the accessibility APIs, we need elevated privileges.
  207. # [17:19] <@davidb> yes
  208. # [17:19] <@MarcoZ> davidb: That's why we didn't do regular browser tests because these can't access nsIAccessible.
  209. # [17:19] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I smell something like a Q1/Q2 goal.
  210. # [17:19] <@MarcoZ> davidb: If it is technically possible to do it....
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  212. # [17:20] <@davidb> it is software
  213. # [17:22] <@tbsaunde> I thought the point of at least one of mochitest-browser-chrome or mochitest-chrome was that it ran js as chrome code?
  214. # [17:23] <@davidb> probably
  215. # [17:24] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Right. But for some tests, we need a "real" browser environment, and are not supposed to do it via xul:tabbrowser any more.
  216. # [17:25] <@MarcoZ> tbsauSee bug 715847 for the reason why we're discussing this.
  217. # [17:26] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: See bug 715847 why we're discussing this.
  218. # [17:29] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: yeah, I saw that before, I knew that part
  219. # [17:31] * @tbsaunde tends to take the atitude that people who want to change API's should fix all existing users in the tree
  220. # [17:31] <@tbsaunde> atleast if they want to get rid of the old one
  221. # [17:31] <@davidb> that is a fair position.
  222. # [17:32] <@davidb> In this case, there is no promise to users.
  223. # [17:32] <@tbsaunde> oh?
  224. # [17:32] <@davidb> yeah tabbrowser doesn't come with a warranty, sadly.
  225. # [17:33] <@davidb> we've had to do tacky things to get it to work in the past
  226. # [17:33] <@davidb> hacky
  227. # [17:33] <@tbsaunde> interesting, I certainly wasn't around when the tests where written assuming its behavior
  228. # [17:33] <@davidb> i came just after
  229. # [17:33] <@davidb> but in my time it has seen fragility.
  230. # [17:33] <@davidb> the cost has been non zero.
  231. # [17:34] <@tbsaunde> yeah
  232. # [17:34] <@davidb> if we can test a fuller browser i think that is a win
  233. # [17:35] <@tbsaunde> it doesn't seem like a really hard problem though, either we stick tests on the end of mochitest-browser-chrome or we use that setup in a seperate job to run our own tests
  234. # [17:35] <@davidb> ye;
  235. # [17:35] <@davidb> yep
  236. # [17:36] <@tbsaunde> it'll take work of course
  237. # [17:36] <@davidb> i had one running on the end of browser-chrome tests locally
  238. # [17:36] <@davidb> i called the test zzz-foo*
  239. # [17:37] <@davidb> so it showed up at the end
  240. # [17:37] <@davidb> that was 1000 years ago though
  241. # [17:37] <@davidb> i'll go bug spelunking later - hopefully i attached a patch somewhere
  242. # [17:40] <@tbsaunde> doesn't the list of directories / order of tests in Makefiles matter?
  243. # [17:40] * @tbsaunde recognizes neither of us is the one to ask
  244. # [17:41] <@davidb> yeah, not ready to go too active on this yet
  245. # [17:45] <@tbsaunde> davidb: wantto review a patch for bug 672507? I dropped the part Alex wasn't sure about
  246. # [17:45] <khuey> the order of the directories matters
  247. # [17:46] <khuey> the order of tests does not
  248. # [17:47] <@davidb> khuey: thanks
  249. # [17:47] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i want to, but not sure i have time to give it a proper review. go ahead and request in case i do.
  250. # [17:48] <@davidb> tbsaunde: unless you want me to review just a small part.
  251. # [17:55] <@tbsaunde> davidb: other than maybe getting Marco to review the trivial test changes I'm not sure who can be reasonably asked to do it :/
  252. # [17:55] <@davidb> go ahead - i'll try
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  267. # [19:09] <@hub> tbsaunde: re bug 716935, accessibility isn't enabled by default on Mac, still
  268. # [19:09] <@hub> tbsaunde: that's part of my goals.
  269. # [19:09] <@davidb> hub: does the suite pass for you locally? i think the caret tests fail for me.
  270. # [19:09] <@hub> davidb: I don't run it
  271. # [19:09] <@tbsaunde> hub: yes, I know that to be the state for m-c, but we have in the past had the branch have a different config
  272. # [19:10] <@hub> davidb: I don't know how to run them
  273. # [19:10] <@davidb> i'm talking about make -C objdir/ mochitest-a11y
  274. # [19:10] <@davidb> it would be good to fix 'em
  275. # [19:10] <@davidb> even ifdef them out for MAC as a starting point
  276. # [19:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I re landed your disable tests, stuff was failing on debug before I did
  277. # [19:10] <@hub> let's try
  278. # [19:10] <@davidb> tbsaunde: oh good. when?
