/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-05-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri May 04 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  9. # [01:18] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 751749 filed by david+bugs@madore.org.
  10. # [01:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751749 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, cannot configure keyboard shortcuts to use Meta modifier instead of Alt
  11. # [01:29] * Quits: Bryen (Bryen@AD869AA5.7763354F.AD565587.IP) (Ping timeout)
  12. # [01:53] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751769 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  13. # [01:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751769 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] attaching AccessFu to more than one window raises havoc
  14. # [01:55] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 620895 on bug 751769.
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  18. # [02:06] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 620900 on bug 750528.
  19. # [02:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750528 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Add preference for enabling/disabling AccessFu
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  25. # [02:17] <@hub> seems like EVENT_STATE_CHANGED is never sent for the "INVISIBLE" state change
  26. # [02:17] <@hub> or the state never changes
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  28. # Session Close: Fri May 04 03:02:18 2012
  29. #
  30. # Session Start: Fri May 04 03:02:18 2012
  31. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  35. # [03:07] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone" | release schedule: http://mzl.la/LNc0W | accessibility list https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/accessibility'
  36. # [03:07] * Set by hub on Tue Apr 17 00:34:03
  37. # [03:12] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 620895 on bug 751769.
  38. # [03:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751769 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] attaching AccessFu to more than one window raises havoc
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  45. # [04:04] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 620900 on bug 750528.
  46. # [04:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750528 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Add preference for enabling/disabling AccessFu
  47. # [04:06] * @davidb checks laundry
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  50. # [04:19] <@davidb> eeejay: I'm unsure about isEnabled :)
  51. # [04:19] <@eeejay> davidb, too generic?
  52. # [04:19] <@davidb> don't you then later call this.enable?
  53. # [04:19] <@davidb> it is more like isToBeEnabled right?
  54. # [04:19] <@eeejay> yeah :P
  55. # [04:19] <@davidb> hee hee
  56. # [04:20] <@eeejay> ok, amINeeded..
  57. # [04:20] <@davidb> it was funny...
  58. # [04:20] <@eeejay> yeah, too many "enable" stages here
  59. # [04:20] <@davidb> my brain hurt for a while because mode and pref merged together like a monster
  60. # [04:20] <@eeejay> sry
  61. # [04:20] <@davidb> in my poor old mind :)
  62. # [04:21] <@eeejay> heh
  63. # [04:21] <@davidb> actually i need to stop talking about how young i am
  64. # [04:21] <@eeejay> just tested in ics
  65. # [04:21] <@eeejay> it works-ish
  66. # [04:21] <@davidb> ish?
  67. # [04:21] <@eeejay> need to record my thoughts more clearly tomorrow
  68. # [04:22] <@eeejay> i think the main diff is in the "clicked" event
  69. # [04:22] <@eeejay> not the worst casualty
  70. # [04:25] <@davidb> eeejay: what is that hebrew word for matchmaker?
  71. # [04:25] <@eeejay> shadchan
  72. # [04:25] <@davidb> Shadchan?
  73. # [04:25] <@davidb> thanks
  74. # [04:25] <@eeejay> or shadchanit
  75. # [04:25] <@eeejay> for female
  76. # [04:25] <@davidb> ok
  77. # [04:26] <@eeejay> shiduch is yiddish/hebrew for a made match
  78. # [04:36] <@eeejay> i still sweat a bit every time i push to inbound
  79. # [04:39] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Target Milestone on bug 751769 from --- to mozilla15.
  80. # [04:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751769 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] attaching AccessFu to more than one window raises havoc
  81. # [04:40] <@davidb> heh
  82. # [04:40] <@davidb> well we all used to push to central
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  84. # [04:41] <Mark_Capella> :O
  85. # [04:42] <Mark_Capella> im still happy letting surkov push my stuff
  86. # [04:43] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751796 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  87. # [04:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751796 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] disable() does not work well
  88. # [04:44] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 620933 on bug 751796.
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  93. # [05:00] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 620933 on bug 751796.
  94. # [05:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751796 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] disable() does not shut down event listeners
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  100. # [05:47] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 751623 from ASSIGNED to NEW.
