/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-10-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Oct 22 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  15. # [04:18] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 804040 filed by jamie@nvaccess.org.
  16. # [04:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=804040 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, State change event not fired when selection of ARIA tab changes
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  24. # [07:13] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 780854 from UNCONFIRMED to NEW.
  25. # [07:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=780854 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Overflow:hidden css class makes field labels not read by NVDA
  26. # [07:21] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 673460 on bug 797637.
  27. # [07:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797637 nor, --, ---, marioalv.mozilla, NEW, test_text_alg.html shouldn't print out gigantic strings of 'xxxxx's to the log
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  30. # [08:32] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 673494 on bug 770564.
  31. # [08:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770564 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, The more text in a textarea, the more time it takes to update the content
  32. # [08:35] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 770564 from nobody@mozilla.org to trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  33. # [08:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 780854 from --- to DUPLICATE.
  34. # [08:40] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 780854 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  35. # [08:40] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=780854 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Overflow:hidden css class makes field labels not read by NVDA
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  45. # [11:04] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 803112 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  46. # [11:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=803112 cri, --, mozilla19, eitan, VERI FIXED, [AccessFu] AccessFu completely broken starting in the 2012-10-18 nightly build
  47. # [11:06] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 802273 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  48. # [11:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=802273 nor, --, mozilla19, eitan, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Remove presentLastPivot antipattern
  49. # [11:07] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 802415 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  50. # [11:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=802415 nor, --, mozilla19, eitan, VERI FIXED, [AccessFu] Introduce better feedback when switching tabs and focusing on content area.
  51. # [11:08] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com changed the Status on bug 802999 from RESOLVED to VERIFIED.
  52. # [11:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=802999 nor, --, mozilla19, eitan, VERI FIXED, [AccessFu] Typed keys no longer echoed back by TalkBak in web content
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  62. # [14:18] <Stevef> hi all, looking for implementer feedback or any feedback on proposed new HTML element <main> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-extensions/raw-file/tip/maincontent/index.html
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  73. # [15:10] <@marcoz> Hi everyone!
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  82. # [15:40] <@davidb> hi surkov
  83. # [15:40] <@davidb> hi marcoz
  84. # [15:40] <@davidb> all
  85. # [15:40] <@surkov> hi, davidb
  86. # [15:42] <@marcoz> Hi davidb, surkov!
  87. # [15:43] <@surkov> hey, marcoz
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  90. # [15:43] <@davidb> what is our big crasher bug #?
  91. # [15:43] <@davidb> marcoz: you tweeted about a crash ^
  92. # [15:44] * @marcoz hopes tbsaunde can review that new startup crash soon. I'm getting mentions of it on Twitter, affects quite a number of people on the desktop.
  93. # [15:44] * @marcoz misplaced the number. 804something.
  94. # [15:45] <@marcoz> davidb: Yeah there's a new startup crash having to do with bug 740474.
  95. # [15:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740474 is not accessible
  96. # [15:45] <@davidb> marcoz: i don't seem to be able to view taht
  97. # [15:45] <@marcoz> Argh, what's the number….has to do with attribute queries.
  98. # [15:45] <@marcoz> davidb: Wrong number.
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  101. # [15:49] <@marcoz> davidb: the crash bug is bug 803873.
  102. # [15:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=803873 cri, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, startup crash in DocAccessible::Attributes
  103. # [15:50] <@marcoz> davidb: The other one I meant which causes this is bug 740764
  104. # [15:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=740764 nor, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Restrict object attributes inheritance through documents to ARIA attributes
  105. # [15:50] <@davidb> ok
  106. # [15:50] <@surkov> davidb: marcoz if it's issue then you can steal review request
  107. # [15:50] <@davidb> tbsaunde: you know about the review request on 803873 right?
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  109. # [15:51] <@davidb> shared node stuff
  110. # [15:52] <@davidb> interesting
  111. # [15:52] <@davidb> marcoz: great that ppatel uses nightly
  112. # [15:52] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, was going to deal with it this morning
  113. # [15:52] <@davidb> roger
  114. # [15:53] <@tbsaunde> and whatever other stuff I have to look at that I've forgoten
  115. # [15:53] <@marcoz> davidb: I agree, it's great he does!
