/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-04-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Apr 17 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:17] * Joins: brambles (brambles@4CBAB088.F3076E90.1822ACA6.IP)
  4. # [00:24] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 615491 on bug 712924.
  5. # [00:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712924 nor, P2, mozilla14, hub, NEW, [Mac] li elements inside an ul element are announced as "list box"
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  7. # [00:40] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 745981 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  8. # [00:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745981 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Switching to a tab without a set virtual cursor raises an error
  9. # [00:41] <satdav> hey guys can we get https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/accessibility that on the topic if possible
  10. # [00:41] <satdav> as its the general accessibility list
  11. # [00:41] * hub changes topic to '"build the web for everyone" | release schedule: http://mzl.la/LNc0W | accessibility list https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/accessibility'
  12. # [00:41] <@hub> like that?
  13. # [00:41] <satdav> thanks hub
  14. # [00:42] <satdav> sign up for it if you are not
  15. # [00:42] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 615501 on bug 745981.
  16. # [00:42] <@hub> satdav: I'm already on it
  17. # [00:42] <satdav> cool
  18. # [00:42] <satdav> hub, will pm you the now regarding it
  19. # [00:44] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 745982 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  20. # [00:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745982 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Move BORDER_PADDING to VisualPresenter
  21. # [00:45] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 615503 on bug 745982.
  22. # [00:47] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 745986 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  23. # [00:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745986 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Display page loading states
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  35. # [02:01] <@surkov> hi, hub
  36. # [02:04] <@hub> hey
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  44. # [02:31] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 615556 on bug 743680.
  45. # [02:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743680 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, don't export nsARIAMap.h
  46. # [02:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 615458 on bug 739191.
  47. # [02:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739191 nor, --, ---, xph9753, ASSI, get rid nsAccUtils::GetDocAccessibleFor(const nsIPresShell* aPresShell)
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  57. # [03:44] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 615584 on bug 739882.
  58. # [03:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739882 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, decomtaminate getting row and column count on accessible tables
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  70. # [05:14] <@surkov> eeejay: around?
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  90. # [07:38] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 739191 from --- to mozilla14.
  91. # [07:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739191 nor, --, mozilla14, xph9753, ASSI, get rid nsAccUtils::GetDocAccessibleFor(const nsIPresShell* aPresShell)
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  96. # [08:14] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 615584 on bug 739882.
  97. # [08:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739882 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, decomtaminate getting row and column count on accessible tables
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  100. # [08:44] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 615491 on bug 712924.
  101. # [08:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712924 nor, P2, mozilla14, hub, NEW, [Mac] li elements inside an ul element are announced as "list box"
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  103. # [09:04] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 739498 from mozilla14 to ---.
  104. # [09:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739498 nor, --, ---, eitan, RESO FIXED, Add Javascript layer for mobile accessibility
  105. # [09:04] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 739498 from --- to mozilla14.
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  107. # [09:08] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 615501 on bug 745981.
  108. # [09:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745981 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Switching to a tab without a set virtual cursor raises an error
  109. # [09:15] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 615503 on bug 745982.
  110. # [09:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745982 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Move BORDER_PADDING to VisualPresenter
  111. # [09:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 615626 on bug 733848.
  112. # [09:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 733848 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  113. # [09:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733848 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Intermittent failures in a11y/accessible/name/test_markup.html | Can't get accessible for [object HT
  114. # [09:57] <Mark_Capella> surkov: Good Morning
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  117. # [10:06] <@surkov> hello, Mark_Capella
  118. # [10:06] <Mark_Capella> surkov: have you been busy? You havent been talking much?
  119. # [10:07] <@surkov> when? :)
  120. # [10:07] <Mark_Capella> last few days ... maybe I just missed you
  121. # [10:07] <@surkov> perhaps timezones
  122. # [10:07] <Mark_Capella> yah ...
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  124. # [10:08] <Mark_Capella> surkov: did you see i reposted the GetName Densify patch? I had forgotten to HG Qrefresh thats why you didnt see my last changes
  125. # [10:08] <@surkov> yeah, I'm looking at it
  126. # [10:08] <Mark_Capella> :) O! Cool!
  127. # [10:17] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 615318 on bug 740747.
  128. # [10:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740747 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, dexpcom nsAccessible::GetName
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  133. # [10:38] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 746084 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  134. # [10:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746084 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, provide extended logging for a11y module
  135. # [10:51] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 615626 on bug 733848.
  136. # [10:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733848 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Intermittent failures in a11y/accessible/name/test_markup.html | Can't get accessible for [object HT
  137. # [10:58] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 733848 from --- to mozilla14.
  138. # [11:00] <@surkov> MarcoZ: can you steal review from tbsaunde in bug 743680?
  139. # [11:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743680 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, don't export nsARIAMap.h
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  151. # [12:01] <@firebot> bugs@pettay.fi granted review for attachment 615556 on bug 743680.
  152. # [12:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743680 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, don't export nsARIAMap.h
  153. # [12:22] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 615642 on bug 740747.
  154. # [12:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740747 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, dexpcom nsAccessible::GetName
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  164. # [13:41] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 615664 on bug 739882.
  165. # [13:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739882 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, decomtaminate getting row and column count on accessible tables
  166. # [13:44] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
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  172. # [14:31] <Mark_Capella> waves @ marcoz
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  175. # [14:40] <Mark_Capella> surkov: got your ears on?
  176. # [14:40] <@surkov> sure
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  178. # [14:40] <Mark_Capella> can i ask you to do a quick read of Bug 739568 - nsXULTreeGridRowAccesible should cache
  179. # [14:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739568 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, nsXULTreeGridRowAccesible should cache its kids as nsXULTreeGridCellAccessibles not generic accessib
  180. # [14:41] <@surkov> ok
  181. # [14:46] <Mark_Capella> yah, not sure my c++ is up to that yet
  182. # [14:48] <Mark_Capella> well, let me read that a few more times ... do some research
  183. # [14:51] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 745740 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  184. # [14:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745740 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, De-ns-ify nsApplicationAccessible
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  186. # [15:00] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Hi! Do you have an idea why the a11y Mochitests do currently not work on the Mac?
