/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-05-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon May 07 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  4. # [01:19] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 621471 on bug 747227.
  5. # [01:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=747227 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, decomtaminate GetCellIndexAt() on accessible tables
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  12. # [03:51] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org granted feedback for attachment 621364 on bug 739190.
  13. # [03:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739190 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, change AppendTarget(nsIContent* aContent) to take nsDocAccessible* argument
  14. # [03:57] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 621364 on bug 739190.
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  25. # [07:35] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 620985 on bug 751828.
  26. # [07:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751828 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, densify nsHTMLListAccessible
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  33. # [08:12] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 621471 on bug 747227.
  34. # [08:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=747227 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, decomtaminate GetCellIndexAt() on accessible tables
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  36. # [08:43] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 620234 on bug 751079.
  37. # [08:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751079 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, get rid misuses of nsAccessible::GetBoundaryFrame
  38. # [08:50] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(trev.saunders@gma il.com) for attachment 621406 on bug 750295.
  39. # [08:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750295 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't cache gStringBundle in nsAccessNode
  40. # [08:53] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com granted feedback for attachment 621393 on bug 614585.
  41. # [08:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614585 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, mochitest test selection functions for nsIAccessibleText
  42. # [08:56] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com granted feedback for attachment 621343 on bug 750191.
  43. # [08:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750191 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, move IsTextInterfaceSupportCorrect under DEBUG ifdef
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  48. # [09:34] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 620975 on bug 751496.
  49. # [09:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751496 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, get rid nsAccessible::GetBoundsFrame
  50. # [10:14] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 621529 on bug 750191.
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  63. # [10:38] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 621393 on bug 614585.
  64. # [10:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614585 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, mochitest test selection functions for nsIAccessibleText
  65. # [10:40] <@askalski> morning everyone
  66. # [10:42] <tbsaunde> morning askalski
  67. # [10:51] <@MarcoZ> Morning askalski, tbsaunde, surkov!
  68. # [10:51] <@MarcoZ> Hi all!
  69. # [10:51] <@surkov> hi, MarcoZ
  70. # [10:51] <@MarcoZ> surkov: So, does the recent Android-related checkins mean that we now have a11y enabled in nightly builds whenever we turn on a11y on Android?
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  72. # [10:53] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it shouldn't but I don't track changes hard (I saw the bug to add a preference to enable a11y but iirc it's not turned on by default)
  73. # [10:57] <@MarcoZ> surkov: OK!
  74. # [10:57] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Yeah I lost track a bit myself, too.
  75. # [10:58] <@surkov> many patches is characteristic of progressive dev approach
  76. # [10:59] <tbsaunde> surkov: wasn't there another one that did look at if android a11y is on?
  77. # [11:00] * tbsaunde has started only lightly sking bugs whose summary starts with [AccessFo] *
  78. # [11:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: iirc this one was on trunk for some time (but I'm not sure about android part)
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  80. # [11:00] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: surkov: My basic question was: Do I still need to wait for special builds from eeejay to test progress in Android a11y, or can I now do it through nightly builds off our build machines. But seems I still need to ask for special builds.
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  82. # [11:07] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I don't know answer
  83. # [11:08] <tbsaunde> it seems like there is any way to test this...
  84. # [11:08] <tbsaunde> err, s/any/ an easy/
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  86. # [11:16] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 620687 on bug 750287.
  87. # [11:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750287 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't cache is form fill enabled pref
  88. # [11:24] * surkov sets mode: +o tbsaunde
  89. # [11:55] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 621158 on bug 745986.
  90. # [11:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745986 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Display page loading states
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  93. # [12:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 621529 on bug 750191.
  94. # [12:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750191 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, move IsTextInterfaceSupportCorrect under DEBUG ifdef
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  103. # [13:26] <Mark_Capella> surkov: ill make the try push part of routine now ...
  104. # [13:27] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: thank you!
  105. # [13:27] <Mark_Capella> were the build errors linux related? I build everything locally before posting it
  106. # [13:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 621393 on bug 614585.
  107. # [13:29] <@surkov> Mark_Capella: it doesn't look so, are you doing release builds?
  108. # [13:30] <Mark_Capella> Im building against most recent nightlies
  109. # [13:37] <icaaq> I've tried to make the tab (tabzilla) on most of the mozilla sites a litte bit more accessible, feedback would be more than welcome http://icaaq.com/sandbox/mozilla/tabzilla.htm :)
  110. # [13:42] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 621364 on bug 739190.
