/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-10-12 / end
Options:
- # Session Start: Fri Oct 12 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
- # [00:04] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
- # [00:27] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Ping timeout)
- # [00:28] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net)
- # [00:30] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-14FDBE92.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout)
- # [00:34] <satdav> was good meeting with john slater their
- # [00:36] <icaaq> yes :)
- # [00:39] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, are you around?
- # [00:44] <satdav> eeejay, do you know if we have a tracking bug for accessibility websites
- # [00:44] <satdav> or ux
- # [00:44] <@eeejay> satdav, no
- # [00:46] <satdav> OK
- # [00:48] <satdav> going to add a doc on developers.mozilla.org
- # [00:48] <satdav> about accessiblity
- # [00:48] <satdav> was going to write one about testing for articles
- # [00:51] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
- # [01:14] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [01:15] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net)
- # [01:23] * Joins: nhirata_v2 (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net)
- # [01:23] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Ping timeout)
- # [01:24] * nhirata_v2 is now known as nhirata
- # [01:49] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
- # [01:57] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-80D0ACBE.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [02:00] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@AF3B4A8E.AB163232.79933D60.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [02:00] * Joins: victor (victorporo@AF3B4A8E.AB163232.79933D60.IP)
- # [02:25] * Quits: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Quit: nhirata)
- # [02:27] * Quits: satdav (satdav@moz-B6463CBE.cable.virginmedia.com) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [03:17] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [03:46] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Input/output error)
- # [04:02] * Joins: surkov (surkov@4378B362.7DD25AB3.33A1AC3C.IP)
- # [04:02] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
- # [04:02] * Quits: scottgonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-C35301AF.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: scottgonzalez)
- # [04:09] * shorlander is now known as shorlander-away
- # [04:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: hello
- # [04:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hey
- # [04:12] <@surkov> tbsaunde: bug 741408 is next on my queue
- # [04:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741408 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, figure out a way to deal with accessibles with no content
- # [04:12] <@surkov> :)
- # [04:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, let me see where we are
- # [04:14] <@surkov> sure, we need to sort of things
- # [04:14] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@moz-C48D29C4.cable.teksavvy.com)
- # [04:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, responded
- # [04:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: there are two more above
- # [04:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: isn't 'stub' word used commonly for these cases?
- # [04:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: not sure what you mean 2 more above
- # [04:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: 2 comments more
- # [04:20] <@tbsaunde> surkov: stub means something slightly different to me I think
- # [04:20] <@surkov> you might want to answer them
- # [04:20] <@tbsaunde> ok
- # [04:22] <@surkov> tbsaunde: stub usage: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/base/src/nsStubDocumentObserver.h#29
- # [04:22] <@surkov> it's different
- # [04:22] <@surkov> but not much
- # [04:26] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, I tend to say a stub is a partialy implemented thing that might need to be extended to work fully, dummy means more not real fake which seems more applicable here since these accessibles are sort of fakes
- # [04:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok
- # [04:34] * Quits: logbot (logbot@moz-58CB32ED.glob.com.au) (Ping timeout)
- # [04:35] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 739130 from --- to mozilla19.
- # [04:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739130 nor, --, mozilla19, michaljev, NEW, make GetDocumentNode() inline on nsDocAccessible
- # [04:37] * Joins: logbot (logbot@moz-58CB32ED.glob.com.au)
- # [04:44] * Quits: logbot (logbot@moz-58CB32ED.glob.com.au) (Ping timeout)
- # [04:45] * Joins: logbot (logbot@moz-58CB32ED.glob.com.au)
- # [04:51] * Quits: habber (habber@moz-FE4200AB.nyc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [04:54] * Quits: logbot (logbot@moz-58CB32ED.glob.com.au) (Ping timeout)
- # [04:58] * Joins: logbot (logbot@moz-58CB32ED.glob.com.au)
- # [05:00] <@tbsaunde> surkov: want anything else? I'm thinking about grabbing dinner, might be back after that
- # [05:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: not now, thank you :)
- # [05:33] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-CE0B60D0.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
- # [05:38] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-6B7D4671.nc.res.rr.com)
- # [05:47] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-CE0B60D0.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
- # [05:49] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ping
- # [06:04] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-CE0B60D0.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
- # [06:05] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-CE0B60D0.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
- # [06:06] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 669559 on bug 741408.
