/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-01-17 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  60. # [11:58] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 828141 from --- to FIXED.
  61. # [11:58] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 828141 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  62. # [11:58] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 828141 from --- to mozilla21.
  63. # [11:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=828141 nor, --, mozilla21, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, windows shouldn't hold onto text change events
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  83. # [15:10] <@davidb> heyo
  84. # [15:11] <@hub> hi
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  88. # [15:33] <@marcoz> Hi all!
  89. # [15:33] <@marcoz> Oops, had forgotten to wake up the MBP. :)
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  92. # [15:49] <@marcoz> davidb: hub: Hi!
  93. # [15:52] <Stevef> hi all, I know I have asked this question before, but still don't understand...
  94. # [15:53] <Stevef> why is the html5 article element mapped to a document role?
  95. # [15:54] <Stevef> the 2 don't appear to match, for example on this page: http://html5doctor.com/designing-a-blog-with-html5/there are over a hundred <article> elements (conforming use)
  96. # [15:55] <@davidb> Stevef: i basically have to search bugzilla to refresh the arguments in my head
  97. # [15:55] <Stevef> i can do that, the role=document refers to http://people.gnome.org/~billh/at-spi-idl/html/classAccessibility_1_1Document.html in ATI for example?
  98. # [15:56] <Stevef> SPI I mean
  99. # [15:58] <Stevef> artcile as defined in ARIA and HTML is really a section role: The object is a containing instance of document content which constitutes a particular 'logical' section of the document. The type of content within a section, and the nature of the section division itself, may be obtained by querying the object's attributes. Sections may be nested.
  100. # [15:58] <Stevef> there is very little between them
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  102. # [15:59] <@davidb> Stevef: if we can make it better without breaking nvda i'll file the bug
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  104. # [15:59] <Stevef> OK will look into it
  105. # [15:59] <Stevef> thanks
  106. # [15:59] <@davidb> Stevef: note we do expose the article object attribute so maybe nvda gives that precedence
  107. # [16:00] <@davidb> maybe the role is really for back porting to older AT that don't check attribetus
  108. # [16:00] <@davidb> otherwise the article-ness is not at all conveyed
  109. # [16:00] <@davidb> but i think the concern about back porting has led to technical debt :(
  110. # [16:01] <Stevef> right, I am wondering if anything actually makes use of it, thing is 'article' really does not have any 'articleness about it or used in that way
  111. # [16:02] <Stevef> as in the example each comment in a blog post is marked up as an article
  112. # [16:03] <Stevef> anwyay its just me noodling around, taking up others time...
  113. # [16:03] <Stevef> trying to make sense of semantics - a fools errand
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  115. # [16:04] <@marcoz> stevef: That may be part of the problem: Trying to make sense of semantics in some way, and in some point of history, it was decided to map it this way, and may or may not be accurate any more, or in conflict with more recent interpretation of the semantics. ;)
  116. # [16:04] <Stevef> marcoz:yep
  117. # [16:07] <@marcoz> stevef: There also was discussion way way back that included some form of auto-editable state for a certain role/HTML5 tag, but I no longer remember which it was. In essence it was something about contentEditable not having to be specified if a certain tag would be used.
  118. # [16:07] <Stevef> marcoz: thanks makes a little more sense
  119. # [16:11] <@marcoz> stevef: Oh, really? :)
  120. # [16:12] <Stevef> marcoz: well if document interface provides something...
  121. # [16:21] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 702289 on bug 830748.
  122. # [16:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=830748 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Improve reading of table semantics
  123. # [16:29] <Stevef> davidb: i see a bug which i want to re-open do i have to refile?
  124. # [16:30] <@davidb> Stevef: it depends
  125. # [16:30] <Stevef> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610650
  126. # [16:30] <@firebot> Bug 610650 nor, --, mozilla7, dbolter, RESO FIXED, Change implementation of HTML5 landmark elements to conform to implementor guidelines
  127. # [16:31] <Stevef> want to provide new info on header/footer use and suggestions for modded implementation
  128. # [16:32] <@davidb> Stevef: i'd file a new one, only so that people don't need to read/scroll so far each time they visit the bug
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  130. # [16:32] <Stevef> sure and relate the 2?
