/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-01-24 / end
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- # Session Start: Tue Jan 24 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
- # [00:01] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: so, this is memory of code from several months back, but I believe that when we actually cause the click to take place we don't know what accessible the action was invoked on
- # [00:01] <@tbsaunde> I gues we could figure it out, but it's atleast possible it nolonger exists
- # [00:01] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, you mean via doAction()?
- # [00:03] <@hub> ok, my first commit is in
- # [00:04] <@eeejay> hub, \o/
- # [00:04] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: yes
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- # [00:06] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, i see in nsRootAccessible.cpp we listen for a CheckboxStateChange DOM event, and then fire a native state changed event. i am thinking we need something similar for simple activate events
- # [00:06] <godenvel> I,
- # [00:06] <godenvel> I!
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- # [00:07] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: ok
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- # [00:07] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, i don't think it matters where the action is invoked, via doAction or actual clicks
- # [00:07] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I'm not convinced tere's a use case, but I don't have any real problem with it provided you can implement it easily
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- # [00:07] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, i just ran into a use case :)
- # [00:07] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, android a11y expects this
- # [00:08] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: ok, feel free to file a bug and explain why you can't use what we have
- # [00:08] <@eeejay> k
- # [00:09] * @tbsaunde tends to think at this point that while a bit ineligant a extension would have been the right hack
- # [00:15] <@eeejay> who is involved in ia2 these days?
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- # [00:17] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: peteb-away surkov, and a some others
- # [00:17] <@tbsaunde> why? (just curious)
- # [00:20] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, just want to understand what and who uses IA2_EVENT_HYPERTEXT_LINK_ACTIVATED
- # [00:21] <@tbsaunde> ah
- # [00:22] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: asking jamie when he shows up is probably a reasonable et
- # [00:22] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, yea
- # [00:22] <@eeejay> grepped for it in nvda, doesn't look like it is used
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- # [00:33] <@hub> do we still go on with the team meeting Wednesday?
- # [00:34] <@tbsaunde> do we have anything useful to discuss?
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- # [02:17] <@eeejay> hey Jamie
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- # [03:05] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 590956 on bug 672504.
- # [03:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672504 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Don't keep pointer to weak presshell in accessible
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- # [09:12] <@MarcoZ> Good morning all!
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- # [09:17] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 720393 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
- # [09:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=720393 maj, --, ---, nobody, VERI FIXED, NVDA's virtual buffer often breaks with iFrames, started January 23, 2012 build.
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- # [13:54] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 717505 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [13:54] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 717505 to FIXED.
- # [13:54] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Target Milestone on bug 717505 from --- to mozilla12.
- # [13:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717505 cri, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, Crash [@ nsAccessible::VisibilityState] when closing a tab, depending on when accessibility was enab
- # [14:06] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 712923 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [14:06] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 712923 to FIXED.
- # [14:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, mozilla12, hub, RESO FIXED, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
- # [14:56] <@MarcoZ> Yay!
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- # [15:30] <@davidb> heyo
- # [15:31] <@tbsaunde> hi
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- # [15:46] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hub is asking about folding in some work into another patch. I haven't looked.
- # [15:48] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, I saw
- # [15:48] <@tbsaunde> I'm not really sure what I think
- # [15:48] <@davidb> same
- # [15:49] <@davidb> i'd leave it to hub
- # [15:50] <@tbsaunde> christ its a long patch already though
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- # [16:39] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 718633 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
- # [16:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718633 nor, P1, ---, hub, VERI DUPLICATE, [Mac] Links inside headings are prepresented by an "object replacement character", their text should
- # [16:42] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 712923 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
- # [16:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712923 nor, --, mozilla12, hub, VERI FIXED, [Mac] Heading elements h1 through h6 are not recognizable by VoiceOver
- # [16:49] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I've resumed updating projects/accessibility with the latest m-c code on a daily basis, basically after m-c receives the new stuff from inbound.
- # [16:49] <@davidb> cool
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- # [16:50] <@davidb> i've been collecting data on contributors this morning
- # [16:50] <@davidb> comparing to 2010 etc
- # [16:50] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Any chance builds coming out of projects/accessibility can be a11y-enabled on Mac by default from now on?
