/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-01-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jan 30 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:15] * Joins: Jamie (jamie@moz-CA26021.jantrid.net)
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  33. # [05:15] <Jamie> hi everyone
  34. # [05:15] <Jamie> surkov: quick question if I may? :)
  35. # [05:15] <@surkov> Jamie: hi, of course
  36. # [05:16] <Jamie> surkov: Some time ago (I'm not sure when, but my hunch is somewhere in the Firefox 11 timeline), windowed plugins started getting exposed with an extra HWND wrapper
  37. # [05:16] <Jamie> surkov: previously (firefox 4 and later), you had the single Firefox HWND and the plugin was in a child window of that with class GeckoPluginWindow
  38. # [05:16] <@surkov> didn't hear about that, that's a problem right?
  39. # [05:17] <Jamie> now, we have Firefox HWNd -> random MozillaWindowClass wrapper _. GeckoPluginWindow
  40. # [05:17] <Jamie> well, if it's unintentional, it's a problem
  41. # [05:17] <Jamie> if not, it's something we need to work around on our side, though I still think we need a better solution for all of this plugin dodginess
  42. # [05:18] <@surkov> Jamie: that's new for me so can you file a bug please, and we'll figure out what we can do
  43. # [05:18] <Jamie> sure. just checking whether you knew what was going on off the top of your head
  44. # [05:18] <Jamie> I have a few bugs to file today :)
  45. # [05:18] <@surkov> sure, thank you for doing this
  46. # [05:18] <@surkov> sounds scary :)
  47. # [05:18] * Jamie grins
  48. # [05:18] <Jamie> I'm catching up on Mozilla work
  49. # [05:18] <@surkov> great!
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  51. # [06:41] <Jamie> surkov: hmm. seems i was wrong about the wrapping hwnd. firefox 4 has it too. it just... isn't a problem there.
  52. # [06:41] <@surkov> hm, ok
  53. # [06:41] <Jamie> surkov: I seem to recall that a while ago, there was a change to WM_GETOBJECT to not return the top level client accessible for certain HWNDs
  54. # [06:41] <Jamie> any idea what bug that was for?
  55. # [06:42] * Jamie remembers the change, but not why
  56. # [06:42] <@surkov> hm, I don't recall any changes here, at least they weren't done by a11y guys
  57. # [06:42] <Jamie> hmm
  58. # [06:43] <Jamie> I seem to remember me being the one that identified that it needed to be done
  59. # [06:43] <Jamie> I just can't remember why I said that
  60. # [06:43] * Jamie grumbles
  61. # [06:58] * Jamie wades through bugzilla
  62. # [07:11] <@surkov> Jamie: how do you rely on embeds relation on top level document accessible?
  63. # [07:12] <@surkov> Jamie, I fixed bug 707654 but the patch was backed out because it regressed (bug 720393). The interesting thing running NVDA never hits breakpoint for that relation for me
  64. # [07:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=707654 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, REOP, embeds relation on root accessible can return not content document
  65. # [07:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=720393 maj, --, ---, nobody, VERI FIXED, NVDA's virtual buffer often breaks with iFrames, started January 23, 2012 build.
  66. # [08:14] <Jamie> surkov: we use it for plugins to get back to the document
  67. # [08:15] <Jamie> see bug 646360 for details
  68. # [08:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646360 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Plugins should be beneath the document in the accessibility hierarchy
  69. # [08:20] <Jamie> surkov: we've noticed NAVRELATION_EMBEDS seems ot be a bit unreliable in firefox 9 (as compared with firefox 4), but not sure whether we just didn't notice problems before
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  71. # [08:40] <Jamie> urg. is there anywhere i cna find a .zip build of firefox 10?
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  79. # [10:07] <@MarcoZ> Good day all!
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  82. # [11:18] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 722248 filed by jamie@nvaccess.org.
  83. # [11:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
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  88. # [12:04] <@askalski> morning everyone!
  89. # [12:05] <@tbsaunde> morning askalski
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  91. # [12:07] <@MarcoZ> Good morning askalski!
  92. # [12:07] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Any thoughts on my latest comment in bug 591363?
  93. # [12:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591363 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, (in)visible state is not always correct?
  94. # [12:10] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: the we should it out one?
  95. # [12:10] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: I think we may well want to back it out, but I don't really see any hurry
  96. # [12:11] <@tbsaunde> I can't see any trouble getting approval for a small backout
  97. # [12:11] <@tbsaunde> to a well known state
  98. # [12:11] <@tbsaunde> and who knows how big the fix to Jamies issues will be
  99. # [12:12] <@tbsaunde> so I'd probably sit tight till we know that
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  101. # [12:16] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: that said I don't feel particularly strongly about it
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  104. # [12:25] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Thanks, I'll talk to davidb about it when he comes in. But I feel, with the other crash fix that this seems to have introduced, and the lots of comments that followed even after the landing, that this is not finished yet, so I personally feel more comfortable backing this out either now or after the merge from the Aurora channel so it doesn't get carried forward just yet.
