/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-02-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Feb 02 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  20. # [02:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: hi
  21. # [02:06] <@hub> so, apparently the weakshell -> presshell patch is eating up the focus events
  22. # [02:06] <@hub> which is why the mochitest fail
  23. # [02:06] <@hub> (actually the scroll start event)
  24. # [02:08] <@surkov> something was missed :)
  25. # [02:08] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hi?
  26. # [02:08] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I bet you have a lot of unhanded patches?
  27. # [02:08] <@surkov> unlanded
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  29. # [02:08] <@surkov> wonder if you could land them asap
  30. # [02:08] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think only the access node thing
  31. # [02:08] <@tbsaunde> why would I?
  32. # [02:09] <@tbsaunde> I can get that done later today probably
  33. # [02:09] <@surkov> I'm not sure which code is fixed by your patches and which code is not, I would like to find good-first-bugs but that stops me
  34. # [02:09] <@surkov> sounds good
  35. # [02:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you removed a lot of nsIAccessible/QueryInterface usages, is that landed already, right?
  36. # [02:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: some but I think that landed
  37. # [02:12] <@tbsaunde> I'll look later today
  38. # [02:12] <@tbsaunde> I just got up and need to do some stuff
  39. # [02:12] <@surkov> ok, it'd be nice if you can make sure your queue doesn't have ready/almost ready unhanded stuffs :)
  40. # [02:12] <@surkov> thanks!
  41. # [02:16] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  42. # [02:16] <@tbsaunde> ok
  43. # [02:18] <@tbsaunde> btw I've tried to do the same thing off and on and not really come up with many good ideas so good luck :)
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  45. # [02:33] <@surkov> Jamie: hi
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  48. # [03:08] <@surkov> eeejay: you don't have an access?
  49. # [03:08] <@eeejay> surkov, nope. it is my personal q1 goal :)
  50. # [03:09] <@surkov> ok :)
  51. # [03:09] <@surkov> I'll land it then
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  61. # [03:52] <@tbsaunde> surkov: oh, there is some random decom stuff in mac/ not sure if hub wants to do that though
  62. # [03:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you mean to keep for goodfirstbug?
  63. # [03:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, they'd be pretty easy ones I think
  64. # [03:54] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that it makes sense to file bugs for them
  65. # [03:55] <@surkov> new contributors are active these days
  66. # [03:56] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, just haven't had time
  67. # [03:56] <@tbsaunde> or you could its the obvious sort of stuff getUnignoredParent / children
  68. # [03:56] <@surkov> sure, when you get a minute then please
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  71. # [05:26] <Jamie> surkov: hi. :)
  72. # [05:26] * Jamie is around now
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  75. # [05:30] <@surkov> Jamie, I wonder how we should proceed with menus that have own windows too
  76. # [05:31] <Jamie> surkov: you mean bug 670087?
  77. # [05:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670087 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, AccessibleObjectFromPoint returns incorrect accessible for popup menus
  78. # [05:32] <@surkov> maybe not
  79. # [05:32] <@surkov> ah yes
  80. # [05:32] <@surkov> I guess the fix might be the same
  81. # [05:32] <Jamie> surkov: I provided two solutions in that bug
  82. # [05:33] <Jamie> surkov: the same? What problem are you referring to (aside from that one)?
  83. # [05:33] <@surkov> plugin stuffs
  84. # [05:33] <@surkov> to return embed accessible object for that window
  85. # [05:33] <Jamie> surkov: mm, that is a little different
  86. # [05:33] <Jamie> surkov: the problem with plugins is that they don't naturally link into the gecko a11y tree. menus do.
  87. # [05:34] <Jamie> surkov: whether you need to do that depends on whether anyone will ever know that there is a separate window
  88. # [05:34] <@surkov> I mean that code that returns embed accessible for plugin window will return menupopup accessible for menu window I guess
  89. # [05:34] <Jamie> ah, yes, that is true
  90. # [05:35] <@surkov> and it seems this is one of solutions in bug 670087
  91. # [05:35] <Jamie> although that depends whether accHitTest will be implemented differently for menupopups
  92. # [05:35] <@surkov> I mean this solution: The MozillaDropShadowWindowClass window should return the popup menu accessible as its client. This menu accessible should answer IAccessible::accHitTest correctly for the menu and its items.
