/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-01-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jan 19 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:02] <@hub> I have a general a11y question: what about braille terminals?
  4. # [00:02] <@hub> is that something of the past or is it just a preference?
  5. # [00:05] <@tbsaunde> preference thing, Marco has one and uses it iirc
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  7. # [00:13] <@hub> oh does it work with a graphical UI ? it is just in braille what the voice over reads?
  8. # [00:13] <@hub> or is it a different concept?
  9. # [00:14] <@hub> all I remember in 1995 is that my friend was connecting it to a PC with a serial port and then remote login to the school UNIX server
  10. # [00:14] <@hub> and that she had an Emacs-like editor in it (like a laptop)
  11. # [00:14] <@hub> to work autonomously
  12. # [00:15] <@tbsaunde> I think it sort of brailles what voice over says
  13. # [00:16] <@tbsaunde> but I'm not really sure, never tried on a mac
  14. # [00:16] <@hub> ok. make sense.
  15. # [00:16] <@hub> that would also explain why I have a box with what voice over read displayed on my screen
  16. # [00:19] <@tbsaunde> yeah, maybe
  17. # [00:24] <@hub> and how is the driver situation on Linux?
  18. # [00:27] <@tbsaunde> I think it isn't too bad, but I don't really know much
  19. # [00:27] <@hub> ok
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  34. # [08:36] <@tbsaunde> jhk: how goes?
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  37. # [08:51] <jhk> tbsaunde: not tried yet. I will do it today.
  38. # [08:53] <@tbsaunde> jhk: sounds good
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  44. # [10:30] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 588756 on bug 718237.
  45. # [10:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718237 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "accessible/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | Test timed out." (which also causes lot
  46. # [10:38] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com denied checkin for attachment 589406 on bug 712923.
  47. # [10:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
  48. # [11:28] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 719372 filed by er.ankita.saxena@gmail.com.
  49. # [11:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719372 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, cfbvb
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  53. # [12:20] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 719372 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
  54. # [12:20] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set the Resolution field on bug 719372 to INVALID.
  55. # [12:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719372 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INVALID, cfbvb
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  62. # [14:02] <@askalski> hi everyone!
  63. # [14:02] <@askalski> tbsaunde, : hi, can you talk?
  64. # [14:02] <@askalski> I have a problem with this string contactenation
  65. # [14:02] <@askalski> I guess that it's non applicable
  66. # [14:03] <@askalski> I searched for a solution for a while, checked several ideas that came to my mind and I ended up thinking it's not doable
  67. # [14:03] <@tbsaunde> askalski: yeah, I think you might be right :/
  68. # [14:04] <@askalski> great. so I'll post patch to patch and be back to work with another one
  69. # [14:04] <@askalski> I think it's unwise to spend more time with it right now
  70. # [14:04] <@askalski> *on it
  71. # [14:04] <@tbsaunde> askalski: ok
  72. # [14:04] <@tbsaunde> agree
  73. # [14:05] <@tbsaunde> askalski: you might want to see if Alex has a idea that he likes better (see his comment)
  74. # [14:05] <@askalski> btw, thank you again for teaching me mercurial, I am much better with it now
  75. # [14:05] <@tbsaunde> yw
  76. # [14:09] <@askalski> is there a bugzilla to vidyo? I could post some bugs, I guess I made some decent research
  77. # [14:11] <@tbsaunde> askalski: huh? I don't understand
  78. # [14:14] <@askalski> well vidyo is a Mozilla product?
  79. # [14:14] <@askalski> or not?
  80. # [14:14] <@askalski> what I mean is that linux version looks like an alfa, and I could help improving it
  81. # [14:15] <@askalski> tbsaunde, honestly, I don't understand Alex's comment
  82. # [14:15] <@askalski> even though I am familliar with both bugs, as they're assigned tome
  83. # [14:16] <@tbsaunde> askalski: ok, I gues I'll deal with it when I'm more awake then
  84. # [14:17] <@tbsaunde> askalski: no, I don't think video is a mozilla thing
  85. # [14:18] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok, so I'll patch the first patch, and start working on the 716644 the way I planned until some tells me otherwise, ok?
