/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-07-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jul 03 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  8. # [00:40] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 758112 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  9. # [00:40] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 758112 to FIXED.
  10. # [00:40] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 758112 from --- to mozilla16.
  11. # [00:40] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 758113 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  12. # [00:40] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 758113 to FIXED.
  13. # [00:40] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 758113 from --- to mozilla16.
  14. # [00:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758112 nor, --, mozilla16, nobody, RESO FIXED, use nsTypedSelection in a11y
  15. # [00:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758113 nor, --, mozilla16, nobody, RESO FIXED, rm a bunch of nsIDOMNode stuff in nsHyperTextAccessible
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  17. # [00:57] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 770364 filed by dburns@mozilla.com.
  18. # [00:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770364 is not accessible
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  31. # [03:49] <@firebot> ananuti@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 761589 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  32. # [03:49] <@firebot> ananuti@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 761589 to FIXED.
  33. # [03:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761589 nor, --, mozilla16, hub, NEW, Make accessibility.force_disabled cross platform
  34. # [03:50] <@firebot> ananuti@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 769304 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  35. # [03:50] <@firebot> ananuti@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 769304 to FIXED.
  36. # [03:50] <@firebot> ananuti@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 769304 from --- to mozilla16.
  37. # [03:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=769304 nor, --, mozilla16, hub, RESO FIXED, Add accessibility platform status to about:support
  38. # [03:51] <@firebot> ananuti@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 767269 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  39. # [03:51] <@firebot> ananuti@gmail.com set the Resolution field on bug 767269 to FIXED.
  40. # [03:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767269 nor, --, mozilla16, markcapella, RESO FIXED, ia2AccessibleText and ia2AccessibleEditbleText QI shouldn't call QI for nsIAccessibleText / Editabl
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  68. # [14:52] <icaaq> MarcoZ: Want to try out a more accessible firefox central page?
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  70. # [14:59] <@davidb> heyo
  71. # [15:00] <@MarcoZ> Hi davidb!
  72. # [15:00] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Always!
  73. # [15:02] <icaaq> MarcoZ: this is the original where you wont get any info on the "tour the interface" http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/central/
  74. # [15:02] <icaaq> MarcoZ: Heres my version http://icaaq.com/sandbox/mozilla/central.htm
  75. # [15:03] <icaaq> It's also more keyboardfriendly now, for sighted users :)
  76. # [15:07] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Very nice!
  77. # [15:09] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: I just looked at it, and it shows all the UI pieces that you can presumably mouse over in the screenshot image.
  78. # [15:09] <icaaq> MarcoZ: exactly :)
  79. # [15:13] <@MarcoZ> darn, why does bug 733848 show up again? I thought we had fixed that image!
  80. # [15:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733848 nor, --, mozilla14, surkov.alexander, REOP, Intermittent failures in a11y/accessible/name/test_markup.html | Can't get accessible for [object HT
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  87. # [15:51] <@davidb> is that the image map one?
  88. # [15:59] * @davidb wants goals crafted https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Planning/Goals
  89. # [15:59] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hope you are okay with the talos hat?
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  93. # [16:11] <khuey> Q3 goal: "Determine our Q4 goals"
  94. # [16:17] <@davidb> deferred
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  96. # [16:22] <@MarcoZ> Heh
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  107. # [17:35] <icaaq> MarcoZ: is responsiveness an accessibility issue? I'm thinking if a blind user don't know how big the screen is, and if it's small then maybe some functionality has been removed or is handled in a different way...
  108. # [17:36] <icaaq> screen = browserwindow
  109. # [17:44] <@tbsaunde> davidb|afk: I don't see any talos stuff on the wiki page, so I'm not sure ;p
  110. # [17:45] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
  111. # [17:45] <@davidb> tbsaunde: heh
  112. # [17:45] <@davidb> tbsaunde: well, the core goal includes performance.
  113. # [17:46] <@tbsaunde> davidb: true, although I don't see that speced out in it
  114. # [17:46] <@davidb> icaaq: accessibility and usability are similar concepts
  115. # [17:46] <@davidb> tbsaunde: go forth!
  116. # [17:47] <@tbsaunde> davidb: well, I'm not exactly sure what one goal should be
  117. # [17:48] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Except for touchscreen devices, blind users tend to not notice whether their window is currently in a maximized, restored or some other interim size state.
  118. # [17:48] <@MarcoZ> icaaq: Screen readers hide that fact from them for the most part.
  119. # [17:49] <@davidb> tbsaunde: well we have two possible talos related activities, performance improvement, and data/measurement.