  105. # [12:25] <@MarcoZ> s/crash fix/crash bug/
  106. # [13:20] <@askalski> MarcoZ, I am doing tests with "python /home/akuda/Moz/obj-ff-dbg/_tests/testing/mochitest/runtests.py --a11y --close-when-done --log-file="/home/Moz/mochitest1.log" --autorun --console-level=ERROR"
  107. # [13:21] <@askalski> and it hangs
  108. # [13:21] <@askalski> (firefox open, zero tests, nothing happens)
  109. # [13:21] <@askalski> (I mean it hangs before tests starts)
  110. # [13:21] <@askalski> while doing make mochitests-a11y processes
  111. # [13:21] <@askalski> any clues?
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  116. # [13:53] <@MarcoZ> askalski: No idea. It runs OK for me... Hmm....
  117. # [13:54] <@askalski> MarcoZ, ok, I'll just stike to "make"
  118. # [13:54] <@askalski> now I have another issue, for a clear repo no tests are found. I removed entire obj dir and rebuild now
  119. # [13:54] <@askalski> I think my machine is test-cursed
  120. # [13:54] <@MarcoZ> askalski: Did you put ac_add_option --enable-tests in your .mozconfig? I think tests are not built by default.
  121. # [13:55] <@askalski> nope
  122. # [13:55] <@askalski> in either build
  123. # [13:55] <@askalski> this might be the case...
  124. # [13:57] <@askalski> yay, rebuilding again!
  125. # [13:57] <@askalski> feels like gentoo
  126. # [13:58] <@askalski> I think I start to do 50 pushups each time I rebuild. I'll be in olympic form in no-time!
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  133. # [14:07] <@tbsaunde> askalski: --test-level= DEBUG or INFO may be more useful
  134. # [14:07] * @tbsaunde has always had tests without explicitly enabling them
  135. # [14:08] <@tbsaunde> but I don't really know wht to tell you I don't have a scientific method for making them work when I need to run them locally I hit them with a hammer until they do what I need
  136. # [14:09] <@askalski> tbsaunde, so far I had tests by default too, today it was the first time it changed. can I pass this --test-level option to make instead of python?
  137. # [14:09] <@askalski> I mean, in the bug I fight description is "make sure mochitest passes" it's like "and make sure to fix European economy"
  138. # [14:11] <@tbsaunde> askalski: maybe, but I'm not sure how
  139. # [14:12] <@tbsaunde> askalski: I believe make runs the python script with the highest log level so I'm not sure there's much else you can turn on other than logging we do in the individual tests
  140. # [14:13] <@tbsaunde> askalski: it might be easier to just run the patch through try to find out which tests are broken
  141. # [14:13] <@tbsaunde> did we ever give you access btw
  142. # [14:13] <@askalski> tbsaunde, through try?
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  144. # [14:14] <@askalski> tbsaunde, nope, I still work as a outside contributor everywhere else than bugzilla
  145. # [14:15] <@askalski> at bugzilla I received some privileges
  146. # [14:16] <@tbsaunde> askalski: wiki.mozilla.org/ReleaseEngineering/TryServer
  147. # [14:17] <@tbsaunde> askalski: nad please follow wiki.mozilla.org/hacking/committer/
  148. # [14:18] <@tbsaunde> please tell me what the bug number is when you file :)
  149. # [14:19] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok, how to receive an account?
  150. # [14:19] <@askalski> O, I check my mail if I have one
  151. # [14:20] <@askalski> tbsaunde, no such page (the second address)
  152. # [14:22] <@tbsaunde> askalski: oh, weird its www.mozilla.org/hacking/committer/
  153. # [14:25] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok
  154. # [14:28] <@tbsaunde> askalski: best if you can deal with the bug in the next few minutes I need to head out soon
  155. # [14:29] <@askalski> tbsaunde, which bug?
  156. # [14:29] <@tbsaunde> askalski: filing the bug in the instructions
  157. # [14:30] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I still don't understand
  158. # [14:30] <@askalski> ah, repository access bug
  159. # [14:31] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok, I'm still not familiar with the policy that everything (including hardware request) is a bug in mozilla :)
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  161. # [14:33] <@tbsaunde> askalski: heh
  162. # [14:33] <@askalski> tbsaunde, level 1 is OK?
  163. # [14:34] <@tbsaunde> askalski: yes
  164. # [14:35] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok, I need to generate key. are there some limits in USA? I heard that Patriot Act made some key-lengths illegal
  165. # [14:36] <@tbsaunde> askalski: I'm not aware of any
  166. # [14:36] * @tbsaunde usually uses 2048 or 4096 bit rsa
  167. # [14:36] <@tbsaunde> which afaik is the default now, and I live in the US so shrug
  168. # [14:36] <@tbsaunde> I can't imagne you reall need more than 4096
  169. # [14:37] <@tbsaunde> askalski: but you can generatee it after filing the bug :)
  170. # [14:38] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I got the private, now I need to find out how to extract a public from it :D
  171. # [14:39] <@tbsaunde> askalski: ssh-keygen creates them at the same time
  172. # [14:39] <@askalski> I used something different
  173. # [14:39] <@askalski> but OK
  174. # [14:39] <@tbsaunde> and names the public key .pub
  175. # [14:39] <@tbsaunde> what?
