/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-06-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jun 06 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  5. # [00:13] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com denied feedback for attachment 630328 on bug 725572.
  6. # [00:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725572 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove nsIAccessibilityService::GetAccessible()
  7. # [00:19] <capella> firebot: uuid
  8. # [00:19] <@firebot> 882a3bfb-65e1-4ee8-b336-6bae54b27617 (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
  9. # [00:19] <capella> firebot: cid
  10. # [00:19] <@firebot> {0x84dd9182, 0x6639, 0x4377, {0xa4, 0x13, 0xad, 0xe1, 0xae, 0x4e, 0x52, 0xdd}}
  11. # [00:20] <capella> i always forget that
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  13. # [00:34] <@tbsaunde> capella: its common, in some sense it makes sense to only bother with it right before you push so you don't have a silly conflict
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  19. # [01:49] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 761853 filed by jamie@nvaccess.org.
  20. # [01:49] <@firebot> Bug 761853 was not found.
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  29. # [03:05] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested feedback from dbolter@mozilla.c om for attachment 630390 on bug 761589.
  30. # [03:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761589 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Make accessibility.force_disabled cross platform
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  33. # [03:13] <capella> tbsaunde: sorry was afk unexpectedly ... silly conflicts can happen with new CID's you say?
  34. # [03:14] <capella> or do i misconstrue your comment?
  35. # [03:14] <@hub> capella: if someone else change it too
  36. # [03:14] <capella> ah! both of us modifying the interface ...
  37. # [03:19] <capella> hub: i re=posted that patch ... if ok with you, ill flag surkov for review?
  38. # [03:22] <@hub> capella: commented. you might want to flag surkov
  39. # [03:22] <capella> hub: k - reading
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  42. # [03:26] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 630371 on bug 725572.
  43. # [03:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725572 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove nsIAccessibilityService::GetAccessible()
  44. # [03:30] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted feedback for attachment 630283 on bug 760972.
  45. # [03:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760972 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] After fix for bug 758884, inconsistent behavior when a skip link is encountered
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  55. # [04:50] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 761891 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  56. # [04:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761891 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, HTML5 article element should expose xml-roles:article object attribute
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  65. # [05:48] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 630242 on bug 759309.
  66. # [05:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759309 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsHTMLCanvasAccessible
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  69. # [05:58] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 630273 on bug 752823.
  70. # [05:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752823 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, turn nsHTMLLiAccessible::mBullet into raw pointer
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  73. # [06:25] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 761901 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  74. # [06:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761901 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, HTML5 progress accessible should fire value change event
  75. # [06:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 630390 on bug 761589.
  76. # [06:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761589 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Make accessibility.force_disabled cross platform
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  85. # [07:26] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 630371 on bug 725572.
  86. # [07:26] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested feedback from hub@mozilla.com for attachment 630371 on bug 725572.
  87. # [07:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725572 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove nsIAccessibilityService::GetAccessible()
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  89. # [07:28] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 761910 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  90. # [07:28] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 761911 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  91. # [07:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761910 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, add text attributes testing for HTML5 mark color
  92. # [07:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761911 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, add text attribute testing for HTML strike and s elements
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  102. # [09:47] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 761943 filed by scoobidiver@netcourrier.com.
  103. # [09:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761943 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in nsXULListitemAccessible::NativeInteractiveState
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  109. # [11:03] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 761943 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  110. # [11:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761943 cri, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, crash in nsXULListitemAccessible::NativeInteractiveState
  111. # [11:53] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hi
  112. # [11:53] <@surkov> hi, tbsaunde
  113. # [11:55] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, I'm not sure I understand why you don't like using nsRange, when it only means we reorganize some other things
  114. # [11:56] <@tbsaunde> in every case we called HypertextOffsetsToDOMRange() before we'd create or use an nsRange at some point anyway
  115. # [11:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: because nsRange makes unneeded things
  116. # [11:57] <@surkov> so you want to transform offsets into DOM points and why would you need to add mutation observers for that?
