/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-02-01 / end
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- # Session Start: Wed Feb 01 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [00:50] <@hub> test_anchor is the first one to fail
- # [00:50] <@hub> it times out
- # [01:07] <@tbsaunde> hub: yeah
- # [01:08] <@tbsaunde> hub: did you just figure that out? :( I saw that was the problem an hour or two ago
- # [01:14] <@hub> nah not just now
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- # [01:25] <Jamie> hmm. does everywhere except Australi ahave IPV6 now? :)
- # [01:25] <Jamie> surkov: morning.
- # [01:25] <@surkov> morning, Jamie
- # [01:26] <@hub> Jamie: Canada does not have IPv6 either
- # [01:30] <khuey> does Canada have IPv4 yet?
- # [01:31] <@hub> khuey: if the telco could have gotten away without it, they would have
- # [01:34] * Jamie chuckles
- # [01:35] <Jamie> surkov: regarding the perf problem when setting aria role, I used this in a Twitter Greasemonkey script which makes focused tweets "accessible" on the fly by tweaking aria properties
- # [01:35] <Jamie> surkov: if you say it regenerates the subtree when you change the role, this makes sense
- # [01:37] <Jamie> surkov: it can take up to half a second in this particular case, though perf seems to degrade over time. however, this is a pretty rare use of aria
- # [01:37] <Jamie> problem si I can't come up with a way to isolate it, as usual
- # [01:39] <@surkov> Jamie, ok, I'll take a look at this script
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- # [01:39] <Jamie> surkov: I've now disabled the setting of aria role, which makes it behave
- # [01:40] <@tbsaunde> Jamie: CMU isn't ipv6 either, and my impression is big US internet providers haven't really switched much
- # [01:40] <@surkov> I see
- # [01:41] <@tbsaunde> I wonder if we can / if it is worth optimizing that
- # [01:41] * Jamie is just trying to see if he can isolate it
- # [01:42] <Jamie> arrg. when did the web console lose the ability to tab around?
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- # [01:55] <Jamie> surkov: damn. can't seem to isolate it. just extracted the content of the div and wacked it into a separate file, but changing the role doesn't seem to lag there
- # [01:55] <Jamie> surkov: I wonder whether it's somehow greasemonkey specific... but seems unlikely
- # [01:57] <@surkov> hm
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- # [02:03] <@tbsaunde> Jamie: the div doesn't have chldren?
- # [02:03] <@tbsaunde> also, wtb decent js profiler
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- # [02:09] <Jamie> tbsaunde: yeah, it has plenty of children
- # [02:09] <Jamie> tbsaunde: but it seems not enough to cause a problem normally
- # [02:11] <@tbsaunde> Jamie: normally?
- # [02:15] <@tbsaunde> Jamie: I mean what are your "normal" conditions
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- # [02:16] <Jamie> tbsaunde: er, sorry. :) I mean it works fine when I test isolated, but when I do it in the greasemonkey script (real world), it lags
- # [02:17] <Jamie> tbsaunde: but there are probably other factors at play in the "real world" test, such as other JavaScript I'm not aware of. what I can say is that if I take out the bit that sets the role, it behaves with no lag
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- # [02:25] <Jamie> weee! 795 wpm :)
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- # [02:37] <@tbsaunde> Jamie: ugh
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- # [03:15] <@tbsaunde> firebot: do you only work during the day?
- # [03:15] <@firebot> tbsaunde: Sorry, I've no idea what 'do you only work during the day' might be.
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- # [08:12] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
- # [08:12] <@MarcoZ> surkov: With the re-landing of bug 707654, bug 720393 has returned full force. :(
- # [08:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=707654 nor, --, mozilla12, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, embeds relation on root accessible can return not content document
- # [08:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=720393 maj, --, ---, nobody, VERI FIXED, NVDA's virtual buffer often breaks with iFrames, started January 23, 2012 build.
- # [08:13] <@surkov> what's going on
- # [08:14] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I think we should ask Jamie to look at that build
- # [08:18] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Agreed. And it's strange, I could reproduce it once, but now I can't. Right after the update to yesterday's nightly, I saw it, but now, after restarting it, I no longer see it so far. Will keep an eye out.
- # [08:19] <@surkov> ok
- # [08:20] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Wait, this is strange, my dialog shows I'm still on Monday's build. Need to see what's going on here, I thought it had just updated.
- # [08:21] <@surkov> it seems we have problem that appears randomly
- # [08:21] <@MarcoZ> surkov: OK, seems to have been a fluke and a false alarm. I'm still on Monday's build, didn't even get an update offer yet. Sorry for the noise!
- # [08:22] <@surkov> it's not a noise , it's ring bell there's something wrong
- # [08:26] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Any thoughts about the mochitest failures in bug 672504? I looked at the logs, and to me it almost sounds like a crash or hang of some sort that happens right in the first test file.