  111. # [13:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739190 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, change AppendTarget(nsIContent* aContent) to take nsDocAccessible* argument
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  114. # [13:49] <Mark_Capella> sorry ... the use of inline still confuses me ... i thought ultimately the compiler decides anyhow
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  118. # [14:08] <Mark_Capella> surkov: maybe ive been missing something ... /msaa dir is for win builds, /mac is for apple, then
  119. # [14:08] <Mark_Capella> /atk is linux? and /other is?
  120. # [14:09] <Mark_Capella> oh - he dropped off
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  123. # [14:25] <@MarcoZ> Hi icaaq! I like the feedback I get from the button that opens and closes the link list at the top.
  124. # [14:26] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: There are some to me unnamed links to "collusion" and others. Not sure how you did them, but they don't seem to contain either text or graphics as hints to what they contain.
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  126. # [14:28] <icaaq> MarcoZ: yes, thats the thing I've been looking at, the rest of the page is the same as www.mozilla.org
  127. # [14:30] <icaaq> MarcoZ: the thing is that on the original page visioned keyboard users need to tab through like 15 links before they reach the mozilla tab link and there they will see the focusring
  128. # [14:31] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: I'm totally blind and thus cannot comment on the visual aspects of it.
  129. # [14:32] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: I just found that, when clicking the "Mozillax" button again to close, or pressing Escape inside that list, the list is hidden in a manner that doesn't make it go away for screen readers. Do you display: none; it again or do you "hide" it in some other form?
  130. # [14:34] <icaaq> hmm, it should get display:none; if it's closed
  131. # [14:36] <@MarcoZ> It doesn't, and even when the button claims it's closed, they are keyboard focusable.
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  133. # [14:37] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: I just reloaded, and now they never appear hidden for me. So the 7 items at the top like "About" are always there.
  134. # [14:39] <icaaq> MarcoZ: Ah, thats the main navigation. Mission, about, projects and get involved.
  135. # [14:39] <icaaq> MarcoZ: first there is the mozilla tab then the navigation landmark
  136. # [14:42] <icaaq> MarcoZ: are you using NVDA?
  137. # [14:43] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: atk is desktop linux, other is things that aren't any of desktop linux win32 or mac so android b2g etc
  138. # [14:45] <Mark_Capella> tbsaunde: cool! thanks! that clears up a few things ive been wondering about
  139. # [14:45] <@tbsaunde> np
  140. # [14:45] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Yes I do.
  141. # [14:45] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: And the list below "get involved" is the one with the five or so unnamed links.
  142. # [14:53] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 752464 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  143. # [14:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752464 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in nsXULMenuitemAccessible::AccessKey
  144. # [14:58] <icaaq> MarcoZ: hmm, in NVDA it works fine to tab through the link section, but if I use down arrow key it jumps down to main navigation. works better in voice over
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  147. # [15:03] <@davidb> welcome back askalski!
  148. # [15:03] <@davidb> hi all!
  149. # [15:03] <@davidb> askalski: how was northern spain?
  150. # [15:03] <@askalski> davidb, so cool
  151. # [15:03] <@davidb> cool as in good or as in temperature?
  152. # [15:04] <@askalski> davidb, really. it's both ethnically and climate TOTALLY different to central and southern one. So amazing.
  153. # [15:04] <@davidb> nice
  154. # [15:04] <@davidb> how is it culturally different than the south?
  155. # [15:05] <icaaq> MarcoZ: I also use aria-flowto but NVDA/firefox does not support that yet does it?
  156. # [15:05] <@askalski> davidb, it's a different country. they have their own lanugage that is not a derivative of french nor german in any way (and noone knows where it's from), it's strongly industrialized, looks richer than both germany and france
  157. # [15:05] <@davidb> their own language?
  158. # [15:05] <@askalski> davidb, no wonder they want to re-gain their independence
  159. # [15:05] <@askalski> yes!
  160. # [15:05] <@davidb> i had no idea
  161. # [15:06] <@askalski> and it's recognized as such, cash machines in spain recognizes two different spanish languages :D
  162. # [15:06] <@askalski> davidb, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_language
  163. # [15:06] <@davidb> MarcoZ: yuri showed me a build of the pdfjs ui on Friday that worked with NVDA and window HCM (i tested against trunk)
  164. # [15:07] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Yes, NVDA reads those links all on one line.
