/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-03-12 / end
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- # Session Start: Tue Mar 12 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [02:43] <@tbsaunde> !summan surkov
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- # [14:22] <@davidb> heyo
- # [14:22] <SteveF> hi davey baby
- # [14:23] <@davidb> haha
- # [14:25] * davidb changes topic to '"Screen Reader Accessibility Bug Day!"'
- # [14:29] * icaaq likes the topic
- # [14:30] <@marcoz> davidb: Hi there!
- # [14:30] <@davidb> hi marcoz
- # [14:30] <@marcoz> Hi SteveF and icaaq! :)
- # [14:30] * davidb changes topic to '"Screen Reader Accessibility Bug Day!"'
- # [14:30] <@davidb> | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugmasters/Bug_days/a11y
- # [14:30] <SteveF> yo marco
- # [14:30] * davidb changes topic to '"Screen Reader Accessibility Bug Day!" | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugmasters/Bug_days/a11y'
- # [14:32] * @marcoz is curious if anyone will show up at all for the bug day. ;) Europeans have not shown any activity this morning.
- # [14:33] <@marcoz> stevef: icaaq: davidb: If you're interested in some light reading: http://www.marcozehe.de/2013/03/12/review-dell-latitude-10-inch-tablet-with-windows-8/
- # [14:33] <SteveF> marcoz: cheers will read
- # [14:34] <icaaq> dito
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- # [14:56] <@marcoz> Heh, wonder if anyone will pick up on the theme that I'm basically saying non-touch-screen devices are not so good for accessibility as touch screen devices are. :) For blind or visually impaired people. :)
- # [14:57] <@marcoz> Could be considered controversial. By some at least.
- # [14:58] <icaaq> marcoz: why controversial?
- # [15:02] <@davidb> because OMG CHANGE!
- # [15:02] <@davidb> marcoz: ready when you are
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- # [15:08] <SteveF> marcoz: noticed there were longdesc's on your images :-)
- # [15:09] <SteveF> there were NO longdescs
- # [15:15] <@davidb> marcoz: lost you - sorry. started a vm and jaws ate my speakers
- # [15:16] <@davidb> marcoz: call me back?
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- # [15:28] <@marcoz> SteveF: Should there have been? ;)
- # [15:29] * LJ is now known as LJWatson
- # [15:30] <SteveF> marcoz: nah just ribbing you
- # [15:30] <LJWatson> Hello, let me know if I can help with bug testing/filing today :)
- # [15:36] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [15:47] <@davidb> LJWatson: sure! we haven't seen any activity yet.
- # [15:48] <@marcoz> SteveF: Heh
- # [15:48] <@davidb> LJWatson: liz is running it but she is on Pacific time… not great for you I know
- # [15:59] <@marcoz> davidb: Re your comment in bug 781971, interesting, and good to know that our part seems to be working OK!
- # [15:59] <@davidb> yeah
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- # [16:06] <@davidb> !seen jst
- # [16:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: you might try summoning firebot first ;)
- # [16:13] <lizzard> davidb: morning :D
- # [16:14] <@marcoz> Morning lizzard! :)
- # [16:15] <lizzard> Sorry about not putting the time more clearly.
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- # [16:31] <LJWatson> davidb: Thanks, and no problem. I'll check back later this evening :)
- # [16:31] <@davidb> awesome
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- # [16:52] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah
- # [16:52] <@davidb> i found jst though
- # [16:53] <@davidb> lizzard: hi!
- # [16:53] <lizzard> hi davidb. I'm just caffeinating :D
- # [16:53] <@davidb> good call
- # [16:54] <@davidb> i'm about to grab an early lunch… i have a math a11y meeting in about 1 hour
- # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> davidb: good that you remembered, I certainly wasn't going to :/
- # [16:55] <@davidb> using a calendar is critical to my job
- # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> I'm happy its generally not to mine ;)
- # [16:57] * @davidb cries a little
- # [16:59] <@marcoz> Heh, I found as I got older that a calendar is becoming more important. tbsaunde will get there some day, davidb. ;)
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- # [17:27] <@marcoz> davidb: I don't know what it is, but our Mac Nightly builds have become more responsive steadily.
