/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-06-26 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jun 26 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  7. # [00:18] <capella> and theres my original problem .... staring in the face
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  10. # [00:20] <capella> oh goody - now a new one
  11. # [00:22] <capella> theres another little one...
  12. # [00:23] <capella> firebot: mark_capella
  13. # [00:23] <@firebot> capella: Mark_Capella is working hard for very little money
  14. # [00:54] <@eeejay> firebot, capella
  15. # [00:54] <@firebot> eeejay: capella is the programmer formerly known as Mark_Capella
  16. # [00:54] <@eeejay> coool
  17. # [00:54] <@eeejay> firebot, eeejay
  18. # [00:54] <@firebot> eeejay: you are a hacker currently working on mobile TTS interaction
  19. # [00:54] <capella> :P
  20. # [00:54] <@eeejay> not rly
  21. # [00:56] <capella> Ok ... we've got a clean compile on the UIA code
  22. # [00:56] <capella> (and the crowd goes wild !!)
  23. # [00:57] <capella> tbsaunde: ---^
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  25. # [00:58] <@tbsaunde> capella: yeah, I just got back froom being away a while
  26. # [00:58] <capella> is fine ... worked my way through the madness
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  28. # [00:59] <capella> where do you want me to post the new patch?
  29. # [00:59] <@tbsaunde> capella: ok, cool, thx
  30. # [01:00] <@tbsaunde> capella: mail me / throw it in the bug / pastebin it, whatevers easy
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  34. # [01:02] <capella> ok, not sure which bugzilla it is so:
  35. # [01:02] <capella> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1678424
  36. # [01:06] <capella> can you cc: me on the bug so I can watch later progress?
  37. # [01:06] <capella> also, mention I chaanged a few lines of code in uiaRawElmProvider::GetIAccessiblePair()
  38. # [01:06] <capella> to make it compile ... double check his intent
  39. # [01:07] <capella> there was an extra close } and it was returning a non-existent var
  40. # [01:10] <@tbsaunde> capella: that's probably stuff I changed then
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  42. # [01:12] <capella> ok ... it was fun :D
  43. # [01:13] <@tbsaunde> capella: thx
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  48. # [01:45] <capella> takes 5 - back whenever
  49. # [01:49] <@tbsaunde> capella: I'm just going to review the final patch, then I'll probably make khuey look at all this Makefile goo and land it :)
  50. # [01:50] <capella> nice!
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  53. # [01:59] <capella> wait .... makefile goo? the VPATH thing?
  54. # [02:00] <@tbsaunde> capella: yeah, vpath, the new static lib etc
  55. # [02:01] <capella> oh ... k ... not something i changed
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  67. # [03:00] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 768296 filed by dbolter@mozilla.com.
  68. # [03:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768296 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Don't bail on global aria attribute processing because of role="presentation"
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  71. # [03:03] <@tbsaunde> davidb: man, that spec languge is confusing
  72. # [03:04] <@davidb> indeed
  73. # [03:05] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I take it what it is supposed to mean is that UAs shouldn't do anything internally with the aria stuff, but should just expose it to platform apis
  74. # [03:06] <@davidb> not precisely
  75. # [03:06] <hub_> davidb: there was a question for you in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718625#c13
  76. # [03:06] <@firebot> Bug 718625 nor, P2, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] VoiceOver says "text" after each chunk of text it reads inside paragraphs, does not do that in
  77. # [03:06] <@davidb> hub_: heh, when it rains it pours.
  78. # [03:06] <hub_> davidb: I live in Raincouver. remember?
  79. # [03:06] <hub_> :-)
  80. # [03:06] <@davidb> heh
  81. # [03:07] <@davidb> ok so this is about you and tbsaunde trying to reach agreement on some tradeoffs?
  82. # [03:07] <@tbsaunde> davidb: any chance you want to look at the way I fixed the nits on the IAccessibleEX patch?
  83. # [03:07] <@davidb> tbsaunde: dunno - should i?
