/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-05-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 02 00:00:22 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:11] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  4. # [00:16] <@hub> crap. can't check in
  5. # [00:18] * Quits: mike5w3c (MikeS@454A1A4F.FF5089F.1771B9DE.IP) (Ping timeout)
  6. # [00:20] <Mark_Capella> #developers up to something...
  7. # [00:53] <@tbsaunde> isn't it that msvc is running out of address space again? :/
  8. # [00:55] <@hub> tbsaunde: once again
  9. # [00:56] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 750937 filed by isegall@mozilla.com.
  10. # [00:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750937 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, should be able to track cut and paste shortcuts by user
  11. # [00:56] <@tbsaunde> hub: yup, btw what do you have to check in?
  12. # [00:58] <@hub> tbsaunde: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750853
  13. # [00:58] <@firebot> Bug 750853 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, mozilla/a11y/Role.h:817: error: comma at end of enumerator list
  14. # [00:58] <@hub> I think I'll revert to putting back the keyword and let the checkin team take care of it
  15. # [00:59] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  16. # [01:00] <@tbsaunde> yeah
  17. # [01:01] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 620107 on bug 750853.
  18. # [01:07] <Mark_Capella> they've been on the addresses space thing for quite some time ... must be a stumper
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  20. # [01:30] <@hub> it is a recurring issue
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  30. # [02:16] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com changed the Component on bug 750954 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
  31. # [02:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750954 nor, --, ---, hub, UNCO, Regression: Accessibility: Mac OS X's 'speak selected text' speaks contents of text fields, not sele
  32. # [02:25] * Joins: Shnish (chatzilla@moz-6CDAFAD9.allocated.csupomona.edu)
  33. # [02:26] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Where would i be able to find the logs for A11Y_DEBUG_FOCUS?
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  38. # [02:39] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: I thought they were printed to the console
  39. # [02:40] <Shnish> tbasunde: i ran firefox.exe from the console and nothing was printed.
  40. # [02:41] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  41. # [02:42] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: hm, let me check
  42. # [02:44] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: you defined A11Y_DEBUG_FOCUS in accessible/src/base/FocusManager.h right and rebuilt right?
  43. # [02:44] <Shnish> yes
  44. # [02:45] <@tbsaunde> weird?
  45. # [02:45] <@tbsaunde> err, weird!
  46. # [02:45] <Shnish> if it should work then i can try to rebuild it
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  48. # [02:46] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: oh, have you enabled accessibility?
  49. # [02:46] <Shnish> tbsaunde: how would I do that?
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  52. # [02:48] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: easiest thing is probably run the following in the error console
  53. # [02:48] <@tbsaunde> var gAccRetrieval = Components.classes["@mozilla.org/accessibleRetrieval;1"]. getService(nsIAccessibleRetrieval);
  54. # [02:52] <Shnish> tbsaunde: It says "ReferenceError: nsIAccessibleRetrieval is not defined"
  55. # [02:58] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: ok, hm do you have domi addon installed?
  56. # [02:58] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Yes i do
  57. # [02:59] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: I think there is a menu button somewhere to inspect the application accessible that should start a11y
  58. # [02:59] <@tbsaunde> or anything else in domi that lets you inspect accessibility really
  59. # [03:07] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Thank you, I have found it
  60. # [03:09] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: yw
  61. # [03:10] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-BD26ECCD.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  62. # [03:11] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: are printfs working now?
  63. # [03:11] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Yes they are
  64. # [03:12] <@tbsaunde> ok, cool
  65. # [03:13] <@tbsaunde> if you want to know more stuff I'd dvise sking soonish, I'm probably going to sleep soon
  66. # [03:20] <Shnish> tbsaunde: 1 more question: On my DOMi it shows that all focus events are being fired before the menustart events.. I am guessing that it should be the other way around and that is what this bug is supposed to be
  67. # [03:21] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: I believe so
  68. # [03:23] <Shnish> tbsaunde: Ok, I will talk to surkov when he comes on. have a good night
  69. # [03:24] <@tbsaunde> Shnish: ok, you too, but you can always try and see if I'm around I might be :)
  70. # [03:25] <Shnish> tbsaunde: will do
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  75. # [04:34] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 748719 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  76. # [04:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748719 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, put ApplicationAccessible class into mozilla::a11y namespace
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  81. # [04:44] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620169 on bug 746084.
  82. # [04:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746084 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, provide extended logging for a11y module
  83. # [04:53] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  86. # [05:29] <drexler> surkov: hi, can you confirm whether the test i added in bug 445516 in the last patch is correct? It's in test_text.html
  87. # [05:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445516 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, ASSI, Support auto-generated=true text attribute on list bullets
  88. # [05:29] <drexler> surkov: i've been debugging and i'm not even hitting the code you pointed out which leads me to think my test might be incorrect.