- # [17:36] <lizzard> nice to hear...
- # [17:57] <@eeejay> morning bug day
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- # [18:07] <@marcoz> Hi eeejay! :)
- # [18:15] <@marcoz> OK, 6PM in Germany. Am off for the evening. Good day all!
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- # [18:15] <@eeejay> marcoz, adios!
- # [18:15] <@eeejay> whatever..
- # [18:22] <lizzard> hallo, eeejay :)
- # [18:30] <@eeejay> hey lizzard
- # [18:30] <lizzard> I am slowly poking at some bugs. Sometimes just changing them from UNCONFIRMED to NEW when I can understand them and replicate
- # [18:41] * @eeejay will hopefully investigate bug 836746 further today #bugday
- # [18:41] <@eeejay> that was my attempt at an irc hashtag
- # [18:41] <@eeejay> dont join it
- # [18:41] <@eeejay> where id firebot go. it would be useful to have it around
- # [18:43] <lizzard> the thing that spits out a bug link?
- # [18:45] <@eeejay> lizzard, yeah
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- # [18:52] <lizzard> I'm going to note bugs that might be good for Google Summer of Code, for student projects, or extensions
- # [18:52] <lizzard> then maybe email y'all tomorrow with a list, in case you want to suggest a project for GSOC :) https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode13
- # [18:55] <@davidb> we had some discussion i should dig up
- # [18:55] <@davidb> lizzard: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/GSoC
- # [18:56] <lizzard> is MathML the meeting you were just at? sounds useful...
- # [19:00] <lizzard> actually the svg one sounds cooler
- # [19:04] <lizzard> davidb: I am blundering all around your territory :)
- # [19:04] <@davidb> awesome
- # [19:04] <@davidb> the meeting is still going
- # [19:04] <@davidb> mathml
- # [19:09] <lizzard> Hey there LenFB !
- # [19:13] <LenFB> Hiya!
- # [19:13] <LenFB> Am sorting out how this client deals with IRC
- # [19:16] <@davidb> hi
- # [19:16] * @davidb moves into next meeting, late
- # [19:17] <LenFB> Good morning :)
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- # [19:21] <LenFB> I have a strange issue here going on with the latest FF update, right now sorting out if it is a bug or if something went wrong with the update.
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- # [19:23] <@davidb> what happened?
- # [19:26] <LenFB> When I launch FF, None of the three screen readers on my machine are finding content. With Window-Eyes and Jaws, I can find the content with the Jaws or cursor or mouse pointer,. If I then hit ctrl-l, the url displays, I hit return and the page begins to display normally. Once this has occurred, there are no further problems. I see the this behavior independent of at which url I begin. I am now bringing up a Win7 VM t
- # [19:26] <LenFB> . I have not updated FF in there, so I want to test aas is and then run the latest update to see if the problem is duplicated.
- # [19:27] <@davidb> thanks
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- # [19:30] <@davidb> eeejay: how's now?
- # [19:30] <@eeejay> davidb, great. let me fire it up
- # [19:30] <@davidb> ok
- # [19:32] <@eeejay> davidb, on skype
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- # [19:42] <@davidb> yzen: meet eeejay, eeejay yzen
- # [19:43] <@eeejay> hey yzen
- # [19:43] <yzen> eeejay: hi
- # [19:44] <yzen> eeejay: I was mentioning that to davidb, perhaps you (or him) can point me at a good starter bug from [AccessFu] I could take a look at ?
- # [19:44] <@eeejay> yzen, one sec
- # [19:44] <lizzard> LenFB: do you want to talk through what is happening with the update?
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- # [19:50] <@eeejay> yzen, does this link work for you? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&namedcmd=AccessFu%20bugs&list_id=5989550
- # [19:51] <@eeejay> yzen, do you have an android device?