  165. # [15:07] <@davidb> askalski: i'll check that out later thanks
  166. # [15:07] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: No, AFAIK, aria-flowto is not supported by anyone.
  167. # [15:08] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Interesting! The link he sent me definitely did not work yet.
  168. # [15:08] <@MarcoZ> Or rather, the content.
  169. # [15:08] <@davidb> MarcoZ: we expose the flow to relation but i guess NVDA doesn't care
  170. # [15:08] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Remember that there may still be a difference in tabbing versus navigating with the arrow keys and virtual cursor.
  171. # [15:09] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ah i was just tabbing
  172. # [15:09] * @askalski goes for a lunch
  173. # [15:09] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Oh right!
  174. # [15:09] <@davidb> askalski: bon appetite
  175. # [15:09] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yes, tabbing picks up the accessible name we make up from the title, but because the text info is blank, virtual cursor and braille display don't show any info.
  176. # [15:12] <@davidb> MarcoZ: would role=application help?
  177. # [15:12] <@davidb> I mean, I'm wondering if virtual cursor is the write way to explore UI?
  178. # [15:13] * @davidb goes to make coffee
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  180. # [15:16] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Nope, for this kind of UI, role="application" is definitely over-sized.
  181. # [15:16] <@MarcoZ> It all would work if, for some reason, the spans with the text alternatives weren't hidden by the accessibility API/markup of the CSS.
  182. # [15:20] <@davidb> MarcoZ: yeah. OK FWIW I tested http://107.22.172.223:8877/ed40640c2d5b3e1/web/viewer.html
  183. # [15:22] <@MarcoZ> davidb: That's interesting, *that* version actually works for me, too, but the version Yuri sent in the e-mail didn't.
  184. # [15:22] <@davidb> that's the one I gave f+ to
  185. # [15:23] <@davidb> over IRC
  186. # [15:23] <@davidb> oh!
  187. # [15:23] <@davidb> MarcoZ: this all happened since the original email
  188. # [15:23] <@davidb> it happened Friday my afternoon
  189. # [15:24] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK! Yeah I'd give f+ to that one, too.
  190. # [15:25] <@davidb> cool wanna email him/them?
  191. # [15:25] <@MarcoZ> davidb: One thing remains: If you turn on the side bar, where you have the "Thumbnails" and "Document outline" buttons, you also have a bunch of links with Canvas elements inside. What are these? They still miss any text info.
  192. # [15:25] <@davidb> oh crap i didn't test those
  193. # [15:25] <@MarcoZ> Will do!
  194. # [15:28] <@MarcoZ> davidb: E-mail sent for the initial work.
  195. # [15:29] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK, so what are those links?
  196. # [15:29] <@davidb> read it
  197. # [15:29] * @davidb boots windows
  198. # [15:29] <@davidb> oh i guess i can dom inspect
  199. # [15:29] <@MarcoZ> Yup.
  200. # [15:30] <@davidb> MarcoZ: each one is an anchor with two nested divs and a canvas element leaf
  201. # [15:30] <@davidb> we could through some content in the canvas subtree :)
  202. # [15:30] <@davidb> throw
  203. # [15:31] <@davidb> but really i think we just need some ARIA here
  204. # [15:31] <@davidb> and each thumbnail is in one div container
  205. # [15:32] <@davidb> the container has id="thumbnailView" and the thumb "thumbnailContainer#" where # is 1 2 3… for each thumb
  206. # [15:32] <@MarcoZ> Oh those are previous/thumbnails of the first few pages?
  207. # [15:32] <@MarcoZ> s/previous/previews/
  208. # [15:32] <@davidb> previews yes
  209. # [15:33] <@davidb> each anchor is a 'page'
  210. # [15:33] * @MarcoZ nods.
  211. # [15:33] <@MarcoZ> OK those should be marked up a little better, then.
  212. # [15:33] <@davidb> yes
  213. # [15:34] <@davidb> MarcoZ: the sidebar has two modes/views
  214. # [15:34] <@davidb> thumbnails and document outline
  215. # [15:34] <@davidb> this example has no outline
  216. # [15:35] <@davidb> but AFAICT the "No Outline Available" is not accessible text
  217. # [15:35] <@davidb> probably drawn on a canvas
  218. # [15:35] <@davidb> i stand corrected
  219. # [15:35] <@davidb> it is a div
  220. # [15:35] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  221. # [15:35] <@davidb> for some reason there is no select highlight
  222. # [15:35] <@davidb> hi tbsaunde
  223. # [15:36] <@davidb> !seen surkov
  224. # [15:36] <@firebot> surkov was last seen 2 hours, 6 minutes and 40 seconds ago, saying 'Mark_Capella: it doesn't look so, are you doing release builds?' in #accessibility.
