/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-03-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Mar 06 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:14] <@hub> tbsaunde: they explicitely said that removing the accessibility modules like TalkBack was no longer allowed in Android 4.
  4. # [00:15] <@tbsaunde> hub: oh, nice
  5. # [00:17] <@hub> tbsaunde: TV Raman was clear about that at CSUN, and I was confirming that the Asus Transformer gained them when upgrading to Android 4
  6. # [00:19] <@tbsaunde> hub: ok, that's good
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  12. # [02:56] <@firebot> sgautherie.bz@free.fr requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 603126 on bug 718237.
  13. # [02:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718237 maj, --, mozilla13, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "accessible/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | Test timed out." (which also causes lot
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  16. # [03:33] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(ginn.chen@oracle.co m) for attachment 602898 on bug 732908.
  17. # [03:33] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from ginn.chen@oracle.co m for attachment 603134 on bug 732908.
  18. # [03:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=732908 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Expose 'Firefox' and 'Thunderbird' as the accessible app names -- even for pre-release versions
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  21. # [04:51] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 603126 on bug 718237.
  22. # [04:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718237 maj, --, mozilla13, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "accessible/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | Test timed out." (which also causes lot
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  33. # [05:53] <@firebot> ginn.chen@oracle.com granted review for attachment 603134 on bug 732908.
  34. # [05:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=732908 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Expose 'Firefox' and 'Thunderbird' as the accessible app names -- even for pre-release versions
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  44. # [08:15] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 732872 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
  45. # [08:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=732872 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Firefox runs extremely slowly when Windows Speech Recognition is running
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  50. # Session Close: Tue Mar 06 09:44:48 2012
  51. #
  52. # Session Start: Tue Mar 06 09:44:48 2012
  53. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  57. # [09:45] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone" | release schedule: http://mzl.la/LNc0W'
  58. # [09:45] * Set by davidb on Thu Dec 08 15:12:17
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  64. # [11:06] <@askalski> hi everyone
  65. # [11:17] <@tbsaunde> hi
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  70. # [11:46] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 733335 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  71. # [11:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733335 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, dexpcom nsIEditableTextAccessible::GetAssociatedEditor
  72. # [11:46] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 603210 on bug 733335.
  73. # [11:46] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hey, what do you want the assign for the text to speech perf bug to do? since its not clear what's a fix other than generally better perf
  74. # [11:47] <@surkov> tbsaunde: get it fixed :) fixed is when perf is good enough :)
  75. # [11:47] <@surkov> finding each bottle neck and fix it
  76. # [11:48] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, makes sense
  77. # [11:48] <@surkov> I think I'll do series of state improvements but I don't think I can do everything
  78. # [11:48] <@tbsaunde> yeah
  79. # [11:48] <@tbsaunde> I wonder if implementing uia ourselves would help with all the time spent in the ms lib
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  83. # [11:58] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I assume your hoping that dexpcom will make states slightly faster
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  85. # [12:03] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that's right and I wanted to touch this area so decided to do small cleaningup
  86. # [12:03] <@surkov> p
  87. # [12:04] <@tbsaunde> sounds good
  88. # [12:27] <@askalski> surkov, is there a facility to check whether event list I generate creates a proper transformation or should I prove it externally?
  89. # [12:28] <@askalski> surkov, (textUpdate)
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  91. # [12:31] <@tbsaunde> askalski: we have tests that check the correct text events are fired
  92. # [12:32] <@askalski> tbsaunde, in mochitests, or somewhere else?
  93. # [12:32] <@askalski> surkov, , in mochitests, or somewhere else?
  94. # [12:32] <@askalski> tbsaunde, sorry, wrong address
  95. # [12:36] <@tbsaunde> askalski: yes, in mochitests
  96. # [12:54] <@surkov> thanks, tbsaunde :)
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  103. # [15:22] <@firebot> sgautherie.bz@free.fr changed the Target Milestone on bug 718237 from mozilla13 to ---.
  104. # [15:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718237 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [SeaMonkey] "accessible/events/test_focus_autocomplete.xul | Test timed out." (which also causes lot
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  110. # [15:34] <@askalski> hi davidb
  111. # [15:34] <@davidb> hi!
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  113. # [15:36] <@tbsaunde> hi
  114. # [15:40] <@davidb> hi hi ni
  115. # [15:41] <@askalski> everyone, is there a way
  116. # [15:41] <@askalski> to run firefox in a randomized memory?
  117. # [15:41] <@askalski> I had an error in my code (uninitialized memory error)
  118. # [15:42] <@askalski> oh, or is there any other way to warn on usage of uninitialized memory :D?
