/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-07-27 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Fri Jul 27 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:29] * jaws|lunch is now known as jaws
  4. # [00:33] * Quits: ehsan-busy (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Input/output error)
  5. # [00:38] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  6. # [00:49] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-BAADF108.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
  7. # [01:01] * Joins: ehsan-busy (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP)
  8. # [01:07] * Parts: jimm (jmathies@moz-7F164CA1.pn.at.cox.net)
  9. # [01:17] * hub is now known as hub|gone
  10. # [01:43] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  11. # [02:20] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  12. # [02:30] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-BAADF108.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net)
  13. # [03:15] * hub|gone is now known as hub
  14. # [03:44] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-6D599AA6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  15. # [03:58] * Quits: @hub (hub@A5087023.2354C43D.D8E68FF6.IP) (Ping timeout)
  16. # [04:06] * Joins: surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP)
  17. # [04:06] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  18. # [04:13] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@moz-66939657.tmodns.net)
  19. # [04:13] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  20. # [04:34] * Joins: hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net)
  21. # [04:34] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  22. # [04:42] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  23. # [04:48] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@moz-66939657.tmodns.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  24. # [04:49] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  25. # [04:52] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-BAADF108.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
  26. # [04:55] * Joins: surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP)
  27. # [04:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  28. # [05:02] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  29. # [05:07] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  30. # [05:07] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  31. # [05:46] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-6D599AA6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  32. # [05:46] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-6D599AA6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  33. # [06:13] * ehsan-busy is now known as ehsan-away
  34. # [06:45] * jaws is now known as jaws|brb
  35. # [06:51] * jaws|brb is now known as jaws
  36. # [07:39] * Joins: surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP)
  37. # [07:39] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  38. # [08:19] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  39. # [08:26] * Joins: surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP)
  40. # [08:26] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  41. # [08:30] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  42. # [09:17] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@239ACCE7.B7DD870C.79933D60.IP)
  43. # [09:20] * Quits: mdcurran (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au) (Connection reset by peer)
  44. # [09:41] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net) (Ping timeout)
  45. # [10:02] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com)
  46. # [10:02] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@239ACCE7.B7DD870C.79933D60.IP) (Quit: Leaving...)
  47. # [10:52] * Quits: ehsan-away (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP) (Input/output error)
  48. # [11:15] * Joins: sgimeno (santiago.g@A922400D.48362F18.BCC03455.IP)
  49. # [11:44] * Joins: Mic (Instantbir@moz-2C7B025C.superkabel.de)
  50. # [11:56] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@A17DC60D.20718EE9.79933D60.IP)
  51. # [11:58] * Quits: Mic (Instantbir@moz-2C7B025C.superkabel.de) (Ping timeout)
  52. # [13:36] <Stevef> anyone interested in an MSAA/IA2/UIA accessibility object inspection tool for windows, developed specifically for testing web pages, can try out http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2012/07/latest-aviewer-alpha-2012/ feedback welcome
  53. # [13:57] <Stevef> oh yeah and it also exposes HTML/ARIA stuff too
  54. # [14:07] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com)
  55. # [14:43] * Joins: ehsan-away (ehsan@BEDFFF26.EE049E25.8B035CD7.IP)
  56. # [14:44] * ehsan-away is now known as ehsan-busy
  57. # [15:09] * Joins: davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  58. # [15:09] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  59. # [15:10] <@davidb> heyo
  60. # [15:11] * Quits: sgimeno (santiago.g@A922400D.48362F18.BCC03455.IP) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
  61. # [15:26] <Stevef> davidb: hiya
  62. # [15:27] <@davidb> hi Stevef
  63. # [15:27] <Stevef> davidb: anyone interested in an MSAA/IA2/UIA/HTML/ARIA accessibility object inspection tool for windows, developed specifically for testing web pages, can try out http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2012/07/latest-aviewer-alpha-2012/ feedback welcome
  64. # [15:27] <@davidb> excellent
  65. # [15:28] <@davidb> is it accessible itself?