- # [06:06] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 670678 on bug 741408.
- # [06:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741408 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, figure out a way to deal with accessibles with no content
- # [06:08] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
- # [06:24] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Client exited)
- # [06:31] * Quits: mdcurran (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [06:31] * Joins: mdcurran (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au)
- # [06:43] * shorlander-away is now known as shorlander
- # [07:03] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@4378B362.7DD25AB3.33A1AC3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
- # [07:46] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-6B7D4671.nc.res.rr.com) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
- # [08:03] * Quits: victor (victorporo@AF3B4A8E.AB163232.79933D60.IP) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [08:03] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@AF3B4A8E.AB163232.79933D60.IP)
- # [08:12] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@moz-C48D29C4.cable.teksavvy.com) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [08:13] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@moz-C48D29C4.cable.teksavvy.com)
- # [08:26] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [08:30] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@moz-C48D29C4.cable.teksavvy.com) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [08:32] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@moz-C48D29C4.cable.teksavvy.com)
- # [08:33] * Joins: surkov (surkov@4378B362.7DD25AB3.33A1AC3C.IP)
- # [08:33] * ChanServ sets mode: +o surkov
- # [08:41] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@moz-C48D29C4.cable.teksavvy.com) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [08:43] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [08:43] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@moz-C48D29C4.cable.teksavvy.com)
- # [08:53] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za)
- # [09:03] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@moz-80D0ACBE.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
- # [09:06] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
- # [09:09] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za)
- # [09:18] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [09:28] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-EB1E9CC2.dip.t-dialin.net)
- # [09:28] * ChanServ sets mode: +o marcoz
- # [09:52] * Quits: @marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-EB1E9CC2.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [10:52] <icaaq> eeejay: good article on hacks!
- # [11:15] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-EB1E9CC2.dip.t-dialin.net)
- # [11:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +o marcoz
- # [11:17] * Joins: AleksandarS (Aleksandar@34E9EAA5.8384669D.90C2761D.IP)
- # [11:19] * Joins: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-E8616B11.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
- # [11:53] * Quits: a-865 (fmcz@moz-A5D13CA.cable.mindspring.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [SeaMonkey 2.13/20121003001518])
- # [11:57] * Quits: @marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-EB1E9CC2.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [12:01] * Quits: AleksandarS (Aleksandar@34E9EAA5.8384669D.90C2761D.IP) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.1/20121010144125])
- # [12:16] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
- # [12:33] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-80D0ACBE.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Ping timeout)
- # [12:33] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@moz-80D0ACBE.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
- # [12:53] * Joins: a-865 (fmcz@moz-A5D13CA.cable.mindspring.com)
- # [13:23] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Resolution on bug 739130 from --- to FIXED.
- # [13:23] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 739130 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [13:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=739130 nor, --, mozilla19, michaljev, NEW, make GetDocumentNode() inline on nsDocAccessible
- # [13:30] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hi
- # [13:49] <@surkov> hi, tbsaunde
- # [13:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: you were looking for me last night?
- # [13:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: for bug 741408 I guess
- # [13:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741408 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, figure out a way to deal with accessibles with no content
- # [13:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'm not sure about making app acc inherited from dummy acc
- # [13:51] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok, so what does Dummy implement that App needs to override?