- # [19:51] <yzen> eeejay: i do yes
- # [19:51] <@eeejay> yzen, a good start would be to enable talkback, and play with firefox and see what accessfu is all about
- # [19:51] <yzen> eeejay: I can't seem to access that search :S
- # [19:52] <@eeejay> yzen, ok. must be bound to my account.. i'll give you a different url
- # [19:52] <yzen> eeejay: thanks
- # [19:52] <polyphase> neither can I access it. says AccessFu bugs does not exist
- # [19:53] <@eeejay> yzen, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=[AccessFu]&list_id=5989628
- # [19:53] <lizzard> I also get tthat the search AccessFu doesn't exist.
- # [19:53] <@eeejay> polyphase, yzenc^
- # [19:53] <lizzard> That works better !
- # [19:54] <yzen> eeejay: alright so ill start playing around with it , should i then let you know when i m ready to try a bug ?
- # [19:55] <@eeejay> yzen, yep. there are also bugs there that can use triaging and may be obsolete, like for renaming stuff taht doesn't exist
- # [19:55] <@eeejay> anyway, plenty of work - on all levels
- # [19:55] <yzen> eeejay: alright, thanks!
- # [19:55] <fxa90id> :)
- # [19:56] <lizzard> eeejay: noted for triaging
- # [19:56] <polyphase> I'm assuming that braille bug has to do with BrailleBack (Talkback equivalent app ?)
- # [20:00] <@davidb> yeah
- # [20:00] <lizzard> eeejay: I added your advice and the search to the bug day page: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugmasters/Bug_days/a11y#AccessFu_mobile_bug_list
- # [20:02] <@eeejay> lizzard, brilliant! thanks
- # [20:02] <@eeejay> polyphase, yeah.
- # [20:02] <@eeejay> polyphase, there may be a way to test it without an actual braille display, but i don't know
- # [20:04] <polyphase> sorry about this basic question, but is it possible to test the accessibility bugs in eclipse android emulator, or is an actual android device needed ? I have emulation set up, but how useful is feedback from this ?
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- # [20:05] <LenFB> It is also important to know for which braille device, there are a lot of them out there now days.
- # [20:05] <polyphase> I have access to a few ifferent braille displays just not Android 4.1 or up physical device. Hence the emulation usefulness question
- # [20:06] <LenFB> Glad to report that the FF problem is not a bug, the update is working fine in Win7 under VM wear with all screen readers. I will work this out later.
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- # [20:09] <LenFB> I cannot speak from direct experience on this one, but I would be skeptical, there are factors that would be difficult to immulate.
- # [20:10] <@tbsaunde> polyphase: I imagine you could hack something together to test, but I have no idea how much work it would be
- # [20:11] <polyphase> that's my thought too n emulator. will get my hands on an up to date android device today
- # [20:11] <LenFB> I think your results will also be far more realistic.
- # [20:12] <polyphase> tbsaunde: and then do a comparison between emulator and physical device, just to answer that
- # [20:13] <@tbsaunde> LenFB: really depends what you need to test
- # [20:16] <lizzard> brb, relocating to cafe for a bit :)
- # [20:17] <LenFB> Fair enough
- # [20:17] <@davidb> eeejay: had to rebase my testing patch (i presume you probably did that too?)
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- # [20:17] <@davidb> moz.build and such
- # [20:18] <@davidb> oh weird… hg rename did something odd
- # [20:20] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah.
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- # [20:20] <@eeejay> davidb, i could upload a rebased one if you want
- # [20:20] <@davidb> eeejay: sure… where?
- # [20:20] <@davidb> eeejay: email me?
- # [20:22] <@eeejay> davidb, sent
- # [20:22] <@davidb> tah
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- # [20:34] <LenFB> I am working on an issue here that involves Jaws, a braille display, and the Tbird composition window.
- # [20:35] <LenFB> The Focus Blue braille displays are well integrated with Jaws, which gives Jaws a a lot of control over the input mode of the device.
- # [20:35] <@tbsaunde> saddly not all of us make good life choices :/
- # [20:39] <lizzard> This is a great cafe mostly because it has a good street view and they always play cuban oldies
- # [20:39] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you jaws bashing?
