/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-11-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Nov 08 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  10. # [00:59] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 786566.
  11. # [00:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=786566 nor, --, ---, jkitch.bug, NEW, ARIA menuitem acting as submenu should have PARENT_MENUITEM role
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  17. # [01:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 733848 from --- to FIXED.
  18. # [01:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 733848 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  19. # [01:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 733848 from --- to mozilla19.
  20. # [01:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733848 nor, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Intermittent failures in a11y/accessible/name/test_markup.html | Can't get accessible for [object HT
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  32. # [02:10] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 809688 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  33. # [02:10] <@firebot> Bug 809688 was not found.
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  39. # [02:51] <tbsaunde> surkov: hey
  40. # [02:51] <@surkov> hi, tbsaunde!
  41. # [02:51] <@surkov> tbsaunde: progress on bug 807911?
  42. # [02:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=807911 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, whittle mutation events processing
  43. # [02:53] <tbsaunde> surkov: I'm looking at it
  44. # [02:53] <tbsaunde> just trying to figure out what all the bits do
  45. # [02:54] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, I looked at the not flattening selects thing some, one thingwe'll need to figure out is how select interface should work for nested options
  46. # [02:56] <tbsaunde> surkov: I think I can see two ways of doing it, one is that as it is now you just select items in select list and it handles digging into optgroups
  47. # [02:56] <tbsaunde> the second is that if you want to select something in an opt group then you need to ask the optgroup to do the selecting
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  49. # [03:02] <tbsaunde> surkov: we also need to figure out how to fix HTMLOptionAccessible::GetComboBox / GetSelect() since there could be a opt group in the middle
  50. # [03:02] <tbsaunde> that I have a plan for though
  51. # [03:03] <tbsaunde> surkov: but I'd like to know what you want to do with the selection api there
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  53. # [03:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: our selection api implementation is not consistent but I think it should deal with hierarchical structures
  54. # [03:06] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  55. # [03:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but I afraid Jamie is right and we need to think about temporary lightweight solution
  56. # [03:07] <tbsaunde> surkov: to be clear you think AddItemToSelection(1) in <select> <option> </option> <optgroup> <option> </option> </optgroup> </select> on the select should select the second option under the optgroup?
  57. # [03:07] <tbsaunde> surkov: you mean about the we might break jaws part?
  58. # [03:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yes if we are 0 based
  59. # [03:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yes
  60. # [03:07] <@surkov> and if I read right then we break NVDA
  61. # [03:08] <tbsaunde> ugh
  62. # [03:08] <@surkov> breaking NVDA is not a problem if Jamie fixes it
  63. # [03:08] <tbsaunde> surkov: true, I didn't catch that when I read his comment, but I might have read it when tired or something
  64. # [03:09] <tbsaunde> I'm not sure I like staying consistant with a dumb API just for jaws
  65. # [03:10] <@surkov> jaws is still a leader on the market
  66. # [03:10] <@surkov> anyway, I want to say we can't just change things tomorrow
  67. # [03:10] <@surkov> and anyway we need to prototype and try it, perhaps there's no much problems :)
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  69. # [03:12] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok, well, I really doubt I'm more than a day away from something that passes tests
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  71. # [03:13] <tbsaunde> surkov: for fast things how do you feel about that really hacky if (aContainer->Tag() == select) { ... } thing I suggested?
  72. # [03:14] <@surkov> tbsaunde: let me look if we can have something nicer than nested UpdateTree calls
  73. # [03:15] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  74. # [03:15] <tbsaunde> surkov: what I'm suggesting there is nested calls but only in the case of selects since the way our selects currently work you sort of have to update multiple subtrees
  75. # [03:16] <@surkov> yes, I understand that
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  77. # [03:32] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox17 to wontfix on bug 733848.
  78. # [03:32] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com set status-firefox18 to wontfix on bug 733848.