- # [13:52] <@tbsaunde> I guess, I could be convinced if the really is a number of things, but that really suprises me
- # [13:58] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it seems dummy accessible don't need any since method, app accessible needs, for example, it needs Name(), children managing methods, it has state
- # [14:00] <@tbsaunde> surkov: not sure I understand the first part of that
- # [14:01] <@tbsaunde> and I'm pretty use State() on App is completely useless
- # [14:01] <@tbsaunde> s/use/sure/
- # [14:01] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I meant those dummy accessibles (like gtk window acc) don't need any real Accessible method
- # [14:02] <@tbsaunde> surkov: true
- # [14:02] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if AT keeps app acc after firefox was closed then state() reprots correct things
- # [14:02] <@tbsaunde> but it still overrides a bunch
- # [14:02] <@surkov> tbsaunde: like what?
- # [14:03] <@tbsaunde> surkov: wait how does that make any sense, if firefox is closed that object nolonger exists
- # [14:04] <@surkov> hm, that should be true, I wonder what happens with object that AT keep
- # [14:04] <@tbsaunde> surkov: Dummy overrides NativelyUnavailable, and a few other state things don't remember the details, you probably have the patch closer at hand than I
- # [14:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: Dummy should override more
- # [14:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'd suggest to finish that dummy accessible and then decide if we want app acc be a dummy one
- # [14:05] <@tbsaunde> surkov: also, nobody will ever mark that object with the defunct bit in mFlags, so I don't see how it would report correct things if it magically could
- # [14:05] <@surkov> it could do that previously I guess, when IsDefunct was virtual :)
- # [14:06] <@surkov> tbsaunde: anyway are you ok to not change app accessible for now? I'm not really certain it should be right
- # [14:06] <@tbsaunde> I thought then it didn't override IsDefunct() so it was always defunct
- # [14:06] <@tbsaunde> I guess so, though still not really happy with it
- # [14:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I know the secret: nobody use that application accessible :)
- # [14:07] <@tbsaunde> we should probably get that patch in soon to sort out whatever breaks
- # [14:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yeah, but after we just don't change things :)
- # [14:07] <@surkov> yep and I would continue to build patches over it: I need to make document accessible living without mContent
- # [14:08] <@tbsaunde> not sure what you mean after we just don't change things
- # [14:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ?
- # [14:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I meant app accessible wasn't inherited from dummy before the patch, so you shouldn't feel reallly bad that we don't make it a dummy one in this patch
- # [14:18] <@tbsaunde> true
- # [14:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: if that's it I'm going to shower and -> office
- # [14:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yep
- # [14:23] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-EB1E9CC2.dip.t-dialin.net)
- # [14:23] * ChanServ sets mode: +o marcoz
- # [14:31] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za)
- # [14:39] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-6B7D4671.nc.res.rr.com)
- # [14:41] * Quits: timeless (uid4015@moz-D63BDBD0.irccloud.com) (Input/output error)
- # [14:42] * Joins: timeless (uid4015@moz-D63BDBD0.irccloud.com)
- # [14:55] * Joins: habber (habber@moz-D385198D.nyc.res.rr.com)
- # [15:06] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@moz-C48D29C4.cable.teksavvy.com) (Input/output error)
- # [15:24] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
- # [15:28] * Quits: @marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-EB1E9CC2.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [15:29] * Joins: davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
- # [15:29] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
- # [15:30] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
- # [15:31] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
- # [15:33] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za)
- # [15:36] * Joins: marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-EB1E9CC2.dip.t-dialin.net)
- # [15:36] * ChanServ sets mode: +o marcoz
- # [15:43] <@davidb> heyo
- # [15:44] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
- # [15:44] <@davidb> hey hey
- # [15:58] <@davidb> marcoz: PM re: hardware
- # [16:00] * Joins: ehsan (ehsan@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP)
- # [16:03] * Quits: @eeejay (eeejay@254285E4.737470A8.A0C1B52F.IP) (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
- # [16:10] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 800905 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
- # [16:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=800905 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Web content in every tab but the first is no longer accessible
- # [16:11] <@marcoz> Sorry, Eitan, will have to keep you away from b2g yet once again.