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  85. # [03:07] <@davidb> I'm working on a thing ATM
  86. # [03:08] <@tbsaunde> davidb: probably no need esp since we'll be dealing with that code a lot in the near future
  87. # [03:08] <hub_> I think it is more about tbsaunde thinking of some side effect and believing you know more about it
  88. # [03:08] <hub_> :-)
  89. # [03:10] <@davidb> ok my first thought is why are we having to do this in the mac layer?
  90. # [03:10] <@davidb> can you give me the coles notes on this bug?
  91. # [03:11] <hub_> davidb: basically AXHeader expect to have in AXTitle whatever the header is made off to read it
  92. # [03:11] <@davidb> hub_: does Ax have a get title call?
  93. # [03:11] <@tbsaunde> davidb: hub_ so my impression here is that mac wants the full text without EOCs
  94. # [03:11] <@davidb> tbsaunde: EOCs?
  95. # [03:12] <@davidb> oh
  96. # [03:12] <@tbsaunde> davidb: embed objects, when the text is in the kids
  97. # [03:12] <@davidb> right
  98. # [03:12] <@davidb> the magic char
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  100. # [03:13] <hub_> <h1>This is a <a href="#foo">link</a> to nowhere</h1>
  101. # [03:13] <hub_> this should read "This is a link to nowhere"
  102. # [03:13] <@davidb> 'flattened' i think we call it
  103. # [03:13] <hub_> and that should be the value of AXTitle
  104. # [03:13] <hub_> davidb: flattened if you prefer :-)
  105. # [03:13] * @davidb shrugs
  106. # [03:14] <@davidb> don't we have a call for that...
  107. # [03:14] <@davidb> i guess not
  108. # [03:14] <hub_> I use GetTextContent()
  109. # [03:15] <@davidb> hub_: i see
  110. # [03:15] <@davidb> ok i think i'm caught up
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  113. # [03:16] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, I'm pretty sure we don't though adding one may be reasonable?
  114. # [03:16] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i see what you are saying… i wonder if worrying about it for headings with anon content is something we can do later
  115. # [03:16] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yes
  116. # [03:16] <@davidb> my proposal would be:
  117. # [03:16] <@davidb> this patch is an improvement, so perhaps reasonable to r+...
  118. # [03:17] <@davidb> file a follow up for discussion on internal API for flattened text
  119. # [03:17] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well, what about the issue where its not neccessarily in sync with layout?
  120. # [03:17] <@davidb> ah
  121. # [03:17] <@davidb> you mean our a11y text cache?
  122. # [03:17] <@tbsaunde> davidb: but tbh what I really object to there is caching the downcasted pointer
  123. # [03:18] <@davidb> mGeckoTextLeafAccessible ?
  124. # [03:18] <hub_> tbsaunde: that has been addressed in my current patch
  125. # [03:18] <@davidb> ok good
  126. # [03:18] <hub_> tbsaunde: I was waiting for that last bit to resubmit it
  127. # [03:18] <hub_> (the bit about content)
  128. # [03:19] <@tbsaunde> hub_: sure, I understand
  129. # [03:19] <@davidb> tbsaunde: the follow up would address the sync issue
  130. # [03:19] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ugh :/
  131. # [03:19] <@davidb> if hub files the follow up now… and // XXX bug #### that helps
  132. # [03:19] <hub_> ok, I will
  133. # [03:19] <@davidb> well hang on
  134. # [03:19] <@tbsaunde> davidb: is it really that bad to just crawl the tree?
  135. # [03:20] <@tbsaunde> that's what we'll probably want ot do internally first anyway
  136. # [03:20] <@davidb> tbsaunde: which tree would he crawl?
  137. # [03:20] <@davidb> i just want to be 100% sure i understand
  138. # [03:20] <@tbsaunde> a11y one
  139. # [03:20] <@davidb> ok
  140. # [03:20] * @davidb thinks...
  141. # [03:20] <@tbsaunde> so, basically same thing screen readers do
  142. # [03:21] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 768298 filed by hub@mozilla.com.
  143. # [03:21] * @davidb nods
  144. # [03:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768298 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Need a "Flatten" API to get the flattened text content for an element.
  145. # [03:21] <hub_> here we go
  146. # [03:22] <@davidb> what does GetName give us?
  147. # [03:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so, do you have an objection to just writing that now?