  225. # [15:37] * @MarcoZ tests out marketplace.mozilla.org in the meantime.
  226. # [15:41] <@davidb> MarcoZ: are you waiting for me to do something more?
  227. # [15:41] <@davidb> BTW is Firebug still accessible? I saw Victor's tweet.
  228. # [15:46] * Joins: surkov (surkov@C1A6A50A.88321457.33A1AC3C.IP)
  229. # [15:46] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  230. # [15:47] * Joins: hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net)
  231. # [15:47] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  232. # [15:50] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Must admit haven't needed to use Firebug in a while.
  233. # [15:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: No, I think we're done with that PDF viewer. I'll send a followup regarding the thumbnails.
  234. # [15:51] <@davidb> groovy
  235. # [15:53] <@hub> hi
  236. # [15:54] <@davidb> hi hub
  237. # [15:54] <@davidb> hi surkov
  238. # [15:55] <@surkov> hi, davidb
  239. # [15:55] <@davidb> surkov: wanna Skype?
  240. # [15:55] <@surkov> davidb: maybe tomorrow? I didn't wanted to stay long tonight?
  241. # [15:56] <@davidb> sure
  242. # [15:56] <@surkov> ok, cool
  243. # [15:56] * Joins: arky (arky@A28FA0A.8ED53E9C.FA662B63.IP)
  244. # [15:58] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 751079 from --- to mozilla15.
  245. # [15:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751079 nor, --, mozilla15, surkov.alexander, ASSI, get rid misuses of nsAccessible::GetBoundaryFrame
  246. # [15:58] * Quits: margle (margle@E3F0FA38.AA35ED30.A77EFE04.IP) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  247. # [15:58] <@davidb> I think the right fix for bug 78414 is killing flash
  248. # [15:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78414 maj, --, ---, joshmoz, NEW, Application shortcut keys (keyboard commands such as f11, ctrl+t, ctrl+r) fail to operate when plug-
  249. # [15:58] <@surkov> :)
  250. # [15:58] <@davidb> :)
  251. # [15:59] <@davidb> (and all plugins)
  252. # [15:59] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP)
  253. # [16:00] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP) (Input/output error)
  254. # [16:00] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 750283 from --- to mozilla15.
  255. # [16:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750283 nor, --, mozilla15, markcapella, ASSI, notify observers of a11y init / shutdown in nsAccessibilityService
  256. # [16:01] <@davidb> MarcoZ, surkov do we have a new bug or reopen bug 751623?
  257. # [16:01] <@davidb> let's not forget it
  258. # [16:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751623 cri, --, mozilla15, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, crash in nsRootAccessible::Name
  259. # [16:02] <@surkov> MarcoZ: davidb let's get a new bug
  260. # [16:02] <@davidb> surkov: cool wanna file it?
  261. # [16:02] <@surkov> anyway the crash was fixed
  262. # [16:02] * @davidb nods
  263. # [16:02] <@surkov> I think I'll do it (I should have an open tab for that :) )
  264. # [16:03] <@surkov> today I had too many bugs to comment
  265. # [16:03] <@surkov> actually I ddn't finished yet
  266. # [16:04] <@MarcoZ> Bug against Marketplace filed. Another K9o-related step!
  267. # [16:04] * @davidb heads to a phone room
  268. # [16:04] * Joins: margle (margle@E3F0FA38.AA35ED30.A77EFE04.IP)
  269. # [16:04] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  270. # [16:05] <@tbsaunde> davidb: hi
  271. # [16:09] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
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  279. # [16:54] * @davidb realizes yuri is actually 'yury'
  280. # [16:55] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  281. # [16:57] * @davidb updates nightly fennec
  282. # [16:59] <@davidb> off my current fennec is borken
  283. # [16:59] <@davidb> off/oof
  284. # [16:59] <@MarcoZ> Ouch
  285. # [17:03] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-4C8A107E.pool85-48-91.dynamic.orange.es) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  286. # [17:04] <@tbsaunde> davidb: board? mind trying to get a stack for bug 752464 in msvc for me?
