/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-04-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 04 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  4. # [00:24] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-aurora for attachment 608601 on bug 656225.
  5. # [00:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656225 maj, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, VERI FIXED, [A11Y]New profile item in firefox4.0 user profile dialog is not accessible.
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  8. # [01:50] <@tbsaunde|afk> khuey: what is the story iwth toolkit/toolkit-allmakefiles.sh?
  9. # [01:50] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
  10. # [01:54] <khuey> tbsaunde: you stick makefiles in there, and we generate them at the start of the build
  11. # [01:54] <khuey> which is faster than doing them one by one
  12. # [01:58] <@tbsaunde> khuey: ok
  13. # [01:58] <@tbsaunde> thx
  14. # [02:02] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com denied review for attachment 611927 on bug 739889.
  15. # [02:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739889 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, densify nsOuterDocAccessible
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  18. # [02:12] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 611834 on bug 734566.
  19. # [02:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734566 nor, --, ---, michaljev, ASSI, optimize layout of TextAttrsMgr
  20. # [02:44] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca cancelled feedback?(eitan@monotonous. org) for attachment 611684 on bug 670853.
  21. # [02:44] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 612038 on bug 670853.
  22. # [02:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670853 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, undetermined progressmeters should expose mixed state
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  32. # [04:23] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 612060 on bug 559746.
  33. # [04:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559746 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, add a11y mochitests for <input type="tel">
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  45. # [07:15] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 612038 on bug 670853.
  46. # [07:15] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested feedback from eitan@monotonous.org for attachment 612038 on bug 670853.
  47. # [07:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670853 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, undetermined progressmeters should expose mixed state
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  51. # [07:44] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox13 to fixed on bug 656225.
  52. # [07:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656225 maj, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, VERI FIXED, [A11Y]New profile item in firefox4.0 user profile dialog is not accessible.
  53. # [07:45] <@surkov> MarcoZ: thank you ^
  54. # [07:45] <@MarcoZ> surkov: yw!
  55. # [07:47] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I think for beta it's too late to ask approval, so we should just let this ride the trains and let the fix be in 13.
  56. # [07:47] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 612060 on bug 559746.
  57. # [07:48] <@surkov> MarcoZ: agree
  58. # [07:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559746 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, add a11y mochitests for <input type="tel">
  59. # [07:49] <@firebot> pookveeraya@gmail.com requested feedback from marco.zehe@google mail.com for attachment 612107 on bug 739179.
  60. # [07:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739179 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide test for strong table landmark "application" in test_aria_roles.html
  61. # [08:00] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted feedback for attachment 612107 on bug 739179.
  62. # [08:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739179 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide test for strong table landmark "application" in test_aria_roles.html
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  64. # [08:08] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 612107 on bug 739179.
  65. # [08:20] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 612108 on bug 739889.
  66. # [08:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739889 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, densify nsOuterDocAccessible
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  77. # [09:39] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 734566 from --- to mozilla14.
  78. # [09:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734566 nor, --, mozilla14, michaljev, ASSI, optimize layout of TextAttrsMgr
  79. # [09:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 559746 from --- to mozilla14.
  80. # [09:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=559746 nor, --, mozilla14, maxli, NEW, add a11y mochitests for <input type="tel">
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  102. # [12:01] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 612108 on bug 739889.
  103. # [12:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739889 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, densify nsOuterDocAccessible
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  106. # [12:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, about bug 741398, I hope you are ok if I continue cleaning up to meet your comments
  107. # [12:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741398 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, make ARIA state map extensible
  108. # [12:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: patch is going to get bigger
  109. # [12:36] <@surkov> to keep things nice
  110. # [12:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: is it ok with you?
  111. # [12:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what cleaning up more?
