/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-03-15 / end
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- # Session Start: Fri Mar 15 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [01:09] <Im_not_Kyle> Hi
- # [01:10] * Parts: Im_not_Kyle (chatzilla@19F93B6A.E9BDB6CC.EC871921.IP)
- # [01:26] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested needinfo from jdiggs@igalia.com on bug 809338.
- # [01:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809338 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, make HTML select hierarchical
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- # [02:57] <yzen> eeejay: ping
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- # [04:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think I realized why you use email to reach me :)
- # [04:31] <tbsaunde> surkov: heh :)
- # [04:31] <tbsaunde> surkov: what's up?
- # [04:31] <@surkov> seems same
- # [04:32] <tbsaunde> surkov: how is text stuff?
- # [04:32] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it's complicated, I need to do a lot of digging
- # [04:33] <tbsaunde> I see
- # [04:39] <tbsaunde> man reverse engineering webkit is neither easy or interesting :(
- # [04:43] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, what do you think about documents? I think its kind of weird they can be alive and have a parent they aren't attached to
- # [04:43] <tbsaunde> but I'm not sure if I care enough to fix it
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- # [04:51] <@surkov> I call them hanging documents, so we process all events but do not expose them to AT
- # [04:53] <tbsaunde> surkov: sure, just sort of funny how that's a state documents can be in but not really other accessibles
- # [04:53] <@surkov> I didn't think anything better :)
- # [04:53] <tbsaunde> yeah
- # [04:54] <tbsaunde> surkov: so, does windows not have a way to select accessibles?
- # [04:54] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what does it mean select?
- # [04:55] <tbsaunde> surkov: as in there's no analog of atkselection
- # [04:57] <@surkov> tbsaunde: msaa provides a way to select an accessible but no specific interface to get selection, I think they just traverse children and get its state
- # [04:57] <@surkov> not sure if get_accSelection is in use
- # [04:58] <tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, no idea if anyone actually uses it
- # [04:59] <tbsaunde> surkov: shouldn't figure out a way for stuff like ,div role="tree"></div> <div role=treeitem level=2></div> ... to work?
- # [04:59] <@surkov> not sure how these are processed on at side
- # [05:00] <tbsaunde> surkov: I'm not sure what your saying
- # [05:01] <@surkov> tbsaunde: mm, perhaps we misunderstand each other, what do you give that example?
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- # [05:02] <tbsaunde> surkov: aria tree where items are children of tree
- # [05:02] <tbsaunde> *aren't
- # [05:03] <tbsaunde> it looks like putting items under role=group also breaks because that interface only supports direct children being selected
- # [05:03] <@surkov> tbsaunde: and now aria-owns?
- # [05:04] <@surkov> I see
- # [05:04] <tbsaunde> surkov: I'd need to figure out what we do in that case
- # [05:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I wonder what they do on webkit side
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- # [05:04] <@surkov> tbsaunde: let's wait for Joanie
- # [05:05] <tbsaunde> surkov: I was trying to reverse engineer that earlier its not particularly fun to figure out
- # [05:05] <@surkov> at least a couple days
- # [05:06] <tbsaunde> ok
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- # [05:21] <tbsaunde> surkov: I sort of suspect they flatten the tree the way we do know, but I'm not sure of that
- # [05:22] <@surkov> it's not good
- # [05:22] <tbsaunde> surkov: what isn't?
- # [05:23] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that they do the same what we did
- # [05:24] <tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, if they do hopefully we can convince them to change :)
- # [05:25] <@surkov> tbsaunde: HTML spec will convince one day, either us or them :)
- # [05:26] <tbsaunde> surkov: how would it effect what we do?
- # [05:26] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if the spec says the tree should be flat then we probably should do that :)
- # [05:27] <tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, I guess if the behavior here gets speced sure :)
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- # [06:11] <cpp_arv> hello, im working on bug 429990, and I realized in src/windows/ia2 in file ia2AccessibleTable.cpp that at line 648 for instance, *aRows is set to NULL unlike *aNRows which is set to 0. I was wondering why *aRows is not set to 0.
- # [06:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429990 nor, --, ---, lxrv22, NEW, check in/out arguments on NULL in MSAA/IA2 methods
- # [06:14] <tbsaunde> cpp_arv: *aNRows is an int and *aRows is a int*
- # [06:15] <cpp_arv> oh. is there a reason *aRows is assigned NULL instead of 0 in the code
- # [06:19] <tbsaunde> cpp_arv: because its a point
- # [06:20] <cpp_arv> oh, why is *aNRows assigned 0
- # [06:21] <tbsaunde> because its an int
- # [06:22] <cpp_arv> ok. thank you. one more question. I realized the files are still being refactored. I was wondering if they are still going to be edited and if I should wait on submitting another patch
- # [06:25] <tbsaunde> cpp_arv: go ahead, every big change to that stuff that's planned is done
- # [06:29] <cpp_arv> ok thank you
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- # [07:20] <@firebot> joshyyuan@gmail.com requested feedback from surkov.alexander@ gmail.com for attachment 725255 on bug 833256.