  148. # [03:23] <@davidb> i'm not sure yet
  149. # [03:23] <@davidb> it concerns me a little
  150. # [03:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: its EFromSubtreeIfRec, so presumably won't look at the subtree if its called on it
  151. # [03:24] <hub_> I'm sure I tried GetName() for that
  152. # [03:25] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 768299 filed by dbolter@mozilla.com.
  153. # [03:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768299 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Presentational role on an image with an another element controlling it by using aria-controls
  154. # [03:25] <@davidb> can we force it?
  155. # [03:25] <@davidb> i would rather the smarts/loops be in core, than in the wrapper.
  156. # [03:26] <@davidb> as in reuse core power
  157. # [03:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: how would we "force it??
  158. # [03:26] <@davidb> i haven't thought that far :)
  159. # [03:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'll agree that's a little gross, but not without president
  160. # [03:26] <@davidb> hmm
  161. # [03:27] <@tbsaunde> and if its fairly self contained moving it to HyperTextAccessible shouldn't be a big deal
  162. # [03:29] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what is the ideal rule for GetName with headings?
  163. # [03:30] <@tbsaunde> that said implementing it does seem complex enough I guess I'll take the GetTextontent() thing with a big // XXX and if hub is willing to work on writing something better
  164. # [03:31] <@davidb> yeah, cool.
  165. # [03:31] <@davidb> wfm
  166. # [03:32] <@davidb> i'll note it in the bug.
  167. # [03:32] <@tbsaunde> on the other hand I'm not sure how much urgency there is to get *something* landed, so fixing it the first time is tempting
  168. # [03:32] <@davidb> that also wfm… i really don't mind
  169. # [03:33] <@davidb> but i know hub's queue is getting paintul
  170. # [03:33] <@davidb> painful
  171. # [03:33] <@davidb> so that cost is on my mind
  172. # [03:34] <@hub> I added the comment in my current patch
  173. # [03:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oh?
  174. # [03:35] <@hub> I still need a final review for bug 750612
  175. # [03:35] <@davidb> rebasing patch queues can eat time
  176. # [03:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750612 maj, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Too much is exposed to VoiceOver that is actually not currently visible/interactable
  177. # [03:35] <@hub> I have had luck lately as I had more pain with general tree breakage
  178. # [03:36] * @davidb comments
  179. # [03:36] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok, git almost always does all of it for me
  180. # [03:36] <@davidb> so jealous
  181. # [03:38] <@davidb> tbsaunde: this WFM because surkov will want to weigh in on the direction here I think.
  182. # [03:38] <@tbsaunde> davidb: you could switch ;)
  183. # [03:38] <@davidb> yeah
  184. # [03:38] <@tbsaunde> davidb: of what doing flattened stuff?
  185. # [03:38] <hub_> I plan on switching
  186. # [03:39] <hub_> to git
  187. # [03:39] <@davidb> ok i have to go back to writing words
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  192. # [03:51] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yes
  193. # [03:51] <@davidb> (sorry i missed that q)
  194. # [03:57] <@tbsaunde> davidb: np
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  196. # [04:06] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 636572 on bug 718625.
  197. # [04:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718625 nor, P2, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] VoiceOver says "text" after each chunk of text it reads inside paragraphs, does not do that in
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  207. # [06:31] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 768319 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  208. # [06:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768319 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in XUL@0xe91e0f
  209. # [06:40] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  210. # [06:44] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I don't expect you to do it tonight, but can you grab the crash dump for ^? the stack is worthless
  211. # [06:44] <@davidb> yeah ping me tomorrow :)
  212. # [06:45] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok
  213. # [06:45] <@tbsaunde> MarcoZ: anyway to get symbols for system libs on osx?
  214. # [07:17] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 768299 from NEW to UNCONFIRMED.
  215. # [07:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768299 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Presentational role on an image with an another element controlling it by using aria-controls
  216. # [07:18] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 768296 from NEW to UNCONFIRMED.
  217. # [07:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768296 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Don't bail on global aria attribute processing because of role="presentation"
  218. # [07:32] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@moz-68BF56A6.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: davidb)
  219. # [07:56] <@hub> tbsaunde: if it is for bug 768319, I suspect the CoreFoundation stack trace is in the event loop.
