/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-03-25 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Mar 25 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:11] <@firebot> matspal@gmail.com granted review for attachment 728765 on bug 809871.
  4. # [00:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809871 nor, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, XUL tree accessible creation may flush layout
  5. # [00:19] <@firebot> matspal@gmail.com granted review for attachment 728766 on bug 809871.
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  7. # [01:28] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 728800 on bug 809871.
  8. # [01:28] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809871 nor, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, XUL tree accessible creation may flush layout
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  19. # [04:57] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled needinfo?(surkov.alexander@ gmail.com) on bug 847233.
  20. # [04:57] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=847233 nor, --, ---, mounir, ASSI, Fix a11y with <input type='file'> changes
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  22. # [05:48] <@firebot> jamie@nvaccess.org cancelled needinfo?(jamie@nvaccess.or g) on bug 847233.
  23. # [05:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=847233 nor, --, ---, mounir, ASSI, Fix a11y with <input type='file'> changes
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  29. # [08:20] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 728800 on bug 809871.
  30. # [08:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=809871 nor, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, XUL tree accessible creation may flush layout
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  49. # [14:12] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
  50. # [14:13] <@davidb> heyo
  51. # [14:13] <@marcoz> Hi davidb!
  52. # [14:21] <@davidb> hi hi
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  57. # [14:46] <@marcoz> Oh fun, installation of a self-built Fennec on Gingerbread seems to be borked.
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  64. # [15:01] <@davidb> marcoz: 1:1?
  65. # [15:01] <@marcoz> davidb: Yes, Sir!
  66. # [15:01] <@marcoz> Firing up Skype.
  67. # [15:02] * @davidb hunts room
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  74. # [15:49] <@davidb> hmmm
  75. # [15:50] <@davidb> trying to run tests locally on mac i get this:
  76. # [15:50] <@davidb> ImportError: No module named mozcrash
  77. # [15:50] <@davidb> hub: do you get that? ^
  78. # [15:50] <@davidb> maybe i need to do some mozcrash mozconfigery
  79. # [15:51] <@hub> davidb: I have never had that
  80. # [15:51] <@hub> at least not last week
  81. # [15:54] <@tbsaunde> davidb: try updating? a bunch of people have had that issue
  82. # [15:54] <@marcoz> davidb: I've had that, too.
  83. # [15:54] <@davidb> i updated 1 hour ago
  84. # [15:54] <@davidb> will try again
  85. # [15:55] <@marcoz> davidb: I've had it since last Wednesday.
  86. # [15:55] <@marcoz> or Thursday.
  87. # [15:55] * @tbsaunde shrugs
  88. # [15:55] * @davidb files
  89. # [15:55] <@hub> let me check
  90. # [15:56] * @davidb holds off
  91. # [15:56] <@tbsaunde> davidb: you realize this is what #developers is for right?
  92. # [15:56] <@davidb> tbsaunde: yeah
  93. # [15:59] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  94. # [16:03] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  95. # [16:19] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 854416 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  96. # [16:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=854416 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Navigating from awesome bar to content via the D-Pad in Gingerbread is broken (again)
  97. # [16:28] <@tbsaunde> vd: hey
  98. # [16:28] <vd> tbsaunde: hey?
  99. # [16:28] <@tbsaunde> vd: so, I'm looking at your new patch
  100. # [16:29] <vd> this time I remembered to use 8 lines of context :)
  101. # [16:29] <@tbsaunde> vd: actually nvm, might just be easier to comment in bug
  102. # [16:30] <vd> sure
  103. # [16:37] <@marcoz> davidb: eeejay: I really wish we had the statistics to tell us what percentage of users using accessible Firefox are still on Gingerbread.
  104. # [16:41] <@davidb> i don't even know if we have this bug 819516
  105. # [16:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=819516 is not accessible
  106. # [16:41] <@davidb> but i seem to recall checking it somehow… probably a dream
  107. # [16:42] <@davidb> tbsaunde: 1:1?
  108. # [16:43] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  109. # [16:49] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 728261 on bug 733712.
  110. # [16:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733712 cri, --, ---, vd, ASSI, Don't call atk_object_set_name
  111. # [16:50] * vd looking
  112. # [16:50] <@tbsaunde> davidb: sure
  113. # [16:51] <@tbsaunde> vd: be away for a bit, but feel free to question and thanks :)
  114. # [16:51] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ok heading to regular spot
  115. # [16:51] <vd> tbsaunde: ok
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  123. # [17:15] <@hub> davidb: mochitest-a11y ran fine
  124. # [17:15] <@davidb> interesting
  125. # [17:15] <@hub> with this AM checkout
  126. # [17:15] <@davidb> oh yeah the suite
  127. # [17:16] <@davidb> AM?
