/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-09-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Sep 04 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  32. # [02:53] <@firebot> sam.tosborne@googlemail.com changed the Component on bug 788050 from Untriaged to Keyboard Navigation.
  33. # [02:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788050 maj, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Navigating page using keyboard fails - Firefox 16
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  64. # [05:35] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 788080 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  65. # [05:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788080 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, container-foo object attribute should expose the closest match
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  79. # [06:42] <@tbsaunde> surkov: do you like HasNumericValue() or HasNu,mValue() better as a name?
  80. # [06:42] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I thought about that but IA2 uses VARIANT what means it can be non numeric values
  81. # [06:43] <@surkov> XUL and HTML doesn't allow that but I'm not sure about ARIA
  82. # [06:43] <@surkov> afaik
  83. # [06:46] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'm pretty sure aria only allows numbers
  84. # [06:47] <@surkov> tbsaunde: then it should be ok
  85. # [06:47] <@tbsaunde> also, the interface it tells you is supported is double Currentvalue() / double MaxValue() etc, which are clearly only numbers :)
  86. # [06:48] <@surkov> ok
  87. # [06:48] <@tbsaunde> surkov: as in you like it more?
  88. # [06:48] <@surkov> yes I do
  89. # [06:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  90. # [06:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: pererence between HasNumericValue / HasNumValue / HasNumberValue ?
  91. # [06:50] <@surkov> numeric I think
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  94. # [06:52] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
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  106. # [07:46] <@firebot> ewong3@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 657999 on bug 767755.
  107. # [07:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767755 nor, --, ---, ewong3, NEW, Re-implement IsPrimaryForNode() using an Accessible::mFlags bit
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  112. # [08:03] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 657999 on bug 767755.
  113. # [08:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767755 nor, --, ---, ewong3, NEW, Re-implement IsPrimaryForNode() using an Accessible::mFlags bit
  114. # [08:12] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 658001 on bug 777603.
  115. # [08:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777603 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, move some nsAccessibilityService methods into layout/
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  118. # [08:21] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted feedback for attachment 658001 on bug 777603.
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  121. # [08:40] <@firebot> ewong3@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 658005 on bug 767755.
  122. # [08:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767755 nor, --, ---, ewong3, NEW, Re-implement IsPrimaryForNode() using an Accessible::mFlags bit
  123. # [08:43] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 658005 on bug 767755.
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  137. # [09:48] <@surkov> Jamie: hi
  138. # [09:51] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 686821 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  139. # [09:51] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 658015 on bug 686821.
  140. # [09:51] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 686821 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  141. # [09:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686821 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, "level" object attribute not present on headings while tab is in background
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  148. # [10:26] <Jamie> surkov: hi. Sorry, was afk
  149. # [10:26] <@surkov> hi, Jamie, a quick question. Do you ignore the subtree of invisible accessible?
  150. # [10:26] <@surkov> i.e. can invisible accessible contain visible accessibles?
  151. # [10:28] <Jamie> surkov: Currently, no, but in terms of what *should* be done, this is a controversial question
  152. # [10:28] <Jamie> surkov: For the most part, I'd think it makes sense for invisible nodes to also ahve invisible descendants. This is what our object navigation code currently does
  153. # [10:29] <Jamie> surkov: However, there are some cases in HTML where this isn't logical
  154. # [10:29] <@surkov> Jamie: example is <div><div style="position:absolute: left: 100px; top: 100px">hello</div></div>
  155. # [10:29] <Jamie> surkov: as a result, our Gecko browse mode code doesn't do this
  156. # [10:30] <@surkov> in that example, should the outer div has invisible state (because it has zero size) or not?
  157. # [10:31] <Jamie> surkov: If it helps, our current Gecko browse mode code treats a node as visible if it has non-0 width and height, or if both are 0, a non-0 child count
  158. # [10:31] <@surkov> hm, it's extra argument but not the answer :)
  159. # [10:32] <Jamie> surkov: I'm tempted to say it shouldn't, but I should perhaps discuss it with Mick as well.
