/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-11-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Nov 16 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  14. # [02:42] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 811729 from --- to FIXED.
  15. # [02:42] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 811729 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  16. # [02:42] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 811729 from --- to mozilla19.
  17. # [02:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=811729 nor, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, remove XForms a11y support
  18. # [02:44] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 811720 from --- to FIXED.
  19. # [02:44] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 811720 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  20. # [02:44] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 811720 from --- to mozilla19.
  21. # [02:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=811720 nor, --, mozilla19, dbolter, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Detach touch adapter when deactivating.
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  36. # [04:59] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I hope my patch doesn't disgust you too much :)
  37. # [04:59] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I will look :)
  38. # [05:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: btw, it'd be nice to have mochitest, can you do that?
  39. # [05:02] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I can do it, but I'm not totally sure we want to check it in now since it may help show what the bug is which might help people xploit it
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  44. # [08:37] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 681879 on bug 446469.
  45. # [08:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=446469 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Missing and/or incorrect object:state-changed:busy event when downloading files
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  58. # [10:33] <pvagner> Hello,
  59. # [10:36] <pvagner> marcoz, eeejay: Sorry for disturbing. I am afraid I dont have enough details for a bug report and I think I cant explain that using twitter however latelly I am having issues with Firefox on Android.
  60. # [10:40] <pvagner> marcoz, eeejay: I am not sure the recent refactor of accessibility support might have introcuded it. I am seeing that for a few days maybe for a week.
  61. # [10:41] <pvagner> marcoz, eeejay: The thing is Firefox freezes and takes TTS also. The only cure to this is wait enough until it is killed by the OS or force a kill. In CM-10 there is a shortcut for that.
  62. # [10:44] <pvagner> marcoz: eeejay: usually I can load a page and while navigating that page after a minute or maybe sometimes a bit longer Firefox freezes and I either have to wait or I have to kill it otherwise I am unable to use the device at all. Chaning the volume produces a beep and vibration however tts is silent and I am getting no vibration or auditory cues while trying to use the touch screen.
  63. # [10:45] <@marcoz> pvagner: eeejay: I've seen that on some specific web sites, too, and the observation about a week or so is accurate. I find that the device reboots completely when this happens. That's why it goes silent.
  64. # [10:46] <@marcoz> pvagner: eeejay: I only found one page where I could reproduce this sometimes, and that's the "My Stream" page on alpha.app.net when logged in as a user. But since one needs to pay to get access to app.net, it's only reproducible for someone with an account.
  65. # [10:46] <@marcoz> pvagner: So it would be interesting to see if this happens on certain web pages only, or on random pages for you.
  66. # [10:52] <pvagner> marcoz: eeejay: for me It happens on all the pages I can visit e.g. marcozehe.de. However I dont think the device reboots completelly as it does not request a pin and my phone always request a pin in order to unlock the sim card.
  67. # [11:06] <pvagner> eeejay: I can try capturing a logcat however it is quite large I think. People usually post more readable logs so I dont know what I might be doing wrong.
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  69. # [11:20] <@marcoz> pvagner: I'm filing a bug about this, and I'd encourage you to attach the log in any case. Engineers are used to rummaging through this stuff. ;)
  70. # [11:27] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 812463 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  71. # [11:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812463 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Some pages cause freezes in Firefox and speech of TalkBack, may even reboot device
  72. # [11:27] <@marcoz> pvagner: Here you go!
  73. # [11:58] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 812466 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  74. # [11:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812466 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, namespacify Accessible classes
  75. # [12:21] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 682407 on bug 446469.
  76. # [12:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=446469 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Missing and/or incorrect object:state-changed:busy event when downloading files
  77. # [12:29] <icaaq> my good, trying to update NVDA to 2012.3 but it keeps telling me I have an running instance of NVDA present… have restarted the computer twice
  78. # [12:58] <@marcoz> icaaq: Hm, normally, after the update is downloaded, and the installation is started, it shuts down that instance and just goes on with the install.
  79. # [12:59] <@marcoz> It may tell you and you'll have to OK the dialog, but then it should continue just fine. Works for me at least.
  80. # [12:59] <icaaq> marcoz: yes, it finally worked.
