/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-03-21 / end
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- # Session Start: Thu Mar 21 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [01:21] <timmytwot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WPafswrC64
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- # [07:12] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com requested feedback from eitan@monotonous. org for attachment 727535 on bug 753984.
- # [07:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=753984 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Make utterance order configurable
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- # [08:20] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 853340 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [08:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=853340 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, getTextAtOffset for word boundaries: beginning of a new life
- # [08:48] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 727551 on bug 853340.
- # [08:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=853340 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, getTextAtOffset for word boundaries: beginning of a new life
- # [08:48] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 853340 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [08:49] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 853340 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
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- # [13:42] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 726471 on bug 852021.
- # [13:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852021 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, add getText* at caret offset mochitest
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- # [14:12] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
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- # [14:45] <@davidb> heyo!
- # [14:45] <@davidb> marcoz: what's this about surkov and text? he and i emailed about that last week but has he made some kind of commitment?
- # [14:45] <@davidb> hub: shall we 1:1 at 10?
- # [14:45] <@davidb> oh surkov!
- # [14:45] <@davidb> you're here :0
- # [14:45] <@davidb> :)
- # [14:46] <@davidb> firebot: biesi?
- # [14:46] <@firebot> davidb: biesi is Christian Biesinger cbiesinger@gmail.com, networking pwner and the author of the BMP and XBM Decoder. cc ":biesi"
- # [14:48] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, for bug 852044 I think the event checkers in loadURI() need to be made async seem reasonable?
- # [14:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852044 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, ASSI, don't fire events from DocAccessible::ProcessLoad() sync
- # [14:49] <@tbsaunde> in test_scroll.xul
- # [14:49] <@davidb> aha bug 368895 activity
- # [14:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=368895 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [meta] Tracking bug for accessibility API support of text
- # [14:49] <@davidb> awesome
- # [14:50] <@tbsaunde> davidb: and there's some insane patch in my queue :/
- # [14:50] <@davidb> tbsaunde: oh?
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- # [14:50] <@tbsaunde> davidb: bug 853340
- # [14:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=853340 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, getTextAtOffset for word boundaries: beginning of a new life
- # [14:50] <@davidb> haha!
- # [14:51] <@davidb> surkov: this is great to see
- # [14:52] <@marcoz> tbsaunde: davidb: I liked surkov's comment "Don't be picky". Heh.
- # [14:52] <@davidb> yeah just read that
- # [14:52] <@marcoz> davidb: And yes, this is the bug I was also reading when I wrote that tweet. :)
- # [14:52] <@davidb> it all makes sense now
- # [14:52] <@davidb> hmmm EWordMovementType
- # [14:55] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do we wait for more than one event?
- # [14:55] <@surkov> do you have a log?
- # [14:55] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes, doc load and scroll start
- # [14:55] <@tbsaunde> the test assumes scroll start comes after
- # [14:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: so scroll start happens before doc load, we need to check with Jamie if it's ok (at least until we IA2 1.3 is out)
- # [14:56] <@hub> davidb: we can
- # [14:56] <@davidb> hub: ok let's
- # [14:56] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I could grab a try log if you want to see it
- # [14:56] <@surkov> it makes sense
- # [14:56] <@surkov> davidb: it's IA2 text (not UIA)
- # [14:56] <@tbsaunde> surkov: how is ia2 related?
- # [14:57] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ia2 1.3 provides a property to get anchor target
- # [14:57] <@surkov> so if they miss scroll start due to some reason then they can check that property
- # [14:57] <@surkov> but until that the events order can make a difference
- # [14:59] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so I think it could already happen that scroll start happens first, say if you have really slow loading iframe
- # [14:59] <@surkov> tbsaunde: true that happens, the question is if we do things more worst than they were
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- # [15:00] <@surkov> tbsaunde: because it happens we introduced that property
- # [15:00] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I guess
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- # [15:02] <@surkov> marcoz: please keep eyes open on possible regressions because of those (and ongoing) text works
- # [15:03] <@marcoz> surkov: You bet I will!
- # [15:03] <@surkov> thank you
- # [15:04] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, does it make a lot of sennse to land that one patch seperately?
- # [15:05] <@surkov> tbsaunde: why not (especially since we need to work on layout side too). If we are too bad and this gets into aurora then we can back out it from aurora
- # [15:06] <@tbsaunde> surkov: mostly just would be asier to review if I saw the bigger picture
- # [15:06] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I think we will end up with new code
- # [15:06] <@tbsaunde> also would be nice if test cleanup was in another patch but not really related I guess
- # [15:07] <@surkov> and I don't really know how long it could take
- # [15:07] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so what are point of changes then?