  112. # [12:38] <@tbsaunde> of course cleaning up sounds good
  113. # [12:38] <@surkov> nsARIAMap stuffs
  114. # [12:38] <@tbsaunde> I can deal with a bit bigger patch, that should be a big deal
  115. # [12:38] <@surkov> ok
  116. # [12:39] <@surkov> hold on then :)
  117. # [12:39] <@tbsaunde> I was sort of wonderiing what you were thinking aboutthat ptch but forgot to ask
  118. # [12:49] <@askalski> hi everyone
  119. # [12:49] <@tbsaunde> askalski: hi
  120. # [13:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: hm, you know probably I would go without big reorg since l lot of changes :)
  121. # [13:15] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, not sure what you want to do, butthe current patch seems like an improvement as
  122. # [13:15] <@tbsaunde> is
  123. # [13:15] <@surkov> ok :)
  124. # [13:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: on the other hand a big reorg that makes lots of things better might be great too
  125. # [13:18] <@surkov> right, but I afraid it's going to eat time
  126. # [13:20] <@tbsaunde> ok
  127. # [13:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: btw what do you want to move on to working on, so you want to avoid eating time on aria reogr?
  128. # [13:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: well, except the code I have many things on my plate. if you concern the code then I'm looking at some mutation events coalescence
  129. # [13:31] <@surkov> and million other things :)
  130. # [13:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, both
  131. # [13:34] <@surkov> I'm sort of here, there and everywhere
  132. # [13:34] <@tbsaunde> heh
  133. # [13:35] <@surkov> one ongoing html activity I need to review http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
  134. # [13:35] <@surkov> I still need to look closer at b2g accessibility
  135. # [13:35] <@surkov> but never get around
  136. # [13:36] <@surkov> I need to fix those zoom location stuffs
  137. # [13:36] <@surkov> my tabs remember other things :)
  138. # [13:36] <@surkov> I don't :)
  139. # [13:37] <@surkov> I'm dreaming to get closer to text bugs
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  142. # [13:53] <@askalski> tbsaunde, have you ever tried compiling firefox with clang?
  143. # [13:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 611462 on bug 741398.
  144. # [13:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 612149 on bug 741398.
  145. # [13:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741398 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, make ARIA state map extensible
  146. # [14:00] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 718627 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  147. # [14:00] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 718627 to FIXED.
  148. # [14:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718627 nor, P1, mozilla14, hub, RESO FIXED, [Mac] Navigating by character, or interacting with, the text in the awesome bar does not speak the c
  149. # [14:21] <@eeejay> surkov, at is a dying term because more and more products ship with it and it is becoming ubiquitous
  150. # [14:22] <@eeejay> don't want to continue philosophizing on bugzilla :)
  151. # [14:22] <@surkov> :)
  152. # [14:23] <@eeejay> surkov, also "js" should not be a prefix of a js object
  153. # [14:23] <@surkov> ok
  154. # [14:23] <@surkov> what options?
  155. # [14:24] <@eeejay> the name means to mean something for the owners of the chrome content modules, that is why i suggested ChromeAccessibility
  156. # [14:25] <@tbsaunde> askalski: no, I think davidb has
  157. # [14:25] <@tbsaunde> askalski: why?
  158. # [14:26] <@askalski> tbsaunde, just curious
  159. # [14:27] <@askalski> tbsaunde, I had an interesting conversation with guy from google on our faculty yesterday, he told me they rely on clang's feedback very much
  160. # [14:27] <@askalski> tbsaunde, furthermore, they did write their own windows "make" alternative as well :D, although not supporting all standard options, just those used by chromium
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  163. # [14:28] <@tbsaunde> askalski: yeah, I've heard that before
  164. # [14:31] <@surkov> eeejay: I would name it based on "what it is supposed for" rather than "who is supposed to use it"
  165. # [14:32] <@eeejay> surkov, i think it also reflects what it does - itprovides accessibility features in the crome layer
  166. # [14:34] <@surkov> accessibility is just so extensive term
  167. # [14:34] <@surkov> "chrome layer" is where it's used but not what is supposed for actually
  168. # [14:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: for the xul autocomplete thing I was concerned about your use of AsElement() on the xul mContent
  169. # [14:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you have ideas about naming?
