/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-03-27 / end
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- # Session Start: Tue Mar 27 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [01:11] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739455 filed by mbrubeck@mozilla.com.
- # [01:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739455 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/tree/test_tabbrowser
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- # [02:24] <@firebot> bzbarsky@mit.edu granted review for attachment 608601 on bug 656225.
- # [02:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656225 maj, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, [A11Y]New profile item in firefox4.0 user profile dialog is not accessible.
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- # [03:58] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739498 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
- # [03:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739498 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add Javascript layer for mobile accessibility
- # [04:05] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 609578 on bug 739498.
- # [04:05] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested feedback from l10n@mozilla.com for attachment 609578 on bug 739498.
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- # [05:10] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 736059.
- # [05:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736059 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, do some cleanups of nsAccessible::GetAttributesInternal
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- # [05:30] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 719852 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
- # [05:30] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 719852 to DUPLICATE of bug 614310.
- # [05:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719852 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, accessibility API mapping for section element
- # [05:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614310 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Map <section> to pane (like role="region")
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- # [06:40] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from trev.saunders@gma il.com for attachment 609607 on bug 737724.
- # [06:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, make IsDefunct() inline
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- # [07:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: thoughts on handling the case of tree accessibles becoming defunct when the tree view is changed to be null?
- # [07:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: tree view change is after all is children removal but currently we do a trick and fire reorder event making AT to thing XUL tree accessible is recreated. So due to perf reason I think we can do that
- # [07:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: do that == ?
- # [07:12] <@surkov> tbsaunde: recreate XUL tree accessible
- # [07:12] <@tbsaunde> surkov: oh, ok, that seems sort of nice instead of the sort of crazy thing we do now
- # [07:12] <@surkov> right
- # [07:13] <@tbsaunde> but I'm not sure it fits in the scope of 737724
- # [07:13] <@surkov> but still I'm not completely sure :)
- # [07:13] <@surkov> it should be done separately
- # [07:13] <@surkov> IA2 provides set of events for tables
- # [07:14] <@surkov> like model changed
- # [07:14] <@surkov> other option to fix is never keep mTreeView
- # [07:14] <@tbsaunde> yeah, I forget what atk has and never looked at mac
- # [07:14] <@surkov> and don't say the accessible is defunct
- # [07:14] <@surkov> atk iirc has the same
- # [07:14] <@tbsaunde> getting mTreeView sounds like more of a perf issue
- # [07:16] <@surkov> mac has NSAccessibilityRowCountChangedNotification
- # [07:16] <@tbsaunde> if we chane the tree view that mmeans we need to reuild the whole subtree right? so creting an extra object and destroying one doesn't seem like a big deal relatively
- # [07:17] <@surkov> not one but several: keep in mind treecolumns
- # [07:18] <@surkov> but does it mean we shouldn't create an accessible for XUL tree when there's no tree view?
- # [07:18] <@surkov> sounds like answer no, i.e. we should create
- # [07:18] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hm, can we keep the tree columns across the view changing?
- # [07:19] <@surkov> sure
- # [07:19] <@surkov> those are unrelated in XUL tree implementation
- # [07:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, that seems kind of funny to me but k
- # [07:19] <@surkov> tree columns are DOM elements, tree view is js object
- # [07:20] <@tbsaunde> well, currently we create one and it stays defunct which is kind of weird
- # [07:20] <@tbsaunde> so I'd want to look some but I tend towards trees without views shouldn't have accessibles created
- # [07:22] <@surkov> tbsaunde: 1) absolutely 2) but sighted user still sees a tree, columns, just no rows
- # [07:22] <@surkov> I'd suggest to remove mTreeView from nsXULTreeAccessible
- # [07:22] <@tbsaunde> ok
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- # [07:22] <@tbsaunde> I'm sort of worried bout the perf of that, but I guess we can see
- # [07:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: getting tree view over and over?
- # [07:23] <@tbsaunde> yeah, it adds at least one virtual method to each time you get some info about an accessible tree
- # [07:24] <@tbsaunde> and I don't know how much data structure stuffs
- # [07:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: well, we fix into XUL tree implementation to provide a nice shortcut
- # [07:25] <@surkov> but anyway we can keep mTreeView, just we need to check whether it's not null
- # [07:26] <@surkov> but I don't like we keep a strong ref to tree view, but we can't do raw ptr until we have sync notification from xul tree about tree view change
- # [07:26] <@surkov> having strong ref is extra garbage collector work
- # [07:27] <@surkov> but I think we can do sync notifications from XUL tree
- # [07:27] <@surkov> so which way do you prefer?
