/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-06-04 / end
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- # Session Start: Tue Jun 04 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
- # [00:00] * Quits: habber (habber@moz-8654C0B7.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: habber)
- # [00:01] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 878409 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
- # [00:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878409 cri, --, ---, eitan, NEW, crash in nsAccessiblePivot::SearchForward @ nsIContent::HasAttr
- # [00:13] <@firebot> lsblakk@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-aurora for attachment 756427 on bug 877982.
- # [00:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877982 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, JAWS misses textarea in Firefox 23
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- # [01:23] <@firebot> roc@ocallahan.org cancelled needinfo?(roc@ocallahan.org ) on bug 670087.
- # [01:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670087 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, AccessibleObjectFromPoint returns incorrect accessible for popup menus
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- # [03:12] <xuku> Hey all, I'm new and I'm trying to get a big picture of the accessible part of Firefox. Currently reading through the IA2 pages at the Linux Foundation. Quick question:
- # [03:14] <xuku> If I understand correctly, the accessibility APIs like IA2 are not actually code in themselves, but actually are just interfaces shared between programs so that assistive technology will know how to use the accessible portions of firefox
- # [03:14] * Joins: maxli (maxli@C03F2759.C70D537E.2FA4EA88.IP)
- # [03:15] <xuku> which is why we have so many bugs about implementing IA2 stuff, because we actually implement the code for IA2 we just use functions defined in the standard
- # [03:15] <@tbsaunde> xuku: correct they just specify an API / ABI
- # [03:16] <xuku> tbsaunde: okay, does firefox have an accessible mode, or is the accessible code accessed by a third party assistive technology?
- # [03:18] <@tbsaunde> xuku: not sure I understand question
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- # [03:20] <xuku> tbsaunde: sorry, its probably because I am confused... how does the accessible code get used by the end user? Can "accessibility" be enabled within firefox?
- # [03:22] <xuku> basically, does it take special software for firefox to be used in accessible mode, or can it be toggled at any time? Because I am looking but I don't know how to test it
- # [03:22] <xuku> and thanks for having patience with a newbie! haha
- # [03:24] <@tbsaunde> xuku: external applications can call into firefox
- # [03:25] <@tbsaunde> xuku: or things like domi can use the accessibility api to display information about it or do other useful things
- # [03:25] <@tbsaunde> no worries
- # [03:25] <xuku> tbsaunde: okay, thanks! I wasn't sure how to phrase it haha. Trying to wrap my head around this before I tackle some IA2 bugs
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- # [03:37] <Jamie> surkov: hi! hope things are going well
- # [03:38] <@surkov> Jamie: hi, they are
- # [03:38] <Jamie> surkov: do you have a minute? Have an issue, but not sure whether it really counts as a bug :)
- # [03:38] <@surkov> Jamie: sure
- # [03:39] <Jamie> surkov: For the past few years, I've been aware of an issue in Firefox where there seems to be an end-of-line position, even for soft line breaks. For example, you hit this if you press the end key.
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- # [03:40] <Jamie> surkov: Unfortunately, IAccessibleText::caretOffset returns this position as the last character on the line + 1, which is equivalent to the start of the next line
- # [03:40] <@surkov> Jamie: yeah, I think we should insert \n for soft lines breaks
- # [03:40] <Jamie> surkov: the practical upshot is that if you press end and then read the current line, you get the next line. worse, if you then move up and down to previous and next lines, assuming the cursor stays on that osition, you'll continually get the wrong line
- # [03:40] <@surkov> Jamie: now we support -2 magic offset to get lines following the caret
- # [03:41] * Jamie nods
- # [03:41] <Jamie> I knew about -2, but the problem is that NVDA is somewhat more abstract than that. We fetch a line from what we call a TextInfo object, but we first retrieve a TextInfo for the caret; it's two separate steps
- # [03:41] <@surkov> I see
- # [03:42] <@surkov> I have plans to fix this issue
- # [03:42] <@surkov> but it should take time
- # [03:42] <Jamie> Okay. As I say, it's not entirely a Mozilla bug; arguably, NVDA could be less abstract and use -2 always
- # [03:42] <Jamie> but caretOffset returning the start of the next line does seem weird
- # [03:42] <@surkov> offset is shared between end of line and beginning of next line
- # [03:42] <Jamie> surkov: okay. is there a bug filed for this already that i should cc myself on?
- # [03:43] <@surkov> that's bad I agree
- # [03:43] <@surkov> good question :)
- # [03:43] <Jamie> I'm not entirely sure why Mozilla text editor (I realise this is broader than a11y) exposes that line end position anyway
- # [03:47] <@surkov> Jamie: I can't find a bug
- # [03:48] <Jamie> surkov: do you want me to file one?
- # [03:48] <@surkov> Mozilla text editor is content oriented so text doesn't have \n character
- # [03:48] <@surkov> Jamie: it'd be good
- # [03:49] <Jamie> surkov: right, but I wonder why it exposes the line end as a cursorable position at all
- # [03:49] <Jamie> surkov: i.e. why make it stop on that position when moving the caret
- # [03:50] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from faulkner.steve@gm ail.com on bug 704465.
