/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-10-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Oct 31 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  11. # [00:27] <@askalski> hi everyone :)
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  24. # [02:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: hi
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  28. # [02:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hi
  29. # [02:54] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I wanted to ping you about review for bug 733848
  30. # [02:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733848 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, REOP, Intermittent failures in a11y/accessible/name/test_markup.html | Can't get accessible for [object HT
  31. # [02:56] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I read it, is that supposed to be an actual fix, or just a work around?
  32. # [02:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it's mochitest fix
  33. # [02:57] <@surkov> it doesn't fix a problem
  34. # [02:58] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I guess I meant is behavior right and mochitest expects wrong things
  35. # [02:58] <@tbsaunde> because that didn't seem so, and you didn't say the patch was a work around
  36. # [02:59] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I can't be sure
  37. # [02:59] <@surkov> I don't know what that image gets recreated
  38. # [02:59] <@surkov> in general accessible recreation with no reason is not good for AT
  39. # [02:59] <@tbsaunde> surkov: are you planing to investigate it? it seems like that could be bad for users if image gets recreated for no reason
  40. # [03:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I don't know how to investigate that, stacks were broken
  41. # [03:01] <@tbsaunde> surkov: hm, even in debug? or does it never happen there?
  42. # [03:01] <@surkov> tbsaunde: see Eshan comment there
  43. # [03:01] <@surkov> I didn't see any useful log
  44. # [03:01] <@surkov> and now stacks were disabled
  45. # [03:03] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I see
  46. # [03:03] <@tbsaunde> can you try and reproduce locally?
  47. # [03:05] <ehsan> surkov: commented on the bug
  48. # [03:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: no
  49. # [03:05] <ehsan> surkov: basically, hide the stackwalking code behind #ifdef MOZ_PROFILING
  50. # [03:06] <@surkov> ehsan: ok, thanks!
  51. # [03:06] <ehsan> sure thing :)
  52. # [03:06] <@surkov> ehsan: do we have mochitest-other builds having profiling enabled?
  53. # [03:06] <ehsan> surkov: yeah, all m-c/m-i builds have them enabled
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  55. # [03:07] <@surkov> ehsan: good, so I reenable stack walking for them I thinik
  56. # [03:07] <@surkov> thanks again!
  57. # [03:07] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 676648 on bug 733848.
  58. # [03:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733848 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, REOP, Intermittent failures in a11y/accessible/name/test_markup.html | Can't get accessible for [object HT
  59. # [03:07] <ehsan> surkov: (http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/config/mozconfigs/macosx-universal/nightly#11 for mac, and parallel other mozconfigs for other platforms)
  60. # [03:07] <ehsan> surkov: yeah sounds good, sorry that I had to back you out!
  61. # [03:08] <@surkov> I see
  62. # [03:08] <ehsan> surkov: r=me on that if you need it :)
  63. # [03:08] <@surkov> ok :)
  64. # [03:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: it looks like we are missing that we should remove accessibles in bug 768243 which means my patch doesn't completely fix the assert ://
  65. # [03:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768243 is not accessible
  66. # [03:11] <@tbsaunde> but unless you have a reason not to I think I'll move that patch to another bug as a way to get rid of one use of InvalidateChildren()
  67. # [03:12] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I had concerns to that patch but sure I don't mind to move it to another bug
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  69. # [03:14] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what are you worried about?
  70. # [03:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I had a general concern when I don't understand what caused the behavior then I don't trust the fix
  71. # [03:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, forget about it trying to fix anything, and just consider it as a change that shouldn't effect behavior
  72. # [03:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you had failed mochitest?
  73. # [03:18] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I still need to debug since I had to keep working on finding out why we don't remove accessibles
  74. # [03:18] <@tbsaunde> but does something seem wrong with approach?
