/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-02-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 22 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  26. # [03:38] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 729384 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  27. # [03:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729384 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, need a special interface for visrtual cursor change events
  28. # [03:41] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, is your plate clean for reviewing?
  29. # [03:42] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 599444 on bug 729384.
  30. # [03:42] <@surkov> eeejay: his plate is quite full
  31. # [03:43] <@eeejay> surkov, cool. i gave it to you :)
  32. # [03:43] <@surkov> ok :)
  33. # [03:45] <@tbsaunde> yeah, my plate is pretty full of ml ="(
  34. # [03:59] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: so, doesn't that bug basically make pivot observers completely redundant?
  35. # [03:59] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, nah
  36. # [04:00] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, the accessible event is implemented via the observer iface
  37. # [04:00] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, and if someone crated a stand-alone pivot that was not vc, they would need to use observers
  38. # [04:01] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: true, but there is a lot of overlap :\
  39. # [04:01] <@eeejay> not really.
  40. # [04:02] <@eeejay> we could do away with the accessible event altogether, but then you would need to register an observer with any vc you might one day be interested
  41. # [04:02] <@eeejay> and listen for doc creation, etc
  42. # [04:02] <@eeejay> so that would create a bit of an antipattern
  43. # [04:03] <@tbsaunde> honestly I think I'd be fine with getting rid of the event and people always using observers
  44. # [04:03] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 599311 on bug 691267.
  45. # [04:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691267 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, NEW, HTML input button and HTML 4 button should share the same class
  46. # [04:03] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, pretty much anything you say about the pivot/vc interface has been part of one iteration of the implementation or another.
  47. # [04:04] <@eeejay> i tried everything, twice. what is now in mc is arbitrarily what everyone kind of agreed on
  48. # [04:05] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I'm not sure I understand what your trying to say
  49. # [04:05] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, that what you are suggesting has already been tried, and was rejected for one reason or another
  50. # [04:06] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, there are a million ways we could have dome this, what we have is as good as any
  51. # [04:07] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I'd disagree with the assertion there aren't better designs, but what you add isn't ugly enough I'll say no
  52. # [04:09] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, there could be better designs for sure, but this is what we compromised on, and it is good enough.
  53. # [04:11] <@eeejay> ok, headed home. night!
  54. # [04:11] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  55. # [04:14] <@hub> ok, this is official. I hate Apple and their undocumented API
  56. # [04:15] <@hub> WebKit use undocumented API with some stubs to do stuff for a11y
  57. # [04:16] <@hub> ok, going home this time
  58. # [04:17] <@tbsaunde> hehe
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  72. # [05:08] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 599444 on bug 729384.
  73. # [05:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729384 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need a special interface for virtual cursor change events
  74. # [05:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: nsRefPtr<nsIFoo> is weird, but probably fine re your review
  75. # [05:21] <@surkov> I meant nsIAccessible usage because we're going to keep it for xpcom only
  76. # [05:28] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, and I agree with that part
  77. # [05:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: but I mean while we do it it would be less weird if it were a nsCOMPtr
  78. # [05:29] <@tbsaunde> right?
  79. # [05:40] <@surkov> the same actually, the differrence nsCOMPtr does QueryInterface
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  81. # [05:45] <@tbsaunde> surkov: does it always do the qi?
  82. # [05:45] <@surkov> I don't remember
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  84. # [05:46] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I sort of expected it was optimized out in these cases, but maybe not
  85. # [05:46] <@surkov> it should be
  86. # [05:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, maybe not, consider the case of a nsFoo inheriting nsIFoo but you can't qi to nsIFoo
  87. # [05:50] <@surkov> why?
  88. # [05:50] <@surkov> if nsFoo implements QueryInterface then nothing should prevent to do that
  89. # [05:53] <@tbsaunde> surkov: suppose the object intentionally prevents you from qiing it to that interface for some reason
  90. # [05:53] <@tbsaunde> its a rather strange thing to do, but ...
  91. # [05:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but it's inherited from this interface?
