/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-04-04 / end
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- # Session Start: Wed Apr 04 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [00:24] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-aurora for attachment 608601 on bug 656225.
- # [00:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656225 maj, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, VERI FIXED, [A11Y]New profile item in firefox4.0 user profile dialog is not accessible.
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- # [01:50] <@tbsaunde|afk> khuey: what is the story iwth toolkit/toolkit-allmakefiles.sh?
- # [01:50] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
- # [01:54] <khuey> tbsaunde: you stick makefiles in there, and we generate them at the start of the build
- # [01:54] <khuey> which is faster than doing them one by one
- # [01:58] <@tbsaunde> khuey: ok
- # [01:58] <@tbsaunde> thx
- # [02:02] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com denied review for attachment 611927 on bug 739889.
- # [02:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739889 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, densify nsOuterDocAccessible
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- # [02:12] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 611834 on bug 734566.
- # [02:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734566 nor, --, ---, michaljev, ASSI, optimize layout of TextAttrsMgr
- # [02:44] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca cancelled feedback?(eitan@monotonous. org) for attachment 611684 on bug 670853.
- # [02:44] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 612038 on bug 670853.
- # [02:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670853 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, undetermined progressmeters should expose mixed state
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- # [04:23] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 612060 on bug 559746.
- # [04:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559746 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, add a11y mochitests for <input type="tel">
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- # [07:15] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 612038 on bug 670853.
- # [07:15] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested feedback from eitan@monotonous.org for attachment 612038 on bug 670853.
- # [07:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670853 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, undetermined progressmeters should expose mixed state
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- # [07:44] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox13 to fixed on bug 656225.
- # [07:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656225 maj, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, VERI FIXED, [A11Y]New profile item in firefox4.0 user profile dialog is not accessible.
- # [07:45] <@surkov> MarcoZ: thank you ^
- # [07:45] <@MarcoZ> surkov: yw!
- # [07:47] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I think for beta it's too late to ask approval, so we should just let this ride the trains and let the fix be in 13.
- # [07:47] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 612060 on bug 559746.
- # [07:48] <@surkov> MarcoZ: agree
- # [07:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559746 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, add a11y mochitests for <input type="tel">
- # [07:49] <@firebot> pookveeraya@gmail.com requested feedback from marco.zehe@google mail.com for attachment 612107 on bug 739179.
- # [07:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739179 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide test for strong table landmark "application" in test_aria_roles.html
- # [08:00] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted feedback for attachment 612107 on bug 739179.
- # [08:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739179 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide test for strong table landmark "application" in test_aria_roles.html
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- # [08:08] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 612107 on bug 739179.
- # [08:20] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 612108 on bug 739889.
- # [08:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739889 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, densify nsOuterDocAccessible
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- # [09:39] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 734566 from --- to mozilla14.
- # [09:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734566 nor, --, mozilla14, michaljev, ASSI, optimize layout of TextAttrsMgr
- # [09:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 559746 from --- to mozilla14.
- # [09:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559746 nor, --, mozilla14, maxli, NEW, add a11y mochitests for <input type="tel">
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- # [12:01] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 612108 on bug 739889.
- # [12:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739889 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, densify nsOuterDocAccessible
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- # [12:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, about bug 741398, I hope you are ok if I continue cleaning up to meet your comments
- # [12:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741398 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, make ARIA state map extensible
- # [12:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: patch is going to get bigger
- # [12:36] <@surkov> to keep things nice
- # [12:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: is it ok with you?
- # [12:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what cleaning up more?
- # [12:38] <@tbsaunde> of course cleaning up sounds good
- # [12:38] <@surkov> nsARIAMap stuffs
- # [12:38] <@tbsaunde> I can deal with a bit bigger patch, that should be a big deal
- # [12:38] <@surkov> ok
- # [12:39] <@surkov> hold on then :)
- # [12:39] <@tbsaunde> I was sort of wonderiing what you were thinking aboutthat ptch but forgot to ask
- # [12:49] <@askalski> hi everyone
- # [12:49] <@tbsaunde> askalski: hi
- # [13:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: hm, you know probably I would go without big reorg since l lot of changes :)
- # [13:15] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, not sure what you want to do, butthe current patch seems like an improvement as
- # [13:15] <@tbsaunde> is
- # [13:15] <@surkov> ok :)
- # [13:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: on the other hand a big reorg that makes lots of things better might be great too
- # [13:18] <@surkov> right, but I afraid it's going to eat time
- # [13:20] <@tbsaunde> ok
- # [13:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: btw what do you want to move on to working on, so you want to avoid eating time on aria reogr?
