/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-02-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Feb 23 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:00] <imcoocoo> Note to self: using NVDA; which btw, does not understand the Customize Toolbar dialog proper; I.E., i can't even tab to the toolbar proper to rearrange items the way i want...
  4. # [00:00] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-7B22FBCF.eng.wind.ca)
  5. # [00:00] <imcoocoo> Even JAWS 10 doesn't understand the dialog either.
  6. # [00:02] <imcoocoo> Everyone talks like dragging and dropping is so great, uh him, you can't necessarily do that if you're totally blind to begin with... Not to mention, drag an item to the wrong place, and you'll usually regret it immediately.
  7. # [00:03] <imcoocoo> Sure feels like a rant, lol... And i don't wanna add hundreds of extenstions just to do 1 or 2 very biggy native tasks.
  8. # [00:04] <imcoocoo> As it goes, WebVisum and Noise are my two absolute drop-dead must-have extensions.
  9. # [00:05] <@tbsaunde> imcoocoo: for rearranging stuff you might have more luck asking google or fx-team
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  11. # [00:06] <@tbsaunde> I don't know much about how the ui works and wouldn't be suprised if that's the same most of the others around
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  14. # [01:09] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 691267 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  15. # [01:09] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 691267 to FIXED.
  16. # [01:09] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 691267 from --- to mozilla13.
  17. # [01:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691267 nor, --, mozilla13, andrew.quartey, RESO FIXED, HTML input button and HTML 4 button should share the same class
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  19. # [01:10] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 650241 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  20. # [01:10] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 650241 to FIXED.
  21. # [01:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650241 nor, --, mozilla13, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Location returned by accessibles sometimes incorrect when page zoomed
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  25. # [01:33] <@firebot> neil@httl.net granted feedback for attachment 599342 on bug 291082.
  26. # [01:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291082 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, preventDefault doesn't block keyboard navigation in select-one drop-down lists
  27. # [01:44] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 599812 on bug 729384.
  28. # [01:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729384 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need a special interface for virtual cursor change events
  29. # [01:45] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 599813 on bug 729384.
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  31. # [01:48] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from askalski@mozilla.co m for attachment 599220 on bug 729154.
  32. # [01:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729154 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Telemetry for a11y instantiation by unknown cause.
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  59. # [05:47] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org changed the Status on bug 726097 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  60. # [05:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=726097 blo, --, mozilla13, hub, VERI FIXED, Hit testing broken
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  62. # [05:52] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 599812 on bug 729384.
  63. # [05:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729384 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need a special interface for virtual cursor change events
  64. # [06:00] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 599813 on bug 729384.
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  66. # [06:23] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 729831 filed by jamie@nvaccess.org.
  67. # [06:23] <@firebot> Bug 729831 was not found.
  68. # [06:24] <Jamie> and that one is going to drive me insane for a while :)
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  70. # [06:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: does that crash look like the content for the accessible doesn't have a frame?
  71. # [06:35] <@surkov> it is, but not sure why
  72. # [06:35] <@tbsaunde> 8yeh, me too
  73. # [06:36] <@surkov> gotta go, if you get a time then please take a look
  74. # [06:37] <@tbsaunde> I'm not really sure to look at
  75. # [06:37] <@tbsaunde> see you
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  86. # [09:46] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 729861 filed by scoobidiver@netcourrier.com.
  87. # [09:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729861 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Crash in nsDocAccessible::GetAccessible
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  92. # [10:30] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 599813 on bug 729384.
  93. # [10:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729384 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need a special interface for virtual cursor change events
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  97. # [12:30] <@askalski> hi everyone
  98. # [12:32] <@MarcoZ> Hi askalski!
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  108. # [14:37] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 599959 on bug 473576.
  109. # [14:37] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested feedback from karlt@mozbugz.kar lt.net for attachment 599959 on bug 473576.
  110. # [14:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473576 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, font-family text attribute should expose actual font used
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  116. # [15:24] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 725259 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  117. # [15:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725259 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, ARIA role combobox shouldn't allow aria-valueXXX attributes
  118. # [15:30] <@askalski> tbsaunde, hi, I wanted to take this review
  119. # [15:31] <@askalski> what should I look for? just mochitest it, or try to reproduce?
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  125. # [15:55] <@tbsaunde> askalski: this ==? the one I asked you to?
  126. # [15:55] <@askalski> yes
  127. # [15:55] <@askalski> tbsaunde, yes
  128. # [15:55] <@tbsaunde> askalski: for that one just read the patch and make sure its it seems correct
  129. # [15:55] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok. no mochitests?