  81. # [12:59] <icaaq> after the third restart it worked as excpected
  82. # [13:00] <icaaq> not sure why
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  87. # [13:37] <pvagner> marcoz: hmm, I have updated from nov 11 build to nov 15 and luckily enough I am unable to reproduce it at this time.
  88. # [13:41] <@marcoz> pvagner: OK! Let's watch it for a few days, I'll also see if I can still reproduce it. If not, we can resolve the bug worksforme.
  89. # [13:57] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 812480 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  90. # [13:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812480 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Jelly Bean 4.2: TalkBack announces that a page finished loading only after one touches th
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  103. # [15:28] <@askalski> hi everyone :D
  104. # [15:28] <@tbsaunde> askalski: hey
  105. # [15:29] <@askalski> anyone tried new LG nexus 4? I missed the sale, and I wonder if anyone of you got it.
  106. # [15:29] <@hub> nope
  107. # [15:29] <@hub> given it is not supported by AOSP, I'm unlikely to plunge
  108. # [15:29] <@hub> and microSIM make switching to it a bit definitive
  109. # [15:29] <@askalski> hub, eee?? nexus devices are by google, aren't they?
  110. # [15:30] <@hub> askalski: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/android-building/-ymcoMuDAbA
  111. # [15:37] <@askalski> hub, ok, so what would be your choice, if you had to buy a new device now?
  112. # [15:40] <@hub> Either I'll get a Galaxy Nexus
  113. # [15:41] <@hub> or nothing
  114. # [15:41] <@hub> I still have a working Nexus One
  115. # [15:41] <@hub> or an iPhone. At least that works :-)
  116. # [15:47] <@marcoz> hub!!!!! My world is shattering! :D :D :D
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  119. # [15:50] <@hub> marcoz: the sad part is not being able to run Firefox
  120. # [15:51] <@hub> marcoz: on the other hand, given how pissed I am with the Android bullshit...
  121. # [15:51] <@hub> I would have put N9 in the mix, but it is dead now
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  124. # [15:53] <@davidb> hi askalski!
  125. # [15:54] <@davidb> heyo all!
  126. # [15:54] <@askalski> hi davidb :)
  127. # [15:54] <@tbsaunde> mjorning davidb
  128. # [15:54] <@davidb> hi tbsaunde
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  132. # [15:58] <@marcoz> hub: Yeah it's really really sad that Android has such a bad stand. Google could've pulled this off really nicely, but they failed. And despite all that crap, Android leads the smart phone OS market.
  133. # [15:58] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
  134. # [15:58] <@hub> marcoz: like Windows
  135. # [15:58] <@davidb> hi hi
  136. # [15:58] <@davidb> i have one thing to say
  137. # [15:58] <@hub> marcoz: mediocrity works
  138. # [15:58] <@hub> marcoz: people don't really have the choice
  139. # [15:58] <@davidb> "ff os"
  140. # [15:58] <@hub> davidb: yeah, we talked about that
  141. # [15:59] <@davidb> i bet
  142. # [15:59] <@hub> it is not like I can actually use the dogfooding phone
  143. # [15:59] <@davidb> it needs a lot of work
  144. # [16:00] <@marcoz> davidb: hub: The question is how far 1.0 is out still, since many problems only started to surface once dogfooders started using it day to day.
  145. # [16:01] <@hub> marcoz: it is not the software that prevents me from using it day to day. At least no completely.
  146. # [16:01] <@hub> marcoz: FWIW, it only support GSM 1900 MHz so I can't even put my regular sim card in it
  147. # [16:04] <@marcoz> hub: Ouch, that would put it out of commission in Germany and many other European countries, too.
  148. # [16:05] <@hub> marcoz: no. actually in DE it support GSM and 3G properly
  149. # [16:05] <@hub> marcoz: that's part of the problem
  150. # [16:05] <@hub> marcoz: it a trukish cellphone
  151. # [16:05] <@hub> Turkish
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  153. # [16:06] <@marcoz> Really? Didn't know we're now having frequencies in that range as well. I thought we were all about 850 and 1800.
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  155. # [16:06] <@hub> marcoz: it is GSM 900 amd 1800, and UMTS 2100
  156. # [16:06] <@hub> marcoz: the phone support them
  157. # [16:06] <@marcoz> Ah OK!
