/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-05-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu May 23 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  4. # [00:43] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 751956 on bug 873453.
  5. # [00:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873453 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Implement IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF
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  14. # [03:19] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 752682 on bug 873358.
  15. # [03:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873358 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, textarea claims bogus trailing \n (HTML br)
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  18. # [03:55] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 873453 from nobody@mozilla.org to zach.xuku@gmail.com.
  19. # [03:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873453 nor, --, ---, zach.xuku, NEW, Implement IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF
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  24. # [05:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, your not worried that running js while we dispatch platform events could cause us to dispatch an event but too late?
  25. # [05:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: not much
  26. # [05:13] <@tbsaunde> for example what happens if an addon has a js event handler that when it sees a accessible has become checked unchecks it
  27. # [05:14] <@tbsaunde> then we'll deliver the uncheck event, and then get back to the original event, and the accessible might well not be defunct so we dispatch it too
  28. # [05:14] <@surkov> AT receives a last event and it should be ok
  29. # [05:15] <@surkov> are you saying that we deliver unchecked event prior to checked event?
  30. # [05:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes
  31. # [05:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I miss how it happens, if we fired checked event then somebody unchecked the checkbox, it fired unchecked event, we pushed it into the queue, seems to be after checked event
  32. # [05:18] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, you start to fire checked event, and so you call into to js to notify them
  33. # [05:18] <@tbsaunde> then js causes accessible to become unchecked and flushes layout so uncheck event goes in queue and queue is flushed
  34. # [05:19] <@tbsaunde> then js returns to function firing check event and check event is fired
  35. # [05:22] <@tbsaunde> surkov: make sense?
  36. # [05:22] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you mean we reenter into WillRefresh?
  37. # [05:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes
  38. # [05:23] <@tbsaunde> that's part of it
  39. # [05:23] <@surkov> don't we have a protection from this?
  40. # [05:24] <@tbsaunde> surkov: like what?
  41. # [05:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: by mObservingState
  42. # [05:24] <@surkov> it seems we don't but we can add it
  43. # [05:25] <@surkov> it doesn't make sense to reenter into WIllRefresh
  44. # [05:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, that's what I've been saying :)
  45. # [05:26] <@surkov> ok :) but we don't necessary need to use runnables for event dispatching to avoid that
  46. # [05:26] <@surkov> we can rely on mObservingState
  47. # [05:26] <@tbsaunde> maybe, but runnables seems simpler and more clearly takes care of all problems
  48. # [05:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: my concern is those runnables are stored somewhere, we used to keep them already so we put them from one place in memory to another one, alternative is adding a field check to avoid reentrance, it's simpler
  49. # [05:31] <@surkov> are runnable hungry about resources?
  50. # [05:31] <@surkov> we may have to run a lot of them
  51. # [05:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'd think you'd just have vtable pointer and pointer to the event
  52. # [05:32] <@tbsaunde> I don't see why we couldn't fire one runnable per WillRefresh()
  53. # [05:33] <@tbsaunde> in which maybe s/pointer to event/nsTArray/ but whatever a TAarray is small if you don't count the buffer which we'd just swap from the one in EventQueue
  54. # [05:36] <@surkov> well, that should do a trick
  55. # [05:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, that's why I suggested it ;p
  56. # [05:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I still have a feeling that this approach is different from the approach taken in that function
  57. # [05:40] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that function ==?
  58. # [05:44] <@surkov> tbsaunde: WillRefresh
  59. # [05:44] <@surkov> since it's controlled by mObservingState
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  64. # [05:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well I think wwe should atleast assert mObservingState isn't eUpdating or whatever it is when we enter the function, but I'm not sure we need to do more today
  65. # [05:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: maybe not assert but return early since your scenario looks valid
  66. # [05:51] <@surkov> surkov: mObservingState is more flexible now since I guess we can reenter because of bugs when we trigger reflow during tree creation
  67. # [05:51] <@surkov> (talking to myself, interesting)
  68. # [05:53] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, we really shouldn't be triggering reflow ourselves..