  130. # [15:55] <@tbsaunde> running mochitests yourself is silly imho since we have test machines to do that on every checkin
  131. # [15:56] <@askalski> tbsaunde, right
  132. # [15:56] <@tbsaunde> askalski: no real way to mochitest it
  133. # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> that I'm aware of, ofcourse if you have reasonable idea feel free to ask
  134. # [15:57] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok. I need to send my commiters agreement ... forgetting about it all the time
  135. # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> heh
  136. # [16:00] <@firebot> askalski@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 599220 on bug 729154.
  137. # [16:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729154 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Telemetry for a11y instantiation by unknown cause.
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  142. # [16:10] <@davidb> hi all!
  143. # [16:13] <Mark_Capella> davidb: I'll say hi!
  144. # [16:13] <@davidb> Mark_Capella: heheh how's the hacking?
  145. # [16:14] <Mark_Capella> davidb: good! Learning found another to get confused over
  146. # [16:14] <@davidb> that's a great opportunity then :)
  147. # [16:22] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
  148. # [16:23] <@askalski> oh, hi Davidb
  149. # [16:29] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Is there any test page that uses the current Orion dev code so one can try out their accessibility enhancements?
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  151. # [16:36] <@davidb> sorry - doing some system setup here.
  152. # [16:36] <@davidb> MarcoZ: not that i'm aware of
  153. # [16:37] <@davidb> well that's not true - i have googled online orion demo before
  154. # [16:38] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK! I don't suppose Nightly uses the latest Orion code...
  155. # [16:38] * @MarcoZ will let you continue the system setup stuff now, though. ;-)
  156. # [16:45] <@davidb> yeah i'm not sure how often they merge
  157. # [16:45] * @davidb fights with external monitor
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  159. # [17:00] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 600023 on bug 725259.
  160. # [17:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725259 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, ARIA role combobox shouldn't allow aria-valueXXX attributes
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  164. # [17:14] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 599220 on bug 729154.
  165. # [17:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729154 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Telemetry for a11y instantiation by unknown cause.
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  169. # [17:48] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you looking for a bug?
  170. # [17:48] <@davidb> (note bug 729831)
  171. # [17:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729831 cri, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Crash @ mozilla::a11y::StyleInfo::Margin
  172. # [17:52] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  173. # [18:00] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I gave up on suffix arrays/suffix trees for now
  174. # [18:00] <@askalski> tbsaunde, and I want to send the immediate result (which still should be faster then original) solution
  175. # [18:00] <@askalski> tbsaunde, so I want to create a class that does the trick
  176. # [18:01] <@askalski> tbsaunde, where should I put it?
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  180. # [18:13] <@tbsaunde> askalski: why not just replace what's there now?
  181. # [18:13] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I have like 5 supporting methods to make code readable and debuggable
  182. # [18:13] <@askalski> tbsaunde, and they all operate on same arrays
  183. # [18:14] <@tbsaunde> askalski: so?
  184. # [18:14] <@askalski> tbsaunde, so putting it all into a single method is not really an option
  185. # [18:14] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I need some kind of wrapper, and class is perfect
  186. # [18:15] <@tbsaunde> davidb|afk: I'll look at those crashs when I have a minute, but iirc that one is on windows with steps to repro so probably better for you or Alex to work on it
  187. # [18:15] <@davidb|afk> ugh yeah
  188. # [18:15] <@tbsaunde> askalski: so add stuff to the text updator?
  189. # [18:17] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
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  191. # [18:21] <@askalski> tbsaunde, is it really so bad to add a new class?
  192. # [18:22] <@tbsaunde> askalski: no, but what is the point?
  193. # [18:22] * @tbsaunde wonders why davidb wants a second review on his telemetry patch
  194. # [18:24] <@askalski> tbsaunde, well, in my present implementation, all function names mimic the paper I was basing on, which makes it readable (if you know the paper, otherwise it's impossible to understand algorithm anyway)
  195. # [18:24] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I can either mix it with TextUpdater, and break the style
  196. # [18:24] <@davidb> tbsaunde: we need a peer or owner on each patch
  197. # [18:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: really? I thought it was legit if peers asked other people
  198. # [18:26] <@davidb> tbsaunde: that's fuzzy to me, but possibly true
  199. # [18:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well, surkov certainly asks other people :)
  200. # [18:27] <@davidb> does he r+ first?
  201. # [18:27] <@tbsaunde> I think it depends, but certainly not on patches he write
  202. # [18:27] <@davidb> heh
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  204. # [18:29] <@davidb> I'd be okay with transplanted trust.