  89. # [05:37] <@surkov> drexler: sure, I'll take a look
  90. # [05:37] <drexler> surkov: thanks :)
  91. # [05:42] <@surkov> drexler: yep, test looks ok
  92. # [05:47] <drexler> surkov: hmm...then the problem might be somewhere else...i'll keep on investigating
  93. # [05:47] <drexler> thanks.
  94. # [05:47] <@surkov> drexler: try to debug mochitest
  95. # [05:47] <drexler> surkov: actually been doing that..
  96. # [05:48] <@surkov> ok, cool
  97. # [05:53] <drexler> surkov: so far from what i can tell, the computed child indices(childIdx in TextAttrsMgr::GetAttributes) and thus hits the early return
  98. # [05:53] <drexler> surkov: i mean those indices are off..
  99. # [05:53] * drexler poking further..
  100. # [05:54] <@surkov> there's another attribute on it?
  101. # [05:55] <drexler> no there isn't
  102. # [06:02] * Joins: Jamie (jamie@moz-CA26021.jantrid.net)
  103. # [06:02] <Jamie> hi everyone :)
  104. # [06:03] <Jamie> surkov: long time no speak. Hope things are going well. :) I have a quick question to harass you with if you don't mind
  105. # [06:03] <@surkov> Jamie: hey, nice to hear you, sure
  106. # [06:04] <Jamie> surkov: It looks like the tag object attribute changed case in Firefox 14 somehow
  107. # [06:05] <Jamie> surkov: so it used to show "EMBED" but now it shows "embed"
  108. # [06:05] <@surkov> Jamie: I think so, is it a problem?
  109. # [06:05] <Jamie> in principle, this is fine, but I'm wondering whether this was an intentional change, as it causes a regression in NVDA
  110. # [06:05] <@surkov> Jamie: we switched to lowercase to be consistent through different markups
  111. # [06:06] * Jamie nods
  112. # [06:06] <Jamie> okay. In that case, I'll just handle both possibilities in NVDA
  113. # [06:06] <Jamie> users just need to update NVDA to handle ff14
  114. # [06:06] <@surkov> heh
  115. # [06:07] <Jamie> surkov: to clarify, was this definitely ff14 (ff13 is fine)?
  116. # [06:07] <Jamie> err, ff13 is upper case
  117. # [06:07] <@surkov> let me check
  118. # [06:08] <Jamie> surkov: if you ahve a bug number, that'd be fantastic.
  119. # [06:09] * Jamie somehow missed this one :)
  120. # [06:09] <@surkov> Jamie: bug 736059
  121. # [06:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736059 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, do some cleanups of nsAccessible::GetAttributesInternal
  122. # [06:10] <@surkov> it has not striking name
  123. # [06:10] <Jamie> ah. <nods>
  124. # [06:10] <@surkov> so you missed it
  125. # [06:10] <Jamie> okay. any idea when ff14 goes stable?
  126. # [06:11] * Jamie hopes we can get this into an NVDA release before ff14 goes stable
  127. # [06:12] <@surkov> Jamie: June 5, 2012 it goes to beta
  128. # [06:12] * Jamie nods
  129. # [06:12] <Jamie> we'll hopefully push an NVDA release before then
  130. # [06:12] <@surkov> thank you!
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  134. # [06:46] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 620022 on bug 747272.
  135. # [06:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=747272 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Filter out whitespace text leaves in navigation
  136. # [06:51] <@hub> but m-i is still closed :-(
  137. # [06:52] <@hub> if it is android only, you can check in on m-c with a=android-only
  138. # [06:52] <@hub> (closed because of Windows)
  139. # [06:59] <@MarcoZ> hub, et al, do you know if tests are affected, too? e. g. I'd like to properly disable the tests for bug 746970 on Mac, but this reenables them on Windows because they accidentally got disabled by my stupid Copy&Paste error.
  140. # [06:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746970 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, events/test_focus_general.xul, test timing out on mbb tests
  141. # [07:00] <@hub> MarcoZ: I think you should be able to get it approved to land on m-c if it is test only
  142. # [07:01] <@hub> MarcoZ: it is the Windows linking that is barfing again
  143. # [07:05] <@MarcoZ> hub: Understood and landed.
  144. # [07:07] <@MarcoZ> hub: I meant to disable that test on Mac, but because the previous files all had a conditional "if mac", I barfed on this and one other file that I had previously fixed.
  145. # [07:07] <@MarcoZ> In these cases it was"if not mac". Ouch!
