/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-06-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jun 07 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  22. # [02:36] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 759736 from --- to mozilla16.
  23. # [02:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759736 nor, --, mozilla16, hub, NEW, Add VO-only mode for FF a11y on mac.
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  39. # [05:06] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 630692 on bug 760758.
  40. # [05:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760758 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsHTMLTableAccessible
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  45. # [06:51] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 629454 on bug 760774.
  46. # [06:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760774 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, switch ARIA role map to atoms
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  49. # [07:18] <@firebot> vseerror@lehigh.edu changed the Status on bug 524753 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
  50. # [07:18] <@firebot> vseerror@lehigh.edu set the Resolution field on bug 524753 to DUPLICATE of bug 408406.
  51. # [07:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524753 min, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, German Menu Items Are Missing Keyboard Accelerator Ampersand
  52. # [07:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=408406 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, History and Bookmarks menus need access keys
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  55. # [07:50] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 629784 on bug 759833.
  56. # [07:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759833 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, ARIA documents should fire document loading events
  57. # [08:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: can you review bug 445516?
  58. # [08:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445516 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, ASSI, Support auto-generated=true text attribute on list bullets
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  61. # [08:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'm asking because it's the first patch in my queue
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  63. # [08:28] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hi, yeah I guess so
  64. # [08:28] <@surkov> ok :)
  65. # [08:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: in future does it make any sense for GetValueFor() to take a frme instead of an accessible?
  66. # [08:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: iirc there's a version that operates on nsIContent
  67. # [08:37] <@surkov> but mostly these are frames
  68. # [08:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sounds right
  69. # [08:58] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 762389 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  70. # [08:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762389 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, de-ns-ify nsXULTreeAccessible and nsXULTreeGridAccessible
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  73. # [09:13] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 629228 on bug 445516.
  74. # [09:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445516 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, ASSI, Support auto-generated=true text attribute on list bullets
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  76. # [09:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: any reason you prefer ia2AccessibleFoo to ia2Foo?
  77. # [09:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: no real objections I think
  78. # [09:19] <@surkov> just keeping closer to IA2 interface naming
  79. # [09:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: not sure I follow "no real objections I think"
  80. # [09:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I meant I can live with any version
  81. # [09:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  82. # [09:23] <@tbsaunde> I sort of like ia2Foo since its shorter
  83. # [09:23] <@tbsaunde> but don't really care either
  84. # [09:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you have any thought about ia2 folder 1) do we need it 2) should we keep it under msaa directory (and at some point to rename msaa to windows)
  85. # [09:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: same with me, I like short names
  86. # [09:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what all isn't ia2 other than ISimpleDOM, and IAccessible?
  87. # [09:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yes, everything starting from ia2
  88. # [09:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: soon we should get bunch of uia files which it'd be nice to keep in separate folder too
  89. # [09:28] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, ok that seems like a reasonable plan
  90. # [09:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: is anyone actually working on uia stuff?
  91. # [09:32] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'm looking into it
  92. # [09:33] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 762394 filed by trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  93. # [09:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762394 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, replace do_QueryObject() with static cast in CAccessibleText
  94. # [09:33] <@surkov> I wanna introduce uia basics and most complicated parts and then split the work into gfb
  95. # [09:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, didn't know you were making progress
  96. # [09:38] <@surkov> tbsaunde: not much progress, couple of wips
  97. # [09:38] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 762396 filed by trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  98. # [09:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762396 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, replace do_QueryObject() with static cast in CAccessibleEditableText
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  101. # [10:02] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you know let's keep isAccessibleFoo naming, I don't want to rename existing files one more time
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  103. # [10:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  104. # [10:11] <@tbsaunde> you want to comment in bugs or shall I?
  105. # [10:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ?
