/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-05-02 / end
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- # Session Start: Wed May 02 00:00:22 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
- # [00:11] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [00:16] <@hub> crap. can't check in
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- # [00:20] <Mark_Capella> #developers up to something...
- # [00:53] <@tbsaunde> isn't it that msvc is running out of address space again? :/
- # [00:55] <@hub> tbsaunde: once again
- # [00:56] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 750937 filed by isegall@mozilla.com.
- # [00:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750937 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, should be able to track cut and paste shortcuts by user
- # [00:56] <@tbsaunde> hub: yup, btw what do you have to check in?
- # [00:58] <@hub> tbsaunde: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750853
- # [00:58] <@firebot> Bug 750853 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, mozilla/a11y/Role.h:817: error: comma at end of enumerator list
- # [00:58] <@hub> I think I'll revert to putting back the keyword and let the checkin team take care of it
- # [00:59] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
- # [01:00] <@tbsaunde> yeah
- # [01:01] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 620107 on bug 750853.
- # [01:07] <Mark_Capella> they've been on the addresses space thing for quite some time ... must be a stumper
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- # [01:30] <@hub> it is a recurring issue
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- # [02:16] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com changed the Component on bug 750954 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
- # [02:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750954 nor, --, ---, hub, UNCO, Regression: Accessibility: Mac OS X's 'speak selected text' speaks contents of text fields, not sele
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- # [02:26] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Where would i be able to find the logs for A11Y_DEBUG_FOCUS?
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- # [02:39] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: I thought they were printed to the console
- # [02:40] <Shnish> tbasunde: i ran firefox.exe from the console and nothing was printed.
- # [02:41] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [02:42] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: hm, let me check
- # [02:44] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: you defined A11Y_DEBUG_FOCUS in accessible/src/base/FocusManager.h right and rebuilt right?
- # [02:44] <Shnish> yes
- # [02:45] <@tbsaunde> weird?
- # [02:45] <@tbsaunde> err, weird!
- # [02:45] <Shnish> if it should work then i can try to rebuild it
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- # [02:46] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: oh, have you enabled accessibility?
- # [02:46] <Shnish> tbsaunde: how would I do that?
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- # [02:48] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: easiest thing is probably run the following in the error console
- # [02:48] <@tbsaunde> var gAccRetrieval = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/accessibleRetrieval;1"]. getService(nsIAccessibleRetrieval);
- # [02:52] <Shnish> tbsaunde: It says "ReferenceError: nsIAccessibleRetrieval is not defined"
- # [02:58] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: ok, hm do you have domi addon installed?
- # [02:58] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Yes i do
- # [02:59] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: I think there is a menu button somewhere to inspect the application accessible that should start a11y
- # [02:59] <@tbsaunde> or anything else in domi that lets you inspect accessibility really
- # [03:07] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Thank you, I have found it
- # [03:09] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: yw
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- # [03:11] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: are printfs working now?
- # [03:11] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Yes they are
- # [03:12] <@tbsaunde> ok, cool
- # [03:13] <@tbsaunde> if you want to know more stuff I'd dvise sking soonish, I'm probably going to sleep soon
- # [03:20] <Shnish> tbsaunde: 1 more question: On my DOMi it shows that all focus events are being fired before the menustart events.. I am guessing that it should be the other way around and that is what this bug is supposed to be
- # [03:21] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: I believe so
- # [03:23] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Ok, I will talk to surkov when he comes on. have a good night
- # [03:24] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: ok, you too, but you can always try and see if I'm around I might be :)
- # [03:25] <Shnish> tbsaunde: will do
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- # [04:34] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 748719 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [04:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748719 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, put ApplicationAccessible class into mozilla::a11y namespace
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- # [04:44] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620169 on bug 746084.
- # [04:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746084 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, provide extended logging for a11y module
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- # [05:29] <drexler> surkov: hi, can you confirm whether the test i added in bug 445516 in the last patch is correct? It's in test_text.html
- # [05:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445516 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, ASSI, Support auto-generated=true text attribute on list bullets
- # [05:29] <drexler> surkov: i've been debugging and i'm not even hitting the code you pointed out which leads me to think my test might be incorrect.