  176. # [14:43] * @tbsaunde has to run
  177. # [14:43] * tbsaunde is now known as tbsaunde|afk
  178. # [14:45] <@askalski> tbsaunde|afk, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722292
  179. # [14:45] <@firebot> Bug 722292 nor, --, ---, mozillamarcia.knous, NEW, Commit Access (Level 1) for Andrzej Skalski
  180. # [14:57] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Component on bug 369710 from Widget: Cocoa to Disability Access APIs.
  181. # [14:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=369710 enh, --, mozilla12, hub, RESO FIXED, No talking alerts
  182. # [15:06] <@firebot> pallavikumarijha@gmail.com requested review from bolterbugz@gmail.co m for attachment 592681 on bug 589784.
  183. # [15:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589784 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove role="label" aria processing.
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  186. # [15:12] <@davidb> MarcoZ: saw your comment about backing out. I don't mind that happening at all. What are the issues?
  187. # [15:13] <@askalski> hi David!
  188. # [15:15] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Hi! The main issues are some issues Jamie brings up in bug 722248.
  189. # [15:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
  190. # [15:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: But I think there was one crash bug, but I'm not sure what the status of that is. This may be fixed.
  191. # [15:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And what also worries me is the string of comments that followed the last patch and which seem to point at various problems within the patch that landed.
  192. # [15:16] <@askalski> davidb, I requested for repo access, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722292
  193. # [15:16] <@firebot> Bug 722292 nor, --, ---, mozillamarcia.knous, NEW, Commit Access (Level 1) for Andrzej Skalski
  194. # [15:16] <@davidb> askalski: great
  195. # [15:17] <@davidb> MarcoZ: Timothy is working to remove views from gecko. I'm not sure why he is using that bug to have the conversation about finding alternate API.
  196. # [15:17] <@askalski> davidb, still having problems with tests, I did some checkouts and cleaning, rebuild (twice, a stupid mistake) and now I am redoing tests
  197. # [15:18] <@davidb> ok
  198. # [15:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Oh! And all the time I thought he was proposing that the patch that landed be changed/fixed to use a different API.
  199. # [15:18] <@davidb> MarcoZ: can you do a/b testing on bug 722248, before and after the invi fix?
  200. # [15:19] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Can do, but I'm pretty sure it's that bug.
  201. # [15:19] <@davidb> MarcoZ: well in a sense Timothy is suggesting that, but I'm not sure he knows we already used the views here.
  202. # [15:19] * Quits: Hixie (ianh@moz-E9FB2A6A.no) (Ping timeout)
  203. # [15:19] <@davidb> MarcoZ: probably is, but would be good to know.
  204. # [15:19] <@MarcoZ> Yup will do that in a bit, when I've finished my blog post about the progress on Mac.
  205. # [15:22] <@davidb> thanks
  206. # [15:22] * @davidb compiles a contributor patch
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  209. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Nice!
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  212. # [15:42] <@davidb> hi jhk
  213. # [15:42] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cancelled review?(bolterbugz@gmail.co m) for attachment 592681 on bug 589784.
  214. # [15:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589784 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove role="label" aria processing.
  215. # [15:43] <jhk> hi davidb
  216. # [15:43] <@davidb> jhk: what are you working on these days?
  217. # [15:43] <jhk> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=700538
  218. # [15:43] <@firebot> Bug 700538 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, nsHTMLEditor should override IsRootNode
  219. # [15:43] <@davidb> oho!
  220. # [15:43] <@davidb> good good
  221. # [15:44] <jhk> :)
  222. # [15:44] <@davidb> jhk: in this channel you can just type bug 700538, and firebot will auto link
  223. # [15:44] <@davidb> e.g. bug 123456
  224. # [15:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123456 is not accessible
  225. # [15:44] <@davidb> bah
  226. # [15:44] <@davidb> bug 654321
  227. # [15:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=654321 is not accessible
  228. # [15:44] <@davidb> heheh
  229. # [15:44] <@davidb> bug 432345
  230. # [15:45] <jhk> firebot works:)
  231. # [15:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=432345 nor, --, 3.0, steven, VERI FIXED, fix the Thunderbird/Releases page to match the new Mozilla.com look & feel
  232. # [15:45] <@davidb> :)
  233. # [15:45] <@firebot> jhk: Sorry, I've no idea what 'works:)' might be.
  234. # [15:49] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  235. # [15:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  236. # [15:50] <@MarcoZ> LOL
  237. # [15:50] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Info added. There were a few more a11y changesets that day, but bug 591363 is still the most likely. And all of the problems Jamie describes weren't present in the Jan 10 build that still worked, and all of them appear in the January 11 build.
  238. # [15:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591363 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, (in)visible state is not always correct?
