/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-03-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Mar 12 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  15. # [02:43] <@tbsaunde> !summan surkov
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  66. # [14:22] <@davidb> heyo
  67. # [14:22] <SteveF> hi davey baby
  68. # [14:23] <@davidb> haha
  69. # [14:25] * davidb changes topic to '"Screen Reader Accessibility Bug Day!"'
  70. # [14:29] * icaaq likes the topic
  71. # [14:30] <@marcoz> davidb: Hi there!
  72. # [14:30] <@davidb> hi marcoz
  73. # [14:30] <@marcoz> Hi SteveF and icaaq! :)
  74. # [14:30] * davidb changes topic to '"Screen Reader Accessibility Bug Day!"'
  75. # [14:30] <@davidb> | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugmasters/Bug_days/a11y
  76. # [14:30] <SteveF> yo marco
  77. # [14:30] * davidb changes topic to '"Screen Reader Accessibility Bug Day!" | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugmasters/Bug_days/a11y'
  78. # [14:32] * @marcoz is curious if anyone will show up at all for the bug day. ;) Europeans have not shown any activity this morning.
  79. # [14:33] <@marcoz> stevef: icaaq: davidb: If you're interested in some light reading: http://www.marcozehe.de/2013/03/12/review-dell-latitude-10-inch-tablet-with-windows-8/
  80. # [14:33] <SteveF> marcoz: cheers will read
  81. # [14:34] <icaaq> dito
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  84. # [14:56] <@marcoz> Heh, wonder if anyone will pick up on the theme that I'm basically saying non-touch-screen devices are not so good for accessibility as touch screen devices are. :) For blind or visually impaired people. :)
  85. # [14:57] <@marcoz> Could be considered controversial. By some at least.
  86. # [14:58] <icaaq> marcoz: why controversial?
  87. # [15:02] <@davidb> because OMG CHANGE!
  88. # [15:02] <@davidb> marcoz: ready when you are
  89. # [15:08] * Joins: clown (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
  90. # [15:08] <SteveF> marcoz: noticed there were longdesc's on your images :-)
  91. # [15:09] <SteveF> there were NO longdescs
  92. # [15:15] <@davidb> marcoz: lost you - sorry. started a vm and jaws ate my speakers
  93. # [15:16] <@davidb> marcoz: call me back?
  94. # [15:27] * Joins: LJ (chatzilla@moz-B0D60168.fw.uk.nomensa.com)
  95. # [15:28] <@marcoz> SteveF: Should there have been? ;)
  96. # [15:29] * LJ is now known as LJWatson
  97. # [15:30] <SteveF> marcoz: nah just ribbing you
  98. # [15:30] <LJWatson> Hello, let me know if I can help with bug testing/filing today :)
  99. # [15:36] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  100. # [15:47] <@davidb> LJWatson: sure! we haven't seen any activity yet.
  101. # [15:48] <@marcoz> SteveF: Heh
  102. # [15:48] <@davidb> LJWatson: liz is running it but she is on Pacific time… not great for you I know
  103. # [15:59] <@marcoz> davidb: Re your comment in bug 781971, interesting, and good to know that our part seems to be working OK!
  104. # [15:59] <@davidb> yeah
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  108. # [16:06] <@davidb> !seen jst
  109. # [16:10] <@tbsaunde> davidb: you might try summoning firebot first ;)
  110. # [16:13] <lizzard> davidb: morning :D
  111. # [16:14] <@marcoz> Morning lizzard! :)
  112. # [16:15] <lizzard> Sorry about not putting the time more clearly.
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  117. # [16:31] <LJWatson> davidb: Thanks, and no problem. I'll check back later this evening :)
  118. # [16:31] <@davidb> awesome
  119. # [16:44] * clown is now known as clown_mtg
  120. # [16:52] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah
  121. # [16:52] <@davidb> i found jst though
  122. # [16:53] <@davidb> lizzard: hi!