- # [20:39] <LenFB> Several days ago, I discovered that when composing an email in TBird Jaws is switching the braille display to computer braille. This is not standard behavior in most edits. It is behaving similarly in text boxes in FF. I have raised the matter with Freedom Scientific, specifically, what criteria does Jaws use to determine the input mode of the Focus. At the moment the matter is being pushed up the ladder over there to
- # [20:39] <LenFB> ne who has more indepth knowledge. The matter is concerning because a user not accustomed to inputting in computer braille would be very confused if surprised by this situation. My question is if this is something I should report as a bug, if I should, exactly what information would be useful?
- # [20:41] <LenFB> I am not primarily a Jaws user, but I am familiar with it because I do a lot of web accessibility testing and use a mix of Jaws, Window-Eyes and NVDA.
- # [20:42] <@davidb> LenFB: reporting a bug is welcome
- # [20:42] <lizzard> LenFB: it sounds like reporting a TBird bug is a good idea
- # [20:43] <LenFB> Ok, food first, then will do so.
- # [20:43] <@davidb> I think putting as much info as you have here, roughly is good. if it happens in FF too that will get faster attention
- # [20:43] <@davidb> thanks
- # [20:49] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no, poor life choices include in this case touching the editor, and then choosing to do so while in tbird
- # [20:50] <@davidb> booo :)
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- # [21:15] <LenFB> Ok, so am now entering info I have, question: if I am noting this for both Firefox and Thunderbird, is there a way to do this in one report? It seems that I must choose.
- # [21:18] <@tbsaunde> LenFB: if its a bug in both it probably is a core bug
- # [21:18] <@davidb> you could pick one… I'd pick FF… then mention thunderbird in a comment
- # [21:18] <@davidb> yeah
- # [21:18] <@davidb> we can triage further … don't worry to much about getting the exact component
- # [21:18] <@davidb> to/too
- # [21:18] <@davidb> it is something you learn by filing lots :)
- # [21:19] <lizzard> good advice :)
- # [21:19] <lizzard> I am learning a lot today for sure.
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- # [21:20] <lizzard> davidb: do you have regular meetings? I looked for them but was not sure if you still do, as there weren't meeting notes.
- # [21:20] <@davidb> not really
- # [21:20] <@davidb> we coordinate over bugs and IRC mostly
- # [21:20] <lizzard> nod. how about the mailing list?
- # [21:20] <@davidb> not so much
- # [21:20] <lizzard> ok!
- # [21:21] <LenFB> Will do
- # [21:21] * tink is now known as LJWatson
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- # [21:44] <LenFB> Ok, bug has been filed with as much information as I currently have available: bug #850385
- # [21:47] <LenFB> Any feedback welcome so I can improve.
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- # [22:25] <lizzard> I am interlinking and doing some wiki cleanup along the way as I come across things
- # [22:25] <lizzard> Also, I have just realized the new david bowie album is on spotify. it's good!
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- # [22:27] <LenFB> Wow!
- # [22:28] <LenFB> Bug re JFW/braille displayed submitted, any and all feedback welcomed so I can become more effective.
- # [22:31] <LenFB> afk a bit, food.
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- # [22:51] <lizzard> I will happily take a look, LenFB
- # [22:56] <lizzard> I'm not sure which component this should go into.
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- # [23:18] <LenFB> Much appreciated, I can be useful in this process only when I can submit in an efficient manner.
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- # [23:23] <lizzard> LenFB: I added the keyword "access" and also I put that bug as blocking the JAWS meta-bug.
- # [23:24] <lizzard> hoping that tagging it will bring it to the right people's attention
- # [23:31] <LenFB> Tnx
- # [23:33] <lizzard> LenFB: here is one I wonder if you can reproduce, though it does not sound fun to reproduce. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790094
- # [23:35] <lizzard> Hmm. Since we are now on different versions of Firefox and JAWS I wonder if that is worth it to look at.
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- # [23:56] <lizzard> OK. I went through all the JAWS bugs, added and asked for new information, and made sure they were all on the JAWS meta-bug.
- # [23:57] <lizzard> I wonder if we might get JAWS developer interest in having a meeting or co-bug-fix day to work together on this list.
- # Session Close: Wed Mar 13 00:00:00 2013
The end :)