  93. # [05:36] <@surkov> ok, I wanted to make sure if we return menupopup for menu window is ok :)
  94. # [05:36] <@surkov> I wasn't sure before you pointed a bug to me
  95. # [05:38] <Jamie> ah, sorry. gotcha. that's perfectly fine and I believe is the correct behaviour
  96. # [05:38] <Jamie> the only thing I'm concerned about is embed element returning the wrapper HWND for IAccessible2::windowHandle because it'll break NVDA's obj-in-doc check
  97. # [05:39] <Jamie> that doesn't matter for DropShadow menus because they're not part of a document
  98. # [05:39] <Jamie> of course, it's possible for WM_GETOBJECT to return an accessible which reports a different HWND. it's just asymmetrical is all
  99. # [05:44] <Jamie> weird. Firefox is no longer prompting for admin privs to update
  100. # [05:44] <Jamie> that concerns me just a little ..
  101. # [05:47] <@surkov> yeah, I'll keep document HWND for those
  102. # [05:48] <Jamie> surkov: should bug 722248 (i.e. the bug, before the patch landed) have broken position information as well? I noticed position info was broken for some controls around the same time I noticed the visibility state problems, but now it's fixed
  103. # [05:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, RESO FIXED, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
  104. # [05:49] <Jamie> I mean, taht's a good thing, but just curious
  105. # [05:55] <@surkov> Jamie, that could be be related, what's your suggestion exactly?
  106. # [05:56] <Jamie> surkov: well, position info for tabs and menus in thunderbird was missing, and menus were reporting the collapsed state when they shouldn't. this is now fixed
  107. # [05:56] <@surkov> Jamie: it makes sense to add a comment asking for adding tests for that, what else?
  108. # [05:57] <Jamie> surkov: nothing. I just didn't understand how visibility states could affect position info/collapsed state is all
  109. # [05:58] <@surkov> Jamie: technically it shouldn't or it makes sense to file new bug asking for mochitests, could you do that perhaps?
  110. # [06:01] <Jamie> btw, is mochitest a unit testing framework or is it more system testing? does Mozilla do unit testing as well?
  111. # [06:06] <@surkov> I think it's closer to unit testing
  112. # [06:13] <Jamie> surkov: my understanding is that you do stuff in the tests and assert that Gecko responds in the way you expect, but not really so much about calling functions to see if you get expected values
  113. # [06:14] <@surkov> it's closer to 2nd that to 1st
  114. # [06:15] <@surkov> but in mochitest we do testing by XPCOM layer
  115. # [06:15] <@surkov> so we don't test MSAA or whatever else
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  119. # [06:36] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
  120. # [06:36] <hamidhi> Hii
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  122. # [06:39] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: Thanks for your additional info on bug 722248! I believe what you were seeing is a different side of the same bug.
  123. # [06:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, VERI FIXED, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
  124. # [06:40] <@MarcoZ> Hi surkov, hub!
  125. # [06:41] <@MarcoZ> Hi eeejay, tbsaunde! :)
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  129. # [06:50] <@tbsaunde> hi MarcoZ
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  137. # [07:11] <Jamie> MarcoZ: ok. was just trying to figure how visibility and position info/collapsed could be related :)
  138. # [07:15] <@surkov> hi, MarcoZ
  139. # [07:26] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: That code is pretty complex and relies on a lot of stuff from other Gecko modules. And apparently, the API we were using was, aside from being on the verge of getting depricated, giving us some wrong info there.
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  146. # [07:51] <Jamie> MarcoZ: fair enough. Well, I'm really glad it's fixed. Thanks to everyone.
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  156. # [08:46] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, only thing I have to land is the patch I just attached for bug 672507
  157. # [08:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672507 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, merge nsIAccessNode and nsIAccessible
  158. # [08:47] <@surkov> tbsaunde: excellent
  159. # [08:47] <@tbsaunde> surkov: do you want to look at that patch or should I just push it?
  160. # [08:48] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what do you mean by to look at?
  161. # [08:48] <@surkov> ah, no, just push it
  162. # [08:49] * @surkov was confused by "look at" because the patch was r+ :)
  163. # [08:50] <@surkov> it sounds today is landing day
  164. # [08:50] <@surkov> 3 patches were landed today, one of them is Eitan's one
  165. # [08:51] <@MarcoZ> Yay!
  166. # [08:52] <@tbsaunde> surkov: it wouldn't be the first time I attached a patch after you r+d it and you made comments ;)
  167. # [08:53] <@surkov> yeah, I see :)
  168. # [08:53] <@tbsaunde> but once hg pull finishes sitting around doing nothing I will
  169. # [08:53] <@surkov> :)
  170. # [09:02] <@tbsaunde> man its nice when resolving conflicts is just deleting everything between the conflict markers
  171. # [09:04] <@MarcoZ> Heh
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  173. # [09:06] <@surkov> I bet
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  175. # [09:11] <@MarcoZ> Is short of writing a really ranty blog post about the HTML5 accessibility efforts. If you read the tweets from Jonas Sicking @sikcingj from earlier today, also his replies to @SteveFaulkner, you'll see what I mean.