  146. # [07:09] <@hub> happens
  147. # [07:10] <@hub> MarcoZ: btw we'll have to discuss whether we should bother with a11y on 10.6 or not
  148. # [07:10] <@hub> I'm still on 10.6, but I start to believe I should just upgrade
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  151. # [07:16] <@hub> MarcoZ: if you were to land in YTZ, it would be less convenient as you need to take a Ferry to get downtown... you don't have the nice limo service
  152. # [07:18] <@MarcoZ> Hub: A ferry is not a problem for either me or Hexe. It's just an extra transportation step. But from Germany, all fly to yyz anyway.
  153. # [07:18] <@MarcoZ> Hub: Are there that many differences between SL and Lion?
  154. # [07:18] <@hub> yeah extra step :-).
  155. # [07:18] <@MarcoZ> I mean a11y wise.
  156. # [07:18] <@hub> I don't know how many difference in term of a11y, but I know there are
  157. # [07:18] <@MarcoZ> I know that there were many VoiceOver enhancements that prompted a lot of blind folks to upgrade.
  158. # [07:19] <@hub> which is my point
  159. # [07:20] <@MarcoZ> I moderate a German Apple accessibility mailing list, with over 300 mostly blind members, and I don't believe anyone is on Snow Leopard there any more.
  160. # [07:21] <@MarcoZ> I'd be fine with "try on your own risk" statement for Snow Leopard and Firefox a11y.
  161. # [07:25] <@hub> yeah. I just want to make sure we do the right thing
  162. # [07:25] <@hub> I might really have to bite the bullet and install Lion
  163. # [07:28] <@MarcoZ> hub: I found it not to be a pain at all moving from SL to Lion on my MacBook.
  164. # [07:28] <@MarcoZ> Hub: BTW: Craig is the surname, James is the first name of this gentleman. ;)
  165. # [07:29] * @MarcoZ files two bugs in the Apple bug reporter w.r.t. Firefox VoiceOver interoperability.
  166. # [07:30] <Jamie> So I'm guessing AccessFu is the name of the Mozilla screen reader, but what on earth does Fu stand for? :)
  167. # [07:30] <@hub> MarcoZ: scheisse
  168. # [07:31] <@hub> MarcoZ: I didn't mean
  169. # [07:31] <@hub> MarcoZ: I used to have full Radar access. By Full I mean as full as it can be as an employee, which still mean very restricted
  170. # [07:32] <@hub> Jamie: it is javascript, and mostly for mobile.
  171. # [07:32] <@hub> Jamie: eeejay does that for Android
  172. # [07:32] <Jamie> hub: mm, I figured that... I was just wondering about the name
  173. # [07:32] <@hub> script-fu, google-fu
  174. # [07:32] <@hub> I'm just English as second language
  175. # [07:33] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: I also haven't quite caught the "fu" part yet.
  176. # [07:33] <@hub> Kung-fu
  177. # [07:33] <@MarcoZ> Eek, bugreport.apple.com is down.
  178. # [07:34] <Jamie> I mean there's fu as in fubar, but that's not the meaning here :)
  179. # [07:34] <Jamie> ah, kung-fu, yeah
  180. # [07:34] <@hub> MarcoZ: works here
  181. # [07:35] <@hub> MarcoZ: I actually, force of habit, used http://radar.apple.com
  182. # [07:35] <@hub> and I could login with my personal AppleID
  183. # [07:35] <@hub> (it redirect to bugreport)
  184. # [07:35] <Jamie> Apple's bug reporting systme drives me insane. :) I love the "let's close a bug as duplicate, but not give you any way to find out the status of the original bug" thing
  185. # [07:36] <@hub> Jamie: you know, even as an employee it happens
  186. # [07:36] <Jamie> I wonder how many duplicates they actually get
  187. # [07:36] <Jamie> surely it's inefficient as all hell
  188. # [07:36] <@hub> Jamie: I filed bugs that disappeared and was never allowed to even see them again
  189. # [07:36] <@MarcoZ> I'd suspect hundreds of thousands.
  190. # [07:36] <Jamie> I would ahve thought the inefficiency induced would more than justify being a bit more open, but apparently not :)
  191. # [07:37] <@hub> the worse is trying to get the triaged components based on code names
  192. # [07:37] <@hub> Jamie: open is not part of the deal. secrecy seems to work great
  193. # [07:37] <Jamie> hub: Clearly. except not always.
  194. # [07:37] <@hub> Jamie: the overhead is compensated by it
  195. # [07:37] * Jamie nods
  196. # [07:37] <@hub> Jamie: and yes it was a PITA
  197. # [07:38] <Jamie> I guess it's fine when you have enough money to employ the extra people required to triage :)
  198. # [07:39] <@MarcoZ> Hub: "An error has occurred. Please report the error to Apple Inc. by emailing the error detail to "
  199. # [07:39] <@hub> MarcoZ: ouch
  200. # [07:39] <@hub> MarcoZ: not good
  201. # [07:39] <Jamie> As a bug reporter, though, it's actually a turn-off for me and I often don't file bugs because of it. I hate wasting my time when I suspect someone else has already filed the bug
  202. # [07:39] <@hub> not to worry, internal radar is the most hated app
  203. # [07:39] <@hub> more than Xcode
  204. # [07:39] <Jamie> MarcoZ: I've seen that many times before. I am starting ot suspect it's something to do with not logging out of radar properly
  205. # [07:40] <Jamie> it took days to resolve for me last time
  206. # [07:40] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: Hadn't beein logged in for weeks.