  92. # [05:54] <@surkov> then I guess nsCOMPtr will have null value
  93. # [05:54] <@surkov> but again need to look at implementation
  94. # [05:56] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes, and I would have to look to
  95. # [05:56] <@surkov> ok
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  104. # [08:30] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 599495 on bug 650241.
  105. # [08:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650241 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Location returned by accessibles sometimes incorrect when page zoomed
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  108. # [09:08] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(marco.zehe@googlema il.com) for attachment 599495 on bug 650241.
  109. # [09:08] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 599506 on bug 650241.
  110. # [09:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650241 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Location returned by accessibles sometimes incorrect when page zoomed
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  118. # [10:45] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
  119. # [10:45] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Ping?
  120. # [10:45] <@surkov> MarcoZ: pong
  121. # [10:46] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Can you take a quick look at the twitter.com web site? When you're logged in, in the top navigation, there is a popup that's not accessible, but according to TheUnfocused, is made up only of divs etc., with position fixed and z-index 6000.
  122. # [10:46] <@MarcoZ> It has options like "Logout", "Direct messages" etc. in there.
  123. # [10:47] <@MarcoZ> surkov: And I wonder why we don't render it.
  124. # [10:47] <@surkov> MarcoZ: so you can't open it?
  125. # [10:47] <@askalski> morning everyone!
  126. # [10:47] <@surkov> askalski: hello
  127. # [10:49] <@surkov> MarcoZ: say me steps to reproduce please
  128. # [10:49] <@MarcoZ> surkov, no I can't.
  129. # [10:49] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I don't even see that there's a popupable element there.
  130. # [10:49] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Just go to twitter.com and log in.
  131. # [10:52] <@MarcoZ> surkov: In nVDA's virtual bufer, I see "Home", "Connect", and "Discover", but no fourth item. I see a cryptic link starting with f21, but that's not the "Account" or whatever it's called link.
  132. # [10:52] <@MarcoZ> Hi askalski!
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  134. # [10:53] <@surkov> MarcoZ: ok, I'll check it
  135. # [10:53] <@surkov> there is supposed a link after search entry
  136. # [10:54] <@surkov> that should open that popup
  137. # [10:54] <@surkov> link == html:a
  138. # [10:54] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Thanks! Sorry I can't be more specific, but without actually seeing the screen, it's difficult. I see a list of 3 items that contains the above links, and then this other confusing stuff, but nothing that would allow me to open the accounts popup where I can sign out, get to my direct messages etc. I only know from sighted people that it's there somewhere.
  139. # [10:56] <@surkov> I'll take a look
  140. # [10:58] <@surkov> I wonder how did you know about this popup
  141. # [10:58] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Oh yeahDon't see it. I see the search field, and I see a link witha graphic "Marco Zehe", but when I click that, I get a full page with my profile, recent images, but no option for my DMs, logout etc.
  142. # [10:58] <@MarcoZ> surkov: From my girlfriend.
  143. # [10:59] <@surkov> ok
  144. # [10:59] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I wanted to log out of Twitter and couldn't find the option. She had to use the mouse to open that popupp and click "Sign out".
  145. # [10:59] <@surkov> I see
  146. # [11:01] <@MarcoZ> Oh wait, I think I found it. It's called "u21CA" in NVDA.
  147. # [11:01] <@MarcoZ> surk
  148. # [11:01] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I was able to log out with screen reader
  149. # [11:01] <@surkov> right :)
  150. # [11:01] <@MarcoZ> surkov: ^
  151. # [11:01] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Where did that text come from? Do you know?
  152. # [11:01] <@surkov> yeah, I just discovered the same :)
  153. # [11:02] <@surkov> let me look
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  157. # [11:03] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it contains that text
  158. # [11:03] <@surkov> beautiful accessibility :)
  159. # [11:04] <@surkov> wanna write accessible site ask twitter :)
  160. # [11:04] <@MarcoZ> surkov: That's really crazy! :)
  161. # [11:04] <@MarcoZ> Do you visually see that text on the screen, too?
