/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-06-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 11 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:27] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP)
  4. # [01:05] <capella> dang ... builds are busted (bug 763212) ... m-c backing out changes etc ... time to let it go till the dust settles
  5. # [01:05] <firewolfbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=763212 blo, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Build fails with "/bin/sh: line 0: fg: no job control" - related to "%pythonpath" ?
  6. # [01:37] <firewolfbot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 761188 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  7. # [01:38] <firewolfbot> ryanvm@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 761188 to FIXED.
  8. # [01:38] <firewolfbot> ryanvm@gmail.com denied in-testsuite on bug 761188.
  9. # [01:38] <firewolfbot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761188 nor, --, mozilla16, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, reuse layout code for accessible boundaries calculation
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  16. # [02:41] <capella> build bug fixed ... what was I hacking last?
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  34. # [08:17] <@MarcoZ> Morning all!
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  46. # [10:59] <@MarcoZ> Won a JS battle! \-O-/
  47. # [11:10] <capella> dang ... thats twice today i was implicated on an inbound issue that wasnt mine :P
  48. # [11:16] <@MarcoZ> capella: Ouch, not nice!
  49. # [11:17] <capella> yah i know - heart attack-city
  50. # [11:17] <capella> but both times it was prior patch in inbound .... right before mine
  51. # [11:18] <capella> marcoz: whats the JS battle you won?
  52. # [11:21] <@MarcoZ> capella: Referencing objects properly.
  53. # [11:22] <@MarcoZ> capella: Esp if an object contains stuff that looks more like an array, but mst be an object due to the data complexity.
  54. # [11:22] <capella> man vs. machine !!!
  55. # [11:22] <capella> oh - hmmmm ... sounds interesting
  56. # [11:55] <@MarcoZ> capella: Looks like the faulty one was just backed out, and it was not you! :)
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  58. # [11:56] <capella> yah was weird .... cause i saw all the orange and had already decided not me ... then ed chimed in and freaked me out
  59. # [11:57] <capella> ryanvm tried to get me earlier in the evening ... dodged him too :P
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  68. # [13:27] <@MarcoZ> capella: How good is your JS? :) Perhaps you can help me with a problem?
  69. # [13:28] <capella> umm .... merely fair ... but i can try
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  71. # [13:59] <@MarcoZ> capella: I'm working on a patch for bug 762851, and for some reason, it fails, although the smaller test case I created works fine. The patch is here: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1660468
  72. # [14:21] <capella> marcoz: thats a lot for me ... I'd start sprinkling alert("")'s around to hack my way through ...
  73. # [14:21] <capella> but thats me
  74. # [14:24] <@MarcoZ> capella: I believe the thing falls over somewhere during a very early stage, since not even the functionality that was there before is working with this patch applied. Hmmmm...
  75. # [14:24] <@MarcoZ> OK, will have to dig further.
  76. # [14:24] <capella> when JS goes out entirely like that, I look for syntax errors
  77. # [14:25] <@MarcoZ> Me, too, but jslint doesn't show me any.
  78. # [14:26] <capella> gotta be something simple ... code looks nice, fwiw
  79. # [14:27] <@MarcoZ> Thanks!
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  82. # [14:27] <@MarcoZ> I'll wait until davidb is around and pester him.
  83. # [14:28] <capella> yah ... he's a regular 9 to 4 type of guy :D
  84. # [14:28] <capella> has a life outside of moco i guess
  85. # [14:30] <@MarcoZ> Yeah he has a family.
  86. # [14:37] * Joins: surkov (surkov@5F83DAE4.67A28CF2.EBE09E3C.IP)
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  88. # [14:39] <tbsaunde> surkov: hi, hve a minute to tell me what you think about how platform objects should be septup with uia, or should I mail you?
