/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-02-23 / end
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- # Session Start: Thu Feb 23 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
- # [00:00] <imcoocoo> Note to self: using NVDA; which btw, does not understand the Customize Toolbar dialog proper; I.E., i can't even tab to the toolbar proper to rearrange items the way i want...
- # [00:00] * Joins: davidb (davidb@moz-7B22FBCF.eng.wind.ca)
- # [00:00] <imcoocoo> Even JAWS 10 doesn't understand the dialog either.
- # [00:02] <imcoocoo> Everyone talks like dragging and dropping is so great, uh him, you can't necessarily do that if you're totally blind to begin with... Not to mention, drag an item to the wrong place, and you'll usually regret it immediately.
- # [00:03] <imcoocoo> Sure feels like a rant, lol... And i don't wanna add hundreds of extenstions just to do 1 or 2 very biggy native tasks.
- # [00:04] <imcoocoo> As it goes, WebVisum and Noise are my two absolute drop-dead must-have extensions.
- # [00:05] <@tbsaunde> imcoocoo: for rearranging stuff you might have more luck asking google or fx-team
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- # [00:06] <@tbsaunde> I don't know much about how the ui works and wouldn't be suprised if that's the same most of the others around
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- # [01:09] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 691267 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [01:09] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 691267 to FIXED.
- # [01:09] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 691267 from --- to mozilla13.
- # [01:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691267 nor, --, mozilla13, andrew.quartey, RESO FIXED, HTML input button and HTML 4 button should share the same class
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- # [01:10] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 650241 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
- # [01:10] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 650241 to FIXED.
- # [01:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650241 nor, --, mozilla13, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Location returned by accessibles sometimes incorrect when page zoomed
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- # [01:33] <@firebot> neil@httl.net granted feedback for attachment 599342 on bug 291082.
- # [01:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291082 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, preventDefault doesn't block keyboard navigation in select-one drop-down lists
- # [01:44] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 599812 on bug 729384.
- # [01:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729384 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need a special interface for virtual cursor change events
- # [01:45] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 599813 on bug 729384.
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- # [01:48] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from askalski@mozilla.co m for attachment 599220 on bug 729154.
- # [01:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729154 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Telemetry for a11y instantiation by unknown cause.
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- # [05:47] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org changed the Status on bug 726097 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
- # [05:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=726097 blo, --, mozilla13, hub, VERI FIXED, Hit testing broken
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- # [05:52] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 599812 on bug 729384.
- # [05:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729384 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need a special interface for virtual cursor change events
- # [06:00] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 599813 on bug 729384.
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- # [06:23] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 729831 filed by jamie@nvaccess.org.
- # [06:23] <@firebot> Bug 729831 was not found.
- # [06:24] <Jamie> and that one is going to drive me insane for a while :)
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- # [06:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: does that crash look like the content for the accessible doesn't have a frame?
- # [06:35] <@surkov> it is, but not sure why
- # [06:35] <@tbsaunde> 8yeh, me too
- # [06:36] <@surkov> gotta go, if you get a time then please take a look
- # [06:37] <@tbsaunde> I'm not really sure to look at
- # [06:37] <@tbsaunde> see you
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- # [09:46] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 729861 filed by scoobidiver@netcourrier.com.
- # [09:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729861 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Crash in nsDocAccessible::GetAccessible
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- # [10:30] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 599813 on bug 729384.
- # [10:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729384 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need a special interface for virtual cursor change events
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- # [12:30] <@askalski> hi everyone
- # [12:32] <@MarcoZ> Hi askalski!
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- # [14:37] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 599959 on bug 473576.
- # [14:37] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested feedback from karlt@mozbugz.kar lt.net for attachment 599959 on bug 473576.
- # [14:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473576 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, font-family text attribute should expose actual font used
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- # [15:24] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 725259 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [15:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725259 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, ARIA role combobox shouldn't allow aria-valueXXX attributes
- # [15:30] <@askalski> tbsaunde, hi, I wanted to take this review
- # [15:31] <@askalski> what should I look for? just mochitest it, or try to reproduce?
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- # [15:55] <@tbsaunde> askalski: this ==? the one I asked you to?
- # [15:55] <@askalski> yes
- # [15:55] <@askalski> tbsaunde, yes
- # [15:55] <@tbsaunde> askalski: for that one just read the patch and make sure its it seems correct
- # [15:55] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok. no mochitests?