  239. # [15:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Unless if you find out what the issues are and can fix them, I'd be also willing to keep it and request approval on aurora for the fix once we have it.
  240. # [15:52] <@MarcoZ> s/unless//
  241. # [15:52] <@davidb> MarcoZ: new, I'll comment that I agree to back out, on the bug.
  242. # [15:52] <@davidb> new/naw
  243. # [15:52] * @askalski going for lunch
  244. # [15:52] <@davidb> askalski: bon appetite
  245. # [15:53] <@davidb> MarcoZ: there was a follow up crash fix as well I think
  246. # [15:54] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes, just found it, bug 717505.
  247. # [15:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717505 cri, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, Crash [@ nsAccessible::VisibilityState] when closing a tab, depending on when accessibility was enab
  248. # [15:55] <@davidb> ok
  249. # [15:55] <@davidb> MarcoZ: thanks for keeping on top of this.
  250. # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> davidb: YW!
  251. # [16:00] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-828F8EEB.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Ping timeout)
  252. # [16:01] * Joins: askalski (akuda@moz-A5373222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  253. # [16:01] * ChanServ sets mode: +o askalski
  254. # [16:01] * Joins: Mark_Capella (chatzilla@moz-DD0C7E4F.twcny.res.rr.com)
  255. # [16:01] <@askalski> davidb, can we talk today on skype? I have some serious issues with test, I think I have exceeded all options that comes to my mind, I need to know what to do
  256. # [16:02] <@askalski> davidb, I'll be back in 20 mins
  257. # [16:02] <@davidb> yep i have a meeting in 65 minutes
  258. # [16:02] <@davidb> so before that
  259. # [16:02] <@davidb> askalski: ^
  260. # [16:05] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  261. # [16:06] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  262. # [16:10] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP)
  263. # [16:13] * Quits: Mark_Capella (chatzilla@moz-DD0C7E4F.twcny.res.rr.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 12.0a1/20120130061320])
  264. # [16:13] * @davidb rights a wrong
  265. # [16:19] <@MarcoZ> Bah, merge issues while trying to back out! :( And my resolver doesn't work.
  266. # [16:22] <@davidb> ycuk
  267. # [16:22] <@davidb> yuck
  268. # [16:23] <@askalski> ok, let me go somewhere noone interupts me and I call you in 5, ok?
  269. # [16:25] <@askalski> davidb, ok, anytime you're ready
  270. # [16:25] * @davidb looks for a room
  271. # [16:29] * Quits: mike5w3c (MikeS@moz-DAFE1A45.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: mike5w3c)
  272. # [16:30] <@davidb> MarcoZ: was Trev active earlier?
  273. # [16:31] <@MarcoZ> davidb: He was, discussing some stuff with askalski.
  274. # [16:35] * Joins: hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net)
  275. # [16:35] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  276. # [16:36] * Joins: mike5w3c (MikeS@moz-DAFE1A45.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  277. # [16:43] <@davidb> ok so I'm guessing sleep will override 1:1
  278. # [16:43] <@davidb> which is fine
  279. # [16:44] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from bolterbugz@gmail.co m for attachment 592711 on bug 589784.
  280. # [16:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589784 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove role="label" aria processing.
  281. # [16:45] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
  282. # [16:45] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP) (Input/output error)
  283. # [16:51] <@davidb> aha tbsaunde is back
  284. # [16:52] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yaa, was off at class
  285. # [16:52] <@davidb> ah
  286. # [16:53] * Joins: shorlander-away (shorlander@moz-853043D6.dhcp.insightbb.com)
  287. # [16:58] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  288. # [16:59] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah that backout is difficult somehow. Seems something else made a change afterwards to that code that we're not aware of, and which we may not want to back out in principal.
  289. # [16:59] <@davidb> hmm
  290. # [17:01] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I think it was Trev's roles:: cleanup patch
  291. # [17:01] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Ouch :(
  292. # [17:01] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Like I said, I'll review the rollback patch.
  293. # [17:01] <@MarcoZ> s/rollback/backout
  294. # [17:01] * @MarcoZ needs to completely re-clone his repo, busted it.
  295. # [17:02] <@davidb> ok
  296. # [17:03] * shorlander-away is now known as shorlander
  297. # [17:06] * Joins: richardschwerdtfeger (richardsch@moz-130F1494.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net)
  298. # [17:08] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  299. # [17:13] <@davidb> MarcoZ: how long are you around?
  300. # [17:14] <@davidb> how much longer
  301. # [17:14] <@davidb> today
  302. # [17:14] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@moz-A6FE435.build.sjc1.mozilla.com)
  303. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: GF is out of the house today, so can be until about 2:30 or 2:45 PM your time.
  304. # [17:18] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  305. # [17:18] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I'm tempted to try and fix bug 722248 today
  306. # [17:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
  307. # [17:19] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  308. # [17:20] <@tbsaunde> davidb: does it look that simple?
  309. # [17:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: possibly.
  310. # [17:21] <@tbsaunde> (I wouldn't really object to it getting fixed soon and getting approval for aurora)
  311. # [17:21] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Fine with me, too!