  170. # [14:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: and what is concern? mContent is always Element there
  171. # [14:35] <@tbsaunde> not off hand, chromeAccessibility seems long
  172. # [14:35] <@tbsaunde> and not very descriptive
  173. # [14:36] <@surkov> that's what I said
  174. # [14:36] <@surkov> except long :) but I thought about that :)
  175. # [14:36] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, is jsAT more descriptive?
  176. # [14:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: re concern ok, I wasn't sure that would be true since its xul, and iirc xul dom impl is weird
  177. # [14:36] <@eeejay> surkov, tbsaunde, it is used in one line, ChromeAccessibility.attach()
  178. # [14:36] <@eeejay> that is it
  179. # [14:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: nah, it should be ok
  180. # [14:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  181. # [14:37] <@surkov> ok, gotta go to make children sleep
  182. # [14:37] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: I like jsAT better, but not sure its good for people maintaining browser.xul as you say
  183. # [14:38] <@tbsaunde> heh, I have class
  184. # [14:38] <@eeejay> that is why i thought jsAT is a good name for the directory in our module - it makes sense for us - "this is where the js bits that drive our AT live"
  185. # [14:38] * @eeejay will continue the debate with himself
  186. # [14:39] <@eeejay> maybe BrowserAccessibility
  187. # [14:39] <@eeejay> but in b2g it stops being a browser
  188. # [14:39] <@eeejay> ShellAccessibility
  189. # [14:40] <@eeejay> i feel pretty strongly that Accessibility needs to be in it, especially since it is used outside our module. AT doesn't cut it
  190. # [14:41] <@eeejay> maybe ContentAccessibility
  191. # [14:50] <@eeejay> how about UniversalAccess?
  192. # [14:51] <@eeejay> too mac-y?
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  196. # [15:06] <@davidb> hi all!
  197. # [15:06] <@davidb> surkov: that checkable:true is a perfect example of a surprise change.
  198. # [15:07] <@davidb> If I understand correctly.
  199. # [15:09] <@davidb> surkov: are you able to file w3 bugs?
  200. # [15:09] <@surkov> davidb: I didn't do that, but since I have account then I can do that I think
  201. # [15:10] <@davidb> ok - let me know if you hit any problems
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  203. # [15:10] <@surkov> I'll run through the spec in background
  204. # [15:10] <@surkov> ok
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  206. # [15:11] <@surkov> eeejay: yes, UniversalAccess is reserved by mac
  207. # [15:11] <@eeejay> surkov, it is in GNOME too
  208. # [15:12] <@surkov> eeejay: ATBillet? :)
  209. # [15:12] <@eeejay> surkov, *i* don't even get that, what is billet?
  210. # [15:13] <@surkov> options of the word are: blank, billet, provision, bar, curing
  211. # [15:13] <@surkov> it's a think you can use to create an AT
  212. # [15:13] <@eeejay> curing? like curing meat?
  213. # [15:13] <@surkov> it's just a russian word tranlation
  214. # [15:14] <@eeejay> ahh :)
  215. # [15:15] <@eeejay> davidb, we are debating the name for the top-level object in the js module
  216. # [15:15] <@eeejay> surkov, and tbsaunde are partial to jsAT. I think it is redundant (js?), and means nothing outside of an a11y context (AT?). this will be called from outside our module
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  218. # [15:16] <@eeejay> my suggestions were {Chrome,Content,Browser,Shell}Accessibility
  219. # [15:17] <@eeejay> surkov, how about AssistiveTechnology?
  220. # [15:18] <@surkov> eeejay: AT is a short name of AssistiveTEchnology
  221. # [15:18] <@surkov> and I like short names
  222. # [15:18] <@eeejay> surkov, i know. but it means a million other things outside of a11y
  223. # [15:19] <@surkov> well, there are a lot of used abbreviations used for different things and it doesn't prevent people to continue to use them. They are all context dependent and it appears that's ok
  224. # [15:19] <@eeejay> surkov, for internal names, i am all for brevity, but this is the one name that will be exposed outside our module. on one line.