  287. # [17:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752464 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in nsXULMenuitemAccessible::AccessKey
  288. # [17:04] <@davidb> i'm currently building and testing bug 492557
  289. # [17:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=492557 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, create a keyboard shortcut HUD?
  290. # [17:04] * @davidb looks
  291. # [17:05] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are there STR?
  292. # [17:05] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ^
  293. # [17:05] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not afaik, I meant from the crash dump
  294. # [17:05] <@davidb> ohh
  295. # [17:06] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what do you want that the crash report doesn't provide?
  296. # [17:07] <@davidb> register values?
  297. # [17:07] <@davidb> holy crap that user has a lot of addons
  298. # [17:08] <@tbsaunde> davidb: function arguments
  299. # [17:09] <@tbsaunde> also the HandleAccEvent() -> cc -> win32 lib seems suspicous
  300. # [17:10] <@davidb> yes it does.
  301. # [17:11] <@tbsaunde> it seems like what event type we were firing and the relationship between the accessibles may be interesting
  302. # [17:11] <@davidb> possibly
  303. # [17:11] <@tbsaunde> the one we fire the event on and then the one we're called on I mean
  304. # [17:12] <@davidb> i don't understand why we cc
  305. # [17:12] <@davidb> well i can guess but
  306. # [17:12] <@davidb> man
  307. # [17:12] <@davidb> ok letting my clobber build finish.
  308. # [17:16] <@tbsaunde> if you asked me to guess I'd say those stack frames are just bogus
  309. # [17:16] <@davidb> it can happen
  310. # [17:23] <@MarcoZ> davidb: tbsaunde: Yeah this person has had problems with even corrupted reports for the past few weeks, and seems to have a pretty wild profile all in all, too.
  311. # [17:23] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-6F22CAC7.e7jvsoe-gw.cust.sover.net)
  312. # [17:24] <@davidb> MarcoZ: can you ask them to run a clean profile?
  313. # [17:25] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 752510 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  314. # [17:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752510 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, correct fix for bug 751623
  315. # [17:38] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@C1A6A50A.88321457.33A1AC3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  316. # [17:46] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  317. # [17:47] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  318. # [17:50] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Hm, I am a bit hesitant. This person is quite low-tech in general, it took me a while to get him to send me crash report links. Am not sure I can talk him through launching Firefox with a command line parameter and such.
  319. # [17:50] <@davidb> fair enough
  320. # [17:51] <@davidb> MarcoZ: are you seeing that crash much in socorro?
  321. # [17:52] <@tbsaunde> isn't there a menu option for that?
  322. # [17:53] <@davidb> yes under Help i think
  323. # [17:56] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Socorro doesn't find this signature at all for some reason within the last 7 days. So it doesn't even show me the original crash report I filed the bug on.
  324. # [17:59] <Mark_Capella> davidb: what access level do I need to land my own patches? I have L1 only currently...
  325. # [17:59] <@davidb> good q - i always have to look it up
  326. # [18:00] <@davidb> http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/commit-access-policy/
  327. # [18:00] <Mark_Capella> It looks like L3 ... on thatlink -^
  328. # [18:00] <@davidb> yes L3
  329. # [18:00] <@davidb> Mark_Capella: file a bug and cc your most frequent reviewers
  330. # [18:01] <Mark_Capella> ok will do .... then do i land to mozilla-central? or to inbound ...?
  331. # [18:01] <@MarcoZ> Mark_Capella: Inbound.
  332. # [18:01] <@davidb> right
  333. # [18:01] <@davidb> Mark_Capella: and always read the topic in #developers for latest news about landing
  334. # [18:01] <Mark_Capella> thats what I thought but the link doesnt say inbound ... maybe old
  335. # [18:02] <@davidb> apart from that, joining mozilla dev planning and mozilla dev platform mailing lists is practically required.
  336. # [18:02] <Mark_Capella> davidb: yah saw "tree closed such and such"
  337. # [18:02] <@davidb> yep
  338. # [18:03] <Mark_Capella> ok then .... surkov alreaady offfered to be one reference so ill ask you for the other
  339. # [18:06] <@tbsaunde> Mark_Capella: mozilla-central is still correct since you can land there if you like, then you generally want ot have a good reason to watch the tree
  340. # [18:07] <Mark_Capella> but its safer to start with inbound?
