/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-01-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jan 20 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  8. # [00:17] <satdav> hi guys
  9. # [00:17] <satdav> I was wondering is their a way to get a screen reader intergrated to firefox
  10. # [00:20] <@hub> satdav: which platform?
  11. # [00:24] <satdav> windows
  12. # [00:39] <satdav> hub, windows i am on
  13. # [00:40] <@hub> satdav: it works. NVDA works with Firefox. and also others
  14. # [00:40] <satdav> cool
  15. # [00:40] <satdav> I am working with sumo amdmins to see what we can prove the sumo site
  16. # [00:40] <satdav> to make it more user accessable
  17. # [00:54] <satdav> has anyone tried any of the firefox addons
  18. # [00:54] <satdav> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=screen+reader&appver=9.0.1&platform=windows
  19. # [00:54] <satdav> for screen reader
  20. # [00:59] <@hub> you shouldn't need an addon
  21. # [00:59] <@hub> but I don't know Windows
  22. # [01:00] <@hub> what you need is a screen reader like http://www.nvda-project.org/
  23. # [01:00] <@hub> and it will talk to Firefox
  24. # [01:00] <@hub> (on Windows)
  25. # [01:05] <satdav> yes
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  27. # [01:22] <@eeejay> satdav, there used to be firevox, but it is not maintained anymore. Your best bet is to use a platform screen reader like nvda on windows, orca on linux, or (soon!) voiceover on mac
  28. # [01:22] <satdav> cool
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  39. # [03:35] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone" | release schedule: http://mzl.la/LNc0W'
  40. # [03:35] * Set by davidb on Thu Dec 08 15:12:17
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  49. # [04:27] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone" | release schedule: http://mzl.la/LNc0W'
  50. # [04:27] * Set by davidb on Thu Dec 08 15:12:17
  51. # [05:34] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590095 on bug 712923.
  52. # [05:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
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  92. # [12:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 289006 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  93. # [12:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 289006 to WORKSFORME.
  94. # [12:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289006 nor, --, ---, Louie.Zhao, RESO WORKSFORME, Support required and invalid states (leaving open for ATK support)
  95. # [12:27] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 490757 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  96. # [12:28] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 490757 to WONTFIX.
  97. # [12:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=490757 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, make progressmeter to implement interfaces exposing value and max properties
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  99. # [13:43] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 719754 filed by dao@mozilla.com.
  100. # [13:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719754 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Rewrite a11y tests that put <tabbrowser> in random XUL documents and expect it to work
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  103. # [14:02] <@tbsaunde|afk> jhk: so, I was pretty out of it yesterday :( how are you doing debugging what's wrong with the patch?
  104. # [14:02] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
  105. # [14:05] <@tbsaunde> jhk: did you want me to do anything?
  106. # [14:06] <jhk> tbsaunde: yes I am unaware of ATK thing.
  107. # [14:10] <jhk> i mean implementation...:(
  108. # [14:11] <@tbsaunde> jhk: so, you saw the comment in the gnome bug about the accessible have unknown role etc?
  109. # [14:12] <jhk> looking again...
  110. # [14:13] <@tbsaunde> that's where I'd start
  111. # [14:14] <@tbsaunde> jhk: so, you have a broken accessible right? what questions do you have?
  112. # [14:14] <@tbsaunde> questions about the state of the world I mean, that will help you understand what has gone wrong
  113. # [14:15] <jhk> yes
  114. # [14:15] <jhk> got it
  115. # [14:16] <@tbsaunde> you can dump questions in channel, I may be able to help you get answers
  116. # [14:26] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 589850 on bug 717507.
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  119. # [14:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717507 nor, --, ---, askalski, NEW, expandoify states
  120. # [14:26] <jhk> tbsaunde: ok it stuck because of it returns unknown role? where it returns unknown role(in implementation).?
  121. # [14:28] <@tbsaunde> jhk: getRoleCB in atk/nsAccessibleWrap.cpp
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  123. # [14:32] <@firebot> a2414578@nepwk.com changed the Component on bug 719761 from Menus to Keyboard Navigation.
  124. # [14:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719761 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Can't navigate to <splitmenu> menuitems in App Button menu using keyboard
  125. # [14:34] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590175 on bug 686909.
  126. # [14:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686909 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The system suffix is for system generated events only
  127. # [14:45] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(trev.saunders@gma il.com) for attachment 589478 on bug 718990.
  128. # [14:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718990 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Atk-based plugins to slot into our a11y tree stucks orca in some flash web pages.
  129. # [14:51] <@tbsaunde> jhk: so, if you ahve <div role="blah">bar</div> in the DOM
  130. # [14:51] <@tbsaunde> we create an accessible for the div
  131. # [14:52] <@tbsaunde> see see nsAccessibilityService::CreateFoo() methods
  132. # [14:53] <@tbsaunde> often those are called from layout but they can be called in other ways
  133. # [14:53] <@tbsaunde> atk is the thing that bridges between our code and accessibility stuff on linux
  134. # [14:54] <@tbsaunde> so the atk role is in principal the same as our role but what atk uses
  135. # [14:55] <@tbsaunde> jhk: that answer your questions?
