/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-01-31 / end
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- # Session Start: Thu Jan 31 00:00:01 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [01:01] <satdav> hub, ping
- # [01:01] <satdav> do you know if i can add something to the wiki
- # [01:02] <satdav> about a site
- # [01:02] <satdav> to see for accessibility
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- # Session Close: Thu Jan 31 03:48:51 2013
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- # Session Start: Thu Jan 31 03:48:51 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [03:49] * Topic is '"build the web for everyone"'
- # [03:49] * Set by davidb on Tue Aug 07 14:29:32
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- # [06:27] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 650294 from nobody@mozilla.org to hub@mozilla.com.
- # [06:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=650294 nor, --, ---, hub, NEW, accessible/events/test_caretmove.xul fails on OSX
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- # [11:04] <fxa90id_> hi
- # [11:04] <fxa90id_> there is a little problem
- # [11:05] <fxa90id_> when I tab, seperate I cant make fullscreen when watching something on youtube
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- # [12:00] <Stevef> marcoz: thanks! its important that users are heard in these discussions as they are often riddled with misinformation (as can be seen from the comments)
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- # [12:02] <Stevef> marcoz:it also helps that you are an experienced acc engineer who also happens to be a user ;-)
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- # [12:36] <icaaq> http://www.modern.ie has implemented the same menbar/menuitem navigation as mozilla had before. and you can not access the links with the virtual cursor in voice over
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- # [13:24] <@marcoz> Stevef: Thanks, yeah I am always grateful for pointers towards such discussions. I know a lot of web workers who definitely do their own screen reader testing, and I sometimes get questions about the concept of virtual cursor, forms/focus mode etc., but I also encounter those who work this on a purely theoretical level and don't know what it's actually like to browse the web with a screen reader.
- # [13:25] <@marcoz> Stevef: I also don't remember *one* presentation I gave before a web developer audience where I did not hear that someone had never heard a web page talk before. There's always someone there who, even may be being a long-time web dev, has never seen a screen reader in action. *Always*.
- # [13:26] <@marcoz> Stevef: That's also why I think it's important to take the topic of accessibility in general out there to venues like SXSW and demo them there. And as biased as it may sound: Screen readers often leave a permanent impression on people, much more than zooming or speech input control.
- # [13:40] <icaaq> Stevef marcoz can you navigate youselfs on http://www.modern.ie ? In voiceover it's impossible but when I try in fx and nvda I can find the links but when i click on them using enter I dont come to the page I clicked at. it just reloads the page...
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- # [13:50] <icaaq> Stevef: marcoz I mean the main navigation links, home, scan a webpage, virtual tools and so on...
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- # [14:03] <@marcoz> icaaq: Stevef: Oh yeah, I don't know *what* is going on, but it seems a) VoiceOver isn't able to keyboard-focus the link one lands on, nor perform the action (Ctrl+Option+Space) on any of the menu items. Seems only Tab and Enter are guaranteed full keyboard access, other screen reader means fail. I can also repro the NVDA/FF problem you describe.
- # [14:10] <icaaq> marcoz: if i turn of nvda and use the keyboard to navigate the links it works as expected. strange…
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- # [15:18] <marcoz> icaaq: Yeah, NVDA intercepts keystrokes when the virtual buffer is active. Among them: Enter. That's why that key sometimes behaves differently.
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- # [15:20] <icaaq> marcoz: strange that it just reloads the page though, where do it get that from?
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- # [15:21] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
- # [15:22] <@marcoz> icaaq: No idea TBH. It may try to do a mouse-click, and due to some weird markup, miss it. or do a default action, which also executes something wrong.
- # [15:22] <icaaq> marcoz: here http://icaaq.com/sandbox/modern.htm i moved the role="menuitem" to the link instead and it works better. but it feels wrong. I'm just trying to understand...
- # [15:23] <@davidb> heyo!
- # [15:31] <@davidb> marcoz: can you confirm bug 599814?
- # [15:31] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=599814 cri, --, ---, dbolter, REOP, Some pages like sinclairhoerspiele.de come up with all accessibles unknown and the windows having th
- # [15:32] <@davidb> I'm concerned about that one and bug 781971
- # [15:32] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781971 cri, P3, ---, nobody, NEW, Firefox hangs and finally crashes when using Accessible Event Watcher(AccEvent) and flash
- # [15:33] <@marcoz> davidb: Sheesh, that page I initially found the bug on has been quite revamped since then. I couldn't reproduce it later when I was attempting to. And I cannot now, either.
