/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-01-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jan 31 00:00:01 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  7. # [01:01] <satdav> hub, ping
  8. # [01:01] <satdav> do you know if i can add something to the wiki
  9. # [01:02] <satdav> about a site
  10. # [01:02] <satdav> to see for accessibility
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  22. # Session Start: Thu Jan 31 03:48:51 2013
  23. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  27. # [03:49] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone"'
  28. # [03:49] * Set by davidb on Tue Aug 07 14:29:32
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  31. # [06:27] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 650294 from nobody@mozilla.org to hub@mozilla.com.
  32. # [06:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650294 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, accessible/events/test_caretmove.xul fails on OSX
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  52. # [11:04] <fxa90id_> hi
  53. # [11:04] <fxa90id_> there is a little problem
  54. # [11:05] <fxa90id_> when I tab, seperate I cant make fullscreen when watching something on youtube
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  58. # [12:00] <Stevef> marcoz: thanks! its important that users are heard in these discussions as they are often riddled with misinformation (as can be seen from the comments)
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  60. # [12:02] <Stevef> marcoz:it also helps that you are an experienced acc engineer who also happens to be a user ;-)
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  67. # [12:36] <icaaq> http://www.modern.ie has implemented the same menbar/menuitem navigation as mozilla had before. and you can not access the links with the virtual cursor in voice over
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  74. # [13:24] <@marcoz> Stevef: Thanks, yeah I am always grateful for pointers towards such discussions. I know a lot of web workers who definitely do their own screen reader testing, and I sometimes get questions about the concept of virtual cursor, forms/focus mode etc., but I also encounter those who work this on a purely theoretical level and don't know what it's actually like to browse the web with a screen reader.
  75. # [13:25] <@marcoz> Stevef: I also don't remember *one* presentation I gave before a web developer audience where I did not hear that someone had never heard a web page talk before. There's always someone there who, even may be being a long-time web dev, has never seen a screen reader in action. *Always*.
  76. # [13:26] <@marcoz> Stevef: That's also why I think it's important to take the topic of accessibility in general out there to venues like SXSW and demo them there. And as biased as it may sound: Screen readers often leave a permanent impression on people, much more than zooming or speech input control.
  77. # [13:40] <icaaq> Stevef marcoz can you navigate youselfs on http://www.modern.ie ? In voiceover it's impossible but when I try in fx and nvda I can find the links but when i click on them using enter I dont come to the page I clicked at. it just reloads the page...
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  79. # [13:50] <icaaq> Stevef: marcoz I mean the main navigation links, home, scan a webpage, virtual tools and so on...
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  81. # [14:03] <@marcoz> icaaq: Stevef: Oh yeah, I don't know *what* is going on, but it seems a) VoiceOver isn't able to keyboard-focus the link one lands on, nor perform the action (Ctrl+Option+Space) on any of the menu items. Seems only Tab and Enter are guaranteed full keyboard access, other screen reader means fail. I can also repro the NVDA/FF problem you describe.
  82. # [14:10] <icaaq> marcoz: if i turn of nvda and use the keyboard to navigate the links it works as expected. strange…
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  88. # [15:18] <marcoz> icaaq: Yeah, NVDA intercepts keystrokes when the virtual buffer is active. Among them: Enter. That's why that key sometimes behaves differently.
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  90. # [15:20] <icaaq> marcoz: strange that it just reloads the page though, where do it get that from?
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  93. # [15:21] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
  94. # [15:22] <@marcoz> icaaq: No idea TBH. It may try to do a mouse-click, and due to some weird markup, miss it. or do a default action, which also executes something wrong.
  95. # [15:22] <icaaq> marcoz: here http://icaaq.com/sandbox/modern.htm i moved the role="menuitem" to the link instead and it works better. but it feels wrong. I'm just trying to understand...
  96. # [15:23] <@davidb> heyo!
  97. # [15:31] <@davidb> marcoz: can you confirm bug 599814?
  98. # [15:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=599814 cri, --, ---, dbolter, REOP, Some pages like sinclairhoerspiele.de come up with all accessibles unknown and the windows having th
  99. # [15:32] <@davidb> I'm concerned about that one and bug 781971
  100. # [15:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781971 cri, P3, ---, nobody, NEW, Firefox hangs and finally crashes when using Accessible Event Watcher(AccEvent) and flash
  101. # [15:33] <@marcoz> davidb: Sheesh, that page I initially found the bug on has been quite revamped since then. I couldn't reproduce it later when I was attempting to. And I cannot now, either.
  102. # [15:34] <@marcoz> davidb: I also can use Youtube without problems for some reason. I have not been able to confirm bug 781971 with JAWS, for example.