  106. # [10:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if you don't mind please do
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  108. # [10:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  109. # [10:44] <@tbsaunde> surkov: done :)
  110. # [10:48] <@MarcoZ> YES! Try build from bug 755976 works very well on the Nexus with the virtual d-pad! \-O-/
  111. # [10:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=755976 nor, --, Firefox 15, cpeterson, NEW, Virtual D-Pad does not send key press events when caret browsing is enabled
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  114. # [10:58] <@tbsaunde> 3333
  115. # [10:58] <@tbsaunde> surkov: anything else before I try and sleep?
  116. # [11:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: nothing urgent
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  126. # [12:37] <@firebot> junky.argonaut@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 630910 on bug 429990.
  127. # [12:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429990 nor, --, ---, junky.argonaut, NEW, check in/out arguments on NULL in MSAA/IA2 methods
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  130. # [13:12] <capella> >bamf<
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  134. # [14:08] <@MarcoZ> capella: ?
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  141. # [14:45] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 630910 on bug 429990.
  142. # [14:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429990 nor, --, ---, junky.argonaut, NEW, check in/out arguments on NULL in MSAA/IA2 methods
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  145. # [14:48] <@firebot> neil@httl.net granted superreview for attachment 629454 on bug 760774.
  146. # [14:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760774 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, switch ARIA role map to atoms
  147. # [14:48] <capella> marcoz: here
  148. # [14:49] <@MarcoZ> capella: I was referring to your earlier msg here in channel, the cryptic one. :D
  149. # [14:50] <capella> x-men character nightcraler makes silly noise when teleporting out :)
  150. # [14:54] <@MarcoZ> Ah I see!
  151. # [14:55] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 759736 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  152. # [14:55] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 759736 to FIXED.
  153. # [14:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759736 nor, --, mozilla16, hub, RESO FIXED, Add VO-only mode for FF a11y on mac.
  154. # [14:56] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 445516 from --- to mozilla16.
  155. # [14:56] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 445516.
  156. # [14:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445516 nor, --, mozilla16, andrew.quartey, ASSI, Support auto-generated=true text attribute on list bullets
  157. # [14:57] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 725572 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  158. # [14:57] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 725572 to FIXED.
  159. # [14:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725572 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, Remove nsIAccessibilityService::GetAccessible()
  160. # [14:59] <capella> go ed!
  161. # [15:00] <@firebot> Ms2ger@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 760757 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  162. # [15:00] <@firebot> Ms2ger@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 760757 to FIXED.
  163. # [15:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760757 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, de-ns-ify nsHTMLSelectAccessible
  164. # [15:00] <@firebot> Ms2ger@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 759309 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  165. # [15:00] <@firebot> Ms2ger@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 759309 to FIXED.
  166. # [15:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759309 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, de-ns-ify nsHTMLCanvasAccessible
  167. # [15:02] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 760972 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  168. # [15:03] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 760972 to FIXED.
  169. # [15:03] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 760972 from mozilla15 to mozilla16.
  170. # [15:03] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 761943 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  171. # [15:03] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 761943 to FIXED.
  172. # [15:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761943 cri, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, crash in nsXULListitemAccessible::NativeInteractiveState
  173. # [15:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760972 nor, --, mozilla16, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] After fix for bug 758884, inconsistent behavior when a skip link is encountered
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  177. # [15:09] <capella> that is so pretty
  178. # [15:10] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested approval-mozilla-aurora from the wind for attachment 630485 on bug 761943.
  179. # [15:10] <@surkov> capella: indeed
  180. # [15:11] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 760758 from --- to mozilla16.
  181. # [15:11] <capella> icing ....
  182. # [15:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760758 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsHTMLTableAccessible
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  184. # [15:15] <@MarcoZ> Wow, lots of landings on central today! Nice!
  185. # [15:16] <capella> yah - squished a red one too
  186. # [15:16] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Am I correct in assuming that text of ROLE_STATICTEXT now has the auto-generated "true" attribute set if it is a list bullet or number, but not if it is css :before or :after text?
  187. # [15:16] <@MarcoZ> capella: Nice!
  188. # [15:17] <capella> hats off to surkov - pointed it @ me
  189. # [15:23] <@MarcoZ> Yeah, bug 445516 is exactly what AccessVu needs to not ignore :before and:after texts.
