/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-01-20 / end
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- # Session Start: Fri Jan 20 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [00:17] <satdav> hi guys
- # [00:17] <satdav> I was wondering is their a way to get a screen reader intergrated to firefox
- # [00:20] <@hub> satdav: which platform?
- # [00:24] <satdav> windows
- # [00:39] <satdav> hub, windows i am on
- # [00:40] <@hub> satdav: it works. NVDA works with Firefox. and also others
- # [00:40] <satdav> cool
- # [00:40] <satdav> I am working with sumo amdmins to see what we can prove the sumo site
- # [00:40] <satdav> to make it more user accessable
- # [00:54] <satdav> has anyone tried any of the firefox addons
- # [00:54] <satdav> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=screen+reader&appver=9.0.1&platform=windows
- # [00:54] <satdav> for screen reader
- # [00:59] <@hub> you shouldn't need an addon
- # [00:59] <@hub> but I don't know Windows
- # [01:00] <@hub> what you need is a screen reader like http://www.nvda-project.org/
- # [01:00] <@hub> and it will talk to Firefox
- # [01:00] <@hub> (on Windows)
- # [01:05] <satdav> yes
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- # [01:22] <@eeejay> satdav, there used to be firevox, but it is not maintained anymore. Your best bet is to use a platform screen reader like nvda on windows, orca on linux, or (soon!) voiceover on mac
- # [01:22] <satdav> cool
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- # Session Start: Fri Jan 20 03:19:28 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [03:35] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone" | release schedule: http://mzl.la/LNc0W'
- # [03:35] * Set by davidb on Thu Dec 08 15:12:17
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- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [04:27] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone" | release schedule: http://mzl.la/LNc0W'
- # [04:27] * Set by davidb on Thu Dec 08 15:12:17
- # [05:34] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590095 on bug 712923.
- # [05:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
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- # [12:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 289006 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [12:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 289006 to WORKSFORME.
- # [12:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289006 nor, --, ---, Louie.Zhao, RESO WORKSFORME, Support required and invalid states (leaving open for ATK support)
- # [12:27] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 490757 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [12:28] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 490757 to WONTFIX.
- # [12:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=490757 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, make progressmeter to implement interfaces exposing value and max properties
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- # [13:43] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 719754 filed by dao@mozilla.com.
- # [13:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719754 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Rewrite a11y tests that put <tabbrowser> in random XUL documents and expect it to work
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- # [14:02] <@tbsaunde|afk> jhk: so, I was pretty out of it yesterday :( how are you doing debugging what's wrong with the patch?
- # [14:02] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
- # [14:05] <@tbsaunde> jhk: did you want me to do anything?
- # [14:06] <jhk> tbsaunde: yes I am unaware of ATK thing.
- # [14:10] <jhk> i mean implementation...:(
- # [14:11] <@tbsaunde> jhk: so, you saw the comment in the gnome bug about the accessible have unknown role etc?
- # [14:12] <jhk> looking again...
- # [14:13] <@tbsaunde> that's where I'd start
- # [14:14] <@tbsaunde> jhk: so, you have a broken accessible right? what questions do you have?
- # [14:14] <@tbsaunde> questions about the state of the world I mean, that will help you understand what has gone wrong
- # [14:15] <jhk> yes
- # [14:15] <jhk> got it
- # [14:16] <@tbsaunde> you can dump questions in channel, I may be able to help you get answers
- # [14:26] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 589850 on bug 717507.
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- # [14:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717507 nor, --, ---, askalski, NEW, expandoify states
- # [14:26] <jhk> tbsaunde: ok it stuck because of it returns unknown role? where it returns unknown role(in implementation).?
- # [14:28] <@tbsaunde> jhk: getRoleCB in atk/nsAccessibleWrap.cpp
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- # [14:32] <@firebot> a2414578@nepwk.com changed the Component on bug 719761 from Menus to Keyboard Navigation.
- # [14:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719761 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Can't navigate to <splitmenu> menuitems in App Button menu using keyboard
- # [14:34] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590175 on bug 686909.
- # [14:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686909 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The system suffix is for system generated events only
- # [14:45] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(trev.saunders@gma il.com) for attachment 589478 on bug 718990.
- # [14:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718990 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Atk-based plugins to slot into our a11y tree stucks orca in some flash web pages.