  66. # [15:28] <Stevef> davidb: in cased you missed it :-)
  67. # [15:28] <@davidb> I think I saw your tweet this morning :)
  68. # [15:28] <Stevef> davidb: it is pretty accessible yes
  69. # [15:29] <@davidb> can you select which interfaces you want to use? UIA on/off IA2 on/off?
  70. # [15:29] <@davidb> i see you can!
  71. # [15:29] <Stevef> davidb: usability with screen readers has improved have also added features that should provide much better access for SR users to info
  72. # [15:29] <Stevef> yes
  73. # [15:29] <@davidb> ok i'll notify the team and a few others
  74. # [15:30] <Stevef> davdib: sat down with victor last week while in SF he had some suggestions bugs, so have tried to implement improve, need feedback from users
  75. # [15:30] <@davidb> groovy
  76. # [15:33] <Stevef> davidb: also been progress on canvas hitregion stuff, some of it backward...
  77. # [15:35] <@davidb> I'm sadly not really able to follow it
  78. # [15:36] * Stevef have noticed
  79. # [15:36] <@davidb> I did ping key people at Mozilla though so they might have gotten more involved recently.
  80. # [15:36] <Stevef> no worries rich and I have got it
  81. # [15:37] <Stevef> found a major issue after rereading spec that got rich fired up
  82. # [15:40] <@davidb> which spec?
  83. # [15:40] <@davidb> whatwg?
  84. # [15:43] <Stevef> yes
  85. # [15:44] <Stevef> the backed regions can only reference limited set of elements read this http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0216.html
  86. # [15:44] * Joins: jimm (jmathies@moz-7F164CA1.pn.at.cox.net)
  87. # [15:45] <@davidb> why?
  88. # [15:45] <Stevef> so backed regions cannot reference any ARIA custome controls essentially
  89. # [15:45] <@davidb> actually i don't understand what "backed regions cannot reference" means
  90. # [15:45] <@davidb> what is a "backed region" - is that the region in the canvas?
  91. # [15:45] <Stevef> because thats how it is specced in whatwg and thats wht the proposal is to add the text into w3c canvas
  92. # [15:46] <@davidb> ok, well is it also true that an UA must not allow other backed element types and aria?
  93. # [15:46] <Stevef> ok you have a region a region can have a control() the control refrenbecs an id of a html element in the canvas sub dom
  94. # [15:46] <@davidb> as in MUST?
  95. # [15:46] <@davidb> ok
  96. # [15:47] <@davidb> where/who did the restriction come from?
  97. # [15:47] <Stevef> yes if the element is anything other than the few lsited browser must throw an error
  98. # [15:47] <Stevef> hixie
  99. # [15:47] <@davidb> that seems odd
  100. # [15:47] <Stevef> so rich has requested to have than constraint removed from the w3c spec, or rather not allow it to be added
  101. # [15:48] <@davidb> ok
  102. # [15:48] <@davidb> well it seems arbitrary to have it
  103. # [15:48] <Stevef> anyway as I said we are on it
  104. # [15:48] <@davidb> ok
  105. # [15:48] <Stevef> acting in my capacity as a mozillian ;-)
  106. # [15:49] <Stevef> not on behalf , just forwarding the mission
  107. # [15:49] <@davidb> :)
  108. # [15:49] <@davidb> that's what we all do
  109. # [15:50] <@davidb> my voice is not "Mozilla's"
  110. # [15:58] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  111. # [16:11] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347])
  112. # [16:15] * Joins: surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP)
  113. # [16:15] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
  114. # [16:36] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  115. # [16:37] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com)
  116. # [16:38] * Joins: scottgonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com)
  117. # [16:38] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com) (Connection reset by peer)
  118. # [16:40] * Quits: scottgonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com) (Connection reset by peer)
  119. # [16:40] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com)
  120. # [16:41] * Joins: scottgonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com)
  121. # [16:42] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  122. # [16:53] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@6C7DC739.EE691907.EBE09E3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  123. # [17:02] * Joins: Mic (Instantbir@moz-2C7B025C.superkabel.de)
  124. # [17:07] * Joins: jprmc (jprmc@moz-7F2FF3EB.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  125. # [17:07] * ChanServ sets mode: +o jprmc
  126. # [17:34] * Joins: hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net)
  127. # [17:34] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  128. # [17:39] <@davidb> tbsaunde: your keyboarding sounds loud and angry
  129. # [17:39] <@davidb> i can ever hear it through my headphones
  130. # [17:42] <tbsaunde> davidb: I'm not suprised, I'm raging at mercurial :|
  131. # [17:44] <tbsaunde> davidb: and and how long its taking me to get 765252 to build on windows / the stupid time I'm wasting deal with try
  132. # [17:44] * Quits: Mic (Instantbir@moz-2C7B025C.superkabel.de) (Ping timeout)
  133. # [17:45] <@davidb> ok
  134. # [18:00] * Quits: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  135. # [18:03] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  136. # [18:06] <tbsaunde> davidb: the machine under your desk is a windows box right?
