/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-10-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Oct 10 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  5. # [01:03] <eeejay> food shopping. bbiab
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  7. # [01:27] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gmail.com for attachment 669794 on bug 542039.
  8. # [01:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=542039 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, nsIFrame should return accessible type
  9. # [01:32] <@firebot> roc@ocallahan.org granted review for attachment 669794 on bug 542039.
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  20. # [03:13] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone"'
  21. # [03:13] * Set by davidb on Tue Aug 07 15:29:32
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  24. # Session Start: Wed Oct 10 03:28:03 2012
  25. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  29. # [03:29] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone"'
  30. # [03:29] * Set by davidb on Tue Aug 07 15:29:32
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  32. # [04:16] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 669794 on bug 542039.
  33. # [04:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=542039 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, nsIFrame should return accessible type
  34. # [04:16] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 542039 from nobody@mozilla.org to trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  35. # [04:54] <@surkov> hi, tbsaunde
  36. # [04:55] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it'd be nice to know if you are ok with approach of bug 741408 so I can put more code on the top
  37. # [04:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741408 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, figure out a way to deal with accessibles with no content
  38. # [05:11] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 745788 from --- to mozilla18.
  39. # [05:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745788 nor, --, mozilla18, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Intermittent a11y/accessible/treeupdate/test_imagemap.html | Test timed out
  40. # [05:11] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 782991 from --- to mozilla18.
  41. # [05:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782991 cri, --, mozilla18, surkov.alexander, NEW, Intermittent accessible/states/test_link.html | Test timed out, test_popup.xul | Can't get accessibl
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  48. # [08:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I guess I'm fine with the approach, I had some questions when I started looking earlier but I think there all implementation things
  49. # [08:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok
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  56. # [11:52] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 777288 from --- to mozilla17.
  57. # [11:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777288 cri, --, mozilla17, nobody, NEW, Intermittent crash in test_focus_browserui.xul | application timed out after 330 seconds with no out
  58. # [11:52] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 777288 from mozilla17 to ---.
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  60. # [11:56] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 779520 from ASSIGNED to NEW.
  61. # [11:56] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 779520 from --- to mozilla17.
  62. # [11:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=779520 enh, --, mozilla17, michaljev, NEW, Merge Accessible::Init into constructor
  63. # [11:57] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 779520 from mozilla17 to ---.
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  65. # [12:21] <@marcoz> surkov: ping?
  66. # [12:21] <@surkov> marcoz: pong
  67. # [12:21] <@marcoz> surkov: Hey! I have a question.
  68. # [12:21] <@surkov> hi, sure
  69. # [12:21] <@marcoz> surkov: I want to implement landmark support into AccessFu.
  70. # [12:22] <@surkov> good
  71. # [12:22] <@marcoz> surkov: For this to work correctly, I need to get the attributes from the current accessible, or one of its parents, to determine if I just entered into a landmark area, or switched it.
  72. # [12:22] <@marcoz> surkov: But I imagine that crawling the parent hierarchy via JavaScript is quite expensive, if combined with the attribute querying and parsing of the returned string.
  73. # [12:23] <@marcoz> surkov: So I was wondering whether we could introduce a new property to NSIAccessible which did this for us, e. g. get the current landmark, either from the accessible directly, or crawling up the parent chain for us and just return the landmark name as it finds it. AccessFu does not need to know which object, exactly, will have the landmark, only that it is within a landmarked area.
  74. # [12:23] <@surkov> marcoz: crawling by parents shouldn't be expensive, but object attributes getting might be, IA2 1.3 has a method to get interesting object attribute only. If we implement it then that's what you would use
  75. # [12:25] <@marcoz> surkov: How far out is IA2 1.3?
  76. # [12:25] <@surkov> marcoz: it doesn't matter, we can introduce nsIAccessible method (you can use and it can be used for IA2 1.3 implementation)
  77. # [12:25] <@marcoz> surkov: That would solve the problem, too.
  78. # [12:28] <@marcoz> surkov: How long would this take for an experienced Gecko hacker (meaning not exactly me) to implement? :)
  79. # [12:30] <@surkov> marcoz: it shouldn't be longer than couple days but I didn't think about technical side yet
  80. # [12:32] <@marcoz> surkov: OK. I'd guess that it would be a method taking a string, which is the desired object attribute's name, grab all attributes, parse, and return the value of the attribute if found.
  81. # [12:32] <@surkov> marcoz: that get rid all benefits of this method, it shouldn't grab all attributes it should calculate requested attributes
  82. # [12:33] <@surkov> marcoz: the implementation you talk about shouldn't take longer than couple hours :)
  83. # [12:35] <@marcoz> surkov: Ah, now I get you, it should avoid calculating the whole attribute set altogether! Interesting!