  187. # [15:01] <@surkov> MarcoZ: do you mean tbox machines (no idea)?
  188. # [15:03] <fxa90id> hi
  189. # [15:04] <fxa90id> surkov, I have a question
  190. # [15:05] <@surkov> fxa90id: hi, sure
  191. # [15:05] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Yes. Because I think that's the only thing keeping us from turning on a11y for OS X builds on tbox machines right now.
  192. # [15:05] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 678429 from ASSIGNED to NEW.
  193. # [15:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678429 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, implement weak reference for accessible objects
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  195. # [15:05] <@surkov> MarcoZ: do they pass nowadays ?
  196. # [15:06] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I'm just building and will find out afterwards.
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  198. # [15:08] <@surkov> ok
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  200. # [15:13] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I believe the tests would theoretically pass, but they were not even starting last time we tried.
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  203. # [15:24] <@MarcoZ> Heyo davidb!
  204. # [15:24] <@davidb> hi - gotta install updates
  205. # [15:24] * @davidb does that
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  210. # [15:33] <@davidb> heyo
  211. # [15:34] <@tbsaunde> hi
  212. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> Hi tbsaunde!
  213. # [15:34] <@tbsaunde> hi MarcoZ
  214. # [15:34] * @tbsaunde seems to be terrible at not getting distracted as usual
  215. # [15:37] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP)
  216. # [15:38] <@firebot> michaljev@o2.pl requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 615689 on bug 727722.
  217. # [15:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727722 nor, --, ---, michaljev, NEW, Create an accessible for HTML table row by frame
  218. # [15:40] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  219. # [15:43] <@MarcoZ> surkov: So the tests *appear* to be running.
  220. # [15:44] <@surkov> good to hear
  221. # [15:44] <@surkov> MarcoZ: do we have a bug?
  222. # [15:44] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Taking a stab at seeing where the tests currently are on Mac.
  223. # [15:44] <@surkov> iirc there was something
  224. # [15:44] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Yes we do, but I don't remember off-hand.
  225. # [15:44] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Hub filed it.
  226. # [15:45] <@davidb> what are we talking about?
  227. # [15:45] <@surkov> running mochitest on os x
  228. # [15:45] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Getting the Mochitests running and passing on OS X again.
  229. # [15:45] <@surkov> on tbox machines
  230. # [15:46] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Because if that's out of the way, I'd like to have a11y enabled on the accessibility branch ASAP, and at the beginning of next cycle on central, if possible.
  231. # [15:46] <@davidb> sounds excellent
  232. # [15:46] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-585D5EFC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  233. # [15:46] <@davidb> hub and I were discussing this
  234. # [15:46] * Joins: aaronlev (aaronlev@moz-26EA018F.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  235. # [15:48] <@MarcoZ> surkov: davidb: So it got stuck on the docload test.
  236. # [15:48] <@tbsaunde> its not clear to me why we need to hve tests passing before we change the defaults in configure
  237. # [15:48] <@MarcoZ> It opened the document, but didn't close it again.
  238. # [15:49] <@davidb> we should ask hub
  239. # [15:49] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Because if we make the changes in configure and the a11y tests don't pass, Mac will be perma-orange.
  240. # [15:49] <@davidb> (hi aaronlev)
  241. # [15:49] <@davidb> heyo Mark_Capella
  242. # [15:49] <@tbsaunde> we can't start ding test jobs on opt osx until they pass, but enabling building a11y doesn't require that we start running those jobs
  243. # [15:49] <Mark_Capella> heyo!
  244. # [15:50] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: AFAIK, this goes hand in hand right now.
  245. # [15:50] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: no it won't until we tell releng to turn on running tests in mochitest-o
  246. # [15:50] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: I don't think that is correct
  247. # [15:51] <@tbsaunde> running tests requires building a11y of course, but scheduling jobs isn't automatic if a11y is built
  248. # [15:51] <@tbsaunde> but its easy enough to find out
  249. # [15:52] <@surkov> MarcoZ: you can file patches to disable certain tests under mac
  250. # [15:52] <@surkov> to get them running
  251. # [15:52] <@surkov> and file bugs to investigate the issue
  252. # [15:52] <aaronlev> MarcoZ: Herzlichen Glückwunsch, ein Tag zu spät
  253. # [15:53] <@MarcoZ> surkov: I just restarted the test run because it kept hanging. And what I see is that this thing is running very very slowly. On Windows, it takes at most 2 minutes for he tests to finish, on the Mac, I was over 10 minutes, and was only at the events/context menu testing thing.
  254. # [15:53] <@firebot> michaljev@o2.pl cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 615689 on bug 727722.
  255. # [15:53] <@firebot> michaljev@o2.pl requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 615694 on bug 727722.
  256. # [15:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727722 nor, --, ---, michaljev, NEW, Create an accessible for HTML table row by frame
  257. # [15:53] <@surkov> interesting
  258. # [15:53] <@MarcoZ> aaronlev: Thank you!
  259. # [15:53] <@MarcoZ> aaronlev: And BTW, two days, it was on the 15th. ;)
  260. # [15:54] <aaronlev> heh
  261. # [15:56] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Yeah, I'll leave it running in the background for a while and see how far it comes.
  262. # [15:57] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 615694 on bug 727722.
  263. # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> so, is there a reason we don't just push the change to configure to accessibility and see what happens?
  264. # [16:08] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: First, I need to find out where that change is made nowadays. They revamped all the mozconfigs, yet again.
