/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-03-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Mar 06 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  46. # [03:58] <tbsaunde> !summan surkov
  47. # [03:58] <@surkov> tbsaunde: hi?
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  49. # [04:04] <tbsaunde> surkov: oh hey :)
  50. # [04:04] <tbsaunde> I thought you weren't around yet
  51. # [04:04] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, I was looking int othe gfxSkipCharsIterator assertion
  52. # [04:05] <tbsaunde> bug 637898 if that helps you
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  54. # [04:05] <@surkov> it doesn't help since bugzilla doesn't work :)
  55. # [04:05] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok, wasn't sure if you had old email around or something
  56. # [04:06] <@surkov> nothing helpful in my box
  57. # [04:06] <tbsaunde> surkov: well, as far as I see so far its just this
  58. # [04:06] <tbsaunde> you have <div id="div>olleh<br></div>
  59. # [04:07] <tbsaunde> and you call DeleteText() on the div's accessible
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  62. # [04:07] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, you call SetSelectionBounds(0, 0< 6)
  63. # [04:08] <@surkov> 0<6?
  64. # [04:08] <tbsaunde> o, 6)
  65. # [04:08] <tbsaunde> err, 0, 6)
  66. # [04:08] <@surkov> ok
  67. # [04:09] <tbsaunde> then GetPosAndText() says the end acc for that is the TextLeaf for the text node not the br
  68. # [04:09] <tbsaunde> and so we call RenderedOffsetToContentOffset(textFrame, 6) which ends up asserting
  69. # [04:10] <@surkov> I see
  70. # [04:10] <tbsaunde> so I wonder if you have ideas what's up with GetPosAndText()
  71. # [04:11] <@surkov> it seems all I know it's a kind of mess :)
  72. # [04:11] <@surkov> you need to debug it
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  74. # [04:11] <tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, ok, I was trying to avoid that since reading it made my eyes glaze over
  75. # [04:12] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think that code isn't really readable
  76. # [04:12] <@surkov> I never understood it
  77. # [04:12] <tbsaunde> surkov: I agree, but don't have ideas on making it nice
  78. # [04:12] <tbsaunde> great
  79. # [04:12] <@surkov> me neither, but I never tried :)
  80. # [04:13] <tbsaunde> surkov: did you see my suggestion about the focus assert that maybe its a reason we should stop shutting down doc accessibles on page hide?
  81. # [04:14] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yeah, I saw it but I wasn't in time to answer it :) I'm not exactly sure yet but it seems reasonable
  82. # [04:14] <@surkov> or at least I agree that fix in blur handling might be not a real fix
  83. # [04:16] <@surkov> tbsaunde: btw, I'm looking at GetTextHelper to tweak it a bit, it doesn't intersect with you but saying just in case
  84. # [04:16] <tbsaunde> surkov: it might not be a real fix, but not creating documents there and getting existing one and maybe asserting it exists seems like a good thing to me
  85. # [04:16] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok cool
  86. # [04:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'd guess that document that handled pagehide event should have a some flag and we need to read that flag when we create an accessible
  87. # [04:18] <@surkov> if we add an assertion then we will assert :)
  88. # [04:18] <@surkov> for the problem that lies outside a11y
  89. # [04:20] <tbsaunde> surkov: not sure what you mean
  90. # [04:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I assumed you suggested to add an assertion to blur event handling if there's no accessible document
  91. # [04:22] <tbsaunde> surkov: yes, though only after page hide shutdown is removed
  92. # [04:23] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, what I'm wondiering is if removing page hide stuff will mean we never hit that assertion
  93. # [04:24] <@surkov> maybe but I'd guess we don't need document when page hide is handled
  94. # [04:24] <tbsaunde> surkov: so you think we should stop destroying document on page hide?
  95. # [04:24] <tbsaunde> *shouldn't
  96. # [04:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yeah, I think it'd be better to not create (or try to create) a document received a page hide event
  97. # [04:26] <tbsaunde> surkov: that doesn't seem like what I'm talking about?
