/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-06-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jun 27 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  11. # [01:57] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 887577 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  12. # [01:59] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 887577 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  13. # [01:59] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from yura.zenevich@gmail .com for attachment 768075 on bug 887577.
  14. # [02:09] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca changed the Resolution on bug 881845 from --- to DUPLICATE.
  15. # [02:09] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca changed the Status on bug 881845 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  16. # [02:09] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881845 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, [AccessFu] Handle a case when accessible does not have attributes in Utils.getAttributes.
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  18. # [02:11] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 887582 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  19. # [02:11] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887582 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] have logException support XPC errors
  20. # [02:12] <@eeejay> maxli, thanks :)
  21. # [02:13] <maxli> np
  22. # [02:15] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 887582 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  23. # [02:16] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from yura.zenevich@gmail .com for attachment 768083 on bug 887582.
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  25. # [02:21] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 887586 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  26. # [02:21] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 887586 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  27. # [02:25] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 768086 on bug 887586.
  28. # [02:26] <@eeejay> maxli, it would be great if you could start reviewing soon too. i have a whole queue here of things that yzen touched recently, so i am sending them his way
  29. # [02:29] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 887588 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  30. # [02:29] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887588 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Gaia apps appear twice when navigating.
  31. # [02:29] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 887588 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  32. # [02:31] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from yura.zenevich@gmail .com for attachment 768089 on bug 887588.
  33. # [02:33] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 887589 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  34. # [02:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887589 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Don't bellyache when pivot position is null
  35. # [02:33] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 887589 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  36. # [02:34] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from maxli@maxli.ca for attachment 768090 on bug 887589.
  37. # [02:35] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 887592 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  38. # [02:35] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887592 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Non-vc change events to get through to EventManager in desktop
  39. # [02:36] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from dbolter@mozilla.com for attachment 768092 on bug 887592.
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  41. # [02:39] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 887594 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  42. # [02:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887594 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Implement Presenter.invokeAction in SpeechPresenter
  43. # [02:39] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 887594 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
  44. # [02:39] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 768093 on bug 887594.
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  46. # [02:41] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 887595 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
  47. # [02:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887595 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Use special rule for explore by touch
  48. # [02:41] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org changed the Assignee on bug 887595 from nobody@mozilla.org to eitan@monotonous.org.
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  51. # [02:46] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org requested review from marco.zehe@googlema il.com for attachment 768098 on bug 887595.
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  56. # [03:02] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca granted review for attachment 768090 on bug 887589.
  57. # [03:02] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887589 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Don't bellyache when pivot position is null
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  59. # [04:05] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 768098 on bug 887595.
  60. # [04:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887595 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Use special rule for explore by touch
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  67. # [05:16] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com granted review for attachment 768075 on bug 887577.
  68. # [05:16] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887577 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Don't throw exception when Utils.getAttributes doesn't get a supported accessible
  69. # [05:21] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  70. # [05:42] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com granted review for attachment 768083 on bug 887582.
  71. # [05:42] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887582 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] have logException support XPC errors
  72. # [05:59] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com granted review for attachment 768089 on bug 887588.
  73. # [06:00] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887588 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Gaia apps appear twice when navigating.
  74. # [06:01] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 752609 from nobody@mozilla.org to yura.zenevich@gmail.com.
  75. # [06:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752609 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Shorten a11y event and role constant prefixes
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  87. # [10:03] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted review for attachment 768093 on bug 887594.
  88. # [10:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887594 nor, --, ---, eitan, NEW, [AccessFu] Implement Presenter.invokeAction in SpeechPresenter
  89. # [10:07] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 887217 from --- to INVALID.
  90. # [10:07] <@firebot> emorley@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 887217 from UNCONFIRMED to RESOLVED.
  91. # [10:07] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887217 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO INVALID, TEST-UNEXPECTED-FAIL | chrome://mochitests/content/a11y/accessible/attributes/test_text.html | Unexp
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  108. # [13:49] <rednaks> Hello,
  109. # [13:50] <rednaks> in bug 873450 I see that IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_* already exists in other-licenses/ia2/AccessibleRelation.idl, what are he differences between the two files ?