  86. # [14:18] <@askalski> *someone
  87. # [14:18] <@tbsaunde> I gues so
  88. # [14:25] <@tbsaunde> askalski: alternatively you can ask Alex to explain
  89. # [14:26] <@askalski> is he online?
  90. # [14:28] <@tbsaunde> not on irc, bt you can ask on bugzilla it appears he's around there
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  95. # [15:04] <@davidb> hi all!
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  97. # [15:06] <@tbsaunde> mjorning davidb
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  99. # [15:10] <@tbsaunde> what's up davidb ?
  100. # [15:13] <@davidb> tbsaunde: just looking to see if there is an a11y roadmap for Orion
  101. # [15:14] <@davidb> I need to respond to some surkov questions too
  102. # [15:14] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i have a new patch for the telemetry that should make things clearer for everyone
  103. # [15:14] <@davidb> but I need to review it myself first :)
  104. # [15:15] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah
  105. # [15:15] * @tbsaunde needs to respond surkov a bunch too
  106. # [15:15] <@tbsaunde> he's too ood at finding things that could be better :)
  107. # [15:17] <@davidb> yes
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  110. # [15:21] <@davidb> MarcoZ: are you testing the source editor? (bug 717373)
  111. # [15:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717373 nor, P2, ---, nobody, NEW, Remove the textarea fallback from the Source Editor
  112. # [15:26] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 719419 filed by bolterbugz@gmail.com.
  113. # [15:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719419 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add more test coverage for visibility state related to tabs and decks.
  114. # [15:27] <@tbsaunde> davidb: bt what are decks?
  115. # [15:28] <@davidb> tbsaunde: An element that displays only one of its children at a time
  116. # [15:28] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oic, thx
  117. # [15:29] <@davidb> np
  118. # [15:37] <@firebot> askalski@mozilla.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 589850 on bug 717507.
  119. # [15:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717507 nor, --, ---, askalski, NEW, expandoify states
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  123. # [15:46] <@tbsaunde> jhk: any trouble debugging?
  124. # [15:48] <jhk> looking.....
  125. # [15:49] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what do you think of the latest patch on bug 712927?
  126. # [15:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712927 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] VoiceOver often repeats the document title as if it were a groupbox/fieldset heading/legend
  127. # [15:50] <@tbsaunde> davidb: let me look
  128. # [15:51] <@tbsaunde> I see hub hasn't changed the namespace from mac to utils like I asked or objected
  129. # [15:51] <@davidb> tbsaunde: I'm curious why review switched to me.
  130. # [15:51] <@tbsaunde> and LocalIzeString() makes mroe sense than LocalizedString()
  131. # [15:51] * @tbsaunde shrugs
  132. # [15:51] <@tbsaunde> (no clue)
  133. # [15:51] <@davidb> I suppose he wants a second opinion. I'll ask him when he gets in
  134. # [15:53] <@tbsaunde> so, I probably wouldn't r- it without finding a more serious issue than I have, but I'd really prefer it was cleaned up some before it lands
  135. # [15:54] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what is the namespace you want? mozilla::a11y::mac::utils?
  136. # [15:55] <@davidb> i'll check comments
  137. # [15:55] <@davidb> oh no mac
  138. # [15:56] <@tbsaunde> yeah, just a11y::utils
  139. # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> or maybe a11y::util::Foo()
  140. # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> I'm not sure
  141. # [15:57] <@davidb> meh
  142. # [15:58] <@tbsaunde> at what?
  143. # [16:00] <@askalski> can someone look at atk/nsRoleMap.h line 173?