  98. # [04:27] <@surkov> as I understood you suggest to destroy document when press hell goes away (instead of page hide)
  99. # [04:27] <@surkov> I think that we don't really need a document after it received page hide event so we can destroy it
  100. # [04:27] <tbsaunde> surkov: yes
  101. # [04:27] <@surkov> thus it's ok to keep that page hide logic
  102. # [04:28] <@surkov> but we need to not assert and not create a document accessible after it received page hide event
  103. # [04:28] <tbsaunde> surkov: on the other hand document is still possibly presentable ntil PresShell goes away so it sort of seems better to not have accessible document go away till pres shell does
  104. # [04:29] <@surkov> probably for a very short time :)
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  106. # [04:30] <@surkov> that'd be a 'big' change since we make document accessible live a bit longer so it scary me a bit
  107. # [04:31] <tbsaunde> surkov: I'm not really saying we should do it in that bug
  108. # [04:31] <@surkov> ok
  109. # [04:31] <tbsaunde> but thing we should probably do at some point
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  111. # [04:32] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I'd like to know relation between page hide and press hell life cycle before doing this
  112. # [04:33] <tbsaunde> surkov: ok
  113. # [04:33] <tbsaunde> surkov: why is keeping doc accessible alive longer particularly worrying?
  114. # [04:33] <@surkov> it can be in "bad" state
  115. # [04:33] <@surkov> I mean DOM document and relatives
  116. # [04:34] <tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I suppose that's possible
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  121. # [04:56] <tbsaunde> surkov: does HyperTextAccessible.cpp:394 look busted to you?
  122. # [04:57] <tbsaunde> I suspect that if should be more like if (aEndAcc && !*aEndAcc) *aEndAcc = lastAcc;
  123. # [04:58] <@surkov> it's sort of hard to be certain
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  136. # [05:14] <tbsaunde> surkov: ?
  137. # [05:14] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ?
  138. # [05:15] <tbsaunde> surkov: does HyperTextAccessible.cpp:394 look busted to you?
  139. # [05:15] <tbsaunde> I suspect that if should be more like if (aEndAcc && !*aEndAcc) *aEndAcc = lastAcc;
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  141. # [05:16] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what you say is reasonable but I can't be 100% sure, perhaps there's a case
  142. # [05:19] <tbsaunde> surkov: neither can I, any ideas on how to check other than run tests and see if the asserts go away?
  143. # [05:20] <@surkov> nothing better comes to my mind
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  154. # [06:08] <tbsaunde> surkov: looks like the actual patch needs to be http://paste.debian.net/240057/ since the last frame stuff seems broken too
  155. # [06:09] <@surkov> ok, do we have a test coverage for this?
  156. # [06:12] <tbsaunde> surkov: I haven't run the whole test suite yet, so not sure about unexpected passes
  157. # [06:12] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I wondered how good our existing test coverage
  158. # [06:12] <tbsaunde> but fixing the assert sort of is a test now, and I'm not actually sure how to test more
  159. # [06:13] <tbsaunde> no idea
  160. # [06:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: does this assertion mean broken behavior?
  161. # [06:15] <tbsaunde> surkov: well, its not our assert, so I'm going to assume it means we use gfxSkipCharsIterator wrong
  162. # [06:15] <@surkov> i just try to understand benefits vs risk
  163. # [06:16] <tbsaunde> surkov: sure
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  168. # [06:52] <@firebot> joshyyuan@gmail.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 721559 on bug 833256.
  169. # [06:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=833256 nor, --, ---, joshyyuan, NEW, role note shouldn't pick up the name from subtree
  170. # [06:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 721559 on bug 833256.
  171. # [06:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) for attachment 721559 on bug 833256.
  172. # [07:05] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 721563 on bug 824662.
  173. # [07:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=824662 nor, --, mozilla22, surkov.alexander, REOP, Intermittent test_takeFocus.html | Can't get accessible for plugin
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  184. # [08:07] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 721577 on bug 845095.
  185. # [08:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=845095 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent Mac states/test_tree.xul | Test timed out. followed by states/test_visibility.html fail
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  193. # [09:33] <@marcoz> Good morning all!
  194. # [09:34] <@marcoz> surkov: Hi! Quick question: Is it expected that NVDA doesn't work with Firefox Nightly yet if it is started from the Windows 8 start menu, e. g. when it runs the Metro UI?
  195. # [09:34] <@surkov> marcoz: I don't know, I didn't follow UIA work for a while
  196. # [09:35] <@surkov> marcoz: did you ask Jamie?