  312. # [17:25] <@askalski> I am finishing for today
  313. # [17:25] <@askalski> bye
  314. # [17:26] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-A5373222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  315. # [17:27] * @davidb tries something
  316. # [17:31] <@davidb> didn't work
  317. # [17:47] <@davidb> oh!
  318. # [17:47] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I was wrong. I introduce use of the view here.
  319. # [17:48] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Ah!
  320. # [17:48] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So?
  321. # [17:48] <@davidb> so I'm tinkering. removing it. adding back bits of previous
  322. # [17:51] <@davidb> ok heading for a quick lunch. i'll work up a fix patch after fuel.
  323. # [18:00] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  324. # [18:00] * Quits: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
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  326. # [18:02] * Joins: clown (clown@6EDD3027.A6295926.9D42CF23.IP)
  327. # [18:08] * @davidb brings back
  328. # [18:08] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  329. # [18:10] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-1B071F06.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Reboot. brb!)
  330. # [18:12] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  331. # [18:16] * Joins: MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-1B071F06.dip.t-dialin.net)
  332. # [18:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +o MarcoZ
  333. # [18:18] <@davidb> ok i think i got it
  334. # [18:18] * @davidb tidies and runs tests
  335. # [18:20] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Curious to see whatit'll be!
  336. # [18:20] <@davidb> the view was lying
  337. # [18:21] <@davidb> or more likely, i don't understand the expectations of the view methods
  338. # [18:23] <@davidb> woot! tests pass
  339. # [18:24] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  340. # [18:25] <@davidb> this probably over-corrects though. *thinking*
  341. # [18:33] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from bolterbugz@gmail.co m for attachment 592751 on bug 589784.
  342. # [18:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589784 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove role="label" aria processing.
  343. # [18:55] * Joins: askalski (akuda@moz-1276DE7A.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  344. # [18:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o askalski
  345. # [18:55] <@askalski> davidb, I got the script! it's working and useful!
  346. # [18:56] <@askalski> davidb, where to post it?
  347. # [18:56] <@tbsaunde> askalski: interesting what script did davidb know about?
  348. # [18:56] <@davidb> tbsaunde: github is fine
  349. # [18:57] <@davidb> oops
  350. # [18:57] <@davidb> askalski: ^
  351. # [18:57] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I created a smart diff to mochitest results. it ignores addresses and provides a diff-style output what changed
  352. # [18:58] <@tbsaunde> oic
  353. # [18:58] <@askalski> one command to find them all!
  354. # [19:00] <@davidb> :)
  355. # [19:05] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 592150 on bug 721772.
  356. # [19:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=721772 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Only accumulate ISimpleDOM usage bool for Telemetry once.
  357. # [19:07] * Joins: cbrodigan (christineb@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net)
  358. # [19:09] <@davidb> MarcoZ: patch coming in about 10 mins
  359. # [19:09] <@davidb> ditto Trev
  360. # [19:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ack
  361. # [19:12] <@askalski> https://github.com/askalski/moz-related
  362. # [19:12] <@davidb> MarcoZ: if you build a patch locally can you tell relatively if there is perf impact compared to trunk?
  363. # [19:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Not sure.
  364. # [19:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I can try.
  365. # [19:12] <@davidb> ok
  366. # [19:13] <@davidb> MarcoZ: when does uplift happen?
  367. # [19:13] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Tomorrow morning PST, probably between 6 and 8 some time.
  368. # [19:13] <@davidb> ok
  369. # [19:17] <@askalski> tbsaunde, posted link, check it out
  370. # [19:19] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  371. # [19:20] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 592765 on bug 722248.
  372. # [19:20] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 592765 on bug 722248.
  373. # [19:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
  374. # [19:20] <@tbsaunde> davidb: MarcoZ if I want a js function to take an optional arg that can be true or false how do you do this?
  375. # [19:20] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 592765 on bug 722248.
  376. # [19:20] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net) (Input/output error)
  377. # [19:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it is the wild west
  378. # [19:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ?
  379. # [19:22] <@davidb> suppose you have function foo(a)
  380. # [19:23] <@davidb> you can call foo("dog","cat");
  381. # [19:23] <@davidb> var optionalArg = arguments[1];
  382. # [19:23] <@davidb> inside foo def
  383. # [19:23] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Or the other way around, define function foo(a, b, c), but only call foo(x, y);.
  384. # [19:23] <@davidb> yeah
  385. # [19:24] <@davidb> wild west
  386. # [19:24] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from bolterbugz@gmail.co m for attachment 592768 on bug 589784.
  387. # [19:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589784 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove role="label" aria processing.
  388. # [19:25] * Parts: cbrodigan (christineb@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net)
  389. # [19:27] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Build is kicked off, but may take some time due to the merge/backout mess I had to deal with earlier.
  390. # [19:27] <@davidb> np
  391. # [19:27] <@tbsaunde> davidb: sure, but I do I know if that argument is undefined
  392. # [19:29] <@davidb> tbsaunde: can you just check it?