- # [07:27] <@surkov> 1) keeping nsITreeView* mTreeView and having sync notifications
- # [07:27] <@surkov> 2) remove mTreeView at all
- # [07:29] * @tbsaunde thinking
- # [07:30] <@tbsaunde> why is having strong ref to tree view any worse than sayi having strong ref to content etc?
- # [07:31] <@tbsaunde> surkov: by get rid mTreeView you mean get the view each time we need it?
- # [07:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it should be equally bad, in the past we had a leak related with tree view strong ref so that's probably why I talk about this
- # [07:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that's right
- # [07:32] <@tbsaunde> ok
- # [07:32] <@surkov> basically I'm thinking to keep raw pointer to frame instead of strong pointer to content
- # [07:32] <@tbsaunde> tht would be an interestin and huge change
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- # [07:33] <@tbsaunde> that we should probably really think about before doing
- # [07:34] <@tbsaunde> I seem to remember perf issues with trees? so integrating more tightly may be a good idea instead of getting the tree view when we need it
- # [07:50] <@tbsaunde> surkov: one interestin thing about keeping a raw pointer to tree views would be that I think they're often implemented in js, which looks like it might make integrating more interesting
- # [07:51] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'm sure they keep strong ref to tree view somewhere in XUL tree c++ implementation
- # [07:52] <@surkov> so if things are interesting then not on our side :)
- # [07:52] <@tbsaunde> so, I'm not really sure integrating is probably a good idea if we can make it work, but would take some investigation and I'm not sure any one really has the time for that so in the short term it might be better to just check we actually have a tree view before using or not keep one
- # [07:52] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I'm pretty sure they do
- # [07:52] <@surkov> tbsaunde: about frame changes, yeah, that's a serious thing and we should be careful about it
- # [07:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: Mark might do that tree view thing I think
- # [07:53] <@surkov> it shouldn't be complicated but should be interesting
- # [07:54] <@surkov> good thing about sync notifications and raw ptr treeview is we always provide up to dated information
- # [07:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, it'll definitely be interesting, have you talked to him about it? I'm a little suprised he'd do it :)
- # [07:55] <@surkov> basically that's what we do on frames removal
- # [07:55] <@tbsaunde> yeah
- # [07:55] <@surkov> no, I didn't. Mark_Capella are you here?
- # [07:55] <Mark_Capella> over here
- # [07:56] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: how do you feel to fix some interesting bug? :) related with your IsDefunct work
- # [07:56] <Mark_Capella> yah ... im watching the above - you guys trying to kill me :)
- # [07:56] <@surkov> nah, it's a long talk but things should be much simpler :)
- # [07:57] <Mark_Capella> k - kill away! Can we finish IsDefunct first? Or does all go together?
- # [07:57] <@surkov> basically we need to replace TreeViewChanged DOM event processing on direct call into accessibility
- # [07:58] <Mark_Capella> go on ...
- # [07:58] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: yes, we can, for that you should add null checks into every nsXULTreeAccessbile method that deals with mTreeView
- # [07:58] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: I'll file a bug for trees and cc you.
- # [07:59] <@surkov> but that null check approach is not good for long term because somebody might forget to add null check one day
- # [07:59] <Mark_Capella> ok! file the bug ... ill take it... im curerntly playing with bug614310 ... might take that too... and we finish IsDefunct first with what you said about null checks above
- # [07:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614310 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Map <section> to pane (like role="region")
- # [08:01] <Mark_Capella> . o O ( that's my understanding and I'm sticking to it :P )
- # [08:04] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(trev.saunders@gma il.com) for attachment 609607 on bug 737724.
- # [08:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, make IsDefunct() inline
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- # [08:09] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739524 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [08:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739524 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, replace TreeViewChanged DOM event on direct call from XUL tree
- # [08:09] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: thank you!
- # [08:10] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: btw, bug 739524 ^
- # [08:10] <Mark_Capella> heh ... i've worked a lot of little bugs around the tree ... a11y is fun
- # [08:13] <@surkov> cool :)
- # [08:43] * tbsaunde|shower is now known as tbsaunde
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- # [08:50] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 739524 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [08:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739524 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, replace TreeViewChanged DOM event on direct call from XUL tree
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- # [09:21] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox13 to fixed on bug 735666.
- # [09:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735666 cri, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, crash [@ nsIDocument::GetContainer() ]
- # [09:21] <@surkov> MarcoZ: thank you ^
- # [09:22] <@MarcoZ> surkov: YW! Also preparing to land it on beta in the next couple of minutes (need to clone beta first).