  128. # [17:16] <@hub> morning
  129. # [17:17] <@hub> or is it different test you tried to run?
  130. # [17:17] <@eeejay> morn
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  135. # [17:37] <vd> tbsaunde: ping
  136. # [17:38] <@marcoz> eeejay: Morning! :)
  137. # [17:39] <@eeejay> marcoz, morn morn
  138. # [17:42] <@marcoz> eeejay: So, what's the story with the alternative patch in bug 852955? Why did you decide to go a different path than to disable the dynamic toolbar?
  139. # [17:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=852955 maj, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Trying to activate items at top of pages brings up awesome bar or menu instead
  140. # [17:42] <@eeejay> marcoz, they are meant to be used together
  141. # [17:43] <@marcoz> eeejay: Oh! Aha!
  142. # [17:43] <@marcoz> So even with the disabled dynamic toolbar, the offsets would still be wrong?
  143. # [17:47] <@firebot> joe@drew.ca changed the Resolution on bug 853340 from --- to FIXED.
  144. # [17:47] <@firebot> joe@drew.ca changed the Status on bug 853340 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  145. # [17:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=853340 nor, --, mozilla22, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, getTextAtOffset for word boundaries: beginning of a new life
  146. # [17:55] <@tbsaunde> vd: hi
  147. # [17:59] <vd> tbsaunde:
  148. # [17:59] <vd> > so, that creates an object that only lives for the statement which is going
  149. # [17:59] <vd> > to mean accessing atkObj->name after this statement is a use after free.
  150. # [17:59] <vd> you mean "name" instead of "atkObj->name", right?
  151. # [18:00] <vd> the code is: const gchar* name = NS_ConvertUTF16toUTF8(aNewNameUTF16).get();
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  153. # [18:05] <vd> tbsaunde: anyway, what is more important is are you sure that we do not need the call: "(klass->set_name)(aAtkObj, name);" ?
  154. # [18:05] <@tbsaunde> vd: yeah, I guess I just meant name
  155. # [18:06] <@tbsaunde> vd: and if you you do it the way I suggest with setting atkObj->name I'm sure since we don't override that vfunc which I'll grab the default impl of
  156. # [18:07] <vd> ok, will submit an adjusted patch shortly
  157. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> static void
  158. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> atk_object_real_set_name (AtkObject *object,
  159. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> const gchar *name)
  160. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> {
  161. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> g_free (object->name);
  162. # [18:07] <@tbsaunde> object->name = g_strdup (name);
  163. # [18:08] <@tbsaunde> }
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  165. # [18:09] <vd> ah, I see what you mean - do the free/strdup/notify calls only
  166. # [18:09] <vd> originally I wanted to preserve the body of atk_object_set_name() as much as possible
  167. # [18:11] <@tbsaunde> vd: meh, doesn't seem terribly important
  168. # [18:11] <vd> btw g_free() handles a NULL pointer, but I will check that anyway and will not call g_free(NULL)
  169. # [18:12] <@tbsaunde> vd: I think you can just use free / strdup here without the g_
  170. # [18:12] <vd> hmm, the g_free() body was more involved than just calling free(3), let me look at it again...
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  172. # [18:13] <@tbsaunde> if your the only one allocating / deallocating
  173. # [18:13] <vd> am I?
  174. # [18:13] <vd> :)
  175. # [18:13] <@marcoz> davidb: Do you want to rspond to this? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1996
  176. # [18:13] <@firebot> Bug 1996 enh, P4, ---, nobody, REOP, Support LONGDESC for IMG
  177. # [18:14] <@marcoz> And to the tweet by Laura Carlson?
  178. # [18:14] <@davidb> marcoz: not really
  179. # [18:14] <@davidb> i'm not against it though
  180. # [18:14] <@tbsaunde> vd: I believe so
  181. # [18:14] <@davidb> marcoz: i should look for the tweet i guess
  182. # [18:15] <vd> ok, good
  183. # [18:15] <@davidb> marcoz: ah she cc'ed you :)
  184. # [18:15] <@tbsaunde> vd: I'm also fairly confident we hook glib allocation stuff to go through jemalloc so it wouldn't matter anyway
  185. # [18:16] <vd> ok
  186. # [18:16] * @tbsaunde votes for letting longdesc die of apathy
  187. # [18:17] <@davidb> one way to kill the issue is to add support
  188. # [18:17] <@tbsaunde> vd: sorry this stuff is tricky, the way atk wants to work and the way our internal api want to work don't quiet match up :/
  189. # [18:18] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I thought we do support longdesc?
  190. # [18:18] <@davidb> i think longdesc wastes about 1000 hours a year of various person hours.