  225. # [15:20] <@davidb> "Celeste"
  226. # [15:20] <@davidb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celeste_%28colour%29
  227. # [15:20] <@davidb> And rename it later :)
  228. # [15:21] <@eeejay> hard to argue with that
  229. # [15:21] <@surkov> it's cool but not descriptive at all
  230. # [15:23] <@davidb> ok, what is the purpose of the top-level object? what duties does it have?
  231. # [15:23] <@davidb> It provides an alternate interaction for the browser right?
  232. # [15:24] <@eeejay> davidb, surkov, in browser.js
  233. # [15:24] <@davidb> eeejay: ?
  234. # [15:24] <@eeejay> you would do Cu.import(...Foo.jsm);
  235. # [15:24] <@eeejay> and then Foo.attach(window);
  236. # [15:24] * @davidb listens
  237. # [15:24] <@eeejay> that is it
  238. # [15:25] <@davidb> "Foo" it is then!
  239. # [15:25] <@davidb> A11yFu
  240. # [15:25] <@eeejay> so this is the *only* public API in our js stack
  241. # [15:25] <@davidb> ah
  242. # [15:25] <@eeejay> i kinda like that
  243. # [15:25] <@davidb> A8eFu
  244. # [15:26] <@surkov> davidb: this object maintains the navigation and it knowns how announce, visual presentation (and other things like braille I believe), in other words, this objects is responsible for AT user interaction with mozilla products
  245. # [15:26] <@davidb> yeah
  246. # [15:26] <@eeejay> so for that one name, I don't want something ambiguous as AT (or A8eFu)
  247. # [15:26] <@davidb> right
  248. # [15:27] <@davidb> if we knew it was always about tts i can think of many names
  249. # [15:27] <@eeejay> I like AccessFu though, if everyone had a sense of humor
  250. # [15:27] <@eeejay> it ain't
  251. # [15:27] <@davidb> well we have a libpr0n
  252. # [15:28] <@eeejay> is it sfw to look at the code?
  253. # [15:28] <@davidb> heh
  254. # [15:28] <@davidb> oh i probably spelled it wrong
  255. # [15:28] <@davidb> no http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=libpr0n&find=&findi=&;filter=^[^\0]*%24&hitlimit=&tree=mozilla-central
  256. # [15:29] <@davidb> seems to have been removed mostly
  257. # [15:30] * @eeejay is becoming more and more partial to AccessFu
  258. # [15:31] <@eeejay> but i will wait a bit... let emotions calm
  259. # [15:31] <@davidb> that twitter name happens to be available
  260. # [15:31] <@eeejay> davidb, quick!
  261. # [15:31] <@davidb> nah
  262. # [15:32] <@davidb> Gnasher
  263. # [15:33] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
  264. # [15:33] <@davidb> surkov, eeejay: Celeste does sort of go with Gaia
  265. # [15:33] <@MarcoZ> I also think something less AT-ish would be good for naming this baby.
  266. # [15:33] <@davidb> hi MarcoZ!
  267. # [15:34] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, goodday!
  268. # [15:34] * @eeejay snagged AccessFu on twitter
  269. # [15:34] <@surkov> well, for API stuff I would use descriptive things
  270. # [15:35] <@davidb> i generally agree… how many customers of our API will there be?
  271. # [15:35] <@eeejay> davidb, eventually we will have this conversation again... when we need to determine what to call our "screen reader" in b2g
  272. # [15:35] <@davidb> Celeste
  273. # [15:36] <@davidb> :)
  274. # [15:36] <@eeejay> :)
  275. # [15:36] <@MarcoZ> :D
  276. # [15:37] <@eeejay> at least eyes-free is taken by tv
  277. # [15:37] <@davidb> too bad jaccess reminds me of jackass
  278. # [15:37] <@eeejay> thank gad
  279. # [15:37] <@davidb> haha
  280. # [15:38] <@davidb> what's is surkov's favorite?