- # [05:37] <@surkov> drexler: sure, I'll take a look
- # [05:37] <drexler> surkov: thanks :)
- # [05:42] <@surkov> drexler: yep, test looks ok
- # [05:47] <drexler> surkov: hmm...then the problem might be somewhere else...i'll keep on investigating
- # [05:47] <drexler> thanks.
- # [05:47] <@surkov> drexler: try to debug mochitest
- # [05:47] <drexler> surkov: actually been doing that..
- # [05:48] <@surkov> ok, cool
- # [05:53] <drexler> surkov: so far from what i can tell, the computed child indices(childIdx in TextAttrsMgr::GetAttributes) and thus hits the early return
- # [05:53] <drexler> surkov: i mean those indices are off..
- # [05:53] * drexler poking further..
- # [05:54] <@surkov> there's another attribute on it?
- # [05:55] <drexler> no there isn't
- # [06:02] * Joins: Jamie (jamie@moz-CA26021.jantrid.net)
- # [06:02] <Jamie> hi everyone :)
- # [06:03] <Jamie> surkov: long time no speak. Hope things are going well. :) I have a quick question to harass you with if you don't mind
- # [06:03] <@surkov> Jamie: hey, nice to hear you, sure
- # [06:04] <Jamie> surkov: It looks like the tag object attribute changed case in Firefox 14 somehow
- # [06:05] <Jamie> surkov: so it used to show "EMBED" but now it shows "embed"
- # [06:05] <@surkov> Jamie: I think so, is it a problem?
- # [06:05] <Jamie> in principle, this is fine, but I'm wondering whether this was an intentional change, as it causes a regression in NVDA
- # [06:05] <@surkov> Jamie: we switched to lowercase to be consistent through different markups
- # [06:06] * Jamie nods
- # [06:06] <Jamie> okay. In that case, I'll just handle both possibilities in NVDA
- # [06:06] <Jamie> users just need to update NVDA to handle ff14
- # [06:06] <@surkov> heh
- # [06:07] <Jamie> surkov: to clarify, was this definitely ff14 (ff13 is fine)?
- # [06:07] <Jamie> err, ff13 is upper case
- # [06:07] <@surkov> let me check
- # [06:08] <Jamie> surkov: if you ahve a bug number, that'd be fantastic.
- # [06:09] * Jamie somehow missed this one :)
- # [06:09] <@surkov> Jamie: bug 736059
- # [06:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736059 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, do some cleanups of nsAccessible::GetAttributesInternal
- # [06:10] <@surkov> it has not striking name
- # [06:10] <Jamie> ah. <nods>
- # [06:10] <@surkov> so you missed it
- # [06:10] <Jamie> okay. any idea when ff14 goes stable?
- # [06:11] * Jamie hopes we can get this into an NVDA release before ff14 goes stable
- # [06:12] <@surkov> Jamie: June 5, 2012 it goes to beta
- # [06:12] * Jamie nods
- # [06:12] <Jamie> we'll hopefully push an NVDA release before then
- # [06:12] <@surkov> thank you!
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- # [06:46] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 620022 on bug 747272.
- # [06:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=747272 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Filter out whitespace text leaves in navigation
- # [06:51] <@hub> but m-i is still closed :-(
- # [06:52] <@hub> if it is android only, you can check in on m-c with a=android-only
- # [06:52] <@hub> (closed because of Windows)
- # [06:59] <@MarcoZ> hub, et al, do you know if tests are affected, too? e. g. I'd like to properly disable the tests for bug 746970 on Mac, but this reenables them on Windows because they accidentally got disabled by my stupid Copy&Paste error.
- # [06:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746970 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, events/test_focus_general.xul, test timing out on mbb tests
- # [07:00] <@hub> MarcoZ: I think you should be able to get it approved to land on m-c if it is test only
- # [07:01] <@hub> MarcoZ: it is the Windows linking that is barfing again
- # [07:05] <@MarcoZ> hub: Understood and landed.
- # [07:07] <@MarcoZ> hub: I meant to disable that test on Mac, but because the previous files all had a conditional "if mac", I barfed on this and one other file that I had previously fixed.
- # [07:07] <@MarcoZ> In these cases it was"if not mac". Ouch!