- # [16:50] <@davidb> we have a lot of 1-3 bug contributors
- # [16:50] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I'll talk to cat lee today
- # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Thanks!
- # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You mean people who contribute 1 to 3 patches and then disappear?
- # [16:51] <@davidb> MarcoZ: but essentially, I've been told that we'll have to change the mozconfig in the tree, and be careful when merging
- # [16:51] <@davidb> yes
- # [16:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: How do you merge only a specific set of changes and leave the other(s) out?
- # [16:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Does "push" accept a revision or range of revisions?
- # [16:52] <@davidb> dunno
- # [16:53] <@davidb> so far this year, all non paid contribs are to good first bugs
- # [16:54] <@MarcoZ> Yes, this "good first bugs" thing has brought us a bunch of contributions in the past couple of months. And jhk is the most active of those.
- # [16:59] <@davidb> yep
- # [17:05] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: What's the proper syntax to copy a whole directory with the cp command in a Unix shell?
- # [17:09] <@MarcoZ> Argh I hate hate hate hate Unix syntax! How on Earth do I set darn permissions on a file?
- # [17:16] <@davidb> MarcoZ: cp -r and chmod?
- # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah it complains that my permissions for my private key for HG are too open. They were 755 when I first copied them from my Windows machine, I changed them to 644 (or it says 0644), and they're still too open. But it doesn't tell me which ones it wants.
- # [17:18] <@davidb> i've never heard of that
- # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I basically want to be able to hg push from my MacBook (inside Mac OS).
- # [17:18] <@davidb> yeah i'll check mine
- # [17:19] <@MarcoZ> Specifically it says id_dsa permissions are too open.
- # [17:19] <@davidb> mine are 644 AFAICT
- # [17:19] <@davidb> oh
- # [17:19] <@davidb> you want 600
- # [17:20] <@davidb> i think
- # [17:20] <@davidb> try that
- # [17:21] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yup that worked! Thanks!
- # [17:21] <@davidb> np
- # [17:23] * @MarcoZ clones mozilla-inbound
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- # [17:26] <@MarcoZ> Hi hub! Congrats on your first own landing!
- # [17:26] <@hub> thanks
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- # [17:39] <@davidb> hub: so Firefox 13 gets uplifted on March 13th… but I think March 12th is our better option for a work week. Last call for opinions.
- # [17:39] <@hub> ok
- # [17:41] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you're thinking of a couple days at home then come for a couple at the work week?
- # [17:41] <@MarcoZ> davidb: When does 12 get uplifted? On 31 Jan?
- # [17:41] <@davidb> yes
- # [17:41] <@davidb> 1 week today
- # [17:42] <@davidb> tbsaunde: (spring break)
- # [17:43] <@MarcoZ> davidb: For 13, I would REALLY like to get bug 653226 and bug 653230 resolved. This is such a stupid usability problem! :(
- # [17:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653226 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Improve keyboard accessibility of type="menu-button" buttons
- # [17:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653230 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Panel unexpectedly receives focus when noautofocus="true"
- # [17:44] <@davidb> MarcoZ: how is that looking?
- # [17:44] <@davidb> any recent activity?
- # [17:44] <@davidb> Enn is in today
- # [17:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Grab him and don't let him go before this is resolved! *g* No activity to speak of.
- # [17:44] <@davidb> heheh
- # [17:45] <@davidb> well i need to get my head in the bug each time
- # [17:45] <@davidb> is there a specific question I can ask him?
- # [17:45] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And it keeps slipping again and again. Not blaming you, I would just like your help at finally getting someone to sit down and work this thing out properly.
- # [17:46] <@davidb> yes, we'll escalate as necessary
- # [17:46] <@davidb> I think I should do that today
- # [17:46] * @davidb looks at a list
- # [17:46] <@MarcoZ> davidb: No, I think we just need to get this stupid behavior resolved for menu buttons, and the focus reception for the other bug sorted. We fire this as an alert, so there is no need to also set focus to the doorhanger when it pops up. And this menu button needs to behave properly when pressed, and not give the behavior it gives now, which is totally busted IMO.