- # [14:51] <@tbsaunde> jhk: so, if you ahve <div role="blah">bar</div> in the DOM
- # [14:51] <@tbsaunde> we create an accessible for the div
- # [14:52] <@tbsaunde> see see nsAccessibilityService::CreateFoo() methods
- # [14:53] <@tbsaunde> often those are called from layout but they can be called in other ways
- # [14:53] <@tbsaunde> atk is the thing that bridges between our code and accessibility stuff on linux
- # [14:54] <@tbsaunde> so the atk role is in principal the same as our role but what atk uses
- # [14:55] <@tbsaunde> jhk: that answer your questions?
- # [14:56] <jhk> yes. and aPresShell and content?
- # [14:57] <@tbsaunde> what about them? they're args to the Create function that get stored in accessibles
- # [14:57] <@tbsaunde> so that when you call something like Role() or State() on an accessible it can find out what to return from the DOM
- # [14:58] <@tbsaunde> and layout and other places
- # [14:58] <jhk> ok. now its clear. thanks:)
- # [14:59] <@tbsaunde> np
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- # [15:16] <Stevef> afternoon all
- # [15:17] <@tbsaunde> morning Stevef
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- # [15:18] <Stevef> MarcoZ: or anyone I have probably asked this before, but why is HTML5 section element mapped to IA2 paragraph role rather than section role?
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- # [15:24] <@davidb> hey hey
- # [15:24] * @davidb hunts caffeine
- # [15:26] <Stevef> davidb: morning a question for you "I have probably asked this before, but why is HTML5 section element mapped to IA2 paragraph role rather than section role?"
- # [15:27] <Stevef> looking at the IA2 role definitions does not seem correct as a paragraph
- # [15:33] <@davidb> back
- # [15:33] <@davidb> Stevef: I don't recall the thinking/discussion off hand.
- # [15:34] <Stevef> davidb:np will look for bug and comment
- # [15:34] <@davidb> thanks
- # [15:34] <Stevef> just doing some testing for html5accessibility and came across it
- # [15:34] <@davidb> cool
- # [15:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: did you consider not usingthe second enum for the telemetry patch?
- # [15:37] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i did.
- # [15:37] <@davidb> consider that
- # [15:38] <@davidb> tbsaunde: can talk in 30 minutes
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- # [15:38] <@tbsaunde> ok
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- # [16:09] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah so, I don't really like have two sets of similar data, but at the same time, I feel like they can grow apart. Not sure though.
- # [16:10] <@davidb> I was aiming for clarity.
- # [16:14] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok
- # [16:15] <@tbsaunde> I guess its fine
- # [16:15] <@tbsaunde> and right now I'd expect Alex will disagree whatever I say :p so what the helk r=me
- # [16:17] <@davidb> hahah
- # [16:17] <@davidb> sounds like i need to check bugmail
- # [16:18] <@davidb> but I'm never shocked when good developers don't agree
- # [16:20] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 589872 on bug 678965.
- # [16:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678965 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, telemetry for injected screen reader dll's
- # [16:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: in my local copy i added the cobra screen reader.
- # [16:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd expect you can do that sainly
- # [16:23] * @davidb cackles
- # [16:24] <@tbsaunde> but if you want to show me a pastebin or something I won't object ;)
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- # [16:53] <@davidb> tbsaunde: in objective c what does "-(id)value" translate to in C++?
- # [16:53] <@davidb> oh
- # [16:55] <@davidb> (id) is a reference to an unknown objective-c class
- # [16:55] <@davidb> not quite like void*
- # [16:55] <@davidb> interesting
- # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> davidb: got it? I tend to read it as type funcName
- # [16:55] <@davidb> yep
- # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> as far as I can see objective see should be named objectionable C
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- # [16:58] <@firebot> neil@httl.net granted superreview for attachment 588980 on bug 698823.
- # [16:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698823 nor, --, mozilla10, eitan, NEW, Introduce virtual cursor/soft focus functionality to a11y API
- # [16:58] <@tbsaunde> jhk: how is the debugging?
- # [17:01] <jhk> Trying....not sure this school work let me do this?:(
- # [17:01] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com granted review for attachment 589979 on bug 712927.
- # [17:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712927 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] VoiceOver often repeats the document title as if it were a groupbox/fieldset heading/legend
- # [17:02] <@tbsaunde> jhk: so, what do you know so far
- # [17:03] <@tbsaunde> have you found the accessible with unknown role?
- # [17:03] <@tbsaunde> in a debugger I mean
- # [17:04] <jhk> not tried with gdb yet.
- # [17:05] <jhk> I will tell you when I have some thing.