- # [16:14] * Quits: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-E8616B11.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) (Ping timeout)
- # [16:21] * Joins: fxa90id (fxa90id@moz-22D7BD8F.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl)
- # [16:42] <@davidb> marcoz: sometimes i think you are canadian
- # [16:43] <fxa90id> HaHAHaHA
- # [16:43] <fxa90id> why its funny ?
- # [16:43] <@davidb> ?
- # [16:43] <fxa90id> sometimes i think you are canadian
- # [16:43] <fxa90id> its funny in your country ?
- # [16:44] <@davidb> not really
- # [16:44] <fxa90id> like canadian are not so smart or something
- # [16:44] <fxa90id> :<
- # [16:44] <fxa90id> oh
- # [16:44] <fxa90id> then
- # [16:44] <@marcoz> davidb: Oops, why do you think that?
- # [16:44] <fxa90id> greatings marcoz :)
- # [16:44] <@davidb> marcoz: because you said sorry for doing your job :)
- # [16:44] <fxa90id> oooo
- # [16:45] <fxa90id> canadian sorry for doing their job ?
- # [16:45] <@davidb> I'll be interested to see what web properties report on https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/10/accessibility-features-in-firefox-on-android/
- # [16:46] <fxa90id> this site looks like soviet union
- # [16:46] <fxa90id> :-)
- # [16:46] <@davidb> yeah we've had mixed feedback about that red star
- # [16:46] <fxa90id> ok Im shuting up ;p
- # [16:46] <fxa90id> I didnt pass exam for motorbike :(
- # [16:46] <fxa90id> and Im little unpolite
- # [16:47] <fxa90id> forgive me :(
- # [16:47] <@davidb> failing that test extends your life
- # [16:47] <fxa90id> ;p
- # [16:47] <fxa90id> I dont even have cash for motorbike :D
- # [16:48] <fxa90id> Ive truck license too ;p
- # [16:48] <fxa90id> but never sit in truck after passing exam :D
- # [16:48] * @davidb duct tapes fxa90id's mouth
- # [16:48] <@davidb> :)
- # [16:48] <fxa90id> ok ok Im getting quite
- # [16:48] <fxa90id> helping guys on #testday ;p
- # [16:48] <@davidb> all i heard just now was "mmmmmurmmmurm"
- # [16:49] <fxa90id> its because Im black ?
- # [16:53] * fxa90id is now known as fxa|shutdown
- # [17:05] <@marcoz> davidb: Well, I guess I know how difficult it can be to be pulled from one intense project to return to something earlier, having to reset the mind to focus on that, etc.
- # [17:17] * Quits: habber (habber@moz-D385198D.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: habber)
- # [17:24] <@davidb> marcoz: quite
- # [17:25] * Joins: nhirata (nhirata.bu@moz-6D599AA6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [17:51] * Quits: mdcurran (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au) (Ping timeout)
- # [17:55] * Joins: habber (habber@moz-FE4200AB.nyc.res.rr.com)
- # [17:56] * Joins: mdcurran (mick@moz-C48DC1F2.static.tpgi.com.au)
- # [18:14] * Quits: logbot (logbot@moz-58CB32ED.glob.com.au) (Ping timeout)
- # [18:17] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
- # [18:19] * Joins: logbot (logbot@moz-58CB32ED.glob.com.au)
- # [18:27] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [18:36] <@firebot> radumstoica@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 800062 from --- to INVALID.
- # [18:36] <@firebot> radumstoica@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 800062 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
- # [18:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=800062 enh, --, ---, nobody, RESO INVALID, No mnemonics for Bookmarks and History menu items.
- # [18:47] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
- # [18:47] <@marcoz> davidb: Just retweeted a nice praise-tweet from a Dutch Android user.
- # [18:55] <@marcoz> Off. Have a good weekend everyone!