  103. # [15:35] <@marcoz> (and yes, I know this doesn't make life easier)
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  105. # [15:45] <@davidb> marcoz: can you comment that in both bugs please?
  106. # [15:45] <@davidb> i'll try to recreate today
  107. # [15:58] <@marcoz> davidb: Scratch the part about bug 781971, I was just able to reproduce it with Window-Eyes.
  108. # [15:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781971 cri, P3, ---, nobody, NEW, Firefox hangs and finally crashes when using Accessible Event Watcher(AccEvent) and flash
  109. # [15:59] <@davidb> marcoz: ok, it is still worth noting jaws findings too
  110. # [15:59] <@davidb> everything helps
  111. # [15:59] <@marcoz> davidb: And I had to turn off click to play, as at least my version of WE isn't able to click that "Click to activate Flash plugin" thing. Think we need to make that something explicit rather than just a clickble div or something.
  112. # [16:00] <@davidb> that's… that seems odd
  113. # [16:01] <@marcoz> davidb: Yeah it does.
  114. # [16:02] <@davidb> worth noting
  115. # [16:02] * @davidb updates nightly in windows vm
  116. # [16:22] <@marcoz> davidb: Filed a bug on the HTML snippet: bug 836746
  117. # [16:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=836746 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Click To Play HTML bit not recognized by all screen readers
  118. # [16:23] <@davidb> ok
  119. # [16:23] <@marcoz> (not sure if it's in the right component, though, but didn't find one under the Firefox product.)
  120. # [16:25] <@marcoz> Gosh, why do all these commercial screen readers have to be so bulky? NVDA is so nice and snappy and light-weight, but all the others are so damn heavy-weight!
  121. # [16:31] <@marcoz> davidb: Do you have any data to help Karen with her inquiry? Do we gather anything useful from metrics on the use of Android a11y?
  122. # [16:34] <@davidb> marcoz: i have a standing request for that - bug 819516
  123. # [16:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=819516 is not accessible
  124. # [16:36] <@davidb> marcoz: regarding best in class, do you have an opinion?
  125. # [16:38] <@marcoz> davidb: On Android, we're definitely best in class I think. The standard browser and Chrome both lack our reliability in handling gestures.
  126. # [16:39] <@davidb> marcoz: heh i just wrote that first sentence in my email reply
  127. # [16:39] <@marcoz> If you compare it to iOS, we're not explsing all of the possible user-interesting stuff yet, like landmarks and tables, so I'd say we're close, but not fully on par yet.
  128. # [16:39] <@davidb> marcoz: can you also chime in because 'definitely' is a good adjective
  129. # [16:40] <@marcoz> LOL
  130. # [16:45] <@marcoz> davidb: Replied.
  131. # [16:57] * @marcoz needs to update the firmware on his MacBook. BBIAB.
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  149. # [19:45] <@davidb> hi tbsaunde
  150. # [19:54] <@tbsaunde> davidb: hey
  151. # [19:54] <@davidb> hey yeah i talked to you in person since :)
  152. # [19:59] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, but I don't have time stamps on messages :)
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  157. # [20:00] <davidb> i thought that might be the case
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  163. # [21:29] <fxa90id> howdy howdy ?
  164. # [21:29] <@tbsaunde> hi
  165. # [21:29] <fxa90id> how its going ?
  166. # [21:30] <fxa90id> seen lot of messages from firefox
  167. # [21:30] <fxa90id> :-)
  168. # [21:30] <fxa90id> Is there any bug which can I pick ? :-)
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  171. # [21:31] <fxa90id> oh never mind
  172. # [21:31] <fxa90id> I see I didnt finish my last two
  173. # [21:31] <fxa90id> but still need to talk with surkov
  174. # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> you can probably ask me whatever you want to ask him :)
  175. # [21:33] <fxa90id> ;>
  176. # [21:33] <fxa90id> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722417 Its still
  177. # [21:33] <fxa90id> em
  178. # [21:33] <fxa90id> dont know how to say it
  179. # [21:33] <@firebot> Bug 722417 nor, --, ---, michaljev, ASSI, Expose intended visibility.
  180. # [21:33] <fxa90id> its not done yet yes ?
  181. # [21:33] <fxa90id> :p
  182. # [21:34] <fxa90id> or something changed ?
  183. # [21:38] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  184. # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: afaik nobodies even started on it really
  185. # [21:49] * Joins: askalski (akuda@2BA4E5A7.CC7751E8.6712E96B.IP)
  186. # [21:49] <fxa90id> yeah true :p
  187. # [21:49] <fxa90id> then Its all to do yes ;> ?