  197. # [09:35] <@marcoz> I seem to remember that there was some work done on our UIA implementation, but that it seemed to be incomplete. NVDA only sees unknown accessibles, except for two containers, one called document and one called AccessibilityBridge or something.
  198. # [09:35] <@surkov> marcoz: I thought that NVDA should work ok without our UIA support
  199. # [09:36] <@marcoz> surkov: No, I wanted to ask you first in case you can tell me that it is not fully implemented yet and that this is expected behavior. I haven't seen work on UIA for quite a while, either. The last I know was that you and jmathies were working on this.
  200. # [09:36] <@surkov> i see
  201. # [09:36] <@marcoz> surkov: NVDA does work if one launches it from the Windows 7 desktop. However, if starting it from the Windows 8 start menu, all of the MSAA stuff doesn't seem to be used.
  202. # [09:37] <@surkov> I wonder about other screen readers like JAWS or WE
  203. # [09:38] <@marcoz> surkov: I haven't tested yet. JAWS does not yet support the Windows 8 UI stuff, this comes in 15 about 6 months from now, as they announced at CSUN. Window-Eyes might work.
  204. # [09:38] <@surkov> that's bad of UIA is required
  205. # [09:38] <@surkov> of -> if
  206. # [09:38] <@marcoz> surkov: I know that NVDA does work definitely, since it supports touch gestures in Windows 8 metro apps, so I thought I'd test with it first.
  207. # [09:39] <@surkov> marcoz: if you're going to ping jamie by email then pls cc me
  208. # [09:39] <@marcoz> I could also try Narrator and see if it gets to any of our info at all. The way it is now, Nightly, when launched from Windows 8 start menu, is completely inaccessible to NVDA.
  209. # [09:40] <@marcoz> surkov: Will definitely do that!
  210. # [09:41] <@surkov> marcoz: it makes sense, firefox was somehow accessible with narrator on desktop win8 when I tried it last time
  211. # [09:46] <@surkov> marcoz: btw, it makse sense to cc jim
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  218. # [11:34] <@marcoz> surkov: Saw my mail? I forwarded it to jmathies too, forgot to include him in the initial CC.
  219. # [11:34] <@surkov> marcoz: yeah, it's good one, thank you!
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  237. # [15:07] <@davidb> heyo
  238. # [15:11] <tbsaunde> hey
  239. # [15:17] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com denied checkin for attachment 718534 on bug 845095.
  240. # [15:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=845095 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Intermittent Mac states/test_tree.xul | Test timed out. followed by states/test_visibility.html fail
  241. # [15:18] <@firebot> hub@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 721577 on bug 845095.
  242. # [15:19] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  246. # [15:58] * @davidb hunts coffee
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  250. # [16:20] * @marcoz bangs head on desk. Sometimes, JavaScript error messages can be just as utterly stupid as those of C++!
  251. # [16:23] <@davidb> Yeah, but we expect less of js.
  252. # [16:24] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  253. # [16:25] <@marcoz> davidb: Do you see why this won't call the keypress handler? http://www.marco-zehe.de/examples/example_activedescendant.html
  254. # [16:26] <@marcoz> (Firefox's web developer tools currently let me down rather badly, esp the old stupid error console)
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  256. # [16:28] <@davidb> marcoz: well first thing i notice is that you should call the handler without passing in 'aEvent' since that is undefined I think
  257. # [16:28] <@marcoz> davidb: Hm, tried that, and it hadn't worked that time. Let me try again.
  258. # [16:28] <@davidb> let me look closer in a minute
  259. # [16:29] <@marcoz> So this event parameter is added by the browser in the background, then?
  260. # [16:30] <@davidb> yeah
  261. # [16:31] <@davidb> ok i think it should work with my suggestion
  262. # [16:31] <@davidb> just call changeActiveDescendant() in the handler
  263. # [16:32] <@davidb> marcoz: is the new web console accessible enough?
  264. # [16:33] <tbsaunde> man, that bug is a good example for why js is a terrible language to write anything complicated in
  265. # [16:33] <tbsaunde> well, not complicated, non trivial
  266. # [16:34] <@davidb> we should all use scheme
  267. # [16:35] * tbsaunde has forgotten half of the /epsilon I ever knew about it
  268. # [16:36] <@davidb> it requires you to change the way you think about problems… but once you get used to it it is incredible.