  117. # [11:58] <@surkov> it's so bad as nsCOMPtr usage instead of static_cast for example
  118. # [11:58] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 630485 on bug 761943.
  119. # [11:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761943 cri, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, crash in nsXULListitemAccessible::NativeInteractiveState
  120. # [11:59] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I would agree its bad if somebody did the convertion, and then didn't use the nsRange for anything, but they ll do
  121. # [11:59] <@tbsaunde> I guess if you're concerned about future things maybe
  122. # [12:00] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 630485 on bug 761943.
  123. # [12:01] <@tbsaunde> but s it is we don't add mutation observers or anything were we wouldn't before
  124. # [12:02] <@surkov> tbsaunde: maybe I miss something, does HypertextOffsetsToDOMRange use nsRange somewhere internally right now?
  125. # [12:03] <@tbsaunde> surkov: no, but all the callers do
  126. # [12:03] <@surkov> tbsaunde: scrollTo doesn't iirc
  127. # [12:03] <@tbsaunde> surkov: which scroll to?
  128. # [12:04] <capella> oh nice .... 80 chars exactly and surkov catches it :)
  129. # [12:05] <@surkov> capella, yeah, often I don't need to count them to see it :)
  130. # [12:06] <capella> i did the eyeball thing ... should have let my editor tell me
  131. # [12:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ?
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  133. # [12:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: checking :)
  134. # [12:08] <capella> tbsaunde: thanks for the fyi on the cid update last night!
  135. # [12:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it seems you're right
  136. # [12:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok I'm sain :)
  137. # [12:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I didn't look into nsCoreUtils
  138. # [12:14] <@tbsaunde> surkov: still object then?
  139. # [12:14] <@surkov> tbsaunde: no if you like
  140. # [12:14] <@surkov> I cannot say about future examples. We always can revert if we need it
  141. # [12:15] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  142. # [12:15] <@surkov> but it's unlikely since gecko is selection oriented
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  144. # [12:16] <@tbsaunde> yeah, I feel like most things actually want to deal with a rnge, though they may need to have there interface convinced
  145. # [12:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: which leaves GetDOMPointByFrame() struct DOMPoint feels silly, but I guess we could do it till we come up with something better
  146. # [12:18] <@surkov> tbsaunde: up to you, neither DOMPoint nor DOMNode, offset pair is not very good with nsRange
  147. # [12:18] <@tbsaunde> or we could just AddRef the point, and try and clean it up somehow, or return a nsINode* and only have the index be an outarg
  148. # [12:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'd just keep it with pair, but you don't like not ddrefing some things
  149. # [12:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ah, yes, dereffing is bad
  150. # [12:20] <@tbsaunde> we of course don't AddRef() frames tht re out args though they look like xpcom things
  151. # [12:20] <@surkov> so DOMPoint should be better
  152. # [12:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you cannot AddRef() frames even you wanted and that's a difference
  153. # [12:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: true, just means not AddRefing doesn't bother me as much as you
  154. # [12:22] <@surkov> we shouldn't break conventions
  155. # [12:23] <@surkov> maybe you could use *&
  156. # [12:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I guess that would work though I thought you didn't like references
  157. # [12:25] <@surkov> I don't :)
  158. # [12:26] <@surkov> maybe helper struct is a way to go
  159. # [12:26] <@tbsaunde> surkov: do you like them mroe or less than DOMPoint though?
  160. # [12:27] <@surkov> I think DOMPoint should be nice enough
  161. # [12:27] <@tbsaunde> ok
  162. # [12:28] <@tbsaunde> ok, I think whatever we do lots more work is needed on this stuff
  163. # [12:31] <@tbsaunde> surkov: any thoughts on GetPosAndText()? I feel like it should be broken up somehow...
  164. # [12:35] <@tbsaunde> so that it doesn't do a slightly different thing for each caller based on what args they pass
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  167. # [13:11] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 760757 from --- to mozilla16.