  220. # [07:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768319 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in XUL@0xe91e0f
  221. # [07:57] <@hub> but having the XUL symbols would help
  222. # [08:34] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Hub is a better person to ask about the symbols. I thought our XUL stuff *had* symbols. I am also confused, but wanted to file it to keep the reports linked.
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  228. # [09:31] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: Oh, wait, this is a try-server build, it has symbols somewhere, but socorrow does not automatically link them together.
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  234. # [10:48] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 767264 from --- to mozilla16.
  235. # [10:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767264 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, ASSI, remove uses of do_QueryObject() in CAccessibleHyperlink
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  238. # [11:08] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 766779 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  239. # [11:08] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 766779 to FIXED.
  240. # [11:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=766779 nor, --, mozilla16, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Introduce Android explore by touch
  241. # [11:08] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 766780 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  242. # [11:08] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 766780 to FIXED.
  243. # [11:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=766780 nor, --, mozilla16, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Introduce Android scrolling events
  244. # [11:08] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 764686 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  245. # [11:08] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 764686 to FIXED.
  246. # [11:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764686 nor, --, mozilla16, eitan, RESO FIXED, Accessible::ChildAtPoint should be consistent with GetBounds
  247. # [11:44] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com)
  248. # [11:46] <Stevef> MarcoZ: would like to chat about footer mapping to contentinfo. webkit have a different implementation to firefox which i think is better: If the footer element is contained in an srticle or section element it is mapped to role=group otherwise it is mapped to contentinfo
  249. # [11:47] <Stevef> MarcoZ: the same goes for the header element: If the header element is contained in an article or section element it is mapped to role=group otherwise it is mapped to banner
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  256. # [13:02] <Stevef> MarcoZ: ping
  257. # [13:03] <@MarcoZ> Hi Stevef!
  258. # [13:03] <Stevef> had to drop off as firefox was doing funny stuff, fixed now
  259. # [13:04] <@MarcoZ> OK! So...If section or article contains header or footer elements, you want these header and footer elements to be role groupings, and subrole what?
  260. # [13:04] <Stevef> no subrole just role=group
  261. # [13:04] <@MarcoZ> Stevef: Because on Mac, many things are role grouping, and only the subrole decides *what* VoiceOver calls it in the end.
  262. # [13:04] <Stevef> hold on will check
  263. # [13:07] <Stevef> in webkit its mapped like this: role= AXGroup subrole= AXLandmarkContentInfo, description= footer. For footer elements outside of article and section
  264. # [13:08] <@MarcoZ> Yes, that's what we'll do on Mac in bug 718700, too.
  265. # [13:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718700 nor, P2, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] WAI-ARIA landmarks are not communicated to VoiceOver.
  266. # [13:09] <Stevef> for footer inside of article and section: role = AXGroup, subrole= (null), description = group
  267. # [13:09] <@MarcoZ> So, if inside section or article, they simply throw away the landmark stuff, as I suspected.
  268. # [13:09] <@MarcoZ> Not sure I like that too much.
  269. # [13:12] <Stevef> i think it works for majority of cases in regards to what contentinfo means as per ARIA
  270. # [13:17] <@MarcoZ> Stevef: Not sure I follow.
  271. # [13:18] <@MarcoZ> How is contentinfo different for a page versus an article?
  272. # [13:20] <Stevef> MarcoZ: the HTML5 footer element is not defined same as ARIA contentinfo, it can and is used differently, generally when it is used as the main page footer it fits the contentinfo definition otherwise it does not
  273. # [13:20] <Stevef> MarcoZ: same goes for HTML header and ARIA banner
  274. # [13:38] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com)
  275. # [13:40] <Stevef> scott_gonzalez: hi, how active is the jQuery UI accessibility effort?
  276. # [13:43] <scott_gonzalez> Stevef: Quite active.
  277. # [13:43] <scott_gonzalez> We're working through our widgets one at a time and doing extensive testing and logging where we diverge from the ARIA authoring practices.
  278. # [13:44] <scott_gonzalez> For example, search for "keyboard" on http://wiki.jqueryui.com/w/page/12138085/Tabs
  279. # [13:47] <Stevef> scott_gonzalez: thanks!
