/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-06-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jun 04 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:00] * Quits: habber (habber@moz-8654C0B7.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: habber)
  4. # [00:01] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 878409 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  5. # [00:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878409 cri, --, ---, eitan, NEW, crash in nsAccessiblePivot::SearchForward @ nsIContent::HasAttr
  6. # [00:13] <@firebot> lsblakk@mozilla.com granted approval-mozilla-aurora for attachment 756427 on bug 877982.
  7. # [00:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877982 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, JAWS misses textarea in Firefox 23
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  20. # [01:23] <@firebot> roc@ocallahan.org cancelled needinfo?(roc@ocallahan.org ) on bug 670087.
  21. # [01:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=670087 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, AccessibleObjectFromPoint returns incorrect accessible for popup menus
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  30. # [03:12] <xuku> Hey all, I'm new and I'm trying to get a big picture of the accessible part of Firefox. Currently reading through the IA2 pages at the Linux Foundation. Quick question:
  31. # [03:14] <xuku> If I understand correctly, the accessibility APIs like IA2 are not actually code in themselves, but actually are just interfaces shared between programs so that assistive technology will know how to use the accessible portions of firefox
  32. # [03:14] * Joins: maxli (maxli@C03F2759.C70D537E.2FA4EA88.IP)
  33. # [03:15] <xuku> which is why we have so many bugs about implementing IA2 stuff, because we actually implement the code for IA2 we just use functions defined in the standard
  34. # [03:15] <@tbsaunde> xuku: correct they just specify an API / ABI
  35. # [03:16] <xuku> tbsaunde: okay, does firefox have an accessible mode, or is the accessible code accessed by a third party assistive technology?
  36. # [03:18] <@tbsaunde> xuku: not sure I understand question
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  38. # [03:20] <xuku> tbsaunde: sorry, its probably because I am confused... how does the accessible code get used by the end user? Can "accessibility" be enabled within firefox?
  39. # [03:22] <xuku> basically, does it take special software for firefox to be used in accessible mode, or can it be toggled at any time? Because I am looking but I don't know how to test it
  40. # [03:22] <xuku> and thanks for having patience with a newbie! haha
  41. # [03:24] <@tbsaunde> xuku: external applications can call into firefox
  42. # [03:25] <@tbsaunde> xuku: or things like domi can use the accessibility api to display information about it or do other useful things
  43. # [03:25] <@tbsaunde> no worries
  44. # [03:25] <xuku> tbsaunde: okay, thanks! I wasn't sure how to phrase it haha. Trying to wrap my head around this before I tackle some IA2 bugs
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  47. # [03:37] <Jamie> surkov: hi! hope things are going well
  48. # [03:38] <@surkov> Jamie: hi, they are
  49. # [03:38] <Jamie> surkov: do you have a minute? Have an issue, but not sure whether it really counts as a bug :)
  50. # [03:38] <@surkov> Jamie: sure
  51. # [03:39] <Jamie> surkov: For the past few years, I've been aware of an issue in Firefox where there seems to be an end-of-line position, even for soft line breaks. For example, you hit this if you press the end key.
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  53. # [03:40] <Jamie> surkov: Unfortunately, IAccessibleText::caretOffset returns this position as the last character on the line + 1, which is equivalent to the start of the next line
  54. # [03:40] <@surkov> Jamie: yeah, I think we should insert \n for soft lines breaks
  55. # [03:40] <Jamie> surkov: the practical upshot is that if you press end and then read the current line, you get the next line. worse, if you then move up and down to previous and next lines, assuming the cursor stays on that osition, you'll continually get the wrong line
  56. # [03:40] <@surkov> Jamie: now we support -2 magic offset to get lines following the caret
  57. # [03:41] * Jamie nods
  58. # [03:41] <Jamie> I knew about -2, but the problem is that NVDA is somewhat more abstract than that. We fetch a line from what we call a TextInfo object, but we first retrieve a TextInfo for the caret; it's two separate steps
  59. # [03:41] <@surkov> I see
  60. # [03:42] <@surkov> I have plans to fix this issue
  61. # [03:42] <@surkov> but it should take time
  62. # [03:42] <Jamie> Okay. As I say, it's not entirely a Mozilla bug; arguably, NVDA could be less abstract and use -2 always
  63. # [03:42] <Jamie> but caretOffset returning the start of the next line does seem weird
  64. # [03:42] <@surkov> offset is shared between end of line and beginning of next line
  65. # [03:42] <Jamie> surkov: okay. is there a bug filed for this already that i should cc myself on?