- # [08:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672504 nor, --, mozilla13, hub, ASSI, Don't keep pointer to weak presshell in accessible
- # [08:27] <@surkov> I didn't look at them. I'd guess hub needs to debug
- # [08:27] <@MarcoZ> Yup.
- # [08:34] <@hub> yep I need to debug :-/
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- # [10:40] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so actually I've been seeing some weird behaviour with what I believe are iframes on blackboard but interestingly reloading the page genrally helps
- # [10:40] <@tbsaunde> sadly they aren't public pages and I'm not really sure how to debug
- # [10:40] <@surkov> we need testcase
- # [10:40] <@surkov> e
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- # [10:41] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, that would be nice
- # [10:41] <@surkov> or str
- # [10:41] <@tbsaunde> a regression window might be nice too
- # [10:42] <@tbsaunde> str are kind of hard when the only test case I know of isn't public :p
- # [10:42] <@tbsaunde> mostly that was just fyi and I tend to think it isn't your patches fault
- # [10:43] <@surkov> ok
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- # [13:01] <@marcoz> Now completely switched to my new work environment with the MacBook only. \-O-/
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- # [14:27] <@davidb> heyo
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- # [14:33] <@davidb> marcoz: I'm in contact with Ken Saunders discussing Mozilla accessibility web presence.
- # [14:34] <@davidb> will discuss at the meeting
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- # [15:09] <@marcoz> davidb: This sounds really cool! Would be great if he had time or resources to do it!
- # [15:10] <@davidb> marcoz: yes
- # [15:13] <@marcoz> Ouch, nightly is crashing for me on startup. Own build. Seems something is busted.
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- # [15:15] <@davidb> marcoz: got a crash link?
- # [15:15] <@davidb> i guess not
- # [15:15] <@davidb> oh man
- # [15:15] <@davidb> rdp is too slow on this connection
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- # [15:42] <@MarcoZ> This is better.
- # [15:42] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I have no crash link for you, because this is with a local build I made directly from the accessibility branch that I had just updated with latest m-c changes.
- # [15:43] <@davidb> MarcoZ: on mac?
- # [15:46] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes.
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- # [16:08] <@MarcoZ> Wow, that was a quick Windows reboot, eh?
- # [16:08] <@davidb> heh
- # [16:08] <@davidb> yes
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- # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> And all because of a good fast computer. I finally retired my 4 year old PC bucket today and am using the MBP and virtual machines exclusively now.
- # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: ^
- # [16:17] <@davidb> good call
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- # [16:20] <@MarcoZ> Yay, I am using SeaMonkey for ChatZilla now, and background ChatZilla tabs no longer leak through. Very nice!
- # [16:20] <@MarcoZ> The XULRunner CZ I was using before was only running on the 3.6.x versions, which still had the problem.
- # [16:28] <@davidb> OK meeting in about 8 minutes on vidyo. It won't be a full house today.
- # [16:30] * @davidb tweaks agenda
- # [16:35] * @davidb hunts headset
- # [16:35] <@hub> who are we missing?
- # [16:35] <@davidb> surkov and andrzej
- # [16:37] <@davidb> tbsaunde: dial in if you can
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- # [16:40] <@davidb> tbsaunde: did we lose you?
- # [16:50] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, phone ran out of juice
- # [16:50] <@hub> :-(
- # [16:50] <@tbsaunde> I planned to go home last night and charge it but that didn't end up happening
- # [16:51] <@tbsaunde> yeah, you want anything from me?
- # [16:52] <@davidb> tbsaunde: just your continued awesomeness
- # [16:53] <@davidb> tbsaunde: let me know if you want me to audible anything to the team
- # [16:53] <@tbsaunde> :p no
- # [17:06] <@davidb> tbsaunde: so, a brief summary
- # [17:06] <@davidb> Ken Saunders might be adding his energy to helping our web presence
- # [17:07] <@davidb> Ken runs http://www.accessfirefox.org/
- # [17:07] <@davidb> We rounded up our status and updates. No major surprises.
- # [17:08] <@davidb> Surkov and Andrzej couldn't make this call.
- # [17:08] <@davidb> We're going to see how we like using this communication tool: http://weeklyupdates.mozillacloud.org/
- # [17:09] <@davidb> Please give it a whirl
- # [17:09] <@davidb> Marco mentioned contact with some people doing a TTS thing for FF.
- # [17:09] <@tbsaunde> oic
- # [17:11] <@davidb> MarcoZ: reading over your recent blog. Did you mean to write "depricated IAccessible2 methods"?