  79. # [03:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733848 nor, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, Intermittent failures in a11y/accessible/name/test_markup.html | Can't get accessible for [object HT
  80. # [03:33] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, did you actually figure out what the cause of 733848 was? or are you just guessing that its getting reframed without a reason
  81. # [03:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I didn't, just fixed mochitest so it doesn't fail anymore
  82. # [03:33] <tbsaunde> surkov: if you still don't know I have an idea for debugging on linux I can try
  83. # [03:34] <tbsaunde> guess I'll do that then
  84. # [03:34] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that'd be awesome
  85. # [03:34] <@surkov> cool
  86. # [03:35] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok, just wanted to check you hadn't done more debugging I didn't know about
  87. # [03:36] <@surkov> oj
  88. # [03:36] <@surkov> ok
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  104. # [05:11] <Jamie> surkov: Hi! :) Hope you're doing well.
  105. # [05:11] <tbsaunde> Jamie: hi :)
  106. # [05:11] <@surkov> hi, Jamie, I am. are you? )
  107. # [05:11] <Jamie> surkov: Quick question: is it ever possible for an object with IAccessibleTableCell to have a role other than cell, column header or row header?
  108. # [05:11] * Jamie is doing well too.
  109. # [05:11] <@surkov> Jamie: I think yes
  110. # [05:12] <Jamie> damn. :(
  111. # [05:12] <@surkov> we don't hide accessible table interface on non table roles
  112. # [05:12] <@surkov> I think if you do <td role="button"> then this button has button role and implements table cell interface
  113. # [05:12] <Jamie> ah, true
  114. # [05:12] <Jamie> actually, there was a bug discussing things like that
  115. # [05:13] <Jamie> Okay. Just means i can't do the optimisation I wanted to do :)
  116. # [05:13] <@surkov> I don't know whether this is correct but it seems it's just part of presentational table
  117. # [05:13] <tbsaunde> surkov: wouldn't that be <tble role=button> ? since we only create table cell if in table context
  118. # [05:14] <@surkov> tbsaunde: <table role="button" is different I think. I don't recall what we create in that case
  119. # [05:14] <@surkov> I think we just do not create accessible for td elements at all
  120. # [05:15] <tbsaunde> surkov: maybe so, I don't really either
  121. # [05:17] <Jamie> Basically, NVDA's current code doesn't handle table updates correctly, so you only get correct row/col info if the whole table is rendered
  122. # [05:18] <Jamie> Just means I need to query for IAccessibleTableCell on every object as we render
  123. # [05:18] * Jamie hopes that isn't too expensive :)
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  125. # [05:20] <tbsaunde> Jamie: well, *I* wouldn't blaim you if you consider us exposing table interface on accessible without table role a bug and just ignored it
  126. # [05:20] <Jamie> :)
  127. # [05:21] <Jamie> Interestingly, it looks like I query for Table even if it's not table role, so I guess it's nothing new; just one more query like that :)
  128. # [05:21] <tbsaunde> on the other hand its not really clear to me that getting the role is much faster than QueryInterface
  129. # [05:21] <Jamie> true, though the difference is that I already have the rolre regardless (for other reasons)
  130. # [05:21] <tbsaunde> ah
  131. # [05:51] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 809744 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  132. # [05:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809744 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [meta] implement svg accessibility features
  133. # [05:58] <tbsaunde> surkov: looking into svg stuff?
  134. # [05:59] <@surkov> tbsaunde: sort of
  135. # [06:00] <tbsaunde> surkov: oh? any particular reason?
  136. # [06:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: just because we aren't accessible :)
  137. # [06:00] <tbsaunde> ok :)
  138. # [06:01] <tbsaunde> surkov: have you thought about the optgroup stuff?
  139. # [06:01] <@surkov> I don't want Firefox be a bottleneck on accessible usage of svg
  140. # [06:01] <@surkov> I didn't look yet
  141. # [06:01] <tbsaunde> surkov: sure
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  143. # [06:34] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 628649 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  144. # [06:34] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 679541 on bug 628649.