- # [07:09] <@hub> happens
- # [07:10] <@hub> MarcoZ: btw we'll have to discuss whether we should bother with a11y on 10.6 or not
- # [07:10] <@hub> I'm still on 10.6, but I start to believe I should just upgrade
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- # [07:16] <@hub> MarcoZ: if you were to land in YTZ, it would be less convenient as you need to take a Ferry to get downtown... you don't have the nice limo service
- # [07:18] <@MarcoZ> Hub: A ferry is not a problem for either me or Hexe. It's just an extra transportation step. But from Germany, all fly to yyz anyway.
- # [07:18] <@MarcoZ> Hub: Are there that many differences between SL and Lion?
- # [07:18] <@hub> yeah extra step :-).
- # [07:18] <@MarcoZ> I mean a11y wise.
- # [07:18] <@hub> I don't know how many difference in term of a11y, but I know there are
- # [07:18] <@MarcoZ> I know that there were many VoiceOver enhancements that prompted a lot of blind folks to upgrade.
- # [07:19] <@hub> which is my point
- # [07:20] <@MarcoZ> I moderate a German Apple accessibility mailing list, with over 300 mostly blind members, and I don't believe anyone is on Snow Leopard there any more.
- # [07:21] <@MarcoZ> I'd be fine with "try on your own risk" statement for Snow Leopard and Firefox a11y.
- # [07:25] <@hub> yeah. I just want to make sure we do the right thing
- # [07:25] <@hub> I might really have to bite the bullet and install Lion
- # [07:28] <@MarcoZ> hub: I found it not to be a pain at all moving from SL to Lion on my MacBook.
- # [07:28] <@MarcoZ> Hub: BTW: Craig is the surname, James is the first name of this gentleman. ;)
- # [07:29] * @MarcoZ files two bugs in the Apple bug reporter w.r.t. Firefox VoiceOver interoperability.
- # [07:30] <Jamie> So I'm guessing AccessFu is the name of the Mozilla screen reader, but what on earth does Fu stand for? :)
- # [07:30] <@hub> MarcoZ: scheisse
- # [07:31] <@hub> MarcoZ: I didn't mean
- # [07:31] <@hub> MarcoZ: I used to have full Radar access. By Full I mean as full as it can be as an employee, which still mean very restricted
- # [07:32] <@hub> Jamie: it is javascript, and mostly for mobile.
- # [07:32] <@hub> Jamie: eeejay does that for Android
- # [07:32] <Jamie> hub: mm, I figured that... I was just wondering about the name
- # [07:32] <@hub> script-fu, google-fu
- # [07:32] <@hub> I'm just English as second language
- # [07:33] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: I also haven't quite caught the "fu" part yet.
- # [07:33] <@hub> Kung-fu
- # [07:33] <@MarcoZ> Eek, bugreport.apple.com is down.
- # [07:34] <Jamie> I mean there's fu as in fubar, but that's not the meaning here :)
- # [07:34] <Jamie> ah, kung-fu, yeah
- # [07:34] <@hub> MarcoZ: works here
- # [07:35] <@hub> MarcoZ: I actually, force of habit, used http://radar.apple.com
- # [07:35] <@hub> and I could login with my personal AppleID
- # [07:35] <@hub> (it redirect to bugreport)
- # [07:35] <Jamie> Apple's bug reporting systme drives me insane. :) I love the "let's close a bug as duplicate, but not give you any way to find out the status of the original bug" thing
- # [07:36] <@hub> Jamie: you know, even as an employee it happens
- # [07:36] <Jamie> I wonder how many duplicates they actually get
- # [07:36] <Jamie> surely it's inefficient as all hell
- # [07:36] <@hub> Jamie: I filed bugs that disappeared and was never allowed to even see them again
- # [07:36] <@MarcoZ> I'd suspect hundreds of thousands.
- # [07:36] <Jamie> I would ahve thought the inefficiency induced would more than justify being a bit more open, but apparently not :)
- # [07:37] <@hub> the worse is trying to get the triaged components based on code names
- # [07:37] <@hub> Jamie: open is not part of the deal. secrecy seems to work great
- # [07:37] <Jamie> hub: Clearly. except not always.