  158. # [16:06] <@hub> marcoz: but here in North America, it is GSM 850 - 1900
  159. # [16:07] <@marcoz> davidb: have you heard anything about the device I was supposed to get?
  160. # [16:07] <@hub> marcoz: and UTMS 850 - 1900 or 1700
  161. # [16:07] <@davidb> i'm trying to figure out what state my b2g phone is in
  162. # [16:07] * shorlander-away is now known as shorlander
  163. # [16:07] <@davidb> (was downloading update)
  164. # [16:07] <@hub> s/UTMS/UMTS/
  165. # [16:07] <@davidb> black screen
  166. # [16:07] <@davidb> power button doesn't seem to do much
  167. # [16:08] <@hub> marcoz: so in short the dogfooding phone isn't meant to be used in North America. My carrier doesn't even have GSM
  168. # [16:08] <@marcoz> hub: Sheesh....
  169. # [16:08] <@hub> marcoz: I was willing to dogfood it as my only phone
  170. # [16:08] <@marcoz> hub: Which SIM card format does it need?
  171. # [16:09] <@hub> marcoz: standard sim card
  172. # [16:09] <@hub> marcoz: not the micro SIM that iPhone uses
  173. # [16:09] <@marcoz> hub: Ah OK. Will have to get one, I only have Micro-SIM at home right now. Pretty apple-centric. ;)
  174. # [16:09] <@hub> marcoz: Nexus 4 is like that oo
  175. # [16:10] <@hub> microSIM
  176. # [16:10] <@hub> iPhone 5 use a different one
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  179. # [16:12] <@davidb> hi surkov
  180. # [16:12] <@surkov> hi, davidb
  181. # [16:12] <@tbsaunde> ugh js why are you so awful
  182. # [16:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, have we talked to fs yet about the hyrarchical select stuff?
  183. # [16:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I said them few (several?) days ago but I didn't get an answer
  184. # [16:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I see, ugh
  185. # [16:26] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, I'm not really willing to keep workarounds around forever when I'm not sure they work to start with, and we probably won't be able to test them after a while
  186. # [16:27] <@surkov> it's reasonable
  187. # [16:28] <@surkov> I'll ping them again
  188. # [16:28] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but note we know nothing about other ATs
  189. # [16:31] <@tbsaunde> surkov: true
  190. # [16:32] <@surkov> marcoz: I'd be great if Marco tested others
  191. # [16:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: but if use compat mode then we'll be breaking those other at anyway no?
  192. # [16:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: compat mode for "green light"
  193. # [16:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but we need to check AT we work with
  194. # [16:33] <@surkov> others will adapt I think
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  196. # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, we don't do compat modes on linux or mac at all
  197. # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> this will also suck for addon devs since sometimes selects will work one way and sometimes another
  198. # [16:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: actually I'm surprised that orca still works with us :)
  199. # [16:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: also, a lot of the things that start a11y on windows we don't know about at all so its hard to be sure we are ok with them
  200. # [16:35] <@surkov> mac is special, we might not care about it if I get right
  201. # [16:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: for selects or in general?
  202. # [16:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: in generals, I don't remember any orca related bugs for a while
  203. # [16:36] <@surkov> maybe year or more
  204. # [16:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, there's been some random atk type stuff, and there's all the text interface stuff and ...
  205. # [16:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it doesn't seem we need to care about add ons developers since a11y addon+ screen reader should be not a thing seen in the wild
  206. # [16:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that wasn't really serious about orca
  207. # [16:37] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 812515 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  208. # [16:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812515 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] On app.net, the tabs for My Stream, Mentions, and Global are skipped.
  209. # [16:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but I don't know if we need to change something that breaks orca then how we can get them fixed
  210. # [16:38] <@surkov> does joanie still work on orca/
  211. # [16:38] <@surkov> ?
  212. # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes
  213. # [16:38] <@surkov> good
  214. # [16:38] <@surkov> are they focused on webkit?
  215. # [16:38] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you use orca on daily basis?
  216. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes, joanie seems to be big on webkit
  217. # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: when I need to use firefox :)
  218. # [16:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what do you use?