- # [15:55] <@tbsaunde> running mochitests yourself is silly imho since we have test machines to do that on every checkin
- # [15:56] <@askalski> tbsaunde, right
- # [15:56] <@tbsaunde> askalski: no real way to mochitest it
- # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> that I'm aware of, ofcourse if you have reasonable idea feel free to ask
- # [15:57] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok. I need to send my commiters agreement ... forgetting about it all the time
- # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> heh
- # [16:00] <@firebot> askalski@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 599220 on bug 729154.
- # [16:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729154 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Telemetry for a11y instantiation by unknown cause.
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- # [16:10] <@davidb> hi all!
- # [16:13] <Mark_Capella> davidb: I'll say hi!
- # [16:13] <@davidb> Mark_Capella: heheh how's the hacking?
- # [16:14] <Mark_Capella> davidb: good! Learning found another to get confused over
- # [16:14] <@davidb> that's a great opportunity then :)
- # [16:22] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
- # [16:23] <@askalski> oh, hi Davidb
- # [16:29] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Is there any test page that uses the current Orion dev code so one can try out their accessibility enhancements?
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- # [16:36] <@davidb> sorry - doing some system setup here.
- # [16:36] <@davidb> MarcoZ: not that i'm aware of
- # [16:37] <@davidb> well that's not true - i have googled online orion demo before
- # [16:38] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK! I don't suppose Nightly uses the latest Orion code...
- # [16:38] * @MarcoZ will let you continue the system setup stuff now, though. ;-)
- # [16:45] <@davidb> yeah i'm not sure how often they merge
- # [16:45] * @davidb fights with external monitor
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- # [17:00] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 600023 on bug 725259.
- # [17:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725259 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, ARIA role combobox shouldn't allow aria-valueXXX attributes
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- # [17:14] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 599220 on bug 729154.
- # [17:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729154 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Telemetry for a11y instantiation by unknown cause.
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- # [17:48] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you looking for a bug?
- # [17:48] <@davidb> (note bug 729831)
- # [17:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729831 cri, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Crash @ mozilla::a11y::StyleInfo::Margin
- # [17:52] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
- # [18:00] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I gave up on suffix arrays/suffix trees for now
- # [18:00] <@askalski> tbsaunde, and I want to send the immediate result (which still should be faster then original) solution
- # [18:00] <@askalski> tbsaunde, so I want to create a class that does the trick
- # [18:01] <@askalski> tbsaunde, where should I put it?
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- # [18:13] <@tbsaunde> askalski: why not just replace what's there now?
- # [18:13] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I have like 5 supporting methods to make code readable and debuggable
- # [18:13] <@askalski> tbsaunde, and they all operate on same arrays
- # [18:14] <@tbsaunde> askalski: so?
- # [18:14] <@askalski> tbsaunde, so putting it all into a single method is not really an option
- # [18:14] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I need some kind of wrapper, and class is perfect
- # [18:15] <@tbsaunde> davidb|afk: I'll look at those crashs when I have a minute, but iirc that one is on windows with steps to repro so probably better for you or Alex to work on it
- # [18:15] <@davidb|afk> ugh yeah
- # [18:15] <@tbsaunde> askalski: so add stuff to the text updator?
- # [18:17] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
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- # [18:21] <@askalski> tbsaunde, is it really so bad to add a new class?
- # [18:22] <@tbsaunde> askalski: no, but what is the point?
- # [18:22] * @tbsaunde wonders why davidb wants a second review on his telemetry patch
- # [18:24] <@askalski> tbsaunde, well, in my present implementation, all function names mimic the paper I was basing on, which makes it readable (if you know the paper, otherwise it's impossible to understand algorithm anyway)
- # [18:24] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I can either mix it with TextUpdater, and break the style
- # [18:24] <@davidb> tbsaunde: we need a peer or owner on each patch
- # [18:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: really? I thought it was legit if peers asked other people
- # [18:26] <@davidb> tbsaunde: that's fuzzy to me, but possibly true
- # [18:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well, surkov certainly asks other people :)
- # [18:27] <@davidb> does he r+ first?
- # [18:27] <@tbsaunde> I think it depends, but certainly not on patches he write
- # [18:27] <@davidb> heh
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- # [18:29] <@davidb> I'd be okay with transplanted trust.