- # [09:22] <@surkov> great!
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- # [09:30] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: shouldn't you push ^ to m-b too?
- # [09:33] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Need to clone beta first.
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- # [09:33] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Am almost done with it and will land it there ASAP.
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- # [09:36] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: oic
- # [09:37] * @tbsaunde does just uses his many headed tree for everything ;)
- # [09:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 656225 from --- to mozilla14.
- # [09:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 656225.
- # [09:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656225 maj, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, ASSI, [A11Y]New profile item in firefox4.0 user profile dialog is not accessible.
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- # [09:49] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Should this also help bug 673860?
- # [09:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=673860 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Thunderbird] Adding more than one addressee in message composition, we don't create accessibles for
- # [09:49] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I hope, please try it out when the patch gets into nightly
- # [09:49] <@MarcoZ> surkov: tbsaunde: mozilla-beta is currently closed because of some Talos malfunction. Am waiting for reopen.
- # [09:49] <@surkov> ok
- # [09:50] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Will do!
- # [09:50] <@surkov> thank you!
- # [09:51] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, how do I open this filters stuff in thunderbird for bug 737101?
- # [09:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737101 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Broken accessible hierarchy in Thunderbird Message Filters dialog
- # [09:51] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: ^ if you know
- # [09:52] <@surkov> somewhere from menu, I don't recall
- # [09:52] <@tbsaunde> ok
- # [09:52] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Tools menu, Message filters... item.
- # [09:55] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: hm, I the tools menu doesn't seem to have that option ...
- # [09:55] * @tbsaunde checks to see if he has any accounts configured
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- # [10:02] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Hm, maybe the menu structure on Windows is different. Look in the edit menu perhaps.
- # [10:04] <Mark_Capella> WIN7 ... Thunderbird ... tools ... drop down 5th item message filters
- # [10:06] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: yeah, I think I found it
- # [10:23] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Do we know yet why chromeHarness.js breaks test_nsIAccessibleDocument.html? Bug 736886.
- # [10:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736886 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, test_nsIAccessibleDocument.html silently dies
- # [10:24] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I don't
- # [10:37] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 609654 on bug 614310.
- # [10:37] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 614310 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [10:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614310 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map <section> to pane (like role="region")
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- # [10:50] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 609654 on bug 614310.
- # [10:50] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 609654 on bug 614310.
- # [10:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614310 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map <section> to pane (like role="region")
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- # [11:35] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 609578 on bug 739498.
- # [11:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739498 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add Javascript layer for mobile accessibility
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- # [11:57] <@askalski> morning
- # [11:58] <@tbsaunde> morning
- # [11:58] <@surkov> hi
- # [11:59] <@MarcoZ> Hey!
- # [12:02] <@tbsaunde> 01
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- # [12:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: have you thought about what to do wth the pointer to the tree box object in xul trees?
- # [12:43] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I didn't looked
- # [12:44] <@tbsaunde> sure
- # [12:45] <@tbsaunde> it seems pretty crazy we keep pointers to the treebox and tree view in each row and the tree itself
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- # [12:53] <@firebot> l10n@mozilla.com denied feedback for attachment 609578 on bug 739498.
- # [12:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739498 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add Javascript layer for mobile accessibility
- # [12:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it is
- # [12:57] <@tbsaunde> surkov: it seems like table and table cell decom might let us make that a little better if we can get the table quickly
- # [12:58] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yep
- # [13:00] <@tbsaunde> surkov: objections to nsXULTreeGridRowAccessible using nsRefPtrHashTabl<nsPtrHashKey<const void>, nsXULTreeGridCellAccessible> instead of nsAccessibleHashTable for its cache so that we can get rid of the cid on nsXULTreeGridCellAccessible?
- # [13:01] <@surkov> tbsaunde: well, it doesn't sound like we need cid for nsRefPtrHashTable
- # [13:02] <@tbsaunde> surkov: no, but we if we use nsAccessibleHashTable we need to down cast what we get out of it
- # [13:03] <@tbsaunde> I gues we could just static cast instead oof query objectthough
- # [13:04] <@surkov> right but why do we need to downcast, we could keep nsXULTreeGridCellAccessible as we do now?
- # [13:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but we shouldn't do_QeuryInterface for nsXULTreeGridCellAccessible and should do downcasting
- # [13:06] <@tbsaunde> surkov: see nsXULTreeGridRowAccessible::RowInvalidate()
- # [13:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yes, we need to get rid that
- # [13:08] <@tbsaunde> if we get rid that then we don't need to down cast at ll
- # [13:08] <@tbsaunde> how did you want to do that though?