  265. # [16:12] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  266. # [16:13] <@MarcoZ> OK, this one terminated right in the middle of actions/test_general.html, probably due to a crash.
  267. # [16:13] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: you change the default in configure.in
  268. # [16:13] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: hub put a patch on a bug
  269. # [16:14] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Due to all those changes that happened to the build system recently, that patch is probably no longer valid/needs rebasing.
  270. # [16:15] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: mybe, but its a one line edit, so shouldn't take more than 5 seconds to do
  271. # [16:15] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Do you remember the bug number?
  272. # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Does it bother anyone if the accessibility branch went orange permanently for a while? Or can we basically mess with it all we want?
  273. # [16:16] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: not off hand
  274. # [16:17] <@davidb> we can do whatever we like with it
  275. # [16:19] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: I didn't look for the bug, but I just "wrote" the patch again http://paste.debian.net/163528/
  276. # [16:19] <@tbsaunde> its actually more than a line since I can remove some stuff, but still
  277. # [16:20] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 729154 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  278. # [16:20] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 729154 to FIXED.
  279. # [16:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=729154 nor, --, mozilla14, dbolter, RESO FIXED, Telemetry for a11y instantiation by unknown cause.
  280. # [16:20] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 741699 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  281. # [16:20] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 741699 to FIXED.
  282. # [16:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741699 nor, --, mozilla14, maxli, RESO FIXED, telemetry for uiautomation.dll
  283. # [16:22] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Thanks!
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  285. # [16:23] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: np
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  294. # [16:56] <@MarcoZ> surkov: davidb: OK, it times out in events/test_browserui.xul, after it first times out in the docload thing and I have to close the window manually for it to complete. I feel it has something to do with document loading not being told to a11y APIs on OS X.
  295. # [16:56] * Quits: logbot (logbot@moz-622AFC27.glob.com.au) (Ping timeout)
  296. # [16:57] <@surkov> MarcoZ: there's no known orange for that?
  297. # [16:57] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Have not seen any in either of those files.
  298. # [16:57] <@surkov> ok
  299. # [16:57] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Moreover, the doclad ne is reprducible at least n my machine. Three times in a rw.
  300. # [16:58] <@MarcoZ> surkov: dclad ne.
  301. # [16:58] <@surkov> ok
  302. # [16:58] <@surkov> so makes sense to disable them on mac
  303. # [16:58] <@MarcoZ> surkov: doc load one.
  304. # [16:59] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net changed the Status on bug 739191 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  305. # [16:59] * Joins: logbot (logbot@moz-622AFC27.glob.com.au)
  306. # [16:59] <@firebot> mak77@bonardo.net set the Resolution field on bug 739191 to FIXED.
  307. # [16:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739191 nor, --, mozilla14, xph9753, RESO FIXED, get rid nsAccUtils::GetDocAccessibleFor(const nsIPresShell* aPresShell)
  308. # [17:07] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
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  310. # [17:25] <@MarcoZ> surkov: OK, it actually hangs at the contextmenu test and times out with a terminal ending when it waits for the context menu to appear to do the "escape key" test. This is when it finally dies. But it has another timeout in the events/test_autocomplete.xul test and one in the test_focus_browserui.xul files.
  311. # [17:26] <@surkov> there's a bunch of them :)
  312. # [17:26] <@MarcoZ> surkov: In addition, there are some test failures in the bounds/test_zoom.html file, where the height of a paragraph and the relevant y coordinate are not reported correctly. One is the rounded, the other is the unrounded value (decimal digits). I'll file bugs and post the relevant portions of the log files.
  313. # [17:27] <@surkov> yes, please
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  321. # [17:34] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 746160 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  322. # [17:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746160 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Meta] Various new Mac a11y Mochitest failures
  323. # [17:40] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 746164 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  324. # [17:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746164 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Failure for the shortcut keys in actions/test_keys.html b/accessible/tests/mochitest/actions/test_ke
  325. # [17:44] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 615727 on bug 746164.
  326. # [17:44] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 746164 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  327. # [17:47] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 746168 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  328. # [17:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746168 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Wrong font referenced in attributes/test_text.html for the cursive test
  329. # [17:47] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 615727 on bug 746164.
  330. # [17:48] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 615729 on bug 746168.
  331. # [17:48] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 746168 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  332. # [17:53] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 615729 on bug 746168.
  333. # [17:53] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 746176 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  334. # [17:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746176 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Various height and y coordinate failures in bounds/test_zoom.html
  335. # [17:53] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  336. # [17:57] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 746177 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  337. # [17:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746177 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Test timeout in events/test_autocomplete.xul when testing the Yahoo! search field.
  338. # [18:00] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 746178 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  339. # [18:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746178 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, test timeout in events/test_focus_browserui.xul
  340. # [18:01] <@firebot> joe@drew.ca changed the Component on bug 745514 from General to Disability Access APIs.
  341. # [18:01] <@firebot> joe@drew.ca changed the Product on bug 745514 from Firefox to Core.
  342. # [18:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745514 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, viewing large png image in firefox crashes Xserver
  343. # [18:02] <@firebot> joe@drew.ca changed the Component on bug 745514 from Disability Access APIs to Widget: Gtk.
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  345. # [18:05] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 746183 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  346. # [18:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746183 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Unexpected termination of complete test run in events/test_focus_contextmenu.xul
  347. # [18:08] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Done for now.
  348. # [18:08] <@surkov> MarcoZ: ok, cool
  349. # [18:08] <@surkov> nice work
  350. # [18:08] <@MarcoZ> surkov: and I'd like to hand the last three to you since I have no means to debug those.
  351. # [18:09] <@surkov> ok
  352. # [18:09] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Thanks!
  353. # [18:14] * Joins: Bryen (Bryen@AD869AA5.7763354F.AD565587.IP)
  354. # [18:14] <Bryen> Whoo hoo! I'm in da channel!