  137. # [18:06] <@davidb> yep
  138. # [18:06] <@davidb> i have two
  139. # [18:06] <@davidb> the smaller one just has MATS
  140. # [18:06] <tbsaunde> just wondering if we can have an easier way to test the windows build than try
  141. # [18:07] <@davidb> i could build
  142. # [18:07] <tbsaunde> in the future
  143. # [18:07] <@davidb> you should have a log in
  144. # [18:07] <@davidb> we can set that up in future
  145. # [18:07] <tbsaunde> true, but ssh or something so you don't have to would be better
  146. # [18:07] <@davidb> right
  147. # [18:07] <@davidb> i currently use rdp
  148. # [18:09] <tbsaunde> I wonder if there's an accessible way to do that from linux
  149. # [18:09] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  150. # [18:11] <@hub> tbsaunde: there is a RDP client, but i'm not sure it works with accessibility technologies
  151. # [18:12] <tbsaunde> hub: I'm in the same state
  152. # [18:13] <tbsaunde> hub: iirc rdesktop claims to support forwarding sound, but I'm not sure I've seen it work
  153. # [18:17] * jimm is now known as jimm-lunch
  154. # [18:49] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  155. # [18:51] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-7CD7E5B1.tmodns.net)
  156. # [18:57] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-7CD7E5B1.tmodns.net) (No route to host)
  157. # [19:04] * jimm-lunch is now known as jimm
  158. # [19:13] * Quits: scottgonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com) (Quit: scottgonzalez)
  159. # [19:15] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com)
  160. # [19:22] * Quits: jimm (jmathies@moz-7F164CA1.pn.at.cox.net) (Quit: )
  161. # [19:35] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-E2FCA694.figuiere.net) (Ping timeout)
  162. # [19:55] * Joins: hub (hub@A5087023.2354C43D.D8E68FF6.IP)
  163. # [19:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
  164. # [20:26] * Quits: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
  165. # [20:26] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  166. # [20:27] * Joins: jimm (jmathies@moz-7F164CA1.pn.at.cox.net)
  167. # [20:28] * Quits: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
  168. # [20:28] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  169. # [20:28] <jimm> davidb: managed to get accessibility hooked up directly to metro, and have it sorta controlling the soft keyboard.
  170. # [20:28] <tbsaunde> jimm: nice
  171. # [20:28] <@davidb> neato!
  172. # [20:29] <@davidb> jimm: is your work all local?
  173. # [20:29] <jimm> tbsaunde: mostly your teams work that made it happen.
  174. # [20:29] <jimm> yes
  175. # [20:29] <jimm> so..
  176. # [20:29] <jimm> for starters, I need to get ITextProvider and IValueProvider implemented on text inputs.
  177. # [20:30] <@davidb> that makes me think...
  178. # [20:30] <jimm> do we have some sort of generalized text input wrapper I could add basic support to?
  179. # [20:30] <@davidb> hmm
  180. # [20:30] <jimm> or really my question is - where are text edits on all this access code? :)
  181. # [20:30] <@davidb> heheh
  182. # [20:30] <jimm> s/on/in
  183. # [20:30] <@davidb> we have an accessible text interface
  184. # [20:31] <@davidb> which unfortunately… is used by speech dication
  185. # [20:31] <@davidb> but anyways...