- # [13:08] <@tbsaunde> I was thinking just store the pointers in the hash as the right type and then we never need to downcast
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- # [13:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ah, finally I got you. Yes that makes sense (I though we keep nsXULTreeGridCellAccessible in cache not nsAccessible :) ) File a bug?
- # [13:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure
- # [13:40] <@surkov> thx
- # [13:41] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox12 to fixed on bug 735666.
- # [13:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735666 cri, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, crash [@ nsIDocument::GetContainer() ]
- # [13:42] <@MarcoZ> surkov: All done.
- # [13:42] <@surkov> MarcoZ: thank you
- # [13:42] <@MarcoZ> surkov: yw!
- # [13:44] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739568 filed by trev.saunders@gmail.com.
- # [13:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739568 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, nsXULTreeGridRowAccesible should cache its kids as nsXULTreeGridCellAccessibles not generic accessib
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- # [14:15] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 734982 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [14:15] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 734982 to FIXED.
- # [14:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734982 nor, --, mozilla14, markcapella, RESO FIXED, Map ARIA role "form".
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- # [14:18] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 734982.
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- # [15:04] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I caught myself describing "moz-base based testing suite for a11y" (as opposed to just "speclenium"), I think I should give it a working title
- # [15:04] <@askalski> tbsaunde, what do you think about MATS (MozBase A11y Test Suite/Set)?
- # [15:06] <@tbsaunde> askalski: sure
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- # [15:17] <@askalski> hi davidb
- # [15:17] <@davidb> hi
- # [15:17] <@tbsaunde> mjorning
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- # [15:19] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ping
- # [15:23] <@davidb> tbsaunde, askalski how's it going?
- # [15:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: fine
- # [15:23] * @davidb -> bugmail
- # [15:23] <@askalski> davidb, collecting information for 1:1 today :), got some good news I hope
- # [15:24] <@davidb> you are such a tease :)
- # [15:25] <@askalski> davidb, me?
- # [15:25] <@askalski> what is tease?
- # [15:25] <@askalski> btw, how long etherpad pages remain active?
- # [15:25] <@davidb> askalski: in this context tease means keeping me in suspense
- # [15:25] <@askalski> I would use them as no-setup wiki for writing down use cases etc
- # [15:26] <@davidb> askalski: a long time
- # [15:26] <@davidb> but they are not accessible
- # [15:26] <@davidb> so for team stuff we use the wiki
- # [15:26] <@askalski> davidb, ok. so what, wiki? readme in github?
- # [15:26] <@askalski> davidb, ok
- # [15:26] <@davidb> wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Foo
- # [15:27] <@askalski> davidb, the good news is, that the tests Eitan uses in speclenium are on some liberal license
- # [15:27] <@davidb> ok
- # [15:27] <@askalski> davidb, so I guess there will be no problem to grab them when "offline mode" will become a requirement
- # [15:27] <@davidb> good
- # [15:28] <@askalski> davidb, I got the "work plan" v 0.1 done.
- # [15:28] <@davidb> great
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- # [15:28] <@davidb> keeping it simple i hope?
- # [15:29] <@askalski> I thinks o
- # [15:29] <@askalski> *so
- # [15:30] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from trev.saunders@gma il.com for attachment 609694 on bug 737724.
- # [15:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, make IsDefunct() inline
- # [15:42] <Mark_Capella> davidb: Does that mean you'll review+ on Bug 614310 - Map <section> to pane (like role="region") ?
- # [15:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614310 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map <section> to pane (like role="region")
- # [15:42] <@davidb> Mark_Capella: yep - I'm looking now. We have some overlap in our test heirarchy/taxonomy
- # [15:43] <@davidb> I'm looking to see the best option
- # [15:43] <@davidb> the code looks right
- # [15:43] <@askalski> davidb, 1:1 as usual? can you send me again a thunderbird lightning notification?
- # [15:43] <Mark_Capella> ok ... thanks
- # [15:43] <@davidb> askalski: ok
- # [15:43] <@davidb> askalski: sent (via zimbra)
- # [15:44] <@askalski> davidb, thanks
- # [15:44] <@davidb> np
- # [15:50] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Pong!
- # [15:50] <@MarcoZ> Darn, fell asleep on the couch for an hour.
- # [15:50] <@MarcoZ> (was up very early today)
- # [15:50] <@davidb> MarcoZ: you alright?
- # [15:51] <@davidb> I PMed you some admin stuff
- # [15:53] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes I'm all right. Just got up very early today to help GF with some final stuff for her old appartment, and when i sat down on the couch earlier to read something, I fell asleep. O_O
- # [15:53] <@davidb> Must have been my autobiography
- # [15:54] <@MarcoZ> Haha!