- # [15:07] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I tried to chagne those tests that I need to change, kTodo -> kOk transition
- # [15:08] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what changes?
- # [15:08] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure, just would have been nice if you stashed the patch, cleaned up the undefined weirdness in a seperate patch and then changed the kTodo stuff, but ow well at this point
- # [15:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: the HyperTextAccessible stuff
- # [15:09] <@tbsaunde> like what's going to be replaced and what stays?
- # [15:09] <@surkov> tbsaunde: what is point of HyperTextAcc changes?
- # [15:09] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes, I don't get that yet
- # [15:10] <@surkov> tbsaunde: the end version should take for a while, I wouldn't want to keep all of this in my queue for a long time
- # [15:11] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
- # [15:11] <@surkov> tbsaunde: some extra work for reviewer, I get another side on my wips, we get the work in iterative way
- # [15:11] <@surkov> side -> sight
- # [15:11] <@surkov> and we get feedback :)
- # [15:12] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure, just want to understand what's worth caring about and what will change anyway
- # [15:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you should care about new code, old code it's better to check for sainity
- # [15:13] <@surkov> if I do something wrong then I need to know that (and it should be fixed)
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- # [15:14] <@surkov> if you have ideas how to improve things then I can work on it in follow up
- # [15:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: pls take a look at answer in bug 852021, it seems reasonable and I can land
- # [15:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852021 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, add getText* at caret offset mochitest
- # [15:22] <@marcoz> Fun, somebody borked the test harness. OK, will take another stab at testing my changes for bug 811307 tomorrow.
- # [15:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=811307 nor, --, ---, marco.zehe, NEW, [AccessFu] Add mochitest for enabling
- # [15:23] <@marcoz> davidb: When is the next merge day?
- # [15:28] <@tbsaunde> surkov: makes sense mod the spec being insane :/
- # [15:29] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: look at the topic in #developers ;p
- # [15:31] <@surkov> tbsaunde: that's right :)
- # [15:31] <@marcoz> tbsaunde: OK! I think it's wise to not land any of this risky text refactor stuff before the uplift. After the uplift, we have six weeks to solidify it. Since the merge is so close, I think we should just leave the 22 train without any of this refactoring work. CC surkov
- # [15:31] <@surkov> marcoz: it'll be in two weeks?
- # [15:32] <@marcoz> Less than two weeks, on April 2.
- # [15:36] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: probably easier to bback it out unless surkov wants to use a user repo, but that's probably not really better than his queue?
- # [15:36] <@surkov> tbsaunde: should be the same
- # [15:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: what would be the same?
- # [15:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde, marcoz: we can back out if it breaks users
- # [15:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: repo and my queue
- # [15:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, repo is somewhat better if you want me to look at stuff or write patches, but sure
- # [15:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: look at stuff is asking you for review, write patches - perhaps it's too thing place for two :)
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- # [16:03] <@davidb> backing stuff out on aurora is certainly an option
- # [16:03] <@davidb> (i appreciate the risk)
- # [16:10] <@davidb> surkov: does any of this work help UIA text?
- # [16:10] <@davidb> inquiring minds want to know
- # [16:11] <@surkov> davidb: only experience
- # [16:11] <@davidb> i see
- # [16:11] <@surkov> mostly
- # [16:12] <@surkov> fixing layout will help UI of course
- # [16:13] <@davidb> yeah
- # [16:14] <@tbsaunde> surkov: mgorse confirms people cash the result of atk_object_get_name()
- # [16:14] * @davidb wonders if the nvda guys like http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms745158.aspx
- # [16:15] <@surkov> tbsaunde: you mean screen readers?
- # [16:15] <@surkov> then name change event on get_name() won't help
- # [16:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: it sort of helps if some one else ask
- # [16:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, the stuff between screen readers and gecko yes
- # [16:16] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it's so intermittent (but others don't have a reason to ask for a name)
- # [16:17] <@tbsaunde> surkov: why don't they?
- # [16:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: because they rely on cached version
- # [16:17] <@surkov> everybody relies on it :)
- # [16:18] <@tbsaunde> surkov: the cache is per client process, so they can't access other processes caches
- # [16:18] <@surkov> anyway
- # [16:18] <@surkov> if everybody cache names then why anybody would need to ask
- # [16:19] <@tbsaunde> they need to get it one time to have something in the cache don't they ;)
- # [16:19] <@surkov> but I don't really believe that "the hope that somebody will ask for a name and I will update it" works in real life
- # [16:19] <@surkov> tbsaunde: well after the page was loaded, everybody asked for a name
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- # [16:19] <@surkov> and if somebody else is not run after those 2 then it doesn't work :)
- # [16:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: if we miss name change event in some cases then we need to have a bug to fire name chagne events
- # [16:20] <@surkov> it's not atk-only issue I think
- # [16:20] <@surkov> everybody caches name or many ATs do that
- # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so your proposing make name change events always correct?