- # [13:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: well, except the code I have many things on my plate. if you concern the code then I'm looking at some mutation events coalescence
- # [13:31] <@surkov> and million other things :)
- # [13:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, both
- # [13:34] <@surkov> I'm sort of here, there and everywhere
- # [13:34] <@tbsaunde> heh
- # [13:35] <@surkov> one ongoing html activity I need to review http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
- # [13:35] <@surkov> I still need to look closer at b2g accessibility
- # [13:35] <@surkov> but never get around
- # [13:36] <@surkov> I need to fix those zoom location stuffs
- # [13:36] <@surkov> my tabs remember other things :)
- # [13:36] <@surkov> I don't :)
- # [13:37] <@surkov> I'm dreaming to get closer to text bugs
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- # [13:53] <@askalski> tbsaunde, have you ever tried compiling firefox with clang?
- # [13:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 611462 on bug 741398.
- # [13:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 612149 on bug 741398.
- # [13:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741398 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, make ARIA state map extensible
- # [14:00] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 718627 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [14:00] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 718627 to FIXED.
- # [14:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718627 nor, P1, mozilla14, hub, RESO FIXED, [Mac] Navigating by character, or interacting with, the text in the awesome bar does not speak the c
- # [14:21] <@eeejay> surkov, at is a dying term because more and more products ship with it and it is becoming ubiquitous
- # [14:22] <@eeejay> don't want to continue philosophizing on bugzilla :)
- # [14:22] <@surkov> :)
- # [14:23] <@eeejay> surkov, also "js" should not be a prefix of a js object
- # [14:23] <@surkov> ok
- # [14:23] <@surkov> what options?
- # [14:24] <@eeejay> the name means to mean something for the owners of the chrome content modules, that is why i suggested ChromeAccessibility
- # [14:25] <@tbsaunde> askalski: no, I think davidb has
- # [14:25] <@tbsaunde> askalski: why?
- # [14:26] <@askalski> tbsaunde, just curious
- # [14:27] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I had an interesting conversation with guy from google on our faculty yesterday, he told me they rely on clang's feedback very much
- # [14:27] <@askalski> tbsaunde, furthermore, they did write their own windows "make" alternative as well :D, although not supporting all standard options, just those used by chromium
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- # [14:28] <@tbsaunde> askalski: yeah, I've heard that before
- # [14:31] <@surkov> eeejay: I would name it based on "what it is supposed for" rather than "who is supposed to use it"
- # [14:32] <@eeejay> surkov, i think it also reflects what it does - itprovides accessibility features in the crome layer
- # [14:34] <@surkov> accessibility is just so extensive term
- # [14:34] <@surkov> "chrome layer" is where it's used but not what is supposed for actually
- # [14:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: for the xul autocomplete thing I was concerned about your use of AsElement() on the xul mContent
- # [14:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you have ideas about naming?
- # [14:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: and what is concern? mContent is always Element there
- # [14:35] <@tbsaunde> not off hand, chromeAccessibility seems long
- # [14:35] <@tbsaunde> and not very descriptive
- # [14:36] <@surkov> that's what I said
- # [14:36] <@surkov> except long :) but I thought about that :)
- # [14:36] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, is jsAT more descriptive?
