/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-10-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 11 00:00:02 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  31. # [04:28] <@surkov> tbsaunde: h
  32. # [04:28] <@surkov> hi
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  35. # [04:51] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hey
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  37. # [05:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what's up?
  38. # [05:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: nothing specific actually
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  40. # [05:22] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ah
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  43. # [05:44] <@tbsaunde> surkov: wouldn't it make sense to rename the atk NativeRootAccessible thing?
  44. # [05:44] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I thougt about it but didn't come with nice name
  45. # [05:47] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how about GtkWindowAccessible or GtkDialogAccessible?
  46. # [05:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: might be good
  47. # [05:51] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, well that's what there for so seems reasonable to me
  48. # [05:52] <@tbsaunde> surkov: any reason ApplicationAccessible isn't a DumbAccessible?
  49. # [05:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it seems this name is not nice enough for application accessible :)
  50. # [05:55] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I don't think I understand
  51. # [05:57] <@surkov> tbsaunde: application accessible is not a stab needed to connect with our tree, it provides name, manages its children, it's a real accessible
  52. # [06:00] <@tbsaunde> surkov: true, I guess it could be a problem in future if ApplicationAccessible wants to provide something real where DumbAccessible returns 0 always for a method if we mark that method as final, but otherwise I don't see the problem other than sort the description being a little weird
  53. # [06:03] <@tbsaunde> it seems silly if you have accessible method that only does something for accessible with content you need to override it in 2 places
  54. # [06:05] <@surkov> as I said the name is not well suitable for it :)
  55. # [06:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, how you describe what its for sure
  56. # [06:07] <@tbsaunde> but it works and saves us crazy ness so I don't see why shouldn't live with a ackward description
  57. # [06:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: we might rename that dumb accessible to something else
  58. # [06:10] <@tbsaunde> surkov: like what?
  59. # [06:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: dunno, http://translate.google.com/?#ru/en/%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BB%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B0
  60. # [06:12] <@surkov> tbsaunde: btw, our dumb accessible is a leaf accessible
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  79. # [08:39] <fxa90id> surkov, hi
  80. # [08:39] <@surkov> fxa90id: hello
  81. # [08:39] <fxa90id> what should I update ?
  82. # [08:39] <fxa90id> my trunk ?
  83. # [08:42] <@surkov> fxa90id: unapply your patch and update sources
  84. # [08:42] <fxa90id> ok
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  86. # [08:59] <@firebot> michaljev@o2.pl requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 670275 on bug 739130.
  87. # [08:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739130 nor, --, ---, michaljev, NEW, make GetDocumentNode() inline on nsDocAccessible
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  113. # [12:02] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 637578 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  114. # [12:02] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 670318 on bug 637578.
  115. # [12:02] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 637578 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  116. # [12:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637578 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Expose how accessible name was determined
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  142. # [14:52] <@marcoz> Hi all!
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  145. # [15:02] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 740764 from nickyekaiqi@gmail.com to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  146. # [15:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740764 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Don't propagate ARIA attributes from iframe to document
  147. # [15:03] <@surkov> hi, marcoz
  148. # [15:11] <@marcoz> Hi surkov!
  149. # [15:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 670368 on bug 740764.
  150. # [15:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740764 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Don't propagate ARIA attributes from iframe to document
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  159. # [15:34] <@davidb> heyo
  160. # [15:36] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
  161. # [15:36] <@davidb> hi MarcoZ!
  162. # [15:37] <@marcoz> davidb: CSUN paper for Firefox OS presentation submitted this morning. The required "extended abstract" needed to be 500 words minimum. I felt like I put half our Firefox OS info in there to get to this number. :) Anyway, we'll see how it goes.
  163. # [15:38] <@davidb> I saw your tweet. It seems a silly requirement
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  165. # [15:39] <@marcoz> davidb: I couldn't agree more! I had what I had to say and what is important for people to decide whether they wanted to see this presentation, in half that number of words.
  166. # [15:40] <@marcoz> surkov: Thanks for morphing bug 771113 :)
  167. # [15:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=771113 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Implement Accessible::Attributes(const nsAString& aNames, nsAString& aValues)
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  169. # [15:53] <@marcoz> davidb: Stub installer works like a charm. This is now a true one-click install. Launch the stub, acknowledge the UAC dialog, be greeted by the welcome screen, hit Install. Download, install, and launch happen automatically. There is an options button, and all items read just fine.