- # [17:05] <@tbsaunde> jhk: I'd strongly recommend using a debugger here
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- # [17:28] <@aaronlev> Morning all
- # [17:29] <@davidb> heyo
- # [17:30] <@MarcoZ> Hi aaronlev!
- # [17:30] <@davidb> oh, no inlining in objective-C. interesting
- # [17:31] <@davidb> hub: thanks for answering my comments.
- # [17:31] <@hub> davidb: no inlining of Objective-C method
- # [17:31] * @davidb nods
- # [17:32] <@tbsaunde> davidb: as far as I can tell they virtually dispatch everything
- # [17:32] <@hub> yep
- # [17:32] <@hub> and you can override at runtime
- # [17:32] <@hub> the dispatch is done by name, not by vtable offset
- # [17:32] <@davidb> oh i like that
- # [17:32] <@davidb> override at runtime
- # [17:32] <@davidb> how do you do that?
- # [17:33] <@hub> you can maniplate the "selectors"
- # [17:33] <@hub> which is the function pointers
- # [17:33] <@davidb> is this blessed?
- # [17:33] <@tbsaunde> <@tbsaunde> as far as I can see objective see should be named objectionable C
- # [17:33] <@davidb> hahaha
- # [17:33] <@hub> davidb: this is part of the language
- # [17:33] <@davidb> well don't listen to me… i love js
- # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> LOL
- # [17:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: to be far apparently xpconnect generates vtables
- # [17:34] <@davidb> i dare say
- # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> hub: Did you see surkov's question about embedded characters in bug 712923?
- # [17:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
- # [17:34] <@davidb> ok i need to time my patch landing with when Alex is asleep.
- # [17:34] <@tbsaunde> so, you can do it in C++ if you know something about the compiler
- # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Why is that?
- # [17:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah
- # [17:34] <@davidb> MarcoZ: kidding.
- # [17:35] <@MarcoZ> :D
- # [17:35] <@hub> MarcoZ: I read it. haven't answered it.
- # [17:35] <@MarcoZ> hub: Yeah that's a valid point he has there. This is the reason for the request to flatten the tree, since links are really represented as these embedded characters in the text interface.
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- # [17:54] <@askalski> hi everyone
- # [17:55] <@davidb> heyo
- # [17:56] <@askalski> I have created a filter on e-mail to get more responsive, I missed some important info yesterday
- # [17:58] <@firebot> faulkner.steve@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 719852 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
- # [17:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719852 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, accessibility API mapping for section element
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- # [17:59] <Stevef> davidb: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719852
- # [17:59] <Stevef> tell me ifyou need more details
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- # [18:01] <@hub> davidb: next time I need RAM for the laptop (ie not in a while), can I just order myself and expense it?
- # [18:02] <@hub> davidb: 'cause they still haven't ordered it
- # [18:02] <@hub> and it took me less than a week to get some for the iMac
- # [18:02] <@hub> (home machine0
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- # [18:10] <@davidb> hub: what!?
- # [18:10] <@davidb> hub: bug #?
- # [18:11] * @davidb steps away
- # [18:11] <@hub> 713956
- # [18:11] <@hub> you are CC on it
- # [18:14] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 713010 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
- # [18:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713010 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Element marked with ARIA role='button' and aria-pressed attribute not exposed as a toggle button
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- # [18:21] <@aaronlev> how does one view accessibility properties in DOM inspector?
- # [18:27] <@aaronlev> I think it's different than "Inspect" that I'm seeing here
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- # [18:29] <@aaronlev> yep, got it
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- # [18:31] <@davidb> aaronlev: yeah, you sort of have to jiggle it
- # [18:31] <@davidb> choose the a11y tree view, twice
- # [18:34] <@hub> for some reason my DOM Inspector is in French
- # [18:34] <@hub> I don't know why
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- # [18:46] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 678965 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [18:46] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 678965 to FIXED.
- # [18:46] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 678965 from --- to mozilla12.
- # [18:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678965 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, telemetry for injected screen reader dll's
- # [18:48] <@davidb> hub: sounds like a bug
- # [18:48] <@hub> yeah it is coincide with when I tried to set a different language in firefox and failed
- # [18:51] <@davidb> oh so your profile is mangled?
- # [18:51] <@aaronlev> hi eeejay
- # [18:51] <@aaronlev> !seen eeejay
- # [18:51] <@firebot> eeejay was last seen 17 hours, 29 minutes and 41 seconds ago, saying 'satdav, there used to be firevox, but it is not maintained anymore. Your best bet is to use a platform screen reader like nvda on windows, orca on linux, or (soon!) voiceover on mac'
- # [18:51] <@firebot> in #accessibility.