  341. # [18:08] <@tbsaunde> well, I'd say saner not safter but sure
  342. # [18:09] <@davidb> always land inbound
  343. # [18:15] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-654DF715.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout)
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  347. # [18:35] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Hm, regarding BrowserID, I keep getting password requests infrequently to sign into sites. Isn't BrowserID supposed to be about not to have to enter passwords all the time as to not transmit them over the WiFi you're happening to sit on right now?
  348. # [18:38] <@davidb> i get them too
  349. # [18:39] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-15EB76B9.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  350. # [18:41] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Interesting. I'll ask around, then.
  351. # [18:43] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: You there?
  352. # [18:49] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
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  355. # [18:54] <Mark_Capella> davidb: with all your bugmail, did you notice this one?
  356. # [18:54] <Mark_Capella> Bug 751435 - Make role strings consistent
  357. # [18:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751435 min, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Make role strings consistent
  358. # [18:56] <@davidb> yeah i read that on the bus then forgot about it
  359. # [18:56] <Mark_Capella> is ok ... low priority
  360. # [18:56] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I thought you filed it...
  361. # [18:57] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i filed something different, then changed it based on a post review comment from surkov
  362. # [18:57] <@davidb> i actually don't care much about the bug at this point
  363. # [18:58] <@tbsaunde> ah
  364. # [18:58] <@tbsaunde> me neither
  365. # [18:58] <Mark_Capella> dont care about 751435?
  366. # [18:59] * Quits: arky (arky@88F5ACDE.FC9D7307.FA662B63.IP) (Ping timeout)
  367. # [18:59] <@davidb> Mark_Capella: there is no urgency
  368. # [19:00] <Mark_Capella> what i wanted to know - ill drop it
  369. # [19:00] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@3525974A.DA9DCE7D.79933D60.IP) (Client exited)
  370. # [19:01] <@eeejay> hey MarcoZ
  371. # [19:01] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 751435 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  372. # [19:01] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com set the Resolution field on bug 751435 to INCOMPLETE.
  373. # [19:03] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  374. # [19:04] <@davidb> eeejay: hey
  375. # [19:04] <@davidb> errr i'll 'hey' you in a min
  376. # [19:07] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@3525974A.DA9DCE7D.79933D60.IP)
  377. # [19:11] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  378. # [19:12] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com cancelled review?(dbolter@mozilla.com ) for attachment 621342 on bug 492557.
  379. # [19:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=492557 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, create a keyboard shortcut HUD?
  380. # [19:12] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Hi! I was wondering what the status for Android a11y currently is. I lost track of what bug does what. Do regular Android nightlies have a11y now which can be enabled, or do I still need special builds from you?
  381. # [19:14] * Joins: arky (arky@8AAA7150.53BA259D.FA662B63.IP)
  382. # [19:14] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, they should be in nightly, as of yesterday
  383. # [19:14] * @eeejay downloads and checks
  384. # [19:17] <@davidb> i'm not hearing fennec nightly
  385. # [19:21] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 621232 on bug 752125.
  386. # [19:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752125 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Switch to a role-based traversal rule
  387. # [19:27] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, sorry for not being responsive. i'm checking nightly now
  388. # [19:27] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: So, what do I have to do, then? Download and install nightly, and?
  389. # [19:27] <@MarcoZ> Crossed.
  390. # [19:27] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, i'll let you know if a few minutes. if it is not in nightly yet, i'll email you once it is
  391. # [19:28] <@eeejay> downloading at 20 kbps
  392. # [19:29] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 621234 on bug 752131.
  393. # [19:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752131 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Do not return empty string elements in utterances
  394. # [19:29] <@hub> are you in Canada eeejay ? ;-)
  395. # [19:30] <@eeejay> uh oh
  396. # [19:30] * @eeejay fueled hub's hatred for all things canadian carrier related
  397. # [19:31] <@eeejay> hub, for *once* i would like to hear you say something good about rogers ;)
  398. # [19:31] <@davidb> eeejay: all i should need to do is enable talkback right?
  399. # [19:31] <@davidb> (i have ics)
  400. # [19:32] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah
  401. # [19:32] <@hub> eeejay: the only good thing is that I haven't been their customer since '09 and that where I'm going I won't be forced to give them money to get TV
  402. # [19:33] <@eeejay> hub, that will do
  403. # [19:34] <@davidb> eeejay: do i need to do the dpad keyboard thingy?
  404. # [19:35] <@eeejay> davidb, yep :)
  405. # [19:35] <@davidb> frack
  406. # [19:35] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, nightly talks!
