/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-05-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu May 03 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  27. # [02:20] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751428 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  28. # [02:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751428 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Remove spaces and catch exceptions when localizing role names
  29. # [02:20] * ctalbert is now known as ctalbert|afk
  30. # [02:21] <@hub> does anyone know how I can know a PROPERTYPAGE inside a PANE is the one that's "selected"
  31. # [02:21] <@hub> NativeState() does not seem to return anything
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  37. # [02:33] <@davidb> eeejay: a review already eh?
  38. # [02:33] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP)
  39. # [02:33] <@eeejay> davidb, i am ready for your brutal honesty
  40. # [02:33] <@davidb> oh this was from alex?
  41. # [02:34] <@davidb> oh tab switch error
  42. # [02:34] <@eeejay> davidb, no. from me
  43. # [02:34] <@davidb> ok
  44. # [02:34] <@hub> eeejay: you suck.
  45. # [02:34] <@hub> is that brutal enough ;-) ?
  46. # [02:34] <@davidb> eeejay: why do some role names have spaces?
  47. # [02:34] <@davidb> hub: it is up there
  48. # [02:35] <@eeejay> hub, ouch, yeah. i'll get back to you with an improved me
  49. # [02:36] <@eeejay> davidb, i don't know! it is the strings from RoleMap.h
  50. # [02:36] <@eeejay> davidb, which is what nsIAccessibleRetrieval gives
  51. # [02:37] <@davidb> ok well i can investigate that on another bug
  52. # [02:41] <@eeejay> didn't realize it is a problem.
  53. # [02:41] <@davidb> unexplained things like this can uncover more serious flaws
  54. # [02:45] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  57. # [02:53] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 620540 on bug 750612.
  58. # [02:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750612 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] Too much is exposed to VoiceOver that is actually not currently visible/interactable
  59. # [02:53] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@69F4FD58.5BCEC6DB.DA78B690.IP) (Ping timeout)
  60. # [02:54] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from the wind for attachment 620532 on bug 751428.
  61. # [02:54] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 620536 on bug 751428.
  62. # [02:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751428 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Remove spaces and catch exceptions when localizing role names
  63. # [02:54] <@davidb> firebot: you are slow
  64. # [02:55] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com cancelled review? for attachment 620532 on bug 751428.
  65. # [02:55] <@firebot> davidb: But you are 'talking to a bot and that's just sad.'...
  66. # [02:55] * @davidb cries a little
  67. # [02:56] <@davidb> btw eeejay don't worry that cancelled review was an obsolete patch
  68. # [02:57] <@eeejay> oh yeah, bugzilla is weird
  69. # [03:05] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751435 filed by dbolter@mozilla.com.
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  71. # [03:13] <@eeejay> davidb, i think you misunderstood me earlier, sorry :P
  72. # [03:13] * @eeejay runds out to get sushi
  73. # [03:14] <@davidb> eeejay: hmm?
  74. # [03:14] <@davidb> about what?
  75. # [03:14] <@eeejay> davidb, the spaces are not artifacts, and are not trailing
  76. # [03:14] <@eeejay> it is in the actual name
  77. # [03:14] <@davidb> eeejay: give me an example?
  78. # [03:15] <@eeejay> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751435#c1
  79. # [03:15] <@eeejay> davidb, "check menu item"
  80. # [03:15] <@davidb> ah i see the bug.
  81. # [03:15] <@davidb> ok cool
  82. # [03:15] <@davidb> you don't want the spaces because of the way it sounds when spoken?
  83. # [03:16] <@eeejay> davidb, no. i don't mind the spaces, but I use the role strings to lookup localized names
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  85. # [03:16] <@davidb> ah i see
  86. # [03:16] <@davidb> ok cool
  87. # [03:16] <@davidb> bon appetite
  88. # [03:16] <@eeejay> davidb, and afaik, you can't have spaces in the keys in a properties file
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  90. # [03:17] <@davidb> right
  91. # [03:19] <@davidb> eeejay: switching to .apply… did that fix anything?
  92. # [03:20] <@davidb> (i seem to recall how that works)
  93. # [03:20] <@davidb> (but am curious about this case)
  94. # [03:26] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 620536 on bug 751428.