- # [18:52] <@davidb> MarcoZ: finally, we'll find out some juicy data about readers :)
- # [19:03] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@89D4A401.5BCEC6DB.DA78B690.IP) (Ping timeout)
- # [19:04] <@eeejay> morning
- # [19:04] <@eeejay> i want to say that the irregular weather conditions made me have a late start
- # [19:04] <@eeejay> aaronlev, hey
- # [19:05] <@askalski> davidb, in nsAccessibilityServeice.h I found lists of EVENTs and RELATIONs, are these re-defined elsewhere, so I could wrap them in macro?
- # [19:05] <@askalski> *should
- # [19:05] <@askalski> I am just asking is there some similar work as the bugs I am working on
- # [19:07] <@davidb> hi eeejay
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- # [19:07] <@davidb> hi askalski
- # [19:07] <@davidb> askalski: I think you need to get surkov on board first
- # [19:08] <@askalski> davidb, ok, I am reading his comments under the bugs right now trying to figure out whether to continue or not
- # [19:08] <@davidb> askalski: it is great that you are noticing these other places in the code.
- # [19:09] <@davidb> askalski: I think you should bookmark it and work on some other things for now
- # [19:10] <@davidb> unfortunate, but it happens
- # [19:11] <@aaronlev> eeejay: i download the source for speclenium on windows
- # [19:12] <@aaronlev> planning to use it
- # [19:12] <@eeejay> uh oh
- # [19:12] <@eeejay> cool
- # [19:12] <@aaronlev> looking at the dependencies
- # [19:12] <@askalski> davidb, no problem. I am watching the discussion, just let me know once you find consensus. So I should working on something else than 716644 and 717507, right?
- # [19:13] <@aaronlev> would you be willing to walk me through getting it running from source?
- # [19:13] <@davidb> aaronlev: I haven't used it in 4 years
- # [19:13] <@davidb> askalski: right
- # [19:14] <@davidb> oh!
- # [19:14] <@davidb> i thought you said selenium
- # [19:14] <@askalski> davidb, ok, I'll look for some other patch then, unless you have some suggestions
- # [19:14] <@davidb> aaronlev: ^
- # [19:14] <@davidb> askalski: a smaller one is bug 717506
- # [19:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717506 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, telemetry for xforms use
- # [19:14] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what do you think? (bug for askalski) ^
- # [19:15] <@davidb> oh you suggest it in the bug :)
- # [19:15] <@davidb> askalski: sound good?
- # [19:16] <@askalski> davidb, btw, while working on these two previous one, I have produced some side code in python, it might be reused some day. I can upload it somewhere. Just so you know the changes can be generated.
- # [19:16] <@davidb> askalski: sure, maybe put it on a github account for now?
- # [19:17] <@eeejay> aaronlev, sure, i'll try. haven't tried it in a while
- # [19:18] <@askalski> davidb, I have a phone call, be back with you in 5 mins
- # [19:18] <@eeejay> aaronlev, i think selenium might be way too out of sync to use now
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- # [19:18] <@davidb> eeejay: selenium or speclenium?
- # [19:18] <@eeejay> davidb, speclenium depends on selenium
- # [19:18] <@davidb> ahhh ok
- # [19:20] <@davidb> aside: Adam Goucher hangs with some Mozillians.
- # [19:21] <@aaronlev> eeejay: i need to make it work, i guess
- # [19:21] <@eeejay> aaronlev, let me dig up the page i wrote about it
- # [19:22] <@eeejay> aaronlev, it is on monotonous.org, i think i should move it to github along with the code
- # [19:22] <@aaronlev> so far all i've done is clone the speclenium souce tree
- # [19:23] <@eeejay> aaronlev, may be easier to download zip files i made for it
- # [19:23] <@eeejay> aaronlev, give me 10 minutes...
- # [19:23] <@aaronlev> no rush
- # [19:25] <@eeejay> http://www.monotonous.org/specular/
- # [19:26] <@aaronlev> if install the standalone package can i direct it to use my cloned source tree?
- # [19:29] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I very much look forward to the data! Am really curious how much of which screen reader on Windows we'll get!
- # [19:32] <@aaronlev> MarcoZ: what do you like to use for testing tools for inspecting accessibility?
- # [19:32] <@aaronlev> MarcoZ: for ia2
- # [19:34] <@askalski> davidb, what is telemetry? you mean automatic user-counting using some internal firefox-subsystem?