  407. # [19:35] <@davidb> i forget
  408. # [19:35] <@davidb> yeah it talks for me too
  409. # [19:35] <@davidb> eeejay: how do i set that up again?
  410. # [19:35] <@eeejay> um
  411. # [19:35] <@eeejay> when it doesn't freeze
  412. # [19:35] <@davidb> you'll want to tell MarcoZ too before he blogs
  413. # [19:36] <@eeejay> davidb, go to input methods and enable talkback keyboard
  414. # [19:36] <@eeejay> oh gawd
  415. # [19:37] <@davidb> this UI is fantastically bad
  416. # [19:37] <@eeejay> i know!
  417. # [19:38] * @eeejay needs to write an email to the larger ff mobile list and to the android a11y list
  418. # [19:38] <@davidb> should i set explore by touch to on?
  419. # [19:39] <@davidb> i think the options were organized via darts and a dartboard that rotates
  420. # [19:39] <@hub> davidb: 1:1?
  421. # [19:39] <@davidb> hub: heading to phone room now
  422. # [19:42] <@eeejay> davidb, no to explore by touch
  423. # [19:47] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Ping timeout)
  424. # [19:50] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@moz-ED3249A4.dmz.releng.scl3.mozilla.com)
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  428. # [20:07] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: davidb: So, download nightly from http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/latest-mozilla-central-android/
  429. # [20:07] <@davidb> eeejay: i couldn't find the keyboard thing on ics… i probably need to dload something first right?
  430. # [20:07] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 621643 on bug 750295.
  431. # [20:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750295 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't cache gStringBundle in nsAccessNode
  432. # [20:07] <@MarcoZ> Run Talkback, go to Input method and enable Talkback keyboard, and that's it?
  433. # [20:07] <@davidb> i think we want more detailed instructions
  434. # [20:07] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, if you don't have a physical keyboard
  435. # [20:07] <@davidb> and by adroid version
  436. # [20:07] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, if you do, than don't bother with the special keyboard
  437. # [20:08] * @eeejay looks for pre-existing docs
  438. # [20:08] * @MarcoZ didn't find the page any more where the QR code is for downloading the latest Fennec nightly build.
  439. # [20:10] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@714E29CB.13DB46CE.3B93FF6D.IP)
  440. # [20:10] <@eeejay> there is this: http://eyes-free.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/documentation/android_access/enabling.html
  441. # [20:11] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  442. # [20:11] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 621666 on bug 750287.
  443. # [20:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750287 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, don't cache is form fill enabled pref
  444. # [20:13] <@eeejay> davidb, MarcoZ, you need to download the "Eyes-Free Keyboard" from android market
  445. # [20:13] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Nah I think if someone is eager to try it out on Android, they already have a working TalkBack.
  446. # [20:13] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, agreed
  447. # [20:13] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: The Eyes-Free keyboard is for if I want to install this stuff on the Galaxy Tab, right?
  448. # [20:13] <@davidb> MarcoZ: i mean the keyboards stuff
  449. # [20:14] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, yes
  450. # [20:14] <@davidb> and i think sighted devs may want to try this
  451. # [20:14] <@davidb> and my boss :)
  452. # [20:14] <@eeejay> maybe we should consider explore-by-touch sooner rather than later...
  453. # [20:14] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah I don't plan on blogging this tonight. I'll do this tomorrow and send it to you and Eeejay for proof reading before I publish.
  454. # [20:15] <@davidb> groovy
  455. # [20:15] <@davidb> eeejay: it depends.
  456. # [20:15] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, thanks for blogging :)
  457. # [20:15] * @MarcoZ is unsure himself on how this will work. And I only have Android 2.3.something, and will have a properly flashed Galaxy Tab with ICS tomorrow.
  458. # [20:15] * @eeejay is having prioritizing schizo
  459. # [20:16] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, we are targetting pre-ics users for now
  460. # [20:16] <@davidb> eeejay: i can help
  461. # [20:17] <@davidb> eeejay: all i have to do is listen and you will work it out while explaining the options
  462. # [20:17] <@eeejay> davidb, we could do that on the 1:1
  463. # [20:17] <@eeejay> davidb, just thinking about the q goals
  464. # [20:19] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: OK, so should I not flash the Tab, then? It currently has the Samsung default whatever on it.
  465. # [20:19] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, that should not be a priority, no.
  466. # [20:19] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, firefox mobile doesn't even have atablet ui yet, afaik
  467. # [20:20] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: OK, so I'll use the HTC only, the one that you already know, and use that. You know what Android you flahsed on it for me.