  281. # [15:38] * shorlander_ is now known as shorlander
  282. # [15:39] <@surkov> dunno
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  284. # [15:40] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 742280 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  285. # [15:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742280 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, We need accessibility click events
  286. # [15:45] <@eeejay> bbiab
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  297. # [16:27] <@askalski> davidb, is there a team meeting?
  298. # [16:27] <@davidb> askalski: no
  299. # [16:28] <@askalski> davidb, ok, I am back to work then
  300. # [16:28] <@davidb> :)
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  313. # [16:55] <@davidb> surkov: what exactly is the inspect button? (bug 736418)
  314. # [16:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736418 nor, --, ---, paul, REOP, Hide the "Inspect" button from screen readers
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  317. # [16:58] <@surkov> davidb: it's just a button that allows you inspect the page by mouse
  318. # [16:58] <@surkov> just try it yourself
  319. # [16:58] <@davidb> where is it?
  320. # [16:58] <@davidb> i invoke inspect from the menu
  321. # [16:58] <@davidb> there is a little pointer button in the inspect bar - is that it?
  322. # [16:59] <@davidb> surkov: ^
  323. # [17:02] <@surkov> there's inspect button in the bar
  324. # [17:03] <@davidb> surkov: what does it look like?
  325. # [17:03] <@surkov> like a button having inspect label
  326. # [17:03] <@davidb> surkov: i don't see that in nightly
  327. # [17:03] <@davidb> i see a close box, a pointer graphic butting, an HTML button etc.
  328. # [17:04] <@davidb> butting/button
  329. # [17:04] <@davidb> surkov: on mac
  330. # [17:04] <@surkov> ok, I didn't look at mac
  331. # [17:04] <@davidb> surkov: do you see a button with an "Inspect" label to the right of the close box?
  332. # [17:05] <@surkov> davidb: oh, yes they changed it in nightly, it's a button with pointer
  333. # [17:06] <@davidb> ok
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  337. # [17:17] <@askalski> see you later everyone
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  339. # [17:20] <@MarcoZ> Morning hub!
  340. # [17:22] * Quits: jhk (jigneshhk1@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  341. # [17:24] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So, is this inspect tool really useful for screen reader users? Or does the button do something completely different than the "Inspect" item from an element's context menu?
  342. # [17:25] <@davidb> MarcoZ: the Inspect menu item invokes the inspector (mode). The button discussed on the bug is only part of that mode, namely the mouse-hover mode of inspect.
  343. # [17:25] <@davidb> Inspect should be completely usable by screen reader users eventually IMO.
  344. # [17:25] <@davidb> mouse hover mode, perhaps not.
  345. # [17:26] <@MarcoZ> I agree! It has the described problems, meaning that focus returns to the web content, and Inspect panel is not in the F6 nor in the tab order.
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  347. # [17:26] <@davidb> MarcoZ: from the context menu, Inspect launches inspect mode in non-mouseover mode.
  348. # [17:27] <@davidb> so the mouseover mode button is untoggled
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  350. # [17:29] <@surkov> tbsaunde: can help jhk to finish his proposal? I did several suggestion but now proposal is too short ;) and it's deep night for me now
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  354. # [17:34] <@surkov> davidb: probably you?
  355. # [17:34] <@davidb> surkov: i was thinking you
  356. # [17:34] <@davidb> i haven't looked as deep at UIA impl
  357. # [17:35] <@surkov> davidb: it's more about proposal
  358. # [17:35] <@surkov> how to make it looking nice
  359. # [17:35] <@davidb> surkov: in the first para, is it true "we cannot get a value or information about text like styles in it"?
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  361. # [17:36] <@surkov> davidb: I did some suggestion about abstract section how to improve it
  362. # [17:37] <@surkov> I hope jhk will fix it soon
  363. # [17:37] <@davidb> ok jhk once you have made corrections - ping me and i'll look - ok?