- # [19:34] * Quits: @hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP) (Input/output error)
- # [19:35] <@MarcoZ> aaronlev: AccProbe.
- # [19:36] <@MarcoZ> davidb: What is this "new tab page" feature?
- # [19:36] <@davidb> oh!
- # [19:36] <@davidb> right I starred that to get back to it
- # [19:36] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I don't know (yet)
- # [19:37] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Ah! I suspect it's something visual.
- # [19:37] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So before I start testing this, I'd like a description of the expected behavior or what this thing is meant to do, so I know if all the stuff I need to get is communicated.
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- # [19:38] <@aaronlev> i need accerciser to work on windows
- # [19:38] <@MarcoZ> davidb: On another note, can you take a quick look at http://www.luebbe-audio.de ? I am seeing lots of stuff like login forms, error messages etc., in the NVDA virtual buffer, that I *suspect* are hidden, but appear as visible for me anyway.
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- # [19:39] <@davidb> ok
- # [19:39] <@MarcoZ> davidb: For example, I'm seeing "Die E-Mail Adresse oder das eingegebene Passwort sind nicht korrekt. Bitte geben Sie Ihre E-Mail ", which tells me that the e-mail address or password entered are wrong. i see this right on the front page without having made a login attempt.
- # [19:40] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I do not see that.
- # [19:41] <@davidb> flush your cache?
- # [19:41] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Also happens on a clean profile where I've never visited that site before.
- # [19:43] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Also happens in Firefox 9, so it's no regression of bug 591363.
- # [19:43] <@davidb> MarcoZ: luebbe-audio redirects me to luebbe.com
- # [19:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591363 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, (in)visible state is not always correct?
- # [19:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Ah, so you may be seeing the English pages.
- # [19:44] <@davidb> no
- # [19:44] <@davidb> MarcoZ: does it happen in other browsers?
- # [19:45] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Let me check. I'm redirected to http://www.luebbe.de/ by the way.
- # [19:45] <@askalski> davidb, ok, I'm digging in
- # [19:45] <@davidb> oh sorry yes me too
- # [19:45] <@davidb> .de
- # [19:47] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Happens in IE, too. Interesting...
- # [19:48] <@MarcoZ> OK, anyway I think I'll call it a weekend. See you all on Monday!
- # [19:48] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ciao!
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- # [19:55] <@askalski> davidb, you mentioned github, can you tell me more about it?
- # [19:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
- # [19:55] <@davidb> askalski: I bet eeejay could
- # [19:55] <@askalski> ah, I should open a new github account and post there the stuff?
- # [19:56] <@askalski> any account?
- # [19:56] <@davidb> here is my only project https://github.com/dbolter/foo
- # [19:56] <@davidb> askalski: just create your own is fine
- # [19:56] <@askalski> ok
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- # [19:59] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: do you guys still need xforms?
- # [20:00] <richardschwerdtfeger> no
- # [20:00] <richardschwerdtfeger> not that I am aware of
- # [20:00] <richardschwerdtfeger> i can ask someone in our forms group
- # [20:00] <@davidb> please and thanks!
- # [20:02] <@hub> we have a git mirror of mozilla-central on github
- # [20:02] <@davidb> yeah
- # [20:02] <@davidb> hub: askalski has some scripts he wants to store somewhere safe
- # [20:03] <@hub> ah
- # [20:03] <@hub> I thought he wanted the mozilla source tree in git ;-)
- # [20:03] <@askalski> hub, thanks, I got familiar with hg
- # [20:05] <@aaronlev> rm -rf xforms
- # [20:05] <@davidb> aaronlev: r+
- # [20:08] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd prefer getting rid of xforms if we can convince the content people to rm there support too
- # [20:08] <@tbsaunde> hub: there is one of those too
- # [20:08] <@tbsaunde> (mozilla-central clone in git)
- # [20:08] <@hub> tbsaunde: which is what I said. there is a mirror on github
- # [20:09] <@tbsaunde> hub: oh, I thought you meant that as "oh, there is, great!"
- # [20:10] <@hub> askalski: I'm familiar with hg, subversion and cvs, and yet I prefer git :-)
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- # [20:11] <@askalski> hub, the problem is I am not yet enough familiar with Firefox code :), so however git is high on the wish-list, it must wait
- # [20:18] <@tbsaunde> davidb: usually people don't mark bugs as fixed until they get merged to m-c
- # [20:18] <@askalski> davidb, should I add license information to the code I post on github, and should I comment it, or don't waste time on it? the code style is "fast and dirty python"
- # [20:19] <@davidb> tbsaunde: thanks for the reminder!
