/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-03-26 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Mar 26 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  7. # [03:07] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 739114 filed by sharat48909@gmail.com.
  8. # [03:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739114 maj, P2, Firefox 5, nobody, UNCO, mozilla webbrowser 5.0 is crashing in windows 8 version
  9. # [03:11] <@firebot> tanner.sumo.bugs@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 739114 from Keyboard Navigation to Untriaged.
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  17. # [06:28] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how do you feel about making GetDocumentNode() inline on nsDocAccessible?
  18. # [06:29] <@surkov> mm, tbsaunde, you could keep it inline on nsAccessNode like return mContent->OwnerDoc()
  19. # [06:29] <@surkov> in long term it doesn't work
  20. # [06:29] <@surkov> anyway if we need it on nsDocAccessibe mostly then I'm fine
  21. # [06:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why doesn't it work long term?
  22. # [06:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think the only thing we actually call it on is doc accessibles, and they already know there doc is why I suggested that
  23. # [06:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think we should allow document accessible without mContent
  24. # [06:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: then it makes sense
  25. # [06:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, but would document accessibles still have a pointer to their content doc?
  26. # [06:40] <@surkov> nsIDocument? yes
  27. # [06:41] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah
  28. # [06:41] <@tbsaunde> so then afaik it'll be fine since currently GetDocumentNode() on doc accessibles just returns mDocument
  29. # [06:42] <@surkov> yes
  30. # [06:59] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739130 filed by trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  31. # [06:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739130 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, make GetDocumentNode() inline on nsDocAccessible
  32. # [07:12] <Mark_Capella> tbsaunde: do you mind if I copy some of the above log to the bug comments? If might like to work this one later and the extra info would help
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  34. # [07:26] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: sure
  35. # [07:30] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 726071.
  36. # [07:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=726071 nor, --, mozilla14, markcapella, RESO FIXED, get rid nsAccUtils::GetPositionAndSizeForXULSelectControlItem
  37. # [07:50] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: what was the number of the bug for enums in nsAccessible?
  38. # [07:50] <Mark_Capella> bug738886
  39. # [07:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=738886 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Address / Improve enums in nsaccessbile.h
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  55. # [09:57] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 608785 on bug 727942.
  56. # [09:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727942 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Windows app can't read Firefox setting for "zoom level"
  57. # [10:03] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-FD55C096.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  58. # [10:12] <Mark_Capella> surkov: can i nag @ u for reviews on bug734982 and bug737724 ? (maybe u already saw)
  59. # [10:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734982 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map ARIA role "form".
  60. # [10:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, make IsDefunct() inline
  61. # [10:13] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: I'm on it
  62. # [10:13] <Mark_Capella> :) very nice
  63. # [10:16] <Mark_Capella> tbsaunde: could i also get a more lengthy explanation of what you're looking for on bug 735645 ?
  64. # [10:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735645 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, expose sub and sup elements in text attributes
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  68. # [10:19] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: sure
  69. # [10:20] <Mark_Capella> :) more nice
  70. # [10:20] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: anything in particular you want to know?
  71. # [10:22] <Mark_Capella> just something in english ... im reading the bug, and the one it refers back to ... whats missing? sub/sup seems to work ...
  72. # [10:22] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: what do you mean "seems to work"?
  73. # [10:27] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: do you mean you can add a mochitest for the sup and sub html elements having the correct text attribute and it passes with no changes to c++?
  74. # [10:29] <Mark_Capella> dang ... I'm probably coming @ this back-asswards ... I can't see the test that fails ...
  75. # [10:30] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: well, faik there isn't a test yet
  76. # [10:30] <@tbsaunde> *afaik
  77. # [10:33] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: you should add tests that the text in <sub>some subscript text</sub> has the textPosition "sub"
  78. # [10:33] <@tbsaunde> text attribute
  79. # [10:33] <@tbsaunde> and the reverse for <sup> and the sup text position
  80. # [10:37] <Mark_Capella> ok ... I'll wait to "take" the bug until I understand it better I'm still a [good first bug] kinda guy :)
  81. # [10:37] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: what's hard to understand?
  82. # [10:46] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: you see what GetTextPosValue() does right?
  83. # [10:47] <Mark_Capella> yah - i believe i follow that routine
  84. # [10:47] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com denied review for attachment 608961 on bug 737724.
  85. # [10:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, make IsDefunct() inline
  86. # [10:47] <Mark_Capella> :( dang
  87. # [10:48] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: you might need a help from tbsaunde to fix concerns
  88. # [10:48] <Mark_Capella> surkov: ok ... i saw the deny ... brb
  89. # [10:49] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: because we should regress in crashes I think
  90. # [10:49] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: so, that function handles the case that text has been made a superscript or a subscript using css, but we should also handle the case it is super script or subscript because of native markup
  91. # [10:50] <Mark_Capella> tbsaunde: ok
  92. # [10:50] <@tbsaunde> so, in that method you should get the content for the frame that was passed in and get the tag to see if it is a html sub or sup element
  93. # [10:51] <@tbsaunde> and then return an element of the enum acordingly
  94. # [10:52] <Mark_Capella> ok - i had that germ of an idea somewhere along the line ... "frame" is new/foreign concept ...