  207. # [07:40] <@hub> Jamie: on Android, when an app crash, you get offered to report it. But before reporting it you need to reed the novel-sized EULA for the reporting system
  208. # [07:40] <Jamie> MarcoZ: hmm, I'm probably wrong then :)
  209. # [07:40] * Jamie grins
  210. # [07:40] <@hub> the bug reporting stuff lock you out very quickly
  211. # [07:40] <@hub> not to worry
  212. # [07:41] <Jamie> B2G, anyone? :)
  213. # [07:43] <@hub> Jamie: yeah, right on
  214. # [07:43] <@hub> Jamie: we intend to do something
  215. # [07:43] <@hub> just not for the first release as it will be too short for that
  216. # [07:44] <@hub> that's also why eeejay write AccessFu
  217. # [07:44] <@hub> so we can reuse it on b2g
  218. # [07:44] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 620059 on bug 748724.
  219. # [07:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
  220. # [07:46] <Jamie> hub: <nods> I know. to be honest, I'm more excited about AccessFu on B2G than Android
  221. # [07:47] <Jamie> The Android accessibility story irritates me so much taht I refuse to touch it on principle
  222. # [07:47] <Jamie> at least for now :)
  223. # [07:47] <@hub> Jamie: android frustrate me
  224. # [07:47] <@hub> Jamie: for a lot of reason
  225. # [07:48] <Jamie> Android accessibility is just so fragmented and badly implemented across the board that I don't think it can ever be gracefully saved
  226. # [07:49] <@hub> not only its accessibility, that's the worst part
  227. # [07:49] <@hub> btw in 4.0, official the OEM can't remove a11y
  228. # [07:49] <@hub> but then HTC "skin" isn't accessible
  229. # [07:50] <Jamie> Even Windows accessibility, with all of its ugliness, si about 1000 times better, and that's really saying something
  230. # [07:50] <Jamie> and Microsoft at least had an excuse: they started doing this years ago before any of the weird and wonderful stuff we have now
  231. # [07:51] * @MarcoZ nods. I hardly touch my Android phone for the same reasons.
  232. # [07:51] <@MarcoZ> Hub: FWIW, and WTF, bugreporter worked in Safari for me. Here's our first of the two bugs:
  233. # [07:51] <@hub> I can't really speak of Windows, but that doesn't surprise me
  234. # [07:51] <@MarcoZ> https://bugreport.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/RadarWeb.woa/57/wo/cI8uHmOVOXslaUTvrsafs0/7.66
  235. # [07:52] <@hub> MarcoZ: the URL aren't bookmarkable
  236. # [07:52] <@MarcoZ> Hub, ouch!
  237. # [07:52] <@hub> MarcoZ: and I likely have no access to the bugs anyway
  238. # [07:52] <@hub> welcome to the sucky life of Webobjects
  239. # [07:52] <Jamie> MarcoZ: you really expected that anything at Apple would be open? :)
  240. # [07:53] <Jamie> Btw, congrats on a11y enabled by default for Mac OS Firefox. That really is fantastic news, even if there's still work to do
  241. # [07:54] <Jamie> MarcoZ: do you know whether anyone will be working on pdf.js a11y in the near term? It has some really exciting potential in terms of being another accessible pdf reader
  242. # [07:54] <@hub> Jamie: it is already as accessible as the canvas :-)
  243. # [07:54] <@hub> isn't it?
  244. # [07:55] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: Oh I remember the first Windows a11y builds, they weren't much better than this, and look how far we've come! I'm optimistic that we'll have these things ironed out in no time! :)
  245. # [07:55] <@MarcoZ> And thanks, btw!
  246. # [07:55] <@MarcoZ> Hub: If you can, try ID 11361238.
  247. # [07:56] <@MarcoZ> Jamie: hub: Yes, the one thing we can try to do is to also implement PDF tag support. The problem is that, if the PDF itself is crap, there's not much we can get out of it.
  248. # [07:56] <@hub> holly sh*t they reach 8 digits?
  249. # [07:57] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-718D9655.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  250. # [07:57] <@hub> MarcoZ: can't get it
  251. # [07:57] <@hub> MarcoZ: nor did I expect to
  252. # [08:05] <@MarcoZ> OK, filed the one about performance, too.
