/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-05-23 / end
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- # Session Start: Thu May 23 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [00:43] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 751956 on bug 873453.
- # [00:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873453 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Implement IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF
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- # [03:19] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 752682 on bug 873358.
- # [03:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873358 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, textarea claims bogus trailing \n (HTML br)
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- # [03:55] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 873453 from nobody@mozilla.org to zach.xuku@gmail.com.
- # [03:55] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873453 nor, --, ---, zach.xuku, NEW, Implement IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF
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- # [05:13] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, your not worried that running js while we dispatch platform events could cause us to dispatch an event but too late?
- # [05:13] <@surkov> tbsaunde: not much
- # [05:13] <@tbsaunde> for example what happens if an addon has a js event handler that when it sees a accessible has become checked unchecks it
- # [05:14] <@tbsaunde> then we'll deliver the uncheck event, and then get back to the original event, and the accessible might well not be defunct so we dispatch it too
- # [05:14] <@surkov> AT receives a last event and it should be ok
- # [05:15] <@surkov> are you saying that we deliver unchecked event prior to checked event?
- # [05:16] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes
- # [05:17] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I miss how it happens, if we fired checked event then somebody unchecked the checkbox, it fired unchecked event, we pushed it into the queue, seems to be after checked event
- # [05:18] <@tbsaunde> surkov: so, you start to fire checked event, and so you call into to js to notify them
- # [05:18] <@tbsaunde> then js causes accessible to become unchecked and flushes layout so uncheck event goes in queue and queue is flushed
- # [05:19] <@tbsaunde> then js returns to function firing check event and check event is fired
- # [05:22] <@tbsaunde> surkov: make sense?
- # [05:22] <@surkov> tbsaunde: do you mean we reenter into WillRefresh?
- # [05:23] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yes
- # [05:23] <@tbsaunde> that's part of it
- # [05:23] <@surkov> don't we have a protection from this?
- # [05:24] <@tbsaunde> surkov: like what?
- # [05:24] <@surkov> tbsaunde: by mObservingState
- # [05:24] <@surkov> it seems we don't but we can add it
- # [05:25] <@surkov> it doesn't make sense to reenter into WIllRefresh
- # [05:25] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, that's what I've been saying :)
- # [05:26] <@surkov> ok :) but we don't necessary need to use runnables for event dispatching to avoid that
- # [05:26] <@surkov> we can rely on mObservingState
- # [05:26] <@tbsaunde> maybe, but runnables seems simpler and more clearly takes care of all problems
- # [05:30] <@surkov> tbsaunde: my concern is those runnables are stored somewhere, we used to keep them already so we put them from one place in memory to another one, alternative is adding a field check to avoid reentrance, it's simpler
- # [05:31] <@surkov> are runnable hungry about resources?
- # [05:31] <@surkov> we may have to run a lot of them
- # [05:32] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'd think you'd just have vtable pointer and pointer to the event
- # [05:32] <@tbsaunde> I don't see why we couldn't fire one runnable per WillRefresh()
- # [05:33] <@tbsaunde> in which maybe s/pointer to event/nsTArray/ but whatever a TAarray is small if you don't count the buffer which we'd just swap from the one in EventQueue
- # [05:36] <@surkov> well, that should do a trick
- # [05:38] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, that's why I suggested it ;p
- # [05:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I still have a feeling that this approach is different from the approach taken in that function
- # [05:40] <@tbsaunde> surkov: that function ==?
- # [05:44] <@surkov> tbsaunde: WillRefresh
- # [05:44] <@surkov> since it's controlled by mObservingState
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- # [05:49] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well I think wwe should atleast assert mObservingState isn't eUpdating or whatever it is when we enter the function, but I'm not sure we need to do more today
- # [05:50] <@surkov> tbsaunde: maybe not assert but return early since your scenario looks valid
- # [05:51] <@surkov> surkov: mObservingState is more flexible now since I guess we can reenter because of bugs when we trigger reflow during tree creation
- # [05:51] <@surkov> (talking to myself, interesting)
- # [05:53] <@tbsaunde> surkov: well, we really shouldn't be triggering reflow ourselves..