  110. # [13:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=873450 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Implement IA2 containing relations
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  119. # [14:15] <@marcoz> Morning surkov! :)
  120. # [14:16] <@surkov> hey, marcoz !
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  128. # [15:14] <@davidb> heyo
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  133. # [15:29] * davidb changes topic to 'build the web for everyone | goals: http://is.gd/Z9USZ5'
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  135. # [15:32] <@marcoz> Heyo davidb!
  136. # [15:33] <@davidb> hi!
  137. # [15:33] <@davidb> marcoz: here's what we have so far https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/2013-Q3-Goals#Accessibility
  138. # [15:33] * @marcoz is giving up trying to set up the Firefox OS build environment on his Mac for now. This stuff currently seems utterly broken.
  139. # [15:33] <@davidb> sad
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  141. # [15:39] <@davidb> marcoz: there is some building thread going on in dev-gaia
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  146. # [15:47] <@marcoz> davidb: Yeah I'd been trying to follow that, but I found it too hard for someone who doesn't work with this every day.
  147. # [15:47] <@davidb> yeah
  148. # [15:47] <@davidb> you are a good test of the remote experience
  149. # [15:52] <@marcoz> davidb: Right now it's telling me that I don't have the OSX10.6 SDK installed. Guess what, it just appears to be too stupid to find it. The SDK is in my home folder, and a sym link added to the location in the Xcode.app folder hierarchy where requested. But it insists it can't find it.
  150. # [15:53] <@marcoz> davidb: So whatever's on MDN now, it doesn't work with whatever bootstrap script is being used. Or vice versa.
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  153. # [15:58] <@marcoz> davidb: Lookd at the thread again, and this is solely for the GAIA component, not for the whole B2G.
  154. # [16:01] * @marcoz goes back to Firefox for Android. That at least works.
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  159. # [16:03] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 887794 filed by dbolter@mozilla.com.
  160. # [16:03] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887794 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, NEW, [Meta] Q3 vendor/community commitments
  161. # [16:05] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 855324 from --- to INCOMPLETE.
  162. # [16:05] <@firebot> dbolter@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 855324 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  163. # [16:05] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=855324 nor, --, ---, surkov.alexander, RESO INCOMPLETE, [Meta] Q2 vendor/community commitments
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  168. # [16:29] <@tbsaunde> b2g needs to be hit with a sledge hammer a bit to build? I'm *shocked* I tell you
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  182. # [17:23] <@marcoz> OK, made progress. Didn't give up after all. :)
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  185. # [17:31] <@davidb> good good
  186. # [17:33] <@marcoz> It's now downloading the universe. :)
  187. # [17:34] <@davidb> sounds right
  188. # [17:46] <@hub> tbsaunde: it is easy to build on a real operating system ;-)
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  190. # [17:50] <SteveF> hi all a quick question: what does aria-hidden map to in acc APIs?
  191. # [17:51] <SteveF> for example one of the requirements in the HTMl5 spec is that the head element must have the aria-hidden state set to "true" i
  192. # [17:52] <SteveF> is this a sensisble or practical user agent requirement?
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  194. # [17:53] <SteveF> davidb: am looking at you o_0
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  196. # [17:56] <@marcoz> SteveF: AFAIK, we don't even create an accessible for the head element. We turn the title element into the document accessible name, but don't do anything else a11y-related to that element.
  197. # [17:57] <@marcoz> SteveF: aria-hidden, in our case, is exposed as an object attribute on the accessible and its sub tree where it is set to true. So screen readers can choose to use or ignore it.
  198. # [17:57] <@marcoz> SteveF: Other browsers prune the tree. We do not do that.
  199. # [17:57] <SteveF> marcoz: so it is an un-nencessary requirement in firefox's case?