  176. # [09:11] <@MarcoZ> When all the accessibility community members on that list nowadays are capable of doing is putting "stop" here and there, that's NOT good and NOT progressive.
  177. # [09:13] * @tbsaunde finds is a really way to start a senence
  178. # [09:28] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Re bug 723420, I get patch hunk failures when trying to apply this against current mozilla-central.
  179. # [09:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723420 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Don't make sure the root accessible is created when window gets focused
  180. # [09:28] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it's built on top of other patch, I'll put try server build link soon
  181. # [09:28] <@MarcoZ> surkov: This is only removing some stuff that doesn't get executed any more anyway, right?
  182. # [09:29] <@surkov> it gets executed but it doesn't make sense to execute these things
  183. # [09:29] <@MarcoZ> surkov: OK I'll wait for the try-server build.
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  185. # [09:31] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org changed the Status on bug 722248 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  186. # [09:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722248 nor, --, mozilla12, bolterbugz, VERI FIXED, Some chrome accessibles report incorrect visibility states
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  188. # [09:34] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 672504 from --- to mozilla13.
  189. # [09:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672504 nor, --, mozilla13, hub, ASSI, Don't keep pointer to weak presshell in accessible
  190. # [09:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it sounds like your patch contains some .rej files
  191. # [09:35] <@surkov> like nsApplicationAccessibleWrap.cpp.rej
  192. # [09:35] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 723420 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  193. # [09:35] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from roc@ocallahan.org for attachment 593738 on bug 723420.
  194. # [09:36] <@firebot> roc@ocallahan.org granted review for attachment 593738 on bug 723420.
  195. # [09:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but inbound land seems to be ok
  196. # [09:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I just caught that happened and hopefully fixed
  197. # [09:37] <@surkov> ok
  198. # [09:37] <@tbsaunde> rej fiels are the worst thing :(
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  201. # [09:52] * @tbsaunde prodes firebot with a stick
  202. # [09:55] <@tbsaunde> surkov: thoughts on things to look at for easy bugs?
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  209. # [10:22] <@tbsaunde> jhk: hi
  210. # [10:23] <jhk> hi tbsaunde
  211. # [10:23] <@tbsaunde> jhk: how busy are you these days?
  212. # [10:24] <jhk> writing tests for bug 596515
  213. # [10:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596515 enh, --, ---, mounir, NEW, Add a possibility of styling form:invalid
  214. # [10:25] <@tbsaunde> jhk: ok, looking for other stuff?
  215. # [10:25] <jhk> easy stuff...;)
  216. # [10:25] <jhk> yes
  217. # [10:25] <@tbsaunde> jhk: ok, let me check something out
  218. # [10:30] <@tbsaunde> jhk: you might want to take a look at bug 542039
  219. # [10:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=542039 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, nsIFrame should return accessible type
  220. # [10:30] <@tbsaunde> its pretty simple but kind of big
  221. # [10:30] <@tbsaunde> I don't really expect any complications but who knows :)
  222. # [10:32] <@tbsaunde> jhk: interested have trouble understanding what's going on?
  223. # [10:32] <jhk> looking..:)
  224. # [10:34] <@tbsaunde> jhk: I think all you need to do is replace CreateAccessible() with getAccessibleType()
  225. # [10:35] <@tbsaunde> the discussion and wip look pretty old and may be mroe confusing than helpful
  226. # [10:35] <@tbsaunde> atleast that's my gues
  227. # [10:35] <jhk> ok...this looks fun...
  228. # [10:35] <@tbsaunde> :D
  229. # [10:37] <@tbsaunde> jhk: its probably best to wait on starting till bug 673405 lands
  230. # [10:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=673405 cri, --, ---, hub, NEW, Rename GetDocAccessible() to Document()
  231. # [10:37] <@tbsaunde> well, more importantly bug 672504
  232. # [10:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=672504 nor, --, mozilla13, hub, ASSI, Don't keep pointer to weak presshell in accessible
  233. # [10:40] <jhk> tbsaunde: hmm....great...till then my tests work will over...
  234. # [10:47] <@tbsaunde> jhk: sorry not sure I understand
  235. # [10:49] <jhk> after landing 673405 and 672504. I will start working on 542039
  236. # [10:50] <@tbsaunde> ok, cool
  237. # [11:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: bad merging?