  101. # [05:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
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  112. # [08:34] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 748724 from --- to mozilla15.
  113. # [08:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, mozilla15, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
  114. # [08:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 620620 on bug 751496.
  115. # [08:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620975 on bug 751496.
  116. # [08:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 751496 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  117. # [08:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751496 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, get rid nsAccessible::GetBoundsFrame
  118. # [08:47] <drexler> surkov: about bug 445516, does the generated bullet point affect the offsets in anyway?
  119. # [08:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445516 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, ASSI, Support auto-generated=true text attribute on list bullets
  120. # [08:48] <@surkov> drexler: it should
  121. # [08:49] <tbsaunde> surkov: I don't believe our atk callbacks should ever be called on the atk object for a native root accessible
  122. # [08:49] <tbsaunde> since we get that atk object from gtk iirc
  123. # [08:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I didn't read whole stack, it appears you're righy
  124. # [08:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we are just in the middle of shutdown
  125. # [08:51] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we null out mDocument and then remove the document from parent
  126. # [08:51] <tbsaunde> oh, then atk fires children-changed
  127. # [08:51] <tbsaunde> ?
  128. # [08:52] <tbsaunde> and we're called from that handler or something
  129. # [08:52] <tbsaunde> I didn't read the whole stack either fwiw
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  131. # [09:00] <@surkov> yep
  132. # [09:01] <tbsaunde> surkov: presumably things other than GetName could get called too right?
  133. # [09:02] <@surkov> absolutely
  134. # [09:02] <tbsaunde> so implementing Name() doesn't seem like a great idea...
  135. # [09:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I wonder if we should trigger children-changed event when we mutate the tre
  136. # [09:04] <@surkov> tree
  137. # [09:04] <@surkov> we could map our show/hide events into that signal if they are ok to get a signal on root of changed subtree
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  139. # [09:05] <tbsaunde> isn't that what we already do?
  140. # [09:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: per stack we fire that signal when we mutate the tree
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  145. # [09:34] <tbsaunde> surkov: oh, I forgot we do special stuffs for Application accessible
  146. # [09:34] <tbsaunde> I have no idea why or if we need to
  147. # [09:35] <tbsaunde> and I'm to tired and busy to try and think about it
  148. # [09:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: can you ask on atk mail list?
  149. # [09:40] <tbsaunde> surkov: maybe saturday my time, but tbh I don't have my thoughts together as to what to ask right now
  150. # [09:40] <@surkov> ok
  151. # [09:41] <tbsaunde> off hand it seems like those events should probably be dups since we fire for both mutation event when root accessible is added, and during tree mutation
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  153. # [10:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: not exactly, in case of document we fire reorder event on container only
  154. # [10:10] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 620775 on bug 751623.
  155. # [10:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
  156. # [10:17] <tbsaunde> surkov: oh, so root accessible is never subject of show / hide?
  157. # [10:18] <tbsaunde> surkov: then how would your idea work?
  158. # [10:18] <@surkov> in this case it probably won't :)
  159. # [10:18] <tbsaunde> of course what we have is sort of broken for documents that aren't root accessibles, but ...
  160. # [10:18] <@surkov> if we don't introduce them :)
  161. # [10:20] <tbsaunde> surkov: true
  162. # [10:20] <tbsaunde> do you want to introduce them?
  163. # [10:20] <tbsaunde> my tired mind thinks its sort of reasonalbe and then we can get rid of that funny logic
  164. # [10:20] <@surkov> we could do that if it doesn't break AT :)
  165. # [10:21] <tbsaunde> I'd think it probably shouldn't since they just get notified a little later right?
  166. # [10:24] <@surkov> they will receive show/hide events for document and they didn't do that previously. So if they have some logic for show/hide events that could do some bad things when target is a document then we're in trouble
  167. # [10:25] <@surkov> I'm pretty sure they process documents differently than tree mutation
  168. # [10:25] <@surkov> so if tree mutation logic starts to process documents then result is undefined I guess
  169. # [10:29] <tbsaunde> kkI guss
  170. # [10:30] <tbsaunde> on the other hand adding a document is just sort of tree mutation, so firing mutation event feels more correct to me
  171. # [10:35] <tbsaunde> surkov: ^
  172. # [10:35] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751828 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  173. # [10:36] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 620985 on bug 751828.