- # [17:11] <@davidb> I think you meant ISimpleDOM*
- # [17:12] <@davidb> not sure
- # [17:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: We have both telemetry for iSimpleDOM and also depricated iAccessible2 stuff like the older table interface, people are supposed to use IAccessibleTable2 now.
- # [17:12] <@davidb> ah ok
- # [17:12] <@davidb> I had a scoping error
- # [17:13] <@davidb> This is about all our telemetry ok
- # [17:13] <@MarcoZ> Yes.
- # [17:13] * @MarcoZ needs to ping bsmedberg, I know my user name, but not my password.
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- # [17:14] <@davidb> it is probably 'ohnonotanotherreportingtool'
- # [17:14] <@MarcoZ> LOL
- # [17:14] <@hub> he should use browserid instead
- # [17:14] <@MarcoZ> Indeed!
- # [17:15] <@davidb> true
- # [17:16] <@tbsaunde> its probably one of the lines apg spewed out
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- # [18:14] <@MarcoZ> Nightly is now on 13.
- # [18:16] <@hub> it is
- # [18:20] <@davidb> Dan Marino
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- # [19:05] <@MarcoZ> Anything anyone else needs from me today?
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- # [19:54] <aaronlev> am i visible?
- # [19:56] <@tbsaunde> aaronlev: visible?
- # [19:57] <aaronlev> cool
- # [19:59] <@tbsaunde> davidb: does any actually use that status thing? I don't see anything more recent than middle of 2010
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- # [20:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hmmm maybe this is the better link http://benjamin.smedbergs.us/weekly-updates.fcgi/posts
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- # [20:23] <@tbsaunde> oic
- # [20:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: that seems fun I gues but I wonder what its useful for
- # [20:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: just communication
- # [20:27] <@tbsaunde> I'd think you could generate most of it from logs of what bugzilla did
- # [20:27] <@davidb> if you add your email address in settings, you can get updates from the teams you care about
- # [20:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: there is a plans sections - future stuff
- # [20:28] <@davidb> I certainly wouldn't try to enforce this, but I'm curious if it can help us.
- # [20:28] <@davidb> hi aaronlev
- # [20:28] <@tbsaunde> yeah, I guess?
- # [20:28] * @tbsaunde shrugs
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- # [20:33] * aaronlev messes around with eeejay's code
- # [20:33] <@eeejay> that's what it is there for
- # [20:42] <aaronlev> I hope you realize i'm basically learning python this wya
- # [20:42] <aaronlev> You'd do me a favor if you review my checkin :)
- # [20:42] <aaronlev> once it's there
- # [20:43] <aaronlev> I'm using pydev
- # [20:45] <@tbsaunde> learn python bah, you just write something that seems reasonable and hit it with a hammer till it works
- # [20:47] <aaronlev> i have the unpopular opinion so far that i like java better ... like the typing and all that comes with it in the IDE
- # [20:47] <aaronlev> i'm sure i'll learn to love python later
- # [20:48] <@tbsaunde> in my mind the question is which is worse
- # [20:48] <@tbsaunde> and I think java suffers from not having a clear use case
- # [20:49] <@tbsaunde> if I'm going to deal with java I could just write C++
- # [20:49] <aaronlev> java helps with mem management and less dangerous in terms of memory overwrites
- # [20:50] <@davidb> java is write once, fix everywhere
- # [20:50] <aaronlev> that's for the client
- # [20:50] <@davidb> true
- # [20:50] <@davidb> I admit was most productive in java.
- # [20:51] <@davidb> Build XYZ. Okay I'll have that for you in a few days.
- # [20:52] <@tbsaunde> aaronlev:certainly technically true, but I'm not convinced practically that big a deal
- # [20:56] <aaronlev> Eclipse just worked well with it
- # [20:56] <aaronlev> it helps if the tools are good
- # [20:57] <@davidb> yes that set up is quite nice
- # [20:59] <@davidb> but really, everything should be written in scheme
- # [21:00] <@tbsaunde> itym witespace
- # [21:06] <@tbsaunde> davidb: want anything from me today? I'm about to head for a while
- # [21:06] <@davidb> tbsaunde: I wonder if you still have an r? on eeejay's patch
- # [21:06] <@davidb> but yeah, nothing urgent
- # [21:06] <@eeejay> nope
- # [21:06] <@davidb> ok!
- # [21:06] * @eeejay double checks
- # [21:07] <@eeejay> oh yeah, you do...
- # [21:07] <@davidb> bug 698823
- # [21:07] <@eeejay> should i just move it to alex's queue?
- # [21:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698823 nor, --, mozilla10, eitan, NEW, Introduce virtual cursor/soft focus functionality to a11y API
- # [21:07] <@davidb> eeejay: i think so
- # [21:07] <@eeejay> k
- # [21:09] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: please
- # [21:09] <@eeejay> done
- # [21:09] <@tbsaunde> I assumed they were already morally there
- # [21:09] <@eeejay> firebot, get with it
- # [21:09] <@firebot> eeejay: Sorry, I've no idea what 'get with it' might be.