- # [18:29] <@davidb> The module owners have final say on that.
- # [18:30] <@tbsaunde> yeah
- # [18:30] <@davidb> I didn't want to interrupt you and askalski here.
- # [18:30] <@askalski> tbsaunde, so what do you think, can I keep it as a separate class? I can nest it in TextUpdater
- # [18:31] <@askalski> but I guess keeping it in separate file may have some point
- # [18:31] <@tbsaunde> askalski: do what you think is reasonable :)
- # [18:31] <@askalski> ok, you'll see the patch proposition, and we'll talk again then
- # [18:35] <@tbsaunde> tbh if I was designing this I probably wouldn't hve made textupdator a class in the first place, but shrug
- # [18:41] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I wonder one thing
- # [18:41] <@askalski> tbsaunde, there is "skip prefix" argument
- # [18:41] <@askalski> usually, when I hack something for myself
- # [18:41] <@hub> just submitted a patch for a crasher. I don't know if that actually fixes it https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729861
- # [18:41] <@firebot> Bug 729861 cri, --, ---, hub, NEW, Crash in nsDocAccessible::GetAccessible
- # [18:42] <@askalski> I just do char * realstring = originalString + skipPrefix;
- # [18:42] <@askalski> so just moving the pointer. but here strings are classes
- # [18:42] <@askalski> are these randomly accessed (like std:string and std:vector in civilised implementations)?
- # [18:43] <@davidb> hub: do you have a windows vm?
- # [18:43] <@tbsaunde> askalski: I'm not sure I understand what your asking
- # [18:43] <@tbsaunde> they're all defined in xpcom/string/ but you have to dig through a couple layers of macros
- # [18:44] <@askalski> can I just hack some advanced pointers instead of just adding everywhere + prefix and -prefix
- # [18:44] <@askalski> ?
- # [18:44] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 600054 on bug 729861.
- # [18:44] <@hub> davidb: I have one, but no dev tools
- # [18:44] <@davidb> hub: can you build on it?
- # [18:44] <@tbsaunde> I believe you should be able to do PRUniChar* start = string.BeginReading() + aSkipStart;
- # [18:45] <@hub> davidb: no devtools
- # [18:45] * @davidb needs to decide whether to stay on current task or not
- # [18:45] <@davidb> ok
- # [18:45] <@davidb> hub: they are free ya know :)
- # [18:45] <@davidb> (as in beer)
- # [18:45] <@hub> davidb: at that point I'm willing to actually check in and see
- # [18:45] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [18:45] <@davidb> hub: how about a try build?
- # [18:45] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, but try is so much less painful ;)
- # [18:46] <@davidb> ok
- # [18:46] <@hub> I can do a try build, that's for sure
- # [18:46] <@davidb> i guess that's what hub meant
- # [18:46] <@davidb> ok
- # [18:46] <@davidb> go for it
- # [18:46] * @tbsaunde may or may not have debugged build errors into build with try
- # [18:46] <@hub> tbsaunde: I have done that too.
- # [18:46] <@davidb> then Jamie can verify at will
- # [18:47] <@davidb> I don't know what you guys mean
- # [18:47] <@davidb> ohhh
- # [18:47] <@davidb> got it :)
- # [18:47] <@tbsaunde> davidb: instead of booting my windows vm you keep pushing things to try
- # [18:47] <@davidb> yep
- # [18:49] <@hub> the thing is I don't know how to reproduce the crash
- # [18:49] <@hub> but it seems to be a top crasher
- # [18:49] <@hub> maybe it is time I get dressed to go to the office
- # [18:50] <khuey> psh
- # [18:50] <khuey> getting dressed is over rated
- # [18:50] <@askalski> tbsaunde, where I can find guidelines about naming conventions?
- # [18:51] <@tbsaunde> askalski: I'm not sure there's a great answer to that, we mostly follow the gecko style guide, but that isn't a great example of documentation ...
- # [18:51] <@tbsaunde> askalski: what do you want to know?
- # [18:52] <@hub> khuey: we have laws here
- # [18:53] <@askalski> tbsaunde, is there a certain suffix I should put on front of for example integer names?
