/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-04-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Apr 21 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:17] <Georgevits> if there was not space limit, could we say "inspect the accessible objects of the application (= firefox)" ? how close is this meaning to "Inspect Application Accessible"? this is the best approach i can do in my mind..
  4. # [00:19] <Georgevits> i have translated entire DOMi v 2.0.11 very carefully and i am stuck to this string for more than 2 weeks!
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  10. # [01:22] <tbsaunde> Georgevits: so, I'm not actually sure what happens when you select that menu entry, can you explain?
  11. # [01:38] <Georgevits> By default, the left side pane of DOMi shows the document of javascript object,
  12. # [01:38] <Georgevits> containing main app related entries, such as appname = firefox, appversion = 11, etc
  13. # [01:39] <Georgevits> the subject of the document is [xpconnect wrapped (nsISupports, nsIAccessible, nsIAccessibleApplication, nsIAccessNode)]
  14. # [01:41] <Georgevits> don't you have installed DOMI?
  15. # [01:48] <tbsaunde> Georgevits: actually I don't use domi very often
  16. # [01:48] <tbsaunde> myself, surkov is the big domi user among us
  17. # [01:49] <tbsaunde> Georgevits: ok, so it doesn't what I'd expect, thanks for confirming that
  18. # [01:50] <Georgevits> what you mean?
  19. # [01:51] <tbsaunde> Georgevits: ok, so "inspect the accessible objects of the application (= firefox)" makes me think I will be inspecting a bunch of accessible objects when I will only be inspecting one particular accessible
  20. # [01:52] <tbsaunde> maybe "inspect the accessible object providing information on the application as a whole" but that's really wordy
  21. # [01:55] <Georgevits> yes but the other objects are not accessible, so, that's why the term accessible.
  22. # [01:55] <Georgevits> isn't that correct?
  23. # [01:56] <tbsaunde> Georgevits: no, the other objects are accessible too
  24. # [01:56] <tbsaunde> but they aren't the application accessible they are document accessibles or content accessibles etc
  25. # [01:57] <Georgevits> i mean not accessible by the user
  26. # [01:57] <tbsaunde> not sure what you mean by that
  27. # [01:57] <Georgevits> like windows, tooltips, menus, which are accessible by the user
  28. # [01:58] <tbsaunde> domi should show you the other accessibles, doesn't domi let you look at the children of an accessible?
  29. # [01:58] <tbsaunde> tooltips menus should also have accessible objects
  30. # [02:02] <Georgevits> i can't realize the term accessible as a noun and find then something corresponding in my lang..
  31. # [02:04] <tbsaunde> Georgevits: how about if you replace accessible by accessible object, and think of accessible describing what type of object it is
  32. # [02:05] <tbsaunde> so, we have a bunch of things that are objects, and a subtype of object is an accessible object, and application accessibleobject is a kind of accessible object
  33. # [02:06] <tbsaunde> and, as it happens there is only one application accessible object n an application
  34. # [02:10] <Georgevits> that's exactly i said previously, inspect the accessible objects of the application (= firefox)", = "inspect application's accessible objects" as the menu item. it is not so long
  35. # [02:13] <tbsaunde> Georgevits: oh, hmm, we may hve a problem understanding each others english then ;-)
  36. # [02:14] <tbsaunde> because as you say that in english you make me think I'll inspect all of the objects, not just one of them
  37. # [02:15] <Georgevits> i always say: the best firewall is the different languages!
  38. # [02:16] <tbsaunde> yeah, it can be tricky, surkov's a native russian speaker so sometimes his english is funny
  39. # [02:17] <Georgevits> if we say "inspect application's accessible object"? not in plural
  40. # [02:17] <tbsaunde> any way if the one vs all thing works better in greek or just not my english awsum source
  41. # [02:18] <tbsaunde> yeah, sounds good to me
  42. # [02:18] <tbsaunde> kind of funny since it makes you think there's only one, but definitely makes sense
  43. # [02:19] <Georgevits> is it close enough to "Inspect Application Accessible"?
  44. # [02:20] <tbsaunde> I think so
  45. # [02:21] <Georgevits> where can i also come in contact with surkov?
  46. # [02:23] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from eitan@monotonous.or g for attachment 617152 on bug 739884.
  47. # [02:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739884 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, decomtaminate impl of UnselectRow() and UnselectCol() on accessible tables
  48. # [02:25] <tbsaunde> firebot: surkov?
