/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2012-11-16 / end
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- # Session Start: Fri Nov 16 00:00:00 2012
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [02:42] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 811729 from --- to FIXED.
- # [02:42] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 811729 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [02:42] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 811729 from --- to mozilla19.
- # [02:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=811729 nor, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, remove XForms a11y support
- # [02:44] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 811720 from --- to FIXED.
- # [02:44] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 811720 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [02:44] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 811720 from --- to mozilla19.
- # [02:44] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=811720 nor, --, mozilla19, dbolter, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] Detach touch adapter when deactivating.
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- # [04:59] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I hope my patch doesn't disgust you too much :)
- # [04:59] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I will look :)
- # [05:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: btw, it'd be nice to have mochitest, can you do that?
- # [05:02] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I can do it, but I'm not totally sure we want to check it in now since it may help show what the bug is which might help people xploit it
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- # [08:37] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 681879 on bug 446469.
- # [08:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=446469 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Missing and/or incorrect object:state-changed:busy event when downloading files
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- # [10:33] <pvagner> Hello,
- # [10:36] <pvagner> marcoz, eeejay: Sorry for disturbing. I am afraid I dont have enough details for a bug report and I think I cant explain that using twitter however latelly I am having issues with Firefox on Android.
- # [10:40] <pvagner> marcoz, eeejay: I am not sure the recent refactor of accessibility support might have introcuded it. I am seeing that for a few days maybe for a week.
- # [10:41] <pvagner> marcoz, eeejay: The thing is Firefox freezes and takes TTS also. The only cure to this is wait enough until it is killed by the OS or force a kill. In CM-10 there is a shortcut for that.
- # [10:44] <pvagner> marcoz: eeejay: usually I can load a page and while navigating that page after a minute or maybe sometimes a bit longer Firefox freezes and I either have to wait or I have to kill it otherwise I am unable to use the device at all. Chaning the volume produces a beep and vibration however tts is silent and I am getting no vibration or auditory cues while trying to use the touch screen.
- # [10:45] <@marcoz> pvagner: eeejay: I've seen that on some specific web sites, too, and the observation about a week or so is accurate. I find that the device reboots completely when this happens. That's why it goes silent.
- # [10:46] <@marcoz> pvagner: eeejay: I only found one page where I could reproduce this sometimes, and that's the "My Stream" page on alpha.app.net when logged in as a user. But since one needs to pay to get access to app.net, it's only reproducible for someone with an account.
- # [10:46] <@marcoz> pvagner: So it would be interesting to see if this happens on certain web pages only, or on random pages for you.
- # [10:52] <pvagner> marcoz: eeejay: for me It happens on all the pages I can visit e.g. marcozehe.de. However I dont think the device reboots completelly as it does not request a pin and my phone always request a pin in order to unlock the sim card.
- # [11:06] <pvagner> eeejay: I can try capturing a logcat however it is quite large I think. People usually post more readable logs so I dont know what I might be doing wrong.
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- # [11:20] <@marcoz> pvagner: I'm filing a bug about this, and I'd encourage you to attach the log in any case. Engineers are used to rummaging through this stuff. ;)
- # [11:27] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 812463 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
- # [11:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812463 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Some pages cause freezes in Firefox and speech of TalkBack, may even reboot device
- # [11:27] <@marcoz> pvagner: Here you go!
- # [11:58] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 812466 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [11:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812466 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, namespacify Accessible classes
- # [12:21] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 682407 on bug 446469.
- # [12:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=446469 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Missing and/or incorrect object:state-changed:busy event when downloading files
- # [12:29] <icaaq> my good, trying to update NVDA to 2012.3 but it keeps telling me I have an running instance of NVDA present… have restarted the computer twice
- # [12:58] <@marcoz> icaaq: Hm, normally, after the update is downloaded, and the installation is started, it shuts down that instance and just goes on with the install.
- # [12:59] <@marcoz> It may tell you and you'll have to OK the dialog, but then it should continue just fine. Works for me at least.
- # [12:59] <icaaq> marcoz: yes, it finally worked.
- # [12:59] <icaaq> after the third restart it worked as excpected
- # [13:00] <icaaq> not sure why
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- # [13:37] <pvagner> marcoz: hmm, I have updated from nov 11 build to nov 15 and luckily enough I am unable to reproduce it at this time.
- # [13:41] <@marcoz> pvagner: OK! Let's watch it for a few days, I'll also see if I can still reproduce it. If not, we can resolve the bug worksforme.