  190. # [15:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445516 nor, --, mozilla16, andrew.quartey, ASSI, Support auto-generated=true text attribute on list bullets
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  192. # [15:25] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 762469 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  193. # [15:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762469 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] No longer ignore text generated by :before and :after CSS properties
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  196. # [15:33] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 762389 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  197. # [15:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762389 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, de-ns-ify nsXULTreeAccessible and nsXULTreeGridAccessible
  198. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
  199. # [15:35] <@davidb> hi!
  200. # [15:35] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 760881 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  201. # [15:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760881 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, decomtaminate Select Row / Column() on accessible tables
  202. # [15:35] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  203. # [15:37] <capella> hates them COMs too ...
  204. # [15:43] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@A03932FF.89BB3D44.4873E54D.IP)
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  207. # [16:01] <@davidb> capella: you are a one man wrecking machine
  208. # [16:02] <capella> maybe not the best .... but up there prolific - ways B)
  209. # [16:03] <capella> the plan is to hack a little of everything ... then it'll all make sense
  210. # [16:04] <@davidb> the best way to understand code is if you wrote it
  211. # [16:04] <@davidb> and often, the easiest.
  212. # [16:07] <capella> yah ! often ill re-write something in place, changing stuff to my personal naming standards and such, makes you get into
  213. # [16:07] <capella> every single line of code
  214. # [16:07] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  215. # [16:11] <capella> doesnt want to alarm marcoz ... but theres a lot of pretty access-fu bugs .... i bet i can mess that up real good :D
  216. # [16:17] <@MarcoZ> capella: Hah, most of them are being taken care of straight away when they are filed. I'm working on the one I just filed right now. :)
  217. # [16:18] <capella> I feel weird openning a bug request and then working on it myself ... asif I'm just trying to keep myself busy :)
  218. # [16:18] <capella> Which i am but thats a different story
  219. # [16:20] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  220. # [16:21] * @tbsaunde|afk usually writes a patch and then files a bug :)
  221. # [16:21] <@MarcoZ> capella: For us, Bugzilla is the catch-all tracking tool. Why should I not work on a bug I filed myself? It needs to be tracked no matter who works on it. :)
  222. # [16:22] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde|afk: I kind of worked the same way this time. bug 445516 landed on inbound, I knew we had a problem in AccessFu regarding statictext, and I knew how to fix it. So I filed the bug, primarily so I had a bug number to reference, and then wrote the patch.
  223. # [16:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=445516 nor, --, mozilla16, andrew.quartey, ASSI, Support auto-generated=true text attribute on list bullets
  224. # [16:23] <capella> I suppose its okay as long as the bug is non-trivial ... I've seen people write bugs like that to themselves over and over
  225. # [16:25] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested feedback from dbolter@mozilla.c om for attachment 630967 on bug 762469.
  226. # [16:25] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 762469 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  227. # [16:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762469 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] No longer ignore text generated by :before and :after CSS properties
  228. # [16:26] <@MarcoZ> surkov: What less heavy solution did you have in mind?
  229. # [16:27] <@surkov> MarcoZ: nothing nice but you can do something like if (accessible->IsListBullet()) ignore
  230. # [16:27] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 630967 on bug 762469.
  231. # [16:28] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Is that a method accessible from JS?
  232. # [16:28] <@surkov> MarcoZ: no
  233. # [16:28] <@surkov> MarcoZ: but you can make pivot to do this
  234. # [16:29] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Hm, not sure that would be right, since pivot itself does not make up any rules itself, but gets the rules told by the appropriate MatchRules interface.
  235. # [16:30] <@surkov> MarcoZ: correct, what prevents you to expose a rule to ignore or not ignore bullets?
  236. # [16:32] <@MarcoZ> surkov: Hm, they have the same role as css generated text, don't they?