- # [07:37] <@hub> Jamie: the overhead is compensated by it
- # [07:37] * Jamie nods
- # [07:37] <@hub> Jamie: and yes it was a PITA
- # [07:38] <Jamie> I guess it's fine when you have enough money to employ the extra people required to triage :)
- # [07:39] <@MarcoZ> Hub: "An error has occurred. Please report the error to Apple Inc. by emailing the error detail to "
- # [07:39] <@hub> MarcoZ: ouch
- # [07:39] <@hub> MarcoZ: not good
- # [07:39] <Jamie> As a bug reporter, though, it's actually a turn-off for me and I often don't file bugs because of it. I hate wasting my time when I suspect someone else has already filed the bug
- # [07:39] <@hub> not to worry, internal radar is the most hated app
- # [07:39] <@hub> more than Xcode
- # [07:39] <Jamie> MarcoZ: I've seen that many times before. I am starting ot suspect it's something to do with not logging out of radar properly
- # [07:40] <Jamie> it took days to resolve for me last time
- # [07:40] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: Hadn't beein logged in for weeks.
- # [07:40] <@hub> Jamie: on Android, when an app crash, you get offered to report it. But before reporting it you need to reed the novel-sized EULA for the reporting system
- # [07:40] <Jamie> MarcoZ: hmm, I'm probably wrong then :)
- # [07:40] * Jamie grins
- # [07:40] <@hub> the bug reporting stuff lock you out very quickly
- # [07:40] <@hub> not to worry
- # [07:41] <Jamie> B2G, anyone? :)
- # [07:43] <@hub> Jamie: yeah, right on
- # [07:43] <@hub> Jamie: we intend to do something
- # [07:43] <@hub> just not for the first release as it will be too short for that
- # [07:44] <@hub> that's also why eeejay write AccessFu
- # [07:44] <@hub> so we can reuse it on b2g
- # [07:44] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 620059 on bug 748724.
- # [07:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
- # [07:46] <Jamie> hub: <nods> I know. to be honest, I'm more excited about AccessFu on B2G than Android
- # [07:47] <Jamie> The Android accessibility story irritates me so much taht I refuse to touch it on principle
- # [07:47] <Jamie> at least for now :)
- # [07:47] <@hub> Jamie: android frustrate me
- # [07:47] <@hub> Jamie: for a lot of reason
- # [07:48] <Jamie> Android accessibility is just so fragmented and badly implemented across the board that I don't think it can ever be gracefully saved
- # [07:49] <@hub> not only its accessibility, that's the worst part
- # [07:49] <@hub> btw in 4.0, official the OEM can't remove a11y
- # [07:49] <@hub> but then HTC "skin" isn't accessible
- # [07:50] <Jamie> Even Windows accessibility, with all of its ugliness, si about 1000 times better, and that's really saying something
- # [07:50] <Jamie> and Microsoft at least had an excuse: they started doing this years ago before any of the weird and wonderful stuff we have now
- # [07:51] * @MarcoZ nods. I hardly touch my Android phone for the same reasons.
- # [07:51] <@MarcoZ> Hub: FWIW, and WTF, bugreporter worked in Safari for me. Here's our first of the two bugs:
- # [07:51] <@hub> I can't really speak of Windows, but that doesn't surprise me
- # [07:51] <@MarcoZ> https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa/57/wo/cI8uHmOVOXslaUTvrsafs0/7.66
- # [07:52] <@hub> MarcoZ: the URL aren't bookmarkable
- # [07:52] <@MarcoZ> Hub, ouch!
- # [07:52] <@hub> MarcoZ: and I likely have no access to the bugs anyway
- # [07:52] <@hub> welcome to the sucky life of Webobjects
- # [07:52] <Jamie> MarcoZ: you really expected that anything at Apple would be open? :)
- # [07:53] <Jamie> Btw, congrats on a11y enabled by default for Mac OS Firefox. That really is fantastic news, even if there's still work to do
- # [07:54] <Jamie> MarcoZ: do you know whether anyone will be working on pdf.js a11y in the near term? It has some really exciting potential in terms of being another accessible pdf reader
- # [07:54] <@hub> Jamie: it is already as accessible as the canvas :-)
- # [07:54] <@hub> isn't it?
- # [07:55] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: Oh I remember the first Windows a11y builds, they weren't much better than this, and look how far we've come! I'm optimistic that we'll have these things ironed out in no time! :)
- # [07:55] <@MarcoZ> And thanks, btw!
- # [07:55] <@MarcoZ> Hub: If you can, try ID 11361238.