- # [18:56] * Quits: @marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-EB1E9CC2.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [19:00] * Joins: hub (hub@2B660954.BAADDBDB.C3DDD137.IP)
- # [19:00] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
- # [19:00] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-CE0B60D0.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
- # [19:08] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-CE0B60D0.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
- # [19:09] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [19:20] * Joins: eeejay (eeejay@254285E4.737470A8.A0C1B52F.IP)
- # [19:21] * Parts: eeejay (eeejay@254285E4.737470A8.A0C1B52F.IP) (Ex-Chat)
- # [19:21] * Joins: eeejay (eeejay@254285E4.737470A8.A0C1B52F.IP)
- # [19:21] * ChanServ sets mode: +o eeejay
- # [19:27] * Quits: sawrubh (u6719@moz-160C58C6.com) (Client exited)
- # [19:28] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@4378B362.7DD25AB3.33A1AC3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
- # [19:34] * Quits: @hub (hub@2B660954.BAADDBDB.C3DDD137.IP) (Ping timeout)
- # [19:37] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-CE0B60D0.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
- # [19:39] * Joins: hub (hub@2B660954.BAADDBDB.C3DDD137.IP)
- # [19:39] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
- # [19:47] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 664459 on bug 794041.
- # [19:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794041 nor, --, ---, ttaubert, ASSI, nsAccDocManager shouldn't create a RootAccessible for the hiddenWindow
- # [19:48] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 664460 on bug 794041.
- # [19:54] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 670318 on bug 637578.
- # [19:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637578 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Expose how accessible name was determined
- # [19:55] <@davidb> that was easier than i thought
- # [19:56] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, but I still not at all convinced we want to do it
- # [19:57] <@tbsaunde> I probably won't r- it, but not really sure I'd r+ either
- # [19:57] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you worried about perf?
- # [19:58] <@tbsaunde> mostly 1 another special case
- # [19:58] <@tbsaunde> and 2 not really sure what happens when you open the new tab page
- # [19:59] <@tbsaunde> basically I don't see a reason we *should* do it
- # [20:01] <@davidb> tbsaunde: in general i like the idea of delaying processing for stuff that might never be presented
- # [20:01] <@tbsaunde> I'd argue it sort of is presented
- # [20:02] <@tbsaunde> in that we create pres shell etc for it
- # [20:02] <@davidb> existence in memory is not really presentation
- # [20:02] * @eeejay feels like there are things to be said for both approaches
- # [20:02] <@davidb> is it painted?
- # [20:02] <@davidb> eeejay: say them
- # [20:02] <@tbsaunde> no, are background tabs?
- # [20:03] <@eeejay> j/k, i have no idea what you guys are talking about :)
- # [20:03] <@davidb> lol
- # [20:03] <@davidb> tbsaunde: the reason background tabs are not painted is different
- # [20:03] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd say not really
- # [20:03] <@davidb> there are not painted due to occlusion essentially
- # [20:03] * Quits: @hub (hub@2B660954.BAADDBDB.C3DDD137.IP) (Ping timeout)
- # [20:03] <@davidb> it is an optimization
- # [20:04] <@tbsaunde> and this is just not painted because we haven't brought it to the forground yet
- # [20:04] <@tbsaunde> for what?
- # [20:04] * Joins: hub (hub@2B660954.BAADDBDB.C3DDD137.IP)
- # [20:04] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
- # [20:04] <@davidb> tbsaunde: painting
- # [20:04] <@tbsaunde> and why is it happening in a11y?
- # [20:04] <@davidb> umm we lost each other
- # [20:04] <@davidb> i was talking about a painting optimization
- # [20:05] <@tbsaunde> yes :p
- # [20:05] <@davidb> ok, starting over… what is the purpose of this special hidden window?
- # [20:05] <@tbsaunde> so, why does it make sense to have pres shell for this document, but not doc accessible?
- # [20:06] <@davidb> no idea why there is a pres shell
- # [20:06] <@davidb> but i need to get caught up on what this thing is again
- # [20:06] <@tbsaunde> ???
- # [20:07] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what is nsIXULWindow.isHiddenWindow used for?
- # [20:07] <@tbsaunde> presumably telling if the window you have is the hidden window?