- # [17:47] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ok, let's get a detailed plan. So for the door hanger, what is the user interaction for a sighted keyboard user.
- # [17:47] <@davidb> (e.g. a single switch user)
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- # [17:48] <@davidb> do we want F6 to go to the doorhanger?
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- # [17:52] <@davidb> MarcoZ: do we want F6 to go to the door hanger?
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- # [17:52] <@MarcoZ> tdaviYes. Or to be more consistent, if we're in the document, shift+F6.
- # [17:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: ^
- # [17:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So the door hanger should be inbetween the navigation toolbar and document in the F6 order if it is present.
- # [17:53] <@davidb> MarcoZ: those wiki pages you used to do for approvals were effective. Can you do a first draft of how we want this to work in a wiki?
- # [17:53] <@MarcoZ> And right now, F6 already goes from the doorhanger to the document.
- # [17:53] <@davidb> I want to capture this.
- # [17:53] <@davidb> same for the other bug?
- # [17:53] <@davidb> Then I'll edit and run with it.
- # [17:53] <@davidb> The bug comments can be confusing.
- # [17:54] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK, should I put this under Accessibility somewhere?
- # [17:54] <@davidb> sure
- # [17:54] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK, gimme a sec.
- # [17:54] <@davidb> thanks!
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- # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Number 1: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Doorhanger_Keyboard_Navigation
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- # [18:11] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Number 2: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/MenuButton_Keyboard_Navigation
- # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, I gues I'm fine with that date
- # [18:19] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, you definitely don't want the last octet of your private key to be perms to be anything but 0, and there really isn't any reason you wnat groups to have access
- # [18:22] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: the octet syntax is kind of weird but its short, you might find the syntax to chmod that uses letters more clear
- # [18:23] * @tbsaunde wonders what windows does that isn't fundimentally a bit field of permissions
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- # [18:23] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: On Windows, I have a dialog that can set these permissions. :) On the Mac, with those hidden unix-style settings folders, it's not so simple to get such a dialog.
- # [18:24] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: But I figured it out with davidb's help and with the help of Aunt Wikipedia.
- # [18:24] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: And now it's working so I can push from OS X to hg.
- # [18:24] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: yeah, I saw you figured it out
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- # [19:05] <@aaronlev> hi eeejay
- # [19:05] <@eeejay> hey aaronlev
- # [19:05] <@aaronlev> … can i bug you yet? :)
- # [19:07] <@eeejay> aaronlev, sure, i see you on skype
- # [19:08] <@eeejay> or phone :) is it weird that skype is more reliable these days than my cellphone?
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- # [19:13] <@aaronlev> eeejay: at&t?
- # [19:14] <@eeejay> aaronlev, sure
- # [19:15] <@aaronlev> that's why :)
- # [19:15] <@davidb> MarcoZ: thanks!
- # [19:17] <@eeejay> aaronlev, i migrated to google voice a while ago, i think that doesn't help either
- # [19:17] <@davidb> MarcoZ: with regular alerts, does focus not go to the alert?
- # [19:18] <@davidb> hi eeejay
- # [19:18] <@davidb> hi aaronlev
- # [19:18] <@eeejay> davidb, heyhey
- # [19:18] <@davidb> i suppose you are specleniuming
- # [19:19] <@eeejay> mostly androiding
- # [19:24] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Nope.
- # [19:25] <@davidb> eeejay: coolio
- # [19:25] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ok
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- # [19:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Can you show enn using NVDA what I mean by the "menu button" and "button" role tab inconsistencies?
- # [19:44] <@davidb> MarcoZ: yes
- # [19:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Thanks! I'm not sure I can communicate this through the bug 100% clearly.
- # [19:44] <@davidb> i need to make sure i'm clear - will look soon
- # [19:45] <@davidb> chatting with richardschwerdtfeger
- # [19:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK!
- # [19:51] <@MarcoZ> Will probably be here another hour.
- # [20:17] * Quits: ivan (ivan@moz-531C3EC9.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [20:19] <@davidb> oof
- # [20:19] <@davidb> dev meeting!
- # [20:25] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Ping timeout)
- # [20:30] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-2C2B7D1F.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
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- # [20:35] <@eeejay> davidb, i could be on vidyo if that makes like easy
- # [20:35] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
- # [20:36] <@eeejay> i am getting used to C++, writing code for 30 minutes, and it compiles first try!