- # [07:56] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: hub: Yes, the one thing we can try to do is to also implement PDF tag support. The problem is that, if the PDF itself is crap, there's not much we can get out of it.
- # [07:56] <@hub> holly sh*t they reach 8 digits?
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- # [07:57] <@hub> MarcoZ: can't get it
- # [07:57] <@hub> MarcoZ: nor did I expect to
- # [08:05] <@MarcoZ> OK, filed the one about performance, too.
- # [08:07] <@MarcoZ> hub: The new one is 11361293, so in these few minutes, over 50 bugs had been filed.
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- # [08:11] <Jamie> MarcoZ: that's true, but there are actually a fair amount of accessible pdfs these days
- # [08:11] <Jamie> MarcoZ: my point is that right now, there's no other accessible pdf reader (really) except Adobe REader itself
- # [08:11] <Jamie> MarcoZ: it'd be good to have another alternative, especially when Gecko's a11y exposure is pretty awesome as it is
- # [08:13] <@hub> is Preview on MacOS accessible?
- # [08:14] <@MarcoZ> hub: Yes, but it also doesn't read PDF accessibility tags.
- # [08:15] * @MarcoZ is now in the background, doing some morning routine. Breakfast, dog walking etc.
- # [08:17] <@hub> MarcoZ: yeah I heard about that one
- # [08:17] <@hub> I'll soon go to bed
- # [08:17] <Mark_Capella> surkov: you mention not exporting the header files for bug 748724
- # [08:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
- # [08:17] <Mark_Capella> but wont this be required until bug 748716 lands?
- # [08:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748716 nor, --, mozilla15, markcapella, ASSI, don't export ApplicationAccessibleWrap.h
- # [08:18] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: it seems so
- # [08:19] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: but I think you can base your patch on top of that bug
- # [08:19] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: do you use mercurial queues?
- # [08:19] <Mark_Capella> ok ... yes i do and yes i can
- # [08:19] <@surkov> anyway that bug was landed on inbound and I will land your patch on inbound too
- # [08:20] <Mark_Capella> same with GetName() bug then? Is what I was talking about in this bug and having to rebase ...
- # [08:20] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: actually I work on top of trunk but keep all patches landed on inbound in mq until they land on trunk, after that I pull the trunk
- # [08:20] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: sure
- # [08:20] <@surkov> that's lesser work for you
- # [08:21] <Mark_Capella> good ... i wanted to anyhow .... i've been basing each patch as an individual off most recent nightly ... not combining them
- # [08:23] <Mark_Capella> surkov ... ill pull a new nightly ... qpush the "GetName" patch, then the "dont export" patch, then this "densify RootAccessible"
- # [08:23] <Mark_Capella> one and start work on the changes you just suggested
- # [08:23] <Mark_Capella> fyi
- # [08:25] <@surkov> not sure what means 'don't export' (qdel -r ?), in your case you'd need to have three patches in mq, RootAcc patch on top of two other
- # [08:26] <@surkov> but you're not guaranteed of mergins if you didn't import landed patch (usually I do some nit fixes before landing)
- # [08:26] <@surkov> but not high probability
- # [08:28] <Mark_Capella> GetName() patch .... then "Dont export ApplicationAccessible" which gives us the makefile fix, then RootAcc on top
- # [08:28] <Mark_Capella> so i can pull RootAcc.h exports and etc. from that point
- # [08:29] <Mark_Capella> and using your final GetName() patch from bugzilla ...
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- # [08:45] <@surkov> yep
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- # [09:00] <Mark_Capella> oh ... someones elses patch clashed ... 8 reject files ... not too bad
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- # [11:21] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751079 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [11:21] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620234 on bug 751079.
- # [11:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751079 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, get rid misuses of nsAccessible::GetBoundaryFrame
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- # [13:25] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 620249 on bug 748601.
- # [13:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748601 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, nsMaiInterfaceText.cpp should check internal role not atk role
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- # [14:34] <@MarcoZ> Yawn
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- # [15:19] * @davidb reboots into windows
- # [15:27] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Did you survive that? *g* Hi!
- # [15:27] <@davidb> heh
- # [15:31] * @davidb fires up windows speech rec
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- # [15:54] * @MarcoZ is really curious if Apple will help us determine why Firefox + VoiceOver are so laggy.
- # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> surkov: In case you missed it yesterday, I found out that in XUL, there is no lag at all. The lag is only in web content.
- # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> s/yesterday/on Monday/
- # [15:55] <@surkov> MarcoZ: ok
- # [15:55] <@surkov> a big tree perhaps
- # [15:56] <@MarcoZ> Even on small pages there's a noticeable lag. about:home for example.
- # [15:58] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 620249 on bug 748601.
- # [15:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748601 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, nsMaiInterfaceText.cpp should check internal role not atk role
- # [15:58] <@surkov> hm, strange
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- # [16:11] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested feedback from trev.saunders@gma il.com for attachment 620298 on bug 748724.
- # [16:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
- # [16:13] <@davidb> MarcoZ: thanks for adding fun to the agenda :)
- # [16:14] <@MarcoZ> davidb: :D
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- # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> Good morning hub! :)
- # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I'm wondering...and I will ask eeejay when he's on, if it makes sense for me to get B2G working with accessibility and test on there. Android *really* frustrates me everytime I touch it outside Fennec.
- # [16:17] <@davidb> we definitely need to get android tested. i'm going to test it as well.
- # [16:17] <@MarcoZ> OK!
- # [16:21] * @MarcoZ will bite that bullet.
- # [16:24] <@davidb> it is sad
- # [16:25] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And I don't see it changing in the foreseeable future. Jamie, Hub and I talked about this earlier today, too briefly.
- # [16:25] <@davidb> how is Jamie?
- # [16:25] <@MarcoZ> He sounded fine.
- # [16:26] <@MarcoZ> Jamie said something along the lines that even Windows accessibility is a thousand times better than even IceCream Sandwich, and that says a lot, IMO.
- # [16:33] <@hub> no surprise here
- # [16:33] * @eeejay nods
- # [16:34] * @MarcoZ connects to Vidyo.
- # [16:35] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
- # [16:38] <@davidb|mtg> surkov, tbsaunde ping (meeting)
- # [16:39] <@surkov> davidb|mtg: url?
- # [16:39] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: vidyo
- # [16:40] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: v.mozilla.com
- # [16:40] <@surkov> ok
- # [16:42] <@eeejay> hub, you on linux vidyo?
- # [16:44] <@hub> eeejay: iPad
- # [16:44] <@eeejay> gotcha
- # [16:45] <@hub> linux is giving the ambient light
- # [16:45] <@eeejay> cool
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- # [16:47] <@hub> eeejay: I'll try vidyo on Linux the day it does not require Flash to login
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- # [16:49] <@eeejay> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Mobile/AccessFu
- # [17:09] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: bug 745986
- # [17:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745986 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Display page loading states
- # [17:10] <@davidb|mtg> eeejay: "huge gaps between answers"
- # [17:11] <@davidb|mtg> eeejay: "merging is always a problem"
- # [17:16] <@davidb|mtg> hub: are you in a basement?
- # [17:19] <@davidb|mtg> MarcoZ: I hope I didn't cut you off and forget to get back to you earlier (i think i did)
- # [17:19] <@davidb|mtg> sorry
- # [17:20] <@hub> davidb|mtg: nah
- # [17:20] * davidb|mtg is now known as davidb
- # [17:20] <@hub> just that I don't have a chair here
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- # [17:20] <@davidb> ah heh
- # [17:20] <@hub> so I decided to lay down
- # [17:20] <@davidb> i almost saw you drift
- # [17:20] <@davidb> patch review meta discussion isn't for everyone i guess :)
- # [17:21] <@hub> I was listening
- # [17:21] <@davidb> good good
- # [17:22] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You didn't cut me off. I got the point across that I wanted to make. :)
- # [17:22] <@davidb> phew
- # [17:23] <@davidb> surkov: do you use vidyo on mac?
- # [17:25] <@surkov> davidb: yes
- # [17:25] <@davidb> ok cool… i'm not sure why the meeting status showed you as so noisy
- # [17:26] <@davidb> things to try are: headset, or clicking the mic icon to mute/unmute
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- # [17:26] <@davidb> MarcoZ: you might want to get a headset with a button that mutes
- # [17:26] <@davidb> the default ones IT supplies have one
- # [17:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you had 0 noise which was awesome
- # [17:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you using SIP?
- # [17:28] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Those are USB only AFAIK. I need one with a single connector for mike and earphones, for the iPad.