  168. # [13:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760757 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsHTMLSelectAccessible
  169. # [13:12] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 759309 from --- to mozilla16.
  170. # [13:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759309 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsHTMLCanvasAccessible
  171. # [13:13] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: What's the way to capture build errors in a file in Linux? I don't want all the make output, just the frickin' errors I'm getting. They scroll off the console screen, that's why I want to caputre them in a file.
  172. # [13:15] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: make >/dev/null should mean only the errors get sent to your terminal
  173. # [13:15] <@tbsaunde> make >/dev/null 2>some-file should sent that to a file I think
  174. # [13:15] <@tbsaunde> its all the same s msys :)
  175. # [13:17] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Thanks!
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  188. # [14:50] <@MarcoZ> OK, got the error messages. Just don't know what to do with them.
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  190. # [14:54] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: that took a really long time
  191. # [14:54] <@tbsaunde> I'd strt by reading them :)
  192. # [14:56] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: I had lunch and took the dog for a walk in the meantime, too.
  193. # [14:57] <@tbsaunde> ah
  194. # [14:57] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: If you're interested, this is what I get as errors: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1657012
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  197. # [14:57] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: I kicked off the build and went to do other stuff and came back to it like ten minutes ago.
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  199. # [15:00] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: try pulling? I wonder if you just happened to pull when someone brook android
  200. # [15:01] <@MarcoZ> Hm, that was my first thought, too, but the tbpl didn't show anything suspicious. And I had the same errors after another pull.
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  204. # [15:02] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
  205. # [15:04] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: well, then I doubt those are actually the only errors
  206. # [15:07] <@davidb> hi!
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  210. # [15:16] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Problem hopefully solved. The mozconfig that gets created by the automated script is outdated. If all goes well, I only had to change the reference to the Android SDK version.
  211. # [15:16] <@MarcoZ> Rebuilding now and will see what happens.
  212. # [15:27] <@davidb> (surkov: PM)
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  218. # [15:40] <@davidb> surkov: ping
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  237. # [16:12] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 762038 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  238. # [16:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762038 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, get rid HyperTextAccessible CID
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  240. # [16:22] <@MarcoZ> Success! I have a new app called Fennec on my Android!
  241. # [16:23] <@MarcoZ> davidb: eeejay: tbsaunde: ^
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  243. # [16:24] <@davidb> woot
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  252. # [16:44] <@tbsaunde> surkov: shouldn't we replace do_QueryObject() in CaccessibleText / CAccessibleEditableText with static cast before bug 762038?
  253. # [16:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762038 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, get rid HyperTextAccessible CID
  254. # [16:44] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yes
  255. # [16:45] <@surkov> if not at the same time :)
  256. # [16:46] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well don't we want to rename those classes to?
  257. # [16:47] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we do
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  261. # [16:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'm tempted to file gfbs for each of those classes, and once those are down all he have left I think is the use in pivots
  262. # [16:49] <@surkov> tbsaunde: please
  263. # [16:50] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  264. # [16:50] <@tbsaunde> I wish we could do something better with pivots, the double typechecking thing anoys me
  265. # [17:12] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com granted feedback for attachment 630371 on bug 725572.
  266. # [17:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725572 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Remove nsIAccessibilityService::GetAccessible()
  267. # [17:16] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 761943 from --- to mozilla16.
  268. # [17:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761943 cri, --, mozilla16, markcapella, ASSI, crash in nsXULListitemAccessible::NativeInteractiveState
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  272. # [18:07] * @MarcoZ needs to reboot Windows. brb!
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  282. # [18:17] <@MarcoZ> That's better.
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  287. # [18:53] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I was wondering whether we should land bug 760972 today on eeejay's behalf?