  95. # [10:53] <Mark_Capella> internal structures still get me
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  97. # [10:56] <Mark_Capella> i had a bug with alex and I couldnt translate between nsIContent* and a nsAccessible* for example
  98. # [10:56] <Mark_Capella> too me forever to make the leap
  99. # [10:59] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 608962 on bug 734982.
  100. # [10:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734982 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map ARIA role "form".
  101. # [11:04] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: make sense now?
  102. # [11:05] <Mark_Capella> tbsaunde: a heck of a lot moreso ! :) I've got more to go on now ... thats all I need for the moment
  103. # [11:06] <Mark_Capella> and I just had a patch ripped up :) so I have to look back to that first ...
  104. # [11:09] <@tbsaunde> sure
  105. # [11:19] <Mark_Capella> oh i was wrong it passed review with nits :)
  106. # [11:24] <@MarcoZ> Hi gentlemen!
  107. # [11:24] <@tbsaunde> hey MarcoZ
  108. # [11:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: you still wnat to densify class names right?
  109. # [11:26] <@tbsaunde> actually, I don't want to worry about that until we actually have a generic folder in the tree :)
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  112. # [12:13] <icaaq> Hi, I'm looking for a open source screen magnification app that works for osx, any suggestion?
  113. # [12:18] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled superreview?(neil@httl.net) for attachment 608942 on bug 648265.
  114. # [12:18] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested superreview from neil@httl.net for attachment 609270 on bug 648265.
  115. # [12:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=648265 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, provide dexcomed table interface version
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  117. # [12:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what does densify class names mean?
  118. # [12:33] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 608887 on bug 718627.
  119. # [12:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718627 nor, P1, ---, hub, ASSI, [Mac] Navigating by character, or interacting with, the text in the awesome bar does not speak the c
  120. # [12:35] <@surkov> MarcoZ, did you hear about open sourse osx screen magnifiers (cc icaaq)?
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  123. # [12:36] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Nope. Apple provide their own Zoom functionality in OS X, and as far as I know, like for screen readers, nobody developed a screen magnifier.
  124. # [12:37] <icaaq> MarcoZ: ok, thanks. was looking for alternatives :) cc surkov
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  126. # [12:42] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: I guess since Apple includes its integrated solution, nobody bothered.
  127. # [12:42] <icaaq> MarcoZ: yes
  128. # [12:44] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I meant do things like nsRootAccessible -> RootAccessible, but realized we should wait for the table patch to land before worrying about it
  129. # [12:44] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that's right
  130. # [12:48] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, I'm still not clear on how a mTreeView goes away before we shut the accessible down
  131. # [12:49] <@surkov> tbsaunde: TreeViewChanged I think
  132. # [12:49] <@surkov> do something like treeBoxObj.view = null in java script and you do that
  133. # [12:53] <@askalski> hi everyone
  134. # [12:53] <@tbsaunde> hi askalski you were looking for me yesterday?
  135. # [12:53] <@askalski> tbsaunde, yes. I have a question
  136. # [12:54] <@askalski> tbsaunde, is there a way to do check what binary created a particular accessible node?
  137. # [12:55] <@askalski> tbsaunde, eeejay in his project look for firefox window by looking for "document:loaded" event, which is a possible source of instability in general case
  138. # [12:55] <Mark_Capella> surov: you did review+ on bug734982 but also asked for changes ... do I post another attachment and ask for review again?
  139. # [12:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734982 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map ARIA role "form".
  140. # [12:55] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I would like to look for a simple "give me /home/andrzej/bin/firefox-bin window"
  141. # [12:55] <Mark_Capella> surkov: ---^
  142. # [12:59] <@askalski> tbsaunde, any ideas?
  143. # [13:00] <@tbsaunde> askalski: well, you can get the name of the application by crawling up the tree if you have an accessible
  144. # [13:01] <@tbsaunde> but I don't believe you can get the binary that that application is for
  145. # [13:01] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ok. thanks.
  146. # [13:02] <@tbsaunde> askalski: or are you trying to get the application accessible for an app given its binary?
  147. # [13:04] <@askalski> tbsaunde, that would work even better
  148. # [13:05] <@tbsaunde> askalski: well, then the simple solution is to arrange for there to be no other accessible pplications other than the one you want to test
  149. # [13:05] <@askalski> tbsaunde, now the only way I know I can grab an accessible right now is to get desktop and dive in the tree :)
  150. # [13:05] <@askalski> askalski, arrange? You mean - run in virtualized environment, right?
  151. # [13:05] <@askalski> tbsaunde, ^
  152. # [13:05] <@tbsaunde> askalski: that and grabing accessibles as targets of events is the way ats usually do it...
  153. # [13:05] <@askalski> tbsaunde, and what about virtual desktops?
