/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-01-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jan 24 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:01] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: so, this is memory of code from several months back, but I believe that when we actually cause the click to take place we don't know what accessible the action was invoked on
  4. # [00:01] <@tbsaunde> I gues we could figure it out, but it's atleast possible it nolonger exists
  5. # [00:01] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, you mean via doAction()?
  6. # [00:03] <@hub> ok, my first commit is in
  7. # [00:04] <@eeejay> hub, \o/
  8. # [00:04] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: yes
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  10. # [00:06] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, i see in nsRootAccessible.cpp we listen for a CheckboxStateChange DOM event, and then fire a native state changed event. i am thinking we need something similar for simple activate events
  11. # [00:06] <godenvel> I,
  12. # [00:06] <godenvel> I!
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  14. # [00:07] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: ok
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  16. # [00:07] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, i don't think it matters where the action is invoked, via doAction or actual clicks
  17. # [00:07] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I'm not convinced tere's a use case, but I don't have any real problem with it provided you can implement it easily
  18. # [00:07] * Parts: godenvel (godenvel@moz-4C8972BC.ip87.fastwebnet.it) (Leaving)
  19. # [00:07] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, i just ran into a use case :)
  20. # [00:07] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, android a11y expects this
  21. # [00:08] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: ok, feel free to file a bug and explain why you can't use what we have
  22. # [00:08] <@eeejay> k
  23. # [00:09] * @tbsaunde tends to think at this point that while a bit ineligant a extension would have been the right hack
  24. # [00:15] <@eeejay> who is involved in ia2 these days?
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  26. # [00:17] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: peteb-away surkov, and a some others
  27. # [00:17] <@tbsaunde> why? (just curious)
  28. # [00:20] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, just want to understand what and who uses IA2_EVENT_HYPERTEXT_LINK_ACTIVATED
  29. # [00:21] <@tbsaunde> ah
  30. # [00:22] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: asking jamie when he shows up is probably a reasonable et
  31. # [00:22] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, yea
  32. # [00:22] <@eeejay> grepped for it in nvda, doesn't look like it is used
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  35. # [00:33] <@hub> do we still go on with the team meeting Wednesday?
  36. # [00:34] <@tbsaunde> do we have anything useful to discuss?
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  45. # [02:17] <@eeejay> hey Jamie
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  48. # [03:05] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590956 on bug 672504.
  49. # [03:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672504 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Don't keep pointer to weak presshell in accessible
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  74. # [09:12] <@MarcoZ> Good morning all!
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  76. # [09:17] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 720393 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  77. # [09:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=720393 maj, --, ---, nobody, VERI FIXED, NVDA's virtual buffer often breaks with iFrames, started January 23, 2012 build.
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  84. # [13:54] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 717505 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  85. # [13:54] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 717505 to FIXED.
  86. # [13:54] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Target Milestone on bug 717505 from --- to mozilla12.
  87. # [13:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717505 cri, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, Crash [@ nsAccessible::VisibilityState] when closing a tab, depending on when accessibility was enab
  88. # [14:06] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 712923 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  89. # [14:06] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 712923 to FIXED.
  90. # [14:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, mozilla12, hub, RESO FIXED, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
  91. # [14:56] <@MarcoZ> Yay!
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  95. # [15:30] <@davidb> heyo
  96. # [15:31] <@tbsaunde> hi
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  98. # [15:46] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hub is asking about folding in some work into another patch. I haven't looked.
  99. # [15:48] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, I saw
  100. # [15:48] <@tbsaunde> I'm not really sure what I think
  101. # [15:48] <@davidb> same
  102. # [15:49] <@davidb> i'd leave it to hub
  103. # [15:50] <@tbsaunde> christ its a long patch already though
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  111. # [16:39] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 718633 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  112. # [16:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718633 nor, P1, ---, hub, VERI DUPLICATE, [Mac] Links inside headings are prepresented by an "object replacement character", their text should
  113. # [16:42] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 712923 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  114. # [16:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, mozilla12, hub, VERI FIXED, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
  115. # [16:49] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I've resumed updating projects/accessibility with the latest m-c code on a daily basis, basically after m-c receives the new stuff from inbound.
  116. # [16:49] <@davidb> cool
  117. # [16:49] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@moz-A6FE435.build.sjc1.mozilla.com)
  118. # [16:50] <@davidb> i've been collecting data on contributors this morning
  119. # [16:50] <@davidb> comparing to 2010 etc
  120. # [16:50] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Any chance builds coming out of projects/accessibility can be a11y-enabled on Mac by default from now on?
