/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-04-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 22 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  26. # [05:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 440590 from ginn.chen@oracle.com to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  27. # [05:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 740156 on bug 440590.
  28. # [05:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=440590 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Text selection information is not updated when HTML and XUL entries lose focus
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  34. # [06:08] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 864224 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  35. # [06:08] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=864224 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, group level isn't calculated for nested ARIA listitems
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  39. # [06:46] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 864224 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  40. # [06:46] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 740170 on bug 864224.
  41. # [06:46] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 864224 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  42. # [06:46] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=864224 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, group level isn't calculated for nested ARIA listitems structured by role='group'
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  54. # [08:18] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 740156 on bug 440590.
  55. # [08:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=440590 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Text selection information is not updated when HTML and XUL entries lose focus
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  57. # [08:46] <tbsaunde> 0/win 26
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  59. # [09:20] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 739954 on bug 789245.
  60. # [09:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789245 nor, --, ---, michaljev, NEW, add TableCellAccessible::Row()
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  65. # [10:12] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 440590.
  66. # [10:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=440590 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, Text selection information is not updated when HTML and XUL entries lose focus
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  73. # [12:05] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from marco.zehe@google mail.com on bug 509945.
  74. # [12:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=509945 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Jaws doesn't update elements with overflow:hidden-style
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  87. # [15:29] <@davidb> heyo
  88. # [15:29] * @davidb forages
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  91. # [15:31] <@marcoz> Hi there!
  92. # [15:33] <@davidb> hi marcoz!
  93. # [15:34] <@davidb> i had beers with aaronlev last night
  94. # [15:34] <@davidb> he's doing alright
  95. # [15:34] <@davidb> he still misses mozilla
  96. # [15:34] <@davidb> of course
  97. # [15:34] <@hub> hi
  98. # [15:35] <@davidb> hi hub!
  99. # [15:37] <@marcoz> Hi davidb! Well, good to hear Aaron's doing well! :)
  100. # [15:37] <@davidb> sure is
  101. # [15:48] <Gijs> davidb: glad he's alright. :)
  102. # [15:48] * @davidb nods
  103. # [15:48] <@marcoz> Hi Gijs! :)
  104. # [15:49] <Gijs> hi marcoz ! :)
  105. # [15:56] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 739641 on bug 811307.
  106. # [15:56] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=811307 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Add mochitest for enabling
  107. # [16:05] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com cancelled needinfo?(marco.zehe@google mail.com) on bug 509945.
  108. # [16:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=509945 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Jaws doesn't update elements with overflow:hidden-style
  109. # [16:06] <yzen> marcoz: thanks!
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  116. # [16:57] <@marcoz> Sigh, not getting anything more done today I guess. :( Somehow completely braindead.
  117. # [16:58] <@davidb> marcoz: take care of yourself
  118. # [16:58] <@marcoz> Thanks! Will be back tomorrow, then!
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  121. # [17:06] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ping
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  124. # [17:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 509945 from --- to WORKSFORME.
  125. # [17:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 509945 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  126. # [17:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=509945 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WORKSFORME, Jaws doesn't update elements with overflow:hidden-style
  127. # [17:31] <@davidb> tbsaunde: unping
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  129. # [18:09] <tbsaunde> davidb: hi anyway :)
  130. # [18:09] <@davidb> hi!
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  152. # [20:01] <mwcampbell> How far along is the implementation of accessibility for Firefox OS?
  153. # [20:02] <mwcampbell> I ask because according to a comment on Hacker News, FxOS doesn't yet have enough accessibility for blind users to be used on a daily basis.
  154. # [20:03] * Joins: victorporof (victorporo@42D43E99.BEB908B0.79933D60.IP)
  155. # [20:03] <@hub> mwcampbell: does not have anything
  156. # [20:04] <@davidb> mwcampbell: v1.0 no support. we're working on it!
  157. # [20:08] <mwcampbell> Is v1.0 already released, or in feature freeze?
  158. # [20:08] <mwcampbell> sorry, I'll do some research first
  159. # [20:09] <@davidb> np
  160. # [20:09] <@hub> mwcampbell: Geekphones, which are the only device officially shipping, have 1.0.x and it is not accessible.
  161. # [20:10] <@hub> mwcampbell: eeejay is hard at work to build the foundation of a voice over feature for Firefox OS
  162. # [20:11] <mwcampbell> oh, 1.0 came out in February. Looks like my knowledge was quite behind.
  163. # [20:21] <mwcampbell> eeejay: Are you extending the AccessFu component from Firefox for Android, or doing something new? Do you want help?
  164. # [20:28] <@hub> mwcampbell: he is implementing HTMLSpeech to provide voice over.
  165. # [20:35] <mwcampbell> I'm not familiar with HTMLSpeech. Does anyone have a URL for that?
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  167. # [20:38] <@hub> mwcampbell: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/XGR-htmlspeech-20111206/
  168. # [20:42] <mwcampbell> So the Firefox OS screen reader will be written entirely in JS?
  169. # [20:42] * habber is now known as habber-away
  170. # [20:43] <mwcampbell> Is there yet a version control repo for this?
  171. # [20:43] <mwcampbell> Or is it somewhere in mozilla-central?
  172. # [20:44] <@davidb> the reader is here: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/jsat/
  173. # [20:45] <mwcampbell> Isn't that the same one that was written for Firefox for Android?