  154. # [13:06] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I could create a virtual desktop, call it some way etc
  155. # [13:06] <@tbsaunde> askalski: well, by arrange I mean set up the world so its true, virtualizing the enviroment would be one way to do that
  156. # [13:07] <@tbsaunde> askalski: if you want to test the firefox tree what's wrong with just walking through the kids of the deskot until you find one with name "firefox" and then you have the rapplication accessible for us
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  158. # [13:08] <@askalski> tbsaunde, yes, I imagined this option. I just thought there might be more friendly ways to do it
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  161. # [13:08] <@tbsaunde> askalski: na, its perfectly fine
  162. # [13:09] <@askalski> tbsaunde, in the beginning of my employment, someone told me to use some x??? screen virtualizer for dekstop. do you remember it's name?
  163. # [13:09] <@tbsaunde> askalski: to do what?
  164. # [13:09] <@askalski> tbsaunde, there was some 4-letter command containing x that created a virtual x-display
  165. # [13:10] <@tbsaunde> askalski: well, there's xvfb and xnest, but I'm really confused what your trying to do here...
  166. # [13:10] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 609279 on bug 734982.
  167. # [13:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734982 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map ARIA role "form".
  168. # [13:11] <@askalski> tbsaunde, in pyatspi I have a way to list desktops. If I created one artificial one for firefox (and gave it a very strange name) that would be a good approach to ensure I will not grab coincidentally some other "firefox" window
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  170. # [13:13] <@tbsaunde> askalski: well, pyatspi only has one desktop with multiple applications under it
  171. # [13:14] <@tbsaunde> you might be able t get two completely seperate setups of pyatspi and the at-spi registryd, but that would be tricky and take a lot of work
  172. # [13:14] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: you don't need to ask for review again I think, those changes are nits
  173. # [13:14] <@askalski> tbsaunde, then why does it have a "getDesktopCount" method at all?
  174. # [13:15] <Mark_Capella> wasnt sure of the rules, i changed it, so thought new patch needed new review
  175. # [13:15] <@tbsaunde> askalski: becuase some sun engineers decided to over engineer things 10 years ago :/
  176. # [13:15] <@tbsaunde> askalski: there's a bug to clean that up somehow iirc
  177. # [13:16] <@tbsaunde> askalski: its kind of a dumb simple minded approach, but for now I think you should just grab the first firefox application you find
  178. # [13:16] <Mark_Capella> surkov: id still have to re-attach the new patch right ...? I haven't found a way to edit the patch directly in the bugzilla
  179. # [13:16] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: sure
  180. # [13:17] <@tbsaunde> tht'll always be good enough for build machines, and if someone running linux cares enough they can figure out how to make it deal with other firefoxen running at the same time
  181. # [13:17] <Mark_Capella> ok ... then add the new attachment ... dont bother to flag with review? request
  182. # [13:17] <@askalski> tbsaunde, you're probably right, I am overthinking it. I will run binary with a argument to a prepared page and grab the firefox window that opens that page
  183. # [13:18] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 609279 on bug 734982.
  184. # [13:18] <Mark_Capella> whoever checks it in figures out which attachment to use
  185. # [13:18] <@tbsaunde> askalski: sounds good
  186. # [13:18] <Mark_Capella> (in this case you, so you already know)
  187. # [13:19] <@askalski> tbsaunde, another question
  188. # [13:19] <@askalski> tbsaunde, it's dumb, but I couldn't find any way to interact with firefox window via mozbase
  189. # [13:19] <@tbsaunde> askalski: in fact you could make the prepared page be something like /tmp/aasdasfewfwsdas.html and then grab the first firefox that has that as the name of one of its windows
  190. # [13:20] <@tbsaunde> askalski: ok, well, I don't really know anything about mozbase, but go on
  191. # [13:20] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I can grab stuff via pyatspi (like buttons) and just "click" them via pyatspi, right?
  192. # [13:21] <@tbsaunde> askalski: yes, hrough actions on the accessible
  193. # [13:22] <@askalski> tbsaunde, great, thanks
  194. # [13:22] <@tbsaunde> np
  195. # [13:47] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739179 filed by markcapella@twcny.rr.com.
  196. # [13:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739179 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide test for strong table landmark "application" in test_aria_roles.html
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  202. # [14:16] <@MarcoZ> Geez, crappy connection today.
  203. # [14:18] <@askalski> tbsaunde, is it normal, that I found a lot of unrecent a11y nodes in my desktop tree?
  204. # [14:18] <@askalski> tbsaunde, like nodes from a website I haven't open for a long time now?
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  211. # [14:35] <@tbsaunde> askalski: off hnd that seems bad
  212. # [14:36] <@askalski> tbsaunde, what do you mean?
  213. # [14:37] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739190 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  214. # [14:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739190 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, change AppendTarget(nsIContent* aContent) to take nsDocAccessible* argument
  215. # [14:38] <@tbsaunde> askalski: I mean I'd think that should normally happen
  216. # [14:38] <@tbsaunde> err, ;shouldn't normally happen
  217. # [14:45] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739191 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  218. # [14:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739191 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, get rid nsAccUtils::GetDocAccessibleFor(const nsIPresShell* aPresShell)
  219. # [14:49] <@askalski> tbsaunde, yeah, I thought so too
  220. # [14:51] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739193 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  221. # [14:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739193 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, nsTextEquivUtils::AppendTextEquivFromContent shouldn't use GetAccService()->GetAccessible
  222. # [14:51] <@tbsaunde> askalski: I have no idea why though, you'd have to debug and find out who keeps holding refs somewho
  223. # [14:52] <@tbsaunde> *somehow
  224. # [14:52] <@askalski> tbsaunde, yeah. the funny thing is that these pages were not loaded for couple restarts now
  225. # [14:52] <@askalski> tbsaunde, that's super weird
  226. # [14:54] <@tbsaunde> askalski: oh, so you can see them in pyatspi tree but not in domi one?