  237. # [16:33] <@surkov> MarcoZ: see constants of nsIAccessibleTraversalRule
  238. # [16:33] <@MarcoZ> So I need some way to tell them apart, and I thought auto-generated did that for me. :(
  239. # [16:34] <@surkov> you can add PREFILTER_IGNORELISTBULLETS constant
  240. # [16:35] <@MarcoZ> And then go into nsAccessiblePivot and hack something in there?
  241. # [16:35] <@surkov> it'll be much faster than text attributes and taking into account auto-gen text attar doesn't allow you to distinguish css gen content from bullet then it's a right way to go
  242. # [16:35] <@surkov> MarcoZ: correct
  243. # [16:37] * tbsaunde|afk is now known as tbsaunde
  244. # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: true, perhaps we should add some better api for though?
  245. # [16:38] * @MarcoZ ditches patch.
  246. # [16:38] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what kind of api?
  247. # [16:38] <@surkov> to the pivot?
  248. # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: no, on accessibles probably
  249. # [16:38] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com cancelled feedback?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) for attachment 630967 on bug 762469.
  250. # [16:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762469 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] No longer ignore text generated by :before and :after CSS properties
  251. # [16:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: accessible from js?
  252. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: but first we'd need to figure out what the question we're actually trying to answer here is
  253. # [16:39] <@surkov> true :)
  254. # [16:41] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'll probably live with it, but I do dislike keeping adding $MY_SPECIAL_BUT_USEFUL_HACK to pivots
  255. # [16:42] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: The question we want to answer here is that we want to skip list bullets but not other accessibles of ROLE_STATICTEXT.
  256. # [16:42] <@surkov> tbsaunde: well, it seems the easiest way, for now.
  257. # [16:42] <@MarcoZ> surkov: So does this IsListBullet exist already?
  258. # [16:43] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I don't disagree with it being easy
  259. # [16:43] <@MarcoZ> firebot: uuid
  260. # [16:43] <@firebot> 2ce1e37a-55f4-419a-a2fa-479991c3fdc4 (/msg firebot cid for CID form)
  261. # [16:44] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, you're welcome for ideas :) All I wanted to say original Marco's approach doesn't work :)
  262. # [16:44] <@surkov> MarcoZ: no
  263. # [16:45] <@MarcoZ> fuck
  264. # [16:45] <@MarcoZ> Darn, this is getting so complicated again that I am tempted to throw it to somebody else.
  265. # [16:45] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it's easy to add but let's ping Trevor, he might want to come with something else
  266. # [16:46] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, I wonder what other screen readers do here
  267. # [16:46] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Undetermined. Some speak bullets because they happen to have them in their dictionaries, others ignore them.
  268. # [16:46] <@surkov> tbsaunde: who knows but due to some reason they want an accessible (perhaps they do if (list item ) first child is a bullet
  269. # [16:47] <@surkov> tbsaunde: why I suggested to hack a pivot is I don't have more use cases to think about more generic solution
  270. # [16:48] * @MarcoZ is wondering if we should ignore them at all. Since users might be interested to know whether something is a star, bullet, or whatever.
  271. # [16:48] <@surkov> MarcoZ: it's your call actually
  272. # [16:48] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure
  273. # [16:49] <@MarcoZ> So if I wanted to just change things that, for items that are html:li, read the complete subtree instead of just the text leaves, that might be easier, no?
  274. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> I think we're currently ignoring the numbers in numbered lists, too.
  275. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> Which is definitely not what we want.
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  278. # [17:02] <@surkov> MarcoZ: gogo point
  279. # [17:02] <@surkov> gogo -> good
  280. # [17:03] <@MarcoZ> surkov: So, should I just add ROLE_LISTITEM to the matched rules in virtualCursorController.jsm, and tell it to match the subtree?
  281. # [17:03] <@surkov> MarcoZ: I thought vc goes into list items right now
  282. # [17:04] <@surkov> MarcoZ: actually I don't recall all paths of Eitan if/else code
  283. # [17:04] <@surkov> I think he's a best person to ask
  284. # [17:05] <@MarcoZ> OK, will do!
