/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-06-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jun 12 00:00:02 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  15. # [02:23] <capella> davidb: ? Didn't expect to see you ..
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  21. # [02:49] <@hub> 8 minutes into the WWC keynote, Apple promote a GPS app used by people with disabilities
  22. # [02:49] <@eeejay> nice
  23. # [02:50] <@hub> I'll if I can find a link to the single video
  24. # [02:50] <@hub> eeejay: there is apparently more about a11y later
  25. # [03:04] <@eeejay> hub, don't you wish you stayed?
  26. # [03:07] <@davidb> hi capella
  27. # [03:07] <capella> hey!
  28. # [03:07] <@davidb> i often don't show my presence in the evening but i'm usual up to something :)
  29. # [03:08] <capella> ah ... well, dont hurt yourself :)
  30. # [03:08] <@davidb> heheh
  31. # [03:08] <@davidb> i have this urge to go running in the rain
  32. # [03:09] <@davidb> hi mdcurran
  33. # [03:09] <@hub> eeejay: no.
  34. # [03:09] * Joins: mike5w3c (MikeS@moz-DAFE1A45.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  35. # [03:10] <@davidb> hub, eeejay you know what Jennison would love and i think it would be amazing if we pulled it off… a service/system for telling you if someone you know is nearby.
  36. # [03:10] <@davidb> i know this exists
  37. # [03:10] <@davidb> but if we made it more central to the web it could take off
  38. # [03:10] <@hub> davidb: yes I know
  39. # [03:10] <@davidb> figured you did
  40. # [03:10] <@hub> davidb: it was also discussed at CSUN
  41. # [03:10] <@hub> in one of the talks I attended
  42. # [03:10] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP)
  43. # [03:11] <@davidb> i brought it up with identity and apps
  44. # [03:11] <@davidb> there is some interest
  45. # [03:11] <@hub> GPS + bluetooth / wifi
  46. # [03:11] * @davidb nods
  47. # [03:12] <@davidb> at UofT we had a system based on wifi… for detecting location in a building
  48. # [03:12] <@davidb> it was interesting… ran lots of experiments
  49. # [03:12] <@davidb> turned out 'ranking' signal strength as a signature to a location gave the best accuracy
  50. # [03:13] <@hub> GPS precision isn't great, but is fine for coarse location
  51. # [03:13] <@davidb> sure
  52. # [03:13] <@davidb> also, users could "check in"
  53. # [03:13] <@hub> BT has a small range so it should help for proximity
  54. # [03:13] <@davidb> the hard part is buy-in
  55. # [03:14] <@davidb> hub: which talk?
  56. # [03:14] <@davidb> who?
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  58. # [03:15] <@hub> davidb: I forgot which talk it was
  59. # [03:15] <@davidb> i'll ask the J
  60. # [03:16] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@5C453B31.BEB908B0.79933D60.IP)
  61. # [03:16] <@hub> davidb: I think it was that talk http://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/sessions/index.php/public/presentations/view/632
  62. # [03:16] <@hub> but I'm the one thinking of the technology
  63. # [03:16] <@hub> we could use
  64. # [03:16] <@davidb> ok
  65. # [03:16] <@hub> the talk just mentionned how there was nothing to do it, and that BT helped
  66. # [03:17] <@hub> by putting your name in it
  67. # [03:17] <@davidb> i think mozilla building out a trusted identity system is key
  68. # [03:18] <@hub> maybe we should put that on either a meeting poitn of order, or our work week
  69. # [03:18] <@davidb> maybe all b2g phones could have this :)
  70. # [03:18] <@davidb> hub: it is a good idea
  71. # [03:18] <@hub> yeah
  72. # [03:18] <@hub> and maybe Android with Firefox
  73. # [03:18] <@davidb> hub: mind emailing marco for agenda addition?
  74. # [03:18] <@hub> ok
  75. # [03:18] <@davidb> ta
  76. # [03:19] * Quits: mike5w3c (MikeS@moz-DAFE1A45.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout)
  77. # [03:19] <@davidb> i mean, we all want Jennison stalking us right?
  78. # [03:20] * Joins: mike5w3c (MikeS@moz-DAFE1A45.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  79. # [03:20] <@hub> sure
  80. # [03:20] <@hub> so we can go party !!!
  81. # [03:23] * Quits: mike5w3c (MikeS@moz-DAFE1A45.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout)
  82. # [03:26] <@davidb> lol
  83. # [03:26] <@davidb> if you gotta live, you might as well have fun doing it.
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  86. # [03:30] <@hub> exactly
  87. # [03:39] <@hub> davidb: mountain lion will have "dictation"
  88. # [03:39] <@hub> davidb: could impact us
  89. # [03:40] * @davidb nods
  90. # [03:40] <@davidb> i am picturing a mountain lion with a pad and pencil
  91. # [03:41] <@hub> Safari stole our awesome bar
  92. # [03:41] <@hub> ...