- # [16:21] <@tbsaunde> that seems pretty hard
- # [16:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I propose to fire it when AT need it
- # [16:21] <@surkov> tbsaunde: yes but fire event if somebody asked for name doesn't work too
- # [16:22] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure, but its the same as the scroll thing do we make things worse
- # [16:22] <@tbsaunde> and what is the harm
- # [16:22] <@surkov> it doesn't seem we make them worth
- # [16:23] <@surkov> honestly I don't believe that anybody relies on that weird get_name behavior
- # [16:23] <@tbsaunde> huh?
- # [16:23] <@surkov> worth -> worst
- # [16:23] <@tbsaunde> I'm not sure, but I don't see too much point to change it
- # [16:24] <@tbsaunde> surkov: and if you want to cchange that shouldn't we change similar stuff for setting parent and description?
- # [16:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: seems so
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- # [16:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, I'm trying to get mgorse to give us a way to just not have name cached, but for now I still don't see a reason to change behavior in that particular bug
- # [16:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it's just weird and we need to introduce new code to implement that weird things
- # [16:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: let's do introduce that code if it makes us a problem?
- # [16:30] <@firebot> chrislord.net@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 852955 from nobody@mozilla.org to chrislord.net@gmail.com.
- # [16:30] <@firebot> chrislord.net@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 852955 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
- # [16:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852955 maj, --, ---, chrislord.net, ASSI, [AccessFu] Trying to activate items at top of pages brings up awesome bar or menu instead
- # [16:31] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I don't see how the logic would be new, and if it is a problem I doubt we'll here about it till its on release
- # [16:32] <@surkov> tbsaunde: the logic is not new, the code is new because event was a side effect we used set_name function
- # [16:33] <@tbsaunde> surkov: it wouldn't suprise me if the reason we use set name function was for event
- # [16:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I must misunderstand something then
- # [16:33] <@surkov> or everything :)
- # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I mean that code was probably written in 2003 or something so who knows why it is the way it is
- # [16:34] <@surkov> because if that logic was introduced on purpose then it was a great crazy mind
- # [16:34] <@surkov> tbsaunde: let's change it and see?
- # [16:34] <@surkov> :)
- # [16:35] <@davidb> great crazy mind? lots of those around here.
- # [16:35] <@surkov> oh yeah
- # [16:35] <@davidb> but maybe it was ginn chen :)
- # [16:35] <@surkov> he's not really crazy afaik
- # [16:36] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that code isn't the most crazy I've seen, but that kind of madness isn't unique there
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- # [16:37] <@surkov> tbsaunde: oh, right. anyway if you really like to keep that madness carefully through our code lines then ok but please make sure there's a bold XXX comment saying this part is crazy
- # [16:37] <@davidb> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/search?string=there+be+dragons
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- # [16:48] <@firebot> chrislord.net@gmail.com requested review from bugmail.mozilla@sta ktrace.com for attachment 727704 on bug 852955.
- # [16:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852955 maj, --, ---, chrislord.net, ASSI, [AccessFu] Trying to activate items at top of pages brings up awesome bar or menu instead
- # [16:49] <@firebot> chrislord.net@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 852955 from chrislord.net@gmail.com to nobody@mozilla.org.
- # [16:49] <@firebot> chrislord.net@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 852955 from ASSIGNED to NEW.
- # [16:49] <@firebot> chrislord.net@gmail.com set status-firefox21 to unaffected on bug 852955.
- # [16:49] <@firebot> chrislord.net@gmail.com set status-firefox22 to affected on bug 852955.
- # [16:50] <@davidb> hmmm, eeejay maybe you'd like to take bug 852955?
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- # [16:50] <@davidb> man i'm hungry
- # [16:51] <@davidb> hub: any ideas?
- # [16:51] <@davidb> wrt food
- # [16:52] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah maybe
- # [16:52] <@hub> davidb: don't know
- # [16:52] <@hub> pondering
- # [16:53] <@davidb> sounds like chinatown
- # [16:55] <@marcoz> eeejay: I hate to pull you away from B2G work, but this is impacting quite a number of users obviously. Can you pick this up? I mean bug 852955.