  364. # [17:37] <@surkov> he need to say why IAccessible2 doesn't always work for our needs
  365. # [17:38] <@davidb> because we IA2 (and COM) isn't guaranteed on all future Windows devices.
  366. # [17:38] <@surkov> yes, I said that too
  367. # [17:38] <@davidb> ok
  368. # [17:38] <@surkov> davidb: I said:
  369. # [17:38] <@surkov> surkov: jhk: you need to say that MS considers UIA as electronic curb cut effect so they use it not only for screen readers (like Narrator) but for everything else like windows speech recognition
  370. # [17:38] <@surkov> [2:53pm] surkov: otherwise IAccessible2 would be enough
  371. # [17:38] <@surkov> [2:54pm] surkov: also the future of MSAA is not clear on ARM devices where probably there's no COM so no MSAA no IA2 work and there's unique solution to keep browser accessible is implement UIA
  372. # [17:38] <@surkov> [2:55pm] surkov: also MS isn't going to bridge IA2 to UIA so if we want to run Firefox on Windows 8 Metro then we need UIA to keep platform accessible
  373. # [17:39] <@hub> hi
  374. # [17:39] <@davidb> surkov: ok
  375. # [17:39] <@surkov> hi, hub
  376. # [17:39] <@davidb> hi hub!
  377. # [17:39] <@surkov> davidb: when is deadline?
  378. # [17:40] <@davidb> April 06 at 19:00 UTC
  379. # [17:41] <@surkov> so we can polish it tomorrow then
  380. # [17:41] <@davidb> yep
  381. # [17:41] <@surkov> ok, davidb, tbsaunde and jhk, please work on it tonight, tomorrow I'll take a look again. Ok?
  382. # [17:41] <@davidb> yep - jhk ping me when updated please
  383. # [17:42] <@surkov> ok, then see you, guys, going to sleep
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  389. # [17:57] <jhk> davidb: yeah sure.
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  392. # [18:16] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 739612 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  393. # [18:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739612 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Cleanup A11y tests and test-suite organization
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  405. # [18:58] <jimm> davidb: ping
  406. # [18:58] <@davidb> jimm: ping
  407. # [18:58] <@davidb> pong even
  408. # [18:59] <jimm> hey, is there an open bug on implementing ui automation in moz accessibility?
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  410. # [19:03] <@davidb> jimm: I don't think we have one yet
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  413. # [19:04] <jimm> ok
  414. # [19:04] <jimm> so I've gained a pretty good understanding of how things work in metro.
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  416. # [19:05] <jimm> I haven't gotten far enough along to test what I'm doing but I think it'll work
  417. # [19:05] <jimm> basically taking our IAccessible, using that windows api function to wrap it with a uia provider, and hand that back to clients/metro
  418. # [19:06] <jimm> thing is though accessibility code will be on at all times
  419. # [19:06] <jimm> since metro is one of the clients
  420. # [19:06] <jimm> so if we have perf issues in the code..
  421. # [19:06] <jimm> we'd be interested in finding some solutions there
  422. # [19:06] <jimm> I was wondering if we might be able to do a slimmed down uia provider that only exposed certain elements like text edits
  423. # [19:07] <jimm> as a work around if perf is a big issue
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  425. # [19:33] <@davidb> jimm: maybe
  426. # [19:33] * @davidb is on a phone meeting
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  430. # [19:49] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 740750 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  431. # [19:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740750 nor, --, ---, junky.argonaut, ASSI, Use nsITreeView* instead of nsCOMPtr<nsITreeView> as followup to bug#739524
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  434. # [20:10] <@davidb> eeejay: do you use Components.lookupMethod?
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  446. # [21:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so, re perf issues do we have any real idea what the current state is? especially when uia is in use?