  84. # [12:35] <@marcoz> So it should benefit both the AT *and* us.
  85. # [12:35] <@surkov> yes
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  87. # [12:35] <fxa90id> :D
  88. # [12:35] <fxa90id> internet back :-)
  89. # [12:35] <fxa90id> hi surkov
  90. # [12:35] <@surkov> hi, fxa90id
  91. # [12:36] <fxa90id> I'll send you error output
  92. # [12:36] <@surkov> ok
  93. # [12:39] <fxa90id> I see you have changed something in #779520
  94. # [12:42] <fxa90id> Im deassigned :(
  95. # [12:57] <@surkov> fxa90id: you're still assignee :) the status was changed
  96. # [12:57] <fxa90id> oh
  97. # [12:57] <fxa90id> why its new ;p ?
  98. # [13:00] <@surkov> it's bugzilla bug when you change a bug that was open for a while
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  100. # [13:10] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 779520 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  101. # [13:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=779520 enh, --, ---, michaljev, ASSI, Merge Accessible::Init into constructor
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  106. # [14:31] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 799909 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  107. # [14:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=799909 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, decomify Accessible::GetNameInternal
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  113. # [15:07] <davidb|mobile> tbsaunde: traffic. might be late. plz start meeting on time anyways.
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  116. # [15:08] <@tbsaunde> davidb|mobile: ok, I thought you were wfh today?
  117. # [15:09] <davidb|mobile> tbsaunde: changed plans. don't ask.
  118. # [15:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb|mobile: ah, wasn't planning to ;)
  119. # [15:11] <davidb|mobile> :)
  120. # [15:14] <@marcoz> Hi davidb|mobile, tbsaunde! :)
  121. # [15:14] <davidb|mobile> hi
  122. # [15:14] <davidb|mobile> subway time...
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  131. # [15:48] <@davidb> once i got to the subway it was smooth sailing.
  132. # [15:48] <@davidb> heyo
  133. # [15:55] <@tbsaunde> davidb: hey
  134. # [15:55] <@davidb> hey, i'm here at my desk just catching up with surkov (backchannel for now)
  135. # [15:55] <@tbsaunde> yeah, once I saw you made it to the subway by 0925 I figured you'd be in by 1030
  136. # [15:55] <@tbsaunde> ok
  137. # [15:56] <@tbsaunde> want me to come over?
  138. # [15:56] <@davidb> nope
  139. # [15:57] <@tbsaunde> ack
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  141. # [16:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: in the name patch why did you just comment out an NS_ENSURE_SUCCESS instead of replacing it with something useful or just removing it?
  142. # [16:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I removed it, it was tmp things to check something
  143. # [16:22] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I see
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  145. # [16:22] <@tbsaunde> surkov: plans to make the nsTextEquivUtils stuff infallable / use the enum?
  146. # [16:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: not yet, those NativeName() stuffs I need for explicit-name bug
  147. # [16:24] <fxa90id> hi
  148. # [16:24] <fxa90id> tbsaunde,
  149. # [16:24] <fxa90id> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1863039 this happend after I remove from nsAccessNode getDocumentNode
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  152. # [16:31] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: you need to do accessible->Document()->DocumentNode() instead of accessible->GetDocumentNode() like I said in the description part 3
  153. # [16:33] <fxa90id> oh :)
  154. # [16:33] <fxa90id> ok
  155. # [16:33] <fxa90id> sorry
  156. # [16:33] <fxa90id> I made this other way
  157. # [16:33] <fxa90id> there is
  158. # [16:33] <fxa90id> doc = aAcc->Document();
  159. # [16:33] <fxa90id> and then doc->DocumentNode();
  160. # [16:33] <fxa90id> :-)
  161. # [16:33] <@davidb> that's useful if you need to null check doc
  162. # [16:34] <@davidb> how much doc could a null check doc if a null check could check doc?
  163. # [16:34] <@davidb> (sorry)
  164. # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: so your point is?
  165. # [16:36] <fxa90id> yes :)
  166. # [16:36] <fxa90id> no
  167. # [16:36] <fxa90id> what ? :D
  168. # [16:37] <fxa90id> if aAcc->Document would be null doc would be null too
  169. # [16:37] <fxa90id> then aAcc->Document()->DocumentNode(); would be null too ;<
  170. # [16:38] <fxa90id> then I shouldnt use doc->DocumentNode(); ? :D
  171. # [16:38] <fxa90id> if Im not checking if its null yes ;> ?
  172. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: I have no idea what your trying to ask, repharse?