  238. # [11:10] <@surkov> I'm about backed out bug
  239. # [11:19] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
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  241. # [11:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I didn't update windows correctly to deal with your nit about not using xpcom style for GetLanguage() in nsAccessNode
  242. # [11:28] <@surkov> ok
  243. # [11:30] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think fixing it'll be trivial, but probably won't happen till atleast tomorrow afternoon (actually today, but logical tomorrow)
  244. # [11:30] <@surkov> sure
  245. # [11:48] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@moz-A6FE435.build.sjc1.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
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  248. # [12:10] <muralisr92> surkov: hi, i have a small doubt. im so sorry if im disturbing..
  249. # [12:18] <@surkov> muralisr92: hey, what kind of?
  250. # [12:18] <muralisr92> i'm trying to fix https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=702560
  251. # [12:18] <@firebot> Bug 702560 nor, --, ---, murali.sr92, NEW, add a11y mochitest for HTML 5 contextmenu
  252. # [12:19] <@surkov> sounds good
  253. # [12:19] <muralisr92> so, i looked at the other test files... i'm able to understand everything except accTree
  254. # [12:19] <muralisr92> could you please explain what accTree is and what it does to me
  255. # [12:19] <@surkov> drop me a link please
  256. # [12:19] <muralisr92> sure, just a moment please
  257. # [12:20] <muralisr92> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/tests/mochitest/tree/test_iframe.html
  258. # [12:21] <muralisr92> in the source of that test, i cannot understand the purpose of accTree variable...
  259. # [12:22] * Quits: ivan (ivan@moz-531C3EC9.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout)
  260. # [12:26] <@surkov> you need to look at common.js testAccessibleTree function to understand how accTree is used
  261. # [12:26] <@surkov> so it's used to describe accessible tree
  262. # [12:27] <muralisr92> okay thanks a lot for the pointer!! :)
  263. # [12:27] <@surkov> accTree is an object having role member that is accessible role and children that is an array of objects like accTree
  264. # [12:28] <@surkov> you can use more compact syntax to define accessible tree, see for example, tree/test_invalidationlist.html
  265. # [12:29] <@surkov> so if all you need is to test role and hierarchy then prefer to use compact syntax
  266. # [12:29] <muralisr92> hmm okay thanks a lot! i think i got it! :)
  267. # [12:30] <@surkov> yw!
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  277. # [15:05] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  278. # [15:10] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  279. # [15:11] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I saw some of that tweet drama
  280. # [15:12] <@davidb> You know I got your back.
  281. # [15:12] <@davidb> But it seems it might have quelled.
  282. # [15:15] <@davidb> eeejay: congrats
  283. # [15:15] * Joins: I_stephen (stephen@moz-8ACA8635.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net)
  284. # [15:16] <I_stephen> Oh Marko. you're just the man I need to talk to. I'm in a spot of bother with firefox 10
  285. # [15:16] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ^
  286. # [15:17] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  287. # [15:17] <I_stephen> oops. Yea. MarcoZ
  288. # [15:18] <I_stephen> wakey wakey
  289. # [15:19] <@davidb> clown: you guys are hiring a prof eh?
  290. # [15:20] <clown> davidb: apparently. I just found out about yesterday evening
  291. # [15:20] <@davidb> i saw Jennison post it to the web aim list
  292. # [15:23] <clown> we got an email from jutta to "everyone" asking that we tweet, email, and suggest names. I saw it around 4pm.
  293. # [15:23] <clown> are you going to apply? :-)
  294. # [15:24] <@davidb> ha!
  295. # [15:24] <@davidb> clown: https://twitter.com/#!/davidbolter/status/165076387491880960
  296. # [15:24] <@davidb> I didn't notice any other tweets
  297. # [15:25] <clown> you less than two weeks if you want to.
  298. # [15:25] <@davidb> And no, I'm not going to apply.
  299. # [15:25] <clown> didn't think so.
  300. # [15:31] <clown> lunch, davidb?
  301. # [15:31] <clown> me just had to ask...
  302. # [15:31] <@davidb> hum
  303. # [15:31] <@davidb> can't
  304. # [15:32] <@davidb> i suggest tomorrow but i'm booked
  305. # [15:32] <clown> okay
  306. # [15:32] <clown> how about sat? :-)
  307. # [15:32] <@davidb> haha
  308. # [15:33] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  309. # [15:38] <@MarcoZ> I_stephen: Hi, what's up?
  310. # [15:38] <I_stephen> I'm having trouble with the address bar in firefox 10. it doesn't read with jaws
  311. # [15:39] <I_stephen> well at least, with the jaws cursor
  312. # [15:39] <I_stephen> but everything else reads ok
  313. # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Well yeah, I was frustrated this morning after reading Sicking's tweet, because this is not the first I've heard about the procedures there and such, and I'm thinking: What the hell is everyone doing? We have so many things we want or need to do, don't waste the chance here! But I mentioned this about personal vanities getting in the way of certain folks to you before....