  170. # [15:53] <@davidb> great
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  172. # [15:57] <fxa90id> Im baack :)
  173. # [16:04] * @tbsaunde mutters about c++'s typesystem
  174. # [16:04] <@tbsaunde> davidb: your wfh right?
  175. # [16:04] <@davidb> tbsaunde: nope
  176. # [16:05] <@davidb> I'm in the office
  177. # [16:05] <@tbsaunde> ah
  178. # [16:05] * habber-away is now known as habber
  179. # [16:05] <@marcoz> davidb: Why are we doing this stub installer thing? I mean it's Windows only, and today's bandwidths usually don't pose a problem downloading a 20 M file. Why this smaller footprint thing that then needs to download the rest anyway?
  180. # [16:05] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why doesn't the GetAttributes() function take the attribute to get as an atom?
  181. # [16:05] <@davidb> MarcoZ: it is based on hard data.
  182. # [16:06] <@marcoz> davidb: ?
  183. # [16:06] <@davidb> MarcoZ: there was data on cancelled downloads, when, etc.
  184. # [16:06] <@tbsaunde> davidb: that's so enlightening ;p
  185. # [16:07] <@tbsaunde> (re your first staement)
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  187. # [16:07] <@davidb> I'd only have my own hypotheses to offer.
  188. # [16:08] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: also probably more of an issue in third world and could in theory let us care about win64 someday if we choose to
  189. # [16:08] <@davidb> I heard there was data. I assume it was about cancelled downloads etc
  190. # [16:08] <@davidb> definitely true that not everyone has consistently fast internet speeds
  191. # [16:09] <@tbsaunde> man I might be turning into hub :-)
  192. # [16:09] <@tbsaunde> I was about to mutter about internet in canadia being crap
  193. # [16:10] <@davidb> i blame corp corruption
  194. # [16:12] <@marcoz> tbsaunde: hahah!
  195. # [16:12] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I haven't yet decided I think its time to call out the linch mob :)
  196. # [16:12] <@marcoz> davidb: Oh your guess may well be right there! :)
  197. # [16:12] <@marcoz> davidb: Somehow, briefly, this reminded me of an old Netscape installer that also did a stub and then downloaded the stuff one really needed. :)
  198. # [16:12] <@davidb> yeah I think the stub will definitely result in more completed downloads
  199. # [16:13] <@marcoz> It's definitely a nice experience, no superflous "finish" button to click, and overall feels very clean.
  200. # [16:15] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  201. # [16:18] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Resolution on bug 782991 from --- to FIXED.
  202. # [16:18] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 782991 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  203. # [16:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782991 cri, --, mozilla18, surkov.alexander, NEW, Intermittent accessible/states/test_link.html | Test timed out, test_popup.xul | Can't get accessibl
  204. # [16:19] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Resolution on bug 745788 from --- to FIXED.
  205. # [16:19] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 745788 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  206. # [16:19] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 745788 from mozilla18 to mozilla19.
  207. # [16:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=745788 nor, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Intermittent a11y/accessible/treeupdate/test_imagemap.html | Test timed out
  208. # [16:21] <@hub> tbsaunde: you just start to understand my feelings
  209. # [16:22] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-80D0ACBE.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  210. # [16:22] <@marcoz> Nice to see these intermittent oranges fixed!
  211. # [16:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: are you about 771113?
  212. # [16:25] <@davidb> marco, surkov: can you do a quick sanity check on the role changes in my WIP on bug 798492?
  213. # [16:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798492 nor, --, ---, dbolter, NEW, Deprecate/Remove our Windows MSAA BSTR accRole hack
  214. # [16:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I guess that's the number
  215. # [16:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'm thinking it'd be nice if it gets set of attributes
  216. # [16:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but we can keep those separate
  217. # [16:26] <@davidb> yeah, could do both
  218. # [16:29] <@marcoz> davidb: Looking....
  219. # [16:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I need your review for bug 799133, it's simple
  220. # [16:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=799133 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, certain web sites miss focus event on reload
  221. # [16:31] <@surkov> and it's first in my queue
  222. # [16:31] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  223. # [16:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what's wrong with just having multiple calls?