  186. # [20:31] <@davidb> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?find=%2Faccessible%2F&string=accessibletext
  187. # [20:31] <@davidb> ignore pivot stuff
  188. # [20:32] <@davidb> jimm: maybe you'd be interested in http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/msaa/ia2AccessibleText.cpp
  189. # [20:32] <jimm> yes, I think that might be what I'm looking for
  190. # [20:32] <@davidb> ok let me know if not
  191. # [20:33] <@davidb> also… editable text idl http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/public/nsIAccessibleEditableText.idl
  192. # [20:33] <tbsaunde> jimm: you, you probably can crib a bit from ia2AccessibleText / ia2AccessibleEditableText / ia2AccessibleHyperText
  193. # [20:33] <@davidb> heres the accessible text idl http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/public/nsIAccessibleText.idl
  194. # [20:33] <@davidb> but yeah what tbsaunde said
  195. # [20:33] <tbsaunde> but please don't use the idl, call methods on HyperTextAccessible directly
  196. # [20:34] <jimm> ok so anything that supports text input would implement have ia2AccessibleText implemented?
  197. # [20:34] <jimm> and ia2AccessibleEditableText I guess
  198. # [20:34] <tbsaunde> jimm: yeah, any accessible for a text input should implement that
  199. # [20:34] <jimm> ok, and that should also have uiaRawElmProvider now yes?
  200. # [20:35] <tbsaunde> jimm: yeah, you should be able to QueryService on it to get the tear off yes
  201. # [20:36] <jimm> yeah, ok. so AccessibleWrap wraps everything, and since that now supports the tear off I can override the default uiaRawElmProvider and provide something specific for text input.
  202. # [20:37] <jimm> I think anyway :)
  203. # [20:37] <tbsaunde> sounds about write
  204. # [20:38] <tbsaunde> you could also add it to uiaRawElmProvider, and only expose it if mAcc->Role() is a text input type role
  205. # [20:39] <jimm> hmm, ok.
  206. # [20:40] <jimm> should I try to avoid adding a lot of code to the base uiaRawElmProvider though?
  207. # [20:41] <tbsaunde> I'm not really sure, it might be worth not adding vtables that aren't always needed
  208. # [20:41] <jimm> ok, no big deal at this point since I'm still experimenting.
  209. # [20:42] <jimm> I'd like to try to into selection to see how that works within metro.
  210. # [20:42] <tbsaunde> jimm: as I see its just a trade off between over rides of QueryService and size of uiaRawElmProvider and added runtime type checks
  211. # [20:42] <jimm> yeah ok sounds good.
  212. # [20:42] <tbsaunde> jimm: ok, note we will probably need to address the issue Jammie mentioned about handling of embeded objects for that to always work right
  213. # [20:43] <tbsaunde> but for simple <input type="text"> you should be fine I think
  214. # [20:43] <jimm> starting out simple sounds good to me!
  215. # [20:48] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@moz-7F2FF3EB.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  216. # [21:30] * shorlander is now known as shorlander-away
  217. # [21:30] * Quits: shorlander-away (shorlander@moz-853043D6.dhcp.insightbb.com) (Quit: Quit)
  218. # [21:35] * Joins: shorlander (shorlander@moz-853043D6.dhcp.insightbb.com)
  219. # [22:05] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@A17DC60D.20718EE9.79933D60.IP) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
  220. # [22:41] * Quits: Bryen (Bryen@AD869AA5.7763354F.AD565587.IP) (Ping timeout)
  221. # [22:42] * jimm is now known as jimm-bbias
  222. # [22:43] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  223. # [23:02] * jimm-bbias is now known as jimm
  224. # [23:12] * Joins: Bryen (Bryen@AD869AA5.7763354F.AD565587.IP)
  225. # [23:16] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  226. # [23:16] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-44AB6E75.nc.res.rr.com) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
  227. # [23:45] * Joins: Mic (Instantbir@moz-AB5132FD.superkabel.de)
  228. # Session Close: Sat Jul 28 00:00:00 2012

The end :)