- # [14:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: re concern ok, I wasn't sure that would be true since its xul, and iirc xul dom impl is weird
- # [14:36] <@eeejay> surkov, tbsaunde, it is used in one line, ChromeAccessibility.attach()
- # [14:36] <@eeejay> that is it
- # [14:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: nah, it should be ok
- # [14:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
- # [14:37] <@surkov> ok, gotta go to make children sleep
- # [14:37] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I like jsAT better, but not sure its good for people maintaining browser.xul as you say
- # [14:38] <@tbsaunde> heh, I have class
- # [14:38] <@eeejay> that is why i thought jsAT is a good name for the directory in our module - it makes sense for us - "this is where the js bits that drive our AT live"
- # [14:38] * @eeejay will continue the debate with himself
- # [14:39] <@eeejay> maybe BrowserAccessibility
- # [14:39] <@eeejay> but in b2g it stops being a browser
- # [14:39] <@eeejay> ShellAccessibility
- # [14:40] <@eeejay> i feel pretty strongly that Accessibility needs to be in it, especially since it is used outside our module. AT doesn't cut it
- # [14:41] <@eeejay> maybe ContentAccessibility
- # [14:50] <@eeejay> how about UniversalAccess?
- # [14:51] <@eeejay> too mac-y?
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- # [15:06] <@davidb> hi all!
- # [15:06] <@davidb> surkov: that checkable:true is a perfect example of a surprise change.
- # [15:07] <@davidb> If I understand correctly.
- # [15:09] <@davidb> surkov: are you able to file w3 bugs?
- # [15:09] <@surkov> davidb: I didn't do that, but since I have account then I can do that I think
- # [15:10] <@davidb> ok - let me know if you hit any problems
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- # [15:10] <@surkov> I'll run through the spec in background
- # [15:10] <@surkov> ok
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- # [15:11] <@surkov> eeejay: yes, UniversalAccess is reserved by mac
- # [15:11] <@eeejay> surkov, it is in GNOME too
- # [15:12] <@surkov> eeejay: ATBillet? :)
- # [15:12] <@eeejay> surkov, *i* don't even get that, what is billet?
- # [15:13] <@surkov> options of the word are: blank, billet, provision, bar, curing
- # [15:13] <@surkov> it's a think you can use to create an AT
- # [15:13] <@eeejay> curing? like curing meat?
- # [15:13] <@surkov> it's just a russian word tranlation
- # [15:14] <@eeejay> ahh :)
- # [15:15] <@eeejay> davidb, we are debating the name for the top-level object in the js module
- # [15:15] <@eeejay> surkov, and tbsaunde are partial to jsAT. I think it is redundant (js?), and means nothing outside of an a11y context (AT?). this will be called from outside our module
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- # [15:16] <@eeejay> my suggestions were {Chrome,Content,Browser,Shell}Accessibility
- # [15:17] <@eeejay> surkov, how about AssistiveTechnology?
- # [15:18] <@surkov> eeejay: AT is a short name of AssistiveTEchnology
- # [15:18] <@surkov> and I like short names
- # [15:18] <@eeejay> surkov, i know. but it means a million other things outside of a11y
- # [15:19] <@surkov> well, there are a lot of used abbreviations used for different things and it doesn't prevent people to continue to use them. They are all context dependent and it appears that's ok
- # [15:19] <@eeejay> surkov, for internal names, i am all for brevity, but this is the one name that will be exposed outside our module. on one line.
- # [15:20] <@davidb> "Celeste"
- # [15:20] <@davidb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeste_%28colour%29
- # [15:20] <@davidb> And rename it later :)
- # [15:21] <@eeejay> hard to argue with that
- # [15:21] <@surkov> it's cool but not descriptive at all
- # [15:23] <@davidb> ok, what is the purpose of the top-level object? what duties does it have?
- # [15:23] <@davidb> It provides an alternate interaction for the browser right?
- # [15:24] <@eeejay> davidb, surkov, in browser.js
- # [15:24] <@davidb> eeejay: ?
- # [15:24] <@eeejay> you would do Cu.import(...Foo.jsm);
- # [15:24] <@eeejay> and then Foo.attach(window);
- # [15:24] * @davidb listens
- # [15:24] <@eeejay> that is it
- # [15:25] <@davidb> "Foo" it is then!