- # [15:54] <@MarcoZ> And besides, i already ingested eeejay's patch from bug 739498 earlier.
- # [15:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739498 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add Javascript layer for mobile accessibility
- # [15:54] <@davidb> oh good! i haven't got to that yet.
- # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> Well, don#t bother reading the patch, surkov already took it apart. LOL
- # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> Unless you want a picture of what's there currently as well as what surkov wants.
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- # [15:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: did that as well, at least partially
- # [15:57] <@davidb> surkov: hi!
- # [15:57] <@surkov> hi, davidb
- # [15:57] <@davidb> surkov: I feel like we need to reorg our tests
- # [15:58] <@surkov> are you about in general or specific things?
- # [15:58] <@davidb> There are two things I'd like: 1. self documenting tests (easily checked against specs), 2. consistency
- # [15:58] <@davidb> general
- # [15:58] <@davidb> for example, we don't have a test_html_roles
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- # [15:58] <@davidb> but even then i'm not sure that's best, sigh
- # [15:59] <@askalski> davidb, can you send me the team meeting lightning invitation as well? I just started to use it. Oh, and is there a method to sync it with mobile (other than via google cal)?
- # [15:59] <@surkov> davidb: html is covered basically by tree folder
- # [15:59] <@davidb> yeah
- # [16:00] <@davidb> true
- # [16:00] <@surkov> davidb: specs sometimes are tricky to check them easily
- # [16:00] <@surkov> in general :)
- # [16:00] <@davidb> so true
- # [16:00] <@surkov> yeah, but we could do something for ARIA
- # [16:00] <@surkov> like role and set of attributes applied to it
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- # [16:01] <@surkov> automatization similar to what i did for accessible names to check algorithm
- # [16:01] <@surkov> that's really nice to have, but gets prepare to a lot of fixes or todo things
- # [16:01] <@davidb> yes i was thinking automatization… but i also like self documenting
- # [16:02] <@surkov> sort of the same in my understanding until you keep in mind something special
- # [16:02] <@davidb> depends what we mean by automatization
- # [16:04] <@surkov> ok
- # [16:04] <@davidb> surkov: Maybe we should have a mochitest/tree/test_general.html?
- # [16:04] <@surkov> davidb: file a meta bug?
- # [16:04] <@surkov> if we have small uncovered things then yes
- # [16:05] <@davidb> surkov: i was thinking of section
- # [16:05] <@davidb> we could move the role check there
- # [16:05] <@surkov> right, we can do that
- # [16:05] <@davidb> ugh
- # [16:06] <@davidb> i guess for aria landmark roles too
- # [16:06] * @davidb is torn about splitting that up
- # [16:07] <@surkov> davidb: btw, we have test_role_nsHyperTextAcc.html
- # [16:07] <@davidb> yes
- # [16:07] <@davidb> i was looking at that earlier
- # [16:07] <@surkov> maybe we should have role folder to keep html, xul, aria roles
- # [16:07] <@davidb> maybe
- # [16:07] <@davidb> surkov: I'm tempted to r+ Mark_Capella with something simpler and have him file a follow up
- # [16:07] <@davidb> have him == ask him to
- # [16:08] <@davidb> :)
- # [16:08] <@surkov> davidb: sounds good
- # [16:08] <@davidb> surkov: what if we take it as is, but call it /elm/test_general.html ?
- # [16:08] <@surkov> sounds about nothing
- # [16:09] <@surkov> let's add those tests under test_elm_landmark and file a bug for clean up things
- # [16:09] <@davidb> sounds good enough
- # [16:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I don't have enough experience with js to have to many opinions
- # [16:12] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 609654 on bug 614310.
- # [16:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614310 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map <section> to pane (like role="region")
- # [16:12] <@surkov> but you have API experience :) tbsaunde
- # [16:12] <@davidb> my js is very web developer biased
- # [16:12] <@davidb> dojo biased ;)
- # [16:13] <@davidb> askalski: resent team meeting invite
- # [16:13] <@davidb> askalski: there is an app
- # [16:13] <@davidb> askalski: LDAP sync
- # [16:14] <@askalski> davidb, thanks. the app is for android? and LDAP holds these informations?
- # [16:14] <@davidb> android
- # [16:14] <@davidb> askalski: i guess so?