  121. # [16:50] <@davidb> we have a lot of 1-3 bug contributors
  122. # [16:50] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I'll talk to cat lee today
  123. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Thanks!
  124. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You mean people who contribute 1 to 3 patches and then disappear?
  125. # [16:51] <@davidb> MarcoZ: but essentially, I've been told that we'll have to change the mozconfig in the tree, and be careful when merging
  126. # [16:51] <@davidb> yes
  127. # [16:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: How do you merge only a specific set of changes and leave the other(s) out?
  128. # [16:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Does "push" accept a revision or range of revisions?
  129. # [16:52] <@davidb> dunno
  130. # [16:53] <@davidb> so far this year, all non paid contribs are to good first bugs
  131. # [16:54] <@MarcoZ> Yes, this "good first bugs" thing has brought us a bunch of contributions in the past couple of months. And jhk is the most active of those.
  132. # [16:59] <@davidb> yep
  133. # [17:05] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: What's the proper syntax to copy a whole directory with the cp command in a Unix shell?
  134. # [17:09] <@MarcoZ> Argh I hate hate hate hate Unix syntax! How on Earth do I set darn permissions on a file?
  135. # [17:16] <@davidb> MarcoZ: cp -r and chmod?
  136. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah it complains that my permissions for my private key for HG are too open. They were 755 when I first copied them from my Windows machine, I changed them to 644 (or it says 0644), and they're still too open. But it doesn't tell me which ones it wants.
  137. # [17:18] <@davidb> i've never heard of that
  138. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I basically want to be able to hg push from my MacBook (inside Mac OS).
  139. # [17:18] <@davidb> yeah i'll check mine
  140. # [17:19] <@MarcoZ> Specifically it says id_dsa permissions are too open.
  141. # [17:19] <@davidb> mine are 644 AFAICT
  142. # [17:19] <@davidb> oh
  143. # [17:19] <@davidb> you want 600
  144. # [17:20] <@davidb> i think
  145. # [17:20] <@davidb> try that
  146. # [17:21] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yup that worked! Thanks!
  147. # [17:21] <@davidb> np
  148. # [17:23] * @MarcoZ clones mozilla-inbound
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  151. # [17:26] <@MarcoZ> Hi hub! Congrats on your first own landing!
  152. # [17:26] <@hub> thanks
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  155. # [17:39] <@davidb> hub: so Firefox 13 gets uplifted on March 13th… but I think March 12th is our better option for a work week. Last call for opinions.
  156. # [17:39] <@hub> ok
  157. # [17:41] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you're thinking of a couple days at home then come for a couple at the work week?
  158. # [17:41] <@MarcoZ> davidb: When does 12 get uplifted? On 31 Jan?
  159. # [17:41] <@davidb> yes
  160. # [17:41] <@davidb> 1 week today
  161. # [17:42] <@davidb> tbsaunde: (spring break)
  162. # [17:43] <@MarcoZ> davidb: For 13, I would REALLY like to get bug 653226 and bug 653230 resolved. This is such a stupid usability problem! :(
  163. # [17:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653226 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Improve keyboard accessibility of type="menu-button" buttons
  164. # [17:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653230 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Panel unexpectedly receives focus when noautofocus="true"
  165. # [17:44] <@davidb> MarcoZ: how is that looking?
  166. # [17:44] <@davidb> any recent activity?
  167. # [17:44] <@davidb> Enn is in today
  168. # [17:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Grab him and don't let him go before this is resolved! *g* No activity to speak of.
  169. # [17:44] <@davidb> heheh
  170. # [17:45] <@davidb> well i need to get my head in the bug each time
  171. # [17:45] <@davidb> is there a specific question I can ask him?
  172. # [17:45] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And it keeps slipping again and again. Not blaming you, I would just like your help at finally getting someone to sit down and work this thing out properly.
  173. # [17:46] <@davidb> yes, we'll escalate as necessary
  174. # [17:46] <@davidb> I think I should do that today
  175. # [17:46] * @davidb looks at a list
  176. # [17:46] <@MarcoZ> davidb: No, I think we just need to get this stupid behavior resolved for menu buttons, and the focus reception for the other bug sorted. We fire this as an alert, so there is no need to also set focus to the doorhanger when it pops up. And this menu button needs to behave properly when pressed, and not give the behavior it gives now, which is totally busted IMO.
  177. # [17:47] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ok, let's get a detailed plan. So for the door hanger, what is the user interaction for a sighted keyboard user.
  178. # [17:47] <@davidb> (e.g. a single switch user)
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  180. # [17:48] <@davidb> do we want F6 to go to the doorhanger?