  285. # [17:05] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-75218163.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  286. # [17:07] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I'm meeting with HR about rypple a11y this afternoon. from my experiments i see a lot of unlabelled focusable things
  287. # [17:07] <@davidb> curious if you have other input
  288. # [17:09] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Lots of unlabelled clickable graphics, and dynamic stuff that doesn't get keyboard focus or other indications that they just appeared.
  289. # [17:09] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And yeah, all those unlabelled form controls.
  290. # [17:09] <@davidb> ok cool
  291. # [17:10] <@davidb> in general i want 1 outcome: a dev contact that we can help fix this stuff
  292. # [17:10] <@davidb> but it doesn't hurt to spread the a11y reqs through HR :)
  293. # [17:12] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 762469 from ASSIGNED to NEW.
  294. # [17:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762469 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] No longer ignore text generated by :before and :after CSS properties
  295. # [17:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Definitely agreed!
  296. # [17:18] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net)
  297. # [17:19] <icaaq> a try to make the pager on mozilla.org a little bit more accessible, please try it out if you have the time :) http://icaaq.com/sandbox/mozilla/a11y-tab.htm
  298. # [17:27] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: What exactly did you change? I see that you made the "Mozilla" button at the top expandable and that it drops down the thing about downloading Firefox beta, the about, products, development etc. sections. Is that the change you mean?
  299. # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I'm looking at how quick nav keys could work. If I get this right, they would just be a set of matchrules that differ in roles, and adding the keys to the keypress observer. In VirtualCursorController.jsm, that is.
  300. # [17:34] <icaaq> MarcoZ: on the current pager you only hear one of the pager-items, it's the one after the "privacy link" and the list with three items.
  301. # [17:35] <@davidb> MarcoZ: yes
  302. # [17:35] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  303. # [17:36] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Not sure I understand. I get the "privacy" link, and the last item in that list is "Report trademark abuse".
  304. # [17:37] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Then, there's another list with items such as "twitter", "facebook", and "Firefox affiliate".
  305. # [17:37] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: This is the same on both your version and mozilla.org.
  306. # [17:40] <icaaq> MarcoZ: you have a privacy link earlier as well after free download, system languages, what's new. you have that link. I can mark it up so you can hear where I've changed, wait one sec.
  307. # [17:40] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  308. # [17:42] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Found it.
  309. # [17:42] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: So the pagers are the "download Firefox beta", "congratulations to the winners", etc.?
  310. # [17:43] <icaaq> yes
  311. # [17:43] <@MarcoZ> (whatever pagers are, anyway)
  312. # [17:44] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Ah, on the regular mozilla.org, I only see the "congratulations" part.
  313. # [17:45] <icaaq> MarcoZ: yes, you only see the one that is "visible" at the moment
  314. # [17:45] <@MarcoZ> OK.
  315. # [17:47] <icaaq> MarcoZ: If only I could hide the list with the black circles for AT then it would be great, I've added aria-hidden="true" but it only works in some browsers/screenreaders
  316. # [17:50] <@davidb> icaaq: you could put role="presentation" on each and every element to force it
  317. # [17:53] <icaaq> davidb: yes, but that's to much clutter #imho NVDA and you guys need to fix this ;)
  318. # [17:54] <@davidb> fair
  319. # [17:54] <@davidb> note we implement it the way it was originally intended
  320. # [17:54] * @davidb grumbles
  321. # [17:55] <@davidb> icaaq: got a link so i can see what we're talking about?
  322. # [17:55] <@davidb> oh i see
  323. # [17:56] <@davidb> back after lunch
  324. # [17:56] <icaaq> davidb: http://icaaq.com/sandbox/mozilla/a11y-tab.htm 
  325. # [17:58] <icaaq> davidb: it works really great for sighted keyboard users :)
  326. # [17:59] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Hi! Did you get anything started yet w.r.t. quick nav keys for AccessFu? If not, I'd like to take a stab at it.