- # [05:53] <@surkov> tbsaunde: right but we still find bugs where we do this
- # [05:53] <@tbsaunde> but maybe returning early isn't terrible if we also assert
- # [05:53] <@surkov> like your recent XUL tree work
- # [05:54] <@tbsaunde> surkov: sure but we should fix those things
- # [05:54] <@surkov> assertion seems to be expected thing in your example
- # [05:54] <@surkov> ok
- # [05:56] <@surkov> tbsaunde: would you mind to put a summary into the bug?
- # [05:57] <@tbsaunde> surkov: yeah, and I'll try and fix in next few days
- # [05:57] <@surkov> tbsaunde: cool, thank you
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- # [06:58] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 873358.
- # [06:58] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873358 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, textarea claims bogus trailing \n (HTML br)
- # [07:03] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 875201 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [07:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875201 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, move getText at word boundary tests into test_wordboundery.html
- # [07:03] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 875201 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
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- # [12:36] <@firebot> dao@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 719761 from --- to WONTFIX.
- # [12:36] <@firebot> dao@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 719761 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [12:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719761 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO WONTFIX, Can't navigate to <splitmenu> menuitems in App Button menu using keyboard
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- # [13:52] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 873453 from --- to FIXED.
- # [13:52] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 873453 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [13:52] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 873453 from --- to mozilla24.
- # [13:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873453 nor, --, mozilla24, zach.xuku, RESO FIXED, Implement IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF
- # [13:53] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 873358 from --- to FIXED.
- # [13:53] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 873358 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [13:53] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 873358 from --- to mozilla24.
- # [13:53] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873358 nor, --, mozilla24, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, textarea claims bogus trailing \n (HTML br)
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- # [14:23] <@marcoz> Good day all!
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- # [15:02] <@eeejay> marcoz, maxli, morning!
- # [15:02] <@marcoz> eeejay: maxli: Morning! :)
- # [15:03] <@eeejay> marcoz, searching for a conference room
- # [15:03] <@eeejay> maybe we will do this on skype
- # [15:03] <@marcoz> Fine with me!
- # [15:04] <@marcoz> Let me know which and I'll fire it up.
- # [15:04] <@eeejay> marcoz, we are on skype, my name
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- # [15:30] <@marcoz> Morning davidb!
- # [15:33] <@davidb> hi marcoz!
- # [15:33] <@davidb> heyo
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- # [15:42] <@davidb> i'm so happy jaws is testing aurora now (instead of release)
- # [15:42] <@davidb> marcoz: thanks for the braille display info. reading.
- # [15:44] <@davidb> maxli: this looks like a good bet, for having on hand… what do you think? http://www.freedomscientific.com/products/fs/focus-40-blue-new-product-page.asp
- # [15:44] <@davidb> wow pricey
- # [15:45] <@davidb> marcoz: i wonder if the 40 makes more sense… given users would presumably use a portable display with android
- # [15:53] <maxli> you weren't kidding when you said they were expensive
- # [15:54] <@davidb> there are much more expensive ones :)
- # [15:54] <@marcoz> davidb: The 14 is certainly much more affordable, but many blind users actually use a 32 or 40 cell display rather than these very small ones, because they like more reading space.
- # [15:55] <@davidb> marcoz: i'm wondering about the most common use case
- # [15:55] <@marcoz> davidb: I myself can cope very well with only 14 cells when I'm on the go, so I decided to go for the 14. But also if you want to show something to non-a11y-versed folks, the 40 allows for a better understanding I think.
- # [15:55] <@davidb> oh hmm
- # [15:55] <@marcoz> davidb: I think 40 is more common than 14.