  69. # [05:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: right but we still find bugs where we do this
  70. # [05:53] <@tbsaunde> but maybe returning early isn't terrible if we also assert
  71. # [05:53] <@surkov> like your recent XUL tree work
  72. # [05:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure but we should fix those things
  73. # [05:54] <@surkov> assertion seems to be expected thing in your example
  74. # [05:54] <@surkov> ok
  75. # [05:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: would you mind to put a summary into the bug?
  76. # [05:57] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, and I'll try and fix in next few days
  77. # [05:57] <@surkov> tbsaunde: cool, thank you
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  79. # [06:58] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 873358.
  80. # [06:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873358 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, textarea claims bogus trailing \n (HTML br)
  81. # [07:03] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 875201 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  82. # [07:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875201 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, move getText at word boundary tests into test_wordboundery.html
  83. # [07:03] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 875201 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
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  103. # [12:36] <@firebot> dao@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 719761 from --- to WONTFIX.
  104. # [12:36] <@firebot> dao@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 719761 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  105. # [12:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719761 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Can't navigate to <splitmenu> menuitems in App Button menu using keyboard
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  112. # [13:52] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 873453 from --- to FIXED.
  113. # [13:52] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 873453 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  114. # [13:52] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 873453 from --- to mozilla24.
  115. # [13:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873453 nor, --, mozilla24, zach.xuku, RESO FIXED, Implement IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF
  116. # [13:53] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 873358 from --- to FIXED.
  117. # [13:53] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 873358 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  118. # [13:53] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 873358 from --- to mozilla24.
  119. # [13:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873358 nor, --, mozilla24, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, textarea claims bogus trailing \n (HTML br)
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  125. # [14:23] <@marcoz> Good day all!
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  130. # [15:02] <@eeejay> marcoz, maxli, morning!
  131. # [15:02] <@marcoz> eeejay: maxli: Morning! :)
  132. # [15:03] <@eeejay> marcoz, searching for a conference room
  133. # [15:03] <@eeejay> maybe we will do this on skype
  134. # [15:03] <@marcoz> Fine with me!
  135. # [15:04] <@marcoz> Let me know which and I'll fire it up.
  136. # [15:04] <@eeejay> marcoz, we are on skype, my name
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  148. # [15:30] <@marcoz> Morning davidb!
  149. # [15:33] <@davidb> hi marcoz!
  150. # [15:33] <@davidb> heyo
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  152. # [15:42] <@davidb> i'm so happy jaws is testing aurora now (instead of release)
  153. # [15:42] <@davidb> marcoz: thanks for the braille display info. reading.
  154. # [15:44] <@davidb> maxli: this looks like a good bet, for having on hand… what do you think? http://www.freedomscientific.com/products/fs/focus-40-blue-new-product-page.asp
  155. # [15:44] <@davidb> wow pricey
  156. # [15:45] <@davidb> marcoz: i wonder if the 40 makes more sense… given users would presumably use a portable display with android
  157. # [15:53] <maxli> you weren't kidding when you said they were expensive
  158. # [15:54] <@davidb> there are much more expensive ones :)
  159. # [15:54] <@marcoz> davidb: The 14 is certainly much more affordable, but many blind users actually use a 32 or 40 cell display rather than these very small ones, because they like more reading space.
  160. # [15:55] <@davidb> marcoz: i'm wondering about the most common use case
  161. # [15:55] <@marcoz> davidb: I myself can cope very well with only 14 cells when I'm on the go, so I decided to go for the 14. But also if you want to show something to non-a11y-versed folks, the 40 allows for a better understanding I think.
  162. # [15:55] <@davidb> oh hmm
  163. # [15:55] <@marcoz> davidb: I think 40 is more common than 14.
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  167. # [15:56] <@davidb> marcoz: so presumably those would be used while checking the phone at home or at a table somewhere?
  168. # [15:57] <@marcoz> davidb: Yes.