- # [15:25] <@davidb> A11yFu
- # [15:25] <@eeejay> so this is the *only* public API in our js stack
- # [15:25] <@davidb> ah
- # [15:25] <@eeejay> i kinda like that
- # [15:25] <@davidb> A8eFu
- # [15:26] <@surkov> davidb: this object maintains the navigation and it knowns how announce, visual presentation (and other things like braille I believe), in other words, this objects is responsible for AT user interaction with mozilla products
- # [15:26] <@davidb> yeah
- # [15:26] <@eeejay> so for that one name, I don't want something ambiguous as AT (or A8eFu)
- # [15:26] <@davidb> right
- # [15:27] <@davidb> if we knew it was always about tts i can think of many names
- # [15:27] <@eeejay> I like AccessFu though, if everyone had a sense of humor
- # [15:27] <@eeejay> it ain't
- # [15:27] <@davidb> well we have a libpr0n
- # [15:28] <@eeejay> is it sfw to look at the code?
- # [15:28] <@davidb> heh
- # [15:28] <@davidb> oh i probably spelled it wrong
- # [15:28] <@davidb> no http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=libpr0n&find=&findi=&filter=^[^\0]*%24&hitlimit=&tree=mozilla-central
- # [15:29] <@davidb> seems to have been removed mostly
- # [15:30] * @eeejay is becoming more and more partial to AccessFu
- # [15:31] <@eeejay> but i will wait a bit... let emotions calm
- # [15:31] <@davidb> that twitter name happens to be available
- # [15:31] <@eeejay> davidb, quick!
- # [15:31] <@davidb> nah
- # [15:32] <@davidb> Gnasher
- # [15:33] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
- # [15:33] <@davidb> surkov, eeejay: Celeste does sort of go with Gaia
- # [15:33] <@MarcoZ> I also think something less AT-ish would be good for naming this baby.
- # [15:33] <@davidb> hi MarcoZ!
- # [15:34] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, goodday!
- # [15:34] * @eeejay snagged AccessFu on twitter
- # [15:34] <@surkov> well, for API stuff I would use descriptive things
- # [15:35] <@davidb> i generally agree… how many customers of our API will there be?
- # [15:35] <@eeejay> davidb, eventually we will have this conversation again... when we need to determine what to call our "screen reader" in b2g
- # [15:35] <@davidb> Celeste
- # [15:36] <@davidb> :)
- # [15:36] <@eeejay> :)
- # [15:36] <@MarcoZ> :D
- # [15:37] <@eeejay> at least eyes-free is taken by tv
- # [15:37] <@davidb> too bad jaccess reminds me of jackass
- # [15:37] <@eeejay> thank gad
- # [15:37] <@davidb> haha
- # [15:38] <@davidb> what's is surkov's favorite?
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- # [15:39] <@surkov> dunno
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- # [15:40] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 742280 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
- # [15:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742280 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, We need accessibility click events
- # [15:45] <@eeejay> bbiab
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- # [16:27] <@askalski> davidb, is there a team meeting?
- # [16:27] <@davidb> askalski: no
- # [16:28] <@askalski> davidb, ok, I am back to work then
- # [16:28] <@davidb> :)
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- # [16:55] <@davidb> surkov: what exactly is the inspect button? (bug 736418)
- # [16:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736418 nor, --, ---, paul, REOP, Hide the "Inspect" button from screen readers
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- # [16:58] <@surkov> davidb: it's just a button that allows you inspect the page by mouse
- # [16:58] <@surkov> just try it yourself
- # [16:58] <@davidb> where is it?
- # [16:58] <@davidb> i invoke inspect from the menu
- # [16:58] <@davidb> there is a little pointer button in the inspect bar - is that it?
- # [16:59] <@davidb> surkov: ^
- # [17:02] <@surkov> there's inspect button in the bar
- # [17:03] <@davidb> surkov: what does it look like?
- # [17:03] <@surkov> like a button having inspect label
- # [17:03] <@davidb> surkov: i don't see that in nightly
- # [17:03] <@davidb> i see a close box, a pointer graphic butting, an HTML button etc.
- # [17:04] <@davidb> butting/button
- # [17:04] <@davidb> surkov: on mac
- # [17:04] <@surkov> ok, I didn't look at mac
- # [17:04] <@davidb> surkov: do you see a button with an "Inspect" label to the right of the close box?
- # [17:05] <@surkov> davidb: oh, yes they changed it in nightly, it's a button with pointer
- # [17:06] <@davidb> ok
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- # [17:17] <@askalski> see you later everyone
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- # [17:20] <@MarcoZ> Morning hub!