  174. # [10:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that's right
  175. # [10:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751828 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, densify nsHTMLListAccessible
  176. # [10:36] <@surkov> but the concern if we do break them or not
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  181. # [11:35] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 750193 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  182. # [11:35] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 750193 to FIXED.
  183. # [11:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750193 nor, --, mozilla15, maxli, RESO FIXED, get rid useless DEBUG_A11Y code
  184. # [11:35] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 750196 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  185. # [11:35] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 750196 to FIXED.
  186. # [11:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750196 nor, --, mozilla15, maxli, RESO FIXED, remove ROLE_SYSTEM_ definitions
  187. # [11:35] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 750853 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  188. # [11:35] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 750853 to FIXED.
  189. # [11:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750853 nor, --, mozilla15, hub, RESO FIXED, mozilla/a11y/Role.h:817: error: comma at end of enumerator list
  190. # [11:35] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 748601 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  191. # [11:35] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 748601 to FIXED.
  192. # [11:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748601 nor, --, mozilla15, maxli, RESO FIXED, nsMaiInterfaceText.cpp should check internal role not atk role
  193. # [11:37] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 747272 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  194. # [11:38] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 747272 to FIXED.
  195. # [11:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=747272 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Filter out whitespace text leaves in navigation
  196. # [11:38] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 749812 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  197. # [11:38] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 749812 to FIXED.
  198. # [11:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=749812 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Display text editing changes
  199. # [11:38] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 751428 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  200. # [11:38] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 751428 to FIXED.
  201. # [11:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751428 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Remove spaces and catch exceptions when localizing role names
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  203. # [11:53] <@MarcoZ> surkDo you have stuff to land on inbound soon, or should I just land bug 751623 myself?
  204. # [11:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
  205. # [11:53] <@MarcoZ> Oh, surkov isn't here. OK, I'll land it.
  206. # [12:11] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 751623 from --- to mozilla15.
  207. # [12:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, mozilla15, nobody, NEW, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
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  232. # [15:42] <@davidb> heyo
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  240. # [16:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Hi!
  241. # [16:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Did my reply w.r.t. the new pdf.js viewer make any sense? I wasn't sure, it was before coffee O'clock when I wrote this.
  242. # [16:12] <@davidb> i skimmed it so far
  243. # [16:13] <@MarcoZ> k
  244. # [16:14] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I should have reply-alled and cc'ed you originally
  245. # [16:14] <@davidb> want me to do that so the discussion can be direct?
  246. # [16:15] * @davidb does that
  247. # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> Yeah of course!
  248. # [16:16] <@davidb> MarcoZ: BTW thanks for looking at the issue - I'm glad you found the time.
  249. # [16:16] <@davidb> thanks
  250. # [16:16] <@MarcoZ> It's just that I don't remember *what* low vision user problem this technique actually has. it definitely has a negative impact on screen readers, too, since the buttons have no caption whatsoever, and the title isn't used.
  251. # [16:16] <@davidb> let me re-read
  252. # [16:17] <@MarcoZ> That's what I'm employed for, among other things, is it not? ;-) So np!
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  254. # [16:19] <@davidb> good point!
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  264. # [17:10] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I provided a reply for the pdf folks with workarounds
  265. # [17:13] <@MarcoZ> Saw it, thanks!
  266. # [17:14] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Anything else you need from me today? If not, I'd like to go off and prepare to watch my sister perform in a theater play in 2 hours.
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  268. # [17:22] <@MarcoZ> OK, am off, have a good weekend!
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  270. # [17:24] <@davidb> err wait a sec
  271. # [17:24] <@davidb> too late :)
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  278. # [18:23] <Bryen> hi clown
  279. # [18:24] <Bryen> clown, Just an FYI. I've tried your solution with the webdev plugin and your css. It does work in most cases, although annoying to have to reload the css every time.