- # [07:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=833256 nor, --, ---, joshyyuan, NEW, role note shouldn't pick up the name from subtree
- # [07:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 725255 on bug 833256.
- # [07:22] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled feedback?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) for attachment 725255 on bug 833256.
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- # [13:02] <@firebot> vd@FreeBSD.org changed the Assignee on bug 733712 from nobody@mozilla.org to vd@FreeBSD.org.
- # [13:02] <@firebot> vd@FreeBSD.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 725350 on bug 733712.
- # [13:02] <@firebot> vd@FreeBSD.org changed the Status on bug 733712 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [13:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733712 cri, --, ---, vd, ASSI, Don't call atk_object_set_name
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- # [13:54] <@marcoz> Welcome back hub! :)
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- # [14:08] <@hub> thanks
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- # [14:29] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 725350 on bug 733712.
- # [14:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733712 cri, --, ---, vd, ASSI, Don't call atk_object_set_name
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- # [14:51] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 850005 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
- # [14:51] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Status on bug 850005 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [14:51] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=850005 nor, --, ---, eitan, ASSI, [AccessFu] Remove all hard references to windows
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- # [15:10] <@davidb> heyo
- # [15:10] <@davidb> just had more dental work
- # [15:11] <@davidb> marcoz: do you know what surkov is asking in bug 847233?
- # [15:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=847233 nor, --, ---, mounir, ASSI, Fix a11y with <input type='file'> changes
- # [15:11] <@hub> davidb: so it is soup day today?
- # [15:12] <@davidb> heh well i can chew on the right side
- # [15:12] <@marcoz> davidb: Hi! No, I am not.
- # [15:12] <@marcoz> He also asked info from jamie, so I sort of let it slip.
- # [15:13] <@marcoz> I believe it has something to do with inheriting states, but am absolutely not sure.
- # [15:14] <@davidb> commented
- # [15:15] <@davidb> hub: when are you coming here again?
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- # [15:21] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
- # [15:22] <@davidb> marcoz: i heard firefox was on the cover of german wired mag
- # [15:22] <@davidb> http://www.wired.de/2013/03/06/das-neue-wired-cover/
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- # [15:30] <@marcoz> davidb: Oh, right! I heard it mentioned briefly last week, but didn't read the article.
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- # [15:37] <@davidb> marcoz: I'm not yet sure the right way forward for math a11y.
- # [15:39] <@marcoz> davidb: What are the choices?
- # [15:40] <@davidb> it really comes down to finesse with how to speak the math… and where that logic lies.
- # [15:41] <@davidb> marcoz: did you ever try firevox with mathml?
- # [15:41] <@davidb> for the most part it seems screen readers are not taking up the challenge
- # [15:41] <@davidb> i could be wrong
- # [15:41] <@marcoz> davidb: No. I wouldn't know what to write in mathml. I am a maths loser on all counts. Except simple stuff I can do in my head. :)
- # [15:42] <@davidb> ok
- # [15:42] <@hub> davidb: I'll be here Monday
- # [15:43] <@davidb> groovy
- # [15:43] <@hub> davidb: for the whole week
- # [15:43] <@davidb> ack
- # [15:45] <@eeejay> here is where?
- # [15:45] <@davidb> toronto
- # [15:46] <@davidb> eeejay: you are currently east coast right?
- # [15:46] <@hub> yeah Toronto
- # [15:46] <@eeejay> cool
- # [15:46] <@eeejay> yes
- # [15:46] <@hub> eeejay: Nancy will be dogsitting, so I'll tag along and enjoy MoTo
- # [15:46] <@hub> eeejay: where?
- # [15:47] <@eeejay> hub, awesome. i assume nancy is your partner
- # [15:47] <@eeejay> i'm in nyc visiting my grandparents
- # [15:47] <@hub> eeejay: yeah
- # [15:47] <@davidb> eeejay: so we should have a plan for jsat mochitests
- # [15:48] <Bryen> You couldn't wait a few weeks until I get to NYC? Tsk tsk
- # [15:48] <@eeejay> tsk
- # [15:48] <Bryen> Always always always check my schedule before you travel anywhere!