  219. # [16:40] <@tbsaunde> surkov: everything but firefox is in a terminal so I use yasr for them but it only does terminals
  220. # [16:40] <@marcoz> surkov: I tested Window-Eyes, and it showed the same behavior as JAWS, was broken, too. Sorry, should have commented.
  221. # [16:40] <@marcoz> Got distracted.
  222. # [16:41] <@surkov> marcoz: ok, cool. there are some others, right? I don't recall a name
  223. # [16:41] <@surkov> I didn't work with them but you tested them
  224. # [16:41] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what is yasr?
  225. # [16:42] <@tbsaunde> surkov: screen reader mgorse wrote
  226. # [16:42] <@surkov> amazing
  227. # [16:42] <@surkov> tbsaunde: is it better than orca?
  228. # [16:42] <@tbsaunde> I guess, its not actually that complicated a piece of code
  229. # [16:42] <@tbsaunde> it only works in terminals, but for that its better
  230. # [16:46] * Quits: @askalski (akuda@FB41DECD.C2202D7E.A61CD463.IP) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  231. # [16:47] <@marcoz> surkov: Yeah there are others, but I'd have to update them, haven't tested them in a while since I found they use similar techniques to those I already test regularly. So since all of them are broken right now, those others will be, too.
  232. # [16:47] <@surkov> marcoz: ok, sure, please don't forget to update bug when you get something :)
  233. # [16:48] * victorporof_ is now known as victorporof
  234. # [16:48] <@marcoz> surkov: Well, since both JAWS and NVDA, the two main AT consumers, are broken, this is a clear indication that the code isn't ready. ;)
  235. # [16:49] <@surkov> marcoz: we consider it running in compat mode so if we have some AT that's ok then we could put the patch for them
  236. # [16:50] <@surkov> marcoz: also I hope to get NVDA fixed soon
  237. # [16:50] <@marcoz> surkov: TBH, this sounds like a half-baked solution to me. Having two code paths in there when the idea is to clean up stuff is…..strange…..Why bother doing it in the first place, then?
  238. # [16:52] <@surkov> marcoz: flat hierarchy puts us into problem sometimes
  239. # [16:52] <@surkov> we could put find them and add workarounds but that's not the way to go
  240. # [16:54] <@marcoz> surkov: What kind of problems? And don't you expect for these problems to become even greater if you start introducing some sort of compat mode?
  241. # [16:57] <@hub> tbsaunde: did you signup for lunch? hillzy sent an email
  242. # [16:57] <@hub> davidb: ^^^^ :-)
  243. # [16:58] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: perhaps worse for things that use compat mode, but for everything else there won't be problems
  244. # [16:59] <@davidb> tbsaunde: check your email from hillzy at 10:33am
  245. # [16:59] <@davidb> let me know your choices
  246. # [17:03] <@hub> oh, does etherpad fail a11y ?
  247. # [17:05] <@tbsaunde> hub: there is fail involved, not sure where the blaime lies off hand though
  248. # [17:06] <@davidb> hub: yes.
  249. # [17:06] * @davidb sighs
  250. # [17:08] <@marcoz> hub: Yes, etherpads are problematic for any screen reader/browser combo.
  251. # [17:09] <@hub> *sigh*
  252. # [17:09] <@hub> big *sigh*
  253. # [17:11] * Quits: margle (margle@9534902B.42F65F50.62F9C372.IP) (Ping timeout)
  254. # [17:11] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 682407 on bug 446469.
  255. # [17:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=446469 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Missing and/or incorrect object:state-changed:busy event when downloading files
  256. # [17:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde moves through review queue :)
  257. # [17:11] <@marcoz> hub: This is one example showing one of the big web accessibility problems: Rich editing. Rich editing and accessibility on the web are probably the most broken thing right now.
  258. # [17:12] <@davidb> yeah he is laser focussed right now
  259. # [17:12] <@davidb> marcoz: yeah
  260. # [17:12] <@davidb> Eclipse Orion is decent but not common
  261. # [17:13] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I wonder why you say that?
  262. # [17:13] <@marcoz> davidb: And even its implementation gives us headaches. See bug 812187.
