/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-03-06 / end
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- # Session Start: Tue Mar 06 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
- # [00:14] <@hub> tbsaunde: they explicitely said that removing the accessibility modules like TalkBack was no longer allowed in Android 4.
- # [00:15] <@tbsaunde> hub: oh, nice
- # [00:17] <@hub> tbsaunde: TV Raman was clear about that at CSUN, and I was confirming that the Asus Transformer gained them when upgrading to Android 4
- # [00:19] <@tbsaunde> hub: ok, that's good
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- # [02:56] <@firebot> sgautherie.bz@free.fr requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 603126 on bug 718237.
- # [02:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718237 maj, --, mozilla13, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "accessible/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | Test timed out." (which also causes lot
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- # [03:33] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(ginn.chen@oracle.co m) for attachment 602898 on bug 732908.
- # [03:33] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from ginn.chen@oracle.co m for attachment 603134 on bug 732908.
- # [03:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=732908 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Expose 'Firefox' and 'Thunderbird' as the accessible app names -- even for pre-release versions
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- # [04:51] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 603126 on bug 718237.
- # [04:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718237 maj, --, mozilla13, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "accessible/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | Test timed out." (which also causes lot
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- # [05:53] <@firebot> ginn.chen@oracle.com granted review for attachment 603134 on bug 732908.
- # [05:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=732908 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Expose 'Firefox' and 'Thunderbird' as the accessible app names -- even for pre-release versions
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- # [08:15] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 732872 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
- # [08:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=732872 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Firefox runs extremely slowly when Windows Speech Recognition is running
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- # Session Close: Tue Mar 06 09:44:48 2012
- #
- # Session Start: Tue Mar 06 09:44:48 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
- # [09:44] * Disconnected
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- # [09:45] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone" | release schedule: http://mzl.la/LNc0W'
- # [09:45] * Set by davidb on Thu Dec 08 15:12:17
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- # [11:06] <@askalski> hi everyone
- # [11:17] <@tbsaunde> hi
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- # [11:46] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 733335 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [11:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733335 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, dexpcom nsIEditableTextAccessible::GetAssociatedEditor
- # [11:46] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 603210 on bug 733335.
- # [11:46] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hey, what do you want the assign for the text to speech perf bug to do? since its not clear what's a fix other than generally better perf
- # [11:47] <@surkov> tbsaunde: get it fixed :) fixed is when perf is good enough :)
- # [11:47] <@surkov> finding each bottle neck and fix it
- # [11:48] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, makes sense
- # [11:48] <@surkov> I think I'll do series of state improvements but I don't think I can do everything
- # [11:48] <@tbsaunde> yeah
- # [11:48] <@tbsaunde> I wonder if implementing uia ourselves would help with all the time spent in the ms lib
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- # [11:58] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I assume your hoping that dexpcom will make states slightly faster
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- # [12:03] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that's right and I wanted to touch this area so decided to do small cleaningup
- # [12:03] <@surkov> p
- # [12:04] <@tbsaunde> sounds good
- # [12:27] <@askalski> surkov, is there a facility to check whether event list I generate creates a proper transformation or should I prove it externally?
- # [12:28] <@askalski> surkov, (textUpdate)
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- # [12:31] <@tbsaunde> askalski: we have tests that check the correct text events are fired
- # [12:32] <@askalski> tbsaunde, in mochitests, or somewhere else?
- # [12:32] <@askalski> surkov, , in mochitests, or somewhere else?
- # [12:32] <@askalski> tbsaunde, sorry, wrong address
- # [12:36] <@tbsaunde> askalski: yes, in mochitests
- # [12:54] <@surkov> thanks, tbsaunde :)
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- # [15:22] <@firebot> sgautherie.bz@free.fr changed the Target Milestone on bug 718237 from mozilla13 to ---.
- # [15:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718237 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "accessible/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | Test timed out." (which also causes lot
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- # [15:34] <@askalski> hi davidb
- # [15:34] <@davidb> hi!
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- # [15:36] <@tbsaunde> hi
- # [15:40] <@davidb> hi hi ni
- # [15:41] <@askalski> everyone, is there a way
- # [15:41] <@askalski> to run firefox in a randomized memory?
