/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-07-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jul 18 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  25. # [05:48] <@marcoz> Good morning all!
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  65. # [15:00] <@marcoz> davidb: Hi!
  66. # [15:00] <@davidb> heyo
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  68. # [15:01] <@marcoz> davidb: Finally got a working patch for bug 758431. I learned a lot over the past couple of days. ;)
  69. # [15:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758431 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [TABLET] Accessibility strings for Tablet URL bar.
  70. # [15:03] <@davidb> phew
  71. # [15:03] <@davidb> hi surkov how's the jet lag?
  72. # [15:03] * @davidb hunts coffee
  73. # [15:04] <@surkov> davidb: still hurts
  74. # [15:19] <@marcoz> Hi surkov!
  75. # [15:19] <@surkov> hey, marcoz
  76. # [15:21] <@marcoz> surkov:: Did you see Henri Sivonen's mail w.r.t the legend element?davidb
  77. # [15:21] <@davidb> MarcoZ: not yet, where did he send it?
  78. # [15:21] <@surkov> marcoz: not yet
  79. # [15:22] <@marcoz> davidb: surkov: Huh, that's strange, he sent it to our usual accounts, I got it on my MoCo address earlier today.
  80. # [15:22] * @marcoz forwards
  81. # [15:22] <@davidb> MarcoZ: i have it
  82. # [15:22] <@surkov> marcoz: I see
  83. # [15:22] <@davidb> I am reading previous emails still
  84. # [15:23] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I don't have a gut reaction.
  85. # [15:24] <@davidb> (having just read it)
  86. # [15:24] <@marcoz> surkov: Do you know what our current implementation is? Do we expect the legend as the first child of a fieldset element?
  87. # [15:25] <@davidb> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/html/HTMLFormControlAccessible.cpp#626
  88. # [15:25] <@surkov> marcoz: no
  89. # [15:25] <@davidb> I don't think we require it.
  90. # [15:25] <@davidb> right
  91. # [15:26] <@davidb> surkov: are you in the html wg?
  92. # [15:26] <@davidb> i can't recall if we followed through with that or not
  93. # [15:26] <@surkov> davidb: i'm not sure
  94. # [15:27] <@davidb> heh
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  98. # [15:34] <@davidb> MarcoZ, surkov I think this would slow down name calc.
  99. # [15:37] <@marcoz> davidb: That's what I was thinking. Having to crawl all the ancestry and/or children would be costly.
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  102. # [15:58] * davidb is now known as davidb|mtg
  103. # [15:58] <@davidb|mtg> MarcoZ: i've replied to Henri
  104. # [15:58] <@marcoz> davidb|mtg: Thanks!
  105. # [15:58] <@davidb|mtg> :)
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  115. # [16:40] <@surkov> davidb|mtg: some pictures: http://asurkov.blogspot.com/2012/07/crimea-trip.html
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  118. # [16:48] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: fantastic!
  119. # [16:48] <@surkov> davidb|mtg: it is :(
  120. # [16:48] <@surkov> :_
  121. # [16:48] <@surkov> :)
  122. # [16:54] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: regarding the talos thing…. I'm skeptical these days in general. The standard deviation on our tests seems high and I don't know why.
  123. # [16:54] <@davidb|mtg> needs investigation
  124. # [17:08] <@surkov> you mean possibly bad numbering?
  125. # [17:15] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: yeah, inconsistency
  126. # [17:15] <@surkov> ok
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  132. # [18:14] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you around?
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  134. # [18:21] <@davidb> ok i'm going to hunt lunch
  135. # [18:22] <@marcoz> Bon apetite!
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  138. # [18:44] <@davidb> success! falafel
  139. # [18:44] <@davidb> i must admit, hunting food is easy these days
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  142. # [18:47] <@davidb> hub: what distro do you use?
  143. # [19:02] <@hub> davidb: Fedora 17
  144. # [19:02] <@davidb> hub: do you use openvn?
  145. # [19:02] <@davidb> openvpn
  146. # [19:02] <@davidb> hub: because bsmedberg is asking in #moco
  147. # [19:03] <@hub> no
  148. # [19:03] <@hub> I don't have vpn at all
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  150. # [19:04] <@marcoz> eeejay: Hi! You around yet?