  95. # [03:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751428 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Remove spaces and catch exceptions when localizing role names
  96. # [03:43] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah, mock encapsulation, that's what i meant :)
  97. # [03:43] <@davidb> heheh
  98. # [03:43] <@davidb> well i should have said privacy to avoid the double def
  99. # [03:43] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah, (re apply) sometimes a js method doesn't know its own self (this)
  100. # [03:43] <@davidb> right
  101. # [03:44] <@davidb> in this case how was it manifesting an error?
  102. # [03:44] <@davidb> why am i using long words?
  103. # [03:44] <@davidb> eeejay: that was fast sushi
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  105. # [03:44] <@eeejay> sushi to go
  106. # [03:44] <@davidb> ah
  107. # [03:45] <@davidb> hub: did your patch speed things up?
  108. # [03:47] <@hub> davidb: it is not really about speed but more about correctness
  109. # [03:47] <@hub> we should show stuff that is not visible
  110. # [03:48] <@davidb> i haven't looked deeply at your patch so i'm not sure where you are putting the bail
  111. # [03:49] <@davidb> i'd be curious if safari prunes
  112. # [03:49] <@davidb> i need to stop trying to think now
  113. # [03:50] <@davidb> i had little sleep last night (was watching videos of families reunited)
  114. # [03:50] <@hub> safari does
  115. # [03:51] <@hub> but this is in the same vain as the CSS display:none that Marco is complaining about
  116. # [03:51] <@hub> because it is still visible to screen reader
  117. # [03:52] <@davidb> ok
  118. # [03:53] <@hub> I'm sure that if it is wrong, surkov will tell me :-D
  119. # [03:53] <@davidb> heh
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  126. # [04:38] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from trev.saunders@gma il.com for attachment 620564 on bug 750287.
  127. # [04:38] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 750287 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  128. # [04:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750287 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't cache is form fill enabled pref
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  135. # [06:13] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 748716 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  136. # [06:13] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com set the Resolution field on bug 748716 to FIXED.
  137. # [06:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748716 nor, --, mozilla15, markcapella, RESO FIXED, don't export ApplicationAccessibleWrap.h
  138. # [06:13] * Parts: ehsan (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP) (vanished into thin air...)
  139. # [06:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 750193 from --- to mozilla15.
  140. # [06:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750193 nor, --, mozilla15, maxli, NEW, get rid useless DEBUG_A11Y code
  141. # [06:20] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 750196 from --- to mozilla15.
  142. # [06:20] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 750853 from --- to mozilla15.
  143. # [06:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750196 nor, --, mozilla15, maxli, NEW, remove ROLE_SYSTEM_ definitions
  144. # [06:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750853 nor, --, mozilla15, hub, NEW, mozilla/a11y/Role.h:817: error: comma at end of enumerator list
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  146. # [06:23] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 748601 from --- to mozilla15.
  147. # [06:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748601 nor, --, mozilla15, maxli, NEW, nsMaiInterfaceText.cpp should check internal role not atk role
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  150. # [06:33] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 740747 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  151. # [06:33] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com set the Resolution field on bug 740747 to FIXED.
  152. # [06:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740747 nor, --, mozilla15, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, dexpcom nsAccessible::GetName
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  159. # [07:22] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Target Milestone on bug 749812 from --- to mozilla15.
  160. # [07:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=749812 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Display text editing changes
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  162. # [07:23] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Target Milestone on bug 747272 from --- to mozilla15.
  163. # [07:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=747272 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Filter out whitespace text leaves in navigation
  164. # [07:24] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Target Milestone on bug 751428 from --- to mozilla15.
  165. # [07:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751428 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Remove spaces and catch exceptions when localizing role names
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  180. # [08:16] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com denied feedback for attachment 620540 on bug 750612.
  181. # [08:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750612 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] Too much is exposed to VoiceOver that is actually not currently visible/interactable
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  185. # [08:32] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 620540 on bug 750612.
  186. # [08:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750612 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] Too much is exposed to VoiceOver that is actually not currently visible/interactable
  187. # [08:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hey, anything I need to review soon? or will saturday be fne?
  188. # [08:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: i'd be nice if you review Mark's patches
  189. # [08:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: like bug 748724
  190. # [08:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
  191. # [08:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, that sounds long :/
  192. # [08:38] <@surkov> tbsaunde: well, it's big but it should be mostly ok :)
  193. # [08:38] <@surkov> it's not the first iteration
  194. # [08:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, I'll try and look
  195. # [08:38] <@surkov> thx!