- # [20:07] <@davidb> and what are examples of windows with this attribute?
- # [20:08] <@tbsaunde> there's only one the hidden window I assume
- # [20:08] * @tbsaunde doesn't know much about the hidden window
- # [20:08] <@davidb> doh
- # [20:08] <@tbsaunde> other than its a thing we put some random crap in for various random purposes
- # [20:08] <@davidb> hmmm i'd wander over and ask Enn if he was here
- # [20:09] <@davidb> random crap might be something to ignore
- # [20:09] <@davidb> and background tabs don't seem to be the same kind of thing
- # [20:10] <@tbsaunde> I claim they are, but anyway why don't you answer the question of why it makes sense to create pres shell but not doc accessible
- # [20:10] * @davidb checks to see who implemented this stuff
- # [20:10] <@davidb> i don't have an answer yet
- # [20:12] <@davidb> tbsaunde: an example of leaving hidden windows alone: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/xpfe/appshell/src/nsXULWindow.cpp#1002
- # [20:16] * Quits: @hub (hub@2B660954.BAADDBDB.C3DDD137.IP) (Ping timeout)
- # [20:17] <@tbsaunde> davidb: that doesn't really answer either of my questions
- # [20:17] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested needinfo from enndeakin@gmail.c om on bug 794041.
- # [20:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794041 nor, --, ---, ttaubert, ASSI, nsAccDocManager shouldn't create a RootAccessible for the hiddenWindow
- # [20:18] <@davidb> tbsaunde: does it intrigue you at least?
- # [20:19] <@davidb> because I'd settle for intrigue
- # [20:19] <@davidb> oh maybe there is a rule of thumb we haven't assimilated yet
- # [20:20] <@tbsaunde> not really sure what you mean
- # [20:20] <@davidb> so the rule of thumb set by Aaron way back was that we would expose things as closely to as they are exposed visually.
- # [20:20] <@davidb> which has in some cases misled some implementation (see visibility)
- # [20:21] <@davidb> I think we need to understand what these hidden windows are for, and correct the semantics of them (e.g. visibility) before arguing too much more.
- # [20:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'm not sure I'm a fan of that rule, but not sure I have a better one I follow other than "whatever seems sane"
- # [20:23] <@davidb> The rationale I often heard was that it allows sighted and non-sighted people to collaborate better.
- # [20:23] <@davidb> there is an etc.
- # [20:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: not sure what you mean there is an etc
- # [20:29] <@davidb> == there are more supportive arguments I don't want to type.
- # [20:30] <@tbsaunde> I see
- # [20:30] <@davidb> time to caffeinate
- # [20:30] * Joins: AleksandarS (Aleksandar@34E9EAA5.8384669D.90C2761D.IP)
- # [20:31] <@davidb> maybe i'll add that what is drawn to the screen involves a subterranean world of code paths that are heavily travelled… if we start doing things with other stuff there can be risk.
- # [20:32] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
- # [20:34] <@firebot> marioalv.mozilla@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 670881 on bug 797637.
- # [20:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797637 nor, --, ---, marioalv.mozilla, NEW, test_text_alg.html shouldn't print out gigantic strings of 'xxxxx's to the log
- # [20:34] * Quits: AleksandarS (Aleksandar@34E9EAA5.8384669D.90C2761D.IP) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.1/20121010144125])
- # [20:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so, the part I really object to is that doc accessible and pres shell are sort of same thing at some level of abstraction
- # [20:35] <@tbsaunde> but we want to treat them differently here and nobody wants to explain why that makes sense
- # [20:37] <@davidb> i haven't internalized that observation about pres shell and doc accessible
- # [20:37] <@davidb> so i'm probably the wrong person to explain
- # [20:38] <@tbsaunde> what's complicated about it?
- # [20:39] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you are saying they are sort of the same thing, and i guess we need to know what that means.
- # [20:39] <@tbsaunde> know what means?
- # [20:39] <@tbsaunde> err, know what what means?