  280. # [13:47] <scott_gonzalez> Stevef: You can see the order of the widgets that we're working on: http://wiki.jqueryui.com/w/page/12138038/Roadmap
  281. # [13:48] <scott_gonzalez> 1.9 should be out in about a month.
  282. # [13:48] <@MarcoZ> scott_gonzalez: Exciting stuff!
  283. # [13:49] <Stevef> scott_gonzalez: yes i found that page last night, someone was asking me if the work was ongoing and thought you would be the ideal person to ask
  284. # [13:49] <@MarcoZ> Stevef: So, you're saying that mapping footer and header to contentinfo and banner respectively is OK for a whole page, but not for an article or section. And ARIA does not have appropriate landmark mappings for these cases, right?
  285. # [13:49] <@MarcoZ> Stevef: Are we talking about direct children of section or article, or can they be *anywhere* in the parent chain?
  286. # [13:50] <Stevef> MarcoZ: anywhere
  287. # [13:50] <@MarcoZ> Stevef: OK, so what *is* the header and footer being used for in such cases? Do you have an example?
  288. # [13:51] <Stevef> MarcoZ: i am saying that header/footer can both appear many times on a page which undermines the concpet of landmarks (i think)
  289. # [13:51] <Stevef> MarcoZ: will dig up some data for you
  290. # [13:51] <Stevef> concpet/concept
  291. # [13:57] <@MarcoZ> Stevef: Cool thanks!
  292. # [13:57] * @MarcoZ is out walking the dog, be back in about 30 mins.
  293. # [13:58] <@MarcoZ> Oh no, dog walking moved back a bit.
  294. # [14:05] <capella> dog said no? :p
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  297. # [14:17] <@MarcoZ> capella: Yup, but now she says "urgent!". :D
  298. # [14:17] <capella> heh figures!
  299. # [14:17] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 570785 from ASSIGNED to NEW.
  300. # [14:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=570785 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Add about:memory report for our accessibility cache
  301. # [14:18] <@firebot> markcapella@twcny.rr.com changed the Status on bug 739568 from ASSIGNED to NEW.
  302. # [14:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739568 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, nsXULTreeGridRowAccesible should cache its kids as nsXULTreeGridCellAccessibles not generic accessib
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  311. # [14:58] <davidb|mobile> big day for moz mobile. bigger day for 15 ;)
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  315. # [15:01] <@tbsaunde> davidb|mobile: 15?
  316. # [15:02] <@MarcoZ> tbsaunde: 15 will be accessible, 14 is not yet. And 16 will have Explore by touch, quick nav keys and such.
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  320. # [15:12] <@MarcoZ> Yay, Explore By Touch was migrated to Central and will be in tomorrow's nightly.
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  323. # [15:29] <davidb|mobile> not today's?
  324. # [15:29] <davidb|mobile> oh migration
  325. # [15:33] <@MarcoZ> davidb|mobile: 14 didn't have all the pieces in place yet.
  326. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> And 14 is being released earlier than the train ride for desktop would make you assume.
  327. # [15:34] <@MarcoZ> Next migration is still 3 weeks away IIRC.
  328. # [15:37] <davidb|mobile> MarcoZ: great email to Slater
  329. # [15:39] <@MarcoZ> davidb|mobile: Thanks!
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  336. # [16:07] <@davidb> i think the new FF is in google play store now, finally
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  342. # [16:37] <capella> Dang ... can't move cheese until Surkov gets back!
  343. # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> capella: ?
  344. # [16:38] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from khuey@kylehuey.com for attachment 636705 on bug 762770.
  345. # [16:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=762770 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, implement IAccessibleEx
  346. # [16:38] <capella> laughs - de-ns-ify stuff
  347. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> capella: well, its not like there's much left to do there ...
  348. # [16:40] <capella> Yah ... getting close! Then the namespace is next i guess, new contributor just signed on to finish the xpctable stuff ...
  349. # [16:40] <capella> progress !
  350. # [16:43] <@MarcoZ> capella: Amazing progress if I might add!