  188. # [21:49] <fxa90id> Im so dumb :<
  189. # [21:50] <fxa90id> I wouldnt like to be programmer
  190. # [21:50] <fxa90id> should become tax-gatherer
  191. # [21:52] <askalski> hi everyone! hope you are well
  192. # [21:53] <@tbsaunde> askalski: hey, yeah
  193. # [21:53] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: yes
  194. # [21:53] <askalski> tbsaunde, found a job.
  195. # [21:54] <askalski> tbsaunde, not a11y unfortunately :(
  196. # [21:54] <fxa90id> tbsaunde, yes for "you should become tax-gatherer" :D ?
  197. # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: well, for the bug part
  198. # [21:55] <fxa90id> ;p
  199. # [21:55] <fxa90id> oh ok
  200. # [21:55] <fxa90id> :-)
  201. # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: I wouldn't wish being a tax collector on anybody, but you should do what you are good at and like
  202. # [21:56] <fxa90id> :D
  203. # [21:56] <fxa90id> I want to be programmer like you :-)
  204. # [21:56] <davidb> askalski: yeah? where/what?
  205. # [21:57] <davidb> that's great
  206. # [21:57] * davidb has a meeting in 7
  207. # [21:57] * davidb minutes
  208. # [21:57] <@hub> askalski: congrats
  209. # [22:01] <askalski> hub, thanks!
  210. # [22:01] <@hub> askalski: what is the job?
  211. # [22:02] <askalski> hub, in gamedev, Polish company. engine developer.
  212. # [22:02] <@hub> nice
  213. # [22:02] <fxa90id> uuuu
  214. # [22:02] <askalski> hub, well I miss Mozilla :D, but yeah, nice enough
  215. # [22:02] <fxa90id> I am getting jelous
  216. # [22:03] <fxa90id> em
  217. # [22:03] <askalski> fxa90id, you're going to USA this year
  218. # [22:03] <fxa90id> I mean Jealous :D
  219. # [22:03] * eeejay waves
  220. # [22:03] <askalski> fxa90id, what else you want?
  221. # [22:03] <eeejay> social flurry
  222. # [22:03] <fxa90id> :D
  223. # [22:03] <fxa90id> t-shirt :(
  224. # [22:04] <askalski> btw, I have seen firefox OS in real
  225. # [22:04] <askalski> the preview device, at small conference in Poland
  226. # [22:04] <@hub> I have flurries. of the snow variety
  227. # [22:04] <askalski> nice job
  228. # [22:04] <@hub> askalski: it is very different than what you saw last year
  229. # [22:05] * Joins: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com)
  230. # [22:05] <askalski> hub, well last year I haven't seen much, but what I remember, is that guy's from a-team almost forgot about desktop browser, they were so busy testing b2g :D
  231. # [22:05] * davidb is on a call
  232. # [22:06] <fxa90id> how to get device with Firefox OS ?
  233. # [22:06] <@hub> fxa90id: be patient
  234. # [22:06] <askalski> fxa90id, well, either buy some of supported devices, build yourself
  235. # [22:06] <@hub> fxa90id: the geeksphone will be available soon
  236. # [22:06] <fxa90id> true
  237. # [22:06] <fxa90id> I got email
  238. # [22:06] <fxa90id> that its availiable for programmers
  239. # [22:06] <@hub> it is not available yet
  240. # [22:07] <askalski> hub, I put myself on e-mail reminder list
  241. # [22:07] <fxa90id> oh :<
  242. # [22:07] <@hub> soon
  243. # [22:07] <askalski> ok, I go back to eat
  244. # [22:08] <askalski> see you soon
  245. # [22:08] <fxa90id> is its going to be availiable in poland ? :-)
  246. # [22:08] <@hub> I don't have the answer, but I'm sure it will be easier to order it from Poland than from Canada
  247. # [22:08] <@hub> since they are in Spain
  248. # [22:09] <@hub> EU rules
  249. # [22:10] <fxa90id> :D
  250. # [22:10] <fxa90id> than its not gonna be availiable in poland :D
  251. # [22:10] <askalski> hub, check the google play store policy, before stating EU rules
  252. # [22:11] <@hub> askalski: we are talking physical goods vs virtual
  253. # [22:11] <askalski> hub, EU is totally split between "first" and "second" countries
  254. # [22:11] <@hub> askalski: and then we are talking GOOGLE
  255. # [22:11] <askalski> hub, no, I talk for example LG policy
  256. # [22:11] <@hub> GOOGLE
  257. # [22:11] <askalski> hub, :D
  258. # [22:11] <@hub> and yes it apply the same way for us Canadians
  259. # [22:12] <fxa90id> Firefox should have own search engine
  260. # [22:12] <@hub> NAFTA isn't for Free Trade
  261. # [22:12] <@hub> it is to protect the riches
  262. # [22:12] <@hub> and Canadians get f******
  263. # [22:12] <askalski> hub, you do realize, it's a public channel, right :D?