- # [15:48] <@eeejay> davidb, that sounds good. i have a local mess here that could be used for testing output
- # [15:48] <@davidb> eeejay: can you further define mess?
- # [15:49] <@davidb> :)
- # [15:49] <Bryen> A photo of my house?
- # [15:49] <@eeejay> mess (noun) a patch that is really a bunch of unrelated things that somehow works
- # [15:50] <@davidb> eeejay: is it dumping stuff for testing/comparison?
- # [15:50] <@davidb> or is this about functionality
- # [15:50] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah. i made up a new pref setting that tells accessfu it is in a mochitest
- # [15:50] <@davidb> ok
- # [15:50] <@eeejay> davidb, and then it initialized all presenters
- # [15:50] <@davidb> i will hold off then
- # [15:50] <@davidb> ok
- # [15:51] <@eeejay> davidb, and i made the Output object a member of AccessFu, so you just replace it with something else that will assert stuff
- # [15:51] <@davidb> sweet
- # [15:51] <@davidb> eeejay: this probably obsoletes my patch
- # [15:51] <@davidb> which is a-ok
- # [15:52] <@eeejay> davidb, oops. that is yours?
- # [15:52] <@davidb> eeejay: not much more than you've seen… just the test_live
- # [15:52] <@davidb> alive
- # [15:52] <@eeejay> davidb, that patch should still land
- # [15:52] <@davidb> eeejay: alright
- # [15:53] <@eeejay> davidb, its a start, and then we could add more tests from there
- # [15:53] <@davidb> eeejay: right. do you just want to land it then?
- # [15:53] * @eeejay is looking forward to mochitests that unit test the touchadapter
- # [15:53] <@davidb> your cleaned up version looks fine
- # [15:53] <@eeejay> davidb, sure, i'll add that delete line
- # [15:53] <@davidb> ok
- # [15:54] <@davidb> eeejay: r=you i assume
- # [15:54] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah. you stay the author
- # [15:54] <@davidb> i don't care about that
- # [15:54] <@davidb> if you switch then r=me :)
- # [15:54] <@davidb> marcoz: once this lands you might enjoy adding some tests too :)
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- # [15:54] <@eeejay> well.. maybe we should push to try??
- # [15:54] <@davidb> eeejay: yeah
- # [15:55] * @eeejay forgot how to do that
- # [15:55] <@eeejay> i'll figure it out
- # [15:55] <@davidb> http://trychooser.pub.build.mozilla.org/
- # [15:55] <@davidb> eeejay: did you land the leak fix?
- # [15:55] <@eeejay> i'm also investigating magnifier
- # [15:55] <@davidb> if not push both to try
- # [15:55] <@davidb> excellent
- # [15:55] <@eeejay> yeah, landed that
- # [15:55] <@davidb> eeejay: i want that smart goal
- # [15:56] <@eeejay> s.m.a.r.t.
- # [15:56] <@davidb> also i want to know our unofficial target for accessfu status
- # [15:56] <@davidb> for end of q2
- # [15:56] * Joins: vd (vd@E355CC6C.D7B7DA9B.43EBE9B3.IP)
- # [15:56] <@hub> s.m.r.t.
- # [15:57] <@eeejay> davidb, sounds good
- # [15:57] <vd> tbsaunde: hi, wrt Bug 733712
- # [15:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733712 cri, --, ---, vd, ASSI, Don't call atk_object_set_name
- # [15:57] <@davidb> vd: hi
- # [15:58] <vd> davidb: hi :)
- # [15:58] * @davidb reads the bug
- # [15:58] * @eeejay is reconsidering removing the "AccessFu" name, when there is time for some bike shedding
- # [15:58] <@davidb> oh dear
- # [15:58] <vd> tbsaunde: you mean that the newly added function in my patch could be called foobar() instead of setNameCB() and not be assigned to ...->set_name ?
- # [15:59] <@eeejay> if we add a magnifier, and other modes i think they should all live in the "jsat" namespace and have plain names like ScreenReader, Magnifier, etc..
- # [15:59] <@eeejay> but that is another discussion for later..
- # [15:59] <@davidb> eeejay: it sounds good to me!
- # [15:59] <vd> tbsaunde: or just do not set obj->name at all, nor via atk_..._set_name() nor via setNameCB()?
- # [16:00] <@davidb> eeejay: fits KISS
- # [16:00] <vd> if that is the case, why would we want to do g_object_notify()?
- # [16:00] <@eeejay> i think surkov was advocating for that earlier but i pushed back
- # [16:00] <@davidb> eeejay: time passed.