- # [20:36] <@davidb> eeejay: just wrapping something up. i launched Skype so we have options. start in 5?
- # [20:37] <@eeejay> sounds good
- # [20:38] <@hub> eeejay: it does not take 30minutes to compile, does it?
- # [20:39] <@eeejay> hub, no. just saying i could write 100 lines of code and i don't get compile errors, that means i am getting used to C++ :)
- # [20:39] <@hub> I was trying to be funny
- # [20:39] <@hub> #fail
- # [20:39] <@eeejay> :)
- # [20:43] <@hub> no firebot?
- # [20:44] <@davidb> firebot: hi
- # [20:44] <@firebot> bonjour davidb
- # [20:59] <@MarcoZ> OK guys, am off for the night. See you tomorrow!
- # [20:59] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-D48A7CC.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: l8er)
- # [21:05] * Quits: webben (benjamin@moz-BA505DDD.static.cloud-ips.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [21:07] <@hub> it didn't highlight my review request
- # [21:15] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 670928 from RESOLVED to REOPENED.
- # [21:15] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cleared the Resolution 'WONTFIX' from bug 670928.
- # [21:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670928 enh, --, ---, eitan, REOP, HTML5 element and WAI-ARIA landmark roles easily navigable in Firefox
- # [21:25] * Joins: silvia (Adium@moz-7033BBBB.dyn.iinet.net.au)
- # [21:36] * Joins: webben (benjamin@moz-BA505DDD.static.cloud-ips.com)
- # [21:54] <@tbsaunde> hub: r=me on that patch, you might want to update the comment by the if you change, and putting the last arg on the next line to be slightly closer to within 80 chars might be nice
- # [21:54] * @tbsaunde doesn't have time to fiddle with bugzilla atm, but I'll make it offical in a bit
- # [21:56] <@hub> tbsaunde: ok
- # [22:33] * Joins: askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl)
- # [22:33] * ChanServ sets mode: +o askalski
- # [22:36] <@askalski> hi everyone!
- # [22:37] <@hub> hi
- # [22:38] <@askalski> just checking in, it's late evening in Warsaw, so I won't be here long
- # [22:46] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
- # [22:55] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
- # [23:03] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
- # [23:04] <@davidb> askalski: heyo
- # [23:04] <@askalski> hi David!
- # [23:05] <@askalski> I got the tests today. it looks good so far. not brilliant, but good enough.
- # [23:07] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [23:07] <@askalski> davidb, have you hear about HUD in unity (ubuntu)? looks promising
- # [23:08] <@askalski> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_WW-DHqR3c
- # [23:08] <@davidb> askalski: that's great, and yes I have.
- # [23:08] <@askalski> you're taking part in it's development?
- # [23:09] <@davidb> no
- # [23:09] <@davidb> It is like Ubiquity
- # [23:10] <@davidb> which was a HUD for firefox
- # [23:10] <@davidb> but ours was more natural lang
- # [23:11] <@askalski> you mean natural language processing in order to get the command, right?
- # [23:12] <@askalski> yeah, this is more useful to someone who can get immediate visual feedback from the picker
- # [23:14] <@davidb> yes and yes
- # [23:15] <@askalski> anyway, it's nice that such applications reach mainstream anyway
- # [23:15] <@askalski> it'll encourage developers in supporting improved accessibility technologies, which is a step forward
- # [23:17] <@hub> second landing in m-i :-)
- # [23:18] <@askalski> ok, it's late, I need to go to sleep
- # [23:19] <@askalski> I'll be tomorrow for several hours and try to catch up Thursday. bye
- # [23:20] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
- # [23:26] <@davidb> hub: :)
- # [23:34] <@davidb> crap Neil's gone
- # [23:40] * Quits: webben (benjamin@moz-BA505DDD.static.cloud-ips.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [23:43] <@davidb> but is seems like steps were taken anyways
- # [23:54] * Joins: ivan (ivan@moz-531C3EC9.members.linode.com)
- # Session Close: Wed Jan 25 00:00:01 2012
The end :)