  280. # [18:24] <clown> hey Bryen
  281. # [18:24] <Bryen> Some pages look weird though, particularly google plus. But seems that's more a design issue on their side than anything else.
  282. # [18:25] <clown> glad it does something. would be useful if FF could change its functionality here.
  283. # [18:25] <clown> yeah, if you start overriding some author styles but not others, things can start to look odd.
  284. # [18:25] <Bryen> yes. Every time I go to a new page, its like a flashlight in my eyes until I find the css reloader :-)
  285. # [18:26] <Bryen> clown, one thing though. Our first example was the opensuse page, and you had gotten its colors back, but I don't get the colors back, just the info in those boxes.
  286. # [18:26] <Bryen> I'm wondering why the difference but maybe its some setting on my part. I dunno.
  287. # [18:27] <clown> I think I was testing FF 11 on Fedora-16
  288. # [18:27] <clown> And, if I recall correctly, I also did a quick test on a Mac (with FF).
  289. # [18:28] <clown> and got the same results in both places.
  290. # [18:28] <Bryen> so you get the color in the three boxes "Get it, Discover it, create it" right?
  291. # [18:29] <Bryen> i only see the outline of the boxes. Not exactly a bad thing, just seems different from yours.
  292. # [18:29] <clown> Bryen: let me check again — what's the url again?
  293. # [18:30] <Bryen> clown, opensuse.org
  294. # [18:30] <clown> d'oh, that's obvious. hang on...
  295. # [18:31] <Bryen> :-)
  296. # [18:32] <clown> yes, I get that text. In fact, I remember I made a screen back then, and attached it to the bug. Here's a direct link: https://bug746205.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=615835
  297. # [18:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746205 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, CSS issues render color selection in FF useless
  298. # [18:32] * clown thanks firebot
  299. # [18:33] <Bryen> clown, oh ok so we do see the same thing. Whew , consistency!
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  301. # [18:35] <clown> right, I think the css overrides the author's colours — the css says "use black for the background colour".
  302. # [18:36] <Bryen> I surmise there's no easy way to differentiate between general overall background vs. specific item background
  303. # [18:39] <clown> the key word there is "easy". It's possible to do, but to find a consisten way across all web pages makes it impractical.
  304. # [18:40] <clown> it's better to have the authors make provisions for a high contrast or inverse look to their sites.
  305. # [18:40] <Bryen> clown, Perhaps we should get organized. Order the entire world to take down their websites and put it through a review process whereby it cannot be pbulished until you and I approve them.
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  307. # [18:41] <clown> oh, the power!
  308. # [18:41] <@davidb> you don't want that
  309. # [18:41] <@davidb> have you seen the internet?
  310. # [18:41] <Bryen> clown, trust me, most people won't do that. I encountered one man designing a photography site and asked him to be sure to make it accessible.
  311. # [18:41] <Bryen> He said "It's a photography site, there are no visually impaired people who would ever visit that."
  312. # [18:42] <clown> actually the law (can't remember what it's called in the US) should help here, as well as consumer complaints (assuming enough consumers complain).
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  314. # [18:43] <Bryen> the plethora of websites makes the consumer complaints seem neglible :-(
  315. # [18:43] <Bryen> Hmm I wonder if there's a complaint plugin.
  316. # [18:43] <clown> doe this photography site sell pictures? That could be purchased for gifts?
  317. # [18:44] <Bryen> Dunno. This was a conversation I had on wordpress IRC channel some time ago.
  318. # [18:44] * Mark_Capella|away is now known as Mark_Capella
  319. # [18:45] <clown> just brainstorming another approach: "you know, mr. photographer, with a little effort to accomodate low vision users, you could expand your sales".
  320. # [18:46] <Bryen> :-)
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  322. # [18:46] <clown> yes, davidb, I have seen the internet. or some of it at least. it's big. not the biggest thing there is, but big.
  323. # [18:46] * clown it must be friday.
  324. # [18:46] <@davidb> there are things you can't unsee
  325. # [18:49] * clown imagines that davidb has been scarred for life.