  136. # [14:56] <jhk> yes. and aPresShell and content?
  137. # [14:57] <@tbsaunde> what about them? they're args to the Create function that get stored in accessibles
  138. # [14:57] <@tbsaunde> so that when you call something like Role() or State() on an accessible it can find out what to return from the DOM
  139. # [14:58] <@tbsaunde> and layout and other places
  140. # [14:58] <jhk> ok. now its clear. thanks:)
  141. # [14:59] <@tbsaunde> np
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  143. # [15:16] <Stevef> afternoon all
  144. # [15:17] <@tbsaunde> morning Stevef
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  146. # [15:18] <Stevef> MarcoZ: or anyone I have probably asked this before, but why is HTML5 section element mapped to IA2 paragraph role rather than section role?
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  149. # [15:24] <@davidb> hey hey
  150. # [15:24] * @davidb hunts caffeine
  151. # [15:26] <Stevef> davidb: morning a question for you "I have probably asked this before, but why is HTML5 section element mapped to IA2 paragraph role rather than section role?"
  152. # [15:27] <Stevef> looking at the IA2 role definitions does not seem correct as a paragraph
  153. # [15:33] <@davidb> back
  154. # [15:33] <@davidb> Stevef: I don't recall the thinking/discussion off hand.
  155. # [15:34] <Stevef> davidb:np will look for bug and comment
  156. # [15:34] <@davidb> thanks
  157. # [15:34] <Stevef> just doing some testing for html5accessibility and came across it
  158. # [15:34] <@davidb> cool
  159. # [15:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: did you consider not usingthe second enum for the telemetry patch?
  160. # [15:37] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i did.
  161. # [15:37] <@davidb> consider that
  162. # [15:38] <@davidb> tbsaunde: can talk in 30 minutes
  163. # [15:38] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
  164. # [15:38] <@tbsaunde> ok
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  167. # [16:09] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah so, I don't really like have two sets of similar data, but at the same time, I feel like they can grow apart. Not sure though.
  168. # [16:10] <@davidb> I was aiming for clarity.
  169. # [16:14] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok
  170. # [16:15] <@tbsaunde> I guess its fine
  171. # [16:15] <@tbsaunde> and right now I'd expect Alex will disagree whatever I say :p so what the helk r=me
  172. # [16:17] <@davidb> hahah
  173. # [16:17] <@davidb> sounds like i need to check bugmail
  174. # [16:18] <@davidb> but I'm never shocked when good developers don't agree
  175. # [16:20] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 589872 on bug 678965.
  176. # [16:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678965 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, telemetry for injected screen reader dll's
  177. # [16:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: in my local copy i added the cobra screen reader.
  178. # [16:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd expect you can do that sainly
  179. # [16:23] * @davidb cackles
  180. # [16:24] <@tbsaunde> but if you want to show me a pastebin or something I won't object ;)
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  186. # [16:53] <@davidb> tbsaunde: in objective c what does "-(id)value" translate to in C++?
  187. # [16:53] <@davidb> oh
  188. # [16:55] <@davidb> (id) is a reference to an unknown objective-c class
  189. # [16:55] <@davidb> not quite like void*
  190. # [16:55] <@davidb> interesting
  191. # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> davidb: got it? I tend to read it as type funcName
  192. # [16:55] <@davidb> yep
  193. # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> as far as I can see objective see should be named objectionable C
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  195. # [16:58] <@firebot> neil@httl.net granted superreview for attachment 588980 on bug 698823.
  196. # [16:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698823 nor, --, mozilla10, eitan, NEW, Introduce virtual cursor/soft focus functionality to a11y API
  197. # [16:58] <@tbsaunde> jhk: how is the debugging?
  198. # [17:01] <jhk> Trying....not sure this school work let me do this?:(
  199. # [17:01] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com granted review for attachment 589979 on bug 712927.
  200. # [17:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712927 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] VoiceOver often repeats the document title as if it were a groupbox/fieldset heading/legend
  201. # [17:02] <@tbsaunde> jhk: so, what do you know so far
  202. # [17:03] <@tbsaunde> have you found the accessible with unknown role?
  203. # [17:03] <@tbsaunde> in a debugger I mean
  204. # [17:04] <jhk> not tried with gdb yet.
  205. # [17:05] <jhk> I will tell you when I have some thing.
  206. # [17:05] <@tbsaunde> jhk: I'd strongly recommend using a debugger here
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  215. # [17:28] <@aaronlev> Morning all
  216. # [17:29] <@davidb> heyo
  217. # [17:30] <@MarcoZ> Hi aaronlev!
  218. # [17:30] <@davidb> oh, no inlining in objective-C. interesting
  219. # [17:31] <@davidb> hub: thanks for answering my comments.