  393. # [19:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ?
  394. # [19:30] <@davidb> well, inside foo(a,b) what doe b equal if we call foo("hi");?
  395. # [19:32] <@tbsaunde> davidb: uh, I'm not sure isn't it undefined or something?
  396. # [19:32] <@davidb> tbsaunde, MarcoZ I should probably tweak my patch to get and check the shell just before used.
  397. # [19:32] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah i think so
  398. # [19:33] <@davidb> undefined is a keyword in js IIRC
  399. # [19:33] <@tbsaunde> davidb: what about adding tests?
  400. # [19:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i can't do that before uplift i don't think
  401. # [19:35] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Besides, the tests introduced in bug 591363 still pass.
  402. # [19:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591363 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, (in)visible state is not always correct?
  403. # [19:35] <@davidb> i can try but i don't want this partial revert to hold on more tests
  404. # [19:35] <@askalski> ok, now I go for real. bye
  405. # [19:35] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You do check the shell and return if it is not defined.
  406. # [19:35] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-1276DE7A.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  407. # [19:35] <@davidb> MarcoZ: yeah, but I've moved it locally to be after the frame check
  408. # [19:36] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Oh!
  409. # [19:36] <@davidb> i don't use the shell until after the frame ancestor call
  410. # [19:36] <@MarcoZ> I see!
  411. # [19:36] <@davidb> build and running tests now
  412. # [19:36] <@davidb> *ing
  413. # [19:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ugh :(
  414. # [19:37] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ugh to what specificall?
  415. # [19:37] <@davidb> y
  416. # [19:39] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  417. # [19:39] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  418. # [19:40] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not adding tests
  419. # [19:40] <@davidb> fair
  420. # [19:41] <@davidb> tbsaunde: the tests will come.
  421. # [19:42] <@davidb> ok confirmed tests still pass with my local change.
  422. # [19:42] <@davidb> i'll upload the new patch
  423. # [19:43] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 592765 on bug 722248.
  424. # [19:43] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) for attachment 592765 on bug 722248.
  425. # [19:43] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 592774 on bug 722248.
  426. # [19:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
  427. # [19:44] <@davidb> sigh
  428. # [19:44] <@davidb> forgot to qrefresh
  429. # [19:45] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 592774 on bug 722248.
  430. # [19:45] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 592776 on bug 722248.
  431. # [19:45] <@davidb> tbsaunde: do you still want to review this one without patches?
  432. # [19:45] <@davidb> errr tests
  433. # [19:45] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  434. # [19:46] <@davidb> MarcoZ: the one thing I didn't test manually was context menus. I'm curious to know how that goes.
  435. # [19:49] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'm not really sure
  436. # [19:50] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You can test that now if you want. Start NVDA, and on the nightly start page, tab to any of the links. Press the APPLICATIONS key. If NVDA says something about "Menu collapsed", the bug is still there. if it doesn't, you're good.
  437. # [19:50] <@MarcoZ> davidb: My build will still take a bit.
  438. # [19:50] <@davidb> MarcoZ: just tested. looks good.
  439. # [19:52] <@davidb> oh
  440. # [19:52] <@davidb> didn't see your comment about nvda… i'll try that as well (was using accprobe event watcher)
  441. # [19:54] <@davidb> MarcoZ: it just says "menu"
  442. # [19:55] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Nice!
  443. # [19:55] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  444. # [19:57] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested in-testsuite from the wind on bug 722248.
  445. # [19:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
  446. # [19:57] <@tbsaunde> davidb: the only thing in that patch that I think concerns me is it appears you return offscreen if IsVisibleConsideringAncestors() returns false
  447. # [19:59] <@davidb> true
  448. # [19:59] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@moz-A6FE435.build.sjc1.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
  449. # [20:00] <@tbsaunde> davidb: is that what you want to do? it seems that would make backround tabs invisible
  450. # [20:00] <@tbsaunde> which I thought nvda didn't like
  451. # [20:00] <@davidb> it makes the panels invisible but not the tabs
  452. # [20:01] <@tbsaunde> I'm not sure I understand that
  453. # [20:01] <@davidb> the tabs list is a sibling to the tab panels group
  454. # [20:01] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it would be safer to move the ancestor call to the end like we used to do.
  455. # [20:02] * Quits: mike5w3c (MikeS@moz-DAFE1A45.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: mike5w3c)
  456. # [20:03] <@tbsaunde> davidb: is there a reason not to do that?
  457. # [20:03] <@davidb> tbsaunde: I've now done it locally.
  458. # [20:03] <@davidb> tbsaunde: now the question is… do we want to check style visibility before all the more expensive rect stuff
  459. # [20:04] <@davidb> style visibility also happens to be checked in the frame ancestor call
  460. # [20:05] <@tbsaunde> I don't think I with it enough yet to be able to say
  461. # [20:05] * Quits: @hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP) (Ping timeout)
  462. # [20:06] <@tbsaunde> style not completely btter after cold :/
  463. # [20:06] <@davidb> ok
  464. # [20:07] <@tbsaunde> and I can't type either bleh
  465. # [20:07] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
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  467. # [20:09] * Quits: clown (clown@6EDD3027.A6295926.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  468. # [20:09] <@tbsaunde> is there any reasonable way to debug tests?