  355. # [18:18] <@hub> Bryen: yes you are. for all your firefox a11y woes :-)
  356. # [18:19] <Bryen> hehe thanks hub :-)
  357. # [18:19] <Bryen> so let me repeat the question I asked hub a while ago and see if anyone can give some insight before I know how to file the bug properly...
  358. # [18:20] <Bryen> I use FF by changing background to black and font to white. The problem is when I do that, many sites do not display images.
  359. # [18:20] <Bryen> I have a sample here at http://bryen.com/susestudio/ which shows buttons only visible when I revert to allow site to display its own colors
  360. # [18:21] <Bryen> As a low-vision user extremely sensitive to white glare, this makes many sites unusable.
  361. # [18:22] <Bryen> and I'm hesitant to blame davidb for all my woes
  362. # [18:22] <Bryen> (thought that was a good way to grab his attention hehe)
  363. # [18:24] <@hub> Bryen: if blaming davidb does not work, you can blame Canada :-)
  364. # [18:25] * Joins: andym (andym@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
  365. # [18:25] <Bryen> do I have to learn the Canadian national anthem first before I do that?
  366. # [18:25] <@hub> Bryen: no
  367. # [18:25] <Bryen> whew
  368. # [18:26] <@hub> we are nice people
  369. # [18:27] <Bryen> Sure, we just forget Canada exists, down here in the US :-)
  370. # [18:27] <@hub> and apologize in advance for the treatment you might endure at our borders. they just try to emulate the south :-)
  371. # [18:28] <Bryen> well we have a legitimate concern that you guys might force our bacon to become Canadian bacon
  372. # [18:32] <Bryen> hub, As near as I can tell, without having html expertise, images that don't appear are actually some form of html image rather than a .png image or something like that.
  373. # [18:32] <Bryen> Although I've encountered standard graphic images that won't show up either out there.
  374. # [18:32] <@hub> Bryen: but not being able to see the source HTML makes it hard to diagnose
  375. # [18:33] <Bryen> ok let me find an page that doesn't require a log in hang on...
  376. # [18:36] <Bryen> hub, http://www.opensuse.org/en/ is an example. Do you want screenshots to accompany this?
  377. # [18:36] <@hub> it is done in ccs
  378. # [18:36] <@hub> css
  379. # [18:37] <Bryen> so is it a bad implementation of CSS or FF?
  380. # [18:38] <@hub> not saying that
  381. # [18:38] <@hub> how do you change the colors?
  382. # [18:38] <Bryen> Preferences > Content > Colors
  383. # [18:39] <Bryen> within that pop-up window, there's an option to allow pages to choose their own colors. I have to check this box several times a day. And then squint like hell :-)
  384. # [18:41] <@hub> ew
  385. # [18:41] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  386. # [18:41] <Bryen> ew on so many levels :-)
  387. # [18:42] <@hub> shouldn't you OS invert colors for you?
  388. # [18:42] <@hub> </troll>
  389. # [18:43] <@hub> but yeah if I swap the colors it fails to display images
  390. # [18:43] <@hub> I'm sure this is a bug in the CSS
  391. # [18:43] <Bryen> hub, Well I do have high-contrast inversion on my desktop but that doesn't apply within an application like FF
  392. # [18:44] <@hub> bummer. I wonder if it is a bug here or deliberate
  393. # [18:44] <Bryen> problem is, now as you point out its a CSS thing, what am I supposed to do? File a bug to every website around the world that has this problem? (lots have it)
  394. # [18:44] <@hub> davidb or surkov should know more
  395. # [18:44] <Bryen> ok
  396. # [18:44] <@hub> file a bug to us then
  397. # [18:45] * Bryen prepares for his first ever Mozilla bug filing...
  398. # [18:49] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@DD69D9E4.55CAE15D.34044A7F.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  399. # [18:51] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 746164 from --- to mozilla14.
  400. # [18:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746164 nor, --, mozilla14, marco.zehe, ASSI, Failure for the shortcut keys in actions/test_keys.html b/accessible/tests/mochitest/actions/test_ke
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  402. # [18:53] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 746168 from --- to mozilla14.
  403. # [18:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746168 nor, --, mozilla14, marco.zehe, ASSI, Wrong font referenced in attributes/test_text.html for the cursive test
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  405. # [18:57] <@MarcoZ> OK, more to come tomorrow. I'll disable the ones that are currently causing timeouts etc. locally and then continue to find ones that fail that I can fix. :) And I'll be happy to do reviews for surkov and others for those tests. :)
  406. # [18:57] * Joins: richardschwerdtfeger (richardsch@moz-773B11CB.telbonet.an)
  407. # [18:57] <@MarcoZ> See you all tomorrow!
  408. # [18:58] <@MarcoZ> Hub: Before I leave: I filed bug 746160 and dependent ones for current test failures I see in our mochitests. Two I've fixed, the others I've asked Surkov to takea look since I have no idea what might be going on, and I can't debug this with a screen reader.
  409. # [18:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746160 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Meta] Various new Mac a11y Mochitest failures
  410. # [18:58] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Target Milestone on bug 745982 from --- to mozilla14.
  411. # [18:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745982 nor, --, mozilla14, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Move BORDER_PADDING to VisualPresenter
  412. # [18:58] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Target Milestone on bug 745981 from --- to mozilla14.
  413. # [18:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745981 nor, --, mozilla14, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Switching to a tab without a set virtual cursor raises an error
  414. # [18:59] * Quits: @MarcoZ (Daily@moz-58431EF4.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: See you tomorrow!)
  415. # [19:06] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
  416. # [19:06] <clown> Bryen, hub: possilble explanation for your problem — the images on the page are background images. When you force the background to black and override the page styles, then you are effectively erasing the images.
  417. # [19:07] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  418. # [19:08] <Bryen> clown, That's the interpretation I had in my mind as well.