  314. # [15:40] <@davidb> I think I missed his initial tweet
  315. # [15:40] <@davidb> Yeah we've shared concerns.
  316. # [15:40] <@MarcoZ> I_stephen: This is not new. The JAWS cursor cannot really handle the way we draw to the screen. But that has been the case for ages in Firefox.
  317. # [15:41] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Should still be in Sicking's timeline. His Twitter nick is sickingj.
  318. # [15:42] <I_stephen> if I turn off hardware accelleration, most of the stuff on the screen is able to be read with the jaws cursor
  319. # [15:42] <I_stephen> It's just the address bar I'm having trouble with
  320. # [15:43] * @davidb finds it - senses frustration
  321. # [15:43] <I_stephen> I had no trouble with firefox 9 after turning this feature off
  322. # [15:43] <@MarcoZ> I_stephen: Well, the address bar is a XUL widget like anything else we have in Firefox, nothing special here except when the list of suggestions drops down.
  323. # [15:44] <I_stephen> when I upgraded to firefox 10 yesterday, thats when the issue with the address bar started
  324. # [15:44] <I_stephen> I even uninstalled firefox and started from scratch
  325. # [15:44] <@MarcoZ> I_stephen: And I'm not aware of anything that might have changed between 9 and 10 that might cause JAWS to no longer see this widget. Unless there's something in the visual make-up that has changed. Davidb would know more about that than I.
  326. # [15:45] <I_stephen> so something in firefox 10 must have changed, because the jaws cursor can't read the contents of the location bar
  327. # [15:47] <@MarcoZ> I_stephen: The JAWS cursor grabs its info from the JAWS off-screen model. It is very likely that something in our graphics library has changed that influences the way we draw this to the screen, Even when hardware acceleration is turned off.
  328. # [15:47] <@davidb> I_stephen: We've asked FS and others to test Firefox throughout our development cycles. Somehow NVDA does a better job of not breaking. It would be great if you could send FS a note asking if this is a known issue. The more voices the better.
  329. # [15:48] <@MarcoZ> I_stephen: I would be more concerned if it was the PC cursor that broke, to be honest. Reviewing the screen with the JAWS cursor, esp when you have good keyboard support available etc., is something I always avoided to do even when I was still a JAWS user.
  330. # [15:48] <@davidb> MarcoZ: yes I think your intuition about gfx changes is likely right
  331. # [15:49] <@MarcoZ> I_stephen: And yes, FS always get very early notice of new development cycles. Esp since we had a big focus refactor in 10, we notified them beginning of October to test these builds so they could catch any possible regressions early on. That was 4 months ago.
  332. # [15:49] <@davidb> I_stephen: at the end of the day, we want to fix it though. Is there a bug filed with version info and STR? cc MarcoZ
  333. # [15:50] <I_stephen> Well actually, when I type in the address of where I want to go and I make a mistake, I lose track of where I am because when I press backspace to delete the error, all I hear is space space space. not the characters I've just typed
  334. # [15:51] <I_stephen> So I suppose the pc cursor is sort of broken
  335. # [15:51] * Joins: muralisr92 (chatzilla@moz-A1BA4B4C.dynip.nus.edu.sg)
  336. # [15:52] <I_stephen> I can press insert numpad 8, and the line of text I type in is read, but when I use the pc cursor or jaws cursor to review what I've typed, I just hear blank blank blank
  337. # [15:53] <@MarcoZ> Geez, they should use IAccessibleText for the location bar as well as any other text fields for God's sake! And like I said, they had these Firefox 10 builds since early October.
  338. # [15:54] * @MarcoZ needs to do some grocery shopping, be back in about 30.
  339. # [15:54] <I_stephen> well it worked in firefox 9, but something obviously broke in ff 10
  340. # [15:55] <I_stephen> it's so damn frustrating when they just rush a bunch of updates out which ends up breaking something
  341. # [15:55] <@davidb> I_stephen: something changed yeah. Even a 'fix' can cause degraded behaviour. It really depends what Jaws is doing.
  342. # [15:55] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Client exited)
  343. # [15:55] <I_stephen> Well I don't have enough money to burn on jaws updates
  344. # [15:55] <@davidb> There needs to be more pressure on FS to test.
  345. # [15:56] <@davidb> NVDA might be one way.
  346. # [15:56] <I_stephen> the rotten little sods charge like $300 for a major version upgrade, and they have this horrid internet activation system and even changing some hardware in your pc such as a new video card can invalidate your license
  347. # [15:57] <I_stephen> then it's back to the 40 minute limit and then you have to reboot to get speech back every 40 minutes!