  327. # [18:18] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
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  330. # [18:33] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 760774 from --- to mozilla16.
  331. # [18:33] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 760774.
  332. # [18:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760774 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, switch ARIA role map to atoms
  333. # [18:42] <@MarcoZ> Filling out forms in Fennec really is nice now! \-O-/
  334. # [18:44] <eeejay> MarcoZ, how do you mean quick nav? headers links, etc?
  335. # [18:44] <eeejay> for the life of me, i can never figure out how to read a tbpl page
  336. # [18:44] <eeejay> are any of the failures here my fault?
  337. # [18:45] <eeejay> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=c3873f06b4fc
  338. # [18:45] <eeejay> how do i compare to the parent revision?
  339. # [18:45] * Joins: hub (hub@A5087023.2354C43D.D8E68FF6.IP)
  340. # [18:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  341. # [18:47] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Just click on the 4 failures in turn and look.
  342. # [18:47] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: click on the failed tests, and there should be a summary at the button
  343. # [18:47] <@tbsaunde> buttom even
  344. # [18:48] <eeejay> MarcoZ, I did, and it is some failed reftests that don't seem related at all
  345. # [18:48] <@tbsaunde> tbsaunde.spellingfail++
  346. # [18:48] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: I agree, so I'd just ask for review. These seem like random fails.
  347. # [18:49] <@MarcoZ> The third one, for example, seems to be a known orange, according to the summary. Something having to do with SVG.
  348. # [18:50] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Actually anything that is to do with reftests is usually not our fault, unless we work in content or layout code and cause a regression in rendering.
  349. # [18:50] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: And yes, I meant quick nav keys like h for next heading, etc.
  350. # [18:52] <eeejay> MarcoZ, have at it. make a meta bug and a new one for each kind of navigation you introduce. what keyboard keys will you choose? nvda? ios? perhaps it is worth looking at what chromevox uses since we want to be uniform with the android experience
  351. # [18:53] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Does ChromeVox even have quick nav keys?
  352. # [18:53] <eeejay> MarcoZ, i believe so
  353. # [18:53] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: I was thinking of going with the NVDA mappings for now.
  354. # [18:53] * eeejay looks
  355. # [18:55] <eeejay> MarcoZ, http://www.chromevox.com/keyboard_shortcuts.html
  356. # [18:55] <eeejay> under jump commands
  357. # [18:56] <eeejay> i assume nvda has a much larger userbase than chromevox, and we love them, so maybe that is a better idea
  358. # [18:56] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@5F83DAE4.67A28CF2.EBE09E3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  359. # [19:01] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  360. # [19:03] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Fortunately, many of the keys are similar. There are a few differences, which should be easy to learn.
  361. # [19:05] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: And we don't have a chromeVox key that we need to introduce, and then that n and p thing. Ideally, we would just allow the quick nav keys outside of entries. Similar to what Orca does.
  362. # [19:06] <@MarcoZ> s/entries/form fields/
  363. # [19:06] <eeejay> MarcoZ, right
  364. # [19:06] <eeejay> MarcoZ, I want to introduce pressing the phone back button would blur the form field
  365. # [19:07] <@MarcoZ> I will start on this tomorrow. However, since much of this stuff is *very* similar, I might do it in one big patch instead of filing separate bugs for each of those 15 or so keys I expect to have.
  366. # [19:07] <eeejay> that is not real grammar, but you get it
  367. # [19:07] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: What is the "phone back" button exactly? You mean the one at the very bottom left?
  368. # [19:08] <eeejay> MarcoZ, depending on what model :) but i think in the nexus, yes
  369. # [19:08] <@MarcoZ> Yeah it's that very bottom left control of the touch screen, and to the right of it is the "home" button.
  370. # [19:09] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Why do you want to introduce that?
  371. # [19:09] <eeejay> MarcoZ, so in "accessibility mode", if you press the back button when text input is focused, it would blur it, if you press it again, the browser would use it (ie. navigate back a page)
  372. # [19:09] <eeejay> MarcoZ, so users don't need to arrow their way out of a field in order to continue navigating
  373. # [19:10] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: I get it, nice idea!