  196. # [08:40] <@tbsaunde> np, just have a bunch of school work to do since its the last week before finals
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  218. # [10:34] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751493 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  219. # [10:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751493 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, move out the nsHTMLComboboxListAccessible logic from nsHTMLSelectListAccessible::NativeRole
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  221. # [10:44] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751496 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  222. # [10:44] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620620 on bug 751496.
  223. # [10:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751496 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, get rid nsAccessible::GetBoundaryFrame
  224. # [10:44] <icaaq> MarcoZ: do you have a minute to test a thing? it's the new mozilla social share thing i've been playing with to make it more accessible. http://icaaq.com/sandbox/mozilla/SocialShare/large.html
  225. # [10:45] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751497 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  226. # [10:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751497 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, replace nsHTMLSelectOptionAccessible::GetSelectState by nice inline
  227. # [10:55] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@714E29CB.13DB46CE.3B93FF6D.IP) (Ping timeout)
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  229. # [10:56] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Sure thing, let me take a look!
  230. # [10:58] <icaaq> MarcoZ: I've also made a version where I use aria-pressed on the button here http://icaaq.com/sandbox/mozilla/SocialShare2/large.html
  231. # [11:00] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@714E29CB.13DB46CE.3B93FF6D.IP) (Ping timeout)
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  233. # [11:02] <icaaq> Internet went down, now i'm back :)
  234. # [11:03] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: I definitely like the first version better. It is more appropriate to announce the expansion and collapsing of this toggle button to share stuff.
  235. # [11:04] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: The three iframes inside the list are OK. However, following the list of 3 items, there are another 3 iframes (or similar) that I don#t know what to make of. The first two contain hugely long facebook URLs, the third contains some warning about an URL not being from the original referrer or something.
  236. # [11:05] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: These two iframes with links and the one with the warning also stay when one collapses the button/share features again.
  237. # [11:05] <@MarcoZ> These are in both versions.
  238. # [11:05] <@MarcoZ> In terms of button, as I said, the first one is perfect.
  239. # [11:10] <icaaq> MarcoZ: Great thanks. regarding the iframes after the list, it's the fb-root element that is stuffed with stuff from facebook. maybe I can add something to that element to make invisible even for AT-users
  240. # [11:13] <@MarcoZ> If you have a common element these get added to: "display: none;" should do the trick.
  241. # [11:18] <icaaq> yes, but I think the some elements inside the iframes becomes visible when the user click the like-button...
  242. # [11:21] <icaaq> I'll look it up, thanks again :)
  243. # [11:23] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@C1A6A50A.88321457.33A1AC3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  244. # [11:25] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Interesting, I've never seen this gibberish in the vicinity of other "lik4" buttons etc., for example on my own blog http://www.marcozehe.de.
  245. # [11:33] <icaaq> MarcoZ: Yes, thats because your not using the like button, you are using a share link :)
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  249. # [12:27] <icaaq> MarcoZ: From the facebook SDK: The fb-root element must not be hidden using display: none or visibility: hidden, or some parts of the SDK will not work properly in IE.
  250. # [12:28] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com denied in-testsuite on bug 750853.
  251. # [12:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750853 nor, --, mozilla15, hub, NEW, mozilla/a11y/Role.h:817: error: comma at end of enumerator list
  252. # [12:33] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Ugh how ugly! :( Hm, hope this will always be appended to the very end of a page so users can learn to ignore that mumbo-jumbo.
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  255. # [12:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  256. # [12:51] <icaaq> MarcoZ: I'm thinking of adding aria-hidden="true" to hide it for screenreaders that supports it
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  259. # [13:05] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 620298 on bug 748724.
  260. # [13:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
  261. # [13:09] * Joins: arky (arky@607228D1.C3A4CD11.F89CB192.IP)
  262. # [13:11] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 620468 on bug 750283.
  263. # [13:11] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@gmail.com for attachment 620468 on bug 750283.
  264. # [13:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750283 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, notify observers of a11y init / shutdown in nsAccessibilityService
  265. # [13:13] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@714E29CB.13DB46CE.3B93FF6D.IP) (Ping timeout)
  266. # [13:17] <@surkov> MarcoZ: you're finally on linkedin :)
  267. # [13:17] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(trev.saunders@gma il.com) for attachment 620564 on bug 750287.
  268. # [13:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750287 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't cache is form fill enabled pref
  269. # [13:19] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@714E29CB.13DB46CE.3B93FF6D.IP)
  270. # [13:26] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Is worthwhile trying! Firefox should do it right for screen readers that read our accessibility tree exclusively.