- # [16:14] <@askalski> davidb, I thought LDAP is just auth service
- # [16:14] <@davidb> me too
- # [16:14] <@askalski> davidb, will google
- # [16:14] <@davidb> askalski: also try the intranet
- # [16:15] <@davidb> askalski: Mobile_Email_And_Calendar_Setup
- # [16:15] <@tbsaunde> surkov: true
- # [16:17] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Do you remember what Dennis was referring to with those headers that are breaking up? I don't see what he means. I *do* see the problem with the labels not being present.
- # [16:18] <@askalski> davidb, oh, I need to buy some stuff from android market to make it work, and I have no credit card set, so I guess I'll leave it for now
- # [16:18] <@davidb> MarcoZ: he said something about arrowing vs tabbing
- # [16:18] <@davidb> askalski: i can't recall if i bought anything or not
- # [16:19] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah I got that one. He also said something about a break tag after "official", and I don't find that.
- # [16:20] <@askalski> davidb, it's no problem, just I don't want to spend working time on reading market's policy
- # [16:20] <@davidb> Oh there was a br in a heading or something MarcoZ
- # [16:20] <@davidb> askalski: roger
- # [16:21] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah and I don't see that one.
- # [16:21] <@MarcoZ> OK I'll file for the labels only for the time being.
- # [16:26] <@davidb> cool
- # [16:26] <@davidb> does dennisl have bugmail?
- # [16:26] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I didn't look, I tweeted him the link.
- # [16:28] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You're CC'd.
- # [16:28] <@davidb> ok
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- # [16:46] <@askalski> davidb, I am just browsing a-team's stuff
- # [16:47] <@askalski> davidb, it's quite impressive, they did a lot of useful stuff
- # [16:47] <@davidb> of course they did. http://waffleironblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/the-a-team.jpg
- # [16:48] <@davidb> They rescued people etc. Mr. T. kicks ass.
- # [16:49] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [16:49] * @MarcoZ is playing around with the IM functionality in Thunderbird daily.
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- # [16:58] <@askalski> davidb, :D I was watching it in childhood! entire polish TV is due to licensing costs several years behind west, so you could watch A-Team in Poland in 1995!
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- # [16:58] <@davidb> every cloud has a silver lining
- # [17:01] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 609709 on bug 614310.
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- # [17:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614310 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map <section> to pane (like role="region")
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- # [17:19] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 739612 filed by markcapella@twcny.rr.com.
- # [17:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739612 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Cleanup A11y tests and test-suite organization
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- # [17:47] <@davidb> MarcoZ: can you figure out if there is anything we need to codify for Q2 goals with respect to Kilimanjaro?
- # [17:48] <@davidb> We can then touch on it tomorrow at the meeting.
- # [17:49] * @davidb emails
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- # [17:52] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So far I haven't seen anything regarding this project still.
- # [17:52] <@davidb> MarcoZ: it is just a name
- # [17:53] <@davidb> MarcoZ: want to hop on skype?
- # [17:53] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yup.
- # [17:53] <@davidb> great
- # [17:54] <@davidb> i have a hard stop in 13 mins
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- # [18:18] <@firebot> neil@httl.net cancelled superreview?(neil@httl.net) for attachment 609151 on bug 736252.
- # [18:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736252 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, stop using QueryInterface in CAccessibleAction
- # [18:36] <aaronlev_> Morning all
- # [18:36] <@tbsaunde> morning
- # [18:36] <aaronlev_> I'm working on a set of Chromium tests for what should be exposed via IA2/Mac accessibility for each HTML element
- # [18:36] <aaronlev_> maybe we can share back and forth
- # [18:45] <@tbsaunde> aaronlev_: that might be useful
- # [18:47] <aaronlev_> i should explore the tests that mozilla accessibility has these days
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- # [19:11] <NeilAway> tbsaunde: feel free to request a review on what I condensed your patch down to if you feel that's the right approach
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- # [19:15] <@tbsaunde> NeilAway: ok, of Alex you mean?
- # [19:17] <@davidb> dagnabit
- # [19:18] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [19:20] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ?
- # [19:25] * @tbsaunde notes staying away from #developers isn't actually helping with being distracted much...
- # [19:27] <@davidb> sorry - wanted to catch aaronlev re tests
- # [19:27] <@tbsaunde> oh, np
- # [19:28] <@tbsaunde> NeilAway: since you did a bit of work it seems fairest to get review on that patch
- # [19:29] <@tbsaunde> I'm sort of tempted to do it myself, but I think asking surkov is a better plan so I will when I'm done commenting on another patch
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- # [19:53] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(trev.saunders@gma il.com) for attachment 609694 on bug 737724.