  326. # [18:52] <Bryen> :-)
  327. # [18:52] <Bryen> totally off-topic, anyone know of accessible IRC clients on Windows and Mac?
  328. # [18:54] <Mark_Capella> sounds like a movie trailer /low scary voice .... " some things, you can't unsee..."
  329. # [18:56] * Mark_Capella is now known as Mark_Capella|away
  330. # [18:57] <@davidb> heheh
  331. # [18:58] <Bryen> ?me unsees Mark_Capella|away now that he is away again.
  332. # [18:59] <Mark_Capella|away> cant make up my mind to go to bed
  333. # [18:59] <@davidb> Mark_Capella|away: fix all the bugs!
  334. # [18:59] <Bryen> or at least my bug!
  335. # [18:59] <Mark_Capella|away> nuke all the whales!
  336. # [18:59] <Mark_Capella|away> I did have a regression in JS that I had to fix yesterday
  337. # [18:59] <@davidb> yeah?
  338. # [19:00] <Mark_Capella|away> yah little tiny one ... but my first to hit nightly
  339. # [19:00] <Bryen> but that's not my bug. Get your priorities in order! :-)
  340. # [19:00] <Mark_Capella|away> :) havent tuned into yours yet
  341. # [19:01] <Mark_Capella|away> and right during PGO / linker stuff ... wot a pain
  342. # [19:03] <Mark_Capella|away> sighs ... another fantastic friday
  343. # [19:03] <Bryen> Friday is great! It means there's only three days left til Monday
  344. # [19:03] * Bryen is a sick bastard at times.
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  349. # [19:47] <drexler> anyone what r=me actually means?
  350. # [19:50] <@davidb> Bryen, clown can you give me a link to a page that mucks up images with HCM again?
  351. # [19:50] <@davidb> drexler: it means r+
  352. # [19:51] <@davidb> drexler: when we land fixes with have a comment like "Bug 1234 - fix the crap. r=drexler"
  353. # [19:51] <@davidb> so r=me means free to put r=davidb
  354. # [19:53] <@davidb> clown, Bryen or that bug #
  355. # [19:55] <@davidb> *crickets*
  356. # [19:55] <@davidb> oh found backscroll
  357. # [19:55] <@davidb> bug 746205
  358. # [19:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746205 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, CSS issues render color selection in FF useless
  359. # [20:04] <drexler> davidb: ok
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  362. # [20:09] <drexler> davidb: last question...so i don't have to re-request a review...just a carry over the r+ with the necessary changes?
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  366. # [20:16] <@davidb> drexler: bug #?
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  369. # [20:17] <drexler> davidb: oops it's not related to accessibility
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  371. # [20:18] <@davidb> drexler: doesn't matter i can look
  372. # [20:18] <drexler> bug 722599
  373. # [20:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722599 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, NEW, Make the change event fired by the content instead of the layout
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  375. # [20:19] <@hub> I'm in a Beastie Boys kind of mood
  376. # [20:20] <@hub> btw, upgrading to Lion
  377. # [20:20] <@davidb> Sabotage!
  378. # [20:21] <@hub> exactly
  379. # [20:25] <@davidb> drexler: oh sorry i forgot to look 1 min
  380. # [20:26] <@davidb> clown, Bryen note this is a neat way of doing images that is immune to windows HCM pain https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/blob/master/web/viewer.css#L383
  381. # [20:27] <drexler> davidb: sure
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  383. # [20:27] <@davidb> drexler: what mounir has done is said "I trust you to fix the nits I have without screwing up, and I don't need to see the next patch, so r+ and r=me, but post the next patch for someone to land with the fixes"
  384. # [20:27] <drexler> davidb: okay :)
  385. # [20:28] <clown> davidb: i'm back. *checking log*
  386. # [20:28] <@davidb> drexler: you can always ask for review again to be sure… but up to you.