  288. # [18:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760972 nor, --, mozilla15, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] After fix for bug 758884, inconsistent behavior when a skip link is encountered
  289. # [18:54] <eeejay> MarcoZ, we need to get it approved for aurora too
  290. # [18:54] <eeejay> MarcoZ, I just stepped in, if you want to start that process i would appreciate it. you probably know how to do that better than me
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  294. # [18:57] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Hi! First step is to land it on inbound. It needs to be on central, and ideally verified fixed, before it is wise to request approval for Aurora.
  295. # [18:57] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: So why don't you go ahead and land it on inbound asap so it gets uplifted to central asap?
  296. # [18:59] <eeejay> MarcoZ, sounds good
  297. # [18:59] * eeejay gets on it
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  300. # [19:01] <@hub> people complaining about our a11y support on Linux https://twitter.com/MesarHameed/status/210410223163293697
  301. # [19:01] <@hub> :-/
  302. # [19:03] <blez> I think macos should be priority
  303. # [19:03] <blez> linux's a11y is buggy anyway
  304. # [19:05] <@MarcoZ> hub: I just also replied to him, asking about specifics.
  305. # [19:06] <@MarcoZ> blez: No reason not to try to fix obvious bugs if we can.
  306. # [19:06] * @davidb still dreams of a full open source open a11y stack
  307. # [19:07] <blez> davidb that's what I wanted to do. Simple SDK for screenreaders
  308. # [19:07] <blez> but on linux.. it's pretty hard
  309. # [19:09] <@MarcoZ> blez: On Windows, too. And both desktop and web content is so complex that a simple SDK is probably not possible.
  310. # [19:09] <@MarcoZ> There are just so many use cases.
  311. # [19:09] <blez> I never used the web accessibility thing, I don't even know how it works
  312. # [19:09] <blez> you add attributes which gives additonal text to the object or what?
  313. # [19:10] <blez> or I guess it's for braille
  314. # [19:12] <@MarcoZ> blez: Yes, braille is one complicating factor.
  315. # [19:12] <@MarcoZ> Other than that: The more semantic the HTML markup, the better for any current accessibility API.
  316. # [19:13] <@MarcoZ> OK guys, I'm off for today. Been at it since early this morning and really feel worn down. See you tomorrow!
  317. # [19:13] <@askalski> bye MarcoZ!
  318. # [19:13] <blez> bye
  319. # [19:13] * Quits: @MarcoZ (Daily@moz-FC1AA6F7.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Night!)
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  323. # [19:15] * mike5w3c_ is now known as mike5w3c
  324. # [19:29] <@hub> blez: on Linux you have the source code for the whole stack.
  325. # [19:30] <@hub> I take tha any day
  326. # [19:35] <blez> but no examples how to use it, except Orca which is one fat app
  327. # [19:39] <eeejay> blez, you could learn a lot in accerciser, especially with the interactive python console
  328. # [19:39] <@hub> I was about to suggest to talk to eeejay :-)
  329. # [19:39] <@hub> and look at accerciser
  330. # [19:40] <blez> eeejay strangely accerciser don't work on my ubuntu 12
  331. # [19:40] * eeejay hides
  332. # [19:40] <blez> also I like the python console, but where to read some example commands?
  333. # [19:40] <eeejay> i haven't been maintainer for 3 years!
  334. # [19:41] <@hub> eeejay: it finally is packaged in F17 :-)
  335. # [19:41] <eeejay> hub, really??
  336. # [19:41] * eeejay tries to install
  337. # [19:41] <@hub> blez: I think that's because ubuntu broke a11y
  338. # [19:41] <@hub> eeejay: yum install found it :-)
  339. # [19:41] <blez> good to talk with some who wrote on some accesibility thing :)
  340. # [19:41] <blez> eeejay accerciser can get the text under cursor, right?