- # [15:41] <@askalski> I had an error in my code (uninitialized memory error)
- # [15:42] <@askalski> oh, or is there any other way to warn on usage of uninitialized memory :D?
- # [15:42] <@askalski> (especially dynamic)
- # [15:42] <@tbsaunde> askalski: valgrind?
- # [15:43] <@askalski> tbsaunde, he does that :D?
- # [15:43] <@tbsaunde> askalski: that is the main use of valgrind ;)
- # [15:43] <@tbsaunde> well, not quiet, but...
- # [15:43] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I used it only for tracing memory leaks
- # [15:44] <@tbsaunde> askalski: you might find --enable-debug and --enable-trace-malloc useful .mzoconfig / configure options
- # [15:45] <@tbsaunde> but I suspect valgrind will be eaiser
- # [15:45] <@tbsaunde> though note you need --disable-elfhack and --enable-valgrind in your mozconfig to use it
- # [15:46] <@tbsaunde> and run valgrind --smc-checkall or something similar, there should be a page on devmo I think
- # [15:47] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok, thanks
- # [15:47] <@tbsaunde> which if your very lucky and the gods are happy with your sacrifices may even be up to date ;)
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- # [16:43] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 733382 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [16:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733382 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, editable state bit shouldn't present on disabled inputs
- # [16:44] <@davidb> surkov: does it really matter? ^
- # [16:44] <@davidb> editable state bit
- # [16:44] <@surkov> davidb: in real world case?
- # [16:44] <@davidb> yeah
- # [16:44] <@davidb> it seems to me that is potentially useful info
- # [16:45] <@davidb> editable but disabled
- # [16:45] <@surkov> in real world dunno but these states aren't compatible
- # [16:45] <@davidb> i realize that interpretation.
- # [16:45] <@surkov> it cannot be editable till its disabled
- # [16:45] <@davidb> but as a visual person, i know if something would be editable if it wasn't disabled - generally, but visual inspection.
- # [16:46] <@surkov> not sure about you but I don't :)
- # [16:46] <@davidb> so it seems a bit unfair to remove the editable state
- # [16:46] * @davidb shrugs
- # [16:46] <@surkov> plain disabled text box doesn't have any evidence it can be editable
- # [16:46] <@davidb> it shows potential ;)
- # [16:46] <@surkov> for AT if they want to have some idea then they can use role for example
- # [16:47] <@davidb> there is not STATE_WOULDBEEDITABLEIFNOTDISABLED
- # [16:47] <@surkov> if it would be needed ever
- # [16:47] <@surkov> ok, I see you want to be reviewer of the patch
- # [16:47] <@davidb> surkov: did someone ask for it?
- # [16:47] <@davidb> :)
- # [16:48] <@surkov> no, just code browsing
- # [16:48] <@davidb> i feel like we discussed this before ;(
- # [16:48] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 603268 on bug 733382.
- # [16:50] <@davidb> surkov: ok i cc'ed jamie and comments.
- # [16:51] <@surkov> ok
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- # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> Hi there, all!
- # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb, eeejay, hub, surkov, tbsaunde :)
- # [18:05] <@davidb> hi!
- # [18:06] <@surkov> hey, MarcoZ !
- # [18:06] <@surkov> glad to see you well
- # [18:06] <@surkov> or see being well or how to say that in enlgish
- # [18:06] <@tbsaunde> hi
- # [18:07] <@davidb> see you well works
- # [18:07] <@surkov> thanks, davidb
- # [18:07] <@surkov> I thought that could be "I can see you good enough" :)
- # [18:07] <@surkov> could be/could mean
- # [18:07] <@davidb> for a pedant it might :)
- # [18:07] <@surkov> ok :)
- # [18:08] <@MarcoZ> Yeah I'm slowly leaving that crap infection behind me.
- # [18:09] <@MarcoZ> I still have quite a naughty cough, though, so am still not entirely over it. Also, tomorrow's the day the last antibiotic remnants will wear off, and it'll be interesting to see if that really was it, or if somehow the infection returns, and I need to get another medication treatment.