  264. # [22:12] <@hub> these big companies like to control markets by regions
  265. # [22:12] <@hub> reminds me of Nokia
  266. # [22:13] <@hub> couldn't get a developer device
  267. # [22:13] <@hub> because I was in Canada
  268. # [22:13] <askalski> ok, I really need to go :), see you soon
  269. # [22:13] <@hub> "sorry but each region decide what they want to sell. We cannot take your money"
  270. # [22:13] * Quits: askalski (akuda@2BA4E5A7.CC7751E8.6712E96B.IP) (Quit: Wychodzi)
  271. # [22:13] <@hub> the easiness I'm talking about is trade / customs.
  272. # [22:13] <@hub> the second barrier
  273. # [22:14] <fxa90id> :)
  274. # [22:14] <@hub> anyway
  275. # [22:15] <fxa90id> then I would be really glad getting one device
  276. # [22:16] <fxa90id> anyway why their are made in spain ?
  277. # [22:16] <fxa90id> poland is much cheaper :D
  278. # [22:20] <fxa90id> anyway Im getting to work :<
  279. # [22:21] <fxa90id> bug is waiting for me
  280. # [22:21] <fxa90id> and everyone seem to be busy :d
  281. # [22:22] <@hub> fxa90id: made I don't know, but the company is in spain
  282. # [22:22] <fxa90id> hmm
  283. # [22:23] <fxa90id> anyway :D I should go now and stop interupting you all :D
  284. # [22:43] * Quits: davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
  285. # [22:43] * Quits: habber (habber@moz-861E573F.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  286. # [22:50] * Joins: habber (habber@moz-861E573F.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  287. # [22:51] * Quits: @jprmc (jprmc@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Ping timeout)
  288. # [22:51] * Joins: satdav (satdav@moz-2B0F19ED.cable.virginmedia.com)
  289. # [22:52] * Quits: victorporof (victorporo@C8AAC426.1C233438.79933D60.IP) (Quit: victorporof)
  290. # [22:52] * Quits: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  291. # [22:59] <@tbsaunde> khuey: hey, what do I have to do to the packaging goo if I'm kiling an xpt?
  292. # [22:59] <satdav> tbsaunde, you on the mailing list for mozilla accessibility
  293. # [23:01] <@tbsaunde> satdav: yes
  294. # [23:07] <khuey> tbsaunde: remove foo.xpt from all the different package-manifest.in files
  295. # [23:07] <satdav> tbsaunde, do you have much experience with websites
  296. # [23:07] <satdav> or do you khuey
  297. # [23:09] <@tbsaunde> satdav: not sure what you mean by that
  298. # [23:10] <@tbsaunde> khuey: ok, wasn't sure if I needed to remove from the removed file thingy
  299. # [23:13] <khuey> nah
  300. # [23:13] <khuey> don't think so
  301. # [23:14] <satdav> tbsaunde, for website related issues like contents or screen reader
  302. # [23:20] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  303. # [23:25] * Quits: habber (habber@moz-861E573F.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Quit: habber)
  304. # [23:28] <@tbsaunde> satdav: noap
  305. # [23:28] <@tbsaunde> khuey: cool thx
  306. # [23:28] <satdav> tbsaunde, I know you use a screen reader i believe
  307. # [23:29] <@tbsaunde> satdav: yes
  308. # [23:37] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
  309. # [23:44] <satdav> tbsaunde, can you test a site for us at #sumo on your reader
  310. # [23:45] * Joins: Tyler (Thunderbir@moz-62B4676E.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
  311. # [23:45] <@tbsaunde> satdav: no, I'm about to leave
  312. # [23:46] <satdav> when will you be free
  313. # [23:46] <satdav> I know roland added it on the accessibility list tbsaunde
  314. # [23:46] * Parts: Tyler (Thunderbir@moz-62B4676E.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
  315. # [23:47] <satdav> will add it for wednesday meeting
  316. # [23:47] <satdav> if its better for everyone to test it
  317. # [23:47] <@tbsaunde> satdav: I have no idea what your talking about
  318. # [23:48] <satdav> OK
  319. # [23:49] <satdav> will email it on the list
  320. # [23:54] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
  321. # Session Close: Fri Feb 01 00:00:00 2013

The end :)