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- # [17:24] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So, is this inspect tool really useful for screen reader users? Or does the button do something completely different than the "Inspect" item from an element's context menu?
- # [17:25] <@davidb> MarcoZ: the Inspect menu item invokes the inspector (mode). The button discussed on the bug is only part of that mode, namely the mouse-hover mode of inspect.
- # [17:25] <@davidb> Inspect should be completely usable by screen reader users eventually IMO.
- # [17:25] <@davidb> mouse hover mode, perhaps not.
- # [17:26] <@MarcoZ> I agree! It has the described problems, meaning that focus returns to the web content, and Inspect panel is not in the F6 nor in the tab order.
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- # [17:26] <@davidb> MarcoZ: from the context menu, Inspect launches inspect mode in non-mouseover mode.
- # [17:27] <@davidb> so the mouseover mode button is untoggled
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- # [17:29] <@surkov> tbsaunde: can help jhk to finish his proposal? I did several suggestion but now proposal is too short ;) and it's deep night for me now
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- # [17:34] <@surkov> davidb: probably you?
- # [17:34] <@davidb> surkov: i was thinking you
- # [17:34] <@davidb> i haven't looked as deep at UIA impl
- # [17:35] <@surkov> davidb: it's more about proposal
- # [17:35] <@surkov> how to make it looking nice
- # [17:35] <@davidb> surkov: in the first para, is it true "we cannot get a value or information about text like styles in it"?
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- # [17:36] <@surkov> davidb: I did some suggestion about abstract section how to improve it
- # [17:37] <@surkov> I hope jhk will fix it soon
- # [17:37] <@davidb> ok jhk once you have made corrections - ping me and i'll look - ok?
- # [17:37] <@surkov> he need to say why IAccessible2 doesn't always work for our needs
- # [17:38] <@davidb> because we IA2 (and COM) isn't guaranteed on all future Windows devices.
- # [17:38] <@surkov> yes, I said that too
- # [17:38] <@davidb> ok
- # [17:38] <@surkov> davidb: I said:
- # [17:38] <@surkov> surkov: jhk: you need to say that MS considers UIA as electronic curb cut effect so they use it not only for screen readers (like Narrator) but for everything else like windows speech recognition
- # [17:38] <@surkov> [2:53pm] surkov: otherwise IAccessible2 would be enough
- # [17:38] <@surkov> [2:54pm] surkov: also the future of MSAA is not clear on ARM devices where probably there's no COM so no MSAA no IA2 work and there's unique solution to keep browser accessible is implement UIA
- # [17:38] <@surkov> [2:55pm] surkov: also MS isn't going to bridge IA2 to UIA so if we want to run Firefox on Windows 8 Metro then we need UIA to keep platform accessible
- # [17:39] <@hub> hi
- # [17:39] <@davidb> surkov: ok
- # [17:39] <@surkov> hi, hub
- # [17:39] <@davidb> hi hub!
- # [17:39] <@surkov> davidb: when is deadline?
- # [17:40] <@davidb> April 06 at 19:00 UTC
- # [17:41] <@surkov> so we can polish it tomorrow then
- # [17:41] <@davidb> yep
- # [17:41] <@surkov> ok, davidb, tbsaunde and jhk, please work on it tonight, tomorrow I'll take a look again. Ok?
- # [17:41] <@davidb> yep - jhk ping me when updated please
- # [17:42] <@surkov> ok, then see you, guys, going to sleep
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- # [17:57] <jhk> davidb: yeah sure.
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- # [18:16] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 739612 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [18:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739612 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Cleanup A11y tests and test-suite organization
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- # [18:58] <jimm> davidb: ping
- # [18:58] <@davidb> jimm: ping
- # [18:58] <@davidb> pong even
- # [18:59] <jimm> hey, is there an open bug on implementing ui automation in moz accessibility?
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- # [19:03] <@davidb> jimm: I don't think we have one yet
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- # [19:04] <jimm> ok
- # [19:04] <jimm> so I've gained a pretty good understanding of how things work in metro.