- # [18:09] <@MarcoZ> And add on top of that jetlag and whatever else this really weirdo trip might have caused in my biological rhythms.
- # [18:10] <@davidb> It was nice that you could still present.
- # [18:10] <@surkov> ah, it wasn't so good as I hoped
- # [18:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah I am so glad I could present! Would have made me feel terrible if I had let them down.
- # [18:13] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Getting sick on a travel is never good. :( Fortunately, this is the first in 14 years this has happened to me, so statistically I should be fine until 2026. :D
- # [18:13] <@surkov> :) yeah
- # [18:13] <@davidb> hehhe
- # [18:17] <@MarcoZ> I'll try to catch up on bugmail tomorrow. Anything urgent I should take a look a?
- # [18:18] <@davidb> MarcoZ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
- # [18:18] <@surkov> nah
- # [18:19] <@MarcoZ> davidb: "This video is not available in your country. " :P
- # [18:20] <@davidb> snap!
- # [18:21] * @davidb fails at rick rolling
- # [18:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: thanks for pushing that patch
- # [18:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yw!
- # [18:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: fwiw I agree with disabled things not being editable or selectable or checkable or ...
- # [18:22] <@surkov> again copyrights
- # [18:22] <@MarcoZ> Without knowing the full context, me too.
- # [18:22] <@hub> hi
- # [18:22] <@davidb> tbsaunde: so you want them removed?
- # [18:22] <@MarcoZ> Hi hub!
- # [18:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: unless someone objects yes I think they shouldn't be set
- # [18:23] <@davidb> it feels like taking info away to me.
- # [18:24] * @MarcoZ thinks....
- # [18:24] <@MarcoZ> Oh, this is about states, right?
- # [18:24] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: yes
- # [18:24] <@davidb> so my thinking is that disabled turns 'able' into 'would-be-able'
- # [18:24] <@surkov> having them presented makes AT to check unavailable state also to allow or disallow actions
- # [18:24] <@davidb> [check|select|*]able
- # [18:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: but they aren't editable or selectable or whatever
- # [18:25] <@davidb> right
- # [18:25] <@davidb> at this time
- # [18:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: but we don't really know if it would be
- # [18:25] <@davidb> ah so it could be disabled and truly editable?
- # [18:26] * @davidb shrugs
- # [18:26] <@tbsaunde> no, it could be disabled and not editable if it wasn't disabled
- # [18:26] <@davidb> true
- # [18:26] <@davidb> that's fine
- # [18:26] <@tbsaunde> and what you suggest might be possible too I'm not sure
- # [18:26] <@davidb> ok gotta step away - Enn is waiting for me
- # [18:26] <@MarcoZ> We do have a state disabled, so yes, I think those states should be presented for general info. The state disabled or unavailable, obviously, causes certain actions to not be available. But a text field in general is still editable, even though curently it is disabled. Disabled means it can't receive focus.
- # [18:27] <@surkov> MarcoZ: but what about focusable state if we talk about 'able' states?
- # [18:27] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: but if it can't be focused then text can't be entered, so it can't be edited
- # [18:27] <@surkov> true
- # [18:28] <@surkov> I wonder why would AT need that 'able' info for something that is not really 'able'
- # [18:29] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I'm not sure. I'd say throw this at Jamie, and also Joanie for Orca, to see what they think.
- # [18:29] <@surkov> Jamie is cc'ed to the bug (by default actually)
- # [18:29] <@surkov> and pinged :)
- # [18:30] <@tbsaunde> ok, I'm stepping out too
- # [18:31] * @MarcoZ too.
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- # [18:41] <@davidb> I guess my thinking is that if there are visual hints to what this disabled thing is/does, there should be non-visual ones too.
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- # [19:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde: does your laptop have wifi?
- # [19:15] <@davidb> have/do
- # [19:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: via usb wireless card
- # [19:17] <@tbsaunde> davidb: re visual hints I'm not really clear on the use case for disabled controls so I'm not really sure
- # [19:21] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
- # [19:26] <@davidb> yeah, I want us to do what works and I'm unsure ATM.