  220. # [17:31] <@hub> davidb: no inlining of Objective-C method
  221. # [17:31] * @davidb nods
  222. # [17:32] <@tbsaunde> davidb: as far as I can tell they virtually dispatch everything
  223. # [17:32] <@hub> yep
  224. # [17:32] <@hub> and you can override at runtime
  225. # [17:32] <@hub> the dispatch is done by name, not by vtable offset
  226. # [17:32] <@davidb> oh i like that
  227. # [17:32] <@davidb> override at runtime
  228. # [17:32] <@davidb> how do you do that?
  229. # [17:33] <@hub> you can maniplate the "selectors"
  230. # [17:33] <@hub> which is the function pointers
  231. # [17:33] <@davidb> is this blessed?
  232. # [17:33] <@tbsaunde> <@tbsaunde> as far as I can see objective see should be named objectionable C
  233. # [17:33] <@davidb> hahaha
  234. # [17:33] <@hub> davidb: this is part of the language
  235. # [17:33] <@davidb> well don't listen to me… i love js
  236. # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> LOL
  237. # [17:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: to be far apparently xpconnect generates vtables
  238. # [17:34] <@davidb> i dare say
  239. # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> hub: Did you see surkov's question about embedded characters in bug 712923?
  240. # [17:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
  241. # [17:34] <@davidb> ok i need to time my patch landing with when Alex is asleep.
  242. # [17:34] <@tbsaunde> so, you can do it in C++ if you know something about the compiler
  243. # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Why is that?
  244. # [17:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah
  245. # [17:34] <@davidb> MarcoZ: kidding.
  246. # [17:35] <@MarcoZ> :D
  247. # [17:35] <@hub> MarcoZ: I read it. haven't answered it.
  248. # [17:35] <@MarcoZ> hub: Yeah that's a valid point he has there. This is the reason for the request to flatten the tree, since links are really represented as these embedded characters in the text interface.
  249. # [17:52] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
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  252. # [17:54] <@askalski> hi everyone
  253. # [17:55] <@davidb> heyo
  254. # [17:56] <@askalski> I have created a filter on e-mail to get more responsive, I missed some important info yesterday
  255. # [17:58] <@firebot> faulkner.steve@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 719852 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
  256. # [17:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719852 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, accessibility API mapping for section element
  257. # [17:59] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-FBEAB712.croy.cable.virginmedia.com)
  258. # [17:59] <Stevef> davidb: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719852
  259. # [17:59] <Stevef> tell me ifyou need more details
  260. # [18:01] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  261. # [18:01] <@hub> davidb: next time I need RAM for the laptop (ie not in a while), can I just order myself and expense it?
  262. # [18:02] <@hub> davidb: 'cause they still haven't ordered it
  263. # [18:02] <@hub> and it took me less than a week to get some for the iMac
  264. # [18:02] <@hub> (home machine0
  265. # [18:04] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
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  271. # [18:10] <@davidb> hub: what!?
  272. # [18:10] <@davidb> hub: bug #?
  273. # [18:11] * @davidb steps away
  274. # [18:11] <@hub> 713956
  275. # [18:11] <@hub> you are CC on it
  276. # [18:14] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 713010 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
  277. # [18:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713010 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Element marked with ARIA role='button' and aria-pressed attribute not exposed as a toggle button
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  280. # [18:21] <@aaronlev> how does one view accessibility properties in DOM inspector?
  281. # [18:27] <@aaronlev> I think it's different than "Inspect" that I'm seeing here
  282. # [18:28] * Quits: a-865 (fmcz@moz-A5D13CA.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [SeaMonkey 2.7/20120105145319])
  283. # [18:28] * Joins: nuno (nuno@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net)
  284. # [18:29] <@aaronlev> yep, got it
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  287. # [18:31] <@davidb> aaronlev: yeah, you sort of have to jiggle it
  288. # [18:31] <@davidb> choose the a11y tree view, twice
  289. # [18:34] <@hub> for some reason my DOM Inspector is in French
  290. # [18:34] <@hub> I don't know why
  291. # [18:46] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  292. # [18:46] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 678965 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  293. # [18:46] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 678965 to FIXED.
  294. # [18:46] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 678965 from --- to mozilla12.
  295. # [18:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678965 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, telemetry for injected screen reader dll's
  296. # [18:48] <@davidb> hub: sounds like a bug
  297. # [18:48] <@hub> yeah it is coincide with when I tried to set a different language in firefox and failed
  298. # [18:51] <@davidb> oh so your profile is mangled?
  299. # [18:51] <@aaronlev> hi eeejay
  300. # [18:51] <@aaronlev> !seen eeejay
  301. # [18:51] <@firebot> eeejay was last seen 17 hours, 29 minutes and 41 seconds ago, saying 'satdav, there used to be firevox, but it is not maintained anymore. Your best bet is to use a platform screen reader like nvda on windows, orca on linux, or (soon!) voiceover on mac'
  302. # [18:51] <@firebot> in #accessibility.