  66. # [03:43] <@surkov> that's bad I agree
  67. # [03:43] <@surkov> good question :)
  68. # [03:43] <Jamie> I'm not entirely sure why Mozilla text editor (I realise this is broader than a11y) exposes that line end position anyway
  69. # [03:47] <@surkov> Jamie: I can't find a bug
  70. # [03:48] <Jamie> surkov: do you want me to file one?
  71. # [03:48] <@surkov> Mozilla text editor is content oriented so text doesn't have \n character
  72. # [03:48] <@surkov> Jamie: it'd be good
  73. # [03:49] <Jamie> surkov: right, but I wonder why it exposes the line end as a cursorable position at all
  74. # [03:49] <Jamie> surkov: i.e. why make it stop on that position when moving the caret
  75. # [03:50] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested needinfo from faulkner.steve@gm ail.com on bug 704465.
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  77. # [03:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=704465 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, any element pointed @headers attribute should be exposed as table header
  78. # [03:50] <@surkov> ah
  79. # [03:50] <Jamie> exposing \n for soft line breaks could be problematic because one won't be able to tell the difference between ahrd and soft line breaks. hmmm.
  80. # [03:50] <@surkov> Jamie: why do you need to have a difference?
  81. # [03:51] <@surkov> have -> know
  82. # [03:51] <Jamie> surkov: it's semantically important to know when something just wrapped because it ran out of screen space or when it went to a new line because the author intended it to
  83. # [03:52] <Jamie> surkov: for example, the user cares about line breaks when reading a poem (<br> tags), but they might not when reading a big block fo normal text
  84. # [03:53] <Jamie> surkov: the real question is why that line end character is exposed. if it *is* imoprtant to the mozilla editor (and I'll note that other editors don't do this), we might need to come up with a way to use magic -2 in NVDA somehow
  85. # [03:53] <@surkov> Jamie: but rejecting a caret placed after soft line break doesn't solve a problem of text interface in atk case
  86. # [03:53] <@surkov> since they get text from line start to line start
  87. # [03:53] <@surkov> and from line end to line end
  88. # [03:54] <Jamie> surkov: I'm not sure I follow. what would happen for ATK?
  89. # [03:54] <@surkov> (just thinking) :)
  90. # [03:54] <@surkov> so in that case we just don't have a line end offset?
  91. # [03:54] <@surkov> correct?
  92. # [03:55] <Jamie> I think the line end offset is always exclusive anyway
  93. # [03:55] <@surkov> or what happens in case of soft breaks
  94. # [03:55] <Jamie> so line end is equivalent to start of next, *but* it's exclusive
  95. # [03:55] <@surkov> if you have "hello\n" then line end offset is before \n
  96. # [03:55] <@surkov> next line start is after \n
  97. # [03:56] <Jamie> oh.
  98. # [03:56] <Jamie> so ATK doesn't ever include the \n in the line
  99. # [03:56] <Jamie> that's kind of annoying. :)
  100. # [03:56] <Jamie> yeah, that does leave you with a very annoying problem
  101. # [03:56] <@surkov> I believe the same we do for IA2
  102. # [03:56] <Jamie> in IA2, line end is exclusive, so it can safely include the \n
  103. # [03:57] <Jamie> hello\n, offsets should be (0, 5)
  104. # [03:57] <Jamie> err, (0, 6)
  105. # [03:57] <@surkov> right
  106. # [03:57] <@surkov> so it's inclusive
  107. # [03:57] <Jamie> no
  108. # [03:57] <Jamie> 6 is the start of the next line
  109. # [03:57] <Jamie> 5 is \n
  110. # [03:57] <@surkov> ok, agree
  111. # [03:58] <Jamie> ug, I have to run. sorry; really do want to finish this conversation :)
  112. # [03:58] <Jamie> I'll be back a bit later if you're still around
  113. # [03:58] <@surkov> sure
  114. # [03:58] <@surkov> see ya
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  117. # [04:12] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 873447 from nobody@mozilla.org to marcosadp@gmail.com.