  49. # [02:25] <@firebot> tbsaunde: surkov is a nocturnal accessibility programmer
  50. # [02:25] <tbsaunde> Georgevits: surkov.alexander@gmail.com he usually shows up in a hour or two from now, and is around until about 4 utc
  51. # [02:26] <tbsaunde> (he lives in the middle of russia)
  52. # [02:26] * drexler Mother Russia
  53. # [02:26] * drexler :)
  54. # [02:26] <tbsaunde> heh, yeah
  55. # [02:27] <Georgevits> i'll wait him!
  56. # [02:30] <Georgevits> i have made more than 100 translation of ffx's extensions, one third of them on babelzilla and this is the first time i stuck so much on one string!
  57. # [02:32] <tbsaunde> that's a lot, sorry it was so tricky
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  60. # [02:48] <Georgevits> this is the russian string" "Исследовать доступность приложения". quite different from the english, according to google translator
  61. # [02:49] <@tbsaunde> I don't knwo russian so ok
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  68. # [03:11] <Georgevits> surkov?
  69. # [03:23] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 747588 filed by trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  70. # [03:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=747588 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, ASSI, nsHTMLImageAccessible should set eImageAccessible in mFlags
  71. # [03:26] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 617170 on bug 747588.
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  112. # [14:29] <Mark_Capella> surkov: will you be reviewing your backlog ? i've got a few things outstanding, reviews, feedbacks, etc..
  113. # [14:29] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: sorry for delay, I try to do that tomorrow
  114. # [14:30] <Mark_Capella> thanks ... was suprised to see you here on a weekend :)
  115. # [14:31] <@surkov> :)
  116. # [14:31] <Mark_Capella> im really interested in the about:memory stuff... but I've got a lot of questions ....
  117. # [14:39] <Mark_Capella> surkov: other thank running the team, do you mind if I ask what kind of projects you're working on?
  118. # [14:41] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: well, when you (and others) don't keep me so busy then I'm coding, I do some work on specs and some work with AT vendors
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  120. # [14:42] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: you need get feedback from tbsaunde, but actually amount of accessible objects is not really helpful
  121. # [14:42] <Mark_Capella> yah - we could use a couple more of you ... :D
  122. # [14:42] <@surkov> we'd need to collect the size of objects
  123. # [14:43] <@surkov> perhaps you can provide virtual method to compute the size of the object
  124. # [14:43] <@surkov> the size may be changed during object life cycle
  125. # [14:44] <@surkov> if you run through the cache then you don't count the object kept by AT
  126. # [14:44] <@surkov> but if you call virtual function at construction/destruction time then it's not good
  127. # [14:45] <Mark_Capella> i need a better understanding of the internals ... application accessible has doc accessibles have accessibles .... external API's have ?what? root point, and etc
  128. # [14:47] <Mark_Capella> then dumb questions like is application accessible same as all browser accessibles, is doc accessible all accesibles on an open tab, etc
  129. # [14:49] <Mark_Capella> or better yet is there documentation high-level type non-tech to explain it all
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  131. # [15:31] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: some APIs have application accessible, some don't
  132. # [15:32] <@surkov> application accessible is the same for browser instance
  133. # [15:32] <@surkov> i.e. for all windows running on the same browser instance
  134. # [15:32] <@surkov> if you start thunderbird then it has own app accessible
  135. # [15:32] <@surkov> or if you run two different firefoxes on same machine then each of them has app accessible
  136. # [15:33] <@surkov> each window has document accessible (nsRootAccessible class)
  137. # [15:33] <@surkov> each DOM document has document accessible (nsDocAccessible)
  138. # [15:33] <@surkov> in general
  139. # [15:33] <@surkov> because some DOM document aren't accessible of course
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  142. # [15:34] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: there's some docs (https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Accessibility/AT-APIs) but they are targeted rather to AT developers than to Gecko developers
  143. # [15:37] <Mark_Capella> the current code approach of counting accesibles as they are constructed doesnt work, ie: the about:memory page always say zero items ...
  144. # [15:37] <Mark_Capella> for the patch i mean
  145. # [15:39] <Mark_Capella> asif the count being stored is in a different place in memory as that being "seen" by the memory reporter
  146. # [15:41] <Mark_Capella> like im expecting the global count to be displayed, but im not properly referencing / totalling up local counts ...
  147. # [15:43] <Mark_Capella> or to put it I want about:memory to display all accessibles per app accessible, but they're being kept lower level rnRootAccessible (per page/tab) or lower yet nsDocAccessible (per DOM per page/tab)
  148. # [15:44] <Mark_Capella> and so even if I want just a not very useful count of total accessibles, i dont even have that part right
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  157. # [19:57] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 617152 on bug 739884.
  158. # [19:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739884 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, decomtaminate impl of UnselectRow() and UnselectCol() on accessible tables
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The end :)