- # [13:57] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 812480 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
- # [13:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812480 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Jelly Bean 4.2: TalkBack announces that a page finished loading only after one touches th
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- # [15:28] <@askalski> hi everyone :D
- # [15:28] <@tbsaunde> askalski: hey
- # [15:29] <@askalski> anyone tried new LG nexus 4? I missed the sale, and I wonder if anyone of you got it.
- # [15:29] <@hub> nope
- # [15:29] <@hub> given it is not supported by AOSP, I'm unlikely to plunge
- # [15:29] <@hub> and microSIM make switching to it a bit definitive
- # [15:29] <@askalski> hub, eee?? nexus devices are by google, aren't they?
- # [15:30] <@hub> askalski: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/android-building/-ymcoMuDAbA
- # [15:37] <@askalski> hub, ok, so what would be your choice, if you had to buy a new device now?
- # [15:40] <@hub> Either I'll get a Galaxy Nexus
- # [15:41] <@hub> or nothing
- # [15:41] <@hub> I still have a working Nexus One
- # [15:41] <@hub> or an iPhone. At least that works :-)
- # [15:47] <@marcoz> hub!!!!! My world is shattering! :D :D :D
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- # [15:50] <@hub> marcoz: the sad part is not being able to run Firefox
- # [15:51] <@hub> marcoz: on the other hand, given how pissed I am with the Android bullshit...
- # [15:51] <@hub> I would have put N9 in the mix, but it is dead now
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- # [15:53] <@davidb> hi askalski!
- # [15:54] <@davidb> heyo all!
- # [15:54] <@askalski> hi davidb :)
- # [15:54] <@tbsaunde> mjorning davidb
- # [15:54] <@davidb> hi tbsaunde
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- # [15:58] <@marcoz> hub: Yeah it's really really sad that Android has such a bad stand. Google could've pulled this off really nicely, but they failed. And despite all that crap, Android leads the smart phone OS market.
- # [15:58] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
- # [15:58] <@hub> marcoz: like Windows
- # [15:58] <@davidb> hi hi
- # [15:58] <@davidb> i have one thing to say
- # [15:58] <@hub> marcoz: mediocrity works
- # [15:58] <@hub> marcoz: people don't really have the choice
- # [15:58] <@davidb> "ff os"
- # [15:58] <@hub> davidb: yeah, we talked about that
- # [15:59] <@davidb> i bet
- # [15:59] <@hub> it is not like I can actually use the dogfooding phone
- # [15:59] <@davidb> it needs a lot of work
- # [16:00] <@marcoz> davidb: hub: The question is how far 1.0 is out still, since many problems only started to surface once dogfooders started using it day to day.
- # [16:01] <@hub> marcoz: it is not the software that prevents me from using it day to day. At least no completely.
- # [16:01] <@hub> marcoz: FWIW, it only support GSM 1900 MHz so I can't even put my regular sim card in it
- # [16:04] <@marcoz> hub: Ouch, that would put it out of commission in Germany and many other European countries, too.
- # [16:05] <@hub> marcoz: no. actually in DE it support GSM and 3G properly
- # [16:05] <@hub> marcoz: that's part of the problem
- # [16:05] <@hub> marcoz: it a trukish cellphone
- # [16:05] <@hub> Turkish
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- # [16:06] <@marcoz> Really? Didn't know we're now having frequencies in that range as well. I thought we were all about 850 and 1800.
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- # [16:06] <@hub> marcoz: it is GSM 900 amd 1800, and UMTS 2100
- # [16:06] <@hub> marcoz: the phone support them
- # [16:06] <@marcoz> Ah OK!
- # [16:06] <@hub> marcoz: but here in North America, it is GSM 850 - 1900
- # [16:07] <@marcoz> davidb: have you heard anything about the device I was supposed to get?
- # [16:07] <@hub> marcoz: and UTMS 850 - 1900 or 1700
- # [16:07] <@davidb> i'm trying to figure out what state my b2g phone is in
- # [16:07] * shorlander-away is now known as shorlander
- # [16:07] <@davidb> (was downloading update)
- # [16:07] <@hub> s/UTMS/UMTS/
- # [16:07] <@davidb> black screen
- # [16:07] <@davidb> power button doesn't seem to do much
- # [16:08] <@hub> marcoz: so in short the dogfooding phone isn't meant to be used in North America. My carrier doesn't even have GSM
- # [16:08] <@marcoz> hub: Sheesh....