  89. # [14:40] <@surkov> tbsaunde: hi, perhaps some of wrap classes will override QueryService
  90. # [14:40] <@surkov> but usually they get all things by requesting pattern interface which is not required to be accessible object
  91. # [14:41] <tbsaunde> surkov: sure, but willl ia2 / msaa eventually share a platform object with uia, or should they stay seperate?
  92. # [14:41] <@surkov> in that means I thought to keep uia separately
  93. # [14:42] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  94. # [14:42] <@surkov> basically rawelmprovider and IAccessible can be on the same object
  95. # [14:42] <tbsaunde> surkov: what about each uia pattern impl? will they each have there own tearoff then?
  96. # [14:42] <@surkov> but nothing requires that
  97. # [14:43] <@surkov> we could but I'm not sure at this point
  98. # [14:43] <tbsaunde> ok
  99. # [14:43] <tbsaunde> surkov: finally, any reason you don't want to cache the uia provider in the wrap?
  100. # [14:44] <@surkov> no real reason, just I went with pure tearoff
  101. # [14:44] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok, just seems it might be nice to not have more refs to accessibles :)
  102. # [14:45] <tbsaunde> on the other hand it mkaes accessibles bigger
  103. # [14:45] * tbsaunde isn't sure how big an AccessibleWrap is on win32
  104. # [14:46] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we always can put tear offs into hierarchy
  105. # [14:46] <@surkov> it should be easy like we do for ia2
  106. # [14:47] <tbsaunde> surkov: not sure what you mean
  107. # [14:48] <tbsaunde> surkov: unless you mean make it not be a tearoff
  108. # [14:49] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if do tear off approach then we can convert it easily to keep-in-one-object appraoch
  109. # [14:49] <tbsaunde> ok, yeah
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  123. # [15:29] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
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  125. # [15:31] <@davidb> hi hi hi!
  126. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Set up to build Fennec with a certain patch and see if you can get something out why it won't work?
  127. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> davidb: It's patch for bug 762851.
  128. # [15:34] <@davidb> yep i can reboot into linux - but not for about 20 mins
  129. # [15:35] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
  130. # [15:35] <@MarcoZ> Great! :)
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  137. # [15:46] * davidb|mtg is now known as davidb
  138. # [15:51] * @davidb has ubuntu booted
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  140. # [15:56] * @davidb builds fennec trunk
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  145. # [16:00] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Great!
  146. # [16:01] * @MarcoZ didn't find anything in logcat for some reason.
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  154. # [16:51] <@davidb> dang it - gotta rebuild
  155. # [16:53] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Ouch, what's wrong?
  156. # [16:54] <@davidb> my bad
  157. # [16:54] <@davidb> i forgot to switch my mozconfig on this box
  158. # [16:54] <@MarcoZ> Oh :)
  159. # [16:57] <@davidb> or rather… i forget to export MOZCONFIG= blah blah
  160. # [17:03] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hard to believe you are going to be here in less than 1 month
  161. # [17:05] <@MarcoZ> And surkov one month after!
  162. # [17:05] <@davidb> indeed
  163. # [17:07] <tbsaunde> davidb: heh
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  165. # [17:13] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I have a blog post at the back of my head which I am really hesitant to write, primarily because it might piss of a lot of people. It has to do with the inefficiency of keyboard usage and most accessibility architectures, esp on Windows, and why I think these are the reasons for the web still losing out against native apps on many counts for non-mouse users.
  166. # [17:14] <@davidb> you haven't been very timid in the past :)
  167. # [17:15] <@davidb> do you point fingers?
  168. # [17:15] <@davidb> sigh… build fail
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  170. # [17:16] <@MarcoZ> No, but this one really might bring a lot of people on the fences when I state that, for blind and many other keyboard ussers, the web is still an inferior platform compared to native apps. :)
  171. # [17:16] <@MarcoZ> For example, if I tweet from my phone or my native Twitter client on the Mac, I'm three to four keystrokes more efficient than if I use some web app as accessible as EasyChirp.