  469. # [20:10] <@davidb> there isn't a great story for that
  470. # [20:10] <@davidb> trace is probably your best bet
  471. # [20:10] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  472. # [20:11] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 592783 on bug 698823.
  473. # [20:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698823 nor, --, mozilla10, eitan, NEW, Introduce virtual cursor/soft focus functionality to a11y API
  474. # [20:11] <eeejay> bbiab
  475. # [20:12] <@davidb> tbsaunde: don't worry too much about NVDA for this particular bug, the main thing is to not regress them.
  476. # [20:13] <@davidb> with respect to the NVDA concern with background tabs, that's complicated.
  477. # [20:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok
  478. # [20:16] <@davidb> I'm not sure how to honour this: "Change Gecko to stop setting the invisible state on nodes in background tabs"
  479. # [20:18] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: I agree with davidb, the most important thing is that the new functionality remains intact and doesn't regress the newly introduced tests. And that is the case with this patch, so from the tests performed manually I'd say we're good.
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  482. # [20:20] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so I guess I have no concrete objections, but I'm not sure I want to r+ something that complicated right now and I'm not really thrilled about taking patches without tests
  483. # [20:20] <@davidb> tbsaunde: that's fair.
  484. # [20:20] <@tbsaunde> sorry I'm not really useful right now
  485. # [20:20] <@davidb> np
  486. # [20:22] <@davidb> ok everything checks out okay with the ancestor call after the offscreen stuff
  487. # [20:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I wont object if you land it with Marco's r+ or ask surkov
  488. # [20:23] <@davidb> ok
  489. # [20:24] <@davidb> this feels rushed, but it is a lot like a partial revert
  490. # [20:24] <@davidb> visibility state is a can of worms though
  491. # [20:25] <@davidb> tbsaunde: want me to cancel your review?
  492. # [20:26] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes that's really tricky. And if we find something, we can still ask approval up the chain if needed.
  493. # [20:26] <@davidb> yes we have time
  494. # [20:26] <@davidb> i want to see if talos picks up any regression too, so this should be interesting
  495. # [20:27] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I'm going to attach the final? patch
  496. # [20:29] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Very good! And please, throw it against try-server and see what Talos results you get!
  497. # [20:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yea
  498. # [20:30] <@davidb> ok
  499. # [20:32] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Hub: Quite some retweets of my new Mac progress report, and a good number of reads on the blog itself, too!
  500. # [20:32] <@hub> cool
  501. # [20:33] <@davidb> woot
  502. # [20:33] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cancelled review?(marco.zehe@googlema il.com) for attachment 592776 on bug 722248.
  503. # [20:33] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 592790 on bug 722248.
  504. # [20:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
  505. # [20:34] <@tbsaunde> so, one more test question do we have tests where we change the text in a focused node?
  506. # [20:34] <@davidb> I don't know off hand.
  507. # [20:35] <@firebot> acelists@atlas.sk changed the Status on bug 537569 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  508. # [20:35] <@firebot> acelists@atlas.sk set the Resolution field on bug 537569 to FIXED.
  509. # [20:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=537569 min, --, ---, nobody, RESO FIXED, File menu and Filter field in about:config have same accesskey
  510. # [20:36] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: I don't know off-hand, either.
  511. # [20:36] <@MarcoZ> Is there a particular reason for your question?
  512. # [20:38] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: so, I'm trying to add a workaround for bug 686909 in which we claim the event is from user input if the target is focused and editable
  513. # [20:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686909 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The system suffix is for system generated events only
  514. # [20:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov wants tests
  515. # [20:39] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: So what's the test case? A focused textfield whose text is being changed?
  516. # [20:39] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: yes
  517. # [20:42] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: I would not think there's a difference to a non-focused textbox. Or is there?
  518. # [20:43] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: if and only if its focused event.isFromUserInput should be true
  519. # [20:43] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: so there will be a difference that should be tested
  520. # [20:44] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: OK!
  521. # [20:44] <@tbsaunde> or I gues I could just check non focused / editable things and make sure its not true
  522. # [20:44] <@tbsaunde> the coverage isn't as good but easy to do and might make Alex happy
  523. # [20:44] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: And add a test where you sppecifically focus the item first before making text changes.
  524. # [20:45] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: yeah, I guess I could do that but ugh work
  525. # [20:49] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com granted review for attachment 592768 on bug 589784.
  526. # [20:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589784 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove role="label" aria processing.
  527. # [20:53] <@MarcoZ> OK, build is done, rebuilding with latest pach to see if there is a difference. Confirming the fix so far.
  528. # [20:53] <@davidb> man
  529. # [20:54] <@davidb> the more I dive back into the visibility stuff, the sadder i get
  530. # [20:54] <@davidb> I think this should have been a lot less clever from the beginning.