  151. # [19:04] <@davidb> ok
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  155. # [19:20] <tbsaunde> davidb|mtg: I am now
  156. # [19:21] <tbsaunde> davidb|mtg: turns out the bank that didn't require a visa was worse than greedy, they employ clowns
  157. # [19:24] <@davidb|mtg> sadly common
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  160. # [19:40] <@eeejay> hey marcoz
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  162. # [19:52] <@marcoz> eeejay: Hi! I just wanted to check with you if you were already able to dig into the Jelly Bean problems.
  163. # [19:52] <@eeejay> marcoz, just got the device yesterday, didn't get much of a chance to play with it. hope to do some investigating today
  164. # [19:52] <@eeejay> marcoz, i want to land jb support in aurora once we figure it out
  165. # [19:53] <@marcoz> eeejay: I'm with you on that one!
  166. # [19:53] <@eeejay> i need to become less shy about asking for aurora approvale
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  168. # [19:55] <@marcoz> eeejay: It's good to be cautious, and one of my roles in the team is to interface with release drivers on such matters, but yeah we mentioned that we'd have a little more than usual accessibility-related things to go on Aurora for a while. And this definitely warrants it.
  169. # [19:56] <@eeejay> marcoz, having just ics support, and jb unsupport seems confusing and regressive
  170. # [19:56] <@marcoz> Definitely! I can only do testing on the tablet currently, since the Nexus with JB only allows basic touch exploration. No web item can be activated.
  171. # [19:59] <@marcoz> I just hope we don't have to wrap every single accessible in an Android accessible now.
  172. # [20:06] <@marcoz> eeejay: ^
  173. # [20:06] <@eeejay> marcoz, oh god. i hope not
  174. # [20:11] <@marcoz> eeejay: Exactly! We just need to tell it where to click if someone double-taps. :)
  175. # [20:15] <@eeejay> marcoz, implementing will be tricky. i'll need to look at android sources
  176. # [20:16] <@marcoz> I can help with testing stuff locally, without having to wait for currently very slow try-server builds.
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  181. # [20:28] <@davidb> I'm annoyed we get surprises with android a11y.
  182. # [20:29] <fxa90id> :)
  183. # [20:29] <fxa90id> hi guys
  184. # [20:29] <fxa90id> where is my polish friend ?
  185. # [20:29] <@davidb> fxa90id: hi
  186. # [20:29] <fxa90id> I didnt see him for a while
  187. # [20:29] <@davidb> fxa90id: his contract ran out
  188. # [20:29] <fxa90id> oh :(
  189. # [20:30] <@davidb> yeah
  190. # [20:30] <fxa90id> do you have any email or something ?
  191. # [20:30] <@davidb> fxa90id: I do, I can PM you
  192. # [20:30] <fxa90id> k thx
  193. # [20:44] <@marcoz> davidb: Yeah, but with all those shortcomings, some breakage had to happen sooner or later. I'm actually glad it hit us so early in our Android accessibility lifecycle that we can still make adjustments easily.
  194. # [20:45] <@davidb> I'm glad they improved, I'm unhappy it has to be a surprise.
  195. # [20:45] <@marcoz> Thank Google.
  196. # [20:45] <@davidb> :)
  197. # [20:47] <@marcoz> They aren't very forthcoming in advance, but thankfully we now have all the sources to look at.
  198. # [20:49] <@hub> like Apple, except that Apple got it "right" earlier
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  200. # [20:51] <satdav> davidb, have i missed the accessibility meeting
  201. # [20:51] <satdav> if so by how long
  202. # [20:51] <@davidb> satdav: no meeting today. you can follow dev.planning for announcements
  203. # [20:51] <@marcoz> satdav: no meeting this week.
  204. # [20:52] <@davidb> satdav: if we had the meeting it would have been about 4 hours ago
  205. # [20:52] <satdav> OK
  206. # [20:52] <satdav> I am notused to the time over in the us
  207. # [20:54] <@davidb> (I'm in Canada FWIW)
  208. # [20:55] <satdav> davidb, is their a vidyo link for the meetings
  209. # [20:55] <@davidb> satdav: yes
  210. # [20:55] <@davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Meetings
  211. # [21:02] <@eeejay> marcoz, they don't have beta testing periods
  212. # [21:02] <@eeejay> marcoz, they push updates a week after announcement and break apps
  213. # [21:03] <@eeejay> apple at least has dev beta testing periods
  214. # [21:04] <@eeejay> playing around with jb a11y last night
  215. # [21:04] <@eeejay> the concepts are right, the implementation feels shaky
  216. # [21:05] <@eeejay> laggy explore by touch start
  217. # [21:05] <@marcoz> eeejay: I noticed that, too. It is much better than ICS, but there are times I've seen it fall over.