  303. # [18:52] <@davidb> MarcoZ: finally, we'll find out some juicy data about readers :)
  304. # [19:03] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@89D4A401.5BCEC6DB.DA78B690.IP) (Ping timeout)
  305. # [19:04] <@eeejay> morning
  306. # [19:04] <@eeejay> i want to say that the irregular weather conditions made me have a late start
  307. # [19:04] <@eeejay> aaronlev, hey
  308. # [19:05] <@askalski> davidb, in nsAccessibilityServeice.h I found lists of EVENTs and RELATIONs, are these re-defined elsewhere, so I could wrap them in macro?
  309. # [19:05] <@askalski> *should
  310. # [19:05] <@askalski> I am just asking is there some similar work as the bugs I am working on
  311. # [19:07] <@davidb> hi eeejay
  312. # [19:07] * Quits: webben (benjamin@moz-BA505DDD.static.cloud-ips.com) (Ping timeout)
  313. # [19:07] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  314. # [19:07] <@davidb> hi askalski
  315. # [19:07] <@davidb> askalski: I think you need to get surkov on board first
  316. # [19:08] <@askalski> davidb, ok, I am reading his comments under the bugs right now trying to figure out whether to continue or not
  317. # [19:08] <@davidb> askalski: it is great that you are noticing these other places in the code.
  318. # [19:09] <@davidb> askalski: I think you should bookmark it and work on some other things for now
  319. # [19:10] <@davidb> unfortunate, but it happens
  320. # [19:11] <@aaronlev> eeejay: i download the source for speclenium on windows
  321. # [19:12] <@aaronlev> planning to use it
  322. # [19:12] <@eeejay> uh oh
  323. # [19:12] <@eeejay> cool
  324. # [19:12] <@aaronlev> looking at the dependencies
  325. # [19:12] <@askalski> davidb, no problem. I am watching the discussion, just let me know once you find consensus. So I should working on something else than 716644 and 717507, right?
  326. # [19:13] <@aaronlev> would you be willing to walk me through getting it running from source?
  327. # [19:13] <@davidb> aaronlev: I haven't used it in 4 years
  328. # [19:13] <@davidb> askalski: right
  329. # [19:14] <@davidb> oh!
  330. # [19:14] <@davidb> i thought you said selenium
  331. # [19:14] <@askalski> davidb, ok, I'll look for some other patch then, unless you have some suggestions
  332. # [19:14] <@davidb> aaronlev: ^
  333. # [19:14] <@davidb> askalski: a smaller one is bug 717506
  334. # [19:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717506 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, telemetry for xforms use
  335. # [19:14] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what do you think? (bug for askalski) ^
  336. # [19:15] <@davidb> oh you suggest it in the bug :)
  337. # [19:15] <@davidb> askalski: sound good?
  338. # [19:16] <@askalski> davidb, btw, while working on these two previous one, I have produced some side code in python, it might be reused some day. I can upload it somewhere. Just so you know the changes can be generated.
  339. # [19:16] <@davidb> askalski: sure, maybe put it on a github account for now?
  340. # [19:17] <@eeejay> aaronlev, sure, i'll try. haven't tried it in a while
  341. # [19:18] <@askalski> davidb, I have a phone call, be back with you in 5 mins
  342. # [19:18] <@eeejay> aaronlev, i think selenium might be way too out of sync to use now
  343. # [19:18] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
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  345. # [19:18] <@davidb> eeejay: selenium or speclenium?
  346. # [19:18] <@eeejay> davidb, speclenium depends on selenium
  347. # [19:18] <@davidb> ahhh ok
  348. # [19:20] <@davidb> aside: Adam Goucher hangs with some Mozillians.
  349. # [19:21] <@aaronlev> eeejay: i need to make it work, i guess
  350. # [19:21] <@eeejay> aaronlev, let me dig up the page i wrote about it
  351. # [19:22] <@eeejay> aaronlev, it is on monotonous.org, i think i should move it to github along with the code
  352. # [19:22] <@aaronlev> so far all i've done is clone the speclenium souce tree
  353. # [19:23] <@eeejay> aaronlev, may be easier to download zip files i made for it
  354. # [19:23] <@eeejay> aaronlev, give me 10 minutes...
  355. # [19:23] <@aaronlev> no rush
  356. # [19:25] <@eeejay> http://www.monotonous.org/specular/
  357. # [19:26] <@aaronlev> if install the standalone package can i direct it to use my cloned source tree?
  358. # [19:29] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I very much look forward to the data! Am really curious how much of which screen reader on Windows we'll get!
  359. # [19:32] <@aaronlev> MarcoZ: what do you like to use for testing tools for inspecting accessibility?
  360. # [19:32] <@aaronlev> MarcoZ: for ia2
  361. # [19:34] <@askalski> davidb, what is telemetry? you mean automatic user-counting using some internal firefox-subsystem?
  362. # [19:34] * Quits: @hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP) (Input/output error)
  363. # [19:35] <@MarcoZ> aaronlev: AccProbe.