- # [16:08] <@hub> marcoz: I was willing to dogfood it as my only phone
- # [16:08] <@marcoz> hub: Which SIM card format does it need?
- # [16:09] <@hub> marcoz: standard sim card
- # [16:09] <@hub> marcoz: not the micro SIM that iPhone uses
- # [16:09] <@marcoz> hub: Ah OK. Will have to get one, I only have Micro-SIM at home right now. Pretty apple-centric. ;)
- # [16:09] <@hub> marcoz: Nexus 4 is like that oo
- # [16:10] <@hub> microSIM
- # [16:10] <@hub> iPhone 5 use a different one
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- # [16:12] <@davidb> hi surkov
- # [16:12] <@surkov> hi, davidb
- # [16:12] <@tbsaunde> ugh js why are you so awful
- # [16:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, have we talked to fs yet about the hyrarchical select stuff?
- # [16:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I said them few (several?) days ago but I didn't get an answer
- # [16:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I see, ugh
- # [16:26] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, I'm not really willing to keep workarounds around forever when I'm not sure they work to start with, and we probably won't be able to test them after a while
- # [16:27] <@surkov> it's reasonable
- # [16:28] <@surkov> I'll ping them again
- # [16:28] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but note we know nothing about other ATs
- # [16:31] <@tbsaunde> surkov: true
- # [16:32] <@surkov> marcoz: I'd be great if Marco tested others
- # [16:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: but if use compat mode then we'll be breaking those other at anyway no?
- # [16:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: compat mode for "green light"
- # [16:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but we need to check AT we work with
- # [16:33] <@surkov> others will adapt I think
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- # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, we don't do compat modes on linux or mac at all
- # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> this will also suck for addon devs since sometimes selects will work one way and sometimes another
- # [16:35] <@surkov> tbsaunde: actually I'm surprised that orca still works with us :)
- # [16:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: also, a lot of the things that start a11y on windows we don't know about at all so its hard to be sure we are ok with them
- # [16:35] <@surkov> mac is special, we might not care about it if I get right
- # [16:35] <@tbsaunde> surkov: for selects or in general?
- # [16:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: in generals, I don't remember any orca related bugs for a while
- # [16:36] <@surkov> maybe year or more
- # [16:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, there's been some random atk type stuff, and there's all the text interface stuff and ...
- # [16:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it doesn't seem we need to care about add ons developers since a11y addon+ screen reader should be not a thing seen in the wild
- # [16:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that wasn't really serious about orca
- # [16:37] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 812515 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
- # [16:37] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812515 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] On app.net, the tabs for My Stream, Mentions, and Global are skipped.
- # [16:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: but I don't know if we need to change something that breaks orca then how we can get them fixed
- # [16:38] <@surkov> does joanie still work on orca/
- # [16:38] <@surkov> ?
- # [16:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes
- # [16:38] <@surkov> good
- # [16:38] <@surkov> are they focused on webkit?
- # [16:38] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you use orca on daily basis?
- # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes, joanie seems to be big on webkit
- # [16:39] <@tbsaunde> surkov: when I need to use firefox :)
- # [16:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what do you use?
- # [16:40] <@tbsaunde> surkov: everything but firefox is in a terminal so I use yasr for them but it only does terminals
- # [16:40] <@marcoz> surkov: I tested Window-Eyes, and it showed the same behavior as JAWS, was broken, too. Sorry, should have commented.
- # [16:40] <@marcoz> Got distracted.
- # [16:41] <@surkov> marcoz: ok, cool. there are some others, right? I don't recall a name
- # [16:41] <@surkov> I didn't work with them but you tested them
- # [16:41] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what is yasr?
- # [16:42] <@tbsaunde> surkov: screen reader mgorse wrote
- # [16:42] <@surkov> amazing
- # [16:42] <@surkov> tbsaunde: is it better than orca?
- # [16:42] <@tbsaunde> I guess, its not actually that complicated a piece of code
- # [16:42] <@tbsaunde> it only works in terminals, but for that its better
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- # [16:47] <@marcoz> surkov: Yeah there are others, but I'd have to update them, haven't tested them in a while since I found they use similar techniques to those I already test regularly. So since all of them are broken right now, those others will be, too.