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- # [03:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=704465 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, any element pointed @headers attribute should be exposed as table header
- # [03:50] <@surkov> ah
- # [03:50] <Jamie> exposing \n for soft line breaks could be problematic because one won't be able to tell the difference between ahrd and soft line breaks. hmmm.
- # [03:50] <@surkov> Jamie: why do you need to have a difference?
- # [03:51] <@surkov> have -> know
- # [03:51] <Jamie> surkov: it's semantically important to know when something just wrapped because it ran out of screen space or when it went to a new line because the author intended it to
- # [03:52] <Jamie> surkov: for example, the user cares about line breaks when reading a poem (<br> tags), but they might not when reading a big block fo normal text
- # [03:53] <Jamie> surkov: the real question is why that line end character is exposed. if it *is* imoprtant to the mozilla editor (and I'll note that other editors don't do this), we might need to come up with a way to use magic -2 in NVDA somehow
- # [03:53] <@surkov> Jamie: but rejecting a caret placed after soft line break doesn't solve a problem of text interface in atk case
- # [03:53] <@surkov> since they get text from line start to line start
- # [03:53] <@surkov> and from line end to line end
- # [03:54] <Jamie> surkov: I'm not sure I follow. what would happen for ATK?
- # [03:54] <@surkov> (just thinking) :)
- # [03:54] <@surkov> so in that case we just don't have a line end offset?
- # [03:54] <@surkov> correct?
- # [03:55] <Jamie> I think the line end offset is always exclusive anyway
- # [03:55] <@surkov> or what happens in case of soft breaks
- # [03:55] <Jamie> so line end is equivalent to start of next, *but* it's exclusive
- # [03:55] <@surkov> if you have "hello\n" then line end offset is before \n
- # [03:55] <@surkov> next line start is after \n
- # [03:56] <Jamie> oh.
- # [03:56] <Jamie> so ATK doesn't ever include the \n in the line
- # [03:56] <Jamie> that's kind of annoying. :)
- # [03:56] <Jamie> yeah, that does leave you with a very annoying problem
- # [03:56] <@surkov> I believe the same we do for IA2
- # [03:56] <Jamie> in IA2, line end is exclusive, so it can safely include the \n
- # [03:57] <Jamie> hello\n, offsets should be (0, 5)
- # [03:57] <Jamie> err, (0, 6)
- # [03:57] <@surkov> right
- # [03:57] <@surkov> so it's inclusive
- # [03:57] <Jamie> no
- # [03:57] <Jamie> 6 is the start of the next line
- # [03:57] <Jamie> 5 is \n
- # [03:57] <@surkov> ok, agree
- # [03:58] <Jamie> ug, I have to run. sorry; really do want to finish this conversation :)
- # [03:58] <Jamie> I'll be back a bit later if you're still around
- # [03:58] <@surkov> sure
- # [03:58] <@surkov> see ya
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- # [04:12] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 873447 from nobody@mozilla.org to marcosadp@gmail.com.
- # [04:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873447 nor, --, ---, marcosadp, NEW, expose IAccessible2 checkable state
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- # [04:23] <@firebot> marcosadp@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 757761 on bug 873447.
- # [04:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873447 nor, --, ---, marcosadp, NEW, expose IAccessible2 checkable state
- # [04:24] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 757761 on bug 873447.
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- # [05:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 756395 on bug 877974.
- # [05:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 757776 on bug 877974.
- # [05:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877974 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, reorg getTextAtOffset for line boundary
- # [06:23] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 879130 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
- # [06:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=879130 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, getTextBeforeOffset line end boundary is on new rails
- # [06:24] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 757788 on bug 879130.
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- # [06:29] <Jamie> surkov: back now. :) So, I gather there is a difference in how IA2 and ATK handle this?
- # [06:30] <@surkov> Jamie: atk has two options: get from line end to line end and from line start to line start
- # [06:30] <Jamie> surkov: For IA2, making it so that you can't move the caret to that spot would solve everything because the end of one line (exclusive) is always the start of the next (inclusive)because the caret
- # [06:31] <@surkov> that'd be unnatural for me as for user I think
- # [06:31] <@surkov> Jamie: when I press end key then were it brings me?
- # [06:32] <Jamie> hmm. guess so
- # [06:33] <Jamie> surkov: okay. guess I'll need to discuss with Mick to see if we can find a bettter solution in NVDA
- # [06:33] <Jamie> none of the APIs seem to handle this case correctly
- # [06:34] <@surkov> seems so
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- # [07:47] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 704465.
- # [07:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=704465 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, any element pointed @headers attribute should be exposed as table header
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- # [08:30] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 757822 on bug 879130.
- # [08:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=879130 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, getTextBeforeOffset line end boundary is on new rails
- # [08:50] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 878590.