  145. # [06:34] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 628649 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  146. # [06:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=628649 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, nsCoreUtils::IsXLink looks either incorrect or obsolete
  147. # [06:38] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 809751 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  148. # [06:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809751 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, HTML table related elements of presentational table having global ARIA attributes must be accessible
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  150. # [07:02] <@surkov> Jamie: ping
  151. # [07:03] <@surkov> Jamie: in case if you missed a question: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=757774#c24
  152. # [07:03] <@firebot> Bug 757774 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/states/test_link.htm
  153. # [07:03] <@surkov> :)
  154. # [07:05] <tbsaunde> surkov: I seem to have a patch making selects not flat that passes all tests :)
  155. # [07:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it means only one thing: we have bad testing for selects and we need to improve it ;)
  156. # [07:06] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you have windows machine, no?
  157. # [07:09] <tbsaunde> surkov: I have a vm around
  158. # [07:09] <tbsaunde> surkov: bad maybe, but there is certainly some testing unlike other things
  159. # [07:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you have all those windows screen readers?
  160. # [07:10] <tbsaunde> no, only nvda
  161. # [07:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: then you need try server build to feed it to marco
  162. # [07:11] <@surkov> davidb|mobile doesn't sleep, davidb|mobile watches
  163. # [07:11] <tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, was sort of planning on doing that
  164. # [07:11] <@surkov> ok, cool
  165. # [07:13] <tbsaunde> surkov: for the events stuff some reason you don't add the new refptrs to cycle collection stuff?
  166. # [07:14] <tbsaunde> on the other hand I'm not sure it makes sense to tell the cycle collector about them at all
  167. # [07:14] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think I forgot about them
  168. # [07:14] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I have same feeling
  169. # [07:14] <@surkov> but we keep them as strong pointers
  170. # [07:14] <tbsaunde> surkov: sure, but we know they'll go away after a bounded bit of time no?
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  172. # [07:15] <@surkov> yes, if there's no something unpredictable of course
  173. # [07:21] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok, probably heading out for the night see ya
  174. # [07:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: see ya!
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  179. # [08:44] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, I'm around for a few minutes, I'm sort of thinking the right answeer may be to stop refcounting events all together
  180. # [08:45] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it's plausible
  181. # [08:45] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you want to do that? ;)
  182. # [08:46] <@surkov> (but if you do that then please on top of my patch :) )
  183. # [08:49] <tbsaunde> surkov: sure, yeah, not planning to work on it immediately, but maybe soon
  184. # [08:50] <tbsaunde> surkov: are you anoyed by how many type things we have for events? event rule, mEventType, c++ class, and xpcom constants
  185. # [08:52] <@surkov> well, those correlates but I didn't have good ideas how to combine those nicely
  186. # [08:54] <tbsaunde> surkov: sure, and this patch already does enough things
  187. # [08:56] <tbsaunde> mostly I'm just listing the stuff I'd like to see fixed in the future :)
  188. # [09:07] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 809751 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  189. # [09:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809751 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, presentational table related elements referred or having global ARIA attributes must be accessible
  190. # [09:08] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yep, I see, it's always good
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  192. # [09:24] <tbsaunde> surkov: that first aria example with aria-hidden is truly insane
  193. # [09:25] <tbsaunde> surkov: doesn't the spec say we shouldn't have any accessibles because aria-hidden should force no accessible?
  194. # [09:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: mostly we fail on crazy examples :)
  195. # [09:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: aria-hidden implementation varies between browsers and the spec doesn't insist on unique behavior
  196. # [09:26] <@surkov> in firefox we expose aria-hidden as object attribute
  197. # [09:26] <@surkov> so we should have an accessible to do that :)
  198. # [09:26] <tbsaunde> surkov: oh? I thought we were directly breaking the spec by what we do with aria-hidden already
  199. # [09:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: at least the test description says that more polite :)
  200. # [09:26] <tbsaunde> yeah, I spose, but its still pretty dam silly :)
  201. # [09:27] <@surkov> :)
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  207. # [11:45] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Resolution on bug 786566 from --- to FIXED.