  75. # [03:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: iirc I mentioned that InvalidateChildren in UpdateChidren() fixed some accessible tree gaps, in other words we have bugs fixed by that UpdateChildren
  76. # [03:21] <@surkov> we'd need to find them (I hope that failed test is all cases of that)
  77. # [03:22] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'd say hidden not fixed :)
  78. # [03:22] <@surkov> but otherwise it' might be good
  79. # [03:23] <@tbsaunde> I don't think we can ever be sure we fixed all cases, if we can get it passing tests, then I think we sort of have to just try it and see what people complain about
  80. # [03:23] <@surkov> I need to think. Anyway I just wanted to see another approach (aka find insertion point) so that's probably why I don't meet it with open hands
  81. # [03:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: in practice it's very hard catchable bugs, people just gets annoyed
  82. # [03:24] <@surkov> sometimes people are able to reliable catch them after several months
  83. # [03:25] <@surkov> a11y is not fast for feedback
  84. # [03:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you know how I was impressed when jamie reported recently that context menus in text fields aren't accessible and that was regression from firefox 3.6
  85. # [03:26] <@surkov> nobody else reported that
  86. # [03:26] <@surkov> I realize maybe context menus aren't used a lot but couple years before report
  87. # [03:26] <@tbsaunde> surkov: true
  88. # [03:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'd be fine with finding the insertion point if someone suggests fast way to do it
  89. # [03:27] <@surkov> tbsaunde: in any case it shouldn't be slower to what we have now
  90. # [03:27] <@surkov> and by definition it must be faster what we do now
  91. # [03:28] <@tbsaunde> but I think we've both spent a bit of time on it and not really had any success, so I figure better to do something we know how to do today then wait and hope some day we'll be smarter
  92. # [03:28] <@surkov> because now we traverse whole subtree, if we search for insertion point then we should traverse part of subtree. Also that should be useful for hypertext offsets finding stuff
  93. # [03:28] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it makes sense
  94. # [03:29] * @surkov still builds new reorder event system
  95. # [03:29] <@surkov> I hope it will be a good reorg
  96. # [03:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: iI see, will that ever actually be done?
  97. # [03:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: every day I think that I need couple days to finish it, but in reality I don't work on it much
  98. # [03:30] <@surkov> and I get permanently distracted by smaller things
  99. # [03:30] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I see
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  102. # [03:43] <@tbsaunde> surkov: my current log is confusing (though I can clean it up if you want to read it) but it looks like what happens is we have doc like <body> <select> <option> <option> <form> </form> </option> </option> <optgroup> stuff </optgroup> </select> <select> stuff </select> </body> and then body.appendNode(form) is called
  103. # [03:44] <@surkov> it's strange
  104. # [03:44] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, that's the sort of thing you get from fuzzers :)
  105. # [03:44] <@surkov> right, like the web :)
  106. # [03:45] <@tbsaunde> apparently layout doesn't tell us form was removed from the option
  107. # [03:45] <@tbsaunde> I'm not really sure how to figure out other than walk through node.appendChild
  108. # [03:46] <@tbsaunde> and how I see something
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  116. # [04:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you need to file a bug and cc bz I think
  117. # [04:26] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, my initial readable test case doesn't work
  118. # [04:26] <@surkov> hm, ok
  119. # [04:27] <@tbsaunde> but once I have one and don't have luck with debugging a little I probably will ask him
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  122. # [04:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: any idea why the alert()s in http://paste.debian.net/205153/ never happen?
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  124. # [04:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: console shows anything?
  125. # [04:56] <@tbsaunde> surkov: console?
  126. # [04:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: error consoel
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  129. # [04:58] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, last time I tried that it didn't seem accessible, but seems to work this time
  130. # [04:58] <@surkov> tbsaunde: try to comment out the code by parts
  131. # [04:59] <@surkov> it's a good way when error console doesn't help and you don't have idea what's wrong
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  133. # [05:01] <@tbsaunde> surkov: actually, error console worked this time :)
  134. # [05:02] <@surkov> ok :)
  135. # [05:05] * sawrubh is now known as sawrubh|lectures
  136. # [05:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, error console says nothing about this one it appears no content gets inserted for the form under the option
  137. # [05:08] <@surkov> it sounds plausible
  138. # [05:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure, but for some reason it seems to work in test case
  139. # [05:10] <@tbsaunde> I guess I'll just play with it some tomorrow if you don't have ideas
  140. # [05:10] <@surkov> ok, I don't have :)
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  192. # [13:40] <@hub> hola
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  194. # [13:55] <@marcoz> Bonjour Hub!