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- # [15:56] <@davidb> marcoz: so presumably those would be used while checking the phone at home or at a table somewhere?
- # [15:57] <@marcoz> davidb: Yes.
- # [15:57] <@davidb> ok
- # [15:57] <@davidb> thanks
- # [15:57] <@marcoz> So, now to find a dealer in Canada. :) Don't know if Canadians can order from FS directly. They used to be quite restrictive on that.
- # [15:58] <@davidb> marcoz: i could probably go through my old work
- # [15:59] <@davidb> They give: Place Prestige in Quebec
- # [16:00] <@davidb> oh Canadialog is the name of the dealer
- # [16:00] <@davidb> tada http://www.canadialog.com/en/focus
- # [16:12] <@marcoz> Aha! Well should be easy then! :)
- # [16:12] <@marcoz> davidb: :)
- # [16:12] <@davidb> yeah and I'm checking with some old colleagues first
- # [16:13] <@davidb> marcoz: just thinking wildly for a moment...
- # [16:13] <@davidb> could a device be designed...
- # [16:14] <@davidb> where you place your fingers over the cells but don't move them.
- # [16:14] <@davidb> and a rotating wheel underneath does the braille pinouts
- # [16:14] <@davidb> and simulates dragging your finger across the braille
- # [16:14] <@davidb> i suspect the lack of proprioception and back checking would be a problem
- # [16:14] <@davidb> and you want both directions
- # [16:15] <@davidb> even 360 degrees of direction… :/
- # [16:15] <@davidb> maybe small finger movements could drive the direction
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- # [16:19] <@marcoz> davidb: There have been experiments with that, the problem is that one never reads every word at the same speed. While it may seem so superficially, it isn't in practice. So the own movement over a fixed surface is the most productive way I and all other braille readers I know are reading braille.
- # [16:20] <@davidb> i easily believe it.
- # [16:20] <@marcoz> I even never used any of the auto-advance features some braille display/software packages offer, I always wanted full control over when the display advanced or went back by the press of a button.
- # [16:21] <@marcoz> Handy Tech offer a model in some of their displays that recognizes when you get to the end of a section and swipe left with your hand to read the next. That worked reasonably well, but it is still the movement of the own hand that controls it.
- # [16:24] <@davidb> interesting
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- # [16:34] <@tbsaunde> man I can't imagine myself using a braille display with a phone
- # [16:35] <@tbsaunde> but I don't play with my phone espeically someplace I could reasonably use a braille display
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- # [17:05] <@davidb> firebot: hi
- # [17:05] <@firebot> bonjour davidb
- # [17:05] <@davidb> firebot: cookie?
- # [17:05] <@firebot> Thegame10
- # [17:05] <@davidb> aroo?
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- # [17:51] <@davidb> tbsaunde: burrito run in 10 mins?
- # [17:51] <@davidb> maxli, eeejay ^
- # [17:51] * @eeejay is down with that
- # [17:52] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ack
- # [17:56] * @marcoz envies you. There are no good burritos in Germany.
- # [17:56] <@marcoz> davidb: Would it be too much if I gave the Facebook accessibility efforts some love on my blog?
- # [17:57] <@davidb> i don't see how that would be too much at all
- # [17:57] <@davidb> marcoz: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.asp
- # [17:57] <@tbsaunde> marcoz: compared to the sf toronto's aren't any good either
- # [17:57] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hush now
- # [17:58] <@davidb> also… roll?
- # [17:58] <@marcoz> davidb: Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaa!
- # [17:58] <@tbsaunde> davidb: you know its just stockholm syndrome and toronto is chicago--
- # [17:58] <@tbsaunde> sure
- # [18:05] <@marcoz> OK, have fun at lunch! See you tomorrow, gentlemen!
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- # [19:47] <@firebot> trev.saunders@gmail.com granted review for attachment 753101 on bug 875201.