  116. # [15:56] <Stevef> hey you lot of late risers: hi all, looking for implementer feedback or any feedback on proposed new HTML element <main> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-extensions/raw-file/tip/maincontent/index.html
  117. # [15:59] <@davidb> Stevef: bookmarked for later
  118. # [15:59] <@davidb> in general i don't have a problem with it
  119. # [16:00] <Stevef> davidb: cheers matey!
  120. # [16:00] <@davidb> not sure i'd mention the role=main advice
  121. # [16:00] <Stevef> davidb: which? the author advice?
  122. # [16:00] <@davidb> yeah
  123. # [16:00] <Stevef> davidb: will take that on board
  124. # [16:01] <@davidb> ok
  125. # [16:02] <Stevef> davidb: FYI took your ealrier advice about getting developer feedback, also got implementer feedback as well
  126. # [16:02] <@davidb> groovy!
  127. # [16:04] <@tbsaunde> Stevef: I'm not sure I see the purpose as opposed to role=main, but I don't really have an objection
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  129. # [16:09] <@marcoz> stevef: davidb: tbsaunde: It would be consistent with the other elements, like nav, to have a dedicated main element, but it is definitely more flexible to use role="main" since that can go on any type of element, although it would usually go on a container div.
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  135. # [16:15] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 673648 on bug 803873.
  136. # [16:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=803873 cri, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, startup crash in DocAccessible::Attributes
  137. # [16:16] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: I think I'd argue that flexibility is not a feature, and that uses of role=main should be alowed by the spec only where <main> would be allowed
  138. # [16:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: btw thoughts on bug 716865? the assertions it tries to remove cause a lot of log spam for me
  139. # [16:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=716865 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, atk's nsAccessibleWrap::FireShowHideEvent() makes bad assumptions about the event target
  140. # [16:27] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I don't recall details, but reading the bug description it seems accHide event has details about where in the tree the accessible was
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  142. # [16:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I think it wants to know what the parent was, and what index the removed thing had
  143. # [16:34] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but that info might be easy out of dated
  144. # [16:34] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do we have consumers?
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  146. # [16:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what do you mean consumers?
  147. # [16:36] <@tbsaunde> and what do you mean out of date?
  148. # [16:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: events consumer, current behavior is wrong I guess and nobody cares (except you because of exceptions)
  149. # [16:38] <@surkov> tbsaunde: let's you removed 1st child, but child at index 0 is not a removed child
  150. # [16:38] <@surkov> I'm not sure how those indexes are used
  151. # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, no consumer unless atk does something slower when parent is null / index -1
  152. # [16:38] <@surkov> ok
  153. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'm not sure what you mean you removed first child but child at index zero is not removed child
  154. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> that sounds like contradiction to me
  155. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> but maybe your a constructive logic person and don't believein the law of the excluded middle :)
  156. # [16:40] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if you removed a child but you report its index where it was placed at then when if somebody asks for a child at the given index then it's not child #1
  157. # [16:41] <@tbsaunde> surkov: of course its not the index it is currently at, otherwise it wouldn't have been removed
  158. # [16:41] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think atk assumes we do that in sync
  159. # [16:42] <@surkov> if a wild changes happens like several insertions and removals then index points somewhere in the sky
  160. # [16:42] <@tbsaunde> surkov: maybe? I'm not sure
  161. # [16:43] <@surkov> like remove/insert/remove/insert at the same index
  162. # [16:43] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'm not sure that's true either since it is still the index it was at in the parent when you made the change
  163. # [16:43] <@tbsaunde> I guess some of this depends on how we update atk tree
  164. # [16:44] <@tbsaunde> if we do it based on events then I think inde is always correct
  165. # [16:44] <@surkov> index was always correct :)
  166. # [16:45] <@surkov> you can't even to recreate the tree where that index was valid
  167. # [16:45] <@surkov> that makes this info sort of useless
  168. # [16:45] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I think you assuming the atk tree gets updated in sync with internal one
  169. # [16:46] <@tbsaunde> which I'm not convinced is the case
  170. # [16:46] <@surkov> ok, when atk tree is updated?