  387. # [20:28] <@davidb> (and not necessarily from mounir)
  388. # [20:28] <drexler> ok
  389. # [20:28] <@davidb> clown: most of it is moot
  390. # [20:28] <@davidb> clown: maybe the last link is interesting
  391. # [20:28] * clown stops checking log
  392. # [20:29] <clown> where you say: "clown, Bryen note this is a neat way of doing images that is immune to windows HCM pain"
  393. # [20:29] <clown> ?
  394. # [20:29] <@davidb> yes
  395. # [20:29] <@davidb> in case you are interested in that nuance
  396. # [20:29] <clown> okay, I'll look, but bug 746205 is not about Windows HCM.
  397. # [20:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746205 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, CSS issues render color selection in FF useless
  398. # [20:30] <Bryen> Windows???
  399. # [20:30] <@davidb> clown: true
  400. # [20:31] <@davidb> the background images off problem might be fixed in both cases
  401. # [20:32] <clown> the question is: does this method of putting in images work with the way FF implement user colour choice.
  402. # [20:32] <clown> right, davidb
  403. # [20:32] <clown> then again, they might not be.
  404. # [20:32] * @davidb nods
  405. # [20:33] <clown> also, this raies other a11y issues, like how does one get alt text for a content image specified in a style sheet.
  406. # [20:33] <clown> "raises"
  407. # [20:33] <clown> the aria spec recommends against doing this.
  408. # [20:34] <clown> it may also viloate some wcag principle, dunno.
  409. # [20:34] <Bryen> one thing that frustrates me is the alt text is usually blocked if you have a large mouse pointer
  410. # [20:35] <clown> "blocked" — you "covered up" by the mouse pointer image?
  411. # [20:35] <Bryen> yes
  412. # [20:36] <Bryen> sorry I wasn't technical enough :-D
  413. # [20:36] <clown> lol
  414. # [20:36] <clown> how is alt text displayed for you, brian? is it like a tool tip?
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  416. # [20:36] <Bryen> yes
  417. # [20:36] <clown> "bryen"
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  420. # [20:37] <Bryen> and I forgive you
  421. # [20:37] * clown hangs head in shame.
  422. # [20:37] <clown> the tool tip should be above the mouse pointer, no? (can't remember the layering rules0.
  423. # [20:37] <Bryen> would be cool if I could tell FF how to position the tool tip
  424. # [20:37] * clown typing prowess diminishing fast.
  425. # [20:37] <Bryen> yes but I guess when it is a large cursor, that doesn't work
  426. # [20:38] <clown> just checked — mouse is above everything.
  427. # [20:38] <clown> I think that's an OS rule. Nothing any application can do anything about.
  428. # [20:38] <Bryen> lemme find an example and screenshot it... hang on...
  429. # [20:39] <Bryen> this is the moment where you don't find examples when you need to...
  430. # [20:39] <clown> :-)
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  432. # [20:44] <Bryen> clown, http://www.bryen.com/images/mouse-tooltip.png
  433. # [20:45] <clown> so, this is general problem with toolitp displays, not just alt text on images.
  434. # [20:46] <Bryen> true
  435. # [20:46] <Bryen> is it because of something davidb broke at some point in the past?
  436. # [20:47] <clown> top of my head: the display of the tooltip should take into account the size of the mouse pointer, and position the tool tip so as to have the lease overlap.
  437. # [20:47] <clown> yeah, let's blame davidb.
  438. # [20:47] <Bryen> yes, in some cases the tooltip text is not very long and becomes completely overlayed by the mouse pointer
  439. # [20:48] <Bryen> I have yet to know whose brithday it is on today's Google doodle :-)
  440. # [20:48] <@davidb> clown: blame canada
  441. # [20:48] <Bryen> We have to actually remember that Canada actually is there before we can blame Canada.
  442. # [20:49] <clown> shhhhhh!
  443. # [20:49] <@davidb> Bryen: watch out… we have inoperable submarines.
  444. # [20:49] <@davidb> Thanks Britain.
  445. # [20:49] <clown> I'm betting that the top left corner of the tool tip is positioned close to the mouse's hot spot.
  446. # [20:50] <clown> So, if the mouse pointer is big, … it covers the tool tip.