  419. # [19:08] <Bryen> question is, how do we solve that? How doe we get FF to say "Ok he meant the overall background, not every image background."
  420. # [19:09] <clown> Bryen: right. if that's the case, then technically it's not a browser bug, but authoring bug.
  421. # [19:09] <Bryen> clown, and that sounds like I have to poke all the websites in the world that have this issue
  422. # [19:09] <Bryen> assuming I know an image is erased, that is. :-)
  423. # [19:09] <clown> well, I suppose you could have setting that means, "the background should be black generally, but not where there are background images."
  424. # [19:10] <Bryen> clown, I'm about to click to file the bug on mozilla. Can you make these comments there?
  425. # [19:10] <clown> sure can, Bryen'
  426. # [19:10] <Bryen> as I know a number of people who use these settings, and I am certain this annoys more than just me, the issue has to be rather serious
  427. # [19:11] <@firebot> New Firefox - Disability Access bug 746205 filed by a11yrocks@bryen.com.
  428. # [19:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746205 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, CSS issues render color selection in FF useless
  429. # [19:11] <Bryen> whoo hoo! I love it when bots do that!
  430. # [19:19] <@hub> clown: yes they are background images. I checked.
  431. # [19:21] <Bryen> Do background images get a unique distinction from "standard" backgrounds?
  432. # [19:23] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  433. # [19:25] <@hub> Bryen: they are part of the CSS. how I see it is that you override the background property but setting custom colors
  434. # [19:25] <@hub> this include the images
  435. # [19:25] * @davidb is occupied but URL drops http://dojotoolkit.org/community/a11yHighContrastMode
  436. # [19:25] <@davidb> "With high contrast mode turned on, all background colors are mapped to the high contrast background color and all foreground colors are mapped to the high contrast scheme foreground color. This includes all colors specified via CSS stylesheets, directly via the style attribute or inherited. In addition, all background images specified via CSS are turned off."
  437. # [19:25] <clown> yes, davidb, this is releated to high contrast mode, but not quite the same.
  438. # [19:25] <@davidb> so there might be some bogus detection in js out there
  439. # [19:26] <@davidb> clown: ok
  440. # [19:26] * @davidb scurries off
  441. # [19:27] <@hub> ok, gotta run to the office. see you in a bit
  442. # [19:28] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net) (Ping timeout)
  443. # [19:29] * Quits: logbot (logbot@moz-622AFC27.glob.com.au) (Client exited)
  444. # [19:29] * Joins: logbot (logbot@moz-622AFC27.glob.com.au)
  445. # [19:30] * Joins: Mic|web (Mibbit@moz-5D79243.bibliothek.uni-wuerzburg.de)
  446. # [19:31] * clown didn't mean to scare davidb away.
  447. # [19:35] <Bryen> clown, ahh... davidb can be a scaredy-cat sometimes :-)
  448. # [19:36] <Bryen> but since he helped me impress my gf by getting her a Mozilla shirt, I can't complain about him :-)
  449. # [19:37] <clown> he got her one too??? and here I thought I was special… *sigh*
  450. # [19:39] <Bryen> no no no...
  451. # [19:39] <Bryen> he gave it to me to give to her. I didn't want her falling for him
  452. # [19:41] <clown> :-)
  453. # [19:48] * Joins: hub (hub@21B7B9F2.B87E9213.6E712CE2.IP)
  454. # [19:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  455. # [19:52] * ehsan is now known as ehsan|extremely-busy
  456. # [20:19] * Quits: Mark_Capella (chatzilla@moz-DD0C7E4F.twcny.res.rr.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0a2/20120405042010])
  457. # [20:20] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
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  459. # [20:26] * Joins: richardschwerdtfeger (richardsch@moz-F2EDA926.telbonet.an)
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  461. # [20:27] <Mark_Capella> tbsaunde: got your ears on?
  462. # [20:27] <Mark_Capella> davidb: or you?
  463. # [20:28] <@davidb> Mark_Capella: yep
  464. # [20:29] <Mark_Capella> im looking at this memory reporter bug tbsaunde pointed me to ... what does it mean you must have "accessibility enabled"
  465. # [20:29] <@davidb> Mark_Capella: probably 'instantiated"
  466. # [20:29] <@davidb> since our whole engine is lazily instantiated
  467. # [20:29] <@davidb> fires up when an API call happens
  468. # [20:30] <Mark_Capella> external access via a toolit or screen reader or such?
  469. # [20:30] <Mark_Capella> DOMinspector would do it?
  470. # [20:33] <Mark_Capella> yah that seems to do it
  471. # [20:33] <@davidb> yes. yes.
  472. # [20:33] <Mark_Capella> my little about:memory addon blew out the about:memory page
  473. # [20:33] <Mark_Capella> :)
  474. # [20:34] <@davidb> haha!
  475. # [20:34] <Mark_Capella> hey its better than being ignored!
  476. # [20:34] <@davidb> progress
  477. # [20:34] <Mark_Capella> successfully failed "P
  478. # [20:38] <Mark_Capella> coffee break ... mull it over
  479. # [20:45] <Mic|web> Hi! Does anyone know how to view the "label" property of a richlistitem with DOMi? I created one as textual representation of the item and want to check the result.
  480. # [20:45] <Mic|web> Too bad I can't figure out how to do that with DOMi :(
  481. # [20:57] * Quits: Mic|web (Mibbit@moz-5D79243.bibliothek.uni-wuerzburg.de) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  482. # [21:10] * Quits: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-55B4421D.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Connection reset by peer)
  483. # [21:50] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested approval-mozilla-central from the wind for attachment 615491 on bug 712924.