- # [19:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875201 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, move getText at word boundary tests into test_wordboundery.html
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- # [20:09] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 753378 on bug 869280.
- # [20:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=869280 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, Add temporary modal subtree to pivot API
- # [20:09] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 753379 on bug 869280.
- # [20:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: here's the patch you wanted http://paste.debian.net/6072/
- # [20:24] <@davidb> hokeydoke
- # [20:28] <@tbsaunde> thx
- # [20:29] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com granted review for attachment 753379 on bug 869280.
- # [20:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=869280 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, Add temporary modal subtree to pivot API
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- # [21:16] <@davidb> tbsaunde: hmmm this looks possibly not ideal "0:05.60 INFO | setup.js | error loading or parsing 'http://mochi.test:8888/'"
- # [21:17] <@tbsaunde> davidb: that is yeah
- # [21:17] <@davidb> but hmmm i also get that when running a passing test file
- # [21:18] <@davidb> so maybe we can ignore it
- # [21:18] <@tbsaunde> wtf!
- # [21:18] * @davidb shrugs
- # [21:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: ok i get the same problem with other xhtml tests…
- # [21:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: do you use mach to run the test?
- # [21:21] <@davidb> singly?
- # [21:22] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no
- # [21:22] <@davidb> for example relations/test_bindings.xhtml barfs as well
- # [21:22] <@davidb> and events/test_mutation.xhtml
- # [21:23] <@tbsaunde> ok
- # [21:23] <@davidb> are these just silently broken?
- # [21:23] * @davidb checks tbpl
- # [21:24] <@tbsaunde> davidb: pretty sure the other tests work for me, but let me check
- # [21:24] <@davidb> ok
- # [21:25] <@davidb> xhtml tests seem to run ok on tbpl
- # [21:26] <@davidb> so… harumph
- # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, seems if I run the containing directory they run fine locally
- # [21:27] <@tbsaunde> but not the single file
- # [21:28] <@davidb> and only xhtml right?
- # [21:28] <@tbsaunde> yeah, html and xul I think generally work
- # [21:30] <@davidb> tbsaunde: when i run all of treeupdate/* your test shows 3 passes
- # [21:31] <@tbsaunde> davidb: ok, well the passes are useless so far
- # [21:31] <@davidb> so the behaviour is consistent with xhtml files not running singly locally
- # [21:31] <@tbsaunde> the test doesn't actually test anything
- # [21:31] <@davidb> but at least it doesn't show no tests run
- # [21:31] <@tbsaunde> true
- # [21:32] <@davidb> so i'd say carry on but don't test singly?
- # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> I guess I'll suck it up and run the whole dir and see if I can get ti to test that bug unless you're board and want to
- # [21:32] <@davidb> it isn't about bordom
- # [21:32] <@davidb> :)
- # [21:34] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what test is needed?
- # [21:36] <@tbsaunde> davidb: more or less port the fuzz test case to be a mochitest
- # [21:36] * @davidb looks
- # [21:36] <@tbsaunde> see the first attachment for what the test case is
- # [21:37] <@tbsaunde> davidb: yeah, but its not exactly completely reasonable to make other people write tests for me as much as I would like it
- # [21:37] <@davidb> asking is fine
- # [21:37] <@davidb> the test case appears straight forward
- # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> yeah, its not a terrible test case
- # [21:38] <@davidb> does it need the table and tr?
- # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> and lithium is about the best thing ever
- # [21:38] <@davidb> oh i guess yeah
- # [21:38] <@tbsaunde> yeah, pretty sure its all needed
- # [21:44] <@davidb> tbsaunde: i'm putting this into an hour slot in my tomorrow morning :)
- # [21:44] <@davidb> probably easy to right but take some time to a/b test
- # [21:44] <@tbsaunde> sgtm
- # [21:44] <@davidb> right/write
- # [21:44] <@davidb> cool
- # [21:45] <@tbsaunde> yeah
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The end :)