  364. # [19:36] <@MarcoZ> davidb: What is this "new tab page" feature?
  365. # [19:36] <@davidb> oh!
  366. # [19:36] <@davidb> right I starred that to get back to it
  367. # [19:36] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I don't know (yet)
  368. # [19:37] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Ah! I suspect it's something visual.
  369. # [19:37] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So before I start testing this, I'd like a description of the expected behavior or what this thing is meant to do, so I know if all the stuff I need to get is communicated.
  370. # [19:38] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Connection reset by peer)
  371. # [19:38] <@aaronlev> i need accerciser to work on windows
  372. # [19:38] <@MarcoZ> davidb: On another note, can you take a quick look at http://www.luebbe-audio.de ? I am seeing lots of stuff like login forms, error messages etc., in the NVDA virtual buffer, that I *suspect* are hidden, but appear as visible for me anyway.
  373. # [19:38] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  374. # [19:39] <@davidb> ok
  375. # [19:39] <@MarcoZ> davidb: For example, I'm seeing "Die E-Mail Adresse oder das eingegebene Passwort sind nicht korrekt. Bitte geben Sie Ihre E-Mail ", which tells me that the e-mail address or password entered are wrong. i see this right on the front page without having made a login attempt.
  376. # [19:40] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I do not see that.
  377. # [19:41] <@davidb> flush your cache?
  378. # [19:41] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Also happens on a clean profile where I've never visited that site before.
  379. # [19:43] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Also happens in Firefox 9, so it's no regression of bug 591363.
  380. # [19:43] <@davidb> MarcoZ: luebbe-audio redirects me to luebbe.com
  381. # [19:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591363 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, (in)visible state is not always correct?
  382. # [19:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Ah, so you may be seeing the English pages.
  383. # [19:44] <@davidb> no
  384. # [19:44] <@davidb> MarcoZ: does it happen in other browsers?
  385. # [19:45] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Let me check. I'm redirected to http://www.luebbe.de/ by the way.
  386. # [19:45] <@askalski> davidb, ok, I'm digging in
  387. # [19:45] <@davidb> oh sorry yes me too
  388. # [19:45] <@davidb> .de
  389. # [19:47] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Happens in IE, too. Interesting...
  390. # [19:48] <@MarcoZ> OK, anyway I think I'll call it a weekend. See you all on Monday!
  391. # [19:48] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ciao!
  392. # [19:48] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-AD010D75.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Weekend!)
  393. # [19:55] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  394. # [19:55] <@askalski> davidb, you mentioned github, can you tell me more about it?
  395. # [19:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  396. # [19:55] <@davidb> askalski: I bet eeejay could
  397. # [19:55] <@askalski> ah, I should open a new github account and post there the stuff?
  398. # [19:56] <@askalski> any account?
  399. # [19:56] <@davidb> here is my only project https://github.com/dbolter/foo
  400. # [19:56] <@davidb> askalski: just create your own is fine
  401. # [19:56] <@askalski> ok
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  405. # [19:57] * richardschwerdtfeger_ is now known as richardschwerdtfeger
  406. # [19:59] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: do you guys still need xforms?
  407. # [20:00] <richardschwerdtfeger> no
  408. # [20:00] <richardschwerdtfeger> not that I am aware of
  409. # [20:00] <richardschwerdtfeger> i can ask someone in our forms group
  410. # [20:00] <@davidb> please and thanks!
  411. # [20:02] <@hub> we have a git mirror of mozilla-central on github
  412. # [20:02] <@davidb> yeah
  413. # [20:02] <@davidb> hub: askalski has some scripts he wants to store somewhere safe
  414. # [20:03] <@hub> ah
  415. # [20:03] <@hub> I thought he wanted the mozilla source tree in git ;-)
  416. # [20:03] <@askalski> hub, thanks, I got familiar with hg
  417. # [20:05] <@aaronlev> rm -rf xforms
  418. # [20:05] <@davidb> aaronlev: r+
  419. # [20:08] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd prefer getting rid of xforms if we can convince the content people to rm there support too
  420. # [20:08] <@tbsaunde> hub: there is one of those too
  421. # [20:08] <@tbsaunde> (mozilla-central clone in git)
  422. # [20:08] <@hub> tbsaunde: which is what I said. there is a mirror on github
  423. # [20:09] <@tbsaunde> hub: oh, I thought you meant that as "oh, there is, great!"
  424. # [20:10] <@hub> askalski: I'm familiar with hg, subversion and cvs, and yet I prefer git :-)
  425. # [20:11] * Quits: richardschwerdtfeger (richardsch@moz-130F1494.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: richardschwerdtfeger)
  426. # [20:11] <@askalski> hub, the problem is I am not yet enough familiar with Firefox code :), so however git is high on the wish-list, it must wait
  427. # [20:18] <@tbsaunde> davidb: usually people don't mark bugs as fixed until they get merged to m-c
  428. # [20:18] <@askalski> davidb, should I add license information to the code I post on github, and should I comment it, or don't waste time on it? the code style is "fast and dirty python"
  429. # [20:19] <@davidb> tbsaunde: thanks for the reminder!