  162. # [11:05] <@surkov> no
  163. # [11:05] <@surkov> I see nice image and arrow down that says me there's a popup
  164. # [11:06] <@MarcoZ> surkov: WTF? Wonder how they managed to mess up *that* markup. O_O
  165. # [11:06] <@surkov> I bet it's automatically generated
  166. # [11:06] <@surkov> because it's crazy
  167. # [11:07] <@surkov> human can't write this
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  169. # [11:10] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Agreed.
  170. # [11:13] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Thanks for looking!
  171. # [11:14] <@surkov> yw
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  176. # [11:35] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 599506 on bug 650241.
  177. # [11:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650241 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Location returned by accessibles sometimes incorrect when page zoomed
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  180. # [12:09] <@surkov> MarcoZ: could you land bug 677154 to aurora?
  181. # [12:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677154 maj, P1, mozilla13, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Detached document accessibility tree
  182. # [12:13] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Yes!
  183. # [12:22] <@surkov> thanks!
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  185. # [12:40] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Pushed.
  186. # [12:41] <@surkov> thank you
  187. # [12:44] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox-esr to affected on bug 677154.
  188. # [12:44] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox11 to affected on bug 677154.
  189. # [12:45] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox10 to affected on bug 677154.
  190. # [12:45] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox12 to fixed on bug 677154.
  191. # [12:45] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 677154.
  192. # [12:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=677154 maj, P1, mozilla13, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Detached document accessibility tree
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  194. # [13:24] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 729474 filed by sgautherie.bz@free.fr.
  195. # [13:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729474 maj, P2, mozilla13, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "name/test_browserui.xul | Window title contains the name of active tab document"
  196. # [13:37] <@firebot> sgautherie.bz@free.fr requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 599565 on bug 729474.
  197. # [13:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729474 maj, P2, mozilla13, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "name/test_browserui.xul | Window title contains the name of active tab document"
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  200. # [13:44] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 599565 on bug 729474.
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  202. # [13:53] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 726097 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  203. # [13:53] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 726097 to FIXED.
  204. # [13:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=726097 blo, --, mozilla13, hub, RESO FIXED, Hit testing broken
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  219. # [14:33] * @MarcoZ updates projects/accessibility repo with latest m-c code.
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  225. # [15:01] <@davidb> surkov: I have a call at 1:30 EST with jet and ehsan about igalia/orca, html editing api, and future text selection implementation.
  226. # [15:01] <@davidb> I'd add you to the invite list but you'll be asleep right?
  227. # [15:03] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I was just gonna ask about the agenda post and zing there it is :)
  228. # [15:04] <@surkov> davidb: 13:30 pm of MV time?
  229. # [15:04] <@surkov> 1:30pm :)
  230. # [15:04] <@davidb> 10:30 MV time
  231. # [15:11] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  232. # [15:18] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Hi! Yeah I was a bit late with it this week, sorry!
  233. # [15:18] <@davidb> np
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  242. # [15:59] * @davidb catches up on ia2 discussion
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  255. # [16:34] <@davidb> nearly meeting time!
  256. # [16:36] * @davidb hangs in vidyo
  257. # [16:36] <@hub> logging in
  258. # [16:36] <@hub> starting chrome
  259. # [16:36] <@davidb> surkov: wanna try?
  260. # [16:37] <@surkov> ok
  261. # [16:37] * Quits: thiessenp (thiessenp@moz-BC938049.ebuddy.com) (Quit: thiessenp)
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  263. # [16:38] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you dialling in?
  264. # [16:41] * Joins: webben (benjamin@moz-BA505DDD.static.cloud-ips.com)
  265. # [16:41] <@davidb> surkov: can you mute when you aren't talking?
  266. # [16:41] <@davidb> i hear noise
  267. # [16:42] <@surkov> davidb: does it work?
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  270. # [16:43] <@davidb> sorta?