- # [15:34] <@marcoz> davidb: I also can use Youtube without problems for some reason. I have not been able to confirm bug 781971 with JAWS, for example.
- # [15:35] <@marcoz> (and yes, I know this doesn't make life easier)
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- # [15:45] <@davidb> marcoz: can you comment that in both bugs please?
- # [15:45] <@davidb> i'll try to recreate today
- # [15:58] <@marcoz> davidb: Scratch the part about bug 781971, I was just able to reproduce it with Window-Eyes.
- # [15:59] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781971 cri, P3, ---, nobody, NEW, Firefox hangs and finally crashes when using Accessible Event Watcher(AccEvent) and flash
- # [15:59] <@davidb> marcoz: ok, it is still worth noting jaws findings too
- # [15:59] <@davidb> everything helps
- # [15:59] <@marcoz> davidb: And I had to turn off click to play, as at least my version of WE isn't able to click that "Click to activate Flash plugin" thing. Think we need to make that something explicit rather than just a clickble div or something.
- # [16:00] <@davidb> that's… that seems odd
- # [16:01] <@marcoz> davidb: Yeah it does.
- # [16:02] <@davidb> worth noting
- # [16:02] * @davidb updates nightly in windows vm
- # [16:22] <@marcoz> davidb: Filed a bug on the HTML snippet: bug 836746
- # [16:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=836746 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Click To Play HTML bit not recognized by all screen readers
- # [16:23] <@davidb> ok
- # [16:23] <@marcoz> (not sure if it's in the right component, though, but didn't find one under the Firefox product.)
- # [16:25] <@marcoz> Gosh, why do all these commercial screen readers have to be so bulky? NVDA is so nice and snappy and light-weight, but all the others are so damn heavy-weight!
- # [16:31] <@marcoz> davidb: Do you have any data to help Karen with her inquiry? Do we gather anything useful from metrics on the use of Android a11y?
- # [16:34] <@davidb> marcoz: i have a standing request for that - bug 819516
- # [16:34] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=819516 is not accessible
- # [16:36] <@davidb> marcoz: regarding best in class, do you have an opinion?
- # [16:38] <@marcoz> davidb: On Android, we're definitely best in class I think. The standard browser and Chrome both lack our reliability in handling gestures.
- # [16:39] <@davidb> marcoz: heh i just wrote that first sentence in my email reply
- # [16:39] <@marcoz> If you compare it to iOS, we're not explsing all of the possible user-interesting stuff yet, like landmarks and tables, so I'd say we're close, but not fully on par yet.
- # [16:39] <@davidb> marcoz: can you also chime in because 'definitely' is a good adjective
- # [16:40] <@marcoz> LOL
- # [16:45] <@marcoz> davidb: Replied.
- # [16:57] * @marcoz needs to update the firmware on his MacBook. BBIAB.
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- # [19:45] <@davidb> hi tbsaunde
- # [19:54] <@tbsaunde> davidb: hey
- # [19:54] <@davidb> hey yeah i talked to you in person since :)
- # [19:59] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, but I don't have time stamps on messages :)
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- # [20:00] <davidb> i thought that might be the case
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- # [21:29] <fxa90id> howdy howdy ?
- # [21:29] <@tbsaunde> hi
- # [21:29] <fxa90id> how its going ?
- # [21:30] <fxa90id> seen lot of messages from firefox
- # [21:30] <fxa90id> :-)
- # [21:30] <fxa90id> Is there any bug which can I pick ? :-)
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- # [21:31] <fxa90id> oh never mind
- # [21:31] <fxa90id> I see I didnt finish my last two
- # [21:31] <fxa90id> but still need to talk with surkov
- # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> you can probably ask me whatever you want to ask him :)
- # [21:33] <fxa90id> ;>
- # [21:33] <fxa90id> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722417 Its still
- # [21:33] <fxa90id> em
- # [21:33] <fxa90id> dont know how to say it
- # [21:33] <@firebot> Bug 722417 nor, --, ---, michaljev, ASSI, Expose intended visibility.
- # [21:33] <fxa90id> its not done yet yes ?
- # [21:33] <fxa90id> :p
- # [21:34] <fxa90id> or something changed ?