  374. # [19:11] <@MarcoZ> But first, let's get that IME bug squashed! :) Again: This try build is great to use.
  375. # [19:13] <blez> what's important if someone builds screenreader sdk?
  376. # [19:13] <blez> except getting the name/value under the cursor and the pid of the app
  377. # [19:14] <@MarcoZ> blez: Roles, states, attributes (for example text formatting info), and a whole bunch of other stuff that is needed by one assistive technology or another.
  378. # [19:15] <@MarcoZ> OK, off for the evening. See you tomorrow!
  379. # [19:15] * Quits: @MarcoZ (Daily@moz-41445DBC.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Night!)
  380. # [19:21] <blez> so I won't help with my library
  381. # [19:22] <blez> it just shows the text under cursor on windows and mac
  382. # [19:40] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Target Milestone on bug 756296 from --- to mozilla16.
  383. # [19:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=756296 nor, --, mozilla16, eitan, NEW, nsIAccessiblePivot move to coordinate method
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  385. # [20:19] <icaaq> is it just me or does not nightly work with voice over any more?
  386. # [20:19] <@hub> icaaq: on Mac?
  387. # [20:19] <icaaq> hub: yes
  388. # [20:19] <@hub> icaaq: yeah we disabled it because of other issues
  389. # [20:19] <@hub> that impacted non a11y users
  390. # [20:19] <@hub> we'll put it back very soon
  391. # [20:19] <icaaq> hub: ok, thanks
  392. # [20:20] <@hub> bug 761763 to track that
  393. # [20:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761763 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Re-enable Mac a11y in nightly
  394. # [20:42] <@hub> davidb: seen this? http://www.gnome.org/testimonials/diegosanchez/
  395. # [20:42] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-6F22CAC7.e7jvsoe-gw.cust.sover.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
  396. # [20:43] <@davidb> uhoh
  397. # [20:43] <@davidb> is it good or bad
  398. # [20:43] <@davidb> hurrah!
  399. # [20:44] <@hub> davidb: it is good. they use a11y has a driver to fundraise for Gnome
  400. # [20:44] <@hub> s/has/as/
  401. # [20:44] <@davidb> uhm
  402. # [20:44] <@davidb> if people give thinking it is for a11y it should be for a11y
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  408. # [21:02] <@hub> davidb: not sure what the thing is, to be honest
  409. # [21:02] <@hub> we should ask
  410. # [21:04] <@hub> but they say "Help us make 2012 the year of accessibility!"
  411. # [21:04] <@hub> so they really want to drive that
  412. # [21:04] <@hub> http://www.gnome.org/testimonials/
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  421. # [21:24] <@tbsaunde> hub: you have rs=me to backout the backout for mac a11y
  422. # [21:25] <@hub> tbsaunde: thanks
  423. # [21:25] <@tbsaunde> hub: np
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  428. # [22:06] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
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  430. # [22:46] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  434. # [23:02] <@hub> davidb: http://blogs.gnome.org/gnomg/2012/06/07/help-gnome-reach-its-accessibility-fundraising-goal/ <- here is the details
  435. # [23:03] <@davidb> cool
  436. # [23:03] <@davidb> yeah i knew about the push
  437. # [23:03] <@davidb> (via phone chat with karen)
  438. # [23:03] <@davidb> i am not impressed overall with the gnome board i must say… they don't seem to be an efficient engine
  439. # [23:04] <@davidb> and i don't think karen is to blame
  440. # [23:04] <@hub> did you vote
  441. # [23:04] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-CF0EF6A6.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  442. # [23:04] <@hub> because I know who I didn't vote for
  443. # [23:06] <blez> I succeed to hook Orca
  444. # [23:06] <blez> maybe I'll use that to create my own screenreader
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  450. # Session Close: Fri Jun 08 00:00:00 2012

The end :)