  271. # [16:43] <@davidb> i keep forgetting i'm muted
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  274. # [16:52] <@davidb> surkov: you are breaking up a bit
  275. # [16:59] <@davidb> hub: you are muted
  276. # [16:59] <@davidb> i think
  277. # [17:00] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I can definitely get a demo for canvas together.
  278. # [17:00] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
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  281. # [17:06] <@hub> davidb: yeah I noticed :-)
  282. # [17:06] <@davidb> :)
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  288. # [17:42] <@davidb> ehsan: are you still good for the 1:30 call?
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  292. # [17:53] <ehsan> davidb: if you want, we can still do that call, I don't wanna keep cancelling on you
  293. # [17:54] <@davidb> ehsan: too late
  294. # [17:54] <ehsan> oh :(
  295. # [17:55] <@davidb> ehsan: i think it is prudent to postpone
  296. # [17:55] <@davidb> ehsan: email thread started
  297. # [17:55] <ehsan> good
  298. # [17:55] <ehsan> thanks
  299. # [17:56] <@davidb> np
  300. # [17:58] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  301. # [18:00] <@MarcoZ> hub: Bug 726097 verified on my end, just waiting for Jamie's confirmation.
  302. # [18:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=726097 blo, --, mozilla13, hub, RESO FIXED, Hit testing broken
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  307. # [18:13] <@hub> MarcoZ: awesome
  308. # [18:23] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
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  317. # [19:01] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 599667 on bug 727942.
  318. # [19:01] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 727942 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  319. # [19:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727942 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Windows app can't read Firefox setting for "zoom level"
  320. # [19:07] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  321. # [19:23] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 599667 on bug 727942.
  322. # [19:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727942 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Windows app can't read Firefox setting for "zoom level"
  323. # [19:25] <@MarcoZ> OK, am calling it a day. See you tomorrow!
  324. # [19:25] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-6E479734.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: See you tomorrow!)
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  328. # [19:39] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 650241 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  329. # [19:39] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 650241 from --- to mozilla13.
  330. # [19:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650241 nor, --, mozilla13, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Location returned by accessibles sometimes incorrect when page zoomed
  331. # [19:41] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 650241 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  332. # [19:41] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 650241 to FIXED.
  333. # [19:43] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 650241 from RESOLVED to REOPENED.
  334. # [19:43] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk cleared the Resolution 'FIXED' from bug 650241.
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  340. # [20:15] <@firebot> jh@junetz.de set status-firefox11 to fixed on bug 717753.
  341. # [20:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=717753 maj, --, mozilla12, sgautherie.bz, RESO FIXED, [SeaMonkey] mochitest-a11y: test_focus_browserui.xul needs to support non-Firefox applications too
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  347. # [21:06] <@eeejay> anyone kind around?
  348. # [21:07] <@eeejay> bug 729237 needs checking
  349. # [21:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729237 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Re-bridge emitGeckoAccessibilityEvent
  350. # [21:08] <@davidb> eeejay: oh checkin
  351. # [21:08] <@davidb> i can't ATM
  352. # [21:08] <@eeejay> yeah, that thing
  353. # [21:08] <@davidb> ed morley will probably do it :)
  354. # [21:08] <silph> not sure if this is the right place, but I'm not sure if anyone saw what I posted on #qa
  355. # [21:08] <@davidb> oh this is for fennec branch?>
  356. # [21:08] <@davidb> silph: i did not
  357. # [21:09] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  358. # [21:09] <@davidb> eeejay: this could land on central right?
  359. # [21:09] <@davidb> silph: what's up?
  360. # [21:09] <silph> I posted about how the ask toolbar set the default provider on the about:home page as ask.com and it didn't change when I set another provider
  361. # [21:09] <silph> it's fixed now, but I had to go to about:config
  362. # [21:09] <@eeejay> davidb, mozilla-central. yes.