  169. # [15:57] <@davidb> ok
  170. # [15:57] <@davidb> thanks
  171. # [15:57] <@marcoz> So, now to find a dealer in Canada. :) Don't know if Canadians can order from FS directly. They used to be quite restrictive on that.
  172. # [15:58] <@davidb> marcoz: i could probably go through my old work
  173. # [15:59] <@davidb> They give: Place Prestige in Quebec
  174. # [16:00] <@davidb> oh Canadialog is the name of the dealer
  175. # [16:00] <@davidb> tada http://www.canadialog.com/en/focus
  176. # [16:12] <@marcoz> Aha! Well should be easy then! :)
  177. # [16:12] <@marcoz> davidb: :)
  178. # [16:12] <@davidb> yeah and I'm checking with some old colleagues first
  179. # [16:13] <@davidb> marcoz: just thinking wildly for a moment...
  180. # [16:13] <@davidb> could a device be designed...
  181. # [16:14] <@davidb> where you place your fingers over the cells but don't move them.
  182. # [16:14] <@davidb> and a rotating wheel underneath does the braille pinouts
  183. # [16:14] <@davidb> and simulates dragging your finger across the braille
  184. # [16:14] <@davidb> i suspect the lack of proprioception and back checking would be a problem
  185. # [16:14] <@davidb> and you want both directions
  186. # [16:15] <@davidb> even 360 degrees of direction… :/
  187. # [16:15] <@davidb> maybe small finger movements could drive the direction
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  190. # [16:19] <@marcoz> davidb: There have been experiments with that, the problem is that one never reads every word at the same speed. While it may seem so superficially, it isn't in practice. So the own movement over a fixed surface is the most productive way I and all other braille readers I know are reading braille.
  191. # [16:20] <@davidb> i easily believe it.
  192. # [16:20] <@marcoz> I even never used any of the auto-advance features some braille display/software packages offer, I always wanted full control over when the display advanced or went back by the press of a button.
  193. # [16:21] <@marcoz> Handy Tech offer a model in some of their displays that recognizes when you get to the end of a section and swipe left with your hand to read the next. That worked reasonably well, but it is still the movement of the own hand that controls it.
  194. # [16:24] <@davidb> interesting
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  196. # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> man I can't imagine myself using a braille display with a phone
  197. # [16:35] <@tbsaunde> but I don't play with my phone espeically someplace I could reasonably use a braille display
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  203. # [17:05] <@davidb> firebot: hi
  204. # [17:05] <@firebot> bonjour davidb
  205. # [17:05] <@davidb> firebot: cookie?
  206. # [17:05] <@firebot> Thegame10
  207. # [17:05] <@davidb> aroo?
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  216. # [17:51] <@davidb> tbsaunde: burrito run in 10 mins?
  217. # [17:51] <@davidb> maxli, eeejay ^
  218. # [17:51] * @eeejay is down with that
  219. # [17:52] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ack
  220. # [17:56] * @marcoz envies you. There are no good burritos in Germany.
  221. # [17:56] <@marcoz> davidb: Would it be too much if I gave the Facebook accessibility efforts some love on my blog?
  222. # [17:57] <@davidb> i don't see how that would be too much at all
  223. # [17:57] <@davidb> marcoz: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.asp
  224. # [17:57] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: compared to the sf toronto's aren't any good either
  225. # [17:57] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hush now
  226. # [17:58] <@davidb> also… roll?
  227. # [17:58] <@marcoz> davidb: Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaa!
  228. # [17:58] <@tbsaunde> davidb: you know its just stockholm syndrome and toronto is chicago--
  229. # [17:58] <@tbsaunde> sure
  230. # [18:05] <@marcoz> OK, have fun at lunch! See you tomorrow, gentlemen!
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  241. # [19:05] * eeejay sets mode: +o davidb
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  244. # [19:47] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 753101 on bug 875201.
  245. # [19:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875201 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, move getText at word boundary tests into test_wordboundery.html
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  248. # [20:09] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 753378 on bug 869280.