  430. # [20:20] <@davidb> askalski: good question, i wouldn't normally add a license for scripts like that
  431. # [20:20] <@davidb> hub: thoughts on license? ^
  432. # [20:21] <@askalski> davidb, I think it's mozilla's property, so I guess yes
  433. # [20:21] <@hub> davidb: I would default to MPL2
  434. # [20:21] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 678965 from RESOLVED to REOPENED.
  435. # [20:21] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cleared the Resolution 'FIXED' from bug 678965.
  436. # [20:21] <@davidb> yeah MPL2 is great
  437. # [20:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678965 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, REOP, telemetry for injected screen reader dll's
  438. # [20:21] <@tbsaunde> well, technically I think you are supposed to release it with something atleast less restrictive than mpl2
  439. # [20:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: so MPL2 is no good?
  440. # [20:22] * @tbsaunde would probably make it bsd or public domain though
  441. # [20:22] <@davidb> yeah i was thinking public domain
  442. # [20:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no its fine
  443. # [20:22] <@tbsaunde> I mean mpl2 compatible
  444. # [20:22] <@davidb> ah ok
  445. # [20:22] * @tbsaunde tired
  446. # [20:23] <@davidb> askalski: as far as i'm concerned MPL2 is fine
  447. # [20:24] <@eeejay> askalski, what are you working on? reading the backlog didn't help me understand
  448. # [20:24] <@davidb> askalski: anything more restrictive is not fine
  449. # [20:25] <@davidb> askalski: http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/headers/
  450. # [20:26] <@askalski> eeejay, while working on 717507 and 716644 I created (one is working, second one lacks one argument) scripts that generate defined macros. over time the discussion arose whether these changes are really desired or not. we decided to stop working on them right now, and I thought that the supporting code I wrote should be shared.
  451. # [20:26] <@eeejay> askalski, cool, thanks :)
  452. # [20:29] <@hub> public domain isn't valid outside the US
  453. # [20:29] <@davidb> hub: didn't you know? there is nothing outside the US.
  454. # [20:29] <@hub> davidb: like there is nothing in Canada out of Toronto. I got the memo
  455. # [20:29] <@davidb> right
  456. # [20:31] <@hub> also there is only one Hockey team in Canada. The Toronto Maple Leafs
  457. # [20:31] <@hub> ;-)
  458. # [20:32] <@davidb> this is true.
  459. # [20:42] * Joins: surkov (surkov@moz-D9A1E2B0.static.mundo-r.com)
  460. # [20:42] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  461. # [20:44] <@hub> davidb: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703198 should we actually make sure this can be addressed in QA?
  462. # [20:44] <@firebot> Bug 703198 nor, --, mozilla11, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, JAWS doesn't announce combobox navigation in collapsed combobox
  463. # [20:44] <@hub> davidb: Anthony is sitting right behind me :-)
  464. # [20:45] <@davidb> hmmmm
  465. # [20:45] <@davidb> normally we rely on MarcoZ for this
  466. # [20:45] <@davidb> hub: MarcoZ wears a QA hat.
  467. # [20:46] <@davidb> it would be great to have one more person in QA set up for this
  468. # [20:46] <@davidb> but I don't know what is on Anthony's plate
  469. # [20:46] <@hub> davidb: maybe they should coordinate
  470. # [20:46] <@hub> I think
  471. # [20:47] <@davidb> hub: sounds right
  472. # [20:51] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 589549 on bug 698823.
  473. # [20:51] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590272 on bug 698823.
  474. # [20:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698823 nor, --, mozilla10, eitan, NEW, Introduce virtual cursor/soft focus functionality to a11y API
  475. # [20:51] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: thanks for that
  476. # [20:51] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, you mean it?
  477. # [20:52] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: yes, I'm really lade that's surkov 'v problem now
  478. # [20:52] <@eeejay> pfff
  479. # [20:52] * @tbsaunde isn't smart enough to evaluate the correctness of that, and even if I was I still can't honestly say I believe we should fix the bug
  480. # [20:53] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 585841 on bug 698823.
  481. # [20:53] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590273 on bug 698823.
  482. # [20:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, exciting fact if I move the same check to the AccTextChangeEvent constructor it nolonger works
  483. # [20:54] * @tbsaunde very confused
  484. # [20:54] <@surkov> hm because of states?