  208. # [11:45] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 786566 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  209. # [11:45] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 786566 from --- to mozilla19.
  210. # [11:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=786566 nor, --, mozilla19, jkitch.bug, RESO FIXED, ARIA menuitem acting as submenu should have PARENT_MENUITEM role
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  244. # [15:42] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 679653 on bug 809751.
  245. # [15:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809751 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, presentational table related elements referred or having global ARIA attributes must be accessible
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  248. # [15:47] <@davidb> heyo
  249. # [15:48] <@eeejay> yoyo
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  259. # [16:19] <@marcoz> Good day all!
  260. # [16:25] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 809871 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  261. # [16:25] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809871 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, XUL tree accessible creation may flush layout
  262. # [16:27] <@davidb> Hi marcoz!
  263. # [16:27] <@davidb> eeejay: PM'ed ya
  264. # [16:28] <@marcoz> davidb: Hi! Sorry for dropping in so late. Feeling under the weather today.
  265. # [16:28] <@davidb> sorry to hear that
  266. # [16:28] <@davidb> marcoz: when is the london thing?
  267. # [16:29] <@marcoz> In two weeks.
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  269. # [16:29] <@davidb> marcoz: ok so it doesn't line up with the university recruiting event (Jill's email)
  270. # [16:29] <@marcoz> davidb: Flying out on the 20th, which is the Wednesday in the week after next week.
  271. # [16:30] <@marcoz> davidb: Unfortunately not.
  272. # [16:30] <@davidb> pl
  273. # [16:30] <@davidb> ok
  274. # [16:34] <@marcoz> davidb: Sounds like something Chris Heilmann could do.
  275. # [16:34] <@davidb> yeah
  276. # [16:34] <@marcoz> He *lives* in London.
  277. # [16:34] <@davidb> yeah
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  279. # [16:35] <@marcoz> I wish someone would implement that single attribute calculation/retrieval thing for object attrs. I don't feel like I'm capable of doing it, but I could use that for some ideas I have for AccessFu.
  280. # [16:36] <@marcoz> s/would/could/
  281. # [16:36] <@davidb> marcoz: it shouldn't be terribly difficult
  282. # [16:37] <@marcoz> davidb: Nah you have to add something to several interfaces etc. And then probably have to split up those object attribute calculations for each.
  283. # [16:37] <@marcoz> +attribute.
  284. # [16:38] <@davidb> could we just do it on accessfu side for now?
  285. # [16:39] <@marcoz> davidb: I want to avoid having to parse the whole blob of attributes I'd be getting back, if possible.
  286. # [16:40] <@marcoz> davidb: The nice thing about this new method, as I discussed with surkov at one point, is that it would also not calculate all attributes unless the original method is invoked, but only the requested one(s).
  287. # [16:41] <@davidb> i see
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  292. # [17:10] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 809871 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  293. # [17:10] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 679692 on bug 809871.
  294. # [17:10] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 809871 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  295. # [17:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809871 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, XUL tree accessible creation may flush layout
  296. # [17:19] <@marcoz> OK, really not feeling that great today. Grabbing a blanket and snuggling onto the couch. See you tomorrow!
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  302. # [18:13] <tbsaunde> davidb: I'm in the states in case you were worrying :-)
  303. # [18:14] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i figured. what's your plan?
  304. # [18:20] <tbsaunde> davidb: grabbing some winter stuff from home this weekend, then taking the train up monday or tuesday
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  322. # [19:39] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 809688 from nobody@mozilla.org to hub@mozilla.com.
  323. # [19:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809688 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, accessible name and description have special mappings on mac
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The end :)