  144. # [16:00] <@tbsaunde> askalski: doing
  145. # [16:00] <@askalski> there is a irregular line there, I am not sure if that's planned
  146. # [16:01] <@tbsaunde> askalski: the last entry thing can I believe in the case just go away
  147. # [16:02] <@askalski> tbsaunde, as always I will do some tests, and if that happens to be true, I'll be happy to remove it
  148. # [16:02] <@askalski> tbsaunde, otherwise, I'll give it number 125, if you don't mind :)
  149. # [16:03] <@tbsaunde> ok
  150. # [16:03] <@tbsaunde> iirc there is a roles::LAST_ENTRY that I believe should have the same number
  151. # [16:03] <@tbsaunde> but I don't think its used for anything either once your done with what you do
  152. # [16:04] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok. I am using some python script to generate the RoleList.h file, I can keep the comments from mac version if you like
  153. # [16:04] <@davidb> there might be some cleanup required
  154. # [16:05] <@tbsaunde> askalski: the coments from Role.h are the ones I'd think you want
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  157. # [16:05] <@surkov> hi, davidb :)
  158. # [16:05] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok, should I remove the mac ones, or append?
  159. # [16:06] <@tbsaunde> askalski: let me see if there is something useful
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  161. # [16:06] <@davidb> hi hi!
  162. # [16:07] <@askalski> tbsaunde, there are a lot of comments like "since version" or "unused on mac"
  163. # [16:07] <@tbsaunde> askalski: find a nice way to add the useful ones
  164. # [16:08] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok. I am unable to test mac code by myself, right?
  165. # [16:08] <@MarcoZ> davidb Where do I find that?
  166. # [16:08] <@askalski> davidb, I am downloading and installing everything from the MDN doc on build on windows
  167. # [16:08] <@tbsaunde> askalski: do you have try access?
  168. # [16:08] <@davidb> MarcoZ: tools, web developer, style editor
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  170. # [16:09] <@davidb> askalski: good
  171. # [16:09] <@tbsaunde> does askalski actually need to try something on windows or just to see how well it works?
  172. # [16:10] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK, never used it, so am not sure what I am looking for.
  173. # [16:10] <@askalski> tbsaunde, testing on linux is undeterministic
  174. # [16:10] <@askalski> tbsaunde, at least on my one
  175. # [16:10] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I am setting other build environments as well to find the proper combination, maybe even find what's wrong
  176. # [16:11] <@tbsaunde> askalski: it probably is for me too though I haven't run the tests tooo much recently, and its non deterministic on the build slaves too :(
  177. # [16:11] <@askalski> though it goes slow, as I cant do much simultaneously due RAM limits
  178. # [16:11] <@davidb> MarcoZ: see if you can read lines of code, what you type in, and are there line numbers etc
  179. # [16:11] <@askalski> tbsaunde, someone should work on tests then
  180. # [16:11] <@tbsaunde> askalski: yes, are you volunteering? ;)
  181. # [16:11] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I have a friend who does it for chrome
  182. # [16:12] <@askalski> tbsaunde, actually I may try it :)
  183. # [16:12] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: any news on Orion a11y support?
  184. # [16:12] <@askalski> tbsaunde, is our test framework somehow related to chrome's one?
  185. # [16:12] <richardschwerdtfeger> oh damn asking now
  186. # [16:12] <richardschwerdtfeger> thanks
  187. # [16:12] <@askalski> or does "chrome" thing stand for something different
  188. # [16:12] <@tbsaunde> have fun every time I deal with I tend to have at least one arg I wish I was using a statically typed language
  189. # [16:13] <@tbsaunde> moment
  190. # [16:13] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Nope, none of that.
  191. # [16:13] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I get what appears to be a caret stuck somewhere in an iframe, and NVDA speaks a huge blurb of text that is the current style sheet code, but there's no way to review it for me.
  192. # [16:13] <@tbsaunde> askalski: noap doesn't have anything to do with google afaik
  193. # [16:13] <@tbsaunde> chrome means trusted java script
  194. # [16:14] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: thanks
  195. # [16:14] <@tbsaunde> for ui and stuff
  196. # [16:14] <@davidb> MarcoZ: darn
  197. # [16:14] <@askalski> tbsaunde, thanks
  198. # [16:14] <@askalski> I'll try to get familiar with testing while working on first bug I've taken
  199. # [16:15] <@askalski> and if I see I can do there, I'll volunteer
  200. # [16:15] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I am able to find all information in what appear to be spans or so inside the accessible tree, but no way to navigate it or read it in a sensible fashion. And no line numbers to be found anywhere.