- # [19:28] <@tbsaunde> davidb: what's up with wifi?
- # [19:28] <@davidb> just scouting out rooms for the work week - we can't use the big common space this time
- # [19:28] <@tbsaunde> ok
- # [19:29] <@tbsaunde> fwiw I generally prefer wired even if wifi works
- # [19:30] <@davidb> yeah
- # [19:30] <@davidb> i think we'll have it
- # [19:58] <@davidb> eeejay: can you land on inbound yet?
- # [19:59] <@eeejay> davidb, nope
- # [19:59] <@eeejay> davidb, what do i do to advance to the next level?
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- # [20:00] <@davidb> eeejay: what level are you?
- # [20:00] <@eeejay> davidb, one
- # [20:00] <@davidb> see Bug 718478
- # [20:00] <@davidb>
- # [20:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718478 nor, --, ---, server-ops, RESO FIXED, Commit Access (Level 2) for Hub Figuiere
- # [20:00] <@hub> level 2 is not very useful
- # [20:00] <@hub> I can help to push if you need
- # [20:01] <@hub> time to go to the office
- # [20:01] <@davidb> hub: does it give you inbound?
- # [20:01] <@davidb> eeejay: it is best for you to file the bug to avoid confusion
- # [20:01] <@davidb> and cc me
- # [20:02] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net) (Ping timeout)
- # [20:08] <@eeejay> how does level 2 help? could you commit to inbound with it?
- # [20:09] <@davidb> think so
- # [20:12] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
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- # [20:17] <@eeejay> wow! tat was fast
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- # [21:46] <@hub> I did demo accessibile Fennec at lunch time
- # [21:54] <@davidb> !seen nfroyd
- # [21:54] <@firebot> nfroyd was last seen 13 weeks, 1 day, 1 hour, 33 minutes and 26 seconds ago, changing nick to froydnj.
- # [21:55] <@davidb> !seen froydnj
- # [21:55] <@firebot> froydnj was last seen 74 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying 'why if we already have it for one platform is it so difficult to make go for others? </ignorance>' in #developers.
- # [21:55] <@davidb> hub: how was it?
- # [21:55] <@davidb> I'm not great with virtual dpad yet
- # [21:59] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 733510 filed by dbolter@mozilla.com.
- # [21:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733510 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Transition boolean a11y telemetry to 'flag' telemetry as appropriate
- # [22:02] <@hub> davidb: I have a Nexus One so I have the trackball
- # [22:02] <@davidb> ah yes
- # [22:02] <@hub> it was very informal. I was just showing it
- # [22:02] <@davidb> cool
- # [22:02] <@hub> like navigation a google search page
- # [22:08] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 733513 filed by hub@mozilla.com.
- # [22:08] <@firebot> Bug 733513 was not found.
- # [22:08] <@hub> bug 733513
- # [22:09] <@hub> anyway, this the the bug for enabling a11y on mac for FF14
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- # [22:27] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
- # [22:35] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I'm pretty sure you need to ask for level 3 for inbound since its merged to m-c without any checking
- # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> hub: level 2 is sort of useful if you do webdev or something in svn
- # [22:36] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, is it necessary to go through level 2, or should i just change the bug to level 3?
- # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> but yeah, I don't know of any place it would help most people
- # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: no, just change the bug
- # [22:36] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, cool. thanks
- # [22:37] <@tbsaunde> np
- # [22:51] <@tbsaunde> hub: I suspect the prefered way to enable a11y on mac would be to chnge the defaults in configure.in
- # [22:53] <@hub> yes level3 is required for inbound
- # [22:56] <@hub> tbsaunde: mmm, yeah looks like that the way it is
- # [23:07] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: you field a new bug sking for level three and then said level 2 in the description ;p
- # [23:07] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, borks. thanks for snooping
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- # [23:41] <@hub> wow, Gruber had a very intersting link about a11y
- # [23:41] <@hub> http://www.hofstader.com/node/10
- # [23:48] <@tbsaunde> oh, god politics :-(
- # [23:50] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # Session Close: Wed Mar 07 00:00:00 2012
The end :)