  227. # [14:56] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I have seen them in Accerciser, which uses pyatspi, and nowhere on the desktop!
  228. # [14:57] <@tbsaunde> askalski: well, if you can't see them with domi I'd guess its somesort of pyatspi issue
  229. # [14:57] <@tbsaunde> so you might want to poke mgorse about it in #a11y on irc.gimp.org
  230. # [14:58] <@askalski> tbsaunde, cannot reproduce :(
  231. # [14:58] <@askalski> tbsaunde, and 2) I need to work on something else today
  232. # [14:58] <@tbsaunde> askalski: sure
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  235. # [15:12] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739198 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  236. # [15:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739198 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, stop GetAccService()->GetAccessible usage in AccEvent::GetAccessibleForNode
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  245. # [15:35] <davidb_> hi all!
  246. # [15:35] * davidb_ is now known as davidb
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  250. # [15:37] <@davidb> let's try this again
  251. # [15:41] <@davidb> askalski: did you get the info you needed?
  252. # [15:41] <@davidb> re platform testing
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  257. # [16:02] <@askalski> davidb, yes I did
  258. # [16:02] <@davidb> good to hear
  259. # [16:02] <@askalski> davidb, generally it was a very fruitful weekend
  260. # [16:02] <@davidb> great to hear :)
  261. # [16:02] <@askalski> davidb, I used Accerciser, and finally got the thing visualised
  262. # [16:02] <@davidb> in your head you mean?
  263. # [16:03] <@askalski> davidb, entire accessibility tree. I got into some documentation of Accessible (linux) interface
  264. # [16:03] <@davidb> ok
  265. # [16:03] <@askalski> davidb, learned a lot of stuff, understood huge parts of specleniu
  266. # [16:03] <@davidb> groovy
  267. # [16:04] <@askalski> davidb, ok. the meeting is in 5 hours, right?
  268. # [16:04] * @davidb checks
  269. # [16:04] <@askalski> davidb, then I need to get my workout done soon, so I will go now
  270. # [16:04] <@davidb> yes in 5 hours
  271. # [16:04] <@askalski> and be back in 2-3h
  272. # [16:04] <@davidb> see ya later
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  285. # [16:31] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
  286. # [16:31] <@davidb> hi!
  287. # [16:32] <@davidb> MarcoZ: how is Hexe?
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  289. # [16:41] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
  290. # [16:42] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Getting better. The wound is healing well.
  291. # [16:43] <@hub> what happened?
  292. # [16:46] * Quits: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-77DA422D.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Ping timeout)
  293. # [16:50] <@MarcoZ> hub: She tore off part of her left-mot nail from her left paw.
  294. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> s/mot/most/
  295. # [16:51] * Joins: aaronlev (aaronlev@BCFC8969.9EBA4B5B.A641CD9D.IP)
  296. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> Like tearing a fingernail.
  297. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> And the skin below that is very soft and vulnerable, so she needs to wear protective gear around it so the paw doesn't get infected by dirt.
  298. # [16:52] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-FD55C096.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  299. # [16:53] <@tbsaunde> surkov: is there anything left to be reviewed on bug 718627? it seems like you got to all of it
  300. # [16:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718627 nor, P1, ---, hub, ASSI, [Mac] Navigating by character, or interacting with, the text in the awesome bar does not speak the c
  301. # [16:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think I'd like you to take a look, probably at next iteration
  302. # [16:57] <@hub> MarcoZ: ouch
  303. # [16:58] <@hub> surkov, tbsaunde: I won't be able to touch it before Wednesday anyway
  304. # [16:58] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, sounds good
  305. # [16:58] <@tbsaunde> hub: ok
  306. # [16:59] <@hub> I'm in PTO until Wednesday
  307. # [16:59] <@tbsaunde> hub: ok, enjoy it :)
  308. # [16:59] <@surkov> ok
  309. # [17:00] <@tbsaunde> surkov: it looks like we could optimize AccEvent::GetDocAccessible() in the case of there being an mAccessible
  310. # [17:00] <@tbsaunde> should be a good first bug and probably worth to do
  311. # [17:01] <@surkov> that's right
  312. # [17:03] <@MarcoZ> Hub: Enjoy your PTO! :)
  313. # [17:04] * @davidb waves
  314. # [17:04] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 734982 from --- to mozilla14.
  315. # [17:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734982 nor, --, mozilla14, markcapella, ASSI, Map ARIA role "form".
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  321. # [17:25] * @MarcoZ waves back.