  123. # [16:53] <lizzard> hi davidb. I'm just caffeinating :D
  124. # [16:53] <@davidb> good call
  125. # [16:54] <@davidb> i'm about to grab an early lunch… i have a math a11y meeting in about 1 hour
  126. # [16:55] <@tbsaunde> davidb: good that you remembered, I certainly wasn't going to :/
  127. # [16:55] <@davidb> using a calendar is critical to my job
  128. # [16:56] <@tbsaunde> I'm happy its generally not to mine ;)
  129. # [16:57] * @davidb cries a little
  130. # [16:59] <@marcoz> Heh, I found as I got older that a calendar is becoming more important. tbsaunde will get there some day, davidb. ;)
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  137. # [17:27] <@marcoz> davidb: I don't know what it is, but our Mac Nightly builds have become more responsive steadily.
  138. # [17:36] <lizzard> nice to hear...
  139. # [17:57] <@eeejay> morning bug day
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  143. # [18:07] <@marcoz> Hi eeejay! :)
  144. # [18:15] <@marcoz> OK, 6PM in Germany. Am off for the evening. Good day all!
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  146. # [18:15] <@eeejay> marcoz, adios!
  147. # [18:15] <@eeejay> whatever..
  148. # [18:22] <lizzard> hallo, eeejay :)
  149. # [18:30] <@eeejay> hey lizzard
  150. # [18:30] <lizzard> I am slowly poking at some bugs. Sometimes just changing them from UNCONFIRMED to NEW when I can understand them and replicate
  151. # [18:41] * @eeejay will hopefully investigate bug 836746 further today #bugday
  152. # [18:41] <@eeejay> that was my attempt at an irc hashtag
  153. # [18:41] <@eeejay> dont join it
  154. # [18:41] <@eeejay> where id firebot go. it would be useful to have it around
  155. # [18:43] <lizzard> the thing that spits out a bug link?
  156. # [18:45] <@eeejay> lizzard, yeah
  157. # [18:48] * Joins: LenFB (Miranda@moz-26532FC7.lightspeed.mtryca.sbcglobal.net)
  158. # [18:52] <lizzard> I'm going to note bugs that might be good for Google Summer of Code, for student projects, or extensions
  159. # [18:52] <lizzard> then maybe email y'all tomorrow with a list, in case you want to suggest a project for GSOC :) https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode13
  160. # [18:55] <@davidb> we had some discussion i should dig up
  161. # [18:55] <@davidb> lizzard: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/GSoC
  162. # [18:56] <lizzard> is MathML the meeting you were just at? sounds useful...
  163. # [19:00] <lizzard> actually the svg one sounds cooler
  164. # [19:04] <lizzard> davidb: I am blundering all around your territory :)
  165. # [19:04] <@davidb> awesome
  166. # [19:04] <@davidb> the meeting is still going
  167. # [19:04] <@davidb> mathml
  168. # [19:09] <lizzard> Hey there LenFB !
  169. # [19:13] <LenFB> Hiya!
  170. # [19:13] <LenFB> Am sorting out how this client deals with IRC
  171. # [19:16] <@davidb> hi
  172. # [19:16] * @davidb moves into next meeting, late
  173. # [19:17] <LenFB> Good morning :)
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  179. # [19:21] <LenFB> I have a strange issue here going on with the latest FF update, right now sorting out if it is a bug or if something went wrong with the update.
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  181. # [19:23] <@davidb> what happened?
  182. # [19:26] <LenFB> When I launch FF, None of the three screen readers on my machine are finding content. With Window-Eyes and Jaws, I can find the content with the Jaws or cursor or mouse pointer,. If I then hit ctrl-l, the url displays, I hit return and the page begins to display normally. Once this has occurred, there are no further problems. I see the this behavior independent of at which url I begin. I am now bringing up a Win7 VM t
  183. # [19:26] <LenFB> . I have not updated FF in there, so I want to test aas is and then run the latest update to see if the problem is duplicated.