  205. # [18:29] <@davidb> The module owners have final say on that.
  206. # [18:30] <@tbsaunde> yeah
  207. # [18:30] <@davidb> I didn't want to interrupt you and askalski here.
  208. # [18:30] <@askalski> tbsaunde, so what do you think, can I keep it as a separate class? I can nest it in TextUpdater
  209. # [18:31] <@askalski> but I guess keeping it in separate file may have some point
  210. # [18:31] <@tbsaunde> askalski: do what you think is reasonable :)
  211. # [18:31] <@askalski> ok, you'll see the patch proposition, and we'll talk again then
  212. # [18:35] <@tbsaunde> tbh if I was designing this I probably wouldn't hve made textupdator a class in the first place, but shrug
  213. # [18:41] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I wonder one thing
  214. # [18:41] <@askalski> tbsaunde, there is "skip prefix" argument
  215. # [18:41] <@askalski> usually, when I hack something for myself
  216. # [18:41] <@hub> just submitted a patch for a crasher. I don't know if that actually fixes it https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729861
  217. # [18:41] <@firebot> Bug 729861 cri, --, ---, hub, NEW, Crash in nsDocAccessible::GetAccessible
  218. # [18:42] <@askalski> I just do char * realstring = originalString + skipPrefix;
  219. # [18:42] <@askalski> so just moving the pointer. but here strings are classes
  220. # [18:42] <@askalski> are these randomly accessed (like std:string and std:vector in civilised implementations)?
  221. # [18:43] <@davidb> hub: do you have a windows vm?
  222. # [18:43] <@tbsaunde> askalski: I'm not sure I understand what your asking
  223. # [18:43] <@tbsaunde> they're all defined in xpcom/string/ but you have to dig through a couple layers of macros
  224. # [18:44] <@askalski> can I just hack some advanced pointers instead of just adding everywhere + prefix and -prefix
  225. # [18:44] <@askalski> ?
  226. # [18:44] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 600054 on bug 729861.
  227. # [18:44] <@hub> davidb: I have one, but no dev tools
  228. # [18:44] <@davidb> hub: can you build on it?
  229. # [18:44] <@tbsaunde> I believe you should be able to do PRUniChar* start = string.BeginReading() + aSkipStart;
  230. # [18:45] <@hub> davidb: no devtools
  231. # [18:45] * @davidb needs to decide whether to stay on current task or not
  232. # [18:45] <@davidb> ok
  233. # [18:45] <@davidb> hub: they are free ya know :)
  234. # [18:45] <@davidb> (as in beer)
  235. # [18:45] <@hub> davidb: at that point I'm willing to actually check in and see
  236. # [18:45] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  237. # [18:45] <@davidb> hub: how about a try build?
  238. # [18:45] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, but try is so much less painful ;)
  239. # [18:46] <@davidb> ok
  240. # [18:46] <@hub> I can do a try build, that's for sure
  241. # [18:46] <@davidb> i guess that's what hub meant
  242. # [18:46] <@davidb> ok
  243. # [18:46] <@davidb> go for it
  244. # [18:46] * @tbsaunde may or may not have debugged build errors into build with try
  245. # [18:46] <@hub> tbsaunde: I have done that too.
  246. # [18:46] <@davidb> then Jamie can verify at will
  247. # [18:47] <@davidb> I don't know what you guys mean
  248. # [18:47] <@davidb> ohhh
  249. # [18:47] <@davidb> got it :)
  250. # [18:47] <@tbsaunde> davidb: instead of booting my windows vm you keep pushing things to try
  251. # [18:47] <@davidb> yep
  252. # [18:49] <@hub> the thing is I don't know how to reproduce the crash
  253. # [18:49] <@hub> but it seems to be a top crasher
  254. # [18:49] <@hub> maybe it is time I get dressed to go to the office
  255. # [18:50] <khuey> psh
  256. # [18:50] <khuey> getting dressed is over rated
  257. # [18:50] <@askalski> tbsaunde, where I can find guidelines about naming conventions?
  258. # [18:51] <@tbsaunde> askalski: I'm not sure there's a great answer to that, we mostly follow the gecko style guide, but that isn't a great example of documentation ...
  259. # [18:51] <@tbsaunde> askalski: what do you want to know?
  260. # [18:52] <@hub> khuey: we have laws here
  261. # [18:53] <@askalski> tbsaunde, is there a certain suffix I should put on front of for example integer names?