- # [17:28] <@MarcoZ> 3.5 mm.
- # [17:28] <@davidb> ah
- # [17:28] <@davidb> maybe if you can find the mic hole you could stick a thumb over it :)
- # [17:28] <@davidb> when the voices are clear, the meetings are awseomer
- # [17:28] <@MarcoZ> I can try. :)
- # [17:28] <@davidb> thanks :)
- # [17:30] <@MarcoZ> hub: Did I hear correctly that you've an idea about bug 750612 already?
- # [17:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750612 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] Too much is exposed to VoiceOver that is actually not currently visible/interactable
- # [17:30] <@davidb> Finally I'll again note: http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/post/19584943356/ive-got-ears-what-more-do-i-need
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- # [17:30] <@davidb> the alt text is "Asked to use a headset… gave zero fucks"
- # [17:30] <@davidb> :)
- # [17:31] <@davidb> that's for y'all
- # [17:31] <@MarcoZ> LOL
- # [17:31] <@davidb> MarcoZ: that bug is interesting.
- # [17:32] <@MarcoZ> Yeah too bad these MozillaMemes are all pictures.
- # [17:32] <@davidb> I wonder if Safari prunes/breaks it's tree
- # [17:32] <@MarcoZ> I found the "Seven things you may or may not know about me" blog post meme much more fun obviously.
- # [17:32] <@davidb> heheh
- # [17:32] <@davidb> that needs a revival
- # [17:32] * @davidb heads over to windows speech rec
- # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> Have fun!
- # [17:34] <@davidb> the office will think i'm talking to myself
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- # [18:01] <@hub> MarcoZ: yeah. Safari does not show the multiple tab
- # [18:01] <@hub> it only show the front one
- # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> Hub: So, the other accessibles are not there?
- # [18:05] <@hub> MarcoZ: no they are not
- # [18:05] <@hub> I believe the fix is in the traversal
- # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> hub: That means if you have two tabs open and switch between them, Safari recreates its tree for the document each time? OMG!
- # [18:06] <@hub> basically
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- # [18:06] <@hub> that's already how it works anyway
- # [18:06] * @MarcoZ is baffled. Interesting!
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- # [18:19] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: well, it could keep the tree round and just not make it available
- # [18:20] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no, cell phone, I have no idea why it was quiet
- # [18:20] <@davidb> tbsaunde: did you dial direct? a voip caller showed up
- # [18:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: direct?
- # [18:23] <@davidb> tbsaunde: did you dial a phone number?
- # [18:23] <@davidb> i guess the phone number bridges in via voip
- # [18:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: 650-903-0800
- # [18:25] <@davidb> ok cool
- # [18:25] <@davidb> yeah i'm silly. i'm sure that bridges and shows up as voip
- # [18:25] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [18:26] <@davidb> MarcoZ: what were the dates in Sept?
- # [18:28] <@hub> that's MTV phone number
- # [18:30] <@tbsaunde> usually a11y isn't my biggest anoyance with android fwiw
- # [18:33] <@davidb> eeejay: how would you feel about having a crappy reviewer?
- # [18:34] <@eeejay> davidb, hum
- # [18:34] <@eeejay> davidb, are you being humble?
- # [18:35] <@davidb> eeejay: if I take the time, I can do well.
- # [18:35] <@davidb> So I need to make the time.
- # [18:35] <@eeejay> davidb, if you have it :)
- # [18:35] <@davidb> eeejay: what can really help is doing live reviews. we could Skype while i review.
- # [18:35] <@davidb> it would speed me up 10x
- # [18:37] <@hub> davidb: the CNE is open also around August
- # [18:37] <@eeejay> davidb, that sounds good.
- # [18:38] <@hub> davidb: we can go on roller coasters :-)
- # [18:38] <@davidb> indeed
- # [18:38] <@davidb> i can watch you guys go on roller coasters
- # [18:38] <@davidb> unless you want to see me scream
- # [18:38] <@davidb> actually i don't scream i just sweat
- # [18:39] <@eeejay> davidb, oh!
- # [18:39] <@eeejay> i forgot to say
- # [18:39] <@eeejay> davidb, my talk was accepted in open source bridge
- # [18:40] <@eeejay> http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/849
- # [18:40] <@davidb> excellent
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- # [18:44] <@hub> davidb: and I might drive down for the work week, which mean that if we do a road trip I have room for transportation
- # [18:44] <@davidb> woot!