  184. # [19:27] <@davidb> thanks
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  186. # [19:30] <@davidb> eeejay: how's now?
  187. # [19:30] <@eeejay> davidb, great. let me fire it up
  188. # [19:30] <@davidb> ok
  189. # [19:32] <@eeejay> davidb, on skype
  190. # [19:42] * Joins: yzen (Adium@AA2C085E.10C8AEF8.9A8C35B4.IP)
  191. # [19:42] <@davidb> yzen: meet eeejay, eeejay yzen
  192. # [19:43] <@eeejay> hey yzen
  193. # [19:43] <yzen> eeejay: hi
  194. # [19:44] <yzen> eeejay: I was mentioning that to davidb, perhaps you (or him) can point me at a good starter bug from [AccessFu] I could take a look at ?
  195. # [19:44] <@eeejay> yzen, one sec
  196. # [19:44] <lizzard> LenFB: do you want to talk through what is happening with the update?
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  198. # [19:50] <@eeejay> yzen, does this link work for you? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&namedcmd=AccessFu%20bugs&list_id=5989550
  199. # [19:51] <@eeejay> yzen, do you have an android device?
  200. # [19:51] <yzen> eeejay: i do yes
  201. # [19:51] <@eeejay> yzen, a good start would be to enable talkback, and play with firefox and see what accessfu is all about
  202. # [19:51] <yzen> eeejay: I can't seem to access that search :S
  203. # [19:52] <@eeejay> yzen, ok. must be bound to my account.. i'll give you a different url
  204. # [19:52] <yzen> eeejay: thanks
  205. # [19:52] <polyphase> neither can I access it. says AccessFu bugs does not exist
  206. # [19:53] <@eeejay> yzen, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=[AccessFu]&list_id=5989628
  207. # [19:53] <lizzard> I also get tthat the search AccessFu doesn't exist.
  208. # [19:53] <@eeejay> polyphase, yzenc^
  209. # [19:53] <lizzard> That works better !
  210. # [19:54] <yzen> eeejay: alright so ill start playing around with it , should i then let you know when i m ready to try a bug ?
  211. # [19:55] <@eeejay> yzen, yep. there are also bugs there that can use triaging and may be obsolete, like for renaming stuff taht doesn't exist
  212. # [19:55] <@eeejay> anyway, plenty of work - on all levels
  213. # [19:55] <yzen> eeejay: alright, thanks!
  214. # [19:55] <fxa90id> :)
  215. # [19:56] <lizzard> eeejay: noted for triaging
  216. # [19:56] <polyphase> I'm assuming that braille bug has to do with BrailleBack (Talkback equivalent app ?)
  217. # [20:00] <@davidb> yeah
  218. # [20:00] <lizzard> eeejay: I added your advice and the search to the bug day page: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugmasters/Bug_days/a11y#AccessFu_mobile_bug_list
  219. # [20:02] <@eeejay> lizzard, brilliant! thanks
  220. # [20:02] <@eeejay> polyphase, yeah.
  221. # [20:02] <@eeejay> polyphase, there may be a way to test it without an actual braille display, but i don't know
  222. # [20:04] <polyphase> sorry about this basic question, but is it possible to test the accessibility bugs in eclipse android emulator, or is an actual android device needed ? I have emulation set up, but how useful is feedback from this ?
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  224. # [20:05] <LenFB> It is also important to know for which braille device, there are a lot of them out there now days.
  225. # [20:05] <polyphase> I have access to a few ifferent braille displays just not Android 4.1 or up physical device. Hence the emulation usefulness question
  226. # [20:06] <LenFB> Glad to report that the FF problem is not a bug, the update is working fine in Win7 under VM wear with all screen readers. I will work this out later.