  269. # [16:39] <@marcoz> davidb: Yeah the handler then got called, at least the alert displayed. But it still doesn't do what I want it to. I keep forgetting which of these damn keyboard thingies actually work and not.
  270. # [16:39] <@marcoz> davidb: I haven't figured out any of these developer tools really well. This is a huge work in progress on the a11y front which I cannot solve without sighted assistance.
  271. # [16:41] <@davidb> ok let me look at this for more than 2 minutes… sorry
  272. # [16:41] <@davidb> i'm rushing around
  273. # [16:43] * @marcoz is slowly starting to seriously doubt his coding skills if he isn't even able to hack together this simple thing. :(
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  275. # [16:48] <@marcoz> davidb: got it! The onkeypress thingie needs a parameter, but it must be called event and nothing else.
  276. # [16:49] <@davidb> ah
  277. # [16:49] <@marcoz> The parameter itself in the function declaration can then be called anything.
  278. # [16:49] <@davidb> seems odd
  279. # [16:49] <@davidb> but rings a bell
  280. # [16:49] <@marcoz> You bet!
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  285. # [16:52] <@davidb> actually i can't believe i forgot that
  286. # [16:53] <@davidb> there is also something special about the binding of the event
  287. # [16:54] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  288. # [16:55] <@davidb> (but that's another tale)
  289. # [16:56] <@davidb> In other news, Sina is introducing me to a MathPlayer contact.
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  291. # [17:03] <@marcoz> davidb: That's great news!
  292. # [17:04] * @marcoz is stumbling from error to error in the meantime. Now the stuff in the switch case statements won't get executed.
  293. # [17:09] <@marcoz> ok, var instead of let. Why that is when everybody wants everybody to use let I have no f*cking idea.
  294. # [17:13] <@marcoz> davidb: Got it working.
  295. # [17:13] <@davidb> groovy
  296. # [17:14] <@davidb> 'let' does what you wish 'var' would.
  297. # [17:14] <@davidb> in general
  298. # [17:14] <@davidb> 'let' has scope similar to C
  299. # [17:15] <@marcoz> Hm, but in that function I wrote, I had to use var instead of let. The scope only needed to be within that function. I don't get this….
  300. # [17:16] <@marcoz> davidb: >
  301. # [17:18] <@davidb> i don't think let is official… it is a geckoism
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  303. # [17:20] <@marcoz> davidb: Oh OK!
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  316. # [18:41] <tbsaunde> davidb: so, is accessible math stuff becoming more of a priority or something?
  317. # [18:42] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it is something that has been coming up more and more.
  318. # [18:42] <@davidb> It should be a solvable problem so I'd like to make it awesome in FF in Q2 or Q3
  319. # [18:42] <@davidb> interested?
  320. # [18:43] <@davidb> Right now people are using IE, MathJax and, and Mathplayer
  321. # [18:43] <@davidb> I'd like to at least make FF an option for that… but really would like to do better if possible.
  322. # [18:44] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it would be great to have you join and lurk on the initial phone meeting with the math player dev.
  323. # [18:44] <@davidb> lurk or participate
  324. # [18:52] <tbsaunde> davidb: ok, when is it?
  325. # [18:52] <@davidb> TBD
  326. # [18:53] <tbsaunde> davidb: sort of interested
  327. # [18:53] <@davidb> great
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  338. # [19:58] <@davidb> hub: 1:1?
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  341. # [20:22] <@davidb> oh right… PTO
  342. # [20:22] <@davidb> ok i have to go ark for 120 minutes
  343. # [20:22] <@davidb> afk
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  351. # [21:04] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 721563 on bug 824662.
  352. # [21:04] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=824662 nor, --, mozilla22, surkov.alexander, REOP, Intermittent test_takeFocus.html | Can't get accessible for plugin
  353. # [21:15] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 721559 on bug 833256.
  354. # [21:15] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=833256 nor, --, ---, joshyyuan, NEW, role note shouldn't pick up the name from subtree
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  357. # [21:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
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  365. # [22:52] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 720590 on bug 678477.
  366. # [22:52] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678477 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, change ownership of nsCaretAccessible
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  371. # Session Close: Thu Mar 07 00:00:01 2013

The end :)