- # [18:46] <@hub> note that I only drive down if Nancy decide to tag along. if I'm alone train is fine
- # [18:50] <@davidb> yep
- # [18:50] <@davidb> car rental is also an option
- # [18:50] <@davidb> either from montreal or local
- # [18:50] <@davidb> we'll see
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- # [19:04] <@MarcoZ> davidb: September 17 to September 28.
- # [19:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: What work week are we talking about? One all-hands in MV?
- # [19:05] * @MarcoZ thought there wasn't going to be one this year.
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- # [19:08] <@davidb> a11y work week
- # [19:08] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
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- # [19:09] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
- # [19:13] <@hub> davidb|mtg: not from Mtl. It does not make sense.
- # [19:14] <@davidb|mtg> ok
- # [19:14] <@hub> davidb|mtg: local, for sure if needed
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- # [19:21] <@MarcoZ> davidb|mtg: When do you envision this one to happen?
- # [19:21] <@davidb|mtg> MarcoZ: i sent email
- # [19:21] <@davidb|mtg> august 27th
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- # [19:26] <@MarcoZ> Found it.
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- # [19:31] * @MarcoZ is off for the evening. See you all tomorrow!
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- # [20:17] <@davidb> can you believe i haven't gotten back to the windows speech rec tutorial
- # [20:17] <@davidb> fml
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- # [21:00] <@hub> I wonder if ou a11y rework didn't contribute to bloat libxul.dll
- # [21:00] <@hub> things like name spaces
- # [21:00] <@hub> and such
- # [21:01] * khuey prepares the gallows for hub
- # [21:02] <@davidb> hub: i wondered as well.
- # [21:02] <khuey> when did this stuff land?
- # [21:02] <@davidb> it started landing quite a while ago
- # [21:02] <@davidb> khuey: what is the bug # again?
- # [21:02] <khuey> for what?
- # [21:02] <khuey> the libxul stuff?
- # [21:03] <@davidb> yeah the PGO OOM
- # [21:03] <khuey> 750661
- # [21:03] <@davidb> ty
- # [21:05] <@davidb> hmm I wonder if that change set range tells the story
- # [21:05] * @davidb wanders over to bug 710840
- # [21:05] <khuey> there's nothing in that range that's an obvious culprit
- # [21:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710840 maj, P1, ---, nobody, NEW, Track peak virtual memory usage of link.exe process during libxul PGO link on graph server
- # [21:06] <khuey> and the measurements seem to be kind of noisy
- # [21:06] <@davidb> yes
- # [21:06] <@davidb> that's sort of expected
- # [21:07] <@davidb> the linker virtual mem size seems to have been hovering on the edge of danger for a while
- # [21:07] <@davidb> do we have data going way back?
- # [21:07] <khuey> idk
- # [21:09] <@davidb> anyways I think we are just one piece of straw in the pile here.
- # [21:10] <@davidb> of course… that is not right-thinking
- # [21:10] <khuey> probably
- # [21:10] * khuey wants to turn off PGO
- # [21:10] <khuey> mostly so I don't have to deal with this crap anymore
- # [21:11] <@davidb> khuey: getting the perf data is key
- # [21:12] <khuey> yeah
- # [21:12] <khuey> I know
- # [21:12] * khuey just posted to dev.platform about it
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- # [21:15] <@davidb> yeah that's what i was responding to :)
- # [21:17] <@tbsaunde> khuey: couldn't we also just make all symbols in libxul public so we can put whatever we want in other libs?
- # [21:19] <@tbsaunde> has the sort of unfortunate effect of allowing people to poke at our internals
- # [21:19] <khuey> tbsaunde: that would probably kill startup perf
- # [21:19] <khuey> tons of relocations
- # [21:21] <@tbsaunde> yeah, true
- # [21:22] <@tbsaunde> we could export them manually with offsets, but that would suck
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- # [23:31] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620468 on bug 750283.
- # [23:31] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 750283 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [23:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750283 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, notify observers of a11y init / shutdown in nsAccessibilityService
- # [23:33] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 750216 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [23:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750216 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't export headers that aren't used outside
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- # Session Close: Thu May 03 00:00:01 2012
The end :)