/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-07-18 / end
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- # Session Start: Wed Jul 18 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [05:48] <@marcoz> Good morning all!
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- # [15:00] <@marcoz> davidb: Hi!
- # [15:00] <@davidb> heyo
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- # [15:01] <@marcoz> davidb: Finally got a working patch for bug 758431. I learned a lot over the past couple of days. ;)
- # [15:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=758431 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [TABLET] Accessibility strings for Tablet URL bar.
- # [15:03] <@davidb> phew
- # [15:03] <@davidb> hi surkov how's the jet lag?
- # [15:03] * @davidb hunts coffee
- # [15:04] <@surkov> davidb: still hurts
- # [15:19] <@marcoz> Hi surkov!
- # [15:19] <@surkov> hey, marcoz
- # [15:21] <@marcoz> surkov:: Did you see Henri Sivonen's mail w.r.t the legend element?davidb
- # [15:21] <@davidb> MarcoZ: not yet, where did he send it?
- # [15:21] <@surkov> marcoz: not yet
- # [15:22] <@marcoz> davidb: surkov: Huh, that's strange, he sent it to our usual accounts, I got it on my MoCo address earlier today.
- # [15:22] * @marcoz forwards
- # [15:22] <@davidb> MarcoZ: i have it
- # [15:22] <@surkov> marcoz: I see
- # [15:22] <@davidb> I am reading previous emails still
- # [15:23] <@davidb> MarcoZ: I don't have a gut reaction.
- # [15:24] <@davidb> (having just read it)
- # [15:24] <@marcoz> surkov: Do you know what our current implementation is? Do we expect the legend as the first child of a fieldset element?
- # [15:25] <@davidb> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/html/HTMLFormControlAccessible.cpp#626
- # [15:25] <@surkov> marcoz: no
- # [15:25] <@davidb> I don't think we require it.
- # [15:25] <@davidb> right
- # [15:26] <@davidb> surkov: are you in the html wg?
- # [15:26] <@davidb> i can't recall if we followed through with that or not
- # [15:26] <@surkov> davidb: i'm not sure
- # [15:27] <@davidb> heh
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- # [15:34] <@davidb> MarcoZ, surkov I think this would slow down name calc.
- # [15:37] <@marcoz> davidb: That's what I was thinking. Having to crawl all the ancestry and/or children would be costly.
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- # [15:58] <@davidb|mtg> MarcoZ: i've replied to Henri
- # [15:58] <@marcoz> davidb|mtg: Thanks!
- # [15:58] <@davidb|mtg> :)
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- # [16:40] <@surkov> davidb|mtg: some pictures: http://asurkov.blogspot.com/2012/07/crimea-trip.html
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- # [16:48] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: fantastic!
- # [16:48] <@surkov> davidb|mtg: it is :(
- # [16:48] <@surkov> :_
- # [16:48] <@surkov> :)
- # [16:54] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: regarding the talos thing…. I'm skeptical these days in general. The standard deviation on our tests seems high and I don't know why.
- # [16:54] <@davidb|mtg> needs investigation
- # [17:08] <@surkov> you mean possibly bad numbering?
- # [17:15] <@davidb|mtg> surkov: yeah, inconsistency
- # [17:15] <@surkov> ok
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- # [18:14] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you around?
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- # [18:21] <@davidb> ok i'm going to hunt lunch
- # [18:22] <@marcoz> Bon apetite!
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- # [18:44] <@davidb> success! falafel
- # [18:44] <@davidb> i must admit, hunting food is easy these days
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- # [18:47] <@davidb> hub: what distro do you use?
- # [19:02] <@hub> davidb: Fedora 17
- # [19:02] <@davidb> hub: do you use openvn?
- # [19:02] <@davidb> openvpn
- # [19:02] <@davidb> hub: because bsmedberg is asking in #moco
- # [19:03] <@hub> no
- # [19:03] <@hub> I don't have vpn at all
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- # [19:04] <@marcoz> eeejay: Hi! You around yet?
- # [19:04] <@davidb> ok
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- # [19:20] <tbsaunde> davidb|mtg: I am now
- # [19:21] <tbsaunde> davidb|mtg: turns out the bank that didn't require a visa was worse than greedy, they employ clowns
- # [19:24] <@davidb|mtg> sadly common
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- # [19:40] <@eeejay> hey marcoz
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- # [19:52] <@marcoz> eeejay: Hi! I just wanted to check with you if you were already able to dig into the Jelly Bean problems.
- # [19:52] <@eeejay> marcoz, just got the device yesterday, didn't get much of a chance to play with it. hope to do some investigating today
- # [19:52] <@eeejay> marcoz, i want to land jb support in aurora once we figure it out
- # [19:53] <@marcoz> eeejay: I'm with you on that one!
- # [19:53] <@eeejay> i need to become less shy about asking for aurora approvale
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- # [19:55] <@marcoz> eeejay: It's good to be cautious, and one of my roles in the team is to interface with release drivers on such matters, but yeah we mentioned that we'd have a little more than usual accessibility-related things to go on Aurora for a while. And this definitely warrants it.