  119. # [15:42] <@askalski> (especially dynamic)
  120. # [15:42] <@tbsaunde> askalski: valgrind?
  121. # [15:43] <@askalski> tbsaunde, he does that :D?
  122. # [15:43] <@tbsaunde> askalski: that is the main use of valgrind ;)
  123. # [15:43] <@tbsaunde> well, not quiet, but...
  124. # [15:43] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I used it only for tracing memory leaks
  125. # [15:44] <@tbsaunde> askalski: you might find --enable-debug and --enable-trace-malloc useful .mzoconfig / configure options
  126. # [15:45] <@tbsaunde> but I suspect valgrind will be eaiser
  127. # [15:45] <@tbsaunde> though note you need --disable-elfhack and --enable-valgrind in your mozconfig to use it
  128. # [15:46] <@tbsaunde> and run valgrind --smc-checkall or something similar, there should be a page on devmo I think
  129. # [15:47] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok, thanks
  130. # [15:47] <@tbsaunde> which if your very lucky and the gods are happy with your sacrifices may even be up to date ;)
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  141. # [16:43] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 733382 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  142. # [16:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733382 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, editable state bit shouldn't present on disabled inputs
  143. # [16:44] <@davidb> surkov: does it really matter? ^
  144. # [16:44] <@davidb> editable state bit
  145. # [16:44] <@surkov> davidb: in real world case?
  146. # [16:44] <@davidb> yeah
  147. # [16:44] <@davidb> it seems to me that is potentially useful info
  148. # [16:45] <@davidb> editable but disabled
  149. # [16:45] <@surkov> in real world dunno but these states aren't compatible
  150. # [16:45] <@davidb> i realize that interpretation.
  151. # [16:45] <@surkov> it cannot be editable till its disabled
  152. # [16:45] <@davidb> but as a visual person, i know if something would be editable if it wasn't disabled - generally, but visual inspection.
  153. # [16:46] <@surkov> not sure about you but I don't :)
  154. # [16:46] <@davidb> so it seems a bit unfair to remove the editable state
  155. # [16:46] * @davidb shrugs
  156. # [16:46] <@surkov> plain disabled text box doesn't have any evidence it can be editable
  157. # [16:46] <@davidb> it shows potential ;)
  158. # [16:46] <@surkov> for AT if they want to have some idea then they can use role for example
  159. # [16:47] <@davidb> there is not STATE_WOULDBEEDITABLEIFNOTDISABLED
  160. # [16:47] <@surkov> if it would be needed ever
  161. # [16:47] <@surkov> ok, I see you want to be reviewer of the patch
  162. # [16:47] <@davidb> surkov: did someone ask for it?
  163. # [16:47] <@davidb> :)
  164. # [16:48] <@surkov> no, just code browsing
  165. # [16:48] <@davidb> i feel like we discussed this before ;(
  166. # [16:48] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 603268 on bug 733382.
  167. # [16:50] <@davidb> surkov: ok i cc'ed jamie and comments.
  168. # [16:51] <@surkov> ok
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  181. # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> Hi there, all!
  182. # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb, eeejay, hub, surkov, tbsaunde :)
  183. # [18:05] <@davidb> hi!
  184. # [18:06] <@surkov> hey, MarcoZ !
  185. # [18:06] <@surkov> glad to see you well
  186. # [18:06] <@surkov> or see being well or how to say that in enlgish
  187. # [18:06] <@tbsaunde> hi
  188. # [18:07] <@davidb> see you well works
  189. # [18:07] <@surkov> thanks, davidb
  190. # [18:07] <@surkov> I thought that could be "I can see you good enough" :)
  191. # [18:07] <@surkov> could be/could mean
  192. # [18:07] <@davidb> for a pedant it might :)
  193. # [18:07] <@surkov> ok :)
  194. # [18:08] <@MarcoZ> Yeah I'm slowly leaving that crap infection behind me.
  195. # [18:09] <@MarcoZ> I still have quite a naughty cough, though, so am still not entirely over it. Also, tomorrow's the day the last antibiotic remnants will wear off, and it'll be interesting to see if that really was it, or if somehow the infection returns, and I need to get another medication treatment.
  196. # [18:09] <@MarcoZ> And add on top of that jetlag and whatever else this really weirdo trip might have caused in my biological rhythms.
  197. # [18:10] <@davidb> It was nice that you could still present.
  198. # [18:10] <@surkov> ah, it wasn't so good as I hoped
  199. # [18:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah I am so glad I could present! Would have made me feel terrible if I had let them down.
  200. # [18:13] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Getting sick on a travel is never good. :( Fortunately, this is the first in 14 years this has happened to me, so statistically I should be fine until 2026. :D
  201. # [18:13] <@surkov> :) yeah
  202. # [18:13] <@davidb> hehhe
  203. # [18:17] <@MarcoZ> I'll try to catch up on bugmail tomorrow. Anything urgent I should take a look a?