  93. # [03:41] <@hub> and pretend to be faster than FF13
  94. # [03:41] <@hub> and Chrome wahtever
  95. # [03:43] <@hub> and iCloud tabs = Firefox Sync
  96. # [03:43] <@hub> but in Safari
  97. # [03:43] <@hub> *sigh*
  98. # [03:43] <@davidb> it isn't really suprising
  99. # [03:43] <@davidb> it is war
  100. # [03:44] <@davidb> they'll never take… our freedom!
  101. # [03:44] <@davidb> iFreedom
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  104. # [03:56] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  105. # [04:05] <tbsaunde> davidb: oh no don't give me freedom I want apple to keep making decisions for me
  106. # [04:05] <tbsaunde> pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease
  107. # [04:06] <@davidb> heheh
  108. # [04:06] <@davidb> you don't want to iThink for yourself?
  109. # [04:06] <@hub> I did iPoop
  110. # [04:06] <@davidb> ew
  111. # [04:06] <@hub> sorry I had to make that one :-)
  112. # [04:06] <@davidb> hahaha
  113. # [04:06] <@davidb> i have kids… i can take the potty humor
  114. # [04:07] <@hub> iCS is not theirs either
  115. # [04:07] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you using the MBP with linux?
  116. # [04:07] <@davidb> debian i think?
  117. # [04:08] <tbsaunde> davidb: yes, and yes
  118. # [04:09] <@davidb> groovy
  119. # [04:09] <tbsaunde> davidb: why?
  120. # [04:09] <@davidb> tbsaunde: turning full time might come with hardware
  121. # [04:09] * tbsaunde probably won't be buying mac's in the future
  122. # [04:10] <tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, I sort of expected that :)
  123. # [04:10] <@davidb> hehe
  124. # [04:11] <@hub> tbsaunde: thinkpad X I guess
  125. # [04:11] <@hub> :-)
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  127. # [04:11] <tbsaunde> hub: yeah, that's my current thinking
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  131. # [04:40] <@hub> here we go at 97:00 in the keynote: Guided Access
  132. # [04:41] <@hub> it is about locking UI elements to lock the current app
  133. # [04:41] <@hub> for people with learning disabilities
  134. # [04:41] <@hub> amongst other things
  135. # [04:45] <@davidb> that sounds… odd.
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  137. # [04:49] <@hub> davidb: it actually make sense
  138. # [04:49] <@davidb> what does lock mean?
  139. # [04:49] <@davidb> disable?
  140. # [04:49] <@hub> make it inactive
  141. # [04:49] <@hub> yeah
  142. # [04:49] <@davidb> ok
  143. # [04:50] <@davidb> do they hide it as well?
  144. # [04:50] <@hub> I think
  145. # [04:50] <@davidb> i was thinking that mobile apps have nice simpler interfaces
  146. # [04:51] <@davidb> i'd like to be able to set an app tab to mobile
  147. # [04:52] <@hub> *sigh* another hard to rebase patch
  148. # [04:52] <@hub> *sigh*
  149. # [04:52] <@davidb> :(
  150. # [04:53] <@hub> with all that renaming
  151. # [04:53] <@hub> happening
  152. # [04:54] <capella> (sorry)
  153. # [04:55] <tbsaunde> hub: again git makes that so much easier :)
  154. # [04:58] <@hub> is there a git bzexport?
  155. # [04:58] <@davidb> and hockey is finished
  156. # [04:59] <@hub> 6-1?
  157. # [04:59] <@hub> wow
  158. # [04:59] <@davidb> (i didn't watch)
  159. # [05:00] <tbsaunde> hub: yes, git-bz :)
  160. # [05:00] <@hub> neither
  161. # [05:00] <@hub> tbsaunde: ok then
  162. # [05:01] <tbsaunde> hub: note you want jlabbar's version for mozilla which knows how to set r?
  163. # [05:03] <@hub> mmm
  164. # [05:03] <@hub> ok.
  165. # [05:03] <@hub> I'll look into it tomorrow I thinkg
  166. # [05:05] <tbsaunde> hub: fyi https://github.com/jlebar/moz-git-tools
  167. # [05:06] <@hub> tbsaunde: sold!
  168. # [05:07] <@hub> ok, running home now
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  176. # [06:51] <@hub> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=763819
  177. # [06:51] <@hub> since there is no firebot
  178. # [06:51] <@hub> I'll have a look at it tomorrow
  179. # [06:51] <@hub> looks like it is related to the whitelisting
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  183. # [07:08] <capella> firebot dead ... try servers sleeping ... bah! i need my clock cycles
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  203. # [09:47] * @MarcoZ is totally psyched about this quick nav feature he's working on for accessible Fennec.
  204. # [09:55] <capella> yah ... sounds like you've got others happy too!
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  209. # [10:06] <capella> firebot: are you alive?
  210. # [10:06] <@firebot> capella: yes
  211. # [10:06] <capella> woo hoo!
  212. # [10:13] <@firebot> I'm back.. If there's any problems with me - please let Wolf know at firebot-admin[@]psychoticwolf.net or file a bug.. Thanks.