  484. # [21:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=712924 nor, P2, mozilla14, hub, NEW, [Mac] li elements inside an ul element are announced as "list box"
  485. # [21:52] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-6F22CAC7.e7jvsoe-gw.cust.sover.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
  486. # [22:03] <@hub> Bryen: expecting something from ubuntu to go upstream.... I think that's a dream
  487. # [22:07] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  488. # [22:08] <satdav> hub, wonder if you know ken_s what time normally is he on
  489. # [22:08] * Parts: satdav (satdav@moz-1ECB932B.cable.virginmedia.com) (Leaving)
  490. # [22:08] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net)
  491. # [22:08] * Joins: satdav (satdav@moz-1ECB932B.cable.virginmedia.com)
  492. # [22:09] <@hub> satdav: I don't even know him
  493. # [22:11] <Mark_Capella> !seen ken_s
  494. # [22:11] <@firebot> ken_s was last seen 3 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 18 minutes and 21 seconds ago, saying 'thanks' in #mozillians.
  495. # [22:11] * Bryen thinks clown is a pretty cool dude
  496. # [22:13] <@hub> Bryen: we have fantastic community members :-)
  497. # [22:13] * clown ah shucks
  498. # [22:13] <@davidb> firebot: clown?
  499. # [22:13] <@firebot> davidb: I have heard that clown is a GNOME Shell Magnifier developer, and WAI-ARIA gadfly.
  500. # [22:13] <Bryen> hub, and then I had to come along and stink up the place? :-)
  501. # [22:13] <@davidb> firebot: Bryen?
  502. # [22:13] <@firebot> davidb: Sorry, I've no idea what 'Bryen' might be.
  503. # [22:14] <@davidb> psh!
  504. # [22:14] <clown> now there's a straight line...
  505. # [22:14] <Bryen> LOL
  506. # [22:14] <@davidb> firebot: Bryen is a clown fanboi
  507. # [22:14] <@firebot> davidb: ok
  508. # [22:14] <@davidb> firebot: Bryen?
  509. # [22:14] <@firebot> davidb: Bryen is a clown fanboi
  510. # [22:14] <Bryen> I thought I was Firebot's worst nightmare?
  511. # [22:14] <@davidb> me work here is done
  512. # [22:14] <@davidb> firebot: hub?
  513. # [22:14] <@firebot> davidb: hub is a Mozilla platform hacker and his bugmail resolves on ":hub"
  514. # [22:14] <clown> firebot: Bryen is Firebot's worst nightmare.
  515. # [22:14] <@firebot> clown: But Bryen is 'a clown fanboi'...
  516. # [22:15] <clown> don't be so stubborn.
  517. # [22:15] <@davidb> clown: you have to so firebot: no, ...
  518. # [22:15] <@davidb> so/say
  519. # [22:15] <@davidb> kaiser so/say
  520. # [22:15] <Bryen> LOL
  521. # [22:15] <clown> huh?
  522. # [22:15] <clown> firebot: the usual suspects?
  523. # [22:15] <@davidb> firebot: no, Bryen is fireboat's worst nightmare
  524. # [22:15] <@davidb> sigh
  525. # [22:15] <@firebot> davidb: ok
  526. # [22:15] <@firebot> clown: Sorry, I've no idea what 'the usual suspects' might be.
  527. # [22:16] <@davidb> firebot: no, Bryen is firebot's worst nightmare
  528. # [22:16] <@firebot> davidb: ok
  529. # [22:16] <Bryen> firebot, davidb
  530. # [22:16] <@firebot> Bryen: Was it not... er, someone, who said: davidb is a frood who knows where his towel is AND exposes gecko to everyone (bolterbugz@gmail.com)
  531. # [22:16] <clown> it's one of davidb's favourite movies, firebot
  532. # [22:16] <@davidb> firebot: no, davidb is a vogon and his bug mail resolves on ":davidb"
  533. # [22:16] <@firebot> davidb: ok
  534. # [22:17] <@hub> davidb: as long as you don't read poetry, we are good
  535. # [22:17] <@hub> :-)
  536. # [22:17] <@davidb> :)
  537. # [22:17] <@hub> I'll grab my towel
  538. # [22:17] * clown will leave room before davidb starts reciting
  539. # [22:17] * @davidb needs a perfect tea
  540. # [22:17] <Bryen> guys, while we're all joking around, I assume you are all still on the gnome-a11y mailing list? If so, did you see my a11y @ OLF thread this week?
  541. # [22:17] <@davidb> hmm
  542. # [22:17] <@hub> I saw the thread, yeah
  543. # [22:18] <Bryen> Would Mozilla be interested in this?
  544. # [22:18] <clown> yup, seen it Bryen, but haven't had time to read it yet.
  545. # [22:18] <@hub> not using the infinite improbably drive to go there
  546. # [22:18] <@hub> Bryen: I'm very much too far
  547. # [22:18] <clown> hub, use bistro math.
  548. # [22:19] <Bryen> hub, well someday we could organize a similar thing on the west coast. I don't want to create something where everyone has to fly all over either.
  549. # [22:19] <Bryen> Next year's LFNW for example
  550. # [22:20] <@davidb> Bryen: what is the subject line of the email?
  551. # [22:20] <@hub> Bryen: if it was in Seattle it would be too far. Also I'm not gonna stay in Vancouver much longer anyway.
  552. # [22:20] <Bryen> davidb, a11y @ olf
  553. # [22:20] <@hub> Bryen: even Point Roberts is too far
  554. # [22:20] <Bryen> hub, What?? I kinda will miss your vancouver tweet rants :-)
  555. # [22:20] * @davidb doesn't have it
  556. # [22:20] <Bryen> where the heck is Point Roberts?
  557. # [22:20] <@davidb> i think i'm only on dev-a11y-gnome
  558. # [22:21] <Bryen> davidb, that's a problem then :-) let me get you the web link... hang on
  559. # [22:21] <@davidb> ty
  560. # [22:21] <@hub> Bryen: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2012-April/msg00011.html
  561. # [22:21] <@davidb> firebot: accessibility?