  204. # [18:18] <@davidb> MarcoZ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
  205. # [18:18] <@surkov> nah
  206. # [18:19] <@MarcoZ> davidb: "This video is not available in your country. " :P
  207. # [18:20] <@davidb> snap!
  208. # [18:21] * @davidb fails at rick rolling
  209. # [18:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: thanks for pushing that patch
  210. # [18:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yw!
  211. # [18:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: fwiw I agree with disabled things not being editable or selectable or checkable or ...
  212. # [18:22] <@surkov> again copyrights
  213. # [18:22] <@MarcoZ> Without knowing the full context, me too.
  214. # [18:22] <@hub> hi
  215. # [18:22] <@davidb> tbsaunde: so you want them removed?
  216. # [18:22] <@MarcoZ> Hi hub!
  217. # [18:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: unless someone objects yes I think they shouldn't be set
  218. # [18:23] <@davidb> it feels like taking info away to me.
  219. # [18:24] * @MarcoZ thinks....
  220. # [18:24] <@MarcoZ> Oh, this is about states, right?
  221. # [18:24] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: yes
  222. # [18:24] <@davidb> so my thinking is that disabled turns 'able' into 'would-be-able'
  223. # [18:24] <@surkov> having them presented makes AT to check unavailable state also to allow or disallow actions
  224. # [18:24] <@davidb> [check|select|*]able
  225. # [18:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: but they aren't editable or selectable or whatever
  226. # [18:25] <@davidb> right
  227. # [18:25] <@davidb> at this time
  228. # [18:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: but we don't really know if it would be
  229. # [18:25] <@davidb> ah so it could be disabled and truly editable?
  230. # [18:26] * @davidb shrugs
  231. # [18:26] <@tbsaunde> no, it could be disabled and not editable if it wasn't disabled
  232. # [18:26] <@davidb> true
  233. # [18:26] <@davidb> that's fine
  234. # [18:26] <@tbsaunde> and what you suggest might be possible too I'm not sure
  235. # [18:26] <@davidb> ok gotta step away - Enn is waiting for me
  236. # [18:26] <@MarcoZ> We do have a state disabled, so yes, I think those states should be presented for general info. The state disabled or unavailable, obviously, causes certain actions to not be available. But a text field in general is still editable, even though curently it is disabled. Disabled means it can't receive focus.
  237. # [18:27] <@surkov> MarcoZ: but what about focusable state if we talk about 'able' states?
  238. # [18:27] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: but if it can't be focused then text can't be entered, so it can't be edited
  239. # [18:27] <@surkov> true
  240. # [18:28] <@surkov> I wonder why would AT need that 'able' info for something that is not really 'able'
  241. # [18:29] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I'm not sure. I'd say throw this at Jamie, and also Joanie for Orca, to see what they think.
  242. # [18:29] <@surkov> Jamie is cc'ed to the bug (by default actually)
  243. # [18:29] <@surkov> and pinged :)
  244. # [18:30] <@tbsaunde> ok, I'm stepping out too
  245. # [18:31] * @MarcoZ too.
  246. # [18:31] * Quits: @MarcoZ (marco.zehe@moz-14FB428A.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: See you later!)
  247. # [18:38] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@8D033FC0.5EFF84F1.5D3F4C44.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  248. # [18:41] <@davidb> I guess my thinking is that if there are visual hints to what this disabled thing is/does, there should be non-visual ones too.
  249. # [18:44] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Quit: nhirata)
  250. # [18:47] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@8142F2D6.6BD22D89.79933D60.IP) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
  251. # [19:02] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-BD26ECCD.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  252. # [19:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde: does your laptop have wifi?
  253. # [19:15] <@davidb> have/do
  254. # [19:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: via usb wireless card
  255. # [19:17] <@tbsaunde> davidb: re visual hints I'm not really clear on the use case for disabled controls so I'm not really sure
  256. # [19:21] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  257. # [19:26] <@davidb> yeah, I want us to do what works and I'm unsure ATM.
  258. # [19:28] <@tbsaunde> davidb: what's up with wifi?
  259. # [19:28] <@davidb> just scouting out rooms for the work week - we can't use the big common space this time
  260. # [19:28] <@tbsaunde> ok
  261. # [19:29] <@tbsaunde> fwiw I generally prefer wired even if wifi works
  262. # [19:30] <@davidb> yeah
  263. # [19:30] <@davidb> i think we'll have it
  264. # [19:58] <@davidb> eeejay: can you land on inbound yet?