  351. # [16:44] <capella> fun ... easy ... housekeeping ... :)
  352. # [16:44] <@MarcoZ> capella: So, did you get anywhere with AccProbe yesterday?
  353. # [16:45] <capella> no! was help tbsaunde with UIA hacking ... thats todays project ...
  354. # [16:45] <capella> but reading said AccProbe no longer supported or something .... gotta get back to the train of thought
  355. # [16:48] <icaaq> hmm, A question regarding buttons that opens up navigations (on small responsive sites for example), Should the button be located inside or outside the nav-element?
  356. # [16:48] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 768461 filed by trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  357. # [16:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768461 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, add Accessible::HasValue() method
  358. # [16:49] <icaaq> The button itself is not part of the navigation imho
  359. # [16:51] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: I'd say outside.
  360. # [16:53] <capella> marcoz: most of my time to date has been learning internals / organization of a11y code
  361. # [16:53] <capella> hoping AccProbe will help me to understand the user perspective
  362. # [16:53] <@MarcoZ> It will, to some degree, although it is really a developer tool. :)
  363. # [16:54] <capella> dang it wants me to re-insatall java
  364. # [16:54] <icaaq> MarcoZ: We think alike, and it should also react on enter and space key. Time to add some more bugs, this time for mozilla.org :)
  365. # [16:55] <capella> marocz: ok ... watching you and steven and scott talk I go "hmmmmm?"
  366. # [16:55] <capella> thats kinda what i mean user perspective
  367. # [16:55] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: And it should have aria-expanded="true" if the stuff it is showing is showing, and aria-expanded="false" if that stuff is hidden.
  368. # [16:56] <@MarcoZ> capella: Oh yeah, that discussion. Hope we can reach some agreement. Really curious to see what stevef comes up with.
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  370. # [16:58] <icaaq> MarcoZ: Ohhhhh!! *frustrated*
  371. # [16:59] <icaaq> MarcoZ: I cant really understand why they use role="menubar" on mozilla.org it makes no sense at all.
  372. # [17:02] <icaaq> MarcoZ: It's only in smallscreen mode it being used. so I think it's hard for you to test :)
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  376. # [17:24] <icaaq> role="menuitem" on a a-element is also kind of confusing.
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  379. # [17:32] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Yeah, I remember having seen this once, but it went away for my view, so I thought it was gone for good. Menubar and menuitem really don't make sense for these, unless you're dealing with a true simulated Desktop app like Google Docs. And since we don't, they should just get rid of those.
  380. # [17:33] <@MarcoZ> hub: Hi! I like the try build in bug 718700. It shows the landmarks very nicely.
  381. # [17:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=718700 nor, P2, ---, nobody, NEW, [Mac] WAI-ARIA landmarks are not communicated to VoiceOver.
  382. # [17:36] <icaaq> MarcoZ: yes, a role="navigation" should be more than enough.
  383. # [17:40] <@hub> MarcoZ: good, good.
  384. # [17:41] <@hub> MarcoZ: I hope to push all these changes soon to nightly
  385. # [17:41] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 768299 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
  386. # [17:41] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com set the Resolution field on bug 768299 to DUPLICATE of bug 768296.
  387. # [17:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768299 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Presentational role on an image with an another element controlling it by using aria-controls
  388. # [17:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768296 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Don't bail on global aria attribute processing because of role="presentation"
  389. # [17:54] <@MarcoZ> Hm, the button to open the menu on ICS is still not labeled. But today's probably not a good time to talk to the mobile team about this. ;)
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  391. # [17:57] <@hub> davidb: from the gnome a11y list: "This summer (end of September) we plan to do an Accessibility meeting in
  392. # [17:57] <@hub> Randa/Switzerland with people from both Gnome and KDE."
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  397. # [18:13] <@MarcoZ> davidb: eeejay: I just filed bug 768494 to make sure the menu button on ICS becomes accessible. It should be a low-risk change and should still be OK to take on Aurora, too.
  398. # [18:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768494 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide an accessibility string for the menu button on ICS
  399. # [18:15] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-6D599AA6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  400. # [18:16] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  401. # [18:31] <@hub> MarcoZ: I think eeejay is busy at OSBridges in Portland
  402. # [18:34] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 767264 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  403. # [18:34] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk set the Resolution field on bug 767264 to FIXED.