- # [16:47] <@surkov> marcoz: ok, sure, please don't forget to update bug when you get something :)
- # [16:48] * victorporof_ is now known as victorporof
- # [16:48] <@marcoz> surkov: Well, since both JAWS and NVDA, the two main AT consumers, are broken, this is a clear indication that the code isn't ready. ;)
- # [16:49] <@surkov> marcoz: we consider it running in compat mode so if we have some AT that's ok then we could put the patch for them
- # [16:50] <@surkov> marcoz: also I hope to get NVDA fixed soon
- # [16:50] <@marcoz> surkov: TBH, this sounds like a half-baked solution to me. Having two code paths in there when the idea is to clean up stuff is…..strange…..Why bother doing it in the first place, then?
- # [16:52] <@surkov> marcoz: flat hierarchy puts us into problem sometimes
- # [16:52] <@surkov> we could put find them and add workarounds but that's not the way to go
- # [16:54] <@marcoz> surkov: What kind of problems? And don't you expect for these problems to become even greater if you start introducing some sort of compat mode?
- # [16:57] <@hub> tbsaunde: did you signup for lunch? hillzy sent an email
- # [16:57] <@hub> davidb: ^^^^ :-)
- # [16:58] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: perhaps worse for things that use compat mode, but for everything else there won't be problems
- # [16:59] <@davidb> tbsaunde: check your email from hillzy at 10:33am
- # [16:59] <@davidb> let me know your choices
- # [17:03] <@hub> oh, does etherpad fail a11y ?
- # [17:05] <@tbsaunde> hub: there is fail involved, not sure where the blaime lies off hand though
- # [17:06] <@davidb> hub: yes.
- # [17:06] * @davidb sighs
- # [17:08] <@marcoz> hub: Yes, etherpads are problematic for any screen reader/browser combo.
- # [17:09] <@hub> *sigh*
- # [17:09] <@hub> big *sigh*
- # [17:11] * Quits: margle (margle@9534902B.42F65F50.62F9C372.IP) (Ping timeout)
- # [17:11] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 682407 on bug 446469.
- # [17:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=446469 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Missing and/or incorrect object:state-changed:busy event when downloading files
- # [17:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde moves through review queue :)
- # [17:11] <@marcoz> hub: This is one example showing one of the big web accessibility problems: Rich editing. Rich editing and accessibility on the web are probably the most broken thing right now.
- # [17:12] <@davidb> yeah he is laser focussed right now
- # [17:12] <@davidb> marcoz: yeah
- # [17:12] <@davidb> Eclipse Orion is decent but not common
- # [17:13] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I wonder why you say that?
- # [17:13] <@marcoz> davidb: And even its implementation gives us headaches. See bug 812187.
- # [17:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812187 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Screen readers say "blank" on first word of line when navigating by word
- # [17:13] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i walked past you earlier and you seemed dialled in
- # [17:14] <@davidb> marcoz: darn it
- # [17:15] * @davidb cc's maxli
- # [17:15] <@davidb> marcoz: tbsaunde almost volunteered to look at our text mess
- # [17:16] <@davidb> i'm afraid there is an event horizon on that code and we could lose him
- # [17:16] <@davidb> "our text mess" === gecko text problems
- # [17:16] <@surkov> it's still woth
- # [17:16] <@surkov> worth
- # [17:16] <@davidb> surkov: yeah someone has to
- # [17:16] <@marcoz> tbsaunde: If you could see me now, you would see me making a face with biiiiig pretty looking eyes that say "please! pretty please!" ;)
- # [17:17] <@davidb> helps us tbsaunde, your our only hope
- # [17:17] <@davidb> you're
- # [17:18] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com set status-firefox-esr to wontfix on bug 812480.
- # [17:18] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com set status-firefox17 to wontfix on bug 812480.
- # [17:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812480 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Jelly Bean 4.2: TalkBack announces that a page finished loading only after one touches th
- # [17:18] <@marcoz> davidb: Some of the problems with Orion like the braille display not updating when I arrow up and down sound to me like the caretMovedEvent isn't fired properly. I believe that's what NVDA uses to update the braille display. Left and right always made it behave.
- # [17:19] <@firebot> akeybl@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 812480 from nobody@mozilla.org to dbolter@mozilla.com.
- # [17:19] <@hub> poor eeejay . 4.2 is breaking everything
- # [17:19] <@davidb> was just thinking that
- # [17:20] <@davidb> ff os
- # [17:22] <@marcoz> hub: davidb: This is not nearly as bad as the move from 4.0 to 4.1. Explore by Touch basically works, once one touches the area of the web content again. It's just losing the focus temporarily this time. And the other bug i filed earlier also happens on 4.1.2.