  131. # [16:32] <@davidb> yeah
  132. # [16:32] <Stevef> thnks
  133. # [16:32] <@davidb> make the new one depend on the old one (i think)
  134. # [16:32] <askalski> hi everyone!
  135. # [16:32] <@davidb> hi askalski!
  136. # [16:35] <@marcoz> Hi askalski!
  137. # [16:35] <@marcoz> stevef: davidb: I think it's "block" the old one. Since this is a modification to the fix provided in the old bug.
  138. # [16:35] <Stevef> marcoz: ok thanks
  139. # [16:35] <@marcoz> "depends" means "this one can't be fixed until that other one is", at least the way I see the two used most of the time.
  140. # [16:36] <@davidb> yeah i get mixed up a lot
  141. # [16:38] <@marcoz> Me too, I always have to consciously input these whenever I need to, it's nothing that enters flesh and blood at some point, at least not for me.
  142. # [16:39] <@davidb> that is slightly disturbing :)
  143. # [16:39] <@davidb> i'm betting something is lost in translation there… perhaps a german phrase or something :)
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  146. # [17:28] <@davidb> tbsaunde: convince who?
  147. # [17:30] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i think you are confused about my position on this bug.
  148. # [17:33] <@tbsaunde> davidb: you would == davidb since I was replying to you
  149. # [17:33] <@davidb> tbsaunde: then i am quite confused
  150. # [17:33] <@tbsaunde> oh?
  151. # [17:33] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you treating my r- as treating the idea as completely unacceptable?
  152. # [17:34] <@tbsaunde> as far as I can tell that is what you actually think
  153. # [17:34] <@davidb> nope
  154. # [17:34] <@davidb> i'm now trying to figure out why you think that
  155. # [17:34] <@tbsaunde> because its rediculiously obvious we shouldn't build a11y on b2g?
  156. # [17:35] <satdav> davidb, did you see the agenda i made for yesterdays meeting what no one came to
  157. # [17:36] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i'm trying to discuss data, and new ideas only… to understand both sides… i don't think repeating things helps.
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  159. # [17:36] <@tbsaunde> so, I'm not really convinced there is another side to this that's sane
  160. # [17:37] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i thought i made it clear in IRC yesterday how i agreed with you but what were additional concerns i thought existed in the bug and on irc.
  161. # [17:37] <@tbsaunde> I think I answered all of your concerns?
  162. # [17:37] <@davidb> tbsaunde: calling the other side insane really doesn't help. trust me on this. it gets in the way.
  163. # [17:38] <@tbsaunde> that maybe, but it is what I think
  164. # [17:38] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yes… if you think you answered all the concerns (i don't know why you give me sole ownership of them)… that would have made a better bug comment.
  165. # [17:38] <@tbsaunde> what do you mean sole ownership?
  166. # [17:39] <@davidb> tbsaunde: were you able to discuss eitan's concerns yesterday?
  167. # [17:39] <@tbsaunde> davidb: we talked about them some
  168. # [17:40] <@tbsaunde> but I don't see why that matters they aren't *your* concerns
  169. # [17:40] <@davidb> tbsaunde: had to back channel briefly since it involves partners
  170. # [17:40] <@tbsaunde> and besides he's just wrong so I'm not really intereested
  171. # [17:40] <@davidb> tbsaunde: because i'm trying to act as a facilitator/moderator.
  172. # [17:40] <@davidb> that is an unhelpful statement
  173. # [17:41] <@tbsaunde> ok?
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  195. # [19:39] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org denied review for attachment 702289 on bug 830748.
  196. # [19:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=830748 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, ASSI, [AccessFu] Improve reading of table semantics
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  202. # [20:23] <@davidb> tbsaunde: please check PM
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  211. # [21:57] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it built
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  215. # [22:09] <@tbsaunde> davidb: good, not that I'm suprised
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  235. # Session Close: Fri Jan 18 00:00:01 2013

The end :)