  224. # [16:32] <@tbsaunde> or maybe I guess the xpcom api can be a string and internally we use an array of atoms
  225. # [16:32] <@surkov> tbsaunde: out of process calls
  226. # [16:33] <@davidb> it shouldn't be a deciding factor, but telemetry for different calls would be interesting
  227. # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> surkov: it seems that should be delt with in ia2 layer
  228. # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> it could just call the internal method in a loop for each thing in the list
  229. # [16:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok
  230. # [16:35] <@tbsaunde> or we could do the array thing, but I think loop sounds nicer
  231. # [16:37] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@moz-C48D29C4.cable.teksavvy.com) (Input/output error)
  232. # [16:37] <@marcoz> davidb: They look fine to me.
  233. # [16:38] <@davidb> ok ty
  234. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I wonder if we can somehow return the attribute value through a callback instead of as a string
  235. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> but I don't think there's anything nice
  236. # [16:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: why?
  237. # [16:40] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, for one thing preserving type information so you can have attribute value as int
  238. # [16:41] <@surkov> I see, maybe later
  239. # [16:41] <@tbsaunde> which might allow saving islly computations for example we create internal utf16 string value then atk converts to utf8 iirc
  240. # [16:41] <@tbsaunde> yeah, I think it becomes easy once we kill gcc 4.4
  241. # [16:42] <@davidb> hub: congrats on Bug 777185
  242. # [16:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777185 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, Hook up content process crash reporting for B2G
  243. # [16:42] <@hub> davidb: thanks
  244. # [16:42] <@surkov> tbsaunde: sure it makes sense, btw, I suggested to use variant for iA2 for the same purpose :)
  245. # [16:42] <@hub> I need to do a double landing
  246. # [16:43] <@davidb> hub: you need aurora approval right?
  247. # [16:43] <@davidb> i didn't read the b2g landing mechanics wiki yet
  248. # [16:44] <@hub> davidb: no. I just need a basecamp-approval (automatic with the flag) and make sure I have a green
  249. # [16:44] <@hub> but this is b2g specifc code so we are good
  250. # [16:44] <@davidb> ok cool
  251. # [16:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ugh, those printfs :(
  252. # [16:49] <@surkov> :)
  253. # [16:49] <@surkov> more logging, sorry
  254. # [16:57] <@davidb> gotta reboot
  255. # [16:57] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  256. # [16:58] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 669171 on bug 799133.
  257. # [16:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=799133 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, certain web sites miss focus event on reload
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  271. # [17:42] <@davidb> tbsaunde: fwiw i have a lunch date with my sister.
  272. # [17:42] * @davidb trundles off
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  279. # [18:28] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 668753 on bug 761901.
  280. # [18:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=761901 nor, --, ---, jkitch.bug, NEW, HTML5 progress accessible should fire value change event
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  284. # [18:42] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  285. # [18:50] <satdav> davidb, was wondering if i can use the accessibility room once a month for website accessibility meetings
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  292. # [19:37] <satdav> davidb, ping
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  297. # [20:14] <satdav> hub, do you remmeber the one mozilla meetings
  298. # [20:20] <@davidb> satdav: pong
  299. # [20:20] <@davidb> satdav: you can use the room -sure
  300. # [20:20] <satdav> OK
  301. # [20:21] <satdav> davidb, was wondering if you know anything about getting the one mozilla guide changed
  302. # [20:21] <@davidb> satdav: nope
  303. # [20:21] <satdav> I am on about the grow mozilla guides
  304. # [20:21] <satdav> for the websites
  305. # [20:21] <@davidb> i don't know the history of future of the one mozills guide
  306. # [20:22] <@davidb> cool, I hope you can make good impact :)
  307. # [20:22] <satdav> well i am trying to get them changed
  308. # [20:22] <satdav> to make them a bit easier to read for sites
  309. # [20:22] <satdav> like the mozilla footers
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  314. # [20:27] <@davidb> ok
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  319. # [20:44] <@tbsaunde> davidb: any chance you understand the name tests? past the fact its some crzy xml setup?
  320. # [20:44] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i fully understood them once, and after careful meditation I presume I could again.
  321. # [20:45] * @davidb bio breaks
  322. # [20:45] <satdav> davidb, been asked if we have got any website tests for people to do accessibility wise
  323. # [20:47] <@tbsaunde> davidb: want to review the changes to them in bug 637578 ?
  324. # [20:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637578 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Expose how accessible name was determined
  325. # [20:51] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you could re-request me yeah
  326. # [20:51] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  327. # [20:51] <@davidb> i need to find a space of time
  328. # [20:52] <@davidb> satdav: we don't have anything written down, but worth asking MarcoZ when you see him.