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  183. # [17:52] <@davidb> MarcoZ: do we want F6 to go to the door hanger?
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  185. # [17:52] <@MarcoZ> tdaviYes. Or to be more consistent, if we're in the document, shift+F6.
  186. # [17:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: ^
  187. # [17:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So the door hanger should be inbetween the navigation toolbar and document in the F6 order if it is present.
  188. # [17:53] <@davidb> MarcoZ: those wiki pages you used to do for approvals were effective. Can you do a first draft of how we want this to work in a wiki?
  189. # [17:53] <@MarcoZ> And right now, F6 already goes from the doorhanger to the document.
  190. # [17:53] <@davidb> I want to capture this.
  191. # [17:53] <@davidb> same for the other bug?
  192. # [17:53] <@davidb> Then I'll edit and run with it.
  193. # [17:53] <@davidb> The bug comments can be confusing.
  194. # [17:54] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK, should I put this under Accessibility somewhere?
  195. # [17:54] <@davidb> sure
  196. # [17:54] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK, gimme a sec.
  197. # [17:54] <@davidb> thanks!
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  204. # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Number 1: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Doorhanger_Keyboard_Navigation
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  207. # [18:11] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Number 2: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/MenuButton_Keyboard_Navigation
  208. # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, I gues I'm fine with that date
  209. # [18:19] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, you definitely don't want the last octet of your private key to be perms to be anything but 0, and there really isn't any reason you wnat groups to have access
  210. # [18:22] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: the octet syntax is kind of weird but its short, you might find the syntax to chmod that uses letters more clear
  211. # [18:23] * @tbsaunde wonders what windows does that isn't fundimentally a bit field of permissions
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  213. # [18:23] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: On Windows, I have a dialog that can set these permissions. :) On the Mac, with those hidden unix-style settings folders, it's not so simple to get such a dialog.
  214. # [18:24] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: But I figured it out with davidb's help and with the help of Aunt Wikipedia.
  215. # [18:24] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: And now it's working so I can push from OS X to hg.
  216. # [18:24] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: yeah, I saw you figured it out
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  221. # [19:05] <@aaronlev> hi eeejay
  222. # [19:05] <@eeejay> hey aaronlev
  223. # [19:05] <@aaronlev> … can i bug you yet? :)
  224. # [19:07] <@eeejay> aaronlev, sure, i see you on skype
  225. # [19:08] <@eeejay> or phone :) is it weird that skype is more reliable these days than my cellphone?
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  227. # [19:13] <@aaronlev> eeejay: at&t?
  228. # [19:14] <@eeejay> aaronlev, sure
  229. # [19:15] <@aaronlev> that's why :)
  230. # [19:15] <@davidb> MarcoZ: thanks!
  231. # [19:17] <@eeejay> aaronlev, i migrated to google voice a while ago, i think that doesn't help either
  232. # [19:17] <@davidb> MarcoZ: with regular alerts, does focus not go to the alert?
  233. # [19:18] <@davidb> hi eeejay
  234. # [19:18] <@davidb> hi aaronlev
  235. # [19:18] <@eeejay> davidb, heyhey
  236. # [19:18] <@davidb> i suppose you are specleniuming
  237. # [19:19] <@eeejay> mostly androiding
  238. # [19:24] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Nope.
  239. # [19:25] <@davidb> eeejay: coolio
  240. # [19:25] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ok
  241. # [19:26] * Quits: @aaronlev (aaronlev@moz-CDA191A6.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com) (Client exited)
  242. # [19:26] * Joins: aaronlev (aaronlev@moz-CDA191A6.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com)
  243. # [19:26] * ChanServ sets mode: +o aaronlev
  244. # [19:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Can you show enn using NVDA what I mean by the "menu button" and "button" role tab inconsistencies?
  245. # [19:44] <@davidb> MarcoZ: yes
  246. # [19:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Thanks! I'm not sure I can communicate this through the bug 100% clearly.
  247. # [19:44] <@davidb> i need to make sure i'm clear - will look soon
  248. # [19:45] <@davidb> chatting with richardschwerdtfeger
  249. # [19:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK!
  250. # [19:51] <@MarcoZ> Will probably be here another hour.
  251. # [20:17] * Quits: ivan (ivan@moz-531C3EC9.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout)
  252. # [20:19] <@davidb> oof
  253. # [20:19] <@davidb> dev meeting!