- # [20:40] <@davidb> if i told you i thought apples and teabags are sort of the same and asked you why we aren't dipping apples in hot water and to explain it, it would be tricky.
- # [20:40] <@davidb> i need to understand the sort of comparison
- # [20:41] <@tbsaunde> davidb: so you would agree doc accessible and pres shell serve sort of same purpose?
- # [20:41] <@davidb> dunno
- # [20:41] <@tbsaunde> err, wouldn't sorry I can't type
- # [20:42] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what is the purpose of a pres shell?
- # [20:43] <@davidb> Once you've got me on board, understanding the relationship better, then we have the problem of understanding why a hiddenWindow has one.
- # [20:43] <@davidb> Which would bring us back to understanding if that is by design, or whatevs.
- # [20:43] <@davidb> So in any event I want to understand what the hiddenWindow is for.
- # [20:46] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [20:47] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I seem to remember khuey muttering about it being uses not use
- # [20:48] <@davidb> you mean useless?
- # [20:48] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd tend to say pres shell is for organizing frames and presentation type stuff for document
- # [20:48] <@tbsaunde> so css application although that's sort of style context I think
- # [20:48] <@davidb> ok so do we know why hidden window has one?
- # [20:49] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no, as in it several different uses that are completely unrelated
- # [20:49] <@davidb> tbsaunde: I PM'ed you btw
- # [20:49] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what is 'it' in your last comment?
- # [20:53] <@tbsaunde> the hidden window
- # [20:53] <@davidb> joy
- # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> yeah, my impression is its pretty hacky
- # [20:57] <fxa|shutdown> :-)
- # [21:12] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za)
- # [21:18] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
- # [21:19] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com cancelled review+ for attachment 664459 on bug 794041.
- # [21:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794041 nor, --, ---, ttaubert, ASSI, nsAccDocManager shouldn't create a RootAccessible for the hiddenWindow
- # [21:20] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com cancelled review+ for attachment 664460 on bug 794041.
- # [21:28] <@davidb> trying to go fast always slows me down
- # [21:28] * habber is now known as habber-away
- # [21:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, its ahrd to make yourself take time
- # [21:29] <@davidb> especially on friday when i'm looking at my todo list
- # [21:29] <@tbsaunde> I often fail at it
- # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I read in some book about world war 2 stuff somebody said something like there's always time to fuck it up, you need to make time to not
- # [21:32] <@davidb> heh
- # [21:33] <@davidb> also from the military: "slow is smooth, smooth is fast"
- # [21:34] * khuey is now known as khuey|food
- # [21:38] <@davidb> oh sure, now I notice khuey|food
- # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> davidb: fwiw I think I saw ttaubert blogging about being sacrificed to the wilds of gaia land
- # [21:39] <@tbsaunde> so he may be less interested in fixing that stuff for now
- # [21:39] <@davidb> oh that's quite possible
- # [21:40] <@davidb> that's unfortunate because tab preload is a snappy item
- # [21:50] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com)
- # [22:01] * habber-away is now known as habber
- # [22:07] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [22:10] * Joins: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za)
- # [22:10] * Quits: margle (margle@moz-2B7D1D8C.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
- # [22:25] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
- # [22:26] <@davidb> ok time to invert my matrix
- # [22:26] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
- # [22:29] * khuey|food is now known as khuey
- # [22:57] * Parts: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
- # [23:31] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-80D0ACBE.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [23:35] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 670678 on bug 741408.
- # [23:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741408 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, figure out a way to deal with accessibles with no content
- # [23:39] * Joins: hub (hub@moz-5FAA65BF.w86-195.abo.wanadoo.fr)
- # [23:39] * ChanServ sets mode: +o hub
- # [23:43] * Quits: @hub (hub@moz-5FAA65BF.w86-195.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout)
- # [23:45] * Quits: habber (habber@moz-FE4200AB.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: habber)
- # Session Close: Sat Oct 13 00:00:00 2012
The end :)