  195. # [14:04] <@hub> marcoz: I was reading your blog about "accessible" web apps
  196. # [14:05] <@hub> and when you say that google apps only work with ChromeVox it just confirm my argument that chromevox is ill advised
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  202. # [14:17] <@marcoz> Hub: It is in line with Google's policy of providing specialised solutions for people with varying disabilities, instead of an all-inclusive design approach. And yes, i agree with you whole-heartedly that this is an ill-advised approach.
  203. # [14:19] <@hub> it is their master plan to turn Chrome into the next IE
  204. # [14:19] <@davidb> heyo
  205. # [14:22] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
  206. # [14:22] <@marcoz> hub: Yeah and they should know better than that! :(
  207. # [14:23] <@davidb> marcoz: did you confirm a spot with steve?
  208. # [14:23] <@marcoz> davidb: It's all set.
  209. # [14:23] <@davidb> great
  210. # [14:23] <@marcoz> davidb: I sent him DM yesterday, and within two minutes had a spot at the venue. He said he had kept a few spots open on purpose for cases like mine.
  211. # [14:26] <@marcoz> LOL! davidb: Seen' Raman's reply to eeejay? If I was cheaky, which I am never ever of course *ggg*, I could interpret this as "hey we have no idea yet, do something and we'll copy you".
  212. # [14:28] <@davidb> marcoz: not sure i read it that way… i wonder if raman is worried about patents
  213. # [14:28] <@davidb> damn it, i said the p word
  214. # [14:29] <@marcoz> davidb: Not sure. It really sounded like he was saying "innovate and if we like it we'll do the same".
  215. # [14:30] <@davidb> yeah i can see that interpretation as well
  216. # [14:39] <@marcoz> davidb: Re jmathies e-mail: Could you enter my nick beside one of those devices? You know, Google Docs and a11y….
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  219. # [14:58] <@davidb> marcoz: looking now...
  220. # [15:02] <@davidb> marcoz: long list… i'm sort of lost in it
  221. # [15:06] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'm headed to the office now, hopefully I getthere before the meeting starts
  222. # [15:09] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ok take care
  223. # [15:13] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Resolution on bug 612830 from --- to FIXED.
  224. # [15:13] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 612830 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  225. # [15:13] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 612830 from --- to mozilla19.
  226. # [15:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612830 nor, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, make HTML document accessible work even when there's no body
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  230. # [15:21] <@marcoz> Meeting in 5 minutes.
  231. # [15:24] <@davidb> yep
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  241. # [15:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 799133 from --- to FIXED.
  242. # [15:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 799133 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  243. # [15:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=799133 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, certain web sites miss focus event on reload
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  246. # [16:31] <@davidb> eeejay: are you ok to take bug 807315?
  247. # [16:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=807315 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] We spend 15ms running AccessFu.jsm on mobile startup
  248. # [16:31] <eeejay> davidb, yeah
  249. # [16:32] <@davidb> thanks
  250. # [16:51] <@davidb> marcoz: I'm going to try to catch jimm on IRC this afternoon
  251. # [16:51] <@davidb> re win 8 x86 devices
  252. # [16:52] <@davidb> marcoz: what do you think of this one http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Twist-S230u-12-5-Inch-Ultrabook/dp/B009MPBFNU
  253. # [16:53] * @davidb hunts food
  254. # [16:58] <@marcoz> davidb: That sounds just like the one I need. Small, not too heavy, and has all the features required.
  255. # [17:03] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  259. # [17:57] <@marcoz> OK, calling it a day! See you tomorrow!
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  267. # [19:07] <@davidb> ok, time to change location
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  275. # [19:38] <eeejay> ok, time to change location
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  289. # [20:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
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  292. # [21:39] <@davidb> ok time for costumes
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  301. # [22:21] <@hub> completely reproducable crash with a11y
  302. # [22:22] <@hub> #0 Accessible::GetActionRule (this=0x7fffd9da5400) at /home/hub/source/mozilla/src/accessible/src/generic/Accessible.cpp:3095
  303. # [22:22] <@hub> mContent is NULL
  304. # [22:22] <@hub> and dereferenced
  305. # [22:34] <@tbsaunde> hub: that's interesting file a bug with a test case?
  306. # [22:43] <@hub> I will.... tomorrow. I have a temp fix that is easy. But I didn't have the time.
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  310. # [23:19] <fxa90id> trick or treat :D
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  315. # Session Close: Thu Nov 01 00:00:00 2012

The end :)