- # [18:53] <@askalski> is for example stringLenght ok, or should I name it aStringLength or something
- # [18:55] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-BD26ECCD.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
- # [18:57] <@tbsaunde> askalski: only arguments start with a
- # [18:57] <@askalski> ok
- # [18:57] <@tbsaunde> and no we aren't mad so we don't use ral hungarian notation :p
- # [18:58] <@tbsaunde> hub: so, I don't immediately understand why tht code was the way it was, so I think I'm calling reviewing it surkov's problem
- # [19:11] <@hub> tbsaunde: ok
- # [19:12] <@hub> tbsaunde: contentDoc isn't the same as mDoc because we might be coming from outside, like the outer frame or something
- # [19:12] <@hub> tbsaunde: that's was part of the breakage in hittesting
- # [19:13] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 600054 on bug 729861.
- # [19:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729861 cri, --, ---, hub, NEW, Crash in nsDocAccessible::GetAccessible
- # [19:13] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> hub: can you explain "coming from outside"?
- # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> I didn't pay much attention to what the hit testing problem was exactly.
- # [19:19] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
- # [19:26] <@hub> tbsaunde: like coming from the chrome or the outer document
- # [19:29] <@hub> ok, going to the office. c-ya in 30
- # [19:30] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:31] * Quits: @hub (hub@83874EA1.EB7C1AF9.6F478678.IP) (Ping timeout)
- # [19:34] <@askalski> tbsaunde, do we have a max value define for PRUint32?
- # [19:34] <@askalski> tbsaunde, found it
- # [19:37] <@firebot> jh@junetz.de changed the Target Milestone on bug 718237 from --- to mozilla13.
- # [19:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718237 maj, --, mozilla13, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "accessible/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | Test timed out." (which also causes lot
- # [19:40] <@askalski> ok, I am finishing for today
- # [19:40] <@askalski> bye everyone
- # [19:41] <@davidb> good night!
- # [19:42] <@askalski> davidb, thanks
- # [19:42] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-4C8A107E.pool85-48-91.dynamic.orange.es) (Quit: Wychodzi)
- # [19:51] <drexler> just a general question. accessibility is interesting but what exactly drives the development here. With dom/layout i know what specs they follow but here??
- # [20:00] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
- # [20:00] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
- # [20:28] <@davidb> drexler: there are a few things...
- # [20:29] <@davidb> drexler: there are accessibility specifications, and normally we pioneer these.
- # [20:29] <@davidb> drexler: and there is that aspect where changes to dom/layout/browser/toolkit can require changes to our accessibility module
- # [20:30] <@davidb> then there is always performance work etc
- # [20:30] <@davidb> drexler: one big focus area needs to be b2g which is a game changer for accessibility approach to solving.
- # [20:31] <@hub> I like that :-)
- # [20:32] <@hub> a product is accessible if you can buy and use it without any further help
- # [20:32] <@hub> which is not the case in, say, the Asus Transformer
- # [20:33] <@davidb> drexler: example specs include http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/ http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/accessibility/iaccessible2 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms971310.aspx atk/at-spi etc
- # [20:33] <@davidb> hub: indeed
- # [20:33] <@davidb> disability is a mismatch between what the user requires and what the technology provides
- # [20:34] <@davidb> a11y and Ux overlap a lot, but the day to day work we do is more hardcore
- # [20:50] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from bzbarsky@mit.edu for attachment 600113 on bug 495912.
- # [20:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=495912 nor, --, ---, bolterbugz, NEW, Expose alternative content in Canvas element to ATs
- # [20:56] <@firebot> bolterbugz@gmail.com requested review from roc@ocallahan.org for attachment 600113 on bug 495912.
- # [21:18] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Connection reset by peer)
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- # [22:05] <drexler> davidb: thx :)
- # [22:06] <@davidb> anytime :)
- # [22:16] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 727942 from --- to mozilla13.
- # [22:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727942 nor, --, mozilla13, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Windows app can't read Firefox setting for "zoom level"
- # [22:25] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-BD26ECCD.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356])
- # [22:27] <@tbsaunde> hub: that doesn't make the phrase "comming from" any clearer in the context of that bug, but I'm not really around atm
- # [22:40] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [22:59] <@hub> tbsaunde: sorry if I'm not clear.
- # [22:59] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
- # [23:09] <@tbsaunde> hub: its fine, I'm pretty tired as well as busy
- # [23:13] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
- # [23:33] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
- # [23:35] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-BD26ECCD.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
- # [23:54] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
- # Session Close: Fri Feb 24 00:00:00 2012
The end :)