  171. # [16:47] <@tbsaunde> surkov: in part lazily and in part by HandleAccEvent() I think sort of iirc
  172. # [16:47] <@surkov> oh
  173. # [16:47] <@tbsaunde> I think its not terribly clear or organized just various things different people do to make things sort of work
  174. # [16:48] <@surkov> do we cache index in paret on atk?
  175. # [16:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: no
  176. # [16:50] <@tbsaunde> surkov: though atk might do it I think
  177. # [16:50] <@surkov> ok you should be careful with that code :)
  178. # [16:52] <@tbsaunde> surkov: true
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  184. # [16:59] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so I checked with mgorse, and it appears atk does use the index but only for children being added to tell where the child should go in the parent in a cache it keeps
  185. # [16:59] <@surkov> cool
  186. # [17:00] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, do you have worries about out of date info there?
  187. # [17:01] <@surkov> tbsaunde: nope, does -1 assert?
  188. # [17:04] <@tbsaunde> surkov: where?
  189. # [17:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: when you handle hide event on atk and fire signal (for index in parent)
  190. # [17:05] <@tbsaunde> surkov: the assert is on our side
  191. # [17:05] <@surkov> ok, so it can be removed I guess
  192. # [17:05] <@surkov> right?
  193. # [17:05] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes
  194. # [17:06] <@surkov> ok
  195. # [17:08] <@firebot> enndeakin@gmail.com requested review from jmathies@mozilla.co m for attachment 673382 on bug 782547.
  196. # [17:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782547 nor, --, ---, enndeakin, ASSI, Accessible focus not fired after dismissing modal OS dialogs (e.g. file chooser and print dialogs)
  197. # [17:12] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  198. # [17:13] <@marcoz> surkov: Can you land bug 803873 on inbound ASAP?
  199. # [17:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=803873 cri, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, startup crash in DocAccessible::Attributes
  200. # [17:14] <@surkov> marcoz: it's on try
  201. # [17:14] <@marcoz> surkov: Ah OK!
  202. # [17:17] <@davidb> marcoz: https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2012/10/18/firefox-marketplace-aurora-release-2/
  203. # [17:19] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: I suspect if you were trying to get it in tonights nightly you'd need to land it on m-c at this point
  204. # [17:19] <@tbsaunde> anyway
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  206. # [17:23] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 673175 on bug 612830.
  207. # [17:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612830 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, make HTML document accessible work even when there's no body
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  212. # [17:39] <@marcoz> davidb: Already tried it, and it works nicely. The marketplace site displayed on Firefox for Android is quite accessible. I also tried a few apps, and the runtime just works like a charm. Totally transparent to the user.
  213. # [17:39] * Parts: eeejay (eeejay@254285E4.737470A8.A0C1B52F.IP) (Ex-Chat)
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  216. # [17:39] <@eeejay> marcoz, cool!
  217. # [17:46] <@marcoz> eeejay: Yes this works really great! And the feedback one now gets when stuff reloads is very good as well.
  218. # [17:46] <@eeejay> marcoz, cool. glad we focused on android last week
  219. # [17:47] <@marcoz> eeejay: Yeah. We might need to evaluate which of the patches need backporting to Aurora aside from the ones we already have.
  220. # [17:47] <@eeejay> marcoz, yep..
  221. # [17:48] <@eeejay> marcoz, all accessfu-only patches are think are worth backporting
  222. # [17:48] <@eeejay> marcoz, but we really could do all of them
  223. # [17:50] <@marcoz> eeejay: OK, would you like to do the approval requests this time? You're more into the exact technical reasoning for them.
  224. # [17:51] <@eeejay> marcoz, yep. sounds good
  225. # [17:51] <@marcoz> eeejay: I can chime in if needed.
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  228. # [17:58] <@marcoz> Although I'm a bit scared about asking for 6 or 7 patch approvals at once, this is still the more wild mobile part of Firefox, not the rock-solid desktop one. So it'll be OK.