  254. # [20:25] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Ping timeout)
  255. # [20:30] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-2C2B7D1F.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  256. # [20:35] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  257. # [20:35] <@eeejay> davidb, i could be on vidyo if that makes like easy
  258. # [20:35] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  259. # [20:36] <@eeejay> i am getting used to C++, writing code for 30 minutes, and it compiles first try!
  260. # [20:36] <@davidb> eeejay: just wrapping something up. i launched Skype so we have options. start in 5?
  261. # [20:37] <@eeejay> sounds good
  262. # [20:38] <@hub> eeejay: it does not take 30minutes to compile, does it?
  263. # [20:39] <@eeejay> hub, no. just saying i could write 100 lines of code and i don't get compile errors, that means i am getting used to C++ :)
  264. # [20:39] <@hub> I was trying to be funny
  265. # [20:39] <@hub> #fail
  266. # [20:39] <@eeejay> :)
  267. # [20:43] <@hub> no firebot?
  268. # [20:44] <@davidb> firebot: hi
  269. # [20:44] <@firebot> bonjour davidb
  270. # [20:59] <@MarcoZ> OK guys, am off for the night. See you tomorrow!
  271. # [20:59] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-D48A7CC.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: l8er)
  272. # [21:05] * Quits: webben (benjamin@moz-BA505DDD.static.cloud-ips.com) (Ping timeout)
  273. # [21:07] <@hub> it didn't highlight my review request
  274. # [21:15] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 670928 from RESOLVED to REOPENED.
  275. # [21:15] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cleared the Resolution 'WONTFIX' from bug 670928.
  276. # [21:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670928 enh, --, ---, eitan, REOP, HTML5 element and WAI-ARIA landmark roles easily navigable in Firefox
  277. # [21:25] * Joins: silvia (Adium@moz-7033BBBB.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  278. # [21:36] * Joins: webben (benjamin@moz-BA505DDD.static.cloud-ips.com)
  279. # [21:54] <@tbsaunde> hub: r=me on that patch, you might want to update the comment by the if you change, and putting the last arg on the next line to be slightly closer to within 80 chars might be nice
  280. # [21:54] * @tbsaunde doesn't have time to fiddle with bugzilla atm, but I'll make it offical in a bit
  281. # [21:56] <@hub> tbsaunde: ok
  282. # [22:33] * Joins: askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl)
  283. # [22:33] * ChanServ sets mode: +o askalski
  284. # [22:36] <@askalski> hi everyone!
  285. # [22:37] <@hub> hi
  286. # [22:38] <@askalski> just checking in, it's late evening in Warsaw, so I won't be here long
  287. # [22:46] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  288. # [22:55] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  289. # [23:03] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  290. # [23:04] <@davidb> askalski: heyo
  291. # [23:04] <@askalski> hi David!
  292. # [23:05] <@askalski> I got the tests today. it looks good so far. not brilliant, but good enough.
  293. # [23:07] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  294. # [23:07] <@askalski> davidb, have you hear about HUD in unity (ubuntu)? looks promising
  295. # [23:08] <@askalski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_WW-DHqR3c
  296. # [23:08] <@davidb> askalski: that's great, and yes I have.
  297. # [23:08] <@askalski> you're taking part in it's development?
  298. # [23:09] <@davidb> no
  299. # [23:09] <@davidb> It is like Ubiquity
  300. # [23:10] <@davidb> which was a HUD for firefox
  301. # [23:10] <@davidb> but ours was more natural lang
  302. # [23:11] <@askalski> you mean natural language processing in order to get the command, right?
  303. # [23:12] <@askalski> yeah, this is more useful to someone who can get immediate visual feedback from the picker
  304. # [23:14] <@davidb> yes and yes
  305. # [23:15] <@askalski> anyway, it's nice that such applications reach mainstream anyway
  306. # [23:15] <@askalski> it'll encourage developers in supporting improved accessibility technologies, which is a step forward
  307. # [23:17] <@hub> second landing in m-i :-)
  308. # [23:18] <@askalski> ok, it's late, I need to go to sleep
  309. # [23:19] <@askalski> I'll be tomorrow for several hours and try to catch up Thursday. bye
  310. # [23:20] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  311. # [23:26] <@davidb> hub: :)
  312. # [23:34] <@davidb> crap Neil's gone
  313. # [23:40] * Quits: webben (benjamin@moz-BA505DDD.static.cloud-ips.com) (Ping timeout)
  314. # [23:43] <@davidb> but is seems like steps were taken anyways
  315. # [23:54] * Joins: ivan (ivan@moz-531C3EC9.members.linode.com)
  316. # Session Close: Wed Jan 25 00:00:01 2012

The end :)