  191. # [18:18] <@davidb> here's the paste:
  192. # [18:18] <@davidb> User agents should make the link available to all users through the regular user interface.
  193. # [18:18] <@davidb> User agents should expose the link to relevant APIs, especially accessibility-oriented APIs.
  194. # [18:18] <@davidb> User agents should enable users to discover when images in a page contain a long description.
  195. # [18:18] <@tbsaunde> I'd believe it happily I haven't wasted a full hour yet this year :)
  196. # [18:18] <@davidb> tbsaunde: good.
  197. # [18:18] <vd> tbsaunde: np, as long as you help me with the big picture
  198. # [18:19] <@davidb> marcoz: i'd ask hsivonen
  199. # [18:19] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ah
  200. # [18:21] <vd> tbsaunde: so no braces if there is a single statement after "if (...)" ?
  201. # [18:21] <@tbsaunde> vd: yes
  202. # [18:21] <@tbsaunde> vd: I think the high level looks good
  203. # [18:22] <vd> tbsaunde: ok, there is one more place which you did not mention in the review, changing that one too
  204. # [18:22] <@tbsaunde> vd: are you testing patches at all other than building?
  205. # [18:22] <vd> No!
  206. # [18:22] <@tbsaunde> vd: ok, I can do some of that for you since its not exactly simple
  207. # [18:23] <vd> I was just going to ask how do I do that :)
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  210. # [18:31] <@tbsaunde> vd: so, what I'd probably do is first grab the scrip at people.mozilla.org/~tsaunders/atspimon.py.txt then run it as a python script with the argument Firefox then start firefox
  211. # [18:31] <@tbsaunde> the script will dump all the accessible events from firefox
  212. # [18:32] <@tbsaunde> but you might well be missing dependancies so testing for you is not a problem
  213. # [18:33] <@davidb> marcoz: what is your opinion?
  214. # [18:34] <vd> tbsaunde: will try that one, recompiling right now...
  215. # [18:35] <@tbsaunde> vd: cool :)
  216. # [18:39] <@marcoz> davidb: I have none. I hardly used it when I was using JAWS and IE, and I hardly encountered it in the wild, either. I could see it being useful for more complex images, but I don't think many authors will actually go to the trouble to implement this.
  217. # [18:39] <@marcoz> davidb: In short: Indifferent.
  218. # [18:39] <@davidb> marcoz: the thing is… it is a resource suck
  219. # [18:40] <@davidb> somehow it needs to die or live
  220. # [18:40] <@davidb> tbsaunde: elisha replied.
  221. # [18:41] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I see, guess I need to learn how video works now :/
  222. # [18:42] <@davidb> or tell her to call your cell or something
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  226. # [18:54] <vd> tbsaunde: I am able to run the script, but strangely, firefox is not listed in the output of "python atspimon.py.txt -a", although I have it running
  227. # [19:01] <@firebot> vd@FreeBSD.org requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 729066 on bug 733712.
  228. # [19:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733712 cri, --, ---, vd, ASSI, Don't call atk_object_set_name
  229. # [19:02] <@tbsaunde> vd: is anything shown?
  230. # [19:02] <vd> yes, lots of apps
  231. # [19:02] <vd> btw I submitted the new patch (as the firebot already told us)
  232. # [19:03] <@tbsaunde> vd: that's interesting what is the list
  233. # [19:05] <vd> tbsaunde: http://www.pastebin.mozilla.org/2245329
  234. # [19:06] * Joins: yzen (Adium@AA2C085E.10C8AEF8.9A8C35B4.IP)
  235. # [19:06] <yzen> eeejay: ping
  236. # [19:07] <eeejay> yzen, yo
  237. # [19:07] * Quits: jongunderson (chatzilla@A6FD01C5.C41E9A36.DC3E9228.IP) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931])
  238. # [19:07] <@tbsaunde> vd: are you starting firefox before or after the script?
  239. # [19:08] <vd> before
  240. # [19:08] <yzen> eeejay: :) I was chatting with davidb earlier about my bug, I really want to write some tests for the utterance generation for the whole accessible context (that i m moving from presentation) but presenters context object is not visible since it's not exported. do you have any suggestions as to how to go about it? should it be exported? or should I be testing something similar to the presenters context ?