  363. # [21:10] <@eeejay> bbiab
  364. # [21:10] <silph> there should be an easier way to undo it
  365. # [21:10] * @davidb shakes his fist at ask toolbar
  366. # [21:10] <@davidb> silph: you might be better off not using ask
  367. # [21:11] <silph> I installed the toolbar accidentally, but was surprised it still used ask even after uninstalling
  368. # [21:11] <silph> and there was no other way to undo it without going to about:config
  369. # [21:11] <@davidb> they have an updater.exe i think that constantly monitors
  370. # [21:12] <@davidb> you might try malware removal sites
  371. # [21:12] <@davidb> silph: see bug 719561
  372. # [21:12] <@davidb> might be interesting to you
  373. # [21:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719561 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Updater.exe from Ask Toolbar causes non-English Firefox to hang when viewing Flash videos in YouTube
  374. # [21:13] <silph> I just checked for the updater and it was left running on each start ! you were right
  375. # [21:14] <silph> but was that the thing setting it back to ask.com, or was it firefox that didn't set the default search provider on the main page?
  376. # [21:14] <silph> because the search bar I could change fine, but it would still use ask on the main page regardless
  377. # [21:14] <@davidb> I don't know
  378. # [21:15] <@davidb> silph: it might be best to file a bug and describe everything there.
  379. # [21:15] <silph> I think firefox doesn't let you change the provider for the main page, it should
  380. # [21:16] <silph> should this be reported as a bug or as a suggestion?
  381. # [21:16] <silph> it seems fine after setting it manually on about:config
  382. # [21:16] <@davidb> silph: is the main page the same thing as the home page?
  383. # [21:16] <silph> by main page I mean about:home
  384. # [21:16] <@davidb> ok yeah that's probably expected
  385. # [21:17] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: yeah, then setting chein needed on the bug should work, I don't have time atm either :/
  386. # [21:18] <silph> where do I leave the suggestion so we can set the default search provider for the search bar on the about:home page?
  387. # [21:21] <silph> davidb: and I had another quick question, any way I can access the grid page I get when opening a new tab without opening a new tab?
  388. # [21:23] <@tbsaunde> isn't tht about:newtab?
  389. # [21:24] <silph> yes, thanks!
  390. # [21:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: it occurs to me we could probably optimize Combatability::Compatability() by changing the if(jaws) { blah } if (we) { bar} to if (jaws) { blah } else if (we) { bar }
  391. # [21:25] <silph> I'll be going, thanks for the help
  392. # [21:26] * Quits: silph (Mibbit@moz-16B00AFE.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  393. # [21:28] <@tbsaunde> davidb: but it might make more sense to do that in a seperate bug from your telemetry stuff
  394. # [21:31] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yes but i want to catch multi reader usage just in case
  395. # [21:31] <@davidb> hmm
  396. # [21:31] <@davidb> actually
  397. # [21:31] <@davidb> that could be another value, when multiple are detected.
  398. # [21:32] * @davidb thinks aloud
  399. # [21:32] <@davidb> let's keep is simple i think
  400. # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> ok
  401. # [21:32] <@davidb> the danger with the else if is that we bias toward the first one we check
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  403. # [21:36] <@tbsaunde> true
  404. # [21:36] <@tbsaunde> we don't really support changing screen reader at run time so I'm not sure it really matters, but I gues it doesn't really hurt
  405. # [21:37] <@davidb> ok
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  411. # [21:49] <@hub> re the ask toolbar, there was something mverdi posted about
  412. # [21:50] <@hub> but yeah that was unrelated to us it seems
  413. # [21:57] <@davidb> there seems to be multiple ways ask toolbar makes the world wondrous
  414. # [21:57] <@davidb> maybe we need a killthem channel
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  425. # [23:57] <imcoocoo> I was wondering how i can customize the FireFox toolbar if i'm totally blind; I.E., rearrange the buttons/spaces in the order i want, most importantly (WITHOUT sighted assistance?)
  426. # [23:58] <imcoocoo> Sure seems like this is a do-it-yourself world, and being totally blind in the FireFox world kinda puts me on an island...
  427. # Session Close: Thu Feb 23 00:00:00 2012

The end :)