- # [19:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, make IsDefunct() inline
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- # [19:57] * @tbsaunde wonders hwo busy davidb is
- # [19:59] <@davidb> tbsaunde: wazzup?
- # [19:59] <@davidb> it is all about priorities :)
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- # [20:05] <@askalski> I am finishing for today.
- # [20:05] <@davidb> askalski: have a nice night
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- # [20:07] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not terribly important was considering having you review 736252 since Alex hs looked before, but probably not worth your time
- # [20:08] <@davidb> ok
- # [20:08] * @davidb -> dev meeting
- # [20:10] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 609743 on bug 736252.
- # [20:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736252 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, stop using QueryInterface in CAccessibleAction
- # [20:10] <@davidb> (in general I can do reviews)
- # [20:11] <@davidb> (I set a nifty mail filter to bubble up those requests)
- # [20:12] <@tbsaunde> heh
- # [20:13] * @tbsaunde just reads at least who every mail is from ;-)
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- # [20:20] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 609796 on bug 736252.
- # [20:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736252 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, stop using QueryInterface in CAccessibleAction
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- # [20:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: are you using dbolter@moco for bug mail now?
- # [20:29] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yes
- # [20:30] <@davidb> :davidb resolves
- # [20:30] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, just hadn't noticed before so was a little suprised to see that resolution
- # [20:31] <@davidb> heh
- # [20:31] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 609803 on bug 733510.
- # [20:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733510 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, Transition boolean a11y telemetry to 'flag' telemetry as appropriate
- # [20:31] <@tbsaunde> davidb: you should like ^ :)
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- # [20:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: haha. did you test?
- # [20:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not really sure how too
- # [20:34] <@davidb> about:telemetry
- # [20:35] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok, well, what should flag ones look like?
- # [20:35] <@davidb> just showing up is good enough
- # [20:36] <@davidb> easier to ask nfroyd for feedback - i'll do that
- # [20:37] <@tbsaunde> I can't really believe we'd go from one macro to another and they'd build but just disapear
- # [20:37] <@tbsaunde> I may be an optmist though
- # [20:37] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com cancelled feedback?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) for attachment 609709 on bug 614310.
- # [20:37] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from dbolter@mozilla.c om for attachment 609811 on bug 614310.
- # [20:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614310 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Map <section> to pane (like role="region")
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- # [20:38] <@davidb> tbsaunde: well it isn't our component.
- # [20:39] <@tbsaunde> davidb: true
- # [20:39] <@tbsaunde> but I'd say its sort of a gray area
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- # [20:42] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 609803 on bug 733510.
- # [20:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733510 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, Transition boolean a11y telemetry to 'flag' telemetry as appropriate
- # [20:43] <@davidb> hi aaronlev
- # [20:43] <@davidb> aaronlev: our tests need to a reorg
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- # [20:46] <aaronlev> davidb: i was looking at them and i think some of them could be usable in chromium
- # [20:46] <aaronlev> because they use an include to do the actual testing, and we can just change the include
- # [20:47] <aaronlev> the html/js for the test file is nice and pure
- # [20:47] <aaronlev> for example, we would just change the test_name function to do it some other way
- # [20:47] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted feedback for attachment 609811 on bug 614310.
- # [20:47] <@davidb> aaronlev: yep
- # [20:47] <aaronlev> since there is no nsIAccessible
- # [20:56] <@davidb> !seen jdm
- # [20:56] <@firebot> jdm was last seen 1 hour, 46 minutes and 37 seconds ago, saying 'if the latter, we should probably expand that to feedback as well' in #developers.
- # [20:58] <aaronlev> where's mozilla's code to add states::HORIZONTAL or VERTICAL in HTML
- # [20:58] <aaronlev> I only see it for XUL
- # [21:00] <@davidb> good q
- # [21:00] <@davidb> aaronlev: we have this rule http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/base/nsARIAMap.h#185
- # [21:01] <@davidb> is there an html attribute as well?
- # [21:01] <aaronlev> davidb: in HTML I think it's based on layout
- # [21:01] <aaronlev> e.g. inline vs. block
- # [21:02] <aaronlev> I see the state present
- # [21:02] <@davidb> ok
- # [21:02] * tbsaunde is now known as tbsaunde|afk
- # [21:04] <Mark_Capella> the private thing? I did a few bugs with this sgautherie guy ... dude couldnt let go of a bug ... kept changing it ... adding in stuff
- # [21:04] <Mark_Capella> drove me nuts :)
- # [21:05] <@davidb> we've all been there
- # [21:06] <@davidb> Mark_Capella: which private thing?