  241. # [19:10] <@davidb> eeejay i told him to ask you :)
  242. # [19:10] <eeejay> yzen, hm. i'm not sure. part of the refactor we talked about earlier might mean having the utterance generator accept PresenterCOntext
  243. # [19:10] <eeejay> so maybe
  244. # [19:10] <yzen> eeejay: ya that's exactly what im doing
  245. # [19:11] <yzen> something called UtteranceGenerator.genForContext
  246. # [19:11] <eeejay> yzen, nothing is set in stone. so you could go ahead and change things, and i could be another set of eyes to see if it is sane
  247. # [19:11] <yzen> eeejay: sounds good
  248. # [19:13] <@tbsaunde> vd: try after, order is dependant
  249. # [19:13] <@tbsaunde> vd: because firefox only enables accessibility if its enabled in your gnome session, which requires that script running or something else setting the default from off to on
  250. # [19:14] <vd> tbsaunde: but the script quits immediatelly !?
  251. # [19:14] * @tbsaunde checks something
  252. # [19:14] <vd> ah, you mean to run it with a 'firefox' arg
  253. # [19:14] <vd> then it hangs, let me try that...
  254. # [19:14] <@tbsaunde> vd: yeah
  255. # [19:16] <vd> "Registering Event Listener..."
  256. # [19:17] <vd> nothing happens
  257. # [19:18] <@tbsaunde> vd: oh, interesting
  258. # [19:18] <vd> the script does not detect that FF is started while it waits for it
  259. # [19:18] <@tbsaunde> vd: yeah, what happens if you restart it?
  260. # [19:18] <@tbsaunde> or do you have orca installed?
  261. # [19:18] <vd> the script or FF?
  262. # [19:18] <@tbsaunde> the script
  263. # [19:18] <vd> I tried restarting each one a few times :)
  264. # [19:19] <vd> gnome-orca - Scriptable screen reader
  265. # [19:19] <vd> this one?
  266. # [19:19] <@tbsaunde> vd: yes
  267. # [19:19] <vd> yes, that one is installed
  268. # [19:20] <@tbsaunde> vd: what happens if you run it?
  269. # [19:21] <Bryen> tbsaunde, Hey there. Is there a document or page online that gives a complete overview of a11y and Firefox?
  270. # [19:21] <vd> tbsaunde: it starts with a robot voice and a small window with 4 buttons on it
  271. # [19:22] <vd> tbsaunde: I have to go off now, bbl
  272. # [19:23] <@tbsaunde> vd: ok, try restaring firefox after it starts whenever you have time :)
  273. # [19:23] <@tbsaunde> Bryen: I'm not really clear what your looking for
  274. # [19:24] <Bryen> tbsaunde, basically, I want to know a-z about accessibility in Firefox and what you guys are working on hehe
  275. # [19:24] <Bryen> just so I can pretend to know it all.
  276. # [19:25] * habber is now known as habber-away
  277. # [19:25] <@tbsaunde> Bryen: I don't believe there is any such thing but that's still a pretty vague request ;-)
  278. # [19:25] <@davidb> Bryen: we have an out of date vpat somewhere
  279. # [19:25] <@davidb> 6 week trains have made that hard to keep on top of
  280. # [19:26] <@davidb> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/vpat-3.html
  281. # [19:26] <Bryen> heh ok
  282. # [19:26] <@davidb> sort of dry
  283. # [19:26] <Bryen> I'm going to be a DeafBlind equipment trainer soon so I wanted to be able to know where to reference stuff. I'll start with that
  284. # [19:27] <@davidb> wow yeah
  285. # [19:27] <@davidb> ok
  286. # [19:27] <Bryen> NDBEDP program
  287. # [19:28] <@davidb> Bryen: ken saunders hosts http://www.accessfirefox.org/
  288. # [19:28] <@tbsaunde> we have exactly 1 test that forces that accessibles are removed left to right not right to left :/
  289. # [19:28] <@davidb> but it is mostly vis stuff
  290. # [19:28] <@davidb> tbsaunde: why do we test that?
  291. # [19:28] <@davidb> because that is the order of removal?
  292. # [19:28] <@davidb> and we want to preserve it?
  293. # [19:28] <@davidb> or is this a bidi thing?
  294. # [19:29] <@tbsaunde> davidb: what we actually test is that if you have <span><span id=foo><span>11</span><span>22</span></span>33</span> we say the text removal was 1122 not 2211
  295. # [19:30] * Quits: habber-away (habber@moz-8654C0B7.nyc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  296. # [19:30] <@tbsaunde> now I suppsoe its possible to remove the other way and preserve that, but it seems ... hard
  297. # [19:30] <@tbsaunde> its not going to kill anything just make me rewrite some stuff
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  299. # [19:32] <@davidb> hmm yeah i think for LTR languages we probably want left to right
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  301. # [19:34] <@tbsaunde> yeah, and I'd guess we're all sorts of busted for rtl stuff :/
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  316. # [22:07] <@davidb> ark time
  317. # [22:07] <@davidb> afk time even
  318. # [22:07] <@davidb> ciao
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The end :)