- # [08:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878590 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, HTML5 datalist is not conveyed by haspopup property
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- # [09:59] <@marcoz> Good morning all!
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- # [10:40] <SteveF> marcoz: morning
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- # [12:36] <@firebot> ttaubert@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 794041 from ttaubert@mozilla.com to nobody@mozilla.org.
- # [12:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794041 nor, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, nsAccDocManager shouldn't create a RootAccessible for the hiddenWindow
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- # [13:42] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 879206 filed by scoobidiver@netcourrier.com.
- # [13:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=879206 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in MustBeAccessible
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- # [15:21] <@marcoz> maxli: Hi and good morning!
- # [15:21] <@marcoz> maxli: I took the liberty of taking bug 856325 as a ride-along when I checked in two a11y checkin-needed bugs earlier.
- # [15:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856325 maj, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] We do not support double-tap and hold in web content to bring up an item's context menu
- # [15:22] <maxli> marcoz: Hi! Thanks!
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- # [15:29] <@davidb> heyo!
- # [15:36] <@firebot> ttaubert@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 794041 from nobody@mozilla.org to ttaubert@mozilla.com.
- # [15:36] <@firebot> ttaubert@mozilla.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 755046 on bug 794041.
- # [15:36] <@firebot> ttaubert@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 757918 on bug 794041.
- # [15:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794041 nor, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, nsAccDocManager shouldn't create a RootAccessible for the hiddenWindow
- # [15:36] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com cancelled review?(marco.zehe@googlema il.com) for attachment 757584 on bug 577727.
- # [15:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577727 nor, --, ---, dbolter, NEW, Make pinned tabs distinguishable from other tabs for accessibility
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- # [15:49] <@marcoz> Heyo davidb!
- # [15:50] <@davidb> hey hey
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- # [16:01] <@davidb> marcoz: ready when you are
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- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 878567 from nobody@mozilla.org to taken.spc@gmail.com.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 878567 from --- to FIXED.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 878567 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 878567 from --- to mozilla24.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878567 nor, --, mozilla24, taken.spc, RESO FIXED, Remove unused if block from implicit landmark role handling
- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 873447 from --- to FIXED.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 873447 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 873447 from --- to mozilla24.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873447 nor, --, mozilla24, marcosadp, RESO FIXED, expose IAccessible2 checkable state
- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 856325 from --- to FIXED.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 856325 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 856325 from --- to mozilla24.
- # [16:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856325 maj, --, mozilla24, maxli, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] We do not support double-tap and hold in web content to bring up an item's context menu
- # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 878590 from --- to FIXED.
- # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 878590 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 878590 from --- to mozilla24.
- # [16:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878590 nor, --, mozilla24, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, HTML5 datalist is not conveyed by haspopup property
- # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 704465 from --- to FIXED.
- # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 704465 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 704465 from --- to mozilla24.
- # [16:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=704465 nor, --, mozilla24, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, any element pointed @headers attribute should be exposed as table header
- # [16:20] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 878409 from --- to FIXED.
- # [16:20] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 878409 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [16:20] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 878409 from --- to mozilla24.
- # [16:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878409 cri, --, mozilla24, eitan, RESO FIXED, crash in nsAccessiblePivot::SearchForward @ nsIContent::HasAttr
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- # [16:52] <@marcoz> Wow, that was a quick turn-around for patches to go into m-c. I only landed those five or six hours ago! Yay! ;)
- # [16:52] <@marcoz> OMG davidb, we talked for about 45 minutes! Time flies when you're having a good conversation! :)
- # [16:54] <@davidb> :)
- # [17:09] * victorporof_ is now known as victorporof
- # [17:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 757918 on bug 794041.
- # [17:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794041 nor, --, ---, ttaubert, ASSI, nsAccDocManager shouldn't create a RootAccessible for the hiddenWindow
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- # [19:18] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 758020 on bug 577727.
- # [19:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577727 nor, --, ---, dbolter, NEW, Make pinned tabs distinguishable from other tabs for accessibility
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- # [20:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
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- # [20:33] <@davidb> eeejay: dev meeting running late
- # [20:34] <@eeejay> davidb, no worries
- # [20:45] <@davidb> eeejay: ok
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- # [20:45] <@davidb> eeejay: vidyo?
- # [20:46] <@eeejay> hm
- # [20:46] <@davidb> Skype?
- # [20:46] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah.
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- # [20:54] <@davidb> eeejay: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/mozilla.governance
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- # [21:17] <SteveF> eeejay: any movement on keyboard access to landmarks?
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- # [21:30] <@davidb> maxli: how's now?
- # [21:30] <maxli> davidb: sure
- # [21:31] <@eeejay> SteveF, i don't think so
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- # [21:32] <askalski> hi everyone!
- # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> hi
- # [21:36] <askalski> tbsaunde, how are you?
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- # Session Close: Wed Jun 05 00:00:00 2013
The end :)