  348. # [15:57] * @davidb nods sadly
  349. # [15:57] <@davidb> I hope this frustration makes it to their ears.
  350. # [15:59] <I_stephen> don't get your hopes up.
  351. # [15:59] <I_stephen> it's just so stupid!
  352. # [15:59] <I_stephen> if you need tech support, you have to ring up your local dealer, in my case, quantum technology
  353. # [16:00] <muralisr92> hi, im new here. im trying to add a mochitest for contextmenu.. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=702560
  354. # [16:00] <@firebot> Bug 702560 nor, --, ---, murali.sr92, NEW, add a11y mochitest for HTML 5 contextmenu
  355. # [16:00] <muralisr92> could someone please guide me?
  356. # [16:00] <I_stephen> Then if they don't know the answer to what problem you're having, they have to pass the message on to freedom scifi... er.. I mean scientific
  357. # [16:00] <@davidb> muralisr92: excellent!
  358. # [16:00] <I_stephen> it's like chinese whispers
  359. # [16:01] <I_stephen> you aren't able to contact freedom scifi directly, you have to go through a 3rd party.
  360. # [16:01] <@davidb> muralisr92: have you seen https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Contribute
  361. # [16:01] <@davidb> the Get started steps are important
  362. # [16:02] <@davidb> muralisr92: and there is a section on running automated tests.
  363. # [16:02] <muralisr92> thanks a lot! :) i got through all those steps and got my own build of firefox...
  364. # [16:03] <muralisr92> i was looking at the other tests to get an idea of what i'm supposed to do...
  365. # [16:03] <@davidb> I_stephen: they might follow https://twitter.com/#!/freedomscientif
  366. # [16:03] <@davidb> muralisr92: that's perfect.
  367. # [16:03] <@davidb> let's see...
  368. # [16:03] <muralisr92> i'm unable to understand a certain piece of code though.. could you please explain to me?
  369. # [16:04] <@davidb> muralisr92: which one?
  370. # [16:04] <muralisr92> in the function doTest, the accTree
  371. # [16:04] <@davidb> is there a file name for the code we're looking at?
  372. # [16:04] <muralisr92> yes just a moment please
  373. # [16:05] <@davidb> np
  374. # [16:05] <muralisr92> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/tests/mochitest/tree/test_media.html?force=1#22
  375. # [16:05] <@davidb> ok yep
  376. # [16:06] <muralisr92> could you please tell me more about the role and children?
  377. # [16:06] <@davidb> so we create an object with various properties, and we call it accTree
  378. # [16:06] <@davidb> ah
  379. # [16:06] <@davidb> ok
  380. # [16:06] <@davidb> muralisr92: we map various HTML elements and attributes to enumerated values which are later exposed to a11y API
  381. # [16:07] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  382. # [16:07] <@davidb> the various roles are found here: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/tests/mochitest/role.js
  383. # [16:07] <@davidb> the children array is what we expect to map in terms of the child elements.
  384. # [16:08] <@davidb> so in this case testAccessibleTree takes the id of the tree root, and the variable we created.
  385. # [16:09] <@davidb> muralisr92: I'm not sure I'm answered your intended question though?
  386. # [16:09] <muralisr92> im sorry, but could you please tell me what the "tree root" is
  387. # [16:09] <muralisr92> that is the 1st parameter of testAccessibleTree
  388. # [16:09] <@davidb> yep
  389. # [16:09] <@davidb> in the body of the html file we have "<audio id="audio"...
  390. # [16:10] <@davidb> the id is "audio"
  391. # [16:10] <@davidb> so that element will be examined to see if it and its children are mapped to what we expect
  392. # [16:10] <muralisr92> oh i got this part! :) so for context menu, the role is ROLE_MENUITEM?
  393. # [16:10] <@davidb> <audio> is funny because we gecko creates a shadow dom for various bits
  394. # [16:11] <@davidb> like the audio controls.
  395. # [16:11] <@davidb> e.g. http://www.w3schools.com/html5/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml5_audio
  396. # [16:11] <@davidb> if you use Inspect you can see there is a grayed out subtree of <audio>
  397. # [16:12] <@davidb> but there is even more that Inspect doesn't show you
  398. # [16:12] <@davidb> Sometimes we build accessible objects from frames, and one element can have multiple frames.
  399. # [16:12] <I_stephen> anyhow, I have to go now. I hope marco might be able to help keep future versions of firefox accessible
  400. # [16:12] <@davidb> Sorry this is a tricky case.
  401. # [16:12] <@davidb> I_stephen: we try!