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  174. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: if your asking if accessible->Document() is ever null no it never is
  175. # [16:40] <fxa90id> oh
  176. # [16:41] <@davidb> surkov: meeting time :)
  177. # [16:42] <fxa90id> yeah ! :D
  178. # [16:42] <@davidb> eeejay: yo
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  180. # [16:45] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  181. # [16:47] <fxa90id> noq you see :D
  182. # [16:47] <fxa90id> now
  183. # [16:47] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
  184. # [16:48] <@davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Meetings/2012-10-10
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  186. # [17:00] <@davidb> MarcoZ: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview
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  191. # [17:16] <eeejay> vidyo just froze up for me
  192. # [17:20] <@marcoz> And the new iPad version even continues to run after I close it via the home button. I have to turn it off in App Switcher to be able to end a call. LOL. I guess I'll submit a request for accessibility improvements of that. :)
  193. # [17:21] <fxa90id> why I dont hear anybody ? :(
  194. # [17:21] <@marcoz> davidb: Want to file that bug w.r.t. a b2g device?
  195. # [17:21] <@davidb> MarcoZ: yes
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  199. # [17:26] <@davidb> eeejay: have you thought about having an accessfu instance in each process?
  200. # [17:26] <@davidb> i can't recall if we discussed that or where it went
  201. # [17:26] <eeejay> davidb, not entirely
  202. # [17:26] <eeejay> davidb, thinking about it now
  203. # [17:27] <eeejay> davidb, there would need to be some interoperability
  204. # [17:27] <eeejay> to hand off the cursor control in linear nav
  205. # [17:27] <eeejay> davidb, i thought about moving tts to content processes
  206. # [17:28] <eeejay> davidb, but then we would lose the unified speech queue, and things would need to be coordinated not to speak over each other
  207. # [17:28] <@davidb> would that happen a lot?
  208. # [17:28] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I just though, are you reviewing several patches the same time?
  209. # [17:29] * vporof is now known as victorporof
  210. # [17:29] <eeejay> davidb, often enough, when switching apps.
  211. # [17:31] <@davidb> yeah
  212. # [17:31] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sort of, why?
  213. # [17:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: just curious :)
  214. # [17:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, well then you should know since I haven't answered several of your requests ;)
  215. # [17:33] <@davidb> MarcoZ: do you have that URL handy? with the wcag stuff for web dev?
  216. # [17:33] <@surkov> :) just checking
  217. # [17:35] <@davidb> surkov: FWIW I'd be okay with removing the UIA goal if we don't think we'll hit it this quarter due to other priorities.
  218. # [17:36] <@surkov> ok :)
  219. # [17:36] <@davidb> but… maybe tbsaunde could look at the text stuff… dunno how sadistic we feel.
  220. # [17:37] <@davidb> surkov: let's decide by end of week - let me know.
  221. # [17:38] <@surkov> davidb: tbsaunde is on core stuffs afaik
  222. # [17:38] <@davidb> he is.
  223. # [17:38] <@surkov> if tbsaunde wants to pick it up then I don't mind of course :)
  224. # [17:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I can probably find less painful ways to spend my time, but we'll see
  225. # [17:39] <@surkov> :)
  226. # [17:40] <fxa90id> yeah!
  227. # [17:40] <fxa90id> works
  228. # [17:40] <fxa90id> ok sending patch :)
  229. # [17:40] <fxa90id> surkov, tbsaunde will have another patch to review ;)
  230. # [17:41] <@surkov> davidb: that wasn't my idea to bring uia into goals, what kind of input do you need from me to decide?
  231. # [17:41] <@surkov> fxa90id: cool
  232. # [17:41] <@davidb> surkov: if you think it should be a goal.
  233. # [17:43] <@surkov> davidb: goals are sort of in parallel universe with me. I really can't promise that I can hit this goal myself (as any other) because I'm permanently distracted, I don't have other resources to do planning
  234. # [17:44] * fxa90id c++ skill: ++
  235. # [17:44] <fxa90id> :D
  236. # [17:44] <fxa90id> thanks to you all :)
  237. # [17:46] <@davidb> surkov: ok that's an interesting topic we can chat about sometime. I agree and disagree :)
  238. # [17:46] <@marcoz> davidb: D you mean this one? http://webaim.org/standards/wcag/checklist
  239. # [17:46] <@surkov> davidb: sure
  240. # [17:46] <@marcoz> davidb: Or this? http://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/WebDev_Recommendations
  241. # [17:46] <@davidb> the latter- thanks
  242. # [17:47] <@firebot> michaljev@o2.pl requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 669988 on bug 739130.
  243. # [17:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739130 nor, --, ---, michaljev, NEW, make GetDocumentNode() inline on nsDocAccessible
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  247. # [17:56] <satdav> marcoz, ping
  248. # [17:57] <satdav> habber, hi their I am david the person who has been emailing you
  249. # [17:57] <habber> satdav: Hey David!