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  323. # [17:34] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I wonder why Dennis is barfing on the text inputs
  324. # [17:51] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739253 filed by trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  325. # [17:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739253 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, optimize AccEvent::GetDocAccessible
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  337. # [18:57] <@davidb> eeejay: hi
  338. # [18:57] <eeejay> davidb, hey
  339. # [18:58] <@davidb> eeejay: you'll be on the call with clint right?
  340. # [18:58] <eeejay> davidb, it is at 12 PDT?
  341. # [18:58] <@davidb> yeah
  342. # [18:59] <@davidb> in 2 hours 10 minutes
  343. # [18:59] <eeejay> yeap. i'll be there
  344. # [18:59] <@davidb> groovy
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  346. # [19:23] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I have no clue. Perhaps he's running a checker over the site and notices that thre are hardly any labels.
  347. # [19:23] <@davidb> although he did report NVDA and FF versions
  348. # [19:33] <@MarcoZ> Yeah. It *is* true that the stuff that's in the value attribute is not spoken as the label, but as the contents of the field.
  349. # [19:33] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  350. # [19:33] <@MarcoZ> So one has to wait for "edit" to pass before hearing "first name" in NVDA.
  351. # [19:33] <@MarcoZ> And I agree, labels *are* the most robust way to label fields. :)
  352. # [19:34] <@MarcoZ> Or they should use the placeholder attribute.
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  355. # [19:58] <@MarcoZ> Good night!
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  366. # [20:30] <@askalski> hi I am back :)
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  369. # [20:35] <@firebot> mbrubeck@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 736059 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  370. # [20:35] <@firebot> mbrubeck@mozilla.com set the Resolution field on bug 736059 to FIXED.
  371. # [20:35] <@firebot> mbrubeck@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 736059 from --- to mozilla14.
  372. # [20:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736059 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, do some cleanups of nsAccessible::GetAttributesInternal
  373. # [20:35] <@davidb> askalski: good. Note I'm not going to drive this meeting but am hopeful we can derive next steps.
  374. # [20:36] <@askalski> davidb, ok. I got 5 questions listed
  375. # [20:36] <@davidb> heh good
  376. # [20:36] <@askalski> davidb, technical mostly
  377. # [20:36] <@davidb> ok
  378. # [20:36] <@askalski> davidb, other than "what should I test" which I forward to everyone within the team :)
  379. # [20:36] <@davidb> i'll be sitting with Clint and others here in Toronto
  380. # [20:37] <@askalski> ok, so I am the only remote?
  381. # [20:37] <@davidb> eitan
  382. # [20:37] <@davidb> etc
  383. # [20:37] <@askalski> davidb, ok
  384. # [20:37] <@davidb> askalski: vidyo is working for you right?
  385. # [20:37] <@askalski> davidb, btw, Eitans code is strongly hacked, but after hanging on various IRC it turned out a lot of that is necessary :(
  386. # [20:37] <@askalski> davidb, good you asked. I will charge tablet now
  387. # [20:38] <@davidb> please do, and have headset ready
  388. # [20:38] <@davidb> if you want to do a trial i can
  389. # [20:39] <@askalski> davidb, we can do now, good idea
  390. # [20:39] <@davidb> ok
  391. # [20:40] <@davidb> askalski: i'm in my room
  392. # [20:40] <@askalski> joining soon
  393. # [20:42] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-9542A19B.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  394. # [20:43] <@askalski> davidb, yep. the battery was dead
  395. # [20:43] <@davidb> yikes
  396. # [20:43] <@davidb> ok
  397. # [20:43] <@askalski> I will use the cable for the conference
  398. # [20:44] <@askalski> but it will take me a moment to join
  399. # [20:44] <@davidb> cable?
  400. # [20:44] <@askalski> is our headset (the USB one) compatible with android?
  401. # [20:44] <@askalski> cable = power supply
  402. # [20:44] <@davidb> ok
  403. # [20:45] <@davidb> askalski: dunno about headset
  404. # [20:45] <@davidb> you might need to go with just earphones
  405. # [20:45] <@askalski> that's ok
  406. # [20:46] <@askalski> davidb, btw, does firefox support UIA?
  407. # [20:46] <@davidb> askalski: not directly no. not yet.
  408. # [20:46] <@davidb> there is a proxy on systems that support com
  409. # [20:46] <@askalski> davidb, but we plan it eventually, right?
  410. # [20:47] <@davidb> askalski: we are in discussions right now - i am talking to a lead at MS tomorrow
  411. # [20:47] <@askalski> davidb, I was looking for backends for a11y testing and I stumbled on a subject again
  412. # [20:47] <@davidb> my opinion is yes.
  413. # [20:47] <@davidb> yep
  414. # [20:47] <@askalski> davidb, right. you want to make sure that the standard will remain open?
  415. # [20:47] <@askalski> (become?)
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  417. # [20:48] <@davidb> i have concerns around that yes
  418. # [20:48] <@davidb> but really, it is windows, i can't expect too much
  419. # [20:49] <@tbsaunde> davidb: why? how is it different from msaa?