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- # [19:05] <jimm> I haven't gotten far enough along to test what I'm doing but I think it'll work
- # [19:05] <jimm> basically taking our IAccessible, using that windows api function to wrap it with a uia provider, and hand that back to clients/metro
- # [19:06] <jimm> thing is though accessibility code will be on at all times
- # [19:06] <jimm> since metro is one of the clients
- # [19:06] <jimm> so if we have perf issues in the code..
- # [19:06] <jimm> we'd be interested in finding some solutions there
- # [19:06] <jimm> I was wondering if we might be able to do a slimmed down uia provider that only exposed certain elements like text edits
- # [19:07] <jimm> as a work around if perf is a big issue
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- # [19:33] <@davidb> jimm: maybe
- # [19:33] * @davidb is on a phone meeting
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- # [19:49] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 740750 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [19:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740750 nor, --, ---, junky.argonaut, ASSI, Use nsITreeView* instead of nsCOMPtr<nsITreeView> as followup to bug#739524
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- # [20:10] <@davidb> eeejay: do you use Components.lookupMethod?
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- # [21:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so, re perf issues do we have any real idea what the current state is? especially when uia is in use?
- # [21:42] <@davidb> tbsaunde: "slow"
- # [21:42] <@davidb> but I haven't checked first hand, especially regarding uia usage or not
- # [21:44] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok
- # [21:45] <@tbsaunde> davidb: any chance we can get tlos to measure this somehow?
- # [21:45] <@davidb> tbsaunde: that's too slow
- # [21:45] <@davidb> i mean getting a talos landed and in production can be slow
- # [21:45] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not sure what you mean by that
- # [21:46] <@davidb> see above
- # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> davidb: couldn't we just run the dom talos with a11y on?
- # [21:46] <@davidb> oh!
- # [21:46] <@davidb> I was assuming you were thinking of our speech rec goal
- # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> might not be perfect, but would probably do for tree update issues, and maybe events atleast
- # [21:46] <@davidb> tbsaunde: dom talos is an interesting idea
- # [21:46] <@davidb> yeah
- # [21:47] <@davidb> can you have a look at what they currently test?
- # [21:47] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I gues I can try to figure it out
- # [21:47] <@davidb> or ask around
- # [21:48] <@tbsaunde> I could probably also do a try push with a11y forced on and see what happens
- # [21:53] <@davidb> jimm: we should discuss the slimmed down uia provider somewhere… either a bug or dev-accessibility or something
- # [21:54] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yep
- # [21:54] * @davidb is reviewing jhk's GSoC
- # [21:58] <jimm> davidb: what's slow about accessability? events maybe?
- # [21:59] <jimm> how does the lib hook into dom?
- # [21:59] <@davidb> jimm: yeah it could be events and coalesence
- # [21:59] <@davidb> jimm: we listen to mutations
- # [22:00] <@davidb> tbsaunde: jump in as you wish
- # [22:00] <jimm> mutations are events triggered when content changes dynamcially? (like through script manipulation?)
- # [22:01] <@tbsaunde> I'm honestly not sure what is slow, but I think we really need to find out what exactly is slow
- # [22:01] <@tbsaunde> jimm: yes, we do get called for that sort of thing both using dom events and direct calls from layout
- # [22:02] <@tbsaunde> getting rid of the dom events stuff is probably a good idea and probably fairly doable
- # [22:02] <jimm> do we listen to everything, or just the elements we cares about?
- # [22:03] <jimm> *care
- # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> jimm: well, its the old dom events api so I think we end up getting called for each event of the types we listen to on every document
- # [22:05] <jimm> I guess I'll have to dig into it to understand more.
- # [22:05] <@tbsaunde> yeah, or talk to Alex, I'm only sort of familiar with that code
- # [22:05] <jimm> davidb: fyi I'm trying to get UiaProviderFromIAccessible working with our accessible object. Unfortunately so far no luck.
- # [22:05] <@tbsaunde> most of it was written before me and hasn't reaally been changed
- # [22:05] <jimm> not sure what's up.
- # [22:06] <jimm> tbsaunde: time for an upgrade!