- # [20:20] <@davidb> askalski: good question, i wouldn't normally add a license for scripts like that
- # [20:20] <@davidb> hub: thoughts on license? ^
- # [20:21] <@askalski> davidb, I think it's mozilla's property, so I guess yes
- # [20:21] <@hub> davidb: I would default to MPL2
- # [20:21] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 678965 from RESOLVED to REOPENED.
- # [20:21] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cleared the Resolution 'FIXED' from bug 678965.
- # [20:21] <@davidb> yeah MPL2 is great
- # [20:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678965 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, REOP, telemetry for injected screen reader dll's
- # [20:21] <@tbsaunde> well, technically I think you are supposed to release it with something atleast less restrictive than mpl2
- # [20:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: so MPL2 is no good?
- # [20:22] * @tbsaunde would probably make it bsd or public domain though
- # [20:22] <@davidb> yeah i was thinking public domain
- # [20:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no its fine
- # [20:22] <@tbsaunde> I mean mpl2 compatible
- # [20:22] <@davidb> ah ok
- # [20:22] * @tbsaunde tired
- # [20:23] <@davidb> askalski: as far as i'm concerned MPL2 is fine
- # [20:24] <@eeejay> askalski, what are you working on? reading the backlog didn't help me understand
- # [20:24] <@davidb> askalski: anything more restrictive is not fine
- # [20:25] <@davidb> askalski: http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/headers/
- # [20:26] <@askalski> eeejay, while working on 717507 and 716644 I created (one is working, second one lacks one argument) scripts that generate defined macros. over time the discussion arose whether these changes are really desired or not. we decided to stop working on them right now, and I thought that the supporting code I wrote should be shared.
- # [20:26] <@eeejay> askalski, cool, thanks :)
- # [20:29] <@hub> public domain isn't valid outside the US
- # [20:29] <@davidb> hub: didn't you know? there is nothing outside the US.
- # [20:29] <@hub> davidb: like there is nothing in Canada out of Toronto. I got the memo
- # [20:29] <@davidb> right
- # [20:31] <@hub> also there is only one Hockey team in Canada. The Toronto Maple Leafs
- # [20:31] <@hub> ;-)
- # [20:32] <@davidb> this is true.
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- # [20:44] <@hub> davidb: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=703198 should we actually make sure this can be addressed in QA?
- # [20:44] <@firebot> Bug 703198 nor, --, mozilla11, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, JAWS doesn't announce combobox navigation in collapsed combobox
- # [20:44] <@hub> davidb: Anthony is sitting right behind me :-)
- # [20:45] <@davidb> hmmmm
- # [20:45] <@davidb> normally we rely on MarcoZ for this
- # [20:45] <@davidb> hub: MarcoZ wears a QA hat.
- # [20:46] <@davidb> it would be great to have one more person in QA set up for this
- # [20:46] <@davidb> but I don't know what is on Anthony's plate
- # [20:46] <@hub> davidb: maybe they should coordinate
- # [20:46] <@hub> I think
- # [20:47] <@davidb> hub: sounds right
- # [20:51] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 589549 on bug 698823.
- # [20:51] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590272 on bug 698823.
- # [20:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698823 nor, --, mozilla10, eitan, NEW, Introduce virtual cursor/soft focus functionality to a11y API
- # [20:51] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: thanks for that
- # [20:51] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, you mean it?
- # [20:52] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: yes, I'm really lade that's surkov 'v problem now
- # [20:52] <@eeejay> pfff
- # [20:52] * @tbsaunde isn't smart enough to evaluate the correctness of that, and even if I was I still can't honestly say I believe we should fix the bug
- # [20:53] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 585841 on bug 698823.
- # [20:53] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590273 on bug 698823.
- # [20:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, exciting fact if I move the same check to the AccTextChangeEvent constructor it nolonger works
- # [20:54] * @tbsaunde very confused
- # [20:54] <@surkov> hm because of states?
- # [20:54] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, i have only reassigned reviews when uploading new patch revisions, if you want i could i could move it all over to surkov
- # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: up to you
- # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I don't understand your question
- # [20:55] <@surkov> I mean your states check probably fails
- # [20:56] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that would be the reasonable explanation, yes
- # [20:56] <@tbsaunde> but why does that change effect the states
- # [20:56] <@surkov> maybe something with layout, it didn't finish all stuffs
- # [20:57] <@surkov> hard to say without investigation
- # [20:57] <@tbsaunde> I guess, but I believe even if I sit with the thing focused for a second it still works that way
- # [20:58] <@tbsaunde> so, I'm not really capable of investigating now, and I'm not really sure I'll have the time
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- # [21:05] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590277 on bug 698823.