  402. # [16:13] <I_stephen> freedom scifi like to gouge the blind consumer... they think we're made of money
  403. # [16:13] <@davidb> I_stephen: and if you want to help test dev or beta FF - please do!
  404. # [16:13] <@davidb> I don't want to comment on that, but it is frustrating.
  405. # [16:13] <I_stephen> ok
  406. # [16:14] <I_stephen> why don't you want to comment?
  407. # [16:14] <I_stephen> oh, wait, don't tell me you work for them?
  408. # [16:14] <@davidb> I want to focus on how to fix things.
  409. # [16:14] <@davidb> hahah no
  410. # [16:14] <@davidb> I donate to NVDA
  411. # [16:14] <I_stephen> oh thank god.. you had me scared stiff there for a moment!
  412. # [16:14] <@davidb> as does Mozilla
  413. # [16:14] <I_stephen> thats good
  414. # [16:15] <@davidb> We are pretty quick to fix issues brought to us by any vendor.
  415. # [16:15] <I_stephen> anyways, I'll be back on here tomorrow.
  416. # [16:15] <@davidb> ok
  417. # [16:15] * Parts: I_stephen (stephen@moz-8ACA8635.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net)
  418. # [16:15] <@davidb> muralisr92: keep asking until I make sense :)
  419. # [16:16] <muralisr92> :) im so sorry, but can you tell me how to find out what the role of context menu is?
  420. # [16:16] <@davidb> ah!
  421. # [16:16] <@davidb> muralisr92: you can guess actually, then see how the test fails :)
  422. # [16:16] <@davidb> but I'd try ROLE_MENU
  423. # [16:16] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  424. # [16:16] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@moz-A6FE435.build.sjc1.mozilla.com) (Input/output error)
  425. # [16:16] <@davidb> (I don't keep all these in my head)
  426. # [16:16] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  427. # [16:17] <muralisr92> haha okay! and is there a way to find out the children array?
  428. # [16:17] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  429. # [16:18] <@davidb> muralisr92: it is extra hard to use tools to examine context menus, because of focus...
  430. # [16:18] <@davidb> but they are probably ROLE_MENUITEM or similar
  431. # [16:18] <@davidb> it depends on the menu
  432. # [16:19] <@davidb> you'll want to delay examining the menu until it is popped up
  433. # [16:19] <muralisr92> im so so sorry, but you said " the children array is what we expect to map in terms of the child elements." im completely lost as to what child items are :(
  434. # [16:19] <muralisr92> *child elements
  435. # [16:20] <@davidb> ok there are two sides to this
  436. # [16:20] <@davidb> 1. the actual DOM (etc)
  437. # [16:20] <@davidb> 2. our internal representation
  438. # [16:20] <@davidb> actually and
  439. # [16:20] <@davidb> 3. the test representation in js
  440. # [16:21] <@davidb> for 1. you might have <div>a<div>b</div>c</div>
  441. # [16:21] <@davidb> 2. would be in C++ an accessible object tree
  442. # [16:21] <@davidb> 3. in js when we test we create a tree that we will compare to 2.
  443. # [16:22] <@davidb> So in my example if we have <div id="root">a<div>b</div>c</div>
  444. # [16:22] <@davidb> the children of 'root' are a, [div], c
  445. # [16:23] <@davidb> the roles would be role_text role_section and role_text i think
  446. # [16:24] <@davidb> muralisr92: try changing one of the working tests.
  447. # [16:24] <muralisr92> ohh ok ok ok
  448. # [16:24] <@davidb> to see how it fails
  449. # [16:24] <muralisr92> thank you soo much!
  450. # [16:24] <@davidb> anytime
  451. # [16:24] <muralisr92> :)
  452. # [16:24] <@davidb> good luck and i'll be around
  453. # [16:25] <muralisr92> thanks once again! it all appears in a much clearer perspective now! :)
  454. # [16:26] <@davidb> I know how you feel.
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  466. # [16:51] * @davidb kicks off a try build
  467. # [16:54] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@moz-A6FE435.build.sjc1.mozilla.com)
  468. # [16:57] * @MarcoZ is back and has read scrollback.
  469. # [16:58] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I really think i_stephen should try NVDA and not throw his energy into getting FS to fix things that don't work for him. Because what will happen is that the fix will make it into the next paid upgrade, but does not get backported.
  470. # [16:58] * @davidb nods
  471. # [16:59] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Try-server build for what?
  472. # [16:59] <@davidb> he never responded to my multiple mentions of nvda
  473. # [16:59] <@davidb> MarcoZ: canvas a11y
  474. # [16:59] <@davidb> i have enough to throw a build to rich
  475. # [16:59] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Nice!