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  205. # [16:17] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ok, now the thing is, I'm not sure asking them to leave the plain editor fallback is going to do us any good. we should push on Orion a11y, perhaps contract some work.
  206. # [16:17] <@davidb> it feels very Mozilla Foundationy
  207. # [16:18] <@davidb> Aaron would be capable.
  208. # [16:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Aaron is busy with Webkit.
  209. # [16:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And as far as I can see, the textarea fallback doesn't even work.
  210. # [16:18] <@davidb> yes, but monthly contracts.
  211. # [16:18] <@davidb> oh
  212. # [16:19] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I don't see a textarea anywhere.
  213. # [16:19] <@davidb> MarcoZ: it is likely a pref
  214. # [16:19] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Ah.
  215. # [16:20] <@davidb> or config
  216. # [16:21] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Anyway, current config and stuff isn't working.
  217. # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> ok, /me -> bbiab
  218. # [16:21] * tbsaunde is now known as tbsaunde|afk
  219. # [16:22] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Regarding bug 712923, do you think leaving text leaf accessibles in place for heading objects would be sufficient? I am not certain we'd do ourselves a favor if we left the text leaf accessibles in place always, though.
  220. # [16:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
  221. # [16:22] <@davidb> MarcoZ: oh sorry, this would be better to test is tools, web developer, scratchpad
  222. # [16:22] <@surkov> MarcoZ: hub said os x needs two accessible object for a link (for h1 elm and static text inside), that's what we have on internal level
  223. # [16:23] <@MarcoZ> surkov: OK!
  224. # [16:23] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Same thing.
  225. # [16:24] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Same failure.
  226. # [16:24] <@davidb> figures
  227. # [16:28] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes this looks like the same control to me.
  228. # [16:28] <@askalski> btw, congratulation guys for having such a regular coding style, I don't need ANTLR to parse your code :)
  229. # [16:29] <@davidb> heh
  230. # [16:29] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I'm adding another comment
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  232. # [16:32] <jhk> tbsaunde: no more "grayed" sound by orca and it works smoothly.
  233. # [16:32] <jhk> But still I want you to apply attached patch which is back out of 480317 and see if I am missing something.
  234. # [16:36] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah the textarea one works nicely.
  235. # [16:37] <@davidb> ok
  236. # [16:37] <@davidb> MarcoZ: is there a serotek download that works with FF nightly?
  237. # [16:38] <@davidb> (free)
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  239. # [16:40] <@askalski> davidb, tbsaunde|afk : ok, I've loaded atk, mac and msaa into a script, now I can generate the macro. should I include anything else?
  240. # [16:41] <@askalski> oh, and roles.h as well
  241. # [16:41] <@davidb> askalski: ice cream for surkov
  242. # [16:41] <@askalski> so 4 files
  243. # [16:43] <@askalski> davidb, : as long as you mean ASCII art - no problem boss
  244. # [16:44] <@davidb> not in this channel please :)
  245. # [16:44] <@davidb> (ascii art)
  246. # [16:47] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I only use satogo.com and start the dynamic version of Serotek that way.
  247. # [16:47] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I was told once that that always gives me the latest release.
  248. # [16:47] <@davidb> i'll try that thanks
  249. # [16:48] <@davidb> oh that's what i tried, and it failed
  250. # [16:48] <@davidb> MarcoZ: does it currently work for you?
  251. # [16:48] <@MarcoZ> davidb: The last time I tried, I had to use IE to get it started, didn't work with Firefox for some reason.
  252. # [16:48] <@davidb> MarcoZ: do you have a contact there?
  253. # [16:48] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Let me try.
  254. # [16:49] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I was talking to Matt Campbell, who used to hang out on this channel in the past, and who is also on Twitter.
  255. # [16:49] <@davidb> yeah!
  256. # [16:50] * @davidb waits to hear results of test
  257. # [16:56] <@MarcoZ> davidb: It doesn't work for me either. Nightly freezes as soon as it runs with Serotek.