  160. # [10:32] <@surkov> Jamie: ok, I'll file a bug then
  161. # [10:32] <@surkov> and cc you
  162. # [10:32] <Jamie> surkov: thanks. sorry I can't give you a straight answer; it's unfortunately a bit of a controversial topic
  163. # [10:33] <@surkov> Jamie: we all often don't have straight answers :)
  164. # [10:35] <Jamie> surkov: The core issue is that subtree invisibility is a really great optimisation
  165. # [10:35] <@surkov> agree
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  168. # [10:36] <Jamie> surkov: MSDn seems to suggest the whole subtree should be invisible: "If a client application is navigating through an IAccessible tree and encounters a parent object that is invisible, Microsoft Active Accessibility will not expose information about any possible children of the parent as long as the parent is invisible." http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd373609%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
  169. # [10:36] <Jamie> However, MSDN says lots of weird stuff about offscreen and invisible, so... :(
  170. # [10:36] <@surkov> yes
  171. # [10:37] <Jamie> surkov: it may also be worth asking opinions on the ia2 list. It's a bit off-topic, but at least there are other AT devs there other than Mick and me
  172. # [10:38] <@surkov> true but only you and Pete are active there nowadays :)
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  174. # [10:42] <Jamie> surkov: heh, that's true too
  175. # [10:42] <Jamie> surkov: <cynical> Unfortunately, the AT industry doesn't actually like to collaborate on standaridsation.
  176. # [10:42] <Jamie> standardisation*
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  178. # [10:44] <@surkov> Jamie: perhaps because they are commercial and it's another way to get users
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  181. # [10:46] <Jamie> surkov: That excuse isn't relaly good enough imo, but that's a pointless discussion :)
  182. # [10:46] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 750954 from --- to WORKSFORME.
  183. # [10:46] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 750954 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
  184. # [10:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=750954 nor, --, ---, hub, RESO WORKSFORME, Regression: Accessibility: Mac OS X's 'speak selected text' speaks contents of text fields, not sele
  185. # [10:47] <@surkov> Jamie: agree
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  188. # [10:53] <@marcoz> Hi all!
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  190. # [10:55] <@surkov> hi, marcoz
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  196. # [11:37] <icaaq> hi, I'm doing some testing on responsive images and right now I have a <noscript><img src="foo.png" alt="test"/></noscript> where I in js replace the noscript with a img (based on the one inside of noscript, but with a adjusted size) can you see any a11y problem with this approach?
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  200. # [11:47] <@surkov> icaaq: what does replace no script with img mean, can you give code snippet?
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  204. # [11:53] <icaaq> surkov: right now i'm just doing this with jquery https://gist.github.com/26d96e7fbafd70bb9d21
  205. # [11:53] <@surkov> icaaq: ok, what markup do you get in the end?
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  207. # [11:54] <icaaq> surkov: the same as in the comment, just a different src-attribute
  208. # [11:56] <@surkov> icaaq: if you mutate the DOM tree and change src attribute on img then it should be handled well on a11y site
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  210. # [11:56] <icaaq> great!
  211. # [11:57] <icaaq> surkov: thanks
  212. # [11:57] <@surkov> yw
  213. # [11:57] <@surkov> icaaq: we aren't free from bugs but it seems it's quite usual thing for the web
  214. # [11:57] <@surkov> so it should be ok
  215. # [11:58] <@surkov> :)
  216. # [11:58] <icaaq> (y)
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  259. # [15:00] <@marcoz> Good day all!
  260. # [15:00] <@davidb> heyo
  261. # [15:04] <@davidb> eeejay: if you managed a screencast today, let's link to it from dev meeting notes
  262. # [15:10] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
  263. # [15:10] <@davidb> hi MarcoZ, was just looking at my schedule… want to reschedule our 1:1
  264. # [15:10] <@davidb> since i was off yesterday
  265. # [15:10] <@marcoz> davidb: Didn't see anything from eeejay regarding the screen cast videos. To me it sounded like he said he can start working on these earliest today again. I doubt that'll be done before the dev meeting. :) But I might have misunderstood.
  266. # [15:11] <@davidb> that's fine
  267. # [15:11] <@davidb> i just wanted to leave a ping/reminder in channel
  268. # [15:11] <@marcoz> davidb: Do you have time to talk this morning? I don't have much, except one topic. :)
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  270. # [15:12] <@davidb> interesting
  271. # [15:12] <@davidb> how about in 25 minutes?
  272. # [15:12] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ^
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  274. # [15:13] * @davidb wants to hit send on a couple emails
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  276. # [15:15] <@marcoz> davidb: Hm, I just got a call from a friend who is in town, a web dev and strong a11y evangelist, who'll be here in around 20 minutes. I want to take the opportunity to show him some stuff we've been working on.
  277. # [15:16] <@davidb> MarcoZ: ok Skype me - i'm heading to phone room
  278. # [15:16] <@marcoz> Cool!