  229. # [18:01] <@marcoz> eeejay: Should you get to those requests today, and should channel triage approve them, I volunteer to land them tomorrow. I'll be gone for the rest of the week, presenting Firefox for Android and Firefox OS at an accessibility conference in Vienna, Austria.
  230. # [18:02] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 803873 from --- to mozilla19.
  231. # [18:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=803873 cri, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, ASSI, startup crash in DocAccessible::Attributes
  232. # [18:03] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@517042E9.EB0C4793.EBE09E3C.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  233. # [18:12] <@marcoz> eeejay: OK, eight bugs. :) Got all the patches as they were checked into central and can apply them to Aurora.
  234. # [18:14] <@eeejay> marcoz, cool, thanks :)
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  250. # [19:17] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 673177 on bug 612830.
  251. # [19:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612830 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, make HTML document accessible work even when there's no body
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  254. # [19:26] <fxa90id> Im baack! :D
  255. # [19:26] <fxa90id> did you miss me ?
  256. # [19:26] <@marcoz> OK, calling it a night. See you tomorrow!
  257. # [19:26] <fxa90id> see you too!
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  259. # [19:27] <@eeejay> fxa90id, hi :)
  260. # [19:27] <fxa90id> hi eeejay
  261. # [19:27] <fxa90id> :)
  262. # [19:27] <fxa90id> sup mozilla man ?
  263. # [19:31] <fxa90id> eeejay, ? :)
  264. # [19:31] <fxa90id> are you there ?
  265. # [19:31] <fxa90id> probably working hard
  266. # [19:32] <@eeejay> fxa90id, yep, head down. working hard :)
  267. # [19:32] <fxa90id> :)
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  283. # [20:32] <@firebot> New Firefox - Disability Access bug 804244 filed by jmaher@mozilla.com.
  284. # [20:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=804244 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, We assume fonts like DejaVu Serif exist on systems, this causes 2 checks to fail
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  293. # [21:17] <@hub> back
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  296. # [21:42] <@firebot> rail@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 804244 from --- to INCOMPLETE.
  297. # [21:42] <@firebot> rail@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 804244 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  298. # [21:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=804244 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INCOMPLETE, We assume fonts like DejaVu Serif exist on systems, this causes 2 checks to fail
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  302. # [22:05] <@davidb> hub: heyo
  303. # [22:07] <@davidb> hub: back in Van?
  304. # [22:07] <@hub> at the office, yeah
  305. # [22:08] <@davidb> hub: cool
  306. # [22:08] <@davidb> hub: what do you think about bug 791380?
  307. # [22:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=791380 nor, P1, ---, schien, NEW, Need on-phone equivalent of about:crashes
  308. # [22:09] <@davidb> hub: i'm not sure i understand every comment but...
  309. # [22:12] * @davidb comments in the bug
  310. # [22:14] <@hub> let me re-read
  311. # [22:17] <@hub> yeah security model and such
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  313. # [22:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: regarding bug 802050, is a11y always activated on red hat?
  314. # [22:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=802050 is not accessible
  315. # [22:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no clue
  316. # [22:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: why?
  317. # [22:24] <@davidb> tbsaunde: can you find out?
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  319. # [22:25] <@davidb> tbsaunde: can you email the reporter and find ask politely if he knows why a11y is instantiated?
  320. # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> davidb: why not just ask in the bug?
  321. # [22:25] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it can be personal
  322. # [22:25] <@tbsaunde> I guess its kind of off topic
  323. # [22:25] <@davidb> that too
  324. # [22:26] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'm curious any particular reason you want to know, or just aah why is a11y on davidb mode?
  325. # [22:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i'm wondering if there is any interplay of a11y with that bug, we might want to ask him to turn of a11y.
  326. # [22:27] <@davidb> if he has STR
  327. # [22:28] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i can ask in the bug
  328. # [22:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: given bz's comment I think its extremely unlikely
  329. # [22:30] <@tbsaunde> honestly I think bz's comment should be enough for someone who works pdf.js integration to just fix it
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  331. # [22:32] <@davidb> good
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  333. # [22:41] <@tbsaunde> davidb: do you still want to know about why a11y is on?
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The end :)