  447. # [21:42] <@davidb> tbsaunde: "slow"
  448. # [21:42] <@davidb> but I haven't checked first hand, especially regarding uia usage or not
  449. # [21:44] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok
  450. # [21:45] <@tbsaunde> davidb: any chance we can get tlos to measure this somehow?
  451. # [21:45] <@davidb> tbsaunde: that's too slow
  452. # [21:45] <@davidb> i mean getting a talos landed and in production can be slow
  453. # [21:45] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not sure what you mean by that
  454. # [21:46] <@davidb> see above
  455. # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> davidb: couldn't we just run the dom talos with a11y on?
  456. # [21:46] <@davidb> oh!
  457. # [21:46] <@davidb> I was assuming you were thinking of our speech rec goal
  458. # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> might not be perfect, but would probably do for tree update issues, and maybe events atleast
  459. # [21:46] <@davidb> tbsaunde: dom talos is an interesting idea
  460. # [21:46] <@davidb> yeah
  461. # [21:47] <@davidb> can you have a look at what they currently test?
  462. # [21:47] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I gues I can try to figure it out
  463. # [21:47] <@davidb> or ask around
  464. # [21:48] <@tbsaunde> I could probably also do a try push with a11y forced on and see what happens
  465. # [21:53] <@davidb> jimm: we should discuss the slimmed down uia provider somewhere… either a bug or dev-accessibility or something
  466. # [21:54] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yep
  467. # [21:54] * @davidb is reviewing jhk's GSoC
  468. # [21:58] <jimm> davidb: what's slow about accessability? events maybe?
  469. # [21:59] <jimm> how does the lib hook into dom?
  470. # [21:59] <@davidb> jimm: yeah it could be events and coalesence
  471. # [21:59] <@davidb> jimm: we listen to mutations
  472. # [22:00] <@davidb> tbsaunde: jump in as you wish
  473. # [22:00] <jimm> mutations are events triggered when content changes dynamcially? (like through script manipulation?)
  474. # [22:01] <@tbsaunde> I'm honestly not sure what is slow, but I think we really need to find out what exactly is slow
  475. # [22:01] <@tbsaunde> jimm: yes, we do get called for that sort of thing both using dom events and direct calls from layout
  476. # [22:02] <@tbsaunde> getting rid of the dom events stuff is probably a good idea and probably fairly doable
  477. # [22:02] <jimm> do we listen to everything, or just the elements we cares about?
  478. # [22:03] <jimm> *care
  479. # [22:03] <@tbsaunde> jimm: well, its the old dom events api so I think we end up getting called for each event of the types we listen to on every document
  480. # [22:05] <jimm> I guess I'll have to dig into it to understand more.
  481. # [22:05] <@tbsaunde> yeah, or talk to Alex, I'm only sort of familiar with that code
  482. # [22:05] <jimm> davidb: fyi I'm trying to get UiaProviderFromIAccessible working with our accessible object. Unfortunately so far no luck.
  483. # [22:05] <@tbsaunde> most of it was written before me and hasn't reaally been changed
  484. # [22:05] <jimm> not sure what's up.
  485. # [22:06] <jimm> tbsaunde: time for an upgrade!
  486. # [22:06] <@tbsaunde> yeah, some of it atleast should be rewritten
  487. # [22:07] <@tbsaunde> the custom DOM eevents for xul trees in particular is crazy
  488. # [22:20] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-9542A19B.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  489. # [22:21] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-9542A19B.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  490. # [22:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I just did a try push that should have all talos sweets with a11y forced on
  491. # [22:22] <@davidb> nice
  492. # [22:22] <@davidb> tbsaunde: that will just give us a baseline right?
  493. # [22:23] <@davidb> i guess it will tell us how different things are
  494. # [22:23] <@davidb> ?