  271. # [13:37] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@moz-42F8F495.info.uaic.ro)
  272. # [13:50] <icaaq> MarcoZ: added aria hidden to http://icaaq.com/sandbox/mozilla/SocialShare/large.html
  273. # [13:59] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 620468 on bug 750283.
  274. # [13:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750283 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, notify observers of a11y init / shutdown in nsAccessibilityService
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  277. # [14:26] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Do you remember off-hand whether we support aria-hidden already? I thought we did, but the example icaaq gave above does not work for me, I still see the content I don't want to see.
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  279. # [14:48] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
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  281. # [14:56] <@davidb> heyo
  282. # [14:57] <tbsaunde> mjorning
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  286. # [15:27] <@davidb> Valve seems pretty cool
  287. # [15:28] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  288. # [15:32] <tbsaunde> davidb: vale?
  289. # [15:32] <@davidb> http://blog.mozilla.org/dmandelin/2012/05/02/the-moco-handbook-for-new-employees/
  290. # [15:32] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ^
  291. # [15:32] <tbsaunde> ah
  292. # [15:33] <@davidb> tbsaunde: would be great to get your feedback on https://intranet.mozilla.org/Accessibility/NewHire
  293. # [15:33] <@davidb> no rush
  294. # [15:35] <tbsaunde> ok, I might look since my other work is boring
  295. # [15:40] <tbsaunde> davidb: a lot of that looks like its copy pasta from something more generic?
  296. # [15:40] <tbsaunde> also, are we planning on getting more people soon?
  297. # [15:40] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it isn't copy and paste. this is the start of an actual generic cheat sheet for new platform hires.
  298. # [15:41] <@davidb> ignore that it is sitting under Accessibility for now
  299. # [15:41] <@davidb> so yes more people but not necessarily a11y :)
  300. # [15:41] <tbsaunde> ah
  301. # [15:42] <tbsaunde> seems sort of fine, though I thought there was one of those already? atleast I seem to remember something somewhere on the intranet
  302. # [15:42] <@davidb> there is an even more generic checklist for all employees
  303. # [15:42] <@davidb> was there anything for interns?
  304. # [15:44] <tbsaunde> I don't think there was anything specifically for interns
  305. # [15:44] <@davidb> OK
  306. # [15:44] <tbsaunde> though maybe the huge interns page had something? *shrug*
  307. # [15:44] <@davidb> basically i want this to be info that people usually learn over the first few months but things can fall through the cracks
  308. # [15:45] <@davidb> i/we
  309. # [15:45] <tbsaunde> fair
  310. # [15:45] <@davidb> is anything missing, or is anything too obvious?
  311. # [15:46] <tbsaunde> not that I noticed immediately
  312. # [15:46] <@davidb> good good
  313. # [15:46] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  314. # [15:48] <@davidb> tbsaunde: if you want to hurt your brain https://github.com/graydon/rust/blob/master/src/rt/rust_shape.h#L847
  315. # [15:49] <@surkov> MarcoZ: we map it object attribute
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  318. # [16:00] <tbsaunde> davidb: I'm confused what's interesting about that class in particular?
  319. # [16:00] * Joins: Bryen (Bryen@AD869AA5.7763354F.AD565587.IP)
  320. # [16:01] <@davidb> tbsaunde: 3 nested instances of the a recurring template pattern
  321. # [16:01] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from trev.saunders@gma il.com for attachment 620687 on bug 750287.
  322. # [16:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750287 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't cache is form fill enabled pref
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  329. # [16:12] <tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, I guess that is a little odd
  330. # [16:13] <@davidb> i'd say it is a recipe for migraines later
  331. # [16:13] * Joins: brambles (brambles@4CBAB088.F3076E90.1822ACA6.IP)
  332. # [16:13] <tbsaunde> but I didn't really understand what it was trying to do so it didn't really bug me that much
  333. # [16:13] <@davidb> yeah, my eyes glaze over fast on that bit of code
  334. # [16:13] <@davidb> meh
  335. # [16:14] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  336. # [16:14] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  337. # [16:16] <tbsaunde> maybe its glazing over, but also I have no igh level idea wat this stuff is for
  338. # [16:17] <tbsaunde> and why htey need things class ptr, which as fair as I can tell be exactly the same as t*
  339. # [16:17] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP) (Input/output error)
  340. # [16:17] <tbsaunde> accept it auto converts to uintptr which seems like an anti feature
  341. # [16:19] * @davidb cheers Mark_Capella on
  342. # [16:19] <@davidb> *\o/*
  343. # [16:19] <tbsaunde> also, arg there style anoys me
  344. # [16:20] <@davidb> style wars!