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  284. # [15:41] <@davidb> hi surkov
  285. # [15:41] <@surkov> hi, davidb
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  288. # [15:47] <@davidb> MarcoZ: are you opposed to creating a Facebook account for testing a11y?
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  294. # [16:13] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ping
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  298. # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> davidb: hi
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  308. # [16:58] <@marcoz> davidb: Regarding your question w.r.t Facebook, our a11y or theirs? I mean, what would be the benefits? I ditched the account for a reason. ;)
  309. # [16:59] <@davidb> yeah - PM'ed ya
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  312. # [17:06] <aish> ehsan: Hi I am Aish, I would like to work on the bug Bug 784739 - Switch from NULL to nullptr . Could you help me with it?
  313. # [17:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=784739 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Switch from NULL to nullptr
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  315. # [17:15] <ehsan> aish: sure... but I'm a bit busy right now..
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  317. # [17:15] <ehsan> what do you need help with?
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  319. # [17:18] <aish> ehsan: i am really interested in helping u guys fix bug 784739. but i am unsure how to actually get started.. could you please guide me?? im kind of still new here.. :)
  320. # [17:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=784739 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Switch from NULL to nullptr
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  322. # [17:20] <@davidb> aish: a good place for help is #introduction
  323. # [17:20] <@davidb> aish: have you built FF? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Simple_Firefox_build
  324. # [17:21] <@davidb> aish: when ready to post a patch https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Developer_Guide/How_to_Submit_a_Patch
  325. # [17:21] <aish> davidb: yup I just fixed one bug recently
  326. # [17:21] <@davidb> oh good!
  327. # [17:22] <@davidb> aish: I'm not sure this bug will be interesting for you… it is more about find and replace.
  328. # [17:23] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  329. # [17:24] <ehsan> aish: is there any particular reason why you want to work on this bug? the work involved here is a bit daunting, and it also requires a fair amount of familiarity with our code base...
  330. # [17:25] <ehsan> aish: I can suggest another bug if you're interested
  331. # [17:25] <@davidb> aish: I concur with ehsan here.
  332. # [17:25] <@firebot> andrew.quartey@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 767755 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  333. # [17:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767755 nor, --, ---, ewong3, ASSI, Re-implement IsPrimaryForNode() using an Accessible::mFlags bit
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  336. # [17:27] <aish> davidb: I am still not as familiar with the entire process as I would like to be. So I thought I will try to work on another simple bug so that I will get a hang of it :)
  337. # [17:28] <@davidb> aish: that bug is unwieldy IMO.
  338. # [17:30] <aish> davidb: I will find another bug to work on..thank you for the help :)
  339. # [17:30] <ehsan> aish: have you seen http://www.joshmatthews.net/bugsahoy/ ?
  340. # [17:30] <ehsan> aish: that's a tool which you can use to find interesting and simple bugs to work on
  341. # [17:31] <aish> ehsan: yup..found this bug from there..am now back on that website again
  342. # [17:32] <ehsan> aish: great! please let me know if you need help
  343. # [17:32] <aish> ehsan: thanks :)
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  345. # [17:39] <@marcoz> OK, depending on when the next uplift from inbound happens, I can test the possible impact of bug 767755 tomorrow or on Thursday. The last patch broke JAWS, and I was not re-asked for feedback. Should be interesting. ;)
  346. # [17:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767755 nor, --, ---, ewong3, ASSI, Re-implement IsPrimaryForNode() using an Accessible::mFlags bit
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  349. # [17:43] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: are you thinking of another bug? I'm pretty sure nobody ever asked you about that patch
  350. # [17:44] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think marcoz meant that bug about ISimpleDOMNode tearing off
  351. # [17:45] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, that would make more sense
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  353. # [17:52] <@marcoz> surkov: tbsaunde: Yeah you're right, I mixed that one up. The bug numbers are quite similar. Sorry 'bout that!
  354. # [17:53] <@surkov> ah, you operate on bug numbers :)
  355. # [17:54] <@davidb> we don't want to break jaws.
  356. # [17:55] <@davidb> i'm confused.
  357. # [17:55] <@davidb> ehsan: what is for lunch?
  358. # [17:56] <ehsan> davidb: not sure
  359. # [17:56] <@davidb> ehsan: something quick maybe
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  363. # [18:01] <@marcoz> surkov: Partly has to do with the fact that I don't even understand the bug summary of that tear-off one. ;) That's a concept I never learned at computer science school in the 1990s.