  329. # [20:52] <satdav> OK
  330. # [20:52] <satdav> is their anyone else
  331. # [20:52] <satdav> I got told someone else does it
  332. # [20:52] <@davidb> just community people, like Steve Faulkner
  333. # [20:53] <@davidb> maybe Steven Donner?
  334. # [20:53] <@davidb> sorry Stephen Donner
  335. # [20:53] <@davidb> he's good, works for QA
  336. # [20:54] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok, maybe I'll just consume some boose and try and deal with it tonight
  337. # [20:54] <@tbsaunde> then
  338. # [20:56] <@davidb> i don't mind taking it off your plate
  339. # [20:56] <@davidb> but use the flags if you want me to
  340. # [20:56] * @davidb has enough book keeping
  341. # [21:00] <satdav> dont know steve faulkner
  342. # [21:00] <satdav> steven donner recommends marcoz
  343. # [21:00] <@davidb> yep that's right.
  344. # [21:00] <@davidb> anyone in accessibility eventually knows Steve Faulkner
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  349. # [21:08] <@davidb> crap… gotta be home by 4 before a meeting
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  358. # [21:13] <satdav_> what meeting
  359. # [21:13] <satdav_> also you going to the channel one today david
  360. # [21:13] * satdav_ is now known as satdav
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  363. # [21:46] <satdav> hub, ping
  364. # [21:47] <satdav> do you have moderator on the accessibility vidyo room
  365. # [21:50] <@eeejay> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/10/accessibility-features-in-firefox-on-android/
  366. # [21:51] <satdav> eeejay, you free at 3pm pst
  367. # [21:51] <@eeejay> satdav, no
  368. # [21:51] <satdav> or hub as need someone to come along from accessibility
  369. # [21:51] <satdav> also
  370. # [21:51] <satdav> i will be their but would be good for someone else
  371. # [21:51] <satdav> tbsaunde, what about your self
  372. # [22:01] <@tbsaunde> no, goto run out
  373. # [22:04] <satdav> OK
  374. # [22:05] <satdav> it was just regarding websites i know icaaq does them i believe also
  375. # [22:05] <satdav> so may ask him to join
  376. # [22:05] <satdav> icaaq, ping
  377. # [22:05] <icaaq> satdav: pong
  378. # [22:07] <satdav> icaaq, was speaking to the guys at #www and said you do the website accessibility
  379. # [22:10] <icaaq> satdav: well, I have done some things to make it better, yes. but i'm just a contributor :)
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  382. # [22:10] <icaaq> but was there a question or something :)
  383. # [22:10] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  384. # [22:11] <satdav> well what you doing at 3pm pst
  385. # [22:12] <icaaq> hmm, I need to look up what time that is going to be here
  386. # [22:14] <satdav> icaaq, what time one you in
  387. # [22:14] <icaaq> it's 2200 here now
  388. # [22:15] <icaaq> so it's like 2h away from now?
  389. # [22:15] <satdav> midnight their
  390. # [22:15] <satdav> as i am gmt -1
  391. # [22:15] <satdav> aka uk
  392. # [22:15] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
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  394. # [22:17] <icaaq> ok, then I've probably been looking at two episodes of sons of anarchy and cannot sleep anyway. what's happening at 3pm?
  395. # [22:18] <satdav> 3pm pst whats midnight for you I am having a meeting with jslater
  396. # [22:18] <satdav> if you want to join about the mozilla themes
  397. # [22:18] <satdav> for sites
  398. # [22:19] <icaaq> ok, cool
  399. # [22:20] <satdav> will pm yu
  400. # [22:50] <satdav> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/5hzTjgxGct
  401. # [22:50] <satdav> isthe ehterpad for the meeting
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  405. # [23:14] <icaaq> satdav: there are sme bugs regarding SUMO and a11y, should I post them on the etherpad?
  406. # [23:14] <satdav> if you want
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  409. # [23:17] <satdav> icaaq, post them on the etherpad
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  411. # [23:50] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 670318 on bug 637578.
  412. # [23:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637578 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Expose how accessible name was determined
  413. # [23:50] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  414. # [23:56] <satdav> icaaq, ping
  415. # [23:56] <icaaq> satdav: thanks
  416. # [23:56] <satdav> eeejay, is trev saunders anything to do with ken
  417. # [23:57] <satdav> icaaq, its still 10 minutes to go
  418. # [23:57] <satdav> but i am giving you notice
  419. # [23:57] <icaaq> ok
  420. # Session Close: Fri Oct 12 00:00:00 2012

The end :)