  531. # [20:54] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah
  532. # [20:54] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Heritage from the very old days?
  533. # [20:55] <@davidb> Yeah. I think what really matters to screen readers is programmatic intended visibility. Not rendered visibility.
  534. # [20:56] <@davidb> So anyways, in the meantime, we need to take this revert because we exposed the wrong state in some cases. My bad.
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  537. # [21:05] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 722417 filed by bolterbugz@gmail.com.
  538. # [21:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722417 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Expose intended visibility.
  539. # [21:06] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 592768 on bug 589784.
  540. # [21:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589784 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove role="label" aria processing.
  541. # [21:12] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 592790 on bug 722248.
  542. # [21:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
  543. # [21:13] <@davidb> MarcoZ: thanks
  544. # [21:14] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I made one small change locally
  545. # [21:14] <@davidb> hmmm
  546. # [21:14] <@davidb> naw
  547. # [21:14] <@MarcoZ> davidb: What change?
  548. # [21:15] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I added the style visibility check back near the top, because the early bail can save all that rect stuff, but i should really wait to see if talos tells me anything
  549. # [21:15] <@davidb> i haven't had an AT vendor tell me they use offscreen state yet
  550. # [21:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK!
  551. # [21:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Anyway I'm off now. I'll check back in the morning, and if the patch has all it needs from surkov etc., I'll volunteer to land it and see that it makes its way through to Aurora.
  552. # [21:17] <@davidb> MarcoZ: thanks.
  553. # [21:17] <@MarcoZ> See you!
  554. # [21:17] <@davidb> ciao
  555. # [21:18] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-1B071F06.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: g'night!)
  556. # [21:26] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 592790 on bug 722248.
  557. # [21:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
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  562. # [21:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: you added some unneeded blank lines in that last patch
  563. # [21:38] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah i removed them locally
  564. # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> davidb: sounds good
  565. # [21:46] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cancelled review?(bolterbugz@gmail.co m) for attachment 592711 on bug 589784.
  566. # [21:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=589784 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove role="label" aria processing.
  567. # [21:46] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com cancelled review?(bolterbugz@gmail.co m) for attachment 592751 on bug 589784.
  568. # [21:47] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com granted review for attachment 592768 on bug 589784.
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  572. # [22:14] * @davidb considers adding a visibility state test to test_contextmenu.html
  573. # [22:16] <@davidb> hmm
  574. # [22:18] <@tbsaunde> hmm, I'm seeing a lot of doubled event failures in test_focus_autocomplete
  575. # [22:19] <@davidb> tbsaunde: with what patch?
  576. # [22:19] <@davidb> or in general?
  577. # [22:19] <@tbsaunde> davidb: with my state one, but I'm pretty sure its unrelated
  578. # [22:19] <@tbsaunde> anyway I'll try and investigate later
  579. # [22:23] <@tbsaunde> GOD DAM IT JS
  580. # [22:25] <@davidb> tbsaunde: maybe we should keep you in C++
  581. # [22:25] <@davidb> which bug is this for?
  582. # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> 686909
  583. # [22:26] <@tbsaunde> I figured it out, I was doing aEvent.isFromUserInput() instead of aEvent.isFromUserInput
  584. # [22:26] <@tbsaunde> I just made because a reasonable language would have this be a type erorr or something
  585. # [22:27] <@tbsaunde> instead of raising an exception that it is undefined
  586. # [22:27] * @davidb nods sagely
  587. # [22:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: in the owe the poor people who don't understand dynamically typed langauges way? ;)
  588. # [22:29] <@davidb> hahah
  589. # [22:29] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@CB3EC984.A5F785DE.396E4C6D.IP) (Ping timeout)
  590. # [22:29] <@davidb> not this time
  591. # [22:29] <@tbsaunde> to be fair I try to avoid working on tests when I can
  592. # [22:29] <@davidb> however, dynamically typed languages really need TDD
  593. # [22:30] <@davidb> and we don't really do TDD
  594. # [22:30] <@davidb> speaking of js
  595. # [22:30] <@davidb> where the heck is synthesizeMouse defined?
  596. # [22:30] <@davidb> is that a language feature - i forget
  597. # [22:31] <@davidb> naw
  598. # [22:31] <@tbsaunde> grep is your friend ;)
  599. # [22:31] <@davidb> indeed
  600. # [22:31] <@hub> why debugging at compile time when you can have the users to it at runtime
  601. # [22:31] <@tbsaunde> I'd bet somewhere in our tests or simpletext
  602. # [22:31] <@davidb> yeah
  603. # [22:32] <@davidb> EventUtils.js
  604. # [22:32] <@tbsaunde> davidb: the trick is the main thing we have that's dynamically typed is the tests
  605. # [22:32] <@tbsaunde> and having tests for your tests is yoo dog
  606. # [22:32] <@davidb> true dat
  607. # [22:32] <@tbsaunde> I gues there's the build system, but most of that is string typed :p
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  610. # [22:35] <@davidb> ok I gotta do the thing. back much later.
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The end :)