  420. # [20:49] <@askalski> davidb, but users will eventually switch to it sooner or later. that's the power of Microsoft :)
  421. # [20:49] <@askalski> standard enforcement
  422. # [20:50] <@davidb> tbsaunde: the design is different, and also it allows a non-COM infrastructure
  423. # [20:50] <@davidb> tbsaunde: we probably won't see COM on Windows 8 mobile arm.
  424. # [20:50] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oh, hmm, interesting
  425. # [20:50] <@tbsaunde> ok
  426. # [20:50] <@davidb> Also Narrator support for the MSAA proxy is tanking
  427. # [20:50] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  428. # [20:51] <@tbsaunde> davidb: hm?
  429. # [20:51] <@davidb> Narrator on Windows 8 is UIA only and only tested with UIA.
  430. # [20:52] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-9542A19B.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  431. # [20:52] <@davidb> and if Windows is jealous of OSX … Narrator will continue to see improvements
  432. # [20:52] <@davidb> I need to talk to Jamie and Mick
  433. # [20:52] <@davidb> sent them email
  434. # [20:53] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok, but narator only using uia is fine if the proxy between msaa and uia works well enough or we could write a ia2 uia proxy
  435. # [20:54] <@tbsaunde> although at one point surkov thought we might want to do uia for perf reasons
  436. # [20:54] <@davidb> yep but we still have to deal with non-COM systems
  437. # [20:54] <@davidb> there are some aspects of UIA that help perf
  438. # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> sure, but its some api
  439. # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> where the api presumably has a pretty liberal license so people can use it from their proprietary apps
  440. # [21:03] * @davidb adds some agenda items https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Meetings/2012-03-28
  441. # [21:03] * @davidb hunts clint and mdas
  442. # [21:03] <@tbsaunde> davidb: want me to call in?
  443. # [21:05] <@davidb> tbsaunde: sure
  444. # [21:05] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you talking about the mozbase call?
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  446. # [21:06] <eeejay> anyone in the mozbase call yet?
  447. # [21:06] <@davidb> eeejay: we're here
  448. # [21:06] <@davidb> c'mon in
  449. # [21:07] * Joins: ctalbert (ctalbert@moz-B77DEAEB.mozilla.org)
  450. # [21:07] <@tbsaunde> davidb: which video room? and yes
  451. # [21:07] <eeejay> clint's room?
  452. # [21:07] <ctalbert> eeejay: you can join my vidyo room now
  453. # [21:07] <ctalbert> we have it working
  454. # [21:07] <@davidb> 9304
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  458. # [21:09] <ctalbert> Hello, we can take notes up here: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/a11y-mozbase
  459. # [21:10] <@davidb> askalski, eeejay ^
  460. # [21:16] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Ping timeout)
  461. # [21:19] <@davidb> askalski: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/
  462. # [21:21] <@davidb> eeejay: can you mute
  463. # [21:21] <eeejay> done
  464. # [21:22] <@davidb> thanks - just in case that's the echo
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  468. # [21:30] <eeejay> marrionete
  469. # [21:30] <mdas> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Marionette
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  471. # [21:31] <@davidb> eeejay: you look like you want to speak?
  472. # [21:32] <eeejay> a bit
  473. # [21:32] <@davidb> heh
  474. # [21:34] <@davidb> resolution: all automation in mozbase
  475. # [21:35] <@davidb> resolution: for driving UI use marionette
  476. # [21:35] <eeejay> ok, i didn't understand the scope of mozbase..
  477. # [21:36] <eeejay> i thought it did automation
  478. # [21:36] <@davidb> me too
  479. # [21:36] <eeejay> so we need to use marionette...
  480. # [21:36] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  481. # [21:37] <wlach> eeejay: you can think of mozbase as a set of tools for driving automation that's outside the browser
  482. # [21:37] <wlach> not sure if that makes any sense
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  485. # [21:37] <eeejay> and.. it sounds like marionette will support selenium driver API, so migrating speclenium might not be that hard
  486. # [21:37] <eeejay> wlach, sure
  487. # [21:38] <mdas> eeejay: yeah we're implementing the webdriver API and it was written so we can run selenium commands without changes required
  488. # [21:39] <eeejay> yeah... just grab them and make them local
  489. # [21:39] <eeejay> re: remote tests ^
  490. # [21:42] <@davidb> ok
  491. # [21:44] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you on the call?
  492. # [21:50] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, but my volume was low and andriod aparently doesn't let you change that while on a call... so I only heard half what you said
  493. # [21:51] <@davidb> ok
  494. # [21:52] <@davidb> askalski: clear as mud?
  495. # [21:52] <@davidb> kidding
  496. # [21:52] <@davidb> i think we have a plan
  497. # [21:53] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok, I hope its small and reasonable :)
  498. # [21:53] <@davidb> i think so
  499. # [21:54] <@tbsaunde> so, I actually ended up icking around an idea I've kicked around before of jsut hacking the tests we want into libxul
  500. # [21:55] <@davidb> tbsaunde: how would that work?