  562. # [22:21] <@firebot> davidb: I seem to recall that accessibility is not optional.
  563. # [22:21] <@hub> davidb: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2012-April/msg00011.html
  564. # [22:21] <@hub> Bryen: and FWIW, by September I hope to be settled in Montreal
  565. # [22:22] <@hub> still too far
  566. # [22:22] <@davidb> yeah not sure this event is doable for me
  567. # [22:22] <@hub> Bryen: *hint* if CBP represent the Americans, then your country is hostile to visitors.
  568. # [22:23] <Bryen> hub, CBP?
  569. # [22:23] <@hub> Customer and Border Patrol
  570. # [22:23] <@hub> Customs
  571. # [22:23] <@hub> gah
  572. # [22:23] <@hub> can't type
  573. # [22:23] <@hub> http://cbp.gov/
  574. # [22:23] <@hub> s/Patrol/Protection
  575. # [22:23] <Bryen> oh
  576. # [22:24] <@hub> Bryen: here in Canada we fingerprint and mughsot people only when arrested
  577. # [22:24] <Bryen> all of sudden lately I'm hearing canadians complaining about difficulty entering US. When did we start worrying about Canadians?
  578. # [22:24] <@hub> Bryen: I have a EU passport, still
  579. # [22:24] <@hub> Canadians are just the exception
  580. # [22:24] <@hub> but even for them it is a PITA
  581. # [22:24] <@hub> (and I don't know how long it will last)
  582. # [22:24] <Bryen> hub, But you've already entered the US so still an issue?
  583. # [22:25] <@hub> Bryen: each and everytime
  584. # [22:25] <@hub> Bryen: and even
  585. # [22:25] * Bryen admits he has no idea what its like to enter US as a non-citizen.
  586. # [22:25] <@hub> Bryen: yeah because Europe doesn't reciprocate
  587. # [22:25] <Bryen> All I know is that TSA is an asshole to DB folks when we come home
  588. # [22:25] <clown> hub, body scan when going thru airport security (when flying into the US)?
  589. # [22:26] <@hub> clown: no I always avoid that one way or the other
  590. # [22:26] <@hub> clown: and that
  591. # [22:26] <clown> how (for future reference)?
  592. # [22:26] <@hub> and that's not CBP
  593. # [22:26] <Bryen> Actually less than 5% of those scanners are in use, and I've never been scanned. TSA would be disappointed to see what I really look like anyway
  594. # [22:26] <@hub> clown: 1. luck 2. OPT OUT
  595. # [22:26] <clown> ah, frisking instead (?)
  596. # [22:26] <@hub> clown: TSA is cheaper than getting a hooker
  597. # [22:26] <@hub> :-)
  598. # [22:26] <clown> ewww...
  599. # [22:26] <@hub> clown: yeah but this only happened at YVR
  600. # [22:27] <@hub> so it is not like TSA
  601. # [22:27] <clown> which one is YVR?
  602. # [22:27] <@hub> Vancouver
  603. # [22:27] <@hub> Canadeh
  604. # [22:27] <clown> oh, right (shoulda figured that out).
  605. # [22:27] <@hub> if it start with a Y it is Canada
  606. # [22:27] <@davidb> i've always opted out
  607. # [22:27] <Bryen> as in "Oh Y Canada? Y Canadaaaaa!"?
  608. # [22:27] <clown> that i know, but should have figure out "VR" meant VancoveR
  609. # [22:28] <clown> "VancouveR"
  610. # [22:28] <@hub> also I have to apologize for Canadaa CBSA, they want to copy CBP in rudeness
  611. # [22:28] <clown> hub likes to talk in initials..
  612. # [22:28] <@hub> clown: YUL is Montreal, YYZ is Toronto. Logic?
  613. # [22:28] <@hub> clown: YOW is OttaWa
  614. # [22:28] <clown> cowabunga!
  615. # [22:29] <clown> and YTZ is Toronto island.
  616. # [22:29] <@hub> something like that
  617. # [22:29] <Bryen> Once I landed in US from EU to change planes and TSA refused to help guide me around, even when they could see my white cane. Just kept pointing and barking directions
  618. # [22:29] <clown> perhaps they were guide dogs?
  619. # [22:29] <Bryen> And when I told them I can't hear either, they said "well we can't help you"... and I struggled for like 45 minutes to finally find the line to enter US
  620. # [22:29] <@hub> Bryen: TSA are not here to service you
  621. # [22:29] <Bryen> and missed my frickin transfer flight.
  622. # [22:30] <Bryen> hub, Actually they are supposed to assist people with disabilities. And they do at all airports except during the immigaration checkin gates.
  623. # [22:30] <@hub> Bryen: I know they are supposed to
  624. # [22:30] <@hub> Bryen: but it is TSA they hire the most honest and competent people
  625. # [22:31] <@hub> [SARCASM] <- sarcasm billboard
  626. # [22:31] <Bryen> hub, What I should have done is "accidentally" wander into a restricted zone, set off alarms, shut down the airport and then publicly point to the fact that they refused to help this poor DeafBlind guy find his way around. :-)
  627. # [22:31] <@hub> Bryen: yeah would have been funny
  628. # [22:32] <@davidb> hub: next time heed this http://prutser.wordpress.com/2009/04/01/what-to-do-when-you-meet-a-sighted-person/
  629. # [22:32] <Bryen> err... this conversation here isn't being logged, is it? :-)
  630. # [22:32] <@davidb> errr not hub
  631. # [22:32] <@davidb> Bryen: ^
  632. # [22:32] <@davidb> it is being logged actually
  633. # [22:32] <Bryen> yikes :-)
  634. # [22:32] <@davidb> anyways Bryen http://prutser.wordpress.com/2009/04/01/what-to-do-when-you-meet-a-sighted-person/
  635. # [22:32] * Bryen reads
  636. # [22:32] <clown> firebot: SARCASM?