- # [17:22] <@davidb> oh
- # [17:23] <@marcoz> davidb: "the other bug" being bug 812515.
- # [17:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812515 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] On app.net, the tabs for My Stream, Mentions, and Global are skipped.
- # [17:25] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 678454 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [17:25] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 682479 on bug 678454.
- # [17:25] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 678454 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [17:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678454 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, coalesce events by accessible tree
- # [17:28] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [17:32] * @tbsaunde fears
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- # [17:48] <@davidb> marcoz: what is the link to our wcag checklist again?
- # [17:48] <@marcoz> OK folks, off for the weekend! See you on Monday!
- # [17:48] <@davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/WebDev_Recommendations
- # [17:48] <@davidb> ok marcoz have a nice 1
- # [17:48] <@marcoz> Umm, wait, http://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/WebDev_Recommendations
- # [17:49] <@hub> marcoz: have a good week-end
- # [17:49] <@marcoz> Thanks, davidb, hub!
- # [17:50] <@davidb> thanks
- # [17:50] * Quits: @marcoz (marco.zehe@moz-FEDEB7F5.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [17:54] <icaaq> Is these recommendations checked on new releases somehow?
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- # [18:06] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what do you think about if we move event queue stuff into separate class and put it into inheritance with NotificationController?
- # [18:06] <@surkov> that file is getting big
- # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I guess we could
- # [18:08] <@surkov> ok
- # [18:08] <@tbsaunde> I tend to think inheritance is silly when in practice you only have one time of object
- # [18:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: maybe it makes sense to store event queue directly on document?
- # [18:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: alternative?
- # [18:09] <@surkov> NotificationController triggers its processing
- # [18:09] <@surkov> and it's running depending on events presence in the queue
- # [18:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure, but NotificationController calls into document for some things
- # [18:09] <@surkov> all document does is puts events into the queue
- # [18:10] <@surkov> true, by doing it more - i'm not sure
- # [18:10] <@tbsaunde> surkov: and all NotificationController itself does is call a bunch of coalescing logic and store events then fire them
- # [18:11] <@surkov> yes
- # [18:11] <@surkov> and mostly that's all what we do with events :)
- # [18:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ok, I'll file a bug for ideas
- # [18:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, I guess what I'm thinking is have class event queue that manages events coalescence
- # [18:12] <@tbsaunde> then document has one of these event queue objects
- # [18:12] <@surkov> and events processing, right?
- # [18:12] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, EventQueue::FireEvents() or something
- # [18:13] <@surkov> ok, maybe you should file a bug since it seems you have ideas :)
- # [18:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
- # [18:13] <@surkov> thanks :)
- # [18:13] <@tbsaunde> once I'm done skiming this namespace stuff, and maybe have lunch
- # [18:13] <@surkov> sure
- # [18:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: remember you have on fixed bugs that waits you for followups? ;)
- # [18:14] <@surkov> on fixed bugs -> one fixed bug
- # [18:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I know, I can only do a couple things at a time
- # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> but spelling tests was something I wanted to do today
- # [18:21] <@surkov> I know. cool
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- # [18:45] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Resolution on bug 810260 from --- to FIXED.
- # [18:45] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Status on bug 810260 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [18:45] <@firebot> bmo@edmorley.co.uk changed the Target Milestone on bug 810260 from --- to mozilla19.
- # [18:45] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=810260 nor, --, mozilla19, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, xul:deck hidden pages shouldn't be offscreen
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- # [19:01] <@hub> so it is official now
- # [19:01] <@tbsaunde> hub: ?
- # [19:01] <@hub> tbsaunde: we are now in jst organization, no longer jp
- # [19:02] <@tbsaunde> hub: ah
- # [19:02] <@davidb> still jp ;)
- # [19:02] <@davidb> just indirectly
- # [19:03] <@hub> right
- # [19:07] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
- # [19:10] <@hub> davidb: jenison interview http://www.cbc.ca/metromorning/episodes/2012/11/16/accessibility-camp/
- # [19:10] <@hub> if I can figure out how to download it
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- # [19:11] <@hub> *sigh*
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- # [19:14] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 682401 on bug 812466.
- # [19:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812466 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, namespacify Accessible classes
- # [19:27] <@davidb> tbsaunde: did you rubber stamp that or kill yourself?