  263. # [17:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812187 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Screen readers say "blank" on first word of line when navigating by word
  264. # [17:13] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i walked past you earlier and you seemed dialled in
  265. # [17:14] <@davidb> marcoz: darn it
  266. # [17:15] * @davidb cc's maxli
  267. # [17:15] <@davidb> marcoz: tbsaunde almost volunteered to look at our text mess
  268. # [17:16] <@davidb> i'm afraid there is an event horizon on that code and we could lose him
  269. # [17:16] <@davidb> "our text mess" === gecko text problems
  270. # [17:16] <@surkov> it's still woth
  271. # [17:16] <@surkov> worth
  272. # [17:16] <@davidb> surkov: yeah someone has to
  273. # [17:16] <@marcoz> tbsaunde: If you could see me now, you would see me making a face with biiiiig pretty looking eyes that say "please! pretty please!" ;)
  274. # [17:17] <@davidb> helps us tbsaunde, your our only hope
  275. # [17:17] <@davidb> you're
  276. # [17:18] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com set status-firefox-esr to wontfix on bug 812480.
  277. # [17:18] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com set status-firefox17 to wontfix on bug 812480.
  278. # [17:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812480 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Jelly Bean 4.2: TalkBack announces that a page finished loading only after one touches th
  279. # [17:18] <@marcoz> davidb: Some of the problems with Orion like the braille display not updating when I arrow up and down sound to me like the caretMovedEvent isn't fired properly. I believe that's what NVDA uses to update the braille display. Left and right always made it behave.
  280. # [17:19] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 812480 from nobody@mozilla.org to dbolter@mozilla.com.
  281. # [17:19] <@hub> poor eeejay . 4.2 is breaking everything
  282. # [17:19] <@davidb> was just thinking that
  283. # [17:20] <@davidb> ff os
  284. # [17:22] <@marcoz> hub: davidb: This is not nearly as bad as the move from 4.0 to 4.1. Explore by Touch basically works, once one touches the area of the web content again. It's just losing the focus temporarily this time. And the other bug i filed earlier also happens on 4.1.2.
  285. # [17:22] <@davidb> oh
  286. # [17:23] <@marcoz> davidb: "the other bug" being bug 812515.
  287. # [17:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812515 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] On app.net, the tabs for My Stream, Mentions, and Global are skipped.
  288. # [17:25] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 678454 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  289. # [17:25] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 682479 on bug 678454.
  290. # [17:25] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 678454 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  291. # [17:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678454 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, coalesce events by accessible tree
  292. # [17:28] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  293. # [17:32] * @tbsaunde fears
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  296. # [17:48] <@davidb> marcoz: what is the link to our wcag checklist again?
  297. # [17:48] <@marcoz> OK folks, off for the weekend! See you on Monday!
  298. # [17:48] <@davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/WebDev_Recommendations
  299. # [17:48] <@davidb> ok marcoz have a nice 1
  300. # [17:48] <@marcoz> Umm, wait, http://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/WebDev_Recommendations
  301. # [17:49] <@hub> marcoz: have a good week-end
  302. # [17:49] <@marcoz> Thanks, davidb, hub!
  303. # [17:50] <@davidb> thanks
  304. # [17:50] * Quits: @marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-FEDEB7F5.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  305. # [17:54] <icaaq> Is these recommendations checked on new releases somehow?
  306. # [18:00] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  307. # [18:06] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what do you think about if we move event queue stuff into separate class and put it into inheritance with NotificationController?
  308. # [18:06] <@surkov> that file is getting big
  309. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I guess we could
  310. # [18:08] <@surkov> ok
  311. # [18:08] <@tbsaunde> I tend to think inheritance is silly when in practice you only have one time of object
  312. # [18:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: maybe it makes sense to store event queue directly on document?
  313. # [18:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: alternative?