  404. # [18:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767264 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, remove uses of do_QueryObject() in CAccessibleHyperlink
  405. # [18:41] <@MarcoZ> hub: Ah OK!
  406. # [18:43] * @MarcoZ is getting scared of himself. Just hacked something together in Java for bug 768494.
  407. # [18:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768494 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Provide an accessibility string for the menu button on ICS
  408. # [18:53] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 636194 on bug 758113.
  409. # [18:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758113 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, rm a bunch of nsIDOMNode stuff in nsHyperTextAccessible
  410. # [18:55] <capella> so thats what JAVA looks like
  411. # [18:57] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  412. # [18:57] <@davidb> MarcoZ: you could ask margaret for review
  413. # [19:05] <@hub> looks trivial
  414. # [19:05] <@hub> :-)
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  422. # [19:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737015 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, View>Stop and View>Reload menu items are missing on Linux
  423. # [19:15] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com cancelled review?(dbolter@mozilla.com ) for attachment 636203 on bug 767843.
  424. # [19:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767843 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, stop using nsIDOMHTMLOptionElement in a11y
  425. # [19:19] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com)
  426. # [19:22] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 636224 on bug 767860.
  427. # [19:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767860 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, stop using nsIDOMHTMLInputElement in a11y
  428. # [19:23] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Done.
  429. # [19:31] * Joins: mgorse (mgorse@moz-ECEC6393.org)
  430. # [19:31] <mgorse> Hi all. Is the Firefox available from Google Play accessible now? Or do I need to download a nightly?
  431. # [19:32] <@davidb> mgorse: beta, aurora or nightly AFAIK
  432. # [19:33] <@davidb> mgorse: it would be cool if you went with nightly, but I'd understand not wanting the risk.
  433. # [19:33] <@davidb> also, hi!
  434. # [19:33] <mgorse> Okay. Just saw your retweet, and I didn't know if that meant that the version with accessibility was out yet or not
  435. # [19:33] <@tbsaunde> davidb: isn't there no beta, since 14 shiped early?
  436. # [19:33] <@davidb> ah yes, I am hesitant to shout about the release for this very reason
  437. # [19:33] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you are probably right
  438. # [19:34] <mgorse> So there's a release, but the a11y is coming in a future release?
  439. # [19:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: oh btw, the change to range makes the code a lot nicer to read
  440. # [19:34] <mgorse> and, meh, I have no usable browser on my phone now atm, so, no matter what it is, it is surely better than nothing, or at least the worst that will happen would be that I'd waste some time and not get anywhere
  441. # [19:34] <@davidb> mgorse: right, and you can get it today if you don't mind it being called aurora or nightly
  442. # [19:35] <@davidb> MarcoZ: how awesome would it be to have mgorse on FF mobile nightly?
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  444. # [19:43] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I agree :)
  445. # [19:46] <@MarcoZ> davidb: mgorse: That would be awesome!
  446. # [19:47] <@MarcoZ> mgorse: You can grab the apk from http://nightly.mozilla.org
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  449. # [19:54] <capella> Gotta drop off till later ....
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  451. # [20:11] <@davidb> tbsaunde: :)
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  453. # [20:12] <@eeejay> mgorse, awesome! what phone are you on? what android version?
  454. # [20:13] <@davidb> this hurts my puny brain http://www.vupen.com/blog/20120625.Advanced_Exploitation_of_Mozilla_Firefox_UaF_CVE-2012-0469.php
  455. # [20:15] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, that was tricky, I'll admitt to just skiming
  456. # [20:15] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you on the mailing list?
  457. # [20:15] * @eeejay didn't get past the second sentence
  458. # [20:16] <capella> OW OW OW OW OW OW OW OW
  459. # [20:16] <@davidb> i think i need to write exploits in order to understand them
  460. # [20:17] <@davidb> and i need to understand them in order to write them
  461. # [20:17] * @davidb freezes
  462. # [20:18] <@tbsaunde> davidb: mailing list?