  265. # [19:59] <@eeejay> davidb, nope
  266. # [19:59] <@eeejay> davidb, what do i do to advance to the next level?
  267. # [20:00] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@8142F2D6.6BD22D89.79933D60.IP)
  268. # [20:00] <@davidb> eeejay: what level are you?
  269. # [20:00] <@eeejay> davidb, one
  270. # [20:00] <@davidb> see Bug 718478
  271. # [20:00] <@davidb>
  272. # [20:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718478 nor, --, ---, server-ops, RESO FIXED, Commit Access (Level 2) for Hub Figuiere
  273. # [20:00] <@hub> level 2 is not very useful
  274. # [20:00] <@hub> I can help to push if you need
  275. # [20:01] <@hub> time to go to the office
  276. # [20:01] <@davidb> hub: does it give you inbound?
  277. # [20:01] <@davidb> eeejay: it is best for you to file the bug to avoid confusion
  278. # [20:01] <@davidb> and cc me
  279. # [20:02] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net) (Ping timeout)
  280. # [20:08] <@eeejay> how does level 2 help? could you commit to inbound with it?
  281. # [20:09] <@davidb> think so
  282. # [20:12] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  283. # [20:13] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  284. # [20:17] <@eeejay> wow! tat was fast
  285. # [20:20] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  286. # [20:20] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  287. # [20:40] * Joins: satdav (satdav@moz-1ECB932B.cable.virginmedia.com)
  288. # [20:45] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Input/output error)
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  290. # [21:09] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
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  292. # [21:46] <@hub> I did demo accessibile Fennec at lunch time
  293. # [21:54] <@davidb> !seen nfroyd
  294. # [21:54] <@firebot> nfroyd was last seen 13 weeks, 1 day, 1 hour, 33 minutes and 26 seconds ago, changing nick to froydnj.
  295. # [21:55] <@davidb> !seen froydnj
  296. # [21:55] <@firebot> froydnj was last seen 74 minutes and 24 seconds ago, saying 'why if we already have it for one platform is it so difficult to make go for others? </ignorance>' in #developers.
  297. # [21:55] <@davidb> hub: how was it?
  298. # [21:55] <@davidb> I'm not great with virtual dpad yet
  299. # [21:59] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 733510 filed by dbolter@mozilla.com.
  300. # [21:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733510 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Transition boolean a11y telemetry to 'flag' telemetry as appropriate
  301. # [22:02] <@hub> davidb: I have a Nexus One so I have the trackball
  302. # [22:02] <@davidb> ah yes
  303. # [22:02] <@hub> it was very informal. I was just showing it
  304. # [22:02] <@davidb> cool
  305. # [22:02] <@hub> like navigation a google search page
  306. # [22:08] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 733513 filed by hub@mozilla.com.
  307. # [22:08] <@firebot> Bug 733513 was not found.
  308. # [22:08] <@hub> bug 733513
  309. # [22:09] <@hub> anyway, this the the bug for enabling a11y on mac for FF14
  310. # [22:13] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  311. # [22:14] * Quits: satdav (satdav@moz-1ECB932B.cable.virginmedia.com) (Connection reset by peer)
  312. # [22:27] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  313. # [22:35] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I'm pretty sure you need to ask for level 3 for inbound since its merged to m-c without any checking
  314. # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> hub: level 2 is sort of useful if you do webdev or something in svn
  315. # [22:36] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, is it necessary to go through level 2, or should i just change the bug to level 3?
  316. # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> but yeah, I don't know of any place it would help most people
  317. # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: no, just change the bug
  318. # [22:36] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, cool. thanks
  319. # [22:37] <@tbsaunde> np
  320. # [22:51] <@tbsaunde> hub: I suspect the prefered way to enable a11y on mac would be to chnge the defaults in configure.in
  321. # [22:53] <@hub> yes level3 is required for inbound
  322. # [22:56] <@hub> tbsaunde: mmm, yeah looks like that the way it is
  323. # [23:07] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: you field a new bug sking for level three and then said level 2 in the description ;p
  324. # [23:07] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, borks. thanks for snooping
  325. # [23:09] * Quits: clown_mtg (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  326. # [23:14] * Joins: davidb (davidb@471D72E.2257F909.F30C9E9E.IP)
  327. # [23:14] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  328. # [23:19] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@471D72E.2257F909.F30C9E9E.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  329. # [23:41] <@hub> wow, Gruber had a very intersting link about a11y
  330. # [23:41] <@hub> http://www.hofstader.com/node/10
  331. # [23:48] <@tbsaunde> oh, god politics :-(
  332. # [23:50] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  333. # Session Close: Wed Mar 07 00:00:00 2012

The end :)