  118. # [04:12] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873447 nor, --, ---, marcosadp, NEW, expose IAccessible2 checkable state
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  121. # [04:23] <@firebot> marcosadp@gmail.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 757761 on bug 873447.
  122. # [04:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873447 nor, --, ---, marcosadp, NEW, expose IAccessible2 checkable state
  123. # [04:24] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 757761 on bug 873447.
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  128. # [05:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 756395 on bug 877974.
  129. # [05:19] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 757776 on bug 877974.
  130. # [05:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877974 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, reorg getTextAtOffset for line boundary
  131. # [06:23] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 879130 filed by surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
  132. # [06:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=879130 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, getTextBeforeOffset line end boundary is on new rails
  133. # [06:24] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com cancelled review?(trev.saunders@gmail .com) for attachment 757788 on bug 879130.
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  135. # [06:29] <Jamie> surkov: back now. :) So, I gather there is a difference in how IA2 and ATK handle this?
  136. # [06:30] <@surkov> Jamie: atk has two options: get from line end to line end and from line start to line start
  137. # [06:30] <Jamie> surkov: For IA2, making it so that you can't move the caret to that spot would solve everything because the end of one line (exclusive) is always the start of the next (inclusive)because the caret
  138. # [06:31] <@surkov> that'd be unnatural for me as for user I think
  139. # [06:31] <@surkov> Jamie: when I press end key then were it brings me?
  140. # [06:32] <Jamie> hmm. guess so
  141. # [06:33] <Jamie> surkov: okay. guess I'll need to discuss with Mick to see if we can find a bettter solution in NVDA
  142. # [06:33] <Jamie> none of the APIs seem to handle this case correctly
  143. # [06:34] <@surkov> seems so
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  147. # [07:47] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 704465.
  148. # [07:47] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=704465 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, any element pointed @headers attribute should be exposed as table header
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  154. # [08:30] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com requested review from trev.saunders@gmail .com for attachment 757822 on bug 879130.
  155. # [08:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=879130 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, getTextBeforeOffset line end boundary is on new rails
  156. # [08:50] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 878590.
  157. # [08:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878590 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, ASSI, HTML5 datalist is not conveyed by haspopup property
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  165. # [09:59] <@marcoz> Good morning all!
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  169. # [10:40] <SteveF> marcoz: morning
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  172. # [12:36] <@firebot> ttaubert@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 794041 from ttaubert@mozilla.com to nobody@mozilla.org.
  173. # [12:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794041 nor, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, nsAccDocManager shouldn't create a RootAccessible for the hiddenWindow
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  177. # [13:42] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 879206 filed by scoobidiver@netcourrier.com.
  178. # [13:43] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=879206 cri, --, ---, nobody, NEW, crash in MustBeAccessible
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  192. # [15:21] <@marcoz> maxli: Hi and good morning!
  193. # [15:21] <@marcoz> maxli: I took the liberty of taking bug 856325 as a ride-along when I checked in two a11y checkin-needed bugs earlier.
  194. # [15:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856325 maj, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] We do not support double-tap and hold in web content to bring up an item's context menu
  195. # [15:22] <maxli> marcoz: Hi! Thanks!
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  199. # [15:29] <@davidb> heyo!
  200. # [15:36] <@firebot> ttaubert@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 794041 from nobody@mozilla.org to ttaubert@mozilla.com.
  201. # [15:36] <@firebot> ttaubert@mozilla.com cancelled review?(surkov.alexander@gm ail.com) for attachment 755046 on bug 794041.
  202. # [15:36] <@firebot> ttaubert@mozilla.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 757918 on bug 794041.
  203. # [15:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794041 nor, --, ---, nobody, ASSI, nsAccDocManager shouldn't create a RootAccessible for the hiddenWindow
  204. # [15:36] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com cancelled review?(marco.zehe@googlema il.com) for attachment 757584 on bug 577727.