- # [16:56] <@eeejay> marcoz, chris volunteered mfinkle. in any case, we should have this resolved by next week for sure. when is uplift?
- # [16:56] <@eeejay> maybe i'll put aside tomorrow for android woes
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- # [17:00] <@marcoz> eeejay: Uplift is on April 2.
- # [17:00] <@eeejay> marcoz, yeah, we will nail it before then :)
- # [17:00] <@marcoz> eeejay: But next week and the week after are short weeks for many countries due to the Easter festivities.
- # [17:00] <@eeejay> marcoz, got it, i'm on it tomorrow for sure
- # [17:01] <@eeejay> if not today
- # [17:01] * @eeejay is spineless
- # [17:02] <@eeejay> marcoz, it will be an opportunity to look into my other pet peeves, like not being able to swipe from chrome to content
- # [17:04] <@marcoz> eeejay: Oh yes! And why we're repeating the "page loaded" thing when we first touch (not swipe in) the web content.
- # [17:04] <@marcoz> eeejay: Standing by. ;)
- # [17:05] * @eeejay nods
- # [17:05] <@marcoz> eeejay: davidb: BTW I got my shipping tracking number for the NEXUS 4 today, so expect it to arrive tomorrow.
- # [17:05] <@eeejay> marcoz, you could compile a list for me :)
- # [17:05] <@eeejay> marcoz, awesome, i expect a lot more bug reports when you start using that
- # [17:05] <@marcoz> You bet! :)
- # [17:06] <@marcoz> eeejay: I'll just write this up in an e-mail for now, OK?
- # [17:06] <@eeejay> marcoz, sounds good
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- # [17:12] <@marcoz> eeejay: You've got mail. :)
- # [17:12] <@eeejay> marcoz, thanks :)
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- # [17:20] <@eeejay> http://conversat.io/accessibility
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- # [17:20] <@eeejay> hub, want to join? ^
- # [17:23] * nhirata is now known as nhirata|OoO
- # [17:28] <@marcoz> eeejay: I just brought up the link. Nobody there.
- # [17:28] <@eeejay> marcoz, wait. let me rejoin
- # [17:28] <@eeejay> ok. rejoined
- # [17:29] <@eeejay> weird. when i open both a chrome and ff window, i don't see myself
- # [17:31] <@marcoz> I don't hear you.
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- # [17:31] <@eeejay> marcoz, yeah, weird
- # [17:31] <@eeejay> i guess it doesn't work?
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- # [17:32] <@eeejay> thats too bad. this looks awesome
- # [17:32] <@eeejay> i could hear myself :)
- # [17:33] <@marcoz> This still seems to be highly experimental stuff. :)
- # [17:33] <@tbsaunde> what is it supposed to be?
- # [17:34] <@marcoz> tbsaunde: WebRTC. Conference calls through the browser.
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- # [17:52] <@davidb> marcoz: awesome (n4)
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- # [17:54] <@hub> eeejay: what is it?
- # [17:55] <@eeejay> hub, a webrtc muc video/voip
- # [17:55] <@hub> oh
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- # [18:03] <@marcoz> OK, going off for the night. eeejay If you have anything by tomorrow morning (my time), I'll give it a thorough go, I promise! :)
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- # [19:14] <yzen> eeejay: hi, I added a potential test case for bug 753984, hopefully the format is what you had in mind, I was also wondering if just testing a method that is affected by the preference sufficient enough (whenever you have time of course)?
- # [19:14] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=753984 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Make utterance order configurable
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- # [20:10] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 853581 filed by dbolter@mozilla.com.
- # [20:10] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=853581 nor, --, ---, dbolter, NEW, Minor nsAccUtils cleanup.
- # [20:12] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 727814 on bug 853581.
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- # [20:28] <@davidb> tbsaunde: apologies in advance for such a trivial patch
- # [20:28] * @davidb hunts sugar
- # [20:29] <@tbsaunde> np
- # [20:38] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 727814 on bug 853581.
- # [20:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=853581 nor, --, ---, dbolter, NEW, Minor nsAccUtils cleanup.
- # [20:54] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested needinfo from jamie@nvaccess.or g on bug 852044.
- # [20:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852044 nor, --, ---, trev.saunders, ASSI, don't fire events from DocAccessible::ProcessLoad() sync
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- # [22:05] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 727009 on bug 852804.
- # [22:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852804 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, a11y::SelectionManager shouldn't hold a strong ref to focused element
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- # Session Close: Fri Mar 22 00:00:00 2013
The end :)