- # [21:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698823 nor, --, mozilla10, eitan, NEW, Introduce virtual cursor/soft focus functionality to a11y API
- # [21:05] <@tbsaunde> surkov ^
- # [21:05] <@surkov> give up your education :)
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- # [21:05] <@tbsaunde> surkov: wait 4 months :)
- # [21:06] <@surkov> sure :)(
- # [21:06] <@tbsaunde> ;p
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- # [21:31] <@askalski> to whom it may concern: make mochitest a11y acts differently on my home machine and virtualized env
- # [21:31] <@askalski> visually different
- # [21:31] <@askalski> I'll try to trace down why's that
- # [21:32] <@davidb> what is different?
- # [21:32] <@askalski> first, it opened more than one tab, the first one is unused
- # [21:33] <@askalski> second, it downloads some stuff
- # [21:33] <@askalski> in the second tab
- # [21:33] <@davidb> same mozconfig?
- # [21:33] <@askalski> testing extensions I guess, but I don't remeber it did that on my own hardware
- # [21:33] <@askalski> it's a symlink
- # [21:33] <@davidb> hrm
- # [21:33] <@askalski> shared directory and symlink, 1:1 same paths
- # [21:33] <@askalski> otherwise it didn't want to start
- # [21:34] <@askalski> so the build is made in normal machine, I just run the tests in vbox on the compilation's output
- # [21:35] <@askalski> davidb, false alarm
- # [21:35] <@askalski> I messed the command :/
- # [21:36] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from roc@ocallahan.org for attachment 590300 on bug 717505.
- # [21:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717505 cri, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Crash [@ nsAccessible::VisibilityState] when closing a tab, depending on when accessibility was enab
- # [21:36] <@davidb> askalski: good.
- # [21:37] <@askalski> davidb, yep, now it looks the same.
- # [21:37] <@askalski> I'll wait for the results
- # [21:39] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@moz-D9A1E2B0.static.mundo-r.com) (Quit: surkov)
- # [21:40] <@tbsaunde> davidb: do you know why a accessible wouldn't have a frame but isn't defunct?
- # [21:40] <@davidb> tbsaunde: no.
- # [21:42] <@hub> davidb: newegg is way cheaper than canadaram
- # [21:42] <@davidb> ok
- # [21:43] <@hub> with tax and shipping, it was $62
- # [21:43] <@hub> vs $83 pre-tax&shipping
- # [21:43] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I think you should understand that before just adding null checks
- # [21:43] <@tbsaunde> until we don't crash
- # [21:44] <@davidb> tbsaunde: do we have a defunct check?
- # [21:44] <@davidb> one sec
- # [21:45] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ok so we want to know how the frame goes bad between State's defunct check and this line
- # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> davidb: iirc this happens while fireing events, but yes there is a IsDefunct() check in State()
- # [21:46] <@davidb> yes i'm commenting on that in the bug now
- # [21:50] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ok I've asked him. Glad you thought of that.
- # [21:51] <@tbsaunde> davidb: couldn't you just walk through State() in your debugger, and call GetFrame() every so often?
- # [21:51] <@davidb> tbsaunde: I haven't recreated the bug.
- # [21:51] <@tbsaunde> davidb: to find out where it happens
- # [21:51] <@davidb> I think it is timing related
- # [21:51] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oh, yeah, sorry
- # [21:51] <@davidb> np
- # [21:54] <@tbsaunde> clown: dom inspector allows you to see the gecko a11y tree
- # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> clown: re bug 713010)
- # [21:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713010 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Element marked with ARIA role='button' and aria-pressed attribute not exposed as a toggle button
- # [21:55] <clown> hi tbsaunde. how do I invoke it?
- # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> clown: its an extension you install
- # [21:56] <clown> tbsaunde: url?
- # [21:56] <@tbsaunde> then I'm not exactly sure, but I think you do tools -> webdev -> inspector or some such and then click for the accessible view
- # [21:56] <clown> or something to google for?
- # [21:56] <@tbsaunde> not off hand :(
- # [21:56] <clown> tbsaunde: you're just trying to torture me… ;-)
- # [21:56] <@tbsaunde> I'd expect google for dom inspector is enough
- # [21:56] <@hub> add-ons have it
- # [21:57] <@tbsaunde> :p
- # [21:57] <@hub> amo
- # [21:58] <@tbsaunde> clown: its not a big deal, I'm pretty sure that accerciser is holding on too an accessible or something and you aren't seeing that we recreated the accessible
- # [21:58] <@tbsaunde> (I'm not really sure why we always recreate the accessible in all cases)
- # [21:58] <clown> well, in this case (due to "bad" markup), maybe you have to, since the role changes.