  250. # [17:57] <satdav> davidb, do you mind christine who used to do the mozilla.org ux we have now got holly taking over her role
  251. # [17:57] <satdav> for accessibility
  252. # [17:58] <@davidb> satdav: do i mind christine?
  253. # [17:59] <satdav> you will know her
  254. # [17:59] <@davidb> Ah I see what you are asking. Yes I recall her.
  255. # [17:59] <@davidb> Thanks for the heads up re: Holly.
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  258. # [18:05] <satdav> habber, davidb is the head of accessiblity for products you might want to join the accessibility mailing list
  259. # [18:05] <@davidb> hi habber
  260. # [18:06] <@davidb> oh habber is Holly! aha
  261. # [18:06] <satdav> yes
  262. # [18:07] <@davidb> I'm not actually on the product management team
  263. # [18:08] * @davidb is hungry
  264. # [18:08] <habber> davidb: yep! I met you once before :)
  265. # [18:08] <satdav> davidb, if you are free at quearter to 2 pst today me and habber is going to have a meeting about mozilla.org sites
  266. # [18:08] <@davidb> i might be free then, but don't hold back if i can't make it
  267. # [18:09] <satdav> marcoz, you are welcome to come also
  268. # [18:09] <@davidb> i have some trades people coming to the house in late afternoon and i'll need to be there
  269. # [18:09] <@davidb> that's late for MarcoZ :)
  270. # [18:09] <satdav> yes its about quarter to 11 for me
  271. # [18:09] <satdav> but i am use to it
  272. # [18:09] <satdav> it will be quarter to 12 for him
  273. # [18:12] <@marcoz> satdav, habber, davidb: I will definitely not make that meeting.
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  276. # [18:12] <satdav> marcoz, what time is good for you
  277. # [18:13] <@marcoz> satdav: No, you guys meet, and if you need my help later, you can loop me in if needed.
  278. # [18:13] <satdav> OK
  279. # [18:14] <satdav> marcoz, think i am going to arrange it monthly thing
  280. # [18:15] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  281. # [18:16] <@marcoz> Off for dinner and evening rest, see you tomorrow!
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  284. # [18:27] <satdav> davidb, should i add holly on https://wiki.mozilla.org/Websites/Accessibility
  285. # [18:27] <satdav> also i was thinking we could add ken
  286. # [18:28] <satdav> habber, ping
  287. # [18:33] <habber> satdav: I don't mind being a contact person for when accessibility issues are discovered across moz.org. Feel free to put my name on the wiki.
  288. # [18:34] <satdav> OK
  289. # [18:36] <satdav> habber, do you have holly@mozilla.com setup or hollyh setup or just hhabstritt@mozilla.com
  290. # [18:36] <habber> I have habber@mozilla.com
  291. # [18:36] <satdav> OK
  292. # [18:36] <satdav> should i add that one
  293. # [18:37] <habber> yep! that works.
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  312. # [20:11] <@davidb> ok
  313. # [20:11] <@davidb> gotta run
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  315. # [20:15] * habber-away is now known as habber
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  319. # [20:52] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 800062 filed by radumstoica@gmail.com.
  320. # [20:52] <@firebot> Bug 800062 was not found.
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  323. # [21:25] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 669925 on bug 799909.
  324. # [21:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=799909 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, decomify Accessible::GetNameInternal
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  342. # [22:54] <satdav> habber, ping
  343. # [22:54] <satdav> I will be their in 2 seconds
  344. # [22:54] <habber> satdav: ok. You will beat me there :) I'll be there in 2 minutes.
  345. # [22:54] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  346. # [22:54] <satdav> OK
  347. # [22:54] <satdav> same
  348. # [22:55] <satdav> just going to login
  349. # [22:55] <satdav> well add my guest info
  350. # [22:56] <satdav> will be about 5 more minutes
  351. # [22:56] <satdav> as waiting for the all clear
  352. # [22:56] <satdav> as having a network issue the now
  353. # [22:56] <satdav> and doing some updates
  354. # [22:56] <satdav> to my machime
  355. # [22:56] <satdav> so might go a bit slow
  356. # [22:57] <satdav> habber, can you pm me the guest link
  357. # [22:57] <habber> satdav: ok… one second
  358. # [22:58] <satdav> OK
  359. # [22:58] <satdav> or link it in here
  360. # [22:58] <satdav> as its fine
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  366. # [23:34] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 669988 on bug 739130.
  367. # [23:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739130 nor, --, ---, michaljev, NEW, make GetDocumentNode() inline on nsDocAccessible
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  373. # [23:46] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  374. # Session Close: Thu Oct 11 00:00:02 2012

The end :)