  485. # [20:54] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, i have only reassigned reviews when uploading new patch revisions, if you want i could i could move it all over to surkov
  486. # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: up to you
  487. # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I don't understand your question
  488. # [20:55] <@surkov> I mean your states check probably fails
  489. # [20:56] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that would be the reasonable explanation, yes
  490. # [20:56] <@tbsaunde> but why does that change effect the states
  491. # [20:56] <@surkov> maybe something with layout, it didn't finish all stuffs
  492. # [20:57] <@surkov> hard to say without investigation
  493. # [20:57] <@tbsaunde> I guess, but I believe even if I sit with the thing focused for a second it still works that way
  494. # [20:58] <@tbsaunde> so, I'm not really capable of investigating now, and I'm not really sure I'll have the time
  495. # [21:02] * Joins: webben (benjamin@moz-BA505DDD.static.cloud-ips.com)
  496. # [21:05] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590277 on bug 698823.
  497. # [21:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698823 nor, --, mozilla10, eitan, NEW, Introduce virtual cursor/soft focus functionality to a11y API
  498. # [21:05] <@tbsaunde> surkov ^
  499. # [21:05] <@surkov> give up your education :)
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  501. # [21:05] <@tbsaunde> surkov: wait 4 months :)
  502. # [21:06] <@surkov> sure :)(
  503. # [21:06] <@tbsaunde> ;p
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  509. # [21:31] <@askalski> to whom it may concern: make mochitest a11y acts differently on my home machine and virtualized env
  510. # [21:31] <@askalski> visually different
  511. # [21:31] <@askalski> I'll try to trace down why's that
  512. # [21:32] <@davidb> what is different?
  513. # [21:32] <@askalski> first, it opened more than one tab, the first one is unused
  514. # [21:33] <@askalski> second, it downloads some stuff
  515. # [21:33] <@askalski> in the second tab
  516. # [21:33] <@davidb> same mozconfig?
  517. # [21:33] <@askalski> testing extensions I guess, but I don't remeber it did that on my own hardware
  518. # [21:33] <@askalski> it's a symlink
  519. # [21:33] <@davidb> hrm
  520. # [21:33] <@askalski> shared directory and symlink, 1:1 same paths
  521. # [21:33] <@askalski> otherwise it didn't want to start
  522. # [21:34] <@askalski> so the build is made in normal machine, I just run the tests in vbox on the compilation's output
  523. # [21:35] <@askalski> davidb, false alarm
  524. # [21:35] <@askalski> I messed the command :/
  525. # [21:36] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from roc@ocallahan.org for attachment 590300 on bug 717505.
  526. # [21:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717505 cri, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Crash [@ nsAccessible::VisibilityState] when closing a tab, depending on when accessibility was enab
  527. # [21:36] <@davidb> askalski: good.
  528. # [21:37] <@askalski> davidb, yep, now it looks the same.
  529. # [21:37] <@askalski> I'll wait for the results
  530. # [21:39] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-D9A1E2B0.static.mundo-r.com) (Quit: surkov)
  531. # [21:40] <@tbsaunde> davidb: do you know why a accessible wouldn't have a frame but isn't defunct?
  532. # [21:40] <@davidb> tbsaunde: no.
  533. # [21:42] <@hub> davidb: newegg is way cheaper than canadaram
  534. # [21:42] <@davidb> ok
  535. # [21:43] <@hub> with tax and shipping, it was $62
  536. # [21:43] <@hub> vs $83 pre-tax&shipping
  537. # [21:43] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I think you should understand that before just adding null checks
  538. # [21:43] <@tbsaunde> until we don't crash
  539. # [21:44] <@davidb> tbsaunde: do we have a defunct check?
  540. # [21:44] <@davidb> one sec
  541. # [21:45] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ok so we want to know how the frame goes bad between State's defunct check and this line
  542. # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> davidb: iirc this happens while fireing events, but yes there is a IsDefunct() check in State()
  543. # [21:46] <@davidb> yes i'm commenting on that in the bug now
  544. # [21:50] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ok I've asked him. Glad you thought of that.
  545. # [21:51] <@tbsaunde> davidb: couldn't you just walk through State() in your debugger, and call GetFrame() every so often?
  546. # [21:51] <@davidb> tbsaunde: I haven't recreated the bug.
  547. # [21:51] <@tbsaunde> davidb: to find out where it happens
  548. # [21:51] <@davidb> I think it is timing related
  549. # [21:51] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oh, yeah, sorry
  550. # [21:51] <@davidb> np
  551. # [21:54] <@tbsaunde> clown: dom inspector allows you to see the gecko a11y tree
  552. # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> clown: re bug 713010)
  553. # [21:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713010 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Element marked with ARIA role='button' and aria-pressed attribute not exposed as a toggle button
  554. # [21:55] <clown> hi tbsaunde. how do I invoke it?
  555. # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> clown: its an extension you install
  556. # [21:56] <clown> tbsaunde: url?
  557. # [21:56] <@tbsaunde> then I'm not exactly sure, but I think you do tools -> webdev -> inspector or some such and then click for the accessible view
  558. # [21:56] <clown> or something to google for?