  501. # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> (during the call for some reason)
  502. # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> davidb: when we start a11y we install event handlers for platform a11y events
  503. # [21:56] <@tbsaunde> then, js does some stuff and our event handlers track they've been called and crawl around the tree when invoked
  504. # [21:56] <@davidb> hum
  505. # [21:56] <@tbsaunde> done
  506. # [21:57] <@tbsaunde> knid of hacks, but I'd think would work with fiarly little effort
  507. # [21:57] <@davidb> i'm unsure how much extra code this would add
  508. # [21:57] <@tbsaunde> probably not much other than the tests
  509. # [21:58] <@tbsaunde> but you say eeejay askalski nd the ateam people have a plan that they're probably better at implementing than they would be at those hacks
  510. # [21:58] <@davidb> yep
  511. # [21:59] * @tbsaunde shrugs
  512. # [21:59] * @tbsaunde is really afraid of over engineering this though
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  517. # [22:06] <@davidb> yeah
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  519. # [22:07] <@davidb> eeejay: what do you think about keeping speclenium the way it is, just improving it here and there. and for mozbase ultimately just taking what we need and building something smaller for testing platform regressions?
  520. # [22:07] <@davidb> tbsaunde, askalski ^
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  522. # [22:09] <eeejay> davidb, askalski's call. but i think it would be nice to keep it all under a common codebase. and not abandon the multi-browser case
  523. # [22:09] <@davidb> eeejay: would we abandon it?
  524. # [22:09] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'm not sure I follow
  525. # [22:09] * @davidb wants to understand clearly
  526. # [22:10] <eeejay> davidb, i mean, support mozbase/marionette, but also keep support for selenium for other browsers
  527. # [22:10] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: by multi browser case you mean multiple browsers on the same machine at the same time? I'd call that nice to have but I don't see why we can't add it later
  528. # [22:10] <eeejay> ie. extend
  529. # [22:10] <eeejay> tbsaunde, i mean the ability to run chrome
  530. # [22:10] <@davidb> or chromium
  531. # [22:11] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: oic
  532. # [22:11] <eeejay> tbsaunde, when i wrote speclenium the vision was an a11y acid test
  533. # [22:11] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: sure
  534. # [22:11] <@davidb> eeejay: that's what i think speclenium should be
  535. # [22:11] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: but I don't want to solve that problem here, if it helps solve our problem great, if not and its easier to to just write our wn thing for firefox thats absolutely fine too
  536. # [22:11] <@davidb> i'm just want to be sure we don't try to fit a square peg in a round hole
  537. # [22:12] <@tbsaunde> yeah
  538. # [22:12] <@tbsaunde> the a11y browser acid test is a good idea and I think it would be great if someone does it
  539. # [22:13] <@davidb> actually i think it is more of a compat test than pure acid test
  540. # [22:13] <@tbsaunde> but if a gecko specific thing solves our problem with less effort then I think we should do that instead of making the a11y acid test solve our problem
  541. # [22:13] <@davidb> but i dunno the full power of speclenium
  542. # [22:13] <eeejay> tbsaunde, yeah. askalski's call. but i think 80% of speclenium is reusable in this project. so instead of just reusing bits, it would be good to extend it
  543. # [22:13] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: sure
  544. # [22:14] <@davidb> eeejay: 80% sounds enticing, what is that 80%?
  545. # [22:14] <@davidb> i mean if you take away the selenium part
  546. # [22:15] <@tbsaunde> I don't know much of anything about speclenium, so up to askalski
  547. # [22:16] <@davidb> eeejay: also, you should eat :)
  548. # [22:16] <@askalski> eeejay, honestly I would prefer to do two things at the same time: get speclenium working again and create a testing app (that might use some portions of speclenium code)
  549. # [22:17] <eeejay> davidb, testing for accessible objects and events across machine boundaries with python
  550. # [22:17] <@askalski> eeejay, davidb, do we need "across machine"?
  551. # [22:18] <eeejay> askalski, it sounds like mozbase has "slaves", etc. so i think so
  552. # [22:18] <@askalski> eeejay, davidb, I believed that test slaves are single machine env anyway
  553. # [22:18] <@askalski> cut off from network
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  555. # [22:18] <@tbsaunde> askalski: if its anything like our other test setups no
  556. # [22:19] <@askalski> eeejay, I agree that tree format and diffing and stuff are very attractive
  557. # [22:19] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: the usually way we use slaves is less fien grined than that, slaves run a whole test suite and report a log and failed or passed
  558. # [22:19] <@askalski> eeejay, though - to my reckon - test slaves (target machines) are 1) limited in setup 2) testing only FF in cut-off environment
  559. # [22:20] <eeejay> tbsaunde, gotcha
  560. # [22:20] <@askalski> eeejay, deploying entire speclenium there is 1) complex 2) would not give us much advantage
  561. # [22:20] <@tbsaunde> I can see how diffing trees is useful for the compat testing, but it doesn't seem that useful for our purpose
  562. # [22:20] <@askalski> tbsaunde, agree
  563. # [22:21] <@askalski> my suggestion would be to 1) maintain speclenium 2) build something else for slaves
  564. # [22:21] <@askalski> reusing code wherever possible
  565. # [22:21] <@askalski> and sensible
  566. # [22:21] <@davidb> I will say that the simpler the better for stuff running in our test automation. Especially if we want to enlist any non-a11y team support down the road.