  637. # [22:32] <@firebot> clown: Oh, I know this one! SARCASM is derision, mockery, ridicule
  638. # [22:33] <Bryen> LOL great article
  639. # [22:33] <Bryen> davidb, Yesterday, I was at Walgreen's and asked at the checkout counter for a lighter. He asked (while clearly seeing my white cane) What color do you prefer?
  640. # [22:34] <Bryen> firebot, firebot?
  641. # [22:34] <@firebot> Bryen: hmm... I think firebot is at least 1.1x as good as sumobot
  642. # [22:34] <clown> firebot: sumobot?
  643. # [22:34] <@firebot> clown: Sumobot is the bot for sumo, obviously!
  644. # [22:34] <@davidb> Bryen: I won't tell you what happened when I went to buy caulk.
  645. # [22:34] <clown> riiight..
  646. # [22:35] * Bryen wonders if davidb uses caulk for good or evil
  647. # [22:35] * clown wonders if davidb uses caulk to patch FF
  648. # [22:35] <@davidb> it is far more dirty. nevermind.
  649. # [22:35] <@davidb> over beers maybe.
  650. # [22:36] <Bryen> over beers yes, with my hearing aid also shut off so I don't hear this gastardly story
  651. # [22:36] <@hub> davidb: I read that a while ago
  652. # [22:36] <@davidb> yeah i think i tweeted it
  653. # [22:37] * Quits: aaronlev (aaronlev@moz-654DF715.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: aaronlev)
  654. # [22:37] <@hub> Bryen: at CSUN I was walking Marco's dog. This was hilarious.
  655. # [22:37] <@hub> Bryen: I still had my sunglasses on
  656. # [22:37] <@davidb> lol
  657. # [22:37] * Joins: bram (bram@F6439486.99C6B0B8.3C8B9613.IP)
  658. # [22:38] <@hub> and to make things even funnier I had my camera on the side
  659. # [22:39] <Bryen> hub, and half the people didn't see you :-)
  660. # [22:39] <@hub> (it was not deliberate, I was just helping Marco)
  661. # [22:40] <@hub> Bryen: outside of the hotel
  662. # [22:40] <@hub> dog needed to do business
  663. # [22:40] * clown wants to see the vidoe.
  664. # [22:40] <Bryen> CSUN can be a dangerous place. I once got run over by a motorized wheel chair, and occasionally at CSUN, you hear a poor dog yelping from getting run over as well.
  665. # [22:40] <@hub> clown: I wish there was one
  666. # [22:40] <Bryen> They need traffic cops in those aisles in the exhibit hall.
  667. # [22:40] <@davidb> i need to relocate about 8 kms
  668. # [22:40] <@davidb> ciao
  669. # [22:40] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  670. # [22:41] <Bryen> hub, Last week I went into a restaurant, sat down, and waiter came over and profusely apologized for not having a braille menu
  671. # [22:42] <Bryen> So I asked him if he wanted me to read the menu out loud to him... He seemed unable to respond :-)
  672. # [22:43] <satdav> hey guys bram is doing the website for sumo he is making sure everyone can make it stand out better
  673. # [22:46] <@hub> Bryen: with Eitan we were walking back to the hotel with Jennisson, through the entertainment district in Toronto. I can tell you it was epic with cane
  674. # [22:47] * Bryen thinks sumo wrestlers don't need help standing out
  675. # [22:47] <@hub> Bryen: "I'm sure he can see", etc.
  676. # [22:47] <@hub> satdav, bram: awesome. let us know if you need anything
  677. # [22:48] <Bryen> hub, you will be amazed, especially young people, who totally act unaware of your presence. I've had people run and in front of me and send my cane flying around.
  678. # [22:48] <bram> satdav hub: sure thing! and let me know how SUMO can be helped in terms of readability (it is my main focus)
  679. # [22:48] <bram> satdav: and thanks for the introduction :)
  680. # [22:48] <Bryen> once my mother borrowed a wheelchair at a store because she had knee problems and was sruprised to see how many young people ignored the fact that there was a wheelchair there and kept cutitng her off
  681. # [22:49] <@hub> Bryen: I have seen it
  682. # [22:49] <Bryen> attitude is the biggest barrier to accessibility, not technology
  683. # [22:50] <satdav> hub, I am doing the qa website the now puting some bugs in about how to make it easier to read a bit more
  684. # [22:50] <Bryen> When the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed, a business owner complained to me about the costs of redoing his business to be accessible, including making wider doors.
  685. # [22:51] <Bryen> I told him, wheelchairs have been around as far back as the 1400's. Why is it our fault your architects didn't make the doors wider in the first place?
  686. # [22:51] <@hub> Bryen: I have had cyclist on the sidewalk telling me the curb cut was design to them to do so....
  687. # [22:52] <@hub> s/to them/for them/
  688. # [22:52] <Bryen> :-)
  689. # [22:52] <satdav> hub filling out a bug the now for the plugin page
  690. # [22:53] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: do you still want something from me?
  691. # [22:53] <@hub> our temporary office here isn't accessible
  692. # [22:54] <@hub> there are stairs and no ramp / elevator
  693. # [22:54] <Bryen> old building?
  694. # [22:54] <@hub> yeah
  695. # [22:55] <Bryen> Even under ADA, there are loopholes that allow certain buildings to get away with no elevators.
  696. # [22:55] <Bryen> But I love the ruling recently by a US District Court that indeed "Vicarious Liability" does exist for companies.
  697. # [22:56] <@hub> fortunately the "new" office has one
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  699. # [23:12] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  705. # [23:42] <@hub> tbsaunde: the approval is because they closed the tree for Fennec Native (Android version) as to not break before the uplift.
  706. # [23:43] <@tbsaunde> hub: I know what its for
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  709. # Session Close: Wed Apr 18 00:00:01 2012

The end :)