  253. # [08:07] <@MarcoZ> hub: The new one is 11361293, so in these few minutes, over 50 bugs had been filed.
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  255. # [08:11] <Jamie> MarcoZ: that's true, but there are actually a fair amount of accessible pdfs these days
  256. # [08:11] <Jamie> MarcoZ: my point is that right now, there's no other accessible pdf reader (really) except Adobe REader itself
  257. # [08:11] <Jamie> MarcoZ: it'd be good to have another alternative, especially when Gecko's a11y exposure is pretty awesome as it is
  258. # [08:13] <@hub> is Preview on MacOS accessible?
  259. # [08:14] <@MarcoZ> hub: Yes, but it also doesn't read PDF accessibility tags.
  260. # [08:15] * @MarcoZ is now in the background, doing some morning routine. Breakfast, dog walking etc.
  261. # [08:17] <@hub> MarcoZ: yeah I heard about that one
  262. # [08:17] <@hub> I'll soon go to bed
  263. # [08:17] <Mark_Capella> surkov: you mention not exporting the header files for bug 748724
  264. # [08:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
  265. # [08:17] <Mark_Capella> but wont this be required until bug 748716 lands?
  266. # [08:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748716 nor, --, mozilla15, markcapella, ASSI, don't export ApplicationAccessibleWrap.h
  267. # [08:18] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: it seems so
  268. # [08:19] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: but I think you can base your patch on top of that bug
  269. # [08:19] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: do you use mercurial queues?
  270. # [08:19] <Mark_Capella> ok ... yes i do and yes i can
  271. # [08:19] <@surkov> anyway that bug was landed on inbound and I will land your patch on inbound too
  272. # [08:20] <Mark_Capella> same with GetName() bug then? Is what I was talking about in this bug and having to rebase ...
  273. # [08:20] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: actually I work on top of trunk but keep all patches landed on inbound in mq until they land on trunk, after that I pull the trunk
  274. # [08:20] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: sure
  275. # [08:20] <@surkov> that's lesser work for you
  276. # [08:21] <Mark_Capella> good ... i wanted to anyhow .... i've been basing each patch as an individual off most recent nightly ... not combining them
  277. # [08:23] <Mark_Capella> surkov ... ill pull a new nightly ... qpush the "GetName" patch, then the "dont export" patch, then this "densify RootAccessible"
  278. # [08:23] <Mark_Capella> one and start work on the changes you just suggested
  279. # [08:23] <Mark_Capella> fyi
  280. # [08:25] <@surkov> not sure what means 'don't export' (qdel -r ?), in your case you'd need to have three patches in mq, RootAcc patch on top of two other
  281. # [08:26] <@surkov> but you're not guaranteed of mergins if you didn't import landed patch (usually I do some nit fixes before landing)
  282. # [08:26] <@surkov> but not high probability
  283. # [08:28] <Mark_Capella> GetName() patch .... then "Dont export ApplicationAccessible" which gives us the makefile fix, then RootAcc on top
  284. # [08:28] <Mark_Capella> so i can pull RootAcc.h exports and etc. from that point
  285. # [08:29] <Mark_Capella> and using your final GetName() patch from bugzilla ...
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  287. # [08:45] <@surkov> yep
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  290. # [09:00] <Mark_Capella> oh ... someones elses patch clashed ... 8 reject files ... not too bad
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  305. # [11:21] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751079 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  306. # [11:21] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620234 on bug 751079.
  307. # [11:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751079 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, get rid misuses of nsAccessible::GetBoundaryFrame
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  322. # [13:25] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 620249 on bug 748601.
  323. # [13:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748601 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, nsMaiInterfaceText.cpp should check internal role not atk role
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  329. # [14:34] <@MarcoZ> Yawn
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  343. # [15:19] * @davidb reboots into windows
  344. # [15:27] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Did you survive that? *g* Hi!
  345. # [15:27] <@davidb> heh
  346. # [15:31] * @davidb fires up windows speech rec
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  352. # [15:54] * @MarcoZ is really curious if Apple will help us determine why Firefox + VoiceOver are so laggy.
  353. # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> surkov: In case you missed it yesterday, I found out that in XUL, there is no lag at all. The lag is only in web content.
  354. # [15:55] <@MarcoZ> s/yesterday/on Monday/
  355. # [15:55] <@surkov> MarcoZ: ok
  356. # [15:55] <@surkov> a big tree perhaps
  357. # [15:56] <@MarcoZ> Even on small pages there's a noticeable lag. about:home for example.
  358. # [15:58] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 620249 on bug 748601.
  359. # [15:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748601 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, nsMaiInterfaceText.cpp should check internal role not atk role
  360. # [15:58] <@surkov> hm, strange
  361. # [16:04] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-585D5EFC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  362. # [16:11] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested feedback from trev.saunders@gma il.com for attachment 620298 on bug 748724.