- # [19:56] <@eeejay> marcoz, having just ics support, and jb unsupport seems confusing and regressive
- # [19:56] <@marcoz> Definitely! I can only do testing on the tablet currently, since the Nexus with JB only allows basic touch exploration. No web item can be activated.
- # [19:59] <@marcoz> I just hope we don't have to wrap every single accessible in an Android accessible now.
- # [20:06] <@marcoz> eeejay: ^
- # [20:06] <@eeejay> marcoz, oh god. i hope not
- # [20:11] <@marcoz> eeejay: Exactly! We just need to tell it where to click if someone double-taps. :)
- # [20:15] <@eeejay> marcoz, implementing will be tricky. i'll need to look at android sources
- # [20:16] <@marcoz> I can help with testing stuff locally, without having to wait for currently very slow try-server builds.
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- # [20:28] <@davidb> I'm annoyed we get surprises with android a11y.
- # [20:29] <fxa90id> :)
- # [20:29] <fxa90id> hi guys
- # [20:29] <fxa90id> where is my polish friend ?
- # [20:29] <@davidb> fxa90id: hi
- # [20:29] <fxa90id> I didnt see him for a while
- # [20:29] <@davidb> fxa90id: his contract ran out
- # [20:29] <fxa90id> oh :(
- # [20:30] <@davidb> yeah
- # [20:30] <fxa90id> do you have any email or something ?
- # [20:30] <@davidb> fxa90id: I do, I can PM you
- # [20:30] <fxa90id> k thx
- # [20:44] <@marcoz> davidb: Yeah, but with all those shortcomings, some breakage had to happen sooner or later. I'm actually glad it hit us so early in our Android accessibility lifecycle that we can still make adjustments easily.
- # [20:45] <@davidb> I'm glad they improved, I'm unhappy it has to be a surprise.
- # [20:45] <@marcoz> Thank Google.
- # [20:45] <@davidb> :)
- # [20:47] <@marcoz> They aren't very forthcoming in advance, but thankfully we now have all the sources to look at.
- # [20:49] <@hub> like Apple, except that Apple got it "right" earlier
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- # [20:51] <satdav> davidb, have i missed the accessibility meeting
- # [20:51] <satdav> if so by how long
- # [20:51] <@davidb> satdav: no meeting today. you can follow dev.planning for announcements
- # [20:51] <@marcoz> satdav: no meeting this week.
- # [20:52] <@davidb> satdav: if we had the meeting it would have been about 4 hours ago
- # [20:52] <satdav> OK
- # [20:52] <satdav> I am notused to the time over in the us
- # [20:54] <@davidb> (I'm in Canada FWIW)
- # [20:55] <satdav> davidb, is their a vidyo link for the meetings
- # [20:55] <@davidb> satdav: yes
- # [20:55] <@davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Meetings
- # [21:02] <@eeejay> marcoz, they don't have beta testing periods
- # [21:02] <@eeejay> marcoz, they push updates a week after announcement and break apps
- # [21:03] <@eeejay> apple at least has dev beta testing periods
- # [21:04] <@eeejay> playing around with jb a11y last night
- # [21:04] <@eeejay> the concepts are right, the implementation feels shaky
- # [21:05] <@eeejay> laggy explore by touch start
- # [21:05] <@marcoz> eeejay: I noticed that, too. It is much better than ICS, but there are times I've seen it fall over.
- # [21:06] <@marcoz> Oh yes, the problems that finger movements are often not instantaneously recognized is still there.
- # [21:06] <@eeejay> yeah
- # [21:06] <@eeejay> they must be waiting for a higher level gesture before resorting to ebt
- # [21:07] <satdav> davidb, you should sent it also on the accessibility mailing list
- # [21:08] <@davidb> satdav: MarcoZ handles our announcements. We try to do all technical communication to dev.platform and dev.planning.
- # [21:09] <satdav> OK
- # [21:09] <@davidb> This meeting is very tactical, not really something for a11y general.
- # [21:09] <satdav> OK
- # [21:09] <satdav> we should do a general accessibility meeting
- # [21:09] <satdav> for all aspects
- # [21:09] <@davidb> I attend enough meetings :)
- # [21:09] <satdav> david what about a irc one in that case
- # [21:10] <@davidb> I'd recommend meetings if you want to have specific outcomes.
- # [21:10] <@eeejay> oh, looky. jb source code is available
- # [21:10] <satdav> OK
- # [21:10] <@eeejay> i need to pull myself away from gaia code
- # [21:10] <@davidb> eeejay it is like candy!
- # [21:10] <satdav> marcoz, is it you who hosts the meetings
- # [21:10] <@eeejay> davidb, 'tis
- # [21:12] <@marcoz> satdav: No, it's a team meeting really. Like davidb said, dull tactical stuff mostly. Everything day to day stuff is discussed when it comes up, via e-mail, list, IRC etc. So these meetings are probably not interesting to people outside the team plus a few other Mozilla employees on occasion if we have something to discuss spawning more than our team. But for most outsiders, it really isn't that interesting.
- # [21:12] <@marcoz> eeejay: Does the HTML and JS they use look sensible?