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  215. # [10:49] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 632045 on bug 760880.
  216. # [10:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760880 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, decomtaminate Is Column / Row / Cell Selected() on accessible tables
  217. # [10:54] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 632119 on bug 759817.
  218. # [10:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759817 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Repair an inheritance issue
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  224. # [11:33] <@MarcoZ> capella: Objections to me landing patch for bug 761943 on aurora on your behalf?
  225. # [11:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761943 cri, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, crash in nsXULListitemAccessible::NativeInteractiveState
  226. # [11:33] <capella> marcoz: none at all !
  227. # [11:35] <capella> marcoz: i was following that part where surkov flagged it for aurora and then it got approved, didnt know if there was aanything
  228. # [11:35] <capella> i needed to do or if it was on autopilot
  229. # [11:39] <@MarcoZ> capella: Nope, we just have to land it with an added a=whoever_approved to the commit message.
  230. # [11:40] <capella> land it to mozilla-inbound or mozilla-aurora kinda thing?
  231. # [11:40] <@MarcoZ> capella: Land it to mozilla-aurora.
  232. # [11:40] <@MarcoZ> It's already on inbound. :)
  233. # [11:41] <capella> ah! so there was something .... i could have done this
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  236. # [11:46] <@MarcoZ> capella: You still can if you so wish, I haven't pushed it yet, since I'm trying to figure out the tbpl changes. I can't seem to get the actually unstarred builds to show any more. :)
  237. # [11:47] <@MarcoZ> So if you'd rather go ahead with the push yourself, just let me know and I'll just throw out the effort. :)
  238. # [11:47] <capella> no - please continue ... ill figure that out later on
  239. # [11:49] <capella> i noticed something with unstarred fails sometimes earlier too ... you can still star them with a comment i think
  240. # [11:51] <capella> marcoz: so to push to inbound, i created a clone of mozilla-inbound in addition to my working mozilla-central
  241. # [11:51] <capella> if i want to push to aurora, ill have to clone that repo also wont i ? so i can hg pull -u / synch before the push?
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  243. # [11:58] <@MarcoZ> capella: Yes, you have to clone releases/mozilla-aurora if you want to push to it. And keep it updated whenever you need to land something there.
  244. # [11:58] <@MarcoZ> However, since that is not often the case, you might as well ask me since I'm sheriffing that for the accessibility team.
  245. # [11:58] <capella> right - will set that up for next time
  246. # [11:59] <capella> i mean ... as in depend on you to do it for me
  247. # [11:59] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@714E29CB.13DB46CE.3B93FF6D.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  248. # [12:00] <capella> and save me disk space
  249. # [12:08] <tbsaunde> MarcoZ: you can push to m-a from a tree cloned from m-c ifyou pull from m-a first
  250. # [12:09] <tbsaunde> MarcoZ: in principal what I do is hg pull -u m-a && hg qimport patch && hg qpush && hg qfinish -a && hg push -r tip m-a
  251. # [12:10] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Yeah but that adds all kinds of extra stuff to an m-c cloned repo. Makes me feel uneasy. :)
  252. # [12:12] <tbsaunde> MarcoZ: I've never tried to quantify it but I expect not that much since not much lands there
  253. # [12:12] <tbsaunde> having to use -r tip when you push is a little anoying though tbh
  254. # [12:13] <@MarcoZ> :)
  255. # [12:15] <@firebot> graememcc_firefox@graeme-online.co.uk changed the Status on bug 761891 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  256. # [12:15] <@firebot> graememcc_firefox@graeme-online.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 761891 to FIXED.
  257. # [12:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761891 nor, --, mozilla16, dbolter, RESO FIXED, HTML5 article element should expose xml-roles:article object attribute
  258. # [12:16] <@firebot> graememcc_firefox@graeme-online.co.uk changed the Status on bug 760881 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  259. # [12:16] <@firebot> graememcc_firefox@graeme-online.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 760881 to FIXED.
  260. # [12:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760881 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, decomtaminate Select Row / Column() on accessible tables
  261. # [12:17] <@firebot> graememcc_firefox@graeme-online.co.uk changed the Status on bug 763146 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  262. # [12:17] <@firebot> graememcc_firefox@graeme-online.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 763146 to FIXED.
  263. # [12:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=763146 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, put TextUpdater into a11y namespace
  264. # [12:17] <@firebot> graememcc_firefox@graeme-online.co.uk changed the Status on bug 763148 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  265. # [12:18] <@firebot> graememcc_firefox@graeme-online.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 763148 to FIXED.
  266. # [12:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=763148 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, put Relation into a11y namespace
  267. # [12:24] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com set status-firefox15 to fixed on bug 761943.
  268. # [12:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761943 cri, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, crash in nsXULListitemAccessible::NativeInteractiveState
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  271. # [12:26] <@MarcoZ> capella: And it's in! :)
  272. # [12:26] <capella> woo hoo! B)
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  278. # [12:58] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested review from eitan@monotonous.or g for attachment 632194 on bug 762851.