  314. # [18:09] <@surkov> NotificationController triggers its processing
  315. # [18:09] <@surkov> and it's running depending on events presence in the queue
  316. # [18:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure, but NotificationController calls into document for some things
  317. # [18:09] <@surkov> all document does is puts events into the queue
  318. # [18:10] <@surkov> true, by doing it more - i'm not sure
  319. # [18:10] <@tbsaunde> surkov: and all NotificationController itself does is call a bunch of coalescing logic and store events then fire them
  320. # [18:11] <@surkov> yes
  321. # [18:11] <@surkov> and mostly that's all what we do with events :)
  322. # [18:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, I'll file a bug for ideas
  323. # [18:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, I guess what I'm thinking is have class event queue that manages events coalescence
  324. # [18:12] <@tbsaunde> then document has one of these event queue objects
  325. # [18:12] <@surkov> and events processing, right?
  326. # [18:12] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, EventQueue::FireEvents() or something
  327. # [18:13] <@surkov> ok, maybe you should file a bug since it seems you have ideas :)
  328. # [18:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  329. # [18:13] <@surkov> thanks :)
  330. # [18:13] <@tbsaunde> once I'm done skiming this namespace stuff, and maybe have lunch
  331. # [18:13] <@surkov> sure
  332. # [18:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: remember you have on fixed bugs that waits you for followups? ;)
  333. # [18:14] <@surkov> on fixed bugs -> one fixed bug
  334. # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I know, I can only do a couple things at a time
  335. # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> but spelling tests was something I wanted to do today
  336. # [18:21] <@surkov> I know. cool
  337. # [18:28] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  338. # [18:28] * Quits: @surkov (surkov@BB222503.6093351B.E17943EE.IP) (Quit: surkov)
  339. # [18:38] * habber is now known as habber-away
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  342. # [18:45] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Resolution on bug 810260 from --- to FIXED.
  343. # [18:45] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 810260 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  344. # [18:45] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 810260 from --- to mozilla19.
  345. # [18:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=810260 nor, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, xul:deck hidden pages shouldn't be offscreen
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  347. # [19:01] <@hub> so it is official now
  348. # [19:01] <@tbsaunde> hub: ?
  349. # [19:01] <@hub> tbsaunde: we are now in jst organization, no longer jp
  350. # [19:02] <@tbsaunde> hub: ah
  351. # [19:02] <@davidb> still jp ;)
  352. # [19:02] <@davidb> just indirectly
  353. # [19:03] <@hub> right
  354. # [19:07] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  355. # [19:10] <@hub> davidb: jenison interview http://www.cbc.ca/metromorning/episodes/2012/11/16/accessibility-camp/
  356. # [19:10] <@hub> if I can figure out how to download it
  357. # [19:10] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@6F3F70F1.1C233438.79933D60.IP) (Quit: victorporof)
  358. # [19:11] <@hub> *sigh*
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  361. # [19:14] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 682401 on bug 812466.
  362. # [19:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812466 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, namespacify Accessible classes
  363. # [19:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: did you rubber stamp that or kill yourself?
  364. # [19:28] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  365. # [19:29] * habber-away is now known as habber
  366. # [19:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I skimed it
  367. # [19:36] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  368. # [19:37] <@davidb> sensible
  369. # [19:44] * Joins: drexler (chatzilla@moz-8E3C80CA.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  370. # [19:59] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 681827 on bug 812041.
  371. # [19:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812041 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, ARIA slider and spinbutton don't provide a value for name computation
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  376. # [20:13] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 680609 on bug 525909.
  377. # [20:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=525909 nor, P2, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Support ARIA role "rowgroup"
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  381. # [20:42] <icaaq> I think i already know the answer of this but, is there a way of knowing if a screen reader is being used. for tracking analytics :)
  382. # [20:47] <@tbsaunde> icaaq: not unless you count timing attacks
  383. # [20:48] <icaaq> tbsaunde: hmm, I'm not sure I understand what you mean :)
  384. # [20:49] <@tbsaunde> icaaq: what I'm saying is roughly this
  385. # [20:49] <@tbsaunde> 1 there is no way to actually now that
  386. # [20:51] <@tbsaunde> 2 if you were really determined for some reason you could probably get a good guess atleast of if accessibility is enabled (in gecko atleast) by see how long it takes to do various dom modifications and things
  387. # [20:51] <@hub> icaaq: on Mac you can know
  388. # [20:52] <@hub> icaaq: it is not exposed, but the a11y code does know, at least knows that is is NOT being used
  389. # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> hub: he's talking about as unprivladged code I believe
  390. # [20:57] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  391. # [20:57] <@hub> yeah
  392. # [21:03] <@davidb> icaaq: it is sort of a privacy issue
  393. # [21:03] <icaaq> hub tbsaunde thanks.