  205. # [15:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577727 nor, --, ---, dbolter, NEW, Make pinned tabs distinguishable from other tabs for accessibility
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  210. # [15:49] <@marcoz> Heyo davidb!
  211. # [15:50] <@davidb> hey hey
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  215. # [16:01] <@davidb> marcoz: ready when you are
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  217. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Assignee on bug 878567 from nobody@mozilla.org to taken.spc@gmail.com.
  218. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 878567 from --- to FIXED.
  219. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 878567 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  220. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 878567 from --- to mozilla24.
  221. # [16:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878567 nor, --, mozilla24, taken.spc, RESO FIXED, Remove unused if block from implicit landmark role handling
  222. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 873447 from --- to FIXED.
  223. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 873447 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  224. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 873447 from --- to mozilla24.
  225. # [16:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873447 nor, --, mozilla24, marcosadp, RESO FIXED, expose IAccessible2 checkable state
  226. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 856325 from --- to FIXED.
  227. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 856325 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  228. # [16:16] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 856325 from --- to mozilla24.
  229. # [16:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856325 maj, --, mozilla24, maxli, RESO FIXED, [AccessFu] We do not support double-tap and hold in web content to bring up an item's context menu
  230. # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 878590 from --- to FIXED.
  231. # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 878590 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  232. # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 878590 from --- to mozilla24.
  233. # [16:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878590 nor, --, mozilla24, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, HTML5 datalist is not conveyed by haspopup property
  234. # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 704465 from --- to FIXED.
  235. # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 704465 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
  236. # [16:17] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 704465 from --- to mozilla24.
  237. # [16:17] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=704465 nor, --, mozilla24, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, any element pointed @headers attribute should be exposed as table header
  238. # [16:20] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 878409 from --- to FIXED.
  239. # [16:20] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 878409 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  240. # [16:20] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 878409 from --- to mozilla24.
  241. # [16:20] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878409 cri, --, mozilla24, eitan, RESO FIXED, crash in nsAccessiblePivot::SearchForward @ nsIContent::HasAttr
  242. # [16:43] * Joins: Jesse (jruderman@moz-537BCF9.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  243. # [16:52] <@marcoz> Wow, that was a quick turn-around for patches to go into m-c. I only landed those five or six hours ago! Yay! ;)
  244. # [16:52] <@marcoz> OMG davidb, we talked for about 45 minutes! Time flies when you're having a good conversation! :)
  245. # [16:54] <@davidb> :)
  246. # [17:09] * victorporof_ is now known as victorporof
  247. # [17:29] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 757918 on bug 794041.
  248. # [17:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=794041 nor, --, ---, ttaubert, ASSI, nsAccDocManager shouldn't create a RootAccessible for the hiddenWindow
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  269. # [19:18] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 758020 on bug 577727.
  270. # [19:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577727 nor, --, ---, dbolter, NEW, Make pinned tabs distinguishable from other tabs for accessibility
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  295. # [20:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +qo davidb davidb
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  297. # [20:33] <@davidb> eeejay: dev meeting running late
  298. # [20:34] <@eeejay> davidb, no worries
  299. # [20:45] <@davidb> eeejay: ok
  300. # [20:45] * Joins: lizzard (ehenry@moz-BE33DA21.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  301. # [20:45] <@davidb> eeejay: vidyo?
  302. # [20:46] <@eeejay> hm
  303. # [20:46] <@davidb> Skype?
  304. # [20:46] <@eeejay> davidb, yeah.
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  307. # [20:54] <@davidb> eeejay: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/mozilla.governance
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  311. # [21:17] <SteveF> eeejay: any movement on keyboard access to landmarks?
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  314. # [21:30] <@davidb> maxli: how's now?
  315. # [21:30] <maxli> davidb: sure
  316. # [21:31] <@eeejay> SteveF, i don't think so
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  318. # [21:32] <askalski> hi everyone!
  319. # [21:32] <@tbsaunde> hi
  320. # [21:36] <askalski> tbsaunde, how are you?
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  343. # Session Close: Wed Jun 05 00:00:00 2013

The end :)