  279. # [19:10] <@davidb> hub: you can't touch your keyboard/mouse while they run
  280. # [19:11] <@davidb> or at least, no promises, if you do.
  281. # [19:11] <@tbsaunde> davidb: doesn't mac have xvfb?
  282. # [19:11] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i've not used it
  283. # [19:11] <@tbsaunde> davidb: one over the weekend, then one this morning when I realized that half didn't apply
  284. # [19:11] <@hub> davidb: so I can't IRC
  285. # [19:11] <@hub> and I can't say yes to the various alerts popping
  286. # [19:11] <@hub> :-(
  287. # [19:12] <@davidb> i believe this is so
  288. # [19:12] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ok thanks
  289. # [19:12] <@davidb> tbsaunde: where did you land them?
  290. # [19:12] <@tbsaunde> davidb: accessibility, which I'm thinking I'll merge to m-c today
  291. # [19:12] <@davidb> oh ok
  292. # [19:13] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i'm going to push my crash fix to inbound
  293. # [19:13] <@tbsaunde> go ahead
  294. # [19:13] <@hub> they don't pass
  295. # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> want to fix some of our random oranges now? ;)
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  301. # [19:45] <@eeejay> davidb, hub, sorry!
  302. # [19:45] <@davidb> heheh
  303. # [19:56] <@hub> eeejay: it is free now
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  307. # [21:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: it ==?
  308. # [21:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: the a11y vidyo room
  309. # [21:34] <@davidb> we've been using it for some small quick meetings
  310. # [21:35] <@tbsaunde> oic
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  315. # [22:06] <@davidb> 7 meetings down, 1 more to go! (but that's at my 9pm)
  316. # [22:06] <@davidb> oh 8.
  317. # [22:08] * @davidb beings patch review
  318. # [22:08] <@hub> davidb: ouch
  319. # [22:09] <@davidb> it is a price worth paying
  320. # [22:10] <@davidb> tbsaunde: has that patch addressed surkov's comments thus far?
  321. # [22:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I can give you more stuff to review if you want ;)
  322. # [22:10] <@davidb> bring it
  323. # [22:11] <@tbsaunde> davidb: iirc his main issue was that he didn't want to move non xpcom metods off nsAccessNode in that bug and I don't move any of them
  324. # [22:11] <@davidb> ok
  325. # [22:12] <@tbsaunde> but now that the interfaces are mreged I think its become pretty clear nsAccessNode should go
  326. # [22:12] * @davidb nods
  327. # [22:13] <@davidb> doesn't ISimpleDOM require it?
  328. # [22:13] <@davidb> (which should also go)
  329. # [22:15] <@tbsaunde> my proposal is to make ISimpleDOMNode a tearoff thing in the case the nsIContent* its for has an accessible
  330. # [22:15] <@tbsaunde> but it needs more tought
  331. # [22:16] <@tbsaunde> actually I think I did move one non xpcom method to nsAccessible because it was the easiest way to fix compiler confusion between a virtual function and a different non-virtual one
  332. # [22:16] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  333. # [22:26] <@tbsaunde> yeah, there's a little bit of code that needs to be factored out, but I think puling ISimpleDOM off nAccessNode is fairly possible
  334. # [22:27] <@davidb> good
  335. # [22:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, it'll be nice to make nsAccessible smaller
  336. # [22:30] <@davidb> tbsaunde: do you have about:memory on your plate?
  337. # [22:31] <@tbsaunde> no real plans there
  338. # [22:31] <@tbsaunde> you?
  339. # [22:32] <@davidb> no
  340. # [22:33] <@hub> there is that bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672504
  341. # [22:33] <@hub> but apparently it won't make it smaller
  342. # [22:35] <@tbsaunde> davidb: in any case I suspect the cache effects may be more important
  343. # [22:36] <@davidb> I can't believe it is 4:29pm EST
  344. # [22:40] <@davidb> ok have a good 1
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  346. # [22:54] <@hub> I still need a checkin for bug 714976
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  349. # [23:07] <@tbsaunde> hub: weird, I thought edmorley wasdoing pretty regular checkin needed runs
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  357. # Session Close: Wed Jan 11 00:00:01 2012

The end :)