  394. # [21:03] <icaaq> davidb: yes
  395. # [21:03] <@davidb> icaaq: do you want it?
  396. # [21:03] <@davidb> Apple proposed dom API for it
  397. # [21:04] <@davidb> (or properties)
  398. # [21:04] <icaaq> it would have been fun to see just how many users that uses the webpage with AT
  399. # [21:04] <icaaq> but i see that it can be used in the wrong way
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  404. # [21:07] <@davidb> yeah i sort of like that the web might level the playing field as much as possible in terms of discrimination
  405. # [21:07] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  406. # [21:10] <icaaq> davidb: yes, agreed!
  407. # [21:10] <@davidb> Apple's motivations are noble though
  408. # [21:11] <@davidb> i think
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  410. # [21:11] <icaaq> do you have any links to it
  411. # [21:11] <icaaq> the apple idea
  412. # [21:17] * Quits: drexler (chatzilla@moz-8E3C80CA.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Ping timeout)
  413. # [21:20] <@davidb> icaaq: http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/#current
  414. # [21:20] * Joins: nhirata (anonymous@moz-BE33DA21.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  415. # [21:20] <@davidb> look for Indie UI: User Context 1.0
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  418. # [21:29] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah, that would be interesting instrumentation for us..
  419. # [21:29] <@davidb> tbsaunde: check your PM
  420. # [21:29] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  421. # [21:29] <@davidb> eeejay: it has two sides.
  422. # [21:30] <@eeejay> yeah
  423. # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: us == who?
  424. # [21:32] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, you and me :)_
  425. # [21:33] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: well, we have data for how often accessibility is on in firefox
  426. # [21:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: want to link eeejay to the telemetry data?
  427. # [21:34] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, does it show breakdown by at?
  428. # [21:34] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: some on windows
  429. # [21:34] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client exited)
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  431. # [21:37] <@davidb> sure
  432. # [21:38] <@davidb> eeejay: https://metrics.mozilla.com/data/content/pentaho-cdf-dd/Render?solution=metrics2&path=%2Ftelemetry&file=SignIn.wcdf
  433. # [21:39] <@davidb> i haven't looked here in ages since i find the telemetry dashboard not terribly useful :(
  434. # [21:40] <@davidb> eeejay: if you get to the histograms… select A11Y_CONSUMERS
  435. # [21:40] <@davidb> eeejay: numbers are here http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/msaa/Compatibility.h#59
  436. # [21:49] <@eeejay> davidb, awesome, thanks
  437. # [21:49] <@davidb> np
  438. # [21:54] * Joins: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  439. # [21:55] <icaaq> davidb: did you see my question regarding http://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/WebDev_Recommendations? if these recommendations is tested on new releases somehow?
  440. # [22:02] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-80D0ACBE.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  441. # [22:08] <@davidb> darn he left
  442. # [22:12] * Quits: nhirata (anonymous@moz-BE33DA21.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: nhirata)
  443. # [22:25] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  444. # [22:31] <@davidb> peace out friends
  445. # [22:31] * Quits: @davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
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  450. # [23:05] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 812480 from dbolter@mozilla.com to eitan@monotonous.org.
  451. # [23:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812480 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Jelly Bean 4.2: TalkBack announces that a page finished loading only after one touches th
  452. # [23:07] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from blassey.bugs@lassey .us for attachment 682622 on bug 812480.
  453. # [23:30] * Joins: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-E9B02845.austin.res.rr.com)
  454. # [23:36] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 682633 on bug 812515.
  455. # [23:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812515 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] On app.net, the tabs for My Stream, Mentions, and Global are skipped.
  456. # [23:44] * Quits: ehsan (ehsan@A5087023.2354C43D.D8E68FF6.IP) (Input/output error)
  457. # [23:51] * Joins: habber (habber@moz-618E7D17.nyc.res.rr.com)
  458. # Session Close: Sat Nov 17 00:00:00 2012

The end :)