  363. # [16:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
  364. # [16:13] <@davidb> MarcoZ: thanks for adding fun to the agenda :)
  365. # [16:14] <@MarcoZ> davidb: :D
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  368. # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> Good morning hub! :)
  369. # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I'm wondering...and I will ask eeejay when he's on, if it makes sense for me to get B2G working with accessibility and test on there. Android *really* frustrates me everytime I touch it outside Fennec.
  370. # [16:17] <@davidb> we definitely need to get android tested. i'm going to test it as well.
  371. # [16:17] <@MarcoZ> OK!
  372. # [16:21] * @MarcoZ will bite that bullet.
  373. # [16:24] <@davidb> it is sad
  374. # [16:25] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And I don't see it changing in the foreseeable future. Jamie, Hub and I talked about this earlier today, too briefly.
  375. # [16:25] <@davidb> how is Jamie?
  376. # [16:25] <@MarcoZ> He sounded fine.
  377. # [16:26] <@MarcoZ> Jamie said something along the lines that even Windows accessibility is a thousand times better than even IceCream Sandwich, and that says a lot, IMO.
  378. # [16:33] <@hub> no surprise here
  379. # [16:33] * @eeejay nods
  380. # [16:34] * @MarcoZ connects to Vidyo.
  381. # [16:35] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
  382. # [16:38] <@davidb|mtg> surkov, tbsaunde ping (meeting)
  383. # [16:39] <@surkov> davidb|mtg: url?
  384. # [16:39] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: vidyo
  385. # [16:40] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: v.mozilla.com
  386. # [16:40] <@surkov> ok
  387. # [16:42] <@eeejay> hub, you on linux vidyo?
  388. # [16:44] <@hub> eeejay: iPad
  389. # [16:44] <@eeejay> gotcha
  390. # [16:45] <@hub> linux is giving the ambient light
  391. # [16:45] <@eeejay> cool
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  394. # [16:47] <@hub> eeejay: I'll try vidyo on Linux the day it does not require Flash to login
  395. # [16:48] * Joins: arky (arky@C5C7F1B2.B3AABDF5.FA662B63.IP)
  396. # [16:49] <@eeejay> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Mobile/AccessFu
  397. # [17:09] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: bug 745986
  398. # [17:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745986 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Display page loading states
  399. # [17:10] <@davidb|mtg> eeejay: "huge gaps between answers"
  400. # [17:11] <@davidb|mtg> eeejay: "merging is always a problem"
  401. # [17:16] <@davidb|mtg> hub: are you in a basement?
  402. # [17:19] <@davidb|mtg> MarcoZ: I hope I didn't cut you off and forget to get back to you earlier (i think i did)
  403. # [17:19] <@davidb|mtg> sorry
  404. # [17:20] <@hub> davidb|mtg: nah
  405. # [17:20] * davidb|mtg is now known as davidb
  406. # [17:20] <@hub> just that I don't have a chair here
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  408. # [17:20] <@davidb> ah heh
  409. # [17:20] <@hub> so I decided to lay down
  410. # [17:20] <@davidb> i almost saw you drift
  411. # [17:20] <@davidb> patch review meta discussion isn't for everyone i guess :)
  412. # [17:21] <@hub> I was listening
  413. # [17:21] <@davidb> good good
  414. # [17:22] <@MarcoZ> davidb: You didn't cut me off. I got the point across that I wanted to make. :)
  415. # [17:22] <@davidb> phew
  416. # [17:23] <@davidb> surkov: do you use vidyo on mac?
  417. # [17:25] <@surkov> davidb: yes
  418. # [17:25] <@davidb> ok cool… i'm not sure why the meeting status showed you as so noisy
  419. # [17:26] <@davidb> things to try are: headset, or clicking the mic icon to mute/unmute
  420. # [17:26] * Quits: arky (arky@C5C7F1B2.B3AABDF5.FA662B63.IP) (Ping timeout)
  421. # [17:26] <@davidb> MarcoZ: you might want to get a headset with a button that mutes
  422. # [17:26] <@davidb> the default ones IT supplies have one
  423. # [17:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you had 0 noise which was awesome
  424. # [17:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you using SIP?
  425. # [17:28] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Those are USB only AFAIK. I need one with a single connector for mike and earphones, for the iPad.
  426. # [17:28] <@MarcoZ> 3.5 mm.
  427. # [17:28] <@davidb> ah
  428. # [17:28] <@davidb> maybe if you can find the mic hole you could stick a thumb over it :)
  429. # [17:28] <@davidb> when the voices are clear, the meetings are awseomer
  430. # [17:28] <@MarcoZ> I can try. :)
  431. # [17:28] <@davidb> thanks :)
  432. # [17:30] <@MarcoZ> hub: Did I hear correctly that you've an idea about bug 750612 already?