  279. # [12:58] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 762851 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  280. # [12:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762851 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Introduce single letter quick navigation keys
  281. # [13:00] <@MarcoZ> \-O-/
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  283. # [13:12] <capella> marcoz: is gonna hurt his arm patting himself on the back :P
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  287. # [13:23] <@MarcoZ> capella: :P
  288. # [13:29] <capella> marcoz: looks like your try push has a couple orange
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  298. # [14:13] <@MarcoZ> capella: Looking. Although none of this stuff should actually be running in tests, since it only gets instanciated if Talkback or some other Android accessibility is active.
  299. # [14:14] <capella> looks like all the same error
  300. # [14:15] <capella> so .... not your problem
  301. # [14:17] <capella> TRY server is like 1200 / 299 and my jobs are taking forever
  302. # [14:18] <@MarcoZ> capella: Yeah that's what I am seeing. All the test machines are on "pending", meaning they haven't caught up. The build was successful, and so is manual testing of that try build. :)
  303. # [14:19] <capella> good for you! ive got like one thing left to post then im gonna crash for a few hours
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  308. # [14:32] <capella> firebot: bedtime
  309. # [14:32] <@firebot> capella: Was it not... er, someone, who said: bedtime is Say goodnight Dick!
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  322. # [15:30] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Hi! And thanks for your PM! :)
  323. # [15:30] <@davidb> heyo
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  328. # [15:48] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Did you look at the patch? :) What do you think about the way I generate the keystroke, stripping out the metaKey ?
  329. # [15:51] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I didn't notice that part. What is that about?
  330. # [15:53] <@davidb> ah
  331. # [15:53] <@davidb> i see - tricky
  332. # [15:54] <@MarcoZ> Basically, it allows to pass the original letter through to the web site (except of course when you're in editable areas). So, pressing Meta+h, for example, will pass the h key through, in case the web site does anything with it the user wants to utilize. Kind of a pass-key-through feature.
  333. # [15:54] <@davidb> got it thanks
  334. # [15:54] <@MarcoZ> davidb: And for the original key to be passed, we of course need to strip the pass-through modifier. :) It's an idea eeejay had in his last feedback comment, and I implemented it. :)
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  336. # [15:56] <@davidb> does it break anything? do web apps sometimes listen to meta key combos?
  337. # [15:57] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I've *never* seen one on the desktop, and here, we're talking about mobile. I find it very unlikely. I've never seen a web site require the user to press the WindowsKey+someOtherKey. That's the "meta" key, the Windows key on Windows, the cmd key on Mac.
  338. # [15:58] <@davidb> good
  339. # [15:58] <@davidb> nice trick then :)
  340. # [15:58] <@MarcoZ> For mobile, we could also have chosen the alt key, since we don't have a menu bar to open there, but meta is, I think, the least one to conflict with anything.
  341. # [16:00] <@davidb> yeah plus we want to be able to use this on desktop
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  344. # [16:00] <icaaq> Do you know of any AT that uses the lang attribute?
  345. # [16:01] <@davidb> unsure
  346. # [16:03] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: JaWS does, and NVDA does with eSpeak, too.
  347. # [16:03] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: iOS does as well.
  348. # [16:03] <@MarcoZ> We could do that in Android I'm sure... *g*
  349. # [16:04] <icaaq> MarcoZ: Thanks!
  350. # [16:04] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP)
  351. # [16:04] * @MarcoZ 's brain is ticking again...With possibilities to support the lang attribute.
  352. # [16:04] <@davidb> MarcoZ: not surprised about those 3
  353. # [16:06] <@davidb> MarcoZ: Alon's port to js is speak… i'm thinking b2g
  354. # [16:07] <icaaq> MarcoZ: iOS, really? /me testing
  355. # [16:10] <@MarcoZ> davidb: We're thinking along the same lines. But even in Android with Talkback on, we should be able to get a list of voices for a given language, and use the first (which is probably also the only) to speak text in that language. What we'nd need to do is look in the element or the ancestry for the lang attribute, and things become a bit trickier when textruns with embedded spans in different languages are being used.
  356. # [16:11] <@MarcoZ> But I think our text attributes are pretty smart already and provide us with the correct info IIRC.
  357. # [16:11] <@davidb> sounds good to me
  358. # [16:11] <@MarcoZ> (the ones in our nsIAccessibile* interfaces, that is.
  359. # [16:14] <icaaq> is it the same with hreflang?
  360. # [16:15] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Never heard about that one...
  361. # [16:15] <@MarcoZ> besides lang I only know xml:lang from the XHTML days.
  362. # [16:20] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Anything else to add to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Meetings/2012-06-13
  363. # [16:24] <icaaq> MarcoZ: From the spec: The http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/links.html#adef-hreflang attribute provides user agents with information about the language of a resource at the end of a link, just as the http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/dirlang.html#adef-lang attribute provides information about the language of an element's content or attribute values.
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  365. # [16:28] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Are you sure this is a human language, not rather a language like "HTML", "XHTML" or the like?