  341. # [19:42] <eeejay> blez, theoretically, 4 years ago
  342. # [19:42] <blez> it loops thru the whole a11y tree I guess
  343. # [19:42] * blez shall now try accerciser on ubuntu 11
  344. # [19:43] <@hub> blez: btw Ubuntu != Linux :-)
  345. # [19:43] <blez> why lol
  346. # [19:43] <@hub> Ubuntu us as much Linux as MacOS is BSD
  347. # [19:44] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  348. # [19:46] <eeejay> cool, it is not only packaged but it works
  349. # [19:46] <eeejay> i think the explore object under mouse feature is broken
  350. # [19:47] <eeejay> it depends on wnck, and i don't think it works well with mutter
  351. # [19:47] <eeejay> might be wrong
  352. # [19:49] <blez> wnck? what's that
  353. # [19:50] <eeejay> a library for window manager things
  354. # [19:51] <blez> I don't understand how to use object under cursor
  355. # [19:51] <blez> in preferences there is Inspect accessible under mouse
  356. # [19:51] <blez> and 4 buttons, how to configure it?
  357. # [19:56] <blez> eeejay can I PM
  358. # [19:56] <eeejay> blez, by default you press ctrl+alt+?
  359. # [19:59] <blez> it's buggy
  360. # [20:00] <blez> eeejay can I PM you
  361. # [20:00] <eeejay> blez, i know that feature is buggy, that is what i said above
  362. # [20:00] <eeejay> blez, you could pm me, or we could discuss it here :)
  363. # [20:01] <blez> no it's about different thing
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  366. # [20:18] <@davidb> 4 meetings done, now to read a doc before the next one. what have i become?
  367. # [20:18] <@firebot> smichaud@pobox.com granted review for attachment 630034 on bug 759736.
  368. # [20:18] <@davidb> bah 11 pages
  369. # [20:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759736 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Add VO-only mode for FF a11y on mac.
  370. # [20:18] <@davidb> hub: \0/
  371. # [20:18] <@davidb> \o/ even
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  373. # [20:19] * @davidb reads svg a11y gap analysis
  374. # [20:34] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  376. # [20:44] <clown> davidb, you certainly are succint ;-)
  377. # [20:44] <clown> or "succinct"
  378. # [20:45] <@davidb> heh
  379. # [20:45] <@davidb> well i wasn't sure what to add.
  380. # [20:45] <@davidb> i don't want to open the same cans of worms
  381. # [20:49] <clown> too late, methinks.
  382. # [20:49] <clown> I predict that someone will be asking you how FF handles it.
  383. # [20:50] <clown> rather, Cynthia opened the can, and the worms are well on their way crawling about.
  384. # [20:51] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  385. # [20:51] <@davidb> clown: what exactly is the key issue?
  386. # [20:52] <@davidb> i like how Justin_o just escaped
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  388. # [20:52] * clown is worried that the worms are spilling everywhere...
  389. # [20:53] <clown> davidb: one of the issues is how this is handled: <input type="text" aria-required="true:>
  390. # [20:53] <@davidb> we expose it as required
  391. # [20:53] <clown> html5 has a @required attribute.
  392. # [20:53] <@davidb> indeed.
  393. # [20:53] <clown> if @required is missing it means "not required".
  394. # [20:53] <@davidb> ARIA overrides
  395. # [20:53] <@davidb> (this is the can i didn't want to open)
  396. # [20:53] <clown> not according to the spec.
  397. # [20:53] <@davidb> the spec is wrong
  398. # [20:53] <clown> yeah, I know.
  399. # [20:53] <@davidb> sigh
  400. # [20:54] <clown> the "yeah I know" is for the comment "this is the can I didn't want to open".
  401. # [20:54] <clown> not "the spec is wrong".
  402. # [20:54] <@davidb> yeah i know :)
  403. # [20:54] <clown> lol
  404. # [20:54] <@davidb> but the spec is wrong
  405. # [20:54] <@davidb> there is no reason to use aria if you are able to use required
  406. # [20:55] <clown> well, it's been "wrong" for a while then, I haven't seen any formal objections.