  218. # [21:06] <@marcoz> Oh yes, the problems that finger movements are often not instantaneously recognized is still there.
  219. # [21:06] <@eeejay> yeah
  220. # [21:06] <@eeejay> they must be waiting for a higher level gesture before resorting to ebt
  221. # [21:07] <satdav> davidb, you should sent it also on the accessibility mailing list
  222. # [21:08] <@davidb> satdav: MarcoZ handles our announcements. We try to do all technical communication to dev.platform and dev.planning.
  223. # [21:09] <satdav> OK
  224. # [21:09] <@davidb> This meeting is very tactical, not really something for a11y general.
  225. # [21:09] <satdav> OK
  226. # [21:09] <satdav> we should do a general accessibility meeting
  227. # [21:09] <satdav> for all aspects
  228. # [21:09] <@davidb> I attend enough meetings :)
  229. # [21:09] <satdav> david what about a irc one in that case
  230. # [21:10] <@davidb> I'd recommend meetings if you want to have specific outcomes.
  231. # [21:10] <@eeejay> oh, looky. jb source code is available
  232. # [21:10] <satdav> OK
  233. # [21:10] <@eeejay> i need to pull myself away from gaia code
  234. # [21:10] <@davidb> eeejay it is like candy!
  235. # [21:10] <satdav> marcoz, is it you who hosts the meetings
  236. # [21:10] <@eeejay> davidb, 'tis
  237. # [21:12] <@marcoz> satdav: No, it's a team meeting really. Like davidb said, dull tactical stuff mostly. Everything day to day stuff is discussed when it comes up, via e-mail, list, IRC etc. So these meetings are probably not interesting to people outside the team plus a few other Mozilla employees on occasion if we have something to discuss spawning more than our team. But for most outsiders, it really isn't that interesting.
  238. # [21:12] <@marcoz> eeejay: Does the HTML and JS they use look sensible?
  239. # [21:12] <@davidb> That sounds like what I just PM'ed :)
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  242. # [21:13] <@eeejay> marcoz, if you mean it is not canvas, yes it is sensible
  243. # [21:13] <@askalski> hi everyone :)
  244. # [21:13] <@davidb> askalski: hi!
  245. # [21:13] <@askalski> davidb, hello!
  246. # [21:13] <satdav> marcoz, i was suggestion to davidb yesterday for you guys to record the meetings or take notes
  247. # [21:13] <@eeejay> marcoz, outside of that it is really tough. not really functional without a lot of aria tooling
  248. # [21:14] <@davidb> askalski: I unplugged Arthur FWIW - I'm going to setup a cron job and add a few tests :)
  249. # [21:14] * Quits: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-9C0A6AF4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Ping timeout)
  250. # [21:14] <satdav> davidb, do we have a tracking bug for firefox accessibility issues
  251. # [21:14] <@askalski> davidb, well, I returned the harware with along with win7 license, so I was unable to log in anyway
  252. # [21:15] <@davidb> satdav: we have several for various areas of work.
  253. # [21:15] <@davidb> for front-end there is also the access keyword
  254. # [21:15] <@davidb> for platform we have our own core component
  255. # [21:15] <satdav> OK
  256. # [21:15] <@davidb> satdav: why?
  257. # [21:15] <satdav> was wondering to see if i can verify any of them
  258. # [21:16] <@davidb> oh nice
  259. # [21:16] <@davidb> MarcoZ: we have a verifier volunteer! :)
  260. # [21:16] <satdav> so what bugs do i look for
  261. # [21:16] <@marcoz> eeejay: I suspected as much. But that's OK.
  262. # [21:16] <satdav> I only have windows 7 64bit premium
  263. # [21:17] <@eeejay> askalski, yo yo
  264. # [21:17] <@askalski> eeejay, hi eeejay!
  265. # [21:17] <@marcoz> satdav: that's sufficient.
  266. # [21:17] <@askalski> davidb, eeejay, guys, are you planning to show up in Warsaw for MozCamp?
  267. # [21:17] <@marcoz> Hi ask!