  366. # [16:28] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: FWIW, I've *never* seen it used anywhere.
  367. # [16:29] <icaaq> MarcoZ: yes i'm sure :) The hreflang attribute on http://developers.whatwg.org/text-level-semantics.html#the-a-element and http://developers.whatwg.org/the-map-element.html#the-area-element elements that create http://developers.whatwg.org/links.html#hyperlink, if present, gives the language of the linked resource. It is purely advisory. The value must be a valid BCP 47 language tag.
  368. # [16:31] <icaaq> I've used it on the Stockholm Municipality site, www.stockholm.se
  369. # [16:32] <icaaq> the link "language" has that attribute :)
  370. # [16:33] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Again, I have not seen it used anywhere, and I know we don't support it when calculating the language of a text run for accessibility.
  371. # [16:34] <icaaq> MarcoZ: Ok, Thanks again.
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  373. # [16:37] <icaaq> MarcoZ: and sorry if I spam my messages with long links.
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  375. # [16:45] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: No worries! :)
  376. # [17:00] * @MarcoZ starts to hold his breath. The west coast is slowly waking up....
  377. # [17:00] <icaaq> hmm, this makes me shiver, taken from the webpagemaker site https://webpagemaker-dev.allizom.org/en-US/editor
  378. # [17:00] <icaaq> <div id="publish-button" class="nav-button enabled">
  379. # [17:00] <icaaq> Publish
  380. # [17:00] <icaaq> <span id="publish-pulldown">&nbsp;</span>
  381. # [17:00] <icaaq> </div>
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  384. # [17:32] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah, spec makes me less nervous, but i still don't know what's going on in that bug.
  385. # [17:33] <tbsaunde> davidb: I haven't thought about it at all
  386. # [17:33] <tbsaunde> davidb: is bug 763935 a security bug?
  387. # [17:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=763935 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Error: Image corrupt or truncated
  388. # [17:34] <tbsaunde> oh, guess not ;)
  389. # [17:34] <tbsaunde> just wondered why I didn't see anything else about it
  390. # [17:34] <@davidb> odd regression range
  391. # [17:35] <tbsaunde> davidb: it doesn't seem that hard to debug though, just cause state() to be called and walk through with a debugger
  392. # [17:35] <@davidb> right
  393. # [17:35] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: That bug about the image truncation doesn't sound like one of ours at all. :)
  394. # [17:35] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 760354 from --- to mozilla16.
  395. # [17:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=760354 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, ASSI, implement IsInDocument as accessible flag
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  399. # [17:52] <@davidb> heh
  400. # [17:53] <@davidb> trying to set breakpoints and forgetting to leave off "ns"
  401. # [17:53] <@davidb> why is that first backtrace always so slow
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  403. # [17:56] <@hub> don't know if you saw that one: http://digitalunion.osu.edu/2012/06/08/android-still-not-very-accessible/
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  408. # [18:09] <@MarcoZ> hub: This echoes what I'm finding. Inconsistent, esp on the tablet it's still very shaky, and I never know if Talkback will actually talk to me when I next wake it up. The Galaxy Nexus is a bit better, but esp the requirement to tap exactly where the item is has been frustrating. For example, I was not able to log into my wifi without help from my girlfriend because of the inaccessibility of the standard keyboard.
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  411. # [18:13] <@hub> MarcoZ: notice that they give you credit for Accessibility in Firefox :-)
  412. # [18:13] <@hub> MarcoZ: the fact that the OEM can replace the keyboard with one that is not accessible is a huge pile of fail
  413. # [18:19] <@MarcoZ> hub: Well, not only the OEM, even Google's stock Android shipped on its reference model, the Galaxy Nexus, is inaccessible. You *always* have to install the Eyes-Free keyboard from the market, regardless of the device. Even the CM9 distribution requires you to do that.
  414. # [18:19] <@hub> MarcoZ: doh. that's really bad
  415. # [18:19] <@MarcoZ> Hub: Oh and I did notice that and think I should set the record straight. :)
  416. # [18:27] <@MarcoZ> Commented. It's awaiting moderation.
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  429. # [19:00] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, howdy
  430. # [19:05] <@hub> ok, going to the office
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  432. # [19:09] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Hi!
  433. # [19:09] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, hey reviewing now
  434. # [19:09] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, does your phone have a meta key?
  435. # [19:09] * @MarcoZ holds his breath.
  436. # [19:09] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Not sure.
  437. # [19:10] <@MarcoZ> But there were key combinations that simply didn't do anything, so it's either that or I have a ctrl or alt key.
  438. # [19:10] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: I adapted the code for the generation of the key event from B2G's shell.js file.
  439. # [19:11] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, have you tested it?
  440. # [19:11] <@MarcoZ> Yes.
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  444. # [19:13] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, with a bluetooth keyboard? how?
  445. # [19:14] <@MarcoZ> I tested it on the HTC with the physical keyboard.
  446. # [19:14] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, the passthrough feature too?