  249. # [20:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=869280 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, Add temporary modal subtree to pivot API
  250. # [20:09] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 753379 on bug 869280.
  251. # [20:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: here's the patch you wanted http://paste.debian.net/6072/
  252. # [20:24] <@davidb> hokeydoke
  253. # [20:28] <@tbsaunde> thx
  254. # [20:29] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 753379 on bug 869280.
  255. # [20:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=869280 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, Add temporary modal subtree to pivot API
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  259. # [21:16] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hmmm this looks possibly not ideal "0:05.60 INFO | setup.js | error loading or parsing 'http://mochi.test:8888/'"
  260. # [21:17] <@tbsaunde> davidb: that is yeah
  261. # [21:17] <@davidb> but hmmm i also get that when running a passing test file
  262. # [21:18] <@davidb> so maybe we can ignore it
  263. # [21:18] <@tbsaunde> wtf!
  264. # [21:18] * @davidb shrugs
  265. # [21:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ok i get the same problem with other xhtml tests…
  266. # [21:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: do you use mach to run the test?
  267. # [21:21] <@davidb> singly?
  268. # [21:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no
  269. # [21:22] <@davidb> for example relations/test_bindings.xhtml barfs as well
  270. # [21:22] <@davidb> and events/test_mutation.xhtml
  271. # [21:23] <@tbsaunde> ok
  272. # [21:23] <@davidb> are these just silently broken?
  273. # [21:23] * @davidb checks tbpl
  274. # [21:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: pretty sure the other tests work for me, but let me check
  275. # [21:24] <@davidb> ok
  276. # [21:25] <@davidb> xhtml tests seem to run ok on tbpl
  277. # [21:26] <@davidb> so… harumph
  278. # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, seems if I run the containing directory they run fine locally
  279. # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> but not the single file
  280. # [21:28] <@davidb> and only xhtml right?
  281. # [21:28] <@tbsaunde> yeah, html and xul I think generally work
  282. # [21:30] <@davidb> tbsaunde: when i run all of treeupdate/* your test shows 3 passes
  283. # [21:31] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok, well the passes are useless so far
  284. # [21:31] <@davidb> so the behaviour is consistent with xhtml files not running singly locally
  285. # [21:31] <@tbsaunde> the test doesn't actually test anything
  286. # [21:31] <@davidb> but at least it doesn't show no tests run
  287. # [21:31] <@tbsaunde> true
  288. # [21:32] <@davidb> so i'd say carry on but don't test singly?
  289. # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> I guess I'll suck it up and run the whole dir and see if I can get ti to test that bug unless you're board and want to
  290. # [21:32] <@davidb> it isn't about bordom
  291. # [21:32] <@davidb> :)
  292. # [21:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what test is needed?
  293. # [21:36] <@tbsaunde> davidb: more or less port the fuzz test case to be a mochitest
  294. # [21:36] * @davidb looks
  295. # [21:36] <@tbsaunde> see the first attachment for what the test case is
  296. # [21:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, but its not exactly completely reasonable to make other people write tests for me as much as I would like it
  297. # [21:37] <@davidb> asking is fine
  298. # [21:37] <@davidb> the test case appears straight forward
  299. # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> yeah, its not a terrible test case
  300. # [21:38] <@davidb> does it need the table and tr?
  301. # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> and lithium is about the best thing ever
  302. # [21:38] <@davidb> oh i guess yeah
  303. # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> yeah, pretty sure its all needed
  304. # [21:44] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i'm putting this into an hour slot in my tomorrow morning :)
  305. # [21:44] <@davidb> probably easy to right but take some time to a/b test
  306. # [21:44] <@tbsaunde> sgtm
  307. # [21:44] <@davidb> right/write
  308. # [21:44] <@davidb> cool
  309. # [21:45] <@tbsaunde> yeah
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  320. # Session Close: Fri May 24 00:00:01 2013

The end :)