- # [21:38] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [21:46] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: afaik nobodies even started on it really
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- # [21:49] <fxa90id> yeah true :p
- # [21:49] <fxa90id> then Its all to do yes ;> ?
- # [21:49] <fxa90id> Im so dumb :<
- # [21:50] <fxa90id> I wouldnt like to be programmer
- # [21:50] <fxa90id> should become tax-gatherer
- # [21:52] <askalski> hi everyone! hope you are well
- # [21:53] <@tbsaunde> askalski: hey, yeah
- # [21:53] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: yes
- # [21:53] <askalski> tbsaunde, found a job.
- # [21:54] <askalski> tbsaunde, not a11y unfortunately :(
- # [21:54] <fxa90id> tbsaunde, yes for "you should become tax-gatherer" :D ?
- # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: well, for the bug part
- # [21:55] <fxa90id> ;p
- # [21:55] <fxa90id> oh ok
- # [21:55] <fxa90id> :-)
- # [21:55] <@tbsaunde> fxa90id: I wouldn't wish being a tax collector on anybody, but you should do what you are good at and like
- # [21:56] <fxa90id> :D
- # [21:56] <fxa90id> I want to be programmer like you :-)
- # [21:56] <davidb> askalski: yeah? where/what?
- # [21:57] <davidb> that's great
- # [21:57] * davidb has a meeting in 7
- # [21:57] * davidb minutes
- # [21:57] <@hub> askalski: congrats
- # [22:01] <askalski> hub, thanks!
- # [22:01] <@hub> askalski: what is the job?
- # [22:02] <askalski> hub, in gamedev, Polish company. engine developer.
- # [22:02] <@hub> nice
- # [22:02] <fxa90id> uuuu
- # [22:02] <askalski> hub, well I miss Mozilla :D, but yeah, nice enough
- # [22:02] <fxa90id> I am getting jelous
- # [22:03] <fxa90id> em
- # [22:03] <askalski> fxa90id, you're going to USA this year
- # [22:03] <fxa90id> I mean Jealous :D
- # [22:03] * eeejay waves
- # [22:03] <askalski> fxa90id, what else you want?
- # [22:03] <eeejay> social flurry
- # [22:03] <fxa90id> :D
- # [22:03] <fxa90id> t-shirt :(
- # [22:04] <askalski> btw, I have seen firefox OS in real
- # [22:04] <askalski> the preview device, at small conference in Poland
- # [22:04] <@hub> I have flurries. of the snow variety
- # [22:04] <askalski> nice job
- # [22:04] <@hub> askalski: it is very different than what you saw last year
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- # [22:05] <askalski> hub, well last year I haven't seen much, but what I remember, is that guy's from a-team almost forgot about desktop browser, they were so busy testing b2g :D
- # [22:05] * davidb is on a call
- # [22:06] <fxa90id> how to get device with Firefox OS ?
- # [22:06] <@hub> fxa90id: be patient
- # [22:06] <askalski> fxa90id, well, either buy some of supported devices, build yourself
- # [22:06] <@hub> fxa90id: the geeksphone will be available soon
- # [22:06] <fxa90id> true
- # [22:06] <fxa90id> I got email
- # [22:06] <fxa90id> that its availiable for programmers
- # [22:06] <@hub> it is not available yet
- # [22:07] <askalski> hub, I put myself on e-mail reminder list
- # [22:07] <fxa90id> oh :<
- # [22:07] <@hub> soon
- # [22:07] <askalski> ok, I go back to eat
- # [22:08] <askalski> see you soon
- # [22:08] <fxa90id> is its going to be availiable in poland ? :-)
- # [22:08] <@hub> I don't have the answer, but I'm sure it will be easier to order it from Poland than from Canada
- # [22:08] <@hub> since they are in Spain
- # [22:09] <@hub> EU rules
- # [22:10] <fxa90id> :D
- # [22:10] <fxa90id> than its not gonna be availiable in poland :D
- # [22:10] <askalski> hub, check the google play store policy, before stating EU rules
- # [22:11] <@hub> askalski: we are talking physical goods vs virtual
- # [22:11] <askalski> hub, EU is totally split between "first" and "second" countries
- # [22:11] <@hub> askalski: and then we are talking GOOGLE
- # [22:11] <askalski> hub, no, I talk for example LG policy
- # [22:11] <@hub> GOOGLE
- # [22:11] <askalski> hub, :D
- # [22:11] <@hub> and yes it apply the same way for us Canadians
- # [22:12] <fxa90id> Firefox should have own search engine
- # [22:12] <@hub> NAFTA isn't for Free Trade
- # [22:12] <@hub> it is to protect the riches
- # [22:12] <@hub> and Canadians get f******
- # [22:12] <askalski> hub, you do realize, it's a public channel, right :D?