- # [22:06] <@tbsaunde> yeah, some of it atleast should be rewritten
- # [22:07] <@tbsaunde> the custom DOM eevents for xul trees in particular is crazy
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- # [22:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I just did a try push that should have all talos sweets with a11y forced on
- # [22:22] <@davidb> nice
- # [22:22] <@davidb> tbsaunde: that will just give us a baseline right?
- # [22:23] <@davidb> i guess it will tell us how different things are
- # [22:23] <@davidb> ?
- # [22:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd think so, or atleast how different things are according to talos
- # [22:23] <@davidb> ok
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- # [22:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=00d90cc9da61
- # [22:25] <@davidb> jimm: you can see some of our observers here http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/base/nsDocAccessible.cpp#180
- # [22:25] <@davidb> we queue events up and run off the refresh driver
- # [22:25] <@davidb> we get content inserted called directly from layout
- # [22:26] <@davidb> (and content removed)
- # [22:26] <@davidb> that's so we can cache text IIRC
- # [22:26] <@davidb> although we cache text on our side now - i need to refresh myself on this
- # [22:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: nice trick
- # [22:27] <jimm> wow
- # [22:28] <@davidb> we're very snoopy
- # [22:28] <jimm> it would ne nice if we could filter these through some sort of top level setting.
- # [22:28] <@davidb> agreed
- # [22:28] <@davidb> it is a matter of making that work a priority
- # [22:29] <jimm> win8 work may well help to do that.
- # [22:29] <@davidb> and UIA might be the right timing
- # [22:29] <@davidb> yeah
- # [22:29] <@davidb> a 'forcing function' as they say
- # [22:31] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well, I saw that dumping grround before sometime and just used it :)
- # [22:31] <@tbsaunde> yeah, there's all sorts of things we can optimize
- # [22:32] <@tbsaunde> uia has some sort of interface for asking what events we need to emit which should help too
- # [22:32] <@tbsaunde> jimm: note we also listen to some events in nsRootAccessible.cpp
- # [22:33] <@davidb> tbsaunde: don't want to take you off topic here but before I forget, can you have a look at bug 708927 sometime this week?
- # [22:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708927 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent test_focus_menu.xul | Test timed out, sometimes followed by tens of thousands of gA11yE
- # [22:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: the idea that implementing uia could help in enviroments without COM seems odd to me iven we implement uia as a pile of COM
- # [22:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: I don't know the details of how UIA would work on arm yet
- # [22:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I guss? why that one in particular?
- # [22:35] <@davidb> tbsaunde: 3 robot comments today… i think we need to stop the bleeding - maybe even consider turning off for linux
- # [22:35] <@tbsaunde> davidb: neither do I of course, but it seems like no COM would be both crazy and just screw us whatever we do with uia
- # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> davidb: 3 isn't *that* bad ook at bug 694772 :/
- # [22:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694772 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent WinXP mochitest-plain-4 | leaked 3280 bytes during test execution (1 BackstagePass, 2 M
- # [22:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: is philer complaining? or because staring three test failures doesn't seem too terrible
- # [22:37] <@davidb> i just don't like contributing to oranges becoming meaningless
- # [22:37] <@davidb> no he doesn't complain
- # [22:40] <@tbsaunde> fiar
- # [22:40] <@tbsaunde> *fair
- # [22:41] <@davidb> tbsaunde: surkov might have a spidey sense about it - i think it relates to the tree update lifecycle goal we dropped last quarter
- # [22:42] <@davidb> jimm: can you itemize the limited set of what you need for the soft keyboard etc?
- # [22:44] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok
- # [22:44] <jimm> davidb: once I get there.
- # [22:44] <@davidb> groovy
- # [22:48] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [22:48] * @davidb steps away
- # [22:54] * Quits: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [23:17] * Joins: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-829BEFC9.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
- # [23:24] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 612328 on bug 740696.
- # [23:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740696 nor, P1, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] we have children that are expired.
- # [23:31] * reuben is now known as Guest
- # [23:43] <@davidb> that bug summary makes me sad
- # [23:44] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@471D72E.2257F909.F30C9E9E.IP) (Quit: davidb)
- # [23:44] <fxa90id> :(
- # [23:48] * Guest is now known as reuben
- # Session Close: Thu Apr 05 00:00:00 2012
The end :)