  172. # [17:16] <@davidb> "the truth hurts"
  173. # [17:17] <@davidb> i like truth
  174. # [17:17] <@davidb> if we need to shine a light on it, then lets do that
  175. # [17:18] <@MarcoZ> I'll write up something when my patch is in review and I have some more calm, and will send it to you for feedback if you'd like.
  176. # [17:19] <@davidb> sure
  177. # [17:19] <@davidb> i'm always happy to review blogs
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  181. # [17:36] <@davidb> hub: are you ready for the onslaught in 30 mins?
  182. # [17:36] <@davidb> the lions are coming
  183. # [17:42] <tbsaunde> davidb: ?
  184. # [17:55] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Lions? Interesting 1:1 pracitces! :)
  185. # [18:00] <@hub> davidb: what?
  186. # [18:01] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  187. # [18:05] <@davidb> Euro 2012 :)
  188. # [18:06] <@hub> davidb: they play hockey?
  189. # [18:06] <@davidb> silly
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  191. # [18:08] * tbsaunde still doesn't know what davidb is talking about other than it being related to sports
  192. # [18:09] <@hub> tbsaunde: there is some Euro FIFA tournament going on
  193. # [18:09] <@hub> tbsaunde: the Stanley Cup isn't even done yet
  194. # [18:10] <@davidb> the game played with the foot and a ball… that we call soccer
  195. # [18:10] <tbsaunde> ah
  196. # [18:10] <@hub> because your football is played a lot with the hands
  197. # [18:10] <@davidb> :)
  198. # [18:12] <@MarcoZ> LOL
  199. # [18:12] <@hub> 9 AM isn't that the time for the Apple WWDC keynote?
  200. # [18:12] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Did the build finish, or did you give up after the failure?
  201. # [18:12] <@MarcoZ> hub: 10 AM.
  202. # [18:12] <@davidb> i tried a few things and gave up for now
  203. # [18:12] <@davidb> sorry
  204. # [18:12] * @MarcoZ will wear his Apple fan-boy hat in an hour from now and watch live tickers.
  205. # [18:13] <@davidb> i figured eeejay would be up soon
  206. # [18:13] <@hub> MarcoZ: thanks.
  207. # [18:13] <@hub> MarcoZ: proof that I no longer care
  208. # [18:13] <@davidb> wwdc… *yawn*
  209. # [18:13] <@hub> after drinking the kool-aid for 2 years
  210. # [18:13] <@hub> davidb: like GoogleIO
  211. # [18:13] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Yeah, will be curious to see if eeejay finds what's wrong with the patch.
  212. # [18:13] <@MarcoZ> Heh
  213. # [18:14] <@hub> today with have Gary visiting in Vancouver
  214. # [18:15] <@davidb> hub: nice
  215. # [18:15] <@davidb> hub: regarding hands… nobody can claim a worse handball against than England
  216. # [18:15] <@davidb> and "the hand of god"
  217. # [18:16] <@hub> davidb: careful. they head butt too.
  218. # [18:17] <@davidb> only rooney
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  221. # [18:18] <eeejay> MarcoZ, hi. forgot to sign into irc
  222. # [18:18] <eeejay> already looking at your patch
  223. # [18:21] <eeejay> MarcoZ, you don't import XPCOMUtils
  224. # [18:21] <eeejay> adb logcat is your friend
  225. # [18:23] <@davidb> yeah i was gonna adb logcat except form build fail
  226. # [18:23] <@davidb> form/for my
  227. # [18:24] <eeejay> i did it via a desktop build
  228. # [18:24] <eeejay> davidb, btw, the accessfu tester extension works on mac
  229. # [18:25] <@davidb> that is exciting
  230. # [18:25] <eeejay> davidb, just need to do it in nightly, i don't know if you were doing that earlier
  231. # [18:28] <eeejay> MarcoZ, your patch works nicely!