  258. # [16:56] <@MarcoZ> (meaning after I launch Nightly, I can't do anything, and pressing Alt+F4 gives me a "does not respond" dialog)ö.
  259. # [16:56] <@davidb> MarcoZ: would you like to ping Matt?
  260. # [16:58] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Can do.
  261. # [16:58] <@davidb> ok then I won't bother
  262. # [16:58] <@davidb> thanks
  263. # [16:58] * @davidb downloads supernova demo
  264. # [17:00] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Done.
  265. # [17:06] <@surkov> davidb: ice-cream? for what?
  266. # [17:06] <@davidb> surkov: i wasn't sure if you liked the patch(s)
  267. # [17:07] <@surkov> davidb: which one?
  268. # [17:07] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  269. # [17:08] <@davidb> surkov: the askalski macro stuff
  270. # [17:08] <@davidb> but I don't want to bother you - you should be adding registration API to atk :)
  271. # [17:11] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 589872 on bug 678965.
  272. # [17:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678965 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, telemetry for injected screen reader dll's
  273. # [17:11] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from nfroyd@mozilla.com for attachment 589872 on bug 678965.
  274. # [17:39] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  275. # [17:40] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  276. # [17:41] * @davidb downloads cobra
  277. # [17:52] * Joins: hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net)
  278. # [17:52] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  279. # [17:54] <@MarcoZ> Morning hub!
  280. # [18:00] <@askalski> davidb, what are cobra and supernova demo?
  281. # [18:00] <@askalski> testing time!
  282. # [18:00] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  283. # [18:01] * Joins: askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl)
  284. # [18:01] * ChanServ sets mode: +o askalski
  285. # [18:08] <@MarcoZ> askalski: They're screen readers for Windows. Like NVDA, JaWS, Window-Eyes also are. And they all support Firefox.
  286. # [18:10] <@tbsaunde|afk>
  287. # [18:11] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
  288. # [18:15] <@tbsaunde> askalski: we have a list of string roles in nsAccessibilityService.cpp or h
  289. # [18:15] <@askalski> tbsaunde, should I add this file to macro as well?
  290. # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> askalski: please
  291. # [18:16] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I think I'll be finishing for today now, I can post my fist patch proposition
  292. # [18:16] <@askalski> without this file yet
  293. # [18:16] <@askalski> also, I have some problems with tests
  294. # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> askalski: just wait till your done, I'm not going to review stuff today
  295. # [18:17] <@askalski> I am rebuilding clean build to check
  296. # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> jhk: ok, cool, I can't test today
  297. # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> jhk: mind attaching the real fix you have?
  298. # [18:17] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-2A9C9106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  299. # [18:17] <@askalski> davidb, can you give me access to some remote testing machine?
  300. # [18:18] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  301. # [18:18] * Joins: askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl)
  302. # [18:18] * ChanServ sets mode: +o askalski
  303. # [18:19] <jhk> tbsaunde: attached is the latest I have right now.
  304. # [18:20] <jhk> tbsaunde: you can use that.
  305. # [18:21] <@MarcoZ> askalski: You should be able to throw a patch against the try-server build. Don't know if you need repo access there as well.
  306. # [18:22] <@askalski> MarcoZ, : how to?