  268. # [21:17] <@askalski> hi marcoz !
  269. # [21:17] <@eeejay> not this year
  270. # [21:18] * @eeejay needs to attend one eventually
  271. # [21:18] <@askalski> I would enjoy seeing you :)
  272. # [21:18] <@davidb> askalski: no… are you going to be there?
  273. # [21:18] <@askalski> eeejay, shame, Warsaw gets really cool now
  274. # [21:18] <@marcoz> askalski: Unfortunately not. It collides with other duties for me.
  275. # [21:18] <@askalski> davidb, well, I am living here. I may show up, although I have not filled any registration papers yet
  276. # [21:18] <@eeejay> i hear it is quite the city
  277. # [21:19] <@davidb> a lot of history
  278. # [21:19] <@marcoz> (oh and it collides with my vacation in September I think, too)
  279. # [21:19] <satdav> marcoz, what do i need to test them then
  280. # [21:19] <@askalski> hub?
  281. # [21:19] <satdav> only can get free software
  282. # [21:19] <satdav> as i dont have a cc
  283. # [21:20] <@askalski> well, if any of you would decide to show up, that would be really great
  284. # [21:20] <@askalski> I'd love to see you again
  285. # [21:20] <@marcoz> satdav: You can look at some of the bugs related to themeing, high-contrast mode etc. That doesn't require you to learn how to use a screen reader.
  286. # [21:20] <@davidb> askalski: thanks!
  287. # [21:20] <@davidb> I hope one day to visit.
  288. # [21:21] <@askalski> oh, and let me know when you're in Europe next time, I might be around
  289. # [21:21] <@marcoz> I visited Warsaw in September 1999. Guess the city I encountered then can hardly be compared to what it is today. :)
  290. # [21:22] <satdav> OK
  291. # [21:22] <satdav> marcoz, if u giveme a link i can verify them
  292. # [21:22] <satdav> on the latest firefox
  293. # [21:23] <satdav> i could also try nightly
  294. # [21:23] * @marcoz doesn't have the number for the meta bug handy currently, and it's late and I'm tired.
  295. # [21:25] <@marcoz> satdav: I believe it's bug 343205
  296. # [21:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343205 nor, --, Firefox 3, pilgrim, NEW, Firefox high contrast theme bugs
  297. # [21:25] <satdav> marcoz, what time zone you on
  298. # [21:25] <satdav> as i am gmt
  299. # [21:25] <@marcoz> OK, I'm off/in the background. Machine is running a build. See you all tomorrow!
  300. # [21:27] * Joins: NimeshNeema (u2689@moz-160C58C6.com)
  301. # [21:27] <satdav> speak tommorow
  302. # [21:28] <satdav> been speaking to vidyo today about some improvements
  303. # [21:28] <satdav> and they are going to look at them
  304. # [21:28] <satdav> like making it compatable with all screen readers
  305. # [21:30] <@eeejay> bbiab
  306. # [21:32] <@askalski> well, if no one of you shows up at MozCamp, I guess I'll skip it as well
  307. # [21:33] <satdav> askalski, when is it
  308. # [21:33] <satdav> as i might be going
  309. # [21:34] <@askalski> September 8-9th in Warsaw, Poland
  310. # [21:35] <satdav> OK i might go
  311. # [21:35] <@askalski> satdav, btw, Andrzej Skalski, pleased to meet you :)
  312. # [21:35] * Parts: satdav (satdav@moz-10BC3E86.cable.virginmedia.com) (Leaving)
  313. # [21:35] * Joins: satdav (satdav@moz-10BC3E86.cable.virginmedia.com)
  314. # [21:35] <satdav> askalski, david weir
  315. # [21:35] <satdav> I am on the accessibility list
  316. # [21:37] * Joins: Mic (Instantbir@moz-4D5887FE.superkabel.de)
  317. # [21:39] * Joins: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-9C0A6AF4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  318. # [21:42] * @davidb needs to relocate
  319. # [21:42] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  320. # [21:43] <@askalski> ok, I am going away, see you all later!
  321. # [21:44] * Quits: Mic (Instantbir@moz-4D5887FE.superkabel.de) (Quit: Instantbird 1.2a1pre -- http://www.instantbird.com)
  322. # [21:50] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@moz-6A36EC49.ip.abpl.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
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  334. # Session Close: Thu Jul 19 00:00:01 2012

The end :)