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  230. # [20:09] <LenFB> I cannot speak from direct experience on this one, but I would be skeptical, there are factors that would be difficult to immulate.
  231. # [20:10] <@tbsaunde> polyphase: I imagine you could hack something together to test, but I have no idea how much work it would be
  232. # [20:11] <polyphase> that's my thought too n emulator. will get my hands on an up to date android device today
  233. # [20:11] <LenFB> I think your results will also be far more realistic.
  234. # [20:12] <polyphase> tbsaunde: and then do a comparison between emulator and physical device, just to answer that
  235. # [20:13] <@tbsaunde> LenFB: really depends what you need to test
  236. # [20:16] <lizzard> brb, relocating to cafe for a bit :)
  237. # [20:17] <LenFB> Fair enough
  238. # [20:17] <@davidb> eeejay: had to rebase my testing patch (i presume you probably did that too?)
  239. # [20:17] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5A4BE8E8.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: lizzard)
  240. # [20:17] <@davidb> moz.build and such
  241. # [20:18] <@davidb> oh weird… hg rename did something odd
  242. # [20:20] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah.
  243. # [20:20] * Quits: SteveF (chatzilla@moz-CD0F47B5.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout)
  244. # [20:20] <@eeejay> davidb, i could upload a rebased one if you want
  245. # [20:20] <@davidb> eeejay: sure… where?
  246. # [20:20] <@davidb> eeejay: email me?
  247. # [20:22] <@eeejay> davidb, sent
  248. # [20:22] <@davidb> tah
  249. # [20:24] * Quits: polyphase (polyphase@moz-55B58919.cable.telstraclear.net) (Quit: relocating to day job :-))
  250. # [20:31] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-DB7D2EE0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  251. # [20:34] <LenFB> I am working on an issue here that involves Jaws, a braille display, and the Tbird composition window.
  252. # [20:35] <LenFB> The Focus Blue braille displays are well integrated with Jaws, which gives Jaws a a lot of control over the input mode of the device.
  253. # [20:35] <@tbsaunde> saddly not all of us make good life choices :/
  254. # [20:39] <lizzard> This is a great cafe mostly because it has a good street view and they always play cuban oldies
  255. # [20:39] <@davidb> tbsaunde: are you jaws bashing?
  256. # [20:39] <LenFB> Several days ago, I discovered that when composing an email in TBird Jaws is switching the braille display to computer braille. This is not standard behavior in most edits. It is behaving similarly in text boxes in FF. I have raised the matter with Freedom Scientific, specifically, what criteria does Jaws use to determine the input mode of the Focus. At the moment the matter is being pushed up the ladder over there to
  257. # [20:39] <LenFB> ne who has more indepth knowledge. The matter is concerning because a user not accustomed to inputting in computer braille would be very confused if surprised by this situation. My question is if this is something I should report as a bug, if I should, exactly what information would be useful?
  258. # [20:41] <LenFB> I am not primarily a Jaws user, but I am familiar with it because I do a lot of web accessibility testing and use a mix of Jaws, Window-Eyes and NVDA.
  259. # [20:42] <@davidb> LenFB: reporting a bug is welcome
  260. # [20:42] <lizzard> LenFB: it sounds like reporting a TBird bug is a good idea
  261. # [20:43] <LenFB> Ok, food first, then will do so.
  262. # [20:43] <@davidb> I think putting as much info as you have here, roughly is good. if it happens in FF too that will get faster attention
  263. # [20:43] <@davidb> thanks
  264. # [20:49] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no, poor life choices include in this case touching the editor, and then choosing to do so while in tbird
  265. # [20:50] <@davidb> booo :)
  266. # [21:04] * Joins: lizzard_ (ehenry@moz-DB7D2EE0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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  268. # [21:05] * lizzard_ is now known as lizzard
  269. # [21:15] <LenFB> Ok, so am now entering info I have, question: if I am noting this for both Firefox and Thunderbird, is there a way to do this in one report? It seems that I must choose.