  307. # [18:22] <@tbsaunde> askalski: wait one, I'll give you a link
  308. # [18:23] <@tbsaunde> askalski: file a bug like 626185
  309. # [18:23] <@tbsaunde> bug 626185
  310. # [18:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=626185 nor, --, ---, jlaz, RESO FIXED, Commit access (level 1) for Trevor Saunders
  311. # [18:24] <@tbsaunde> askalski: www.mozilla.org/hacking/committer/
  312. # [18:25] <@tbsaunde> askalski: once you've filed a bug poke me :)
  313. # [18:26] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok. I am finishing for today, I guess that adding this new file will take me (with tests) about hour or two tomorrow (I need to update a generator), so I'll poke you tommorow
  314. # [18:26] <@askalski> bye everyone
  315. # [18:27] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@D9E72232.1C233438.79933D60.IP)
  316. # [18:27] <@tbsaunde> ok, sounds good
  317. # [18:27] <@askalski> everyone, have nice day/evening depending on timezone :), bye
  318. # [18:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, I was thinking about bug 686909 and that huristic is an ancient african word for "maybe if we take a bong hit this problem will become more tractable"
  319. # [18:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686909 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The system suffix is for system generated events only
  320. # [18:32] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  321. # [18:33] <@tbsaunde> and it occurs to me that if the text is changing in a editable field that is focused the user almost certainly wants to know about the change
  322. # [18:33] <@tbsaunde> and the change is probably caused by the user since the thing changing is focused
  323. # [18:34] <@surkov> why do you talk what we should have (it appears that's what bug summary states)
  324. # [18:34] <@tbsaunde> so, wow would you feel about a patch that sticks the system suffix on if and only if the thing having its text changed is not (editable and focused)
  325. # [18:35] <@tbsaunde> and a XXX comment saying "we should user isFromUserInput here but that isn't correct for text change events when content isn't being inserted"
  326. # [18:35] <@tbsaunde> sorry, typing is hard with laggy connection
  327. # [18:35] <@surkov> well, at least that works in most cases
  328. # [18:36] <@surkov> however I'm not sure we should say the event is from user input while the edit field is focused but the user doesn't change anything
  329. # [18:37] <@tbsaunde> true
  330. # [18:37] <@tbsaunde> I'm not saying its perfect, just a lot better
  331. # [18:38] <@tbsaunde> and that what orca arguably wants is sohould this be spoken
  332. # [18:38] <@tbsaunde> and I think there is an argument that even if the user didn't change something it should be spoken in this case
  333. # [18:40] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that's should be not bad workaround
  334. # [18:41] <@tbsaunde> ok, I'll put a patch up in next day or two
  335. # [18:41] <@tbsaunde> just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting my time writing a patch you'd r- out of hand
  336. # [18:43] <@surkov> I'm not a monster :) thanks for working on it
  337. # [18:45] <@tbsaunde> hehe
  338. # [18:45] <@tbsaunde> but your dam good at find problems with patches :-)
  339. # [18:47] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  340. # [19:11] <@firebot> nfroyd@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 589872 on bug 678965.
  341. # [19:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678965 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, telemetry for injected screen reader dll's
  342. # [19:15] <@davidb> MarcoZ: So FF 10 will have an ESR release stream. Can you think of anything we'll need to push there?
  343. # [19:15] <@davidb> hi hub
  344. # [19:16] <@davidb> hub: not sure I can get to that review today, but seems you are almost at an r+ from tbsaunde
  345. # [19:16] <@hub> ESR means that we'll update it all along?
  346. # [19:16] <@davidb> hub: I think it means we'll mostly only port security fixes
  347. # [19:16] <@hub> davidb: don't worry, surkov stalled the previous patch
  348. # [19:16] <@hub> so...
  349. # [19:16] <@davidb> oh i don't like the sound of stalled :(
  350. # [19:17] <@davidb> but if it can be improved great
  351. # [19:21] * tbsaunde is now known as tbsaunde|afk
  352. # [19:22] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I think FF10 is in good shape. We were able to backport regression fixes from the focus handling rework.
  353. # [19:22] <@davidb> cool
  354. # [19:22] <@MarcoZ> davidb: The only thing we might need to revisit is the Linux/Gnome thing bug 693343.
  355. # [19:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=693343 maj, --, mozilla12, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, accessibility always disabled in GNOME 3 unless GNOME_ACCESSIBILITY is set
  356. # [19:22] <@davidb> yeah i was thinking the same
  357. # [19:23] <@davidb> i wonder if distros will flock to the ESR releases
  358. # [19:23] <@MarcoZ> That one was denied landing even on Aurora, but if FF10 becomes supported for over a year, we might want to ask drivers to re-think, probably in a personal conversation rather than a comment thread on a bug.
  359. # [19:24] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I somehow doubt it, but you never know what goes through distro maintainers' minds.