  345. # [16:20] <tbsaunde> heh, yup
  346. # [16:20] <@davidb> you know what i think is a fundamental problem… writing code is creative… and everyone has their own style… can you imagine painters being told how to paint?
  347. # [16:21] <@davidb> everything must be impressionist and use complementary colors!
  348. # [16:21] * tbsaunde notes he isn't really convinced unsafe languages are evil or fundimentally wrong
  349. # [16:23] <tbsaunde> especially when you require that proving safety doesn't involve solving the halting problem
  350. # [16:24] <@davidb> i think it comes down to practise
  351. # [16:24] <@davidb> pragmatics
  352. # [16:25] <tbsaunde> davidb: maybe to you, but not for the pl people around here I think
  353. # [16:25] <@davidb> i'm not sure i'm understanding
  354. # [16:27] <tbsaunde> I mean my impression of many people particularly the programing lanugages theory people is they believe unsafe languages are just inherantly evil
  355. # [16:33] <tbsaunde> anyway got to run
  356. # [16:33] * tbsaunde is now known as tbsaunde|afk
  357. # [16:41] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  358. # [16:42] <@hub> the problem is what safeguards are in place so that programming error are detected as early as possible.
  359. # [16:43] <@davidb> sometimes we forget humans are doing the programming
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  362. # [16:55] <@hub> computers don't make mistake
  363. # [16:55] <@hub> humans do
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  365. # [17:16] * ctalbert|afk is now known as ctalbert
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  367. # [17:20] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  373. # [17:45] <@MarcoZ> Hi all! Sorry, had a visitor (a web dev).
  374. # [17:48] * Joins: mike5w3c (MikeS@454A1A4F.FF5089F.1771B9DE.IP)
  375. # [18:01] <tbsaunde|afk> hub: sure, that's a issue
  376. # [18:01] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
  377. # [18:01] <tbsaunde> but outlawing a bunch of correct programs because you can't prove them correct is also bad
  378. # [18:02] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@714E29CB.13DB46CE.3B93FF6D.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  379. # [18:03] <tbsaunde> also if I say spend an extra n hours making code type check but only save n/2 hours of debugging the generated code what did I win?
  380. # [18:09] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde, who are you talking to?
  381. # [18:13] <tbsaunde> MarcoZ: was responding to hub from a while ago
  382. # [18:13] <@hub> MarcoZ: it is a discussion that happened earlier :-) and I jumped in
  383. # [18:19] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-6F22CAC7.e7jvsoe-gw.cust.sover.net)
  384. # [18:22] <@MarcoZ> hub: tbsaunde: OK! :)
  385. # [18:27] <@hub> MarcoZ: if linkedin a11y is as good as their https implementation of the service, it is gonna be bad.
  386. # [18:31] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  387. # [18:32] <@MarcoZ> hub: The web site is actually *quite* good!
  388. # [18:33] <@MarcoZ> hub: Lots of good HTML semantics. Their iPad app, 95% HTML5, seems to not speak for itself in that same good regard.
  389. # [18:46] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net) (Ping timeout)
  390. # [18:49] <@davidb> i wonder how linked in fares wrt collusion
  391. # [18:52] * Quits: sam (sam@756375E.1AF5F21E.247B233F.IP) (Quit: Leaving)
  392. # [19:01] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@AC55BE55.63BE4D17.4873E54D.IP)
  393. # [19:07] <@MarcoZ> davidb: collusion?
  394. # [19:08] <@davidb> http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_kovacs_tracking_the_trackers.html
  395. # [19:13] * Joins: hub (hub@D459F0F4.D9251953.6E712CE2.IP)
  396. # [19:13] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  397. # [19:15] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  398. # [19:29] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I don't suppose Collusion is made in a way that I could read out this data.
  399. # [19:30] <@davidb> MarcoZ: it is a visualization
  400. # [19:30] <@davidb> a network of nodes
  401. # [19:30] <@davidb> nodes = sites
  402. # [19:30] * @MarcoZ nods.