  433. # [17:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750612 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] Too much is exposed to VoiceOver that is actually not currently visible/interactable
  434. # [17:30] <@davidb> Finally I'll again note: http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/post/19584943356/ive-got-ears-what-more-do-i-need
  435. # [17:30] * Quits: mike5w3c (MikeS@moz-2E518994.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: mike5w3c)
  436. # [17:30] <@davidb> the alt text is "Asked to use a headset… gave zero fucks"
  437. # [17:30] <@davidb> :)
  438. # [17:31] <@davidb> that's for y'all
  439. # [17:31] <@MarcoZ> LOL
  440. # [17:31] <@davidb> MarcoZ: that bug is interesting.
  441. # [17:32] <@MarcoZ> Yeah too bad these MozillaMemes are all pictures.
  442. # [17:32] <@davidb> I wonder if Safari prunes/breaks it's tree
  443. # [17:32] <@MarcoZ> I found the "Seven things you may or may not know about me" blog post meme much more fun obviously.
  444. # [17:32] <@davidb> heheh
  445. # [17:32] <@davidb> that needs a revival
  446. # [17:32] * @davidb heads over to windows speech rec
  447. # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> Have fun!
  448. # [17:34] <@davidb> the office will think i'm talking to myself
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  456. # [18:01] <@hub> MarcoZ: yeah. Safari does not show the multiple tab
  457. # [18:01] <@hub> it only show the front one
  458. # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> Hub: So, the other accessibles are not there?
  459. # [18:05] <@hub> MarcoZ: no they are not
  460. # [18:05] <@hub> I believe the fix is in the traversal
  461. # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> hub: That means if you have two tabs open and switch between them, Safari recreates its tree for the document each time? OMG!
  462. # [18:06] <@hub> basically
  463. # [18:06] * Joins: sam (sam@756375E.1AF5F21E.247B233F.IP)
  464. # [18:06] <@hub> that's already how it works anyway
  465. # [18:06] * @MarcoZ is baffled. Interesting!
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  469. # [18:19] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: well, it could keep the tree round and just not make it available
  470. # [18:20] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no, cell phone, I have no idea why it was quiet
  471. # [18:20] <@davidb> tbsaunde: did you dial direct? a voip caller showed up
  472. # [18:23] <@tbsaunde> davidb: direct?
  473. # [18:23] <@davidb> tbsaunde: did you dial a phone number?
  474. # [18:23] <@davidb> i guess the phone number bridges in via voip
  475. # [18:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: 650-903-0800
  476. # [18:25] <@davidb> ok cool
  477. # [18:25] <@davidb> yeah i'm silly. i'm sure that bridges and shows up as voip
  478. # [18:25] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  479. # [18:26] <@davidb> MarcoZ: what were the dates in Sept?
  480. # [18:28] <@hub> that's MTV phone number
  481. # [18:30] <@tbsaunde> usually a11y isn't my biggest anoyance with android fwiw
  482. # [18:33] <@davidb> eeejay: how would you feel about having a crappy reviewer?
  483. # [18:34] <@eeejay> davidb, hum
  484. # [18:34] <@eeejay> davidb, are you being humble?
  485. # [18:35] <@davidb> eeejay: if I take the time, I can do well.
  486. # [18:35] <@davidb> So I need to make the time.
  487. # [18:35] <@eeejay> davidb, if you have it :)
  488. # [18:35] <@davidb> eeejay: what can really help is doing live reviews. we could Skype while i review.
  489. # [18:35] <@davidb> it would speed me up 10x
  490. # [18:37] <@hub> davidb: the CNE is open also around August
  491. # [18:37] <@eeejay> davidb, that sounds good.
  492. # [18:38] <@hub> davidb: we can go on roller coasters :-)
  493. # [18:38] <@davidb> indeed
  494. # [18:38] <@davidb> i can watch you guys go on roller coasters
  495. # [18:38] <@davidb> unless you want to see me scream
  496. # [18:38] <@davidb> actually i don't scream i just sweat
  497. # [18:39] <@eeejay> davidb, oh!
  498. # [18:39] <@eeejay> i forgot to say
  499. # [18:39] <@eeejay> davidb, my talk was accepted in open source bridge
  500. # [18:40] <@eeejay> http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/849
  501. # [18:40] <@davidb> excellent
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  503. # [18:44] <@hub> davidb: and I might drive down for the work week, which mean that if we do a road trip I have room for transportation
  504. # [18:44] <@davidb> woot!