  559. # [21:56] <@tbsaunde> not off hand :(
  560. # [21:56] <clown> tbsaunde: you're just trying to torture me… ;-)
  561. # [21:56] <@tbsaunde> I'd expect google for dom inspector is enough
  562. # [21:56] <@hub> add-ons have it
  563. # [21:57] <@tbsaunde> :p
  564. # [21:57] <@hub> amo
  565. # [21:58] <@tbsaunde> clown: its not a big deal, I'm pretty sure that accerciser is holding on too an accessible or something and you aren't seeing that we recreated the accessible
  566. # [21:58] <@tbsaunde> (I'm not really sure why we always recreate the accessible in all cases)
  567. # [21:58] <clown> well, in this case (due to "bad" markup), maybe you have to, since the role changes.
  568. # [21:59] <@tbsaunde> yes, I mean I'm not really sure why we force recreation for all role changes
  569. # [21:59] <clown> dunno. maybe because if you change the role, potentially a lot of other things change as well?
  570. # [22:00] <@tbsaunde> well, other things certainly can, so it might just be its easier to always do it
  571. # [22:00] <clown> right
  572. # [22:02] <clown> tbsaunde, I found this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/dom-inspector-6622/
  573. # [22:02] <clown> is that it?
  574. # [22:02] <@tbsaunde> clown: yes
  575. # [22:03] <clown> tbsaunde: thanks (you to hub)
  576. # [22:03] <clown> "too"
  577. # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> np
  578. # [22:04] <@askalski> davidb, wow, virtualized, all test passed, even the one that never got through on ubuntu 11.04
  579. # [22:04] <@tbsaunde> askalski: weird *shrug*
  580. # [22:04] <@askalski> I'll restart locally
  581. # [22:04] <@askalski> and diff which one is to blame
  582. # [22:04] <@askalski> ok?
  583. # [22:05] <@davidb> good
  584. # [22:08] <clown> tbsaunde: ran DOM Inspector on FF/Linux, and indeed it does switch to a toggle. So, looks like bug (feature?) in accerciser.
  585. # [22:09] <clown> I'll contact javier sometime next week, I guess.
  586. # [22:09] <@tbsaunde> ok, sounds good, tanks
  587. # [22:10] <clown> bazookas
  588. # [22:11] <@tbsaunde> clown: it would be interesting to know what happens if you start accerciser after cicking the button
  589. # [22:14] <clown> nice intuition tbsaunde: if I restart accerciser and navigate back to the button, it's now a toggle.
  590. # [22:15] <clown> shouldn't have to restart to see that, though
  591. # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> clown: yeah, but that proves something is going weird between accerciser and firefo
  592. # [22:26] <clown> true.
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  595. # [22:46] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  596. # [22:48] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 713010 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  597. # [22:49] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 713010 to WORKSFORME.
  598. # [22:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713010 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Element marked with ARIA role='button' and aria-pressed attribute not exposed as a toggle button
  599. # [22:49] <clown> davidb: you're welcome!
  600. # [22:49] <@davidb> :)
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  602. # [22:50] <@askalski> davidb, 15299 ERROR TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/test_childAtPoint.xul | Wrong deepest child accessible [['treecol@id="col2" node', address: 0x2ba01a9cd0d0, role: columnheader, name: 'column 2', address: 0x2ba01a95d430]] at the point (162, 1) of accessible [[ 'tree@id="tree" node', address: 0x2ba01a9ccf20 ]] - got [xpconnect wrapped (nsISupports, nsIAccessible, nsIAccessNode) @ 0x2ba01b586da0 (native @
  603. # [22:50] <@askalski> 0x2ba01a95cf20)], expected [xpconnect wrapped (nsISupports, nsIAccessible, nsIAccessNode) @ 0x2ba01b586f60 (native @ 0x2ba01a95d430)]
  604. # [22:50] <@askalski> this is the one that differs
  605. # [22:51] <@davidb> interesting
  606. # [22:51] <@askalski> I can re-try this test on virtualized ubuntu 11.04 to check if that's version related
  607. # [22:51] <@davidb> that might happen if something overlaps something else (i think)
  608. # [22:51] <@askalski> big fonts?
  609. # [22:51] <@davidb> possible
  610. # [22:51] <@askalski> hmm
  611. # [22:51] <@davidb> it changes layout
  612. # [22:51] <@askalski> I'll think about it
  613. # [22:51] <@davidb> ok
  614. # [22:52] <@askalski> now I need to go, it's 11 pm :)
  615. # [22:52] <@askalski> amost
  616. # [22:52] <@askalski> so, I got working test environment! hurray!
  617. # [22:52] <@askalski> the win of today
  618. # [22:52] <@askalski> ok, I am going
  619. # [22:52] <@askalski> bye
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  629. # [23:27] <@firebot> jboriss@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 607896 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
  630. # [23:27] * Quits: @aaronlev (aaronlev@moz-9058091D.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: aaronlev)
  631. # [23:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607896 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The space key should scroll to top when it's at the bottom
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  635. # [23:44] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 590095 on bug 712923.
  636. # [23:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
  637. # [23:45] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590356 on bug 712923.
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  641. # Session Close: Sat Jan 21 00:00:01 2012

The end :)