  447. # [19:14] <@MarcoZ> I *think* so. I didn't have any sighted assistance to tell me whether one of the keys is actually a meta key.
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  449. # [19:15] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, gotcha. r=me without the passthrough key feature. i think it deserves a separate patch. and this patch is awesome enough that it should not be blocked by it
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  451. # [19:16] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: OK! Should I just add the meta key to the other if statement for now so that we simply fall through if it is used?
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  453. # [19:16] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, yeah, that sounds right
  454. # [19:17] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org granted review for attachment 632194 on bug 762851.
  455. # [19:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762851 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Introduce single letter quick navigation keys
  456. # [19:18] * @MarcoZ beams.
  457. # [19:19] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  458. # [19:20] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  459. # [19:22] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: I *had* the TraversalRules object below the VirtualCursorController at first, and it didn't work.
  460. # [19:22] <@davidb> tbsaunde, capella, what do you think about bug 570785?
  461. # [19:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570785 nor, --, ---, markcapella, ASSI, Add about:memory report for our accessibility cache
  462. # [19:22] <@davidb> you've both tinkered with it, but it would be great for someone to drive it home
  463. # [19:23] <@MarcoZ> It appears to have to be above the other one, or the referencing doesn't work. I had to move it up, no other changes, and it started working.
  464. # [19:24] <@davidb> MarcoZ: agenda looks fine - sorry for late reply
  465. # [19:25] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  466. # [19:26] <@MarcoZ> davidb: OK!
  467. # [19:26] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  468. # [19:31] * Joins: hub (hub@A5087023.2354C43D.D8E68FF6.IP)
  469. # [19:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  470. # [19:35] <@MarcoZ> WHAT! THE! FUCK! I just had MozillaBluild bring up the default editor for the first time. I wanted to do an edit of a commit message from hg. And this thing threw me int BLOODY Emacs! I don't believe this!
  471. # [19:35] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, ok. no worries, you could land it without moving it
  472. # [19:35] <@MarcoZ> Only VIM could've been worse!
  473. # [19:36] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, you are obviously not an emacspeak user :)
  474. # [19:36] <@MarcoZ> eeejay: Yeah. I'm surprised you suggesting I move it down to the end of the file. I believe I read somewhere that things have to be defined before they can be used in JS. And "before" being literally, above first usage.
  475. # [19:37] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, oooh
  476. # [19:37] <@MarcoZ> I *never* got my head around this editor, or VIM. They are just so over the top of my head usability-wise that I decided I *don't* want any part of these.
  477. # [19:37] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, it is a parse time. so typically it would not be a problem, but because of the keymap definition it is
  478. # [19:38] <@MarcoZ> Yeah, so it is actually correct to leave it at the top. Going to land in a few minutes.
  479. # [19:38] <@eeejay> MarcoZ, awesome
  480. # [19:42] <@hub> emacs is usable
  481. # [19:42] <capella> davidb: there's too much there I'm having to learn as I go, to be able to come up with anything more useful quickly ...
  482. # [19:42] <capella> I'ts interesting, but tinkering is the right word to describe my attentions so far. You saw I've been cranking out rote changes like
  483. # [19:42] <capella> de-ns-ify and de-xp-com lately, easily handled and turned over fast. If you'd like me to stay with this one, I'd need a resource with
  484. # [19:42] <@hub> it is like a giant terminal
  485. # [19:42] <@hub> :-)
  486. # [19:42] <capella> lots of patience and time to pester with questions. If you want to move this faster, it'd most likely be better to just let that person do it?
  487. # [19:43] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 762851 from --- to mozilla16.
  488. # [19:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762851 nor, --, mozilla16, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Introduce single letter quick navigation keys
  489. # [19:44] <@MarcoZ> Iiiiiiit iiiiiis iiiiiiiin!!!!!
  490. # [19:45] <@davidb> twss
  491. # [19:46] <@MarcoZ> And now I'm going off for the night. JS doesn't compile, and because of the last try-build I did earlier, I'm confident.
  492. # [19:46] <@davidb> MarcoZ: be happy
  493. # [19:46] <@MarcoZ> s/doesn't compile/doesn't get compiled/
  494. # [19:46] <capella> marcoz: is having trouble containing himself these days :)
  495. # [19:46] <@davidb> i love it
  496. # [19:46] <@MarcoZ> capella: Yeah, I feel enthusiastic, and I'm not shy to show it sometimes.
  497. # [19:47] <capella> happy happy joy joy
  498. # [19:47] <@MarcoZ> G'night all!
  499. # [19:47] * Quits: @MarcoZ (Daily@moz-9AB92CDD.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Happy me!)
  500. # [19:58] * Joins: arky (arky@moz-9CE00FC0.holiday-inn-express.mozilla.hq)
  501. # [20:01] <capella> davidb: reply? thoughts? comments?
  502. # [20:01] <@davidb> capella: where?
  503. # [20:01] <@davidb> oh
  504. # [20:01] <capella> oh ... maybe you missed it
  505. # [20:01] <@davidb> wow i'm behind here. reading.