- # [21:09] <@eeejay> spiritually speaking
- # [21:09] <@tbsaunde> firebot: you suck
- # [21:09] <@firebot> tbsaunde: no, *yousuck!
- # [21:09] <@davidb> firebot: do you?
- # [21:10] * @firebot does
- # [21:10] <@eeejay> hehe
- # [21:10] * @eeejay needs to learn to be awesome with firebot too
- # [21:10] <@davidb> what the
- # [21:10] <@davidb> oh
- # [21:10] * davidb sets mode: +o aaronlev
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- # [22:04] <@davidb> eeejay: you are right about tests.
- # [22:04] <@eeejay> davidb, i know
- # [22:04] <@eeejay> haha
- # [22:04] <@davidb> :)
- # [22:04] <@davidb> glad to hear it
- # [22:04] <@davidb> I've spoken similar words
- # [22:05] <@davidb> eeejay: btw http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/tests/mochitest/browser.js
- # [22:05] <@hub> so it seems that our test fail because SimpleTest.finish() is never called (with my patch)
- # [22:05] <@hub> as to why, that's what I'm trying to figure out
- # [22:05] <@davidb> I hate it when that happens
- # [22:05] <@eeejay> speaking of tests, aaronlev is resuscitating speclenium, something i was originally skeptical if
- # [22:05] <@hub> learning both mochitest and javascript at the same time
- # [22:06] <@hub> the hard way£
- # [22:06] <@hub> hard way™
- # [22:06] <@davidb> eeejay, aaronlev it would be great to utilize it for gecko as well
- # [22:07] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah, alex started a thread about that recently
- # [22:07] <@davidb> hub, eeejay I'm sort of sad that our mochitests are a little too clever sometimes.
- # [22:07] <@davidb> eeejay: where?
- # [22:07] * @eeejay gets it
- # [22:08] <@eeejay> i don't see browser.js in my checkout here...
- # [22:08] <@hub> davidb: I already added one check for a failure
- # [22:08] <@davidb> eeejay: in /tests
- # [22:08] <@davidb> hub: have you tried using the debug dump global?
- # [22:08] <@eeejay> forwarded
- # [22:08] <@davidb> eeejay: thanks
- # [22:09] <@hub> davidb: how do I do that?
- # [22:09] <@davidb> I was cc'ed already?
- # [22:09] <@davidb> hub: 1 min
- # [22:09] <@davidb> hub: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?find=%2Faccessible%2Ftests%2Fmochitest%2F&string=debug
- # [22:09] <@davidb> you can use console or specify an element in the test file
- # [22:09] <@davidb> for the dump
- # [22:10] <@hub> ah these
- # [22:10] <@eeejay> davidb, there is a whole thread of that, do you want me to continue forwarding stuff?
- # [22:10] <@davidb> eeejay: i'm wondering why I am shown on the cc but i don't see the email anywhere
- # [22:10] <@davidb> oho!
- # [22:10] <@davidb> found it
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- # [22:11] <@davidb> ok november yeah
- # [22:12] <@davidb> i bet Andzej would enjoy speclenium work
- # [22:12] <@eeejay> ooh, i don't see it becuase i need to update my working copy, iu guess
- # [22:13] <@davidb> mebbe
- # [22:14] * @eeejay pulls/rebases/builds
- # [22:14] <@davidb> eeejay: is the last message in that thread from clint?
- # [22:15] <@eeejay> davidb, yep
- # [22:15] <@davidb> ok this sounds like a really good Q2 goal to me
- # [22:15] <@davidb> we can plan it during out work week
- # [22:15] * @eeejay nods
- # [22:15] <@eeejay> especially with aaronlev doing some of the lifting :)
- # [22:15] <@davidb> srsly
- # [22:16] <@eeejay> i don't know anything about mozilla automated qa, but i remember talking to some mozillian selenium hackers
- # [22:17] * @davidb updates https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Planning/Goals
- # [22:18] <@davidb> eeejay: mozmill?
- # [22:18] <@eeejay> yeah, but selenium
- # [22:19] <@eeejay> i think i am going to step out for lunch
- # [22:19] <@davidb> bon appetite
- # [22:20] * @davidb renames goal to "Regression Smackdown"
- # [22:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I don't think I've seen that thread either
- # [22:23] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you weren't on it
- # [22:24] * @tbsaunde thinks life would be easier Alex just cc'd dev-accessibility or something
- # [22:24] <@davidb> yeah
- # [22:24] <@davidb> we need to do that more
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The end :)