  463. # [20:18] <@tbsaunde> davidb: jesse linked it in #developers a day or two ago
  464. # [20:19] <@tbsaunde> reading the actually exploit might help, and reading the code involved if you really wanted to spend time
  465. # [20:19] <@MarcoZ> We have an expression in Germany for that which, intoned in the right way, expresses the dismay, or astonishment, about such a thing: "Leck' mich am Arsch..."
  466. # [20:20] <@MarcoZ> This is a case where the literal meaning so completely doesn't match the emotional meaning. :)
  467. # [20:21] <@hub> davidb: chicken and egg problem
  468. # [20:21] <@hub> at least we don't have that problem with bacon. we know it came after the pig
  469. # [20:22] <@MarcoZ> Part of that reminded me of the Assembler lessons I took in 1997. And the fact that I still recognized some of the statements really scared the hell out of me. :)
  470. # [20:22] <@MarcoZ> hub: LOL
  471. # [20:22] <@davidb> as long as you don't remember hex
  472. # [20:22] <@davidb> hexcode
  473. # [20:22] <@hub> Ham and egg: a day work for the chikcen, a lifetime commitment for the pig.
  474. # [20:23] <@hub> davidb: I remember the 68000 opcodes
  475. # [20:23] <@hub> some
  476. # [20:23] <@davidb> i used to know some 6809
  477. # [20:24] <@hub> I didn't have a computer running that
  478. # [20:25] <@davidb> you would have been only a slice of bacon back then
  479. # [20:27] <@davidb> of course that is silly talk… since you are not a bacon tree
  480. # [20:30] <@davidb> MarcoZ: what is the translation?
  481. # [20:33] <@MarcoZ> davidb: "Kiss my bottom". Or "Kiss my ass", whichever you prefer. Literally, "lick my ass", but I believe this is not a common phrase in English.
  482. # [20:34] <@MarcoZ> Uh-oh, I pushed to try before noticing that it might have a problem with slowness.
  483. # [20:34] <@davidb> lol
  484. # [20:34] <@davidb> taking that answer out of context might make me thing you are annoyed with me
  485. # [20:34] * Joins: hub_ (hub@A5087023.2354C43D.D8E68FF6.IP)
  486. # [20:35] <@davidb> in a very funny way
  487. # [20:35] * Quits: @hub (hub@A5087023.2354C43D.D8E68FF6.IP) (Ping timeout)
  488. # [20:35] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Like I said, the literal meaning does not at all reflect the phrase's common use. :)
  489. # [20:36] <@davidb> hehe
  490. # [20:36] <@davidb> well there is a similar one we use in English in the same context
  491. # [20:37] <@davidb> "F me"
  492. # [20:37] * hub_ is now known as hub
  493. # [20:37] <@davidb> +uck
  494. # [20:37] <@MarcoZ> :D
  495. # [20:37] <hub> looks like my machine reboot
  496. # [20:37] <hub> ed
  497. # [20:38] <@MarcoZ> hub: That's not nice of it! :)
  498. # [20:40] <hub> nope
  499. # [20:46] * Quits: @firebot (firebot@moz-F8C1AF63.carolina.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
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  502. # [20:50] * ChanServ sets mode: +o firebot
  503. # [20:50] <@davidb> firebot!
  504. # [20:51] <@firebot> hi davidb
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  512. # [21:20] <@MarcoZ> Oh, nice, many of these contentDescription items can be added via XML, making this a lot easier!
  513. # [21:23] * Quits: Mic (Instantbir@moz-DD713DC4.superkabel.de) (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
  514. # [21:25] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  515. # [21:53] <capella> wanders back...
  516. # [21:56] <@davidb> MarcoZ: r+ :)
  517. # [22:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Landed.
  518. # [22:05] <@davidb> nice
  519. # [22:06] <@MarcoZ> And now I'm off to bed. Good night!
  520. # [22:07] * Quits: @MarcoZ (Daily@moz-E47C69DC.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Made Firefox for Android just a little more accessible. Good night!)
  521. # [22:10] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
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  524. # [22:28] <@davidb> ok all, catch ya tomolly
  525. # [22:28] <@davidb> or later
  526. # [22:28] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
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  534. # Session Close: Wed Jun 27 00:00:00 2012

The end :)