  407. # [20:55] <@davidb> the use case is just not there
  408. # [20:55] <@davidb> i've objected
  409. # [20:55] <clown> well, that is what the spec says:
  410. # [20:55] <clown> paraphrase:
  411. # [20:55] <@davidb> i was told that for the user agent guide we can just assume aria overrides
  412. # [20:55] <@davidb> but for authors we will not promise that
  413. # [20:56] <clown> "if there is a native attribute that is semantically equivalent to aria, then use the native attribute"
  414. # [20:56] <@davidb> that is for authors yes.
  415. # [20:56] <@davidb> i can't burn more time on this can :(
  416. # [20:57] <clown> the problem is compounded for html4 — there is no native @required, and you need to use aria-required there.
  417. # [20:57] <@davidb> (nor can you i assume)
  418. # [20:57] <@davidb> who cares about html4?
  419. # [20:57] <clown> the millions of html documents that are out there?
  420. # [20:57] <clown> but, yes, let's not spend anymore time on this now.
  421. # [20:57] <@davidb> oh you mean from the web dev perspective, ok
  422. # [20:57] <@davidb> yeah
  423. # [20:58] <@hub> davidb: yeah I'll push the fix
  424. # [20:58] <clown> enjoy your reading of svg...
  425. # [20:59] <@davidb> hub, clown thanks
  426. # [20:59] <clown> wlcm
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  431. # [21:31] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  432. # [21:42] * eeejay made the virtual dpad work again!
  433. # [21:42] <eeejay> probably completely wrong, but wth
  434. # [21:48] * @davidb rolls around in svg
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  438. # [21:58] * Quits: NimeshNeema (u2689@moz-160C58C6.com) (Client exited)
  439. # [22:09] <@davidb> well that was a surprisingly uncontroversial svg a11y call
  440. # [22:13] <eeejay> good?
  441. # [22:13] * eeejay heads to the airport
  442. # [22:16] <@hub> good grope
  443. # [22:18] <@davidb> yeah
  444. # [22:20] <capella> im worried about you guys ... rolling around in stuff and groping things...
  445. # [22:24] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 630692 on bug 760758.
  446. # [22:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760758 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsHTMLTableAccessible
  447. # [22:30] <@hub> capella: TSA is
  448. # [22:30] <@hub> capella: eeejay said he was headed to the airport
  449. # [22:30] <capella> oic --- getting groped - yah that sucks
  450. # [22:31] <capella> hub: TSA is why i wont fly
  451. # [22:31] <capella> too demeaning
  452. # [22:32] <@davidb> i like to do practise my latin dancing when they pat me down
  453. # [22:33] <@davidb> i am not a very good dancer
  454. # [22:36] * @davidb translocates
  455. # [22:36] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  456. # [22:36] <capella> last time I went .... i told the guy .... then ill do you next :P
  457. # [22:38] <capella> davidb did his nightcrawler thing
  458. # [22:43] <@hub> capella: I avoid flying to the US, that was before TSA gropes.... I don't like being treated like a criminal
  459. # [22:43] <@hub> if that's the first impression of the USofA, the americans should be ashamed.
  460. # [22:43] <@hub> (*hint*: they fingerprint and mugshot foreigners.... but from America-North)
  461. # [22:44] <capella> yep - you know it - 9/11 was evil but there has to be a better way
  462. # [22:45] <@hub> capella: guess who won
  463. # [22:45] <@hub> :-)
  464. # [22:45] <@hub> not the USofA
  465. # [22:45] <@hub> I mean the people
  466. # [22:45] <capella> right - we all lost on that deal - it only takes one group of idiots to ruin it for everyone
  467. # [22:54] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  468. # [22:55] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
  469. # [23:00] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  470. # [23:07] * Quits: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP) (Ping timeout)
  471. # [23:11] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  472. # [23:24] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 725572 from --- to mozilla16.
  473. # [23:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725572 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, ASSI, Remove nsIAccessibilityService::GetAccessible()
  474. # [23:25] <capella> bite they little heads off... nibble they tiny feet !
  475. # [23:25] <capella> >bamf<
  476. # Session Close: Thu Jun 07 00:00:00 2012

The end :)