- # [21:06] <Mark_Capella> earlier comment re: chats
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- # [22:29] <@firebot> neil@httl.net granted superreview for attachment 609270 on bug 648265.
- # [22:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=648265 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, provide dexcomed table interface version
- # [22:31] <@davidb> tbsaunde|afk: nice work
- # [22:32] <@tbsaunde|afk> davidb: thanks
- # [22:32] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
- # [22:32] * NeilAway thwaps firebot
- # [22:32] <@tbsaunde> NeilAway: what did it do?
- # [22:33] <@tbsaunde> that you don't like I mean
- # [22:33] <NeilAway> tbsaunde: used my bugmail address
- # [22:34] <@tbsaunde> NeilAway: oh, I see
- # [22:35] <@tbsaunde> davidb: since your still around is uia on arm going to be the same OCM as desktop?
- # [22:35] <@davidb> tbsaunde: OCM?
- # [22:35] <@tbsaunde> I see the msdn docs seem to indicate metro will use COM but it wasn't clear if that x86 only
- # [22:35] <@tbsaunde> davidb: COM
- # [22:36] <@davidb> oh
- # [22:36] <@davidb> the arm devices have strict requirements on battery etc… i think COM won't make the cut
- # [22:36] <@davidb> UIA has a raw mode
- # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> raw mode?
- # [22:36] <@davidb> mode is the wrong term i suspect
- # [22:37] <@tbsaunde> any chance you have links for a doc?
- # [22:37] <@davidb> nope
- # [22:37] <@davidb> I have my notes which I need to jazz up
- # [22:37] <@tbsaunde> I saw there was some plain C functions or something that were depricated....
- # [22:37] <@davidb> I doubt we can run on windows arm devices.
- # [22:37] <@davidb> period.
- # [22:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oh, ok
- # [22:38] <@tbsaunde> can you explain why?
- # [22:38] <@davidb> our big question is what where we think Narrator will go… will it be awesome… do we need to work with it for the out of the box windows a11y experience
- # [22:38] <@tbsaunde> if you can having notes before meeting would be good so we can look at them and try to understand docs :)
- # [22:39] <@davidb> yes definitely
- # [22:39] <@davidb> i'll send them when ready
- # [22:39] <@tbsaunde> davidb: isn't the question more do we need to implement uia and I suspect the answer is yes even if we don't need to care about narator
- # [22:39] <@davidb> It might be
- # [22:39] <@tbsaunde> davidb: thx
- # [22:39] <@davidb> But the advice I got made everything hinge on Narrator
- # [22:40] <@davidb> I will have a follow up with Larry. I will be chatting with Mick tomorrow.
- # [22:40] <@davidb> at least that's my plan
- # [22:40] <@davidb> Mick late tomorrow
- # [22:40] <@tbsaunde> davidb: on the other hand implementing uia might make people care about ia2 even less which I'm not sure we want
- # [22:41] <@tbsaunde> so maybe a ia2 -> uia bridge is a better idea I'm not sure
- # [22:41] <@davidb> IBM's take on things surprised me, but Rich has a good spider sense about these things.
- # [22:41] <@davidb> there already is a bridge/proxy
- # [22:41] <@davidb> I need windows 8
- # [22:42] <@tbsaunde> davidb: for ia2 as well as msaa?
- # [22:42] <@davidb> sigh
- # [22:42] <@davidb> i see what you mean
- # [22:42] <@tbsaunde> davidb: can't you just download the preview thing or if not grab it of fs?
- # [22:42] <@davidb> right now UIA would just be confused by IA2
- # [22:42] <@davidb> yes - but i need to actually do that
- # [22:43] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [22:43] <@davidb> also supposed to leave 5 mins ago :)
- # [22:43] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, was suprised you were still around see you
- # [22:43] <@davidb> currently skipping a w3 call actually
- # [22:43] <@davidb> which also conflicts with a meeting that was cancelled
- # [22:43] <@davidb> enough about me
- # [22:44] <@tbsaunde> heh
- # [22:44] <@davidb> yep - later!
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- # [22:53] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from taras.mozilla@glek. net for attachment 609870 on bug 733510.
- # [22:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733510 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, Transition boolean a11y telemetry to 'flag' telemetry as appropriate
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- # [23:26] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from trev.saunders@gma il.com for attachment 609881 on bug 737724.
- # [23:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, make IsDefunct() inline
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- # [23:49] <satdav> hi guys i wonder if you can help with a screen reader issue on all of mozilla projects
- # [23:50] <@tbsaunde> maybe?
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- # Session Close: Wed Mar 28 00:00:00 2012
The end :)