- # [22:12] <@hub> these big companies like to control markets by regions
- # [22:12] <@hub> reminds me of Nokia
- # [22:13] <@hub> couldn't get a developer device
- # [22:13] <@hub> because I was in Canada
- # [22:13] <askalski> ok, I really need to go :), see you soon
- # [22:13] <@hub> "sorry but each region decide what they want to sell. We cannot take your money"
- # [22:13] * Quits: askalski (akuda@2BA4E5A7.CC7751E8.6712E96B.IP) (Quit: Wychodzi)
- # [22:13] <@hub> the easiness I'm talking about is trade / customs.
- # [22:13] <@hub> the second barrier
- # [22:14] <fxa90id> :)
- # [22:14] <@hub> anyway
- # [22:15] <fxa90id> then I would be really glad getting one device
- # [22:16] <fxa90id> anyway why their are made in spain ?
- # [22:16] <fxa90id> poland is much cheaper :D
- # [22:20] <fxa90id> anyway Im getting to work :<
- # [22:21] <fxa90id> bug is waiting for me
- # [22:21] <fxa90id> and everyone seem to be busy :d
- # [22:22] <@hub> fxa90id: made I don't know, but the company is in spain
- # [22:22] <fxa90id> hmm
- # [22:23] <fxa90id> anyway :D I should go now and stop interupting you all :D
- # [22:43] * Quits: davidb (davidb@F2D29657.F60B0462.67AC9B1.IP) (Quit: davidb)
- # [22:43] * Quits: habber (habber@moz-861E573F.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [22:50] * Joins: habber (habber@moz-861E573F.nyc.biz.rr.com)
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- # [22:51] * Joins: satdav (satdav@moz-2B0F19ED.cable.virginmedia.com)
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- # [22:59] <@tbsaunde> khuey: hey, what do I have to do to the packaging goo if I'm kiling an xpt?
- # [22:59] <satdav> tbsaunde, you on the mailing list for mozilla accessibility
- # [23:01] <@tbsaunde> satdav: yes
- # [23:07] <khuey> tbsaunde: remove foo.xpt from all the different package-manifest.in files
- # [23:07] <satdav> tbsaunde, do you have much experience with websites
- # [23:07] <satdav> or do you khuey
- # [23:09] <@tbsaunde> satdav: not sure what you mean by that
- # [23:10] <@tbsaunde> khuey: ok, wasn't sure if I needed to remove from the removed file thingy
- # [23:13] <khuey> nah
- # [23:13] <khuey> don't think so
- # [23:14] <satdav> tbsaunde, for website related issues like contents or screen reader
- # [23:20] * Quits: Stevef (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
- # [23:25] * Quits: habber (habber@moz-861E573F.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Quit: habber)
- # [23:28] <@tbsaunde> satdav: noap
- # [23:28] <@tbsaunde> khuey: cool thx
- # [23:28] <satdav> tbsaunde, I know you use a screen reader i believe
- # [23:29] <@tbsaunde> satdav: yes
- # [23:37] * Quits: scott_gonzalez (scott_gonz@moz-91C81A39.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: scott_gonzalez)
- # [23:44] <satdav> tbsaunde, can you test a site for us at #sumo on your reader
- # [23:45] * Joins: Tyler (Thunderbir@moz-62B4676E.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
- # [23:45] <@tbsaunde> satdav: no, I'm about to leave
- # [23:46] <satdav> when will you be free
- # [23:46] <satdav> I know roland added it on the accessibility list tbsaunde
- # [23:46] * Parts: Tyler (Thunderbir@moz-62B4676E.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
- # [23:47] <satdav> will add it for wednesday meeting
- # [23:47] <satdav> if its better for everyone to test it
- # [23:47] <@tbsaunde> satdav: I have no idea what your talking about
- # [23:48] <satdav> OK
- # [23:49] <satdav> will email it on the list
- # [23:54] * Quits: Justin_o (Justin_o@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP) (Quit: Justin_o)
- # Session Close: Fri Feb 01 00:00:00 2013
The end :)