- # [21:59] <@tbsaunde> yes, I mean I'm not really sure why we force recreation for all role changes
- # [21:59] <clown> dunno. maybe because if you change the role, potentially a lot of other things change as well?
- # [22:00] <@tbsaunde> well, other things certainly can, so it might just be its easier to always do it
- # [22:00] <clown> right
- # [22:02] <clown> tbsaunde, I found this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/dom-inspector-6622/
- # [22:02] <clown> is that it?
- # [22:02] <@tbsaunde> clown: yes
- # [22:03] <clown> tbsaunde: thanks (you to hub)
- # [22:03] <clown> "too"
- # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> np
- # [22:04] <@askalski> davidb, wow, virtualized, all test passed, even the one that never got through on ubuntu 11.04
- # [22:04] <@tbsaunde> askalski: weird *shrug*
- # [22:04] <@askalski> I'll restart locally
- # [22:04] <@askalski> and diff which one is to blame
- # [22:04] <@askalski> ok?
- # [22:05] <@davidb> good
- # [22:08] <clown> tbsaunde: ran DOM Inspector on FF/Linux, and indeed it does switch to a toggle. So, looks like bug (feature?) in accerciser.
- # [22:09] <clown> I'll contact javier sometime next week, I guess.
- # [22:09] <@tbsaunde> ok, sounds good, tanks
- # [22:10] <clown> bazookas
- # [22:11] <@tbsaunde> clown: it would be interesting to know what happens if you start accerciser after cicking the button
- # [22:14] <clown> nice intuition tbsaunde: if I restart accerciser and navigate back to the button, it's now a toggle.
- # [22:15] <clown> shouldn't have to restart to see that, though
- # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> clown: yeah, but that proves something is going weird between accerciser and firefo
- # [22:26] <clown> true.
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- # [22:48] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 713010 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [22:49] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 713010 to WORKSFORME.
- # [22:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=713010 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Element marked with ARIA role='button' and aria-pressed attribute not exposed as a toggle button
- # [22:49] <clown> davidb: you're welcome!
- # [22:49] <@davidb> :)
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- # [22:50] <@askalski> davidb, 15299 ERROR TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/test_childAtPoint.xul | Wrong deepest child accessible [['treecol@id="col2" node', address: 0x2ba01a9cd0d0, role: columnheader, name: 'column 2', address: 0x2ba01a95d430]] at the point (162, 1) of accessible [[ 'tree@id="tree" node', address: 0x2ba01a9ccf20 ]] - got [xpconnect wrapped (nsISupports, nsIAccessible, nsIAccessNode) @ 0x2ba01b586da0 (native @
- # [22:50] <@askalski> 0x2ba01a95cf20)], expected [xpconnect wrapped (nsISupports, nsIAccessible, nsIAccessNode) @ 0x2ba01b586f60 (native @ 0x2ba01a95d430)]
- # [22:50] <@askalski> this is the one that differs
- # [22:51] <@davidb> interesting
- # [22:51] <@askalski> I can re-try this test on virtualized ubuntu 11.04 to check if that's version related
- # [22:51] <@davidb> that might happen if something overlaps something else (i think)
- # [22:51] <@askalski> big fonts?
- # [22:51] <@davidb> possible
- # [22:51] <@askalski> hmm
- # [22:51] <@davidb> it changes layout
- # [22:51] <@askalski> I'll think about it
- # [22:51] <@davidb> ok
- # [22:52] <@askalski> now I need to go, it's 11 pm :)
- # [22:52] <@askalski> amost
- # [22:52] <@askalski> so, I got working test environment! hurray!
- # [22:52] <@askalski> the win of today
- # [22:52] <@askalski> ok, I am going
- # [22:52] <@askalski> bye
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- # [23:27] <@firebot> jboriss@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 607896 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
- # [23:27] * Quits: @aaronlev (aaronlev@moz-9058091D.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: aaronlev)
- # [23:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607896 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The space key should scroll to top when it's at the bottom
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- # [23:44] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 590095 on bug 712923.
- # [23:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
- # [23:45] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590356 on bug 712923.
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- # Session Close: Sat Jan 21 00:00:01 2012
The end :)