  567. # [22:21] <eeejay> tbsaunde, it is useful in regression testing too. that is how orca does most of its tests
  568. # [22:22] <@davidb> (I mean simpler as in not too large codebase)
  569. # [22:22] <@askalski> eeejay, what you think about my idea?
  570. # [22:22] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: sure, being able to diff to some degree is useful, but one side can be hard coded
  571. # [22:22] <eeejay> askalski, go with what seems right, and correct the course as you proceed :)
  572. # [22:22] <@askalski> eeejay, ok
  573. # [22:23] <@askalski> I believe we have a consensus now :)
  574. # [22:23] <@davidb> Now that we've bullied poor eeejay.
  575. # [22:23] * @davidb hands eeejay some ointment
  576. # [22:23] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I mean something similar to our mochitests for trees we have a jsobject that is the tree we want to find and we compare that against what we find
  577. # [22:23] <eeejay> oh, and about pyia. it is just small layer that makes msaa work like at-spi via pyatspi
  578. # [22:24] <@davidb> clever
  579. # [22:24] <eeejay> davidb, am i supposed to eat it?
  580. # [22:24] * @tbsaunde remains terrified by the idea of touching COM from python
  581. # [22:24] <@askalski> eeejay, yes, I read it, it's nice. I need to learn some stuff about COM
  582. # [22:24] <eeejay> askalski, so pyatspi is not sacred either, just if you want to extend the tests to at-spi one day, it will make it easier
  583. # [22:24] * eeejay knows nothing about COM
  584. # [22:24] <@askalski> eeejay, also, I there is a file "constants.py" - I could try to generate it from .idl
  585. # [22:25] <eeejay> tbsaunde, it is called NVDA!
  586. # [22:25] <@davidb> eeejay: i rub it on my wounds and bruises.
  587. # [22:25] <eeejay> askalski, they haven't changed in 15 years.
  588. # [22:26] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I'm not saying it doesn't work
  589. # [22:26] <@davidb> lol
  590. # [22:26] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  591. # [22:27] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: we have xpcom/ds/nsIByteBuffer.h =P
  592. # [22:27] <@askalski> eeejay, ok, I just address the comment I found in the beginning of the file
  593. # [22:27] <eeejay> oh :)
  594. # [22:27] * @tbsaunde is saddened by the thought of that file
  595. # [22:27] <@askalski> anyway, the way you like it :) I can leave it as it is
  596. # [22:27] <eeejay> it is really weird looking at stuff i wrote 4 years ago
  597. # [22:28] <eeejay> to TODOs suddenly look so vain
  598. # [22:28] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: yeah, tht can be weird
  599. # [22:28] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: atleast you don't have 10 year old todos ;)
  600. # [22:29] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-9542A19B.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  601. # [22:29] <eeejay> tbsaunde, i do. but it is abandonware. i thought speclenium was too
  602. # [22:29] * Joins: Mark_Capella (chatzilla@moz-EF9E3E68.twcny.res.rr.com)
  603. # [22:29] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: oh, ok
  604. # [22:29] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@93B4174C.6E78B65D.CDBA6951.IP)
  605. # [22:36] <@askalski> there is a plague of demotivotional posters in Poland about Firefox. all positive about the browser
  606. # [22:37] <@askalski> want some
  607. # [22:37] <@askalski> ?
  608. # [22:37] <@davidb> i'm not sure haha
  609. # [22:37] <@davidb> fine
  610. # [22:37] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  611. # [22:38] <@askalski> http://demotywatory.pl/3740761/Firefox this is "Firefox, and it's problems with windows"
  612. # [22:38] <@davidb> heheh
  613. # [22:39] * Quits: Mark_Capella (chatzilla@moz-EF9E3E68.twcny.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  614. # [22:39] <@davidb> i'm not sure what to think of a fox licking a window
  615. # [22:39] <@askalski> davidb, it tries to get in
  616. # [22:39] <@askalski> or something
  617. # [22:39] <@davidb> yeah
  618. # [22:39] <@askalski> http://demotywatory.pl/3743727/Slyszelismy-ze-zainstalowales-najnowszego-IE and this is "we heard you turned down Firefox for new IE"
  619. # [22:40] <@davidb> heheh
  620. # [22:40] <@davidb> ok i gotta step offline
  621. # [22:40] <@davidb> will be back in 4 hours
  622. # [22:40] <@askalski> me too
  623. # [22:40] <@davidb> ciao
  624. # [22:40] <@askalski> me in 10 :D
  625. # [22:40] <@askalski> bye
  626. # [22:40] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
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  631. # [22:48] <@tbsaunde> ok, I'm off to eat too
  632. # [22:48] * tbsaunde is now known as tbsaunde|afk
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  637. # [23:01] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  638. # [23:02] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-beta for attachment 605820 on bug 735666.
  639. # [23:02] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-aurora for attachment 605820 on bug 735666.
  640. # [23:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735666 cri, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, crash [@ nsIDocument::GetContainer() ]
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  642. # [23:25] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
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  646. # Session Close: Tue Mar 27 00:00:00 2012

The end :)