  476. # [16:59] <@davidb> maybe he'll demo it at csun
  477. # [16:59] <@davidb> alongside you
  478. # [17:07] <muralisr92> davidb: after i create the testfile.html, should i put it alongside the other testfiles and modify makefile.in to include the new file in _TEST_FILES? then try making firefox?
  479. # [17:09] <@davidb> yep
  480. # [17:09] <muralisr92> okay thanks! :)
  481. # [17:09] <@davidb> muralisr92: oh you may need to ac_add_options --enable-tests to your .mozconfig
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  483. # [17:11] <muralisr92> thanks again!
  484. # [17:13] * @davidb cancels try builds
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  487. # [17:19] <@MarcoZ> Hi aaronlev, hi hub!
  488. # [17:19] <@davidb> hi hi *
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  508. # [19:04] <@eeejay> when does mc merge with inbound?
  509. # [19:04] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: whenever someone does it
  510. # [19:04] <@eeejay> i c
  511. # [19:05] <@tbsaunde> usually fairly frequently one happened earlier to day
  512. # [19:05] <@tbsaunde> probably again before tomorrow afternoon
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  515. # [19:08] <@eeejay> cool
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  517. # [19:16] <@hub> eeejay: they just make sure to pick the last green changes
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  521. # [19:34] <@davidb> eeejay: is bug 670928 on your radar?
  522. # [19:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670928 enh, --, ---, eitan, REOP, HTML5 element and WAI-ARIA landmark roles easily navigable in Firefox
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  531. # [19:51] <@eeejay> davidb, kinda? why do you ask? should we make it a qx goal?
  532. # [19:53] <@davidb> eeejay: I think what I really want is for you to describe an approach to a solution in the bug.
  533. # [19:53] <@davidb> if you have something in mind.
  534. # [19:53] <@eeejay> davidb, sure, i'll do that now
  535. # [19:53] <aaronlev> i gotta read up on gt
  536. # [19:53] <aaronlev> git
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  538. # [19:54] <@davidb> heh
  539. # [19:54] <richardschwerdtfeger> Hi David
  540. # [19:54] <aaronlev> he wants something
  541. # [19:54] <aaronlev> ./me hides
  542. # [20:16] <@davidb> hahah'
  543. # [20:16] <@davidb> richardschwerdtfeger: I kicked off a build for you to try. Isn't ready yet.
  544. # [20:16] <@davidb> (canvas)
  545. # [20:17] <richardschwerdtfeger> cool!
  546. # [20:17] <richardschwerdtfeger> is there any caret stuff in there too?
  547. # [20:18] <@davidb> not in this one
  548. # [20:20] <@davidb> i should do that
  549. # [20:20] <@davidb> next one.
  550. # [20:21] <aaronlev> i'm feelin' the love
  551. # [20:22] <@davidb> group hug!
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  553. # [20:23] <@hub> now if I could figure why I don't get these events ....
  554. # [20:23] <@hub> apparently I'm missing the Focus event and the Scroll start event
  555. # [20:23] <@davidb> hub: are you seeing them get queued internally?
  556. # [20:24] <@hub> not sure if the first one is a red herring or just why the second on happen
  557. # [20:24] <@hub> davidb: the event.js logging does not show them
  558. # [20:24] <@davidb> on all platforms?
  559. # [20:24] <@hub> yeah
  560. # [20:24] <@davidb> oh
  561. # [20:24] <@davidb> ok
  562. # [20:24] <@hub> including Mac
  563. # [20:24] <@hub> but Mac mochitest for a11y are not run it seems on the buildbots
  564. # [20:25] <@davidb> right
  565. # [20:25] <@davidb> because we weren't maintaining that code
  566. # [20:25] <@davidb> (past tense)
  567. # [20:25] <@hub> and I had to rebase my patch again
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  570. # [21:41] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so, I'm curious what does telemetry for accessibility instantiation look like across channels and between linux and windows?
  571. # [21:42] <@davidb> The dashboard is not ideal.
  572. # [21:43] <@tbsaunde> oic
  573. # [21:43] <@davidb> Let me look again, but the real answer still has to come from someone with database access unfortunately.
  574. # [21:44] <@davidb> I have no idea.
  575. # [21:44] <@tbsaunde> davidb: :/
  576. # [21:45] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so, how much useful data do we get now then?
  577. # [21:45] <@davidb> the useful data is there, we just don't have a good lens for it
  578. # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> davidb: true
  579. # [21:46] <@davidb> i have raised one issue with the dashboard they are looking into
  580. # [21:46] <@davidb> but the team is in belgium i think
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  582. # [22:09] <@davidb> back in a few (hours)
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  590. # Session Close: Fri Feb 03 00:00:00 2012

The end :)