  262. # [18:53] <@askalski> is for example stringLenght ok, or should I name it aStringLength or something
  263. # [18:55] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-BD26ECCD.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  264. # [18:57] <@tbsaunde> askalski: only arguments start with a
  265. # [18:57] <@askalski> ok
  266. # [18:57] <@tbsaunde> and no we aren't mad so we don't use ral hungarian notation :p
  267. # [18:58] <@tbsaunde> hub: so, I don't immediately understand why tht code was the way it was, so I think I'm calling reviewing it surkov's problem
  268. # [19:11] <@hub> tbsaunde: ok
  269. # [19:12] <@hub> tbsaunde: contentDoc isn't the same as mDoc because we might be coming from outside, like the outer frame or something
  270. # [19:12] <@hub> tbsaunde: that's was part of the breakage in hittesting
  271. # [19:13] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 600054 on bug 729861.
  272. # [19:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729861 cri, --, ---, hub, NEW, Crash in nsDocAccessible::GetAccessible
  273. # [19:13] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  274. # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> hub: can you explain "coming from outside"?
  275. # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> I didn't pay much attention to what the hit testing problem was exactly.
  276. # [19:19] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  277. # [19:26] <@hub> tbsaunde: like coming from the chrome or the outer document
  278. # [19:29] <@hub> ok, going to the office. c-ya in 30
  279. # [19:30] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  280. # [19:31] * Quits: @hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP) (Ping timeout)
  281. # [19:34] <@askalski> tbsaunde, do we have a max value define for PRUint32?
  282. # [19:34] <@askalski> tbsaunde, found it
  283. # [19:37] <@firebot> jh@junetz.de changed the Target Milestone on bug 718237 from --- to mozilla13.
  284. # [19:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718237 maj, --, mozilla13, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "accessible/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | Test timed out." (which also causes lot
  285. # [19:40] <@askalski> ok, I am finishing for today
  286. # [19:40] <@askalski> bye everyone
  287. # [19:41] <@davidb> good night!
  288. # [19:42] <@askalski> davidb, thanks
  289. # [19:42] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-4C8A107E.pool85-48-91.dynamic.orange.es) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  290. # [19:51] <drexler> just a general question. accessibility is interesting but what exactly drives the development here. With dom/layout i know what specs they follow but here??
  291. # [20:00] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  292. # [20:00] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  293. # [20:28] <@davidb> drexler: there are a few things...
  294. # [20:29] <@davidb> drexler: there are accessibility specifications, and normally we pioneer these.
  295. # [20:29] <@davidb> drexler: and there is that aspect where changes to dom/layout/browser/toolkit can require changes to our accessibility module
  296. # [20:30] <@davidb> then there is always performance work etc
  297. # [20:30] <@davidb> drexler: one big focus area needs to be b2g which is a game changer for accessibility approach to solving.
  298. # [20:31] <@hub> I like that :-)
  299. # [20:32] <@hub> a product is accessible if you can buy and use it without any further help
  300. # [20:32] <@hub> which is not the case in, say, the Asus Transformer
  301. # [20:33] <@davidb> drexler: example specs include http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/ http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/accessibility/iaccessible2 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms971310.aspx atk/at-spi etc
  302. # [20:33] <@davidb> hub: indeed
  303. # [20:33] <@davidb> disability is a mismatch between what the user requires and what the technology provides
  304. # [20:34] <@davidb> a11y and Ux overlap a lot, but the day to day work we do is more hardcore
  305. # [20:50] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from bzbarsky@mit.edu for attachment 600113 on bug 495912.
  306. # [20:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=495912 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Expose alternative content in Canvas element to ATs
  307. # [20:56] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from roc@ocallahan.org for attachment 600113 on bug 495912.
  308. # [21:18] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Connection reset by peer)
  309. # [21:19] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  310. # [22:05] <drexler> davidb: thx :)
  311. # [22:06] <@davidb> anytime :)
  312. # [22:16] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 727942 from --- to mozilla13.
  313. # [22:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727942 nor, --, mozilla13, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Windows app can't read Firefox setting for "zoom level"
  314. # [22:25] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-BD26ECCD.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356])
  315. # [22:27] <@tbsaunde> hub: that doesn't make the phrase "comming from" any clearer in the context of that bug, but I'm not really around atm
  316. # [22:40] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  317. # [22:59] <@hub> tbsaunde: sorry if I'm not clear.
  318. # [22:59] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  319. # [23:09] <@tbsaunde> hub: its fine, I'm pretty tired as well as busy
  320. # [23:13] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  321. # [23:33] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  322. # [23:35] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-BD26ECCD.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  323. # [23:54] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  324. # Session Close: Fri Feb 24 00:00:00 2012

The end :)