  270. # [21:18] <@tbsaunde> LenFB: if its a bug in both it probably is a core bug
  271. # [21:18] <@davidb> you could pick one… I'd pick FF… then mention thunderbird in a comment
  272. # [21:18] <@davidb> yeah
  273. # [21:18] <@davidb> we can triage further … don't worry to much about getting the exact component
  274. # [21:18] <@davidb> to/too
  275. # [21:18] <@davidb> it is something you learn by filing lots :)
  276. # [21:19] <lizzard> good advice :)
  277. # [21:19] <lizzard> I am learning a lot today for sure.
  278. # [21:19] * Joins: tink (chatzilla@moz-55B7DE7B.zone9.bethere.co.uk)
  279. # [21:20] <lizzard> davidb: do you have regular meetings? I looked for them but was not sure if you still do, as there weren't meeting notes.
  280. # [21:20] <@davidb> not really
  281. # [21:20] <@davidb> we coordinate over bugs and IRC mostly
  282. # [21:20] <lizzard> nod. how about the mailing list?
  283. # [21:20] <@davidb> not so much
  284. # [21:20] <lizzard> ok!
  285. # [21:21] <LenFB> Will do
  286. # [21:21] * tink is now known as LJWatson
  287. # [21:26] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-DB7D2EE0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout)
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  291. # [21:44] <LenFB> Ok, bug has been filed with as much information as I currently have available: bug #850385
  292. # [21:47] <LenFB> Any feedback welcome so I can improve.
  293. # [22:02] * Parts: clown_mtg (clown@67828CC7.C1A51174.9D42CF23.IP)
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  300. # [22:14] * Quits: LJWatson (chatzilla@moz-55B7DE7B.zone9.bethere.co.uk) (Client exited)
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  303. # [22:25] <lizzard> I am interlinking and doing some wiki cleanup along the way as I come across things
  304. # [22:25] <lizzard> Also, I have just realized the new david bowie album is on spotify. it's good!
  305. # [22:27] * Quits: brambles (xymox@moz-969AAE9B.barwen.ch) (Client exited)
  306. # [22:27] <LenFB> Wow!
  307. # [22:28] <LenFB> Bug re JFW/braille displayed submitted, any and all feedback welcomed so I can become more effective.
  308. # [22:31] <LenFB> afk a bit, food.
  309. # [22:32] * Joins: nhirata (anonymous@moz-BE33DA21.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
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  313. # [22:51] <lizzard> I will happily take a look, LenFB
  314. # [22:56] <lizzard> I'm not sure which component this should go into.
  315. # [23:13] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-D8A76420.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
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  317. # [23:18] <LenFB> Much appreciated, I can be useful in this process only when I can submit in an efficient manner.
  318. # [23:18] * Quits: icaaq (Adium@moz-D8A76420.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
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  320. # [23:23] <lizzard> LenFB: I added the keyword "access" and also I put that bug as blocking the JAWS meta-bug.
  321. # [23:24] <lizzard> hoping that tagging it will bring it to the right people's attention
  322. # [23:31] <LenFB> Tnx
  323. # [23:33] <lizzard> LenFB: here is one I wonder if you can reproduce, though it does not sound fun to reproduce. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=790094
  324. # [23:35] <lizzard> Hmm. Since we are now on different versions of Firefox and JAWS I wonder if that is worth it to look at.
  325. # [23:47] * Quits: yzen (Adium@AA2C085E.10C8AEF8.9A8C35B4.IP) (Quit: Leaving.)
  326. # [23:56] <lizzard> OK. I went through all the JAWS bugs, added and asked for new information, and made sure they were all on the JAWS meta-bug.
  327. # [23:57] <lizzard> I wonder if we might get JAWS developer interest in having a meeting or co-bug-fix day to work together on this list.
  328. # Session Close: Wed Mar 13 00:00:00 2013

The end :)