  403. # [19:30] <@davidb> connections = connections
  404. # [19:31] <@davidb> hub: webm needs to be easier
  405. # [19:32] * @davidb goes to the water cooler
  406. # [19:32] <@hub> davidb: it is not like TED has no resources. they HIRE professional photographers to cover their events
  407. # [19:33] * @eeejay installs collusion
  408. # [19:33] <@eeejay> i have ghostery, so hopefully that would make the red dots appear less
  409. # [19:36] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751623 filed by scoobidiver@netcourrier.com.
  410. # [19:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
  411. # [19:38] <@davidb> hub: someone needs to fund tooling
  412. # [19:38] <@davidb> if that's ted, fine :)
  413. # [19:38] <@eeejay> wow, ghostery really doesn't let stuff get past it
  414. # [19:42] <@hub> MarcoZ: btw my patch do make things better, just that effectively it does not update. I thought about it after requesting the review.
  415. # [19:42] <@hub> MarcoZ: I'll fix it
  416. # [19:51] <@MarcoZ> Hub: Looking forward to it and will try it when it shows up, or tomorrow morning. ;)
  417. # [19:52] <@MarcoZ> Bug 751623 looks like a simple null check.
  418. # [19:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
  419. # [19:52] <@MarcoZ> Which NS_ENSURE_ thing is to be used for an nsCOMPTR?
  420. # [19:53] <khuey> to ensure what?
  421. # [19:59] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
  422. # [20:01] <@davidb> i prefer explicit null checks to the macros
  423. # [20:01] <@MarcoZ> khuey: That an Do_QueryInterface succeeded and the nsComPtr variable is not null.
  424. # [20:02] <khuey> MarcoZ: NS_ENSURE_TRUE(comptr, retval)
  425. # [20:03] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620775 on bug 751623.
  426. # [20:03] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 751623 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  427. # [20:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
  428. # [20:03] <@MarcoZ> khuey: davidb: Like this.
  429. # [20:04] <@davidb> ah i see
  430. # [20:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah I suspect when Orca or whoever asks the root accessible for the name, and the document isn't there yet, this crash could happen.
  431. # [20:09] * @MarcoZ suspects davidb and khuey fell unconscious. ;)
  432. # [20:09] <@davidb> MarcoZ: looks fine… but if I was reviewing I'd take a closer look
  433. # [20:11] * nhirata is now known as nhirata-wfh
  434. # [20:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah I asked tbsaunde since he reviewed the original bug, too.
  435. # [20:12] <@davidb> sure
  436. # [20:12] <@MarcoZ> And if someone decides they have a better solution, that's fine with me. :)
  437. # [20:13] <@MarcoZ> OK, going off for the evening. See you tomorrow!
  438. # [20:13] <@davidb> next time please fix the bug faster LOL
  439. # [20:13] <@davidb> ok ciao!
  440. # [20:13] <@MarcoZ> :D
  441. # [20:13] * Quits: @MarcoZ (Daily@moz-91F6CCD7.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Me and C++, two worlds collide....most of the time. ;))
  442. # [20:33] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@AC55BE55.63BE4D17.4873E54D.IP) (Ping timeout)
  443. # [20:55] <@hub> mochitest still not green here
  444. # [20:56] <@hub> locally
  445. # [20:56] <@hub> on Mac
  446. # [21:09] <Mark_Capella> hmm ... bug fell out of GetName()?
  447. # [21:11] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751665 filed by hub@mozilla.com.
  448. # [21:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751665 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/events/test_focus_menu.xul
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  456. # [21:59] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 620775 on bug 751623.
  457. # [21:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
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  463. # [22:56] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
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  465. # [23:06] <@hub> what is the event fired when the native state changes? or when the INVISIBLE state changes to be accurate
  466. # [23:06] <@hub> I mean state, not native state
  467. # [23:07] <@eeejay> hub, EVENT_STATE_CHANGED
  468. # [23:07] <@hub> ok, just making sure
  469. # [23:08] <@eeejay> hub, oh. there are hide events to
  470. # [23:08] <@eeejay> too
  471. # [23:08] <@hub> I saw these too
  472. # [23:08] <tbsaunde> hub: in C++ you want AccStateChangeEvent / AccMutatioEvent
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  477. # [23:57] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested feedback from trev.saunders@gma il.com for attachment 620860 on bug 750216.
  478. # [23:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750216 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't export headers that aren't used outside
  479. # [23:59] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  480. # Session Close: Fri May 04 00:00:00 2012

The end :)