- # [21:12] <@davidb> That sounds like what I just PM'ed :)
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- # [21:13] <@eeejay> marcoz, if you mean it is not canvas, yes it is sensible
- # [21:13] <@askalski> hi everyone :)
- # [21:13] <@davidb> askalski: hi!
- # [21:13] <@askalski> davidb, hello!
- # [21:13] <satdav> marcoz, i was suggestion to davidb yesterday for you guys to record the meetings or take notes
- # [21:13] <@eeejay> marcoz, outside of that it is really tough. not really functional without a lot of aria tooling
- # [21:14] <@davidb> askalski: I unplugged Arthur FWIW - I'm going to setup a cron job and add a few tests :)
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- # [21:14] <satdav> davidb, do we have a tracking bug for firefox accessibility issues
- # [21:14] <@askalski> davidb, well, I returned the harware with along with win7 license, so I was unable to log in anyway
- # [21:15] <@davidb> satdav: we have several for various areas of work.
- # [21:15] <@davidb> for front-end there is also the access keyword
- # [21:15] <@davidb> for platform we have our own core component
- # [21:15] <satdav> OK
- # [21:15] <@davidb> satdav: why?
- # [21:15] <satdav> was wondering to see if i can verify any of them
- # [21:16] <@davidb> oh nice
- # [21:16] <@davidb> MarcoZ: we have a verifier volunteer! :)
- # [21:16] <satdav> so what bugs do i look for
- # [21:16] <@marcoz> eeejay: I suspected as much. But that's OK.
- # [21:16] <satdav> I only have windows 7 64bit premium
- # [21:17] <@eeejay> askalski, yo yo
- # [21:17] <@askalski> eeejay, hi eeejay!
- # [21:17] <@marcoz> satdav: that's sufficient.
- # [21:17] <@askalski> davidb, eeejay, guys, are you planning to show up in Warsaw for MozCamp?
- # [21:17] <@marcoz> Hi ask!
- # [21:17] <@askalski> hi marcoz !
- # [21:17] <@eeejay> not this year
- # [21:18] * @eeejay needs to attend one eventually
- # [21:18] <@askalski> I would enjoy seeing you :)
- # [21:18] <@davidb> askalski: no… are you going to be there?
- # [21:18] <@askalski> eeejay, shame, Warsaw gets really cool now
- # [21:18] <@marcoz> askalski: Unfortunately not. It collides with other duties for me.
- # [21:18] <@askalski> davidb, well, I am living here. I may show up, although I have not filled any registration papers yet
- # [21:18] <@eeejay> i hear it is quite the city
- # [21:19] <@davidb> a lot of history
- # [21:19] <@marcoz> (oh and it collides with my vacation in September I think, too)
- # [21:19] <satdav> marcoz, what do i need to test them then
- # [21:19] <@askalski> hub?
- # [21:19] <satdav> only can get free software
- # [21:19] <satdav> as i dont have a cc
- # [21:20] <@askalski> well, if any of you would decide to show up, that would be really great
- # [21:20] <@askalski> I'd love to see you again
- # [21:20] <@marcoz> satdav: You can look at some of the bugs related to themeing, high-contrast mode etc. That doesn't require you to learn how to use a screen reader.
- # [21:20] <@davidb> askalski: thanks!
- # [21:20] <@davidb> I hope one day to visit.
- # [21:21] <@askalski> oh, and let me know when you're in Europe next time, I might be around
- # [21:21] <@marcoz> I visited Warsaw in September 1999. Guess the city I encountered then can hardly be compared to what it is today. :)
- # [21:22] <satdav> OK
- # [21:22] <satdav> marcoz, if u giveme a link i can verify them
- # [21:22] <satdav> on the latest firefox
- # [21:23] <satdav> i could also try nightly
- # [21:23] * @marcoz doesn't have the number for the meta bug handy currently, and it's late and I'm tired.
- # [21:25] <@marcoz> satdav: I believe it's bug 343205
- # [21:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343205 nor, --, Firefox 3, pilgrim, NEW, Firefox high contrast theme bugs
- # [21:25] <satdav> marcoz, what time zone you on
- # [21:25] <satdav> as i am gmt
- # [21:25] <@marcoz> OK, I'm off/in the background. Machine is running a build. See you all tomorrow!
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- # [21:27] <satdav> speak tommorow
- # [21:28] <satdav> been speaking to vidyo today about some improvements
- # [21:28] <satdav> and they are going to look at them
- # [21:28] <satdav> like making it compatable with all screen readers
- # [21:30] <@eeejay> bbiab
- # [21:32] <@askalski> well, if no one of you shows up at MozCamp, I guess I'll skip it as well
- # [21:33] <satdav> askalski, when is it
- # [21:33] <satdav> as i might be going
- # [21:34] <@askalski> September 8-9th in Warsaw, Poland
- # [21:35] <satdav> OK i might go
- # [21:35] <@askalski> satdav, btw, Andrzej Skalski, pleased to meet you :)
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- # [21:35] <satdav> askalski, david weir
- # [21:35] <satdav> I am on the accessibility list
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- # [21:43] <@askalski> ok, I am going away, see you all later!
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- # Session Close: Thu Jul 19 00:00:01 2012
The end :)