  506. # [20:01] <capella> laughs
  507. # [20:02] <@davidb> capella: makes sense.
  508. # [20:02] <@davidb> i'll see what tbsaunde says
  509. # [20:04] <capella> ok ... as I said .... if he has the time and patience, or you have someone else to talk to. im happy to help
  510. # [20:05] <capella> gotta bail for now - dentist appt...
  511. # [20:06] <@davidb> ouch
  512. # [20:07] <@davidb> good luck
  513. # [20:07] <@davidb> no dev meeting today
  514. # [20:07] <@davidb> hub, eeejay etc ^
  515. # [20:07] <@eeejay> gtk
  516. # [20:07] <@davidb> Marcia is doing a brown bag on CrashKill in one hour though
  517. # [20:09] <@hub> eeejay: there is a gtk3 port in progress for Firefox. I wonder how this will affect a11y
  518. # [20:09] <@eeejay> hub, yeah i'm cced on the bug
  519. # [20:09] <@eeejay> good q
  520. # [20:25] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com)
  521. # [20:26] <Stevef> davidb: hi any known reason why firefox maps <svg> to IA2 role diagram rather than img role?
  522. # [20:27] <@davidb> Stevef: by request - but don't recall details
  523. # [20:27] <Stevef> davidb: definition does not match "Represents a graphical image used to diagram data. "
  524. # [20:27] <@davidb> i'd agree
  525. # [20:28] <Stevef> davidb: just doing aapi stuff and found that, will file a bug, not a biggy, IE maps to graphic
  526. # [20:28] <@davidb> thanks
  527. # [20:29] <Stevef> is there any documentation anyhwere on how FF maps element names to MSAA role?
  528. # [20:29] * Quits: arky (arky@moz-9CE00FC0.holiday-inn-express.mozilla.hq) (Quit: Leaving)
  529. # [20:29] <Stevef> want to document that and obect attribute stuff
  530. # [20:29] <Stevef> object attribute
  531. # [20:29] <@davidb> we have some older notes.. but we have a dude working on something that should/could automate it nicely
  532. # [20:30] <@davidb> askalski
  533. # [20:30] <@davidb> oh!
  534. # [20:31] <@davidb> nah
  535. # [20:34] <@hub> eeejay: you going to Guadec this year?
  536. # [20:34] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
  537. # [20:35] <Stevef> davidb: ok waht i want to do for now is have a prose explanation of it in the aapi doc
  538. # [20:36] <@eeejay> hub, nope. you?
  539. # [20:37] <@hub> eeejay: nope
  540. # [20:37] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@14FB88CC.A6295926.9D42CF23.IP)
  541. # [20:38] <@eeejay> i don't love going to europe in the summer. (first world problems)
  542. # [20:38] <@eeejay> but i love guadec. so a year off is good
  543. # [20:38] <@hub> me it is just that my schedule is off
  544. # [20:38] <@hub> like I don't even know which airport to fly from
  545. # [20:39] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@14FB88CC.A6295926.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
  546. # [20:39] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@14FB88CC.A6295926.9D42CF23.IP)
  547. # [20:42] <@eeejay> hub, did you move yet?
  548. # [20:42] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@14FB88CC.A6295926.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
  549. # [20:42] <@eeejay> dumb q. when are you moving?
  550. # [20:45] <@davidb> the quick nav stuff is cool
  551. # [20:52] <@davidb> eeejay: first step is selling
  552. # [20:56] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@moz-3CEC3252.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net)
  553. # [20:57] * aaronlev is now known as aaronlev_vermont
  554. # [20:57] * aaronlev_vermont waves
  555. # [21:03] * Joins: shorlander-mobile (shorlander@moz-853043D6.dhcp.insightbb.com)
  556. # [21:04] * Quits: shorlander-mobile (shorlander@moz-853043D6.dhcp.insightbb.com) (Input/output error)
  557. # [21:08] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  558. # [21:15] <@davidb> hi aaronlev_vermont!
  559. # [21:19] <@hub> eeejay: no I didn't. I will move when somebody buys my sh*t
  560. # [21:19] <@eeejay> hehe
  561. # [21:19] <@hub> eeejay: and the market is getting bad right now
  562. # [21:19] <@hub> :-/
  563. # [21:19] <@eeejay> sorry!
  564. # [21:20] <@eeejay> hub, i am considering buying with my housemates, but vancouver is a bit too far
  565. # [21:20] <@hub> eeejay: also it is too small for housemates
  566. # [21:20] <@eeejay> i bet
  567. # [21:21] <@davidb> eeejay: so b2g runs the same subset of mochitests as fennec… i think we need to make sure fennec runs our a11y tests… does it?
  568. # [21:22] <@eeejay> davidb, no idea!