  120. # [17:49] <@tbsaunde> davidb: true
  121. # [17:49] <@davidb> so a goal could be about improving performance measurably
  122. # [17:49] <@davidb> if it makes sense.
  123. # [17:49] <@tbsaunde> davidb: we could lso try to have a goal for making objects smaller (ISimpleDOMNode as a tear off / seperate platform objects on windows etc)
  124. # [17:50] <@davidb> this overlaps with design/refactor/architecture, which is ongoing, but yeah if there is something measurable here then a goal works. as long as it is a priority.
  125. # [17:51] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Have you tried inserting a 5k or 10k text chunk in a textarea recently? I find that if I do that, or write a blog post that grows in size, response becomes very laggy inside that textarea. Text insertions/removals take forever for the keyboard to become responsive again, and even typing response slows down and down and... And I am wondering if that's a11y APIs or a general problem.
  126. # [17:51] <@davidb> I haven't noticed this but I haven't been dogfooding this case.
  127. # [17:51] <@MarcoZ> "forever" being in the 45 seconds to one minute range.
  128. # [17:51] <@davidb> wow
  129. # [17:53] <@davidb> i just pasted ipsum lore into a text area and it was instant in terms of visually
  130. # [17:53] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I noticed it when blogging in WordPress as well as other places.
  131. # [17:53] <@davidb> MarcoZ: can you investigate a regression window?
  132. # [17:53] <@davidb> sounds important
  133. # [17:54] <@MarcoZ> I can try.
  134. # [17:54] <@tbsaunde> davidb: to measure we'd probably need the about:memory stuff
  135. # [17:54] <@davidb> sounds right
  136. # [17:55] <@davidb> I'd be thrilled with both a memory and perf goal, as long as we think we can hit them.
  137. # [17:58] <@davidb> MarcoZ: we have bug 573719
  138. # [17:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=573719 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, IAccessible2 - Recursively finding the object containing the caret is painfully slow.
  139. # [17:58] <@davidb> but i'm not sure if that is involved.
  140. # [18:00] <@tbsaunde> shouldn't be hard to profile assuming someone can reproduce
  141. # [18:00] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah
  142. # [18:02] <@davidb> I don't think need to do an official team meeting tomorrow. Impromptu is fine as needed.
  143. # [18:02] <@davidb> MarcoZ ^
  144. # [18:03] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oh, I get the talos thing now, hadn't read @moco mail yet
  145. # [18:04] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Tomorrow's July 4 in the US anyway.
  146. # [18:04] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  147. # [18:04] <@MarcoZ> davidb: I just tried, as a shot in the dark, Firefox 10, and the problem is there, too.
  148. # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> I have a 40 KB text stored in my clipboard. If I paste that, it takes almost a minute for Firefox to become responsive again.
  149. # [18:05] <@davidb> I can profile tomorrow for sure.
  150. # [18:05] * @davidb adds to list
  151. # [18:05] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Cool, I'll be available for pings/material.
  152. # [18:05] <@davidb> deal.
  153. # [18:06] * @davidb goes back to pushing paper
  154. # [18:06] * @MarcoZ has a wild idea.
  155. # [18:16] <@MarcoZ> OK! Firefox on Mac may be slow as hell with everything else, but pasting 40 KB of text into the same textarea in WordPress is handled quite gracefully.
  156. # [18:16] <@MarcoZ> Instantly responsive again.
  157. # [18:17] * @MarcoZ files the bug.
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  159. # [18:26] <@davidb> MarcoZ: can you try alternate screen readers?
  160. # [18:26] <@davidb> (on win)
  161. # [18:28] <icaaq> davidb: agreed on the usability/accessibility statement!
  162. # [18:29] <@davidb> good, I wasn't sure what you were asking but it sounds like Marco addressed things.
  163. # [18:30] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 770564 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  164. # [18:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770564 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The more text in a textarea, the more time it takes to update the content
  165. # [18:30] <@MarcoZ> davidb: Will try JAWS tomorrow morning when I'm fresh and will put results into the bug.
  166. # [18:31] <@davidb> groovy
  167. # [18:32] <icaaq> MarcoZ: regarding on the fact that blind users dont know which screen size they use, I think when responsive sites become more common it will be a problem. just look at the mozilla.org site. it has a different navigation on a smaller window.
  168. # [18:35] <icaaq> MarcoZ: more mobile-friendly but not so accessible as one had wanted :)
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  191. # [20:08] <@eeejay> jprmc, nice shirt!