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  233. # [18:32] <@davidb> eeejay: i was trying to build trunk
  234. # [18:32] <eeejay> davidb, hum
  235. # [18:32] <@davidb> fennec
  236. # [18:35] <@davidb> man… france is looking good
  237. # [18:41] <@davidb> dodeedooo
  238. # [18:42] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: SHIT! :) Thanks for spotting that! I had that line in there once, then removed it for a reason that escapes me now.
  239. # [18:42] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Feel free to r+ and land with that change, then!
  240. # [18:45] <eeejay> MarcoZ, I have another round of feedback
  241. # [18:46] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Cool! So just also define the cu const and do the import after the EXPORTED_SYMBOLS line, right?
  242. # [18:46] <eeejay> MarcoZ, yep
  243. # [18:46] <eeejay> MarcoZ, but i have a bunch of other nits and questions
  244. # [18:48] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: OK! Put them in the bug I'd say, I'll deal with them.
  245. # [18:50] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: I'm glad you like the patch in principle and that it's working! :)
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  258. # [20:43] <@davidb> MarcoZ: re android i think my mozconfig was out of date
  259. # [20:47] <@hub> a11y is being talked about in the WWDC keynote
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  261. # [20:51] <@davidb> hub: ya?
  262. # [21:00] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  263. # [21:04] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Hub: One of the first success stories of the WWDC keynote, shown in a video, was a blind guy navigating around a forest using the Ariadne GPS iPhone software. Later, it was talked about children with autism and how iOS 6 will help them more, etc.
  264. # [21:04] <@MarcoZ> Accessibility was indeed quite present in this WWDC keynote!
  265. # [21:09] * Joins: jhk (jiggy@8E6C34C1.A3F9767A.1C37C358.IP)
  266. # [21:09] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Thanks for the feedback! Given the choice, I think I'll move the keyMap back into the virtualCursorController and rename the QuickNavigation object to TraversalRules, and shorten the inner objects to say something like |simple|, |anchor| etc. What do you think?
  267. # [21:10] <eeejay> MarcoZ, perfect. Move TraversalRules back into the VirtualCursorController module as well
  268. # [21:10] <eeejay> MarcoZ, but as an independant object
  269. # [21:11] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: OK, so no extra file, then. What about gestures, should they be handled in VirtualCursorController as well? If yes, then that's no problem. If you want to have an extra module for gestures, this might get more complicated, unless you'd want to import the whole VirtualCursorController jsm.
  270. # [21:12] <@MarcoZ> Just thinking into the future.
  271. # [21:12] <eeejay> MarcoZ, good point.
  272. # [21:13] <eeejay> MarcoZ, gestures would utilize VirtualCursorController for sure
  273. # [21:13] <@MarcoZ> Anyway, this is so much good feedback that I'll be dealing with it tomorrow, it's past 9 PM here.
  274. # [21:13] <eeejay> MarcoZ, will they be a seperate object or extend it, we will see
  275. # [21:14] <eeejay> MarcoZ, thanks for your patience, this is going to be a killer feature\
  276. # [21:14] <eeejay> puts us in the big league :)
  277. # [21:14] <@MarcoZ> OK, I'll put all into the VirtualCursorController for now, and put the rules as a separate object that doesn't get exported as symbol for now.
  278. # [21:14] <@MarcoZ> I'm excited as hell about this, too!
  279. # [21:14] <eeejay> MarcoZ, right. we might export it in the future
  280. # [21:14] <@MarcoZ> OK guys, see you tomorrow, then!
  281. # [21:15] <eeejay> MarcoZ, night!
  282. # [21:15] * Quits: @MarcoZ (Daily@moz-352FEF2E.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Excited, and good night!)
  283. # [21:29] * @davidb shakes his fist at 3:30pm
  284. # [21:29] <@davidb> 3:20 even
  285. # [21:29] * @davidb is just generally mad at time
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  298. # Session Close: Tue Jun 12 00:00:01 2012

The end :)