  505. # [18:46] <@hub> note that I only drive down if Nancy decide to tag along. if I'm alone train is fine
  506. # [18:50] <@davidb> yep
  507. # [18:50] <@davidb> car rental is also an option
  508. # [18:50] <@davidb> either from montreal or local
  509. # [18:50] <@davidb> we'll see
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  512. # [19:04] <@MarcoZ> davidb: September 17 to September 28.
  513. # [19:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: What work week are we talking about? One all-hands in MV?
  514. # [19:05] * @MarcoZ thought there wasn't going to be one this year.
  515. # [19:07] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  516. # [19:08] <@davidb> a11y work week
  517. # [19:08] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
  518. # [19:09] * davidb|mtg is now known as davidb
  519. # [19:09] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
  520. # [19:13] <@hub> davidb|mtg: not from Mtl. It does not make sense.
  521. # [19:14] <@davidb|mtg> ok
  522. # [19:14] <@hub> davidb|mtg: local, for sure if needed
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  525. # [19:21] <@MarcoZ> davidb|mtg: When do you envision this one to happen?
  526. # [19:21] <@davidb|mtg> MarcoZ: i sent email
  527. # [19:21] <@davidb|mtg> august 27th
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  532. # [19:26] <@MarcoZ> Found it.
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  537. # [19:31] * @MarcoZ is off for the evening. See you all tomorrow!
  538. # [19:31] * Quits: @MarcoZ (Daily@moz-8F50F3E1.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: l8er)
  539. # [19:42] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  540. # [19:46] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-E31CD2CB.mozilla.org)
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  543. # [20:11] * davidb|mtg is now known as davidb
  544. # [20:17] <@davidb> can you believe i haven't gotten back to the windows speech rec tutorial
  545. # [20:17] <@davidb> fml
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  553. # [21:00] <@hub> I wonder if ou a11y rework didn't contribute to bloat libxul.dll
  554. # [21:00] <@hub> things like name spaces
  555. # [21:00] <@hub> and such
  556. # [21:01] * khuey prepares the gallows for hub
  557. # [21:02] <@davidb> hub: i wondered as well.
  558. # [21:02] <khuey> when did this stuff land?
  559. # [21:02] <@davidb> it started landing quite a while ago
  560. # [21:02] <@davidb> khuey: what is the bug # again?
  561. # [21:02] <khuey> for what?
  562. # [21:02] <khuey> the libxul stuff?
  563. # [21:03] <@davidb> yeah the PGO OOM
  564. # [21:03] <khuey> 750661
  565. # [21:03] <@davidb> ty
  566. # [21:05] <@davidb> hmm I wonder if that change set range tells the story
  567. # [21:05] * @davidb wanders over to bug 710840
  568. # [21:05] <khuey> there's nothing in that range that's an obvious culprit
  569. # [21:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710840 maj, P1, ---, nobody, NEW, Track peak virtual memory usage of link.exe process during libxul PGO link on graph server
  570. # [21:06] <khuey> and the measurements seem to be kind of noisy
  571. # [21:06] <@davidb> yes
  572. # [21:06] <@davidb> that's sort of expected
  573. # [21:07] <@davidb> the linker virtual mem size seems to have been hovering on the edge of danger for a while
  574. # [21:07] <@davidb> do we have data going way back?
  575. # [21:07] <khuey> idk
  576. # [21:09] <@davidb> anyways I think we are just one piece of straw in the pile here.
  577. # [21:10] <@davidb> of course… that is not right-thinking
  578. # [21:10] <khuey> probably
  579. # [21:10] * khuey wants to turn off PGO
  580. # [21:10] <khuey> mostly so I don't have to deal with this crap anymore
  581. # [21:11] <@davidb> khuey: getting the perf data is key
  582. # [21:12] <khuey> yeah
  583. # [21:12] <khuey> I know
  584. # [21:12] * khuey just posted to dev.platform about it
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  586. # [21:15] <@davidb> yeah that's what i was responding to :)
  587. # [21:17] <@tbsaunde> khuey: couldn't we also just make all symbols in libxul public so we can put whatever we want in other libs?
  588. # [21:19] <@tbsaunde> has the sort of unfortunate effect of allowing people to poke at our internals
  589. # [21:19] <khuey> tbsaunde: that would probably kill startup perf
  590. # [21:19] <khuey> tons of relocations
  591. # [21:21] <@tbsaunde> yeah, true
  592. # [21:22] <@tbsaunde> we could export them manually with offsets, but that would suck
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  595. # [21:28] * @davidb waves to aaronlev and mdcurran
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  603. # [23:31] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620468 on bug 750283.
  604. # [23:31] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 750283 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  605. # [23:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750283 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, notify observers of a11y init / shutdown in nsAccessibilityService
  606. # [23:33] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 750216 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  607. # [23:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750216 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't export headers that aren't used outside
  608. # [23:35] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  609. # Session Close: Thu May 03 00:00:01 2012

The end :)