  360. # [19:24] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Web developers would probably be pissed if that happened.
  361. # [19:26] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-D9A1E2B0.static.mundo-r.com) (Quit: surkov)
  362. # [19:28] <@MarcoZ> OK, calling it a day. See you tomorrow!
  363. # [19:28] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-425C0AE0.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: See you tomorrow!)
  364. # [19:30] <@davidb> wow
  365. # [19:30] <@davidb> “It’s a true war: the last bastion of creative/productive ingenuity in America versus the swamp of D.C.’s parasitic, industry-conflicted bureaucracy.”—Forbes
  366. # [19:37] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-D9A1E2B0.static.mundo-r.com)
  367. # [19:37] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  368. # [19:42] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  369. # [19:55] <@davidb> hub, surkov: wild dances? Like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd9-zZdSoqU ?
  370. # [19:55] <@davidb> that video shows our tree updates.
  371. # [19:56] <@davidb> (bug 712923)
  372. # [19:56] <@surkov> davidb: I bet that video is more worst :)
  373. # [19:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
  374. # [19:56] <@surkov> or more wild :)
  375. # [19:57] <@davidb> :)
  376. # [20:09] <@hub> apparently the new Apple iBooks Author takes into account accessibility
  377. # [20:09] <@hub> ie integrate Voice Over into the content
  378. # [20:09] <@hub> (this is their Text Book tool they just announced today)
  379. # [20:10] <@davidb> makes sense
  380. # [20:11] <@hub> to be honest I didn't know about that feature
  381. # [20:11] <@hub> (I worked on it)
  382. # [20:11] <@hub> the tool
  383. # [20:11] <@davidb> heh
  384. # [20:11] <@davidb> funny how things happen
  385. # [20:12] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  386. # [20:13] <@hub> one more thing that will hinder the Android tablets
  387. # [20:13] <@davidb> yeah
  388. # [20:13] <@davidb> i uninstalled google books
  389. # [20:14] <@hub> I still have iBooks installed... to read DRM free epub and PDF
  390. # [20:51] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-D9A1E2B0.static.mundo-r.com) (Quit: surkov)
  391. # [20:52] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  392. # [20:58] * @eeejay uses callibre and some plugins to crack drm, so i could share chapters of books
  393. # [20:58] <@eeejay> i think it falls under fair-use
  394. # [20:58] <@eeejay> if i had the hardcopy, I would xerox 10 pages to share with folks in a study group
  395. # [21:06] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: nhirata)
  396. # [21:08] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  397. # [21:15] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-aurora for attachment 588258 on bug 717753.
  398. # [21:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717753 maj, --, mozilla12, sgautherie.bz, RESO FIXED, [SeaMonkey] mochitest-a11y: test_focus_browserui.xul needs to support non-Firefox applications too
  399. # [21:34] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
  400. # [21:36] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 719546 filed by cpeterson@mozilla.com.
  401. # [21:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719546 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, YBCA web page blocks keyboard shortcuts, including CMD+W and CMD+Q
  402. # [21:39] <@tbsaunde> anyone desperately need me for something? otherwise I'm off to sleep for a while
  403. # [21:48] * tbsaunde is now known as tbsaunde}afk
  404. # [21:48] * tbsaunde}afk is now known as tbsaunde|afk
  405. # [21:56] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  406. # [22:16] <@davidb> i'm super tired myself
  407. # [22:19] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@D9E72232.1C233438.79933D60.IP) (Ping timeout)
  408. # [22:28] <@davidb> ok have a good one
  409. # [22:28] <@davidb> ciao
  410. # [22:28] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  411. # [22:49] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@EEFA53B9.880C8D58.79933D60.IP)
  412. # [22:52] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com cancelled review?(bolterbugz@gmail.co m) for attachment 589644 on bug 712927.
  413. # [22:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712927 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] VoiceOver often repeats the document title as if it were a groupbox/fieldset heading/legend
  414. # [22:58] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  415. # [23:46] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  416. # Session Close: Fri Jan 20 00:00:00 2012

The end :)