  192. # [20:10] <@hub> where?
  193. # [20:12] <@hub> ah yeah I forgot
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  196. # [20:14] <@davidb> eeejay: heh, I said that in #planning"
  197. # [20:14] <@eeejay> i should join!
  198. # [20:14] <@davidb> that is backchannel for this meeting :)
  199. # [20:14] <@eeejay> the shirt was more relevant for this channel :)
  200. # [20:15] <@davidb> yes
  201. # [20:15] <@davidb> eeejay: the mobile analysis email was great. do you think you can draft roadmap/goals soon?
  202. # [20:16] <@eeejay> davidb, oh craps. i forgot. we talked about that re b2g, right?
  203. # [20:16] <@davidb> yeah
  204. # [20:16] <@davidb> s'ok, this week is fine
  205. # [20:17] <@davidb> confer with hub, marco, and team
  206. # [20:17] <@hub> here
  207. # [20:23] <@hub> no audible?
  208. # [20:26] <@davidb> hub: did you think we should say something?
  209. # [20:28] <@davidb> (there are things we could say)
  210. # [20:28] <@hub> nah
  211. # [20:28] <@hub> just poking you :D
  212. # [20:28] <@davidb> :)
  213. # [20:29] <@davidb> good to keep me on my toes
  214. # [20:29] <@davidb> hub: i'm going to reschedule yesterday's 1:1… you'll see an invite… just deny it if the timing is bad
  215. # [20:32] <@hub> ok
  216. # [20:33] <@davidb> awww snap
  217. # [20:33] <@davidb> wrong week open in zimbra
  218. # [20:34] <@hub> yeah I didn't realize either
  219. # [20:34] <@hub> Monday 9 is the usual one
  220. # [20:35] <@davidb> yeah. fixed. i think.
  221. # [20:35] <@hub> ok, confirmed
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  227. # [20:53] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 637339 on bug 750612.
  228. # [20:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750612 maj, --, ---, hub, NEW, [Mac] Too much is exposed to VoiceOver that is actually not currently visible/interactable
  229. # [20:53] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 638820 on bug 750612.
  230. # [20:57] <@hub> as soon as this one is r+ I have a mega landing
  231. # [20:59] <@eeejay> hub, is it a big perf breakthrough?
  232. # [20:59] * Joins: Mic (Instantbir@moz-A9360EC0.superkabel.de)
  233. # [21:02] <@davidb> MEGA LANDING
  234. # [21:07] <@hub> eeejay: more like a feature breakthrough
  235. # [21:08] <@eeejay> hub, awesome
  236. # [21:08] <@hub> davidb: I want to say Megaupload, but then I'd risk the wrath of some "authority"
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  240. # [22:11] <jaws> what is the recommended way to add a hidden element? as i understand it, display:none is skipped by screen readers.
  241. # [22:13] <@eeejay> jaws, adding an element that a screen reader will read?
  242. # [22:13] <jaws> yeah
  243. # [22:13] <jaws> is visiblity:collapse good enough?
  244. # [22:13] <@eeejay> jaws, giving it negative absolute offsets seems to be a common practice
  245. # [22:14] <jaws> ok, that's what i'm reading, but i also see that it can cause scrollbars to appear in RTL
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  248. # [22:14] <icaaq> jaws: http://snook.ca/archives/html_and_css/hiding-content-for-accessibility/
  249. # [22:14] <jaws> this is what i was reading by the way: http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2012/05/html5-accessibility-chops-hidden-and-aria-hidden/
  250. # [22:14] <jaws> ok cool, i'm most familiar with the text-indent solution :)
  251. # [22:17] <icaaq> jaws: but one thing that bothers me when hiding content is if there are links or other focusable elements in the hidden content keyboard users will have "invisible" tabs where nothing seems to happen. :)
  252. # [22:18] <icaaq> there should probably be a period between content and keyboard ^ ;)
  253. # [22:20] <jaws> ok, i'm only adding status text in the hidden content
  254. # [22:21] <jaws> also, i am thinking of using aria-live="polite" on the element that the status will contain. should i use assertive here?
  255. # [22:22] <icaaq> great! i would say role="status" http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#status
  256. # [22:23] <icaaq> it has a implicit aria-live value of polite :)
  257. # [22:25] <jaws> ah great
  258. # [22:33] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  259. # [22:34] <@davidb> Becky Gibson
  260. # [22:35] <@davidb> wrong channel
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  266. # Session Close: Wed Jul 04 00:00:00 2012

The end :)