  174. # [20:46] <@davidb> yep
  175. # [20:46] <mwcampbell> ah, OK. I remembered correctly, then.
  176. # [20:46] <@davidb> same codebase
  177. # [20:46] <@davidb> yeah you are really up on things
  178. # [20:47] <mwcampbell> I was here several months ago, talking with you guys (mainly MarcoZ and eeejay, I think) about Firefox for Android and Firefox OS.
  179. # [20:47] <mwcampbell> But somehow I was under the impression that the work for FxOS was further along.
  180. # [20:47] <@davidb> there are multiple pieces
  181. # [20:47] <@davidb> but we had something demo-able a while ago
  182. # [20:48] <mwcampbell> ah, OK
  183. # [20:48] <mwcampbell> Just not ready for real use yet?
  184. # [20:49] <mwcampbell> My mistake for assuming that if it was demo-able in October (when Marco attended the accessibility conference in Vienna), it would be ready to release in February.
  185. # [20:50] <mwcampbell> I gather, then, that the part that needs work isn't the screen reader itself, but the interface to TTS engines.
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  187. # [20:52] <@davidb> there was a period of time i was hopeful for v1.0 a11y
  188. # [20:52] <@davidb> alas it was a big ask.
  189. # [20:53] <@davidb> with complications due to code churn and scheduling
  190. # [20:53] <mwcampbell> I'm sorry if I came across as too demanding.
  191. # [20:53] <@davidb> a lot of work will be in the UI itself… the html markup
  192. # [20:53] <@davidb> not at all.
  193. # [20:53] <@davidb> questions are welcome!
  194. # [20:54] <mwcampbell> I'll be honest though; I'm disappointed.
  195. # [20:54] <@davidb> fair.
  196. # [20:54] <mwcampbell> guess I shoudl have volunteered to help
  197. # [20:54] <@davidb> well
  198. # [20:54] <@davidb> the schedule was crazy capital C
  199. # [20:55] <@davidb> to deliver something we're proud of… not sure extra bodies would have helped
  200. # [20:56] <mwcampbell> right, there's always increased coordination overhead when you add more people.
  201. # [20:57] <@davidb> but we are happy to have help
  202. # [20:57] <@davidb> we're targeting v2
  203. # [20:57] <@davidb> best to dive into that when eeejay is around
  204. # [20:58] <mwcampbell> I'll stick around and wait for him to return.
  205. # [20:59] <mwcampbell> I guess Apple and Google have got everyone else scrambling. Windows Phone didn't (doesn't?) have accessibilit yeither.
  206. # [20:59] <mwcampbell> And it doesn't seem likely that Tizen or Ubuntu Phone will either.
  207. # [21:00] <@davidb> i'm excited with what we can do with ff os
  208. # [21:01] <mwcampbell> I wonder, though, if the low-end FxOS phones that seem likely to be common in developing countries will have enough resources to run a screen reader.
  209. # [21:02] <mwcampbell> of course, much less capable PCs were running screen readers with software-based TTS in the late 90s.
  210. # [21:02] <@davidb> we've been using similar devices in testing
  211. # [21:02] <mwcampbell> ah, cool
  212. # [21:02] <mwcampbell> My concern is that handset makers and carriers, in an effort to drive down prices, will go with the minimum specs that are necessary to scrape by *without* a screen reader.
  213. # [21:02] * @eeejay waves
  214. # [21:03] <mwcampbell> that what many users will end up with is something like an iPhone 4 running iOS 6 and VoiceOver, or worse.
  215. # [21:04] <mwcampbell> eeejay: Hi. I was asking about the status of FxOS accessibility earlier. What component needs the most work?
  216. # [21:05] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, can't put my finger on one thing. there are a few critical pieces
  217. # [21:05] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, why?
  218. # [21:05] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, what can you offer? :)
  219. # [21:06] <mwcampbell> Well, I can only offer my own spare time on weekends.
  220. # [21:06] <mwcampbell> maybe evenings
  221. # [21:06] <mwcampbell> But I'm a generalist developer, proficient in JS and C++
  222. # [21:06] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, gotcha
  223. # [21:07] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, the biggest task is getting our ui screen reader friendly
  224. # [21:07] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, i'm working on making it easier for all sorts of people to test
  225. # [21:07] <mwcampbell> presumably by adding ARIA support
  226. # [21:08] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, yes, but not only
  227. # [21:08] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, have you played with fxos before?
  228. # [21:09] <mwcampbell> Not yet. I'm thinking about ordering a Geeksphone device.
  229. # [21:09] <mwcampbell> when they become available.
  230. # [21:09] <mwcampbell> My only other option right now would be the simulator.
  231. # [21:09] <mwcampbell> (unless there's some way to make it run on an iPhone 4)
  232. # [21:10] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, do you use a screen reader yourself?
  233. # [21:10] <mwcampbell> Yes, sometimes, and I've developed one.
  234. # [21:10] <@eeejay> mwcampbell, cool
  235. # [21:11] * Quits: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5A4BE8E8.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Quit: lizzard)
  236. # [21:11] <@hub> mwcampbell: there is no way to make it run on an iphone
  237. # [21:11] <mwcampbell> didn't think so
  238. # [21:11] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-5A4BE8E8.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  239. # [21:13] <mwcampbell> I'm guessing that to test my work in anything resembling the actual target environment, I'll need to get a FxOS-capable device.
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The end :)