- # [16:02] <tbsaunde> vd: I guess, but really you don't need a function at all, the only part of that function that is importnat is the g_object_notify() call
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- # [16:03] <vd> tbsaunde: so you want to do the notify thing without changing aAtkObj->name?
- # [16:03] <@marcoz> davidb: eeejay: I'll enjoy adding some tests, too! :)
- # [16:03] <tbsaunde> vd: yes, we can completely ignore atkobj->name
- # [16:04] <@davidb> marcoz: great
- # [16:04] <vd> ok, this is what was puzzling me, as far as I read the code, the notify() call is needed after we change obj->name
- # [16:04] <tbsaunde> vd: g_object_notify() is important because it ends up calling some sort of event listener think in libatk-bridge
- # [16:04] <tbsaunde> vd: well, its actually needed whenever what atk_object_get_name() will return changes
- # [16:05] <@marcoz> hub: Tentative question: When do you think can we return to Mac a11y some more? Recently, builds have really become responsive on the Mac, so it's now on to things like making left and right and up and down arrows actually speak characters and lines etc. in text fields. Both in HTML and surrounding UI. That currently doesn't give any speech feedback.
- # [16:06] <vd> tbsaunde: then what about the logic which avoided the notify() call when obj->name was NULL (being set for the first time), isnt there a chance that if we call notify() unconditionally, then we reintroduce the atk bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/665870 ?
- # [16:06] <@hub> marcoz: I'll try to see what I can do
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- # [16:08] <tbsaunde> vd: I'm not sure need to think about it
- # [16:09] <vd> ok :)
- # [16:10] <tbsaunde> vd: but the easy thing to do would be to do it the simple way and then test
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- # [16:12] <tbsaunde> vd: its time I head to the office, so I'll be afk for a bit
- # [16:12] <@marcoz> hub: Cool! I know B2G keeps dragging you away. :)
- # [16:13] <vd> tbsaunde: ok
- # [16:14] <@marcoz> Hub: The only time I really see performance issues still is when, for example, my blog's main page loads, and the initial interaction with VoiceOver happens. Other than that, performance has really really improved, and I believe much of it has to do also with the clean-up surkov and tbsaunde have been doing.
- # [16:14] <@marcoz> davidb: See above.
- # [16:15] <@davidb> marcoz: it would be really interesting to bisect when then perf improved.
- # [16:20] <@hub> I was about to wonder if we had a monday meeting, but then I realized it is Friday
- # [16:20] <@hub> *sigh*
- # [16:22] <@davidb> lol
- # [16:24] <@davidb> eeejay: re bug 811307 thanks
- # [16:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=811307 nor, --, ---, dbolter, NEW, [AccessFu] Add mochitest for enabling
- # [16:24] <@eeejay> yup
- # [16:25] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5A4BE8E8.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: lizzard)
- # [16:26] <@marcoz> davidb: Hm, I lost track of all the bugs. I know that, since 17, things have been improving a *lot*. And in 22, I'm almost at a point where I could start using it as my main browser on the Mac, except for the text editing stuff.
- # [16:27] <@marcoz> That's currently the main thing holding me back. And I'm sure finding out why content-rich sites still bring us to our knees is going to be much easier now.
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- # [16:48] <tbsaunde> vd: yeah, sorry I was wrong earlier atkobj->name is importnat because we don't want to fire events if the name didn't actually chnage
- # [16:48] <tbsaunde> vd: I'll look at your patch again in a bit
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- # [16:49] <tbsaunde> vd: I think my comments will be something like use // comments, and mybe consider haveing atkobj->name point to a nsString and reinterpret cast back and forth between nsString* and char* but I'm not sure that's nicer than just dealing with the buffer manually
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- # [17:04] <vd> tbsaunde: :)
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- # [17:09] <tbsaunde> vd: sorry again :(
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- # [17:30] <vd> tbsaunde: np, so what's the verdict?
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- # [17:55] <tbsaunde> vd: just had lunch still haven't gotten back to your patch :/
- # [17:55] <vd> np, no hurry :)
- # [18:01] <@marcoz> Weekend! See you on Monday!
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- # [19:22] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 753984 from nobody@mozilla.org to yura.zenevich@gmail.com.
- # [19:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=753984 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Make utterance order configurable
- # [19:22] <@davidb> :)
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- # [21:18] <@firebot> grhm.perry@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 851347 from Untriaged to Disability Access.
- # [21:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=851347 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Autocomplete interferes with use of onscreen / virtual keyboard input to awesome bar and search
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- # Session Close: Sat Mar 16 00:00:00 2013
The end :)