  364. # [18:01] <@surkov> I see :)
  365. # [18:02] <@surkov> anyway your memory is fantastic, I never remember any single bug number
  366. # [18:02] <@marcoz> surkov: Yeah I believe the tear-off one is bug 767756, which is quite similar. ;)
  367. # [18:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767756 nor, --, ---, andrew.quartey, NEW, try implementing ISimpleDOMNode with a tear off
  368. # [18:03] <@surkov> yep
  369. # [18:06] <eeejay> davidb, marcoz, morning. i got a screencast. uploading now
  370. # [18:06] <@davidb> groovy
  371. # [18:07] <eeejay> firefox os screencast
  372. # [18:07] <eeejay> that is what you meant, right davidb?
  373. # [18:07] <@davidb> yes
  374. # [18:11] <@marcoz> eeejay: Fantastic!
  375. # [18:11] <eeejay> i got the tts to be pretty snappy. i think
  376. # [18:12] <@marcoz> eeejay: Yay! Is this for sharing? I mean outside the dev meeting?
  377. # [18:12] <eeejay> marcoz, probably not. i did it late last night, it is very raw
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  380. # [18:15] <@marcoz> eeejay: OK!
  381. # [18:20] * @marcoz watches.
  382. # [18:20] <@marcoz> eeejay: Wow, I'm impressed, this is really snappy!
  383. # [18:20] <@davidb> good stuff
  384. # [18:21] <@davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/2012-09-04#Accessibility
  385. # [18:24] <eeejay> k. i'm off for coffee/commute
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  389. # [18:31] <@firebot> virgil.dicu@softvision.ro changed the Component on bug 787978 from Untriaged to Keyboard Navigation.
  390. # [18:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=787978 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Copy, Cut & Paste options (Cmd C, X & V, respectively) are not operating (either keyboard command or
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  405. # [19:51] <@davidb> hi hub
  406. # [19:53] <@hub> hi
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  415. # [20:21] <@davidb> can't believe i said eyes-shut
  416. # [20:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: oh? heh
  417. # [20:23] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah, just describing how one might experience Eitan's screencast
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  427. # [21:02] <@davidb> hub: what is the "Firefox reset the field" bug?
  428. # [21:03] <@hub> a firefox / bugzilla long lasting integration bug
  429. # [21:04] * @davidb nods
  430. # [21:13] * Joins: brambles (xymox@BEAF826B.60A88EF4.C3FEB593.IP)
  431. # [21:15] * Quits: brambles (xymox@BEAF826B.60A88EF4.C3FEB593.IP) (Ping timeout)
  432. # [21:16] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  433. # [21:17] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  434. # [21:19] <eeejay> tada! https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Android
  435. # [21:20] <@davidb> formidable!
  436. # [21:26] <@davidb> me links it https://wiki.mozilla.org/Special:WhatLinksHere/Accessibility/Android
  437. # [21:27] * Joins: brambles (xymox@BEAF826B.60A88EF4.C3FEB593.IP)
  438. # [21:28] * Quits: brambles (xymox@BEAF826B.60A88EF4.C3FEB593.IP) (Ping timeout)
  439. # [21:33] <@hub> awesonme
  440. # [21:36] <@davidb> I think when it is finally resolved I might have bug 777603 bound into a hardcover and sell it at $35.45 a copy.
  441. # [21:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777603 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, move some nsAccessibilityService methods into layout/
  442. # [21:36] * @davidb continues bugmail
  443. # [21:40] * Joins: brambles (xymox@BEAF826B.60A88EF4.C3FEB593.IP)
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  445. # [21:42] * @davidb meanders to eyes-free for a bit
  446. # [21:44] <@davidb> heh tl:dr somehow firefox a11y doesn't suck on android!
  447. # [21:44] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Ping timeout)
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  458. # [22:36] <@davidb> ok peace out
  459. # [22:36] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
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  466. # [22:51] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
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  476. # [23:43] <@hub> eeejay: I did the mistake to enable the screen reader in b2g
  477. # [23:43] <@hub> now I'm stuck
  478. # [23:43] <eeejay> hub, oops!
  479. # [23:43] <eeejay> hub. on the device?
  480. # [23:43] <@hub> yeah
  481. # [23:44] <@hub> the lock screen
  482. # [23:44] * Joins: brambles (xymox@BEAF826B.60A88EF4.C3FEB593.IP)
  483. # [23:44] <eeejay> you could reset your profile with make reset-gaia
  484. # [23:44] <@hub> I guess that's my only choice.
  485. # [23:44] <@hub> no biggie
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  490. # Session Close: Wed Sep 05 00:00:00 2012

The end :)