  468. # [20:20] * Quits: arky (arky@8AAA7150.53BA259D.FA662B63.IP) (Quit: Leaving)
  469. # [20:20] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, 2.3.4 i think (cyanogenmod 9)
  470. # [20:21] <@eeejay> er, i mean cyanogenmod 7
  471. # [20:24] <@MarcoZ> OK!
  472. # [20:24] <@MarcoZ> And that should suffice?
  473. # [20:25] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: ^
  474. # [20:25] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, yep. you might want to uninstall whatever build i put there. just to make sure
  475. # [20:27] <@MarcoZ> Will do! And then go to that FTP folder and download the apk?
  476. # [20:27] <@eeejay> Yeah, it is on the nightly website too
  477. # [20:28] <@MarcoZ> OK!
  478. # [20:28] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@714E29CB.13DB46CE.3B93FF6D.IP) (Ping timeout)
  479. # [20:29] <@MarcoZ> OK, I think I'm done for the evening. See you all tomorrow! By the time you wake up, I'll hopefully have made some progress.
  480. # [20:31] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@moz-7AD0B9CB.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  481. # [20:31] * Quits: @MarcoZ (Daily@moz-92E72603.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: night all!)
  482. # [20:39] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 752609 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  483. # [20:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752609 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Shorten a11y event and role constant prefixes
  484. # [21:00] * @davidb downloads eyes-free keybarfpukewhattheshit
  485. # [21:17] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
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  488. # [21:19] <@davidb> one you set it up this is decent
  489. # [21:20] <@davidb> eeejay: you should check out the shared office in portland
  490. # [21:21] <@eeejay> davidb, i will!
  491. # [21:21] <@davidb> it is on vidyo now
  492. # [21:21] <@eeejay> heh, i wonder if i need to give them heads up
  493. # [21:21] <@eeejay> davidb, once you set what up?
  494. # [21:21] <@davidb> can't hurt
  495. # [21:21] <@davidb> fennec nightly tts
  496. # [21:23] <@eeejay> ah
  497. # [21:24] <@eeejay> it will get better tomorrow probably, with 5 new patches
  498. # [21:26] <@davidb> less leafy?
  499. # [21:26] <@hub> can't use Fennec over my secondary data service over 3G. :-/
  500. # [21:27] <@davidb> hub: huh?
  501. # [21:27] <@hub> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=749352
  502. # [21:27] <@firebot> Bug 749352 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Firefox fails to connect when a proxy is used
  503. # [21:29] <@davidb> oh
  504. # [21:31] <@davidb> eeejay: why is the order "list item 3 of 4, link, newsletters"?
  505. # [21:31] <@eeejay> davidb, how do you mean? too verbose?
  506. # [21:32] <@eeejay> oh, the order
  507. # [21:32] <@davidb> i'm just wondering why the name isn't first
  508. # [21:32] <@davidb> imagine going through a long list looking for "dog"
  509. # [21:33] <@eeejay> davidb, i have seen it done both ways. this was easier to implement. but yeah, maybe it should be reversed by default
  510. # [21:33] <@davidb> well don't go by me… i'm just making assumptions
  511. # [21:33] <@eeejay> davidb, when you assume
  512. # [21:33] <@davidb> you make an ass
  513. # [21:33] <@eeejay> it makes us both look like idiots :)
  514. # [21:33] <@davidb> heh
  515. # [21:34] <@davidb> eeejay: photon dependent people should not be deciding this.
  516. # [21:34] <@eeejay> davidb, re:implementation. i need to redo it, but in the prototype i had it do preorder traversal for reading a whole container, and it made putting the description first better
  517. # [21:34] <@eeejay> yeah
  518. # [21:35] <@davidb> i'm happy to be wrong, just prodding.
  519. # [21:35] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  520. # [21:37] <@eeejay> davidb, in needs to be configurable (in some hidden pref), and someone else that is not us should make the call on what is right
  521. # [21:37] <@eeejay> for default
  522. # [21:37] <@davidb> agreed
  523. # [21:41] * Bryen bounces around and lands in the channel.
  524. # [21:42] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 752635 filed by dbolter@mozilla.com.
  525. # [21:43] <@davidb> aww
  526. # [21:44] <Bryen> good job davidb
  527. # [21:44] <@davidb> haha
  528. # [21:52] <@eeejay> dentist, bbiab
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The end :)