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- # [19:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I skimed it
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- # [19:37] <@davidb> sensible
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- # [19:59] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 681827 on bug 812041.
- # [19:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812041 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, ARIA slider and spinbutton don't provide a value for name computation
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- # [20:13] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 680609 on bug 525909.
- # [20:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=525909 nor, P2, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, Support ARIA role "rowgroup"
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- # [20:42] <icaaq> I think i already know the answer of this but, is there a way of knowing if a screen reader is being used. for tracking analytics :)
- # [20:47] <@tbsaunde> icaaq: not unless you count timing attacks
- # [20:48] <icaaq> tbsaunde: hmm, I'm not sure I understand what you mean :)
- # [20:49] <@tbsaunde> icaaq: what I'm saying is roughly this
- # [20:49] <@tbsaunde> 1 there is no way to actually now that
- # [20:51] <@tbsaunde> 2 if you were really determined for some reason you could probably get a good guess atleast of if accessibility is enabled (in gecko atleast) by see how long it takes to do various dom modifications and things
- # [20:51] <@hub> icaaq: on Mac you can know
- # [20:52] <@hub> icaaq: it is not exposed, but the a11y code does know, at least knows that is is NOT being used
- # [20:55] <@tbsaunde> hub: he's talking about as unprivladged code I believe
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- # [20:57] <@hub> yeah
- # [21:03] <@davidb> icaaq: it is sort of a privacy issue
- # [21:03] <icaaq> hub tbsaunde thanks.
- # [21:03] <icaaq> davidb: yes
- # [21:03] <@davidb> icaaq: do you want it?
- # [21:03] <@davidb> Apple proposed dom API for it
- # [21:04] <@davidb> (or properties)
- # [21:04] <icaaq> it would have been fun to see just how many users that uses the webpage with AT
- # [21:04] <icaaq> but i see that it can be used in the wrong way
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- # [21:07] <@davidb> yeah i sort of like that the web might level the playing field as much as possible in terms of discrimination
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- # [21:10] <icaaq> davidb: yes, agreed!
- # [21:10] <@davidb> Apple's motivations are noble though
- # [21:11] <@davidb> i think
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- # [21:11] <icaaq> do you have any links to it
- # [21:11] <icaaq> the apple idea
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- # [21:20] <@davidb> icaaq: http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/#current
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- # [21:20] <@davidb> look for Indie UI: User Context 1.0
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- # [21:29] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah, that would be interesting instrumentation for us..
- # [21:29] <@davidb> tbsaunde: check your PM
- # [21:29] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
- # [21:29] <@davidb> eeejay: it has two sides.
- # [21:30] <@eeejay> yeah
- # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: us == who?
- # [21:32] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, you and me :)_
- # [21:33] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: well, we have data for how often accessibility is on in firefox
- # [21:34] <@tbsaunde> davidb: want to link eeejay to the telemetry data?
- # [21:34] <@eeejay> tbsaunde, does it show breakdown by at?
- # [21:34] <@tbsaunde> eeejay: some on windows
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- # [21:37] <@davidb> sure
- # [21:38] <@davidb> eeejay: https://metrics.mozilla.com/data/content/pentaho-cdf-dd/Render?solution=metrics2&path=%2Ftelemetry&file=SignIn.wcdf
- # [21:39] <@davidb> i haven't looked here in ages since i find the telemetry dashboard not terribly useful :(
- # [21:40] <@davidb> eeejay: if you get to the histograms… select A11Y_CONSUMERS
- # [21:40] <@davidb> eeejay: numbers are here http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/msaa/Compatibility.h#59
- # [21:49] <@eeejay> davidb, awesome, thanks
- # [21:49] <@davidb> np
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- # [21:55] <icaaq> davidb: did you see my question regarding http://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/WebDev_Recommendations? if these recommendations is tested on new releases somehow?
- # [22:02] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-80D0ACBE.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [22:08] <@davidb> darn he left
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- # [22:31] <@davidb> peace out friends
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- # [23:05] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 812480 from dbolter@mozilla.com to eitan@monotonous.org.
- # [23:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812480 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Jelly Bean 4.2: TalkBack announces that a page finished loading only after one touches th
- # [23:07] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from blassey.bugs@lassey .us for attachment 682622 on bug 812480.
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- # [23:36] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 682633 on bug 812515.
- # [23:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=812515 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] On app.net, the tabs for My Stream, Mentions, and Global are skipped.
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- # Session Close: Sat Nov 17 00:00:00 2012
The end :)