  569. # [21:22] <@davidb> harumph
  570. # [21:22] * @davidb looks at tbpl
  571. # [21:22] <@davidb> i don't see any oth
  572. # [21:23] * @davidb gets ready to file a bug
  573. # [21:23] <@davidb> although
  574. # [21:24] <@davidb> Eff
  575. # [21:24] <@davidb> i'm missing the crashkill brownbag
  576. # [21:32] <@hub> I cna't build b2g anymore
  577. # [21:39] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  578. # [21:40] <@davidb> eeejay: bug 764105
  579. # [21:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764105 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add mochitest-a11y test suite to Android tests
  580. # [21:41] <@eeejay> davidb, thanks!
  581. # [21:41] <@davidb> np
  582. # [21:48] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com)
  583. # [21:51] * Joins: clown (clown@moz-FCF97CD1.dsl.bell.ca)
  584. # [21:55] * Joins: arky (arky@moz-7B0110AD.mv.mozilla.com)
  585. # [22:01] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  586. # [22:03] * Joins: askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl)
  587. # [22:03] * ChanServ sets mode: +o askalski
  588. # [22:05] <@askalski> hi everyone!
  589. # [22:09] <@davidb> heyo
  590. # [22:09] <@davidb> askalski: exams?
  591. # [22:11] <@askalski> davidb, maximum score
  592. # [22:11] <@askalski> davidb, 20 minutes
  593. # [22:11] <@askalski> davidb, Poland plays agains Russia now, I can't watch, too much emotions
  594. # [22:11] <@askalski> davidb, I'll hack some python then
  595. # [22:12] <@davidb> heh
  596. # [22:12] <@davidb> congrats on exam
  597. # [22:13] <@firebot> New Firefox - Disability Access bug 764118 filed by faulkner.steve@gmail.com.
  598. # [22:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764118 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, svg element role is diagram
  599. # [22:14] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 764119 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  600. # [22:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764119 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Add preference for explore by touch
  601. # [22:15] <Stevef> davidb: bug filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764118
  602. # [22:15] <@davidb> ta
  603. # [22:16] <Stevef> davidb: sorry saw it alrady appeared auto like :-)
  604. # [22:16] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 632374 on bug 764119.
  605. # [22:22] * Quits: arky (arky@moz-7B0110AD.mv.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
  606. # [22:24] * Joins: arky (arky@moz-7B0110AD.mv.mozilla.com)
  607. # [22:43] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 632388 on bug 758799.
  608. # [22:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758799 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] remove mIsExpired from mozAccessible
  609. # [22:43] <@hub> oh firebot, I missed you
  610. # [22:47] <@davidb> eeejay: when do you need review by?
  611. # [22:48] <@davidb> i'll be online later
  612. # [22:48] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  613. # [22:48] <@askalski> Poland vs. Russia - 1:1
  614. # [22:48] <@askalski> the peaceful solution
  615. # [22:49] <@askalski> now let's hope they don't try to settle this other way
  616. # [22:49] * Joins: kolombiken (Adium@moz-72AAF78F.bredband.comhem.se)
  617. # [22:51] <@hub> askalski: at least in hockey we do overtime and eventually shoot outs :-)
  618. # [22:52] <@askalski> hub, that would be totally unsafe here. whoever would won, the battle would start
  619. # [22:52] <@askalski> hub, our police was professional today, they separated the groups well so far
  620. # [22:53] <@askalski> hub, in general, the Euro 2012 is going surprisingly well, I feel a bit dumb being so pessimistic about it
  621. # [22:54] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  622. # [22:54] <@askalski> hub, now, 17th we play against Czech Republic. They were supper effective against Greece today
  623. # [22:55] * Quits: aaronlev_vermont (chatzilla@moz-3CEC3252.ngn.east.myfairpoint.net) (Ping timeout)
  624. # [23:03] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@moz-7F2FF3EB.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  625. # [23:11] <@askalski> firebot, ping
  626. # [23:11] <@firebot> askalski: pong
  627. # [23:16] * Quits: arky (arky@moz-7B0110AD.mv.mozilla.com) (Client exited)
  628. # [23:23] <Stevef> davidb: webkits implementation of <header> is nice if in <article> or <section> role=group otherwise role=banner https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78992
  629. # [23:27] <Stevef> davidb: same goes for <footer> if in <article> or <section> role=group otherwise role=contentinfo
  630. # [23:43] <@firebot> nicolas@probablement.net changed the Status on bug 763272 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
  631. # [23:43] <@firebot> nicolas@probablement.net set the Resolution field on bug 763272 to INVALID.
  632. # [23:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=763272 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INVALID, Right Control Key doesn't work in shortcuts
  633. # [23:46] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-75218163.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  634. # [23:49] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-75218163.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  635. # [23:53] <@firebot> scoobidiver@netcourrier.com set status-firefox15 to affected on bug 763162.
  636. # [23:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=763162 cri, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, crash in nsXULMenuitemAccessible::NativeInteractiveState @ nsMenuFrame::IsOnMenuBar
  637. # [23:53] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-75218163.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  638. # [23:55] <capella> hmmm.... whats that mean?
  639. # Session Close: Wed Jun 13 00:00:00 2012

The end :)