  447. # [20:51] <drexler> !seen tbsaunde
  448. # [20:51] <@firebot> tbsaunde was last seen 10 hours, 15 minutes and 50 seconds ago, saying 'surkov: ^' in #accessibility.
  449. # [20:51] <clown> Bryen, you must experience something similar with menus — when a menu pops up, the menu item text is covered by the mouse pointer
  450. # [20:52] <Bryen> clown, I don't think so. You can usually drag the mouse away once the menu is visible.
  451. # [20:52] <Bryen> unless you're referring to a specific type of menu display
  452. # [20:52] <clown> true, I was thinking about when it first pops open. how about a right click on a link?
  453. # [20:53] <Bryen> don't have problems with those
  454. # [20:53] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 750528 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  455. # [20:53] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 750528 to FIXED.
  456. # [20:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750528 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Add preference for enabling/disabling AccessFu
  457. # [20:53] <Bryen> clown, welll... technically not true...
  458. # [20:53] <Bryen> clown, while the mouse does overlap the menu, the menu has a sufficient margin to avoid this problem
  459. # [20:54] <Bryen> so maybe that's the answer... user-customized pre-margin of tooltip?
  460. # [20:54] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Status on bug 750528 from RESOLVED to REOPENED.
  461. # [20:54] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cleared the Resolution 'FIXED' from bug 750528.
  462. # [20:55] <clown> I imagine that with a menu, as you say, you can move the mouse out of the way up to a point, and the menu is still there. But, for tooltips, their event horizon is smaller so if you move the mouse out of the way, the tooltip disappeasrs.
  463. # [20:55] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Status on bug 750528 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  464. # [20:55] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org set the Resolution field on bug 750528 to FIXED.
  465. # [20:55] <Bryen> clown, correct
  466. # [20:56] <Bryen> I think eeejay did those bug changes just to make me confused trying to read clown ^^ :-)
  467. # [20:56] <clown> I think the answer is for the tool tip renederer to take into accound the size of the point image, and move the popup as appropriate. But, that means the renderer has access to the pointer size.
  468. # [20:57] <clown> and, I doubt the renderer can access the pointer size info.
  469. # [20:57] <Bryen> i doubt it too
  470. # [20:57] <Bryen> I think customization of tooltip display is best though cumbersome for a user to have to tweak so many things
  471. # [20:58] <Bryen> and by the way, as long as we're looking into this, though its not a current issue for me, is there a way to adjust font/size of a tooltip display?
  472. # [20:58] <@eeejay> lol http://mozillamemes.tumblr.com/post/22373409782/push-it-somewhere-else-patrick-saves-the-day
  473. # [20:58] <@eeejay> Bryen, sry!
  474. # [20:59] <@davidb> haha!
  475. # [20:59] <Bryen> :-)
  476. # [21:02] <@davidb> hi tbsaunde
  477. # [21:03] <@davidb> eeejay: gonna land bug 749719?
  478. # [21:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=749719 nor, --, Firefox 15, eitan, NEW, Activate accessibility mode when device a11y is enabled
  479. # [21:03] <@eeejay> davidb, i freaked out and decided to do one last try server run first
  480. # [21:04] <@eeejay> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=b060de259272
  481. # [21:08] <tbsaunde> davidb: hi?
  482. # [21:09] <@davidb> tbsaunde: just saying hi, i think you were up late
  483. # [21:09] <@davidb> tbsaunde: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVZh4WcdC3s
  484. # [21:09] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 751985 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  485. # [21:09] <@davidb> oops
  486. # [21:10] <@davidb> that was for fitan
  487. # [21:10] <@davidb> sigh
  488. # [21:10] <@davidb> eitan
  489. # [21:10] <@davidb> eeejay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVZh4WcdC3s
  490. # [21:10] <@firebot> Bug 751985 was not found.
  491. # [21:11] <tbsaunde> davidb: one could put it that way
  492. # [21:11] <@eeejay> yup, that's my mood. it's chic
  493. # [21:11] <@hub> "not available"
  494. # [21:11] <tbsaunde> I've been up far too long and don't feel gret, but have work that needs done :/
  495. # [21:11] <@hub> that's the new "pay the h264 racket" message
  496. # [21:11] <@davidb> ah
  497. # [21:11] <@davidb> sad
  498. # [21:12] <@eeejay> hub, stick it to the man
  499. # [21:12] <@davidb> tbsaunde: for skool?