  495. # [22:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd think so, or atleast how different things are according to talos
  496. # [22:23] <@davidb> ok
  497. # [22:23] * Joins: mike5w3c (MikeS@moz-DAFE1A45.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  498. # [22:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=00d90cc9da61
  499. # [22:25] <@davidb> jimm: you can see some of our observers here http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/base/nsDocAccessible.cpp#180
  500. # [22:25] <@davidb> we queue events up and run off the refresh driver
  501. # [22:25] <@davidb> we get content inserted called directly from layout
  502. # [22:26] <@davidb> (and content removed)
  503. # [22:26] <@davidb> that's so we can cache text IIRC
  504. # [22:26] <@davidb> although we cache text on our side now - i need to refresh myself on this
  505. # [22:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: nice trick
  506. # [22:27] <jimm> wow
  507. # [22:28] <@davidb> we're very snoopy
  508. # [22:28] <jimm> it would ne nice if we could filter these through some sort of top level setting.
  509. # [22:28] <@davidb> agreed
  510. # [22:28] <@davidb> it is a matter of making that work a priority
  511. # [22:29] <jimm> win8 work may well help to do that.
  512. # [22:29] <@davidb> and UIA might be the right timing
  513. # [22:29] <@davidb> yeah
  514. # [22:29] <@davidb> a 'forcing function' as they say
  515. # [22:31] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well, I saw that dumping grround before sometime and just used it :)
  516. # [22:31] <@tbsaunde> yeah, there's all sorts of things we can optimize
  517. # [22:32] <@tbsaunde> uia has some sort of interface for asking what events we need to emit which should help too
  518. # [22:32] <@tbsaunde> jimm: note we also listen to some events in nsRootAccessible.cpp
  519. # [22:33] <@davidb> tbsaunde: don't want to take you off topic here but before I forget, can you have a look at bug 708927 sometime this week?
  520. # [22:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708927 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent test_focus_menu.xul | Test timed out, sometimes followed by tens of thousands of gA11yE
  521. # [22:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: the idea that implementing uia could help in enviroments without COM seems odd to me iven we implement uia as a pile of COM
  522. # [22:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: I don't know the details of how UIA would work on arm yet
  523. # [22:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I guss? why that one in particular?
  524. # [22:35] <@davidb> tbsaunde: 3 robot comments today… i think we need to stop the bleeding - maybe even consider turning off for linux
  525. # [22:35] <@tbsaunde> davidb: neither do I of course, but it seems like no COM would be both crazy and just screw us whatever we do with uia
  526. # [22:36] <@tbsaunde> davidb: 3 isn't *that* bad ook at bug 694772 :/
  527. # [22:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694772 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent WinXP mochitest-plain-4 | leaked 3280 bytes during test execution (1 BackstagePass, 2 M
  528. # [22:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: is philer complaining? or because staring three test failures doesn't seem too terrible
  529. # [22:37] <@davidb> i just don't like contributing to oranges becoming meaningless
  530. # [22:37] <@davidb> no he doesn't complain
  531. # [22:40] <@tbsaunde> fiar
  532. # [22:40] <@tbsaunde> *fair
  533. # [22:41] <@davidb> tbsaunde: surkov might have a spidey sense about it - i think it relates to the tree update lifecycle goal we dropped last quarter
  534. # [22:42] <@davidb> jimm: can you itemize the limited set of what you need for the soft keyboard etc?
  535. # [22:44] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok
  536. # [22:44] <jimm> davidb: once I get there.
  537. # [22:44] <@davidb> groovy
  538. # [22:48] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  539. # [22:48] * @davidb steps away
  540. # [22:54] * Quits: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  541. # [23:17] * Joins: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-829BEFC9.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  542. # [23:24] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 612328 on bug 740696.
  543. # [23:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740696 nor, P1, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] we have children that are expired.
  544. # [23:31] * reuben is now known as Guest
  545. # [23:43] <@davidb> that bug summary makes me sad
  546. # [23:44] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@471D72E.2257F909.F30C9E9E.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  547. # [23:44] <fxa90id> :(
  548. # [23:48] * Guest is now known as reuben
  549. # Session Close: Thu Apr 05 00:00:00 2012

The end :)