  500. # [21:12] <@hub> eeejay: I do
  501. # [21:12] <tbsaunde> its the last week of classes before finals so expected
  502. # [21:12] <@davidb> tbsaunde: grab a healthy smoothy and expense it
  503. # [21:12] * @eeejay puts on headphones and freaks out
  504. # [21:12] <tbsaunde> heh
  505. # [21:12] <Bryen> hey I use Firefox, can I expense a smoothie?
  506. # [21:13] <@davidb> Bryen: expense it to Suse
  507. # [21:13] <Bryen> They're cheapskates!
  508. # [21:14] <@davidb> You know…. it is a good thing I don't have an expense account.
  509. # [21:14] <Bryen> they have the nerve to assume all expenses should go to actual productivity.
  510. # [21:14] <@hub> it is productivity
  511. # [21:15] <@davidb> hub: exactly
  512. # [21:15] <@davidb> just stick caffeine in it
  513. # [21:16] <@hub> beer is also productivity
  514. # [21:17] <@davidb> mmmm beeer
  515. # [21:26] <@davidb> hub: any updates on the office?
  516. # [21:30] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  517. # [21:36] <@eeejay> i feel very unresponsible for all those talos regressions
  518. # [21:37] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  519. # [21:40] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-6F22CAC7.e7jvsoe-gw.cust.sover.net) (Connection reset by peer)
  520. # [21:46] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-6F22CAC7.e7jvsoe-gw.cust.sover.net)
  521. # [22:12] <@hub> davidb: Monday should be good
  522. # [22:12] <@davidb> hub: hmm?
  523. # [22:12] <@davidb> oh office
  524. # [22:12] <@davidb> cool
  525. # [22:12] <@hub> move to the new office
  526. # [22:12] <@hub> yeah
  527. # [22:16] <@davidb> i'm close to calling it… too bad you guys are 3 hours behind
  528. # [22:18] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-15EB76B9.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Ping timeout)
  529. # [22:18] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@moz-718D9655.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  530. # [22:19] <@hub> davidb: I'll be soon in the right timezone :-)
  531. # [22:19] <@davidb> :)
  532. # [22:23] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@5F6B43D3.1C233438.79933D60.IP)
  533. # [22:29] <@davidb> heheh thanks nelio
  534. # [22:29] <@davidb> (http://isitmfbt.com/)
  535. # [22:30] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-15EB76B9.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  536. # [22:35] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-654DF715.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  537. # [22:37] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 619982 on bug 745986.
  538. # [22:38] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 621158 on bug 745986.
  539. # [22:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745986 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Display page loading states
  540. # [22:42] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 748724 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  541. # [22:42] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com set the Resolution field on bug 748724 to FIXED.
  542. # [22:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=748724 nor, --, mozilla15, markcapella, RESO FIXED, de-ns-ify nsRootAccessible
  543. # [22:44] <icaaq> a work in progress attempt to make the tabzilla more accessible http://icaaq.com/sandbox/mozilla/mozilla-org.htm please try it out :)
  544. # [22:46] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 751623 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  545. # [22:46] <@firebot> ehsan@mozilla.com set the Resolution field on bug 751623 to FIXED.
  546. # [22:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, mozilla15, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
  547. # [22:52] <drexler> tbsaunde: free to talk about bug 445516
  548. # [22:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445516 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, ASSI, Support auto-generated=true text attribute on list bullets
  549. # [22:52] <drexler> tbsaunde: ?
  550. # [22:56] * Quits: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  551. # [23:13] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  552. # [23:14] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-6F22CAC7.e7jvsoe-gw.cust.sover.net) (Ping timeout)
  553. # [23:39] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Ping timeout)
  554. # [23:42] * Mark_Capella|away is now known as Mark_Capella
  555. # Session Close: Sat May 05 00:00:00 2012

The end :)