  200. # [17:57] <@tbsaunde> hub: the first time I tried when b2g was really new it wasn't, and getting all the deps was non trivial because of all the i686 host crap, but it wasn't terrible
  201. # [17:57] <SteveF> or not applicable
  202. # [17:58] <@davidb> SteveF: you sort of lost me at: head element must have the aria-hidden state set to "true"
  203. # [17:58] <@tbsaunde> SteveF: can anything ever be rendered for it? if not it seems pretty extranious
  204. # [17:58] * khuey|caltrain is now known as khuey|away
  205. # [17:59] <@marcoz> SteveF: Not applicable in the Firefox case, as there currently is nothing but the title that is useful to render.
  206. # [17:59] <SteveF> davidb: we are talking on the taskforce about interop for the requirments in http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#sec-implicit-aria-semantics
  207. # [17:59] <SteveF> and whether they are implemented or not
  208. # [17:59] <@davidb> SteveF: i'd want to know what the person who wrote that is trying to say.
  209. # [18:00] <SteveF> hixie wrote it
  210. # [18:00] <@davidb> ok maybe he'll tell us
  211. # [18:01] <SteveF> you can ask, I asked a question on whatwg yesterday and got nicely derided for asking :-)
  212. # [18:02] <SteveF> I think the stuff needs some rewriting to reflect reality
  213. # [18:02] <@davidb> i need to refresh myself on what implicit semantics actually mean implementation-wise.
  214. # [18:02] <SteveF> which I will take on after further consultation with implementers like you
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  216. # [18:03] <@davidb> BTW there is talk of having computedRole (like computedStyle)
  217. # [18:04] <@tbsaunde> davidb: I'd assume that is trying to say nothing under <head> is accessible
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  225. # [18:18] <@tbsaunde> davidb: how would that work with a11y not being on?
  226. # [18:20] <@davidb> tbsaunde: it would give uncomputed answer i guess
  227. # [18:21] <@davidb> ask james craig :)
  228. # [18:21] <@davidb> tbsaunde: btw i'm in the big room listening about ff os
  229. # [18:23] <@tbsaunde> ok?
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  231. # [18:27] * khuey|away is now known as khuey|caltrain
  232. # [18:27] * khuey|caltrain is now known as khuey
  233. # [18:30] <@firebot> gavin.sharp@gmail.com granted review for attachment 766475 on bug 877453.
  234. # [18:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877453 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, Expose longdesc in image context menus
  235. # [18:34] * clown_mtg is now known as clown
  236. # [18:35] <Hixie> davidb: ask away, i'm happy to answer any of your questions
  237. # [18:35] <Hixie> SteveF: you got derided because you're an editor asking a question whose answer is written in plain text in the spec you edit, not just because you asked a question.
  238. # [18:37] <@davidb> Hixie: thanks, attending a session ATM - will read the spec over
  239. # [18:37] <Hixie> roger
  240. # [18:37] <Hixie> feel free to ping me whenever
  241. # [18:37] <@davidb> awesome
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  251. # [19:06] <SteveF> Hixie: i don't claim to know off by heart every bit of the spec but as usual you take the opportunity to flame
  252. # [19:07] <Hixie> it's literally your job to know the spec
  253. # [19:07] <Hixie> that's what being editor is
  254. # [19:07] <SteveF> Hixie: tahnsk but i don't need you to tell me my job
  255. # [19:08] <SteveF> Hixie: I am one of a number of editors and make no claim to understand everything in the spec.
  256. # [19:09] <SteveF> Hixie: you can make up the rules you want for what is in your control, but don't presume that what you think applies to me
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  258. # [19:14] <SteveF> Hixie: so when I don't know something I will continue to ask, but obviously not in the whatwg IRC as its not a helpful atmosphere
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  261. # [19:25] <@davidb> SteveF: After a quick skim/search I couldn't find 'head element must have the aria-hidden'… in the spec
  262. # [19:26] <SteveF> davidb: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#sec-strong-native-semantics
  263. # [19:26] <@davidb> ah
  264. # [19:29] <@davidb> I think I'm ok with "implies the ARIA semantics" but unsure about "default implicit ARIA semantics" unless it means the same thing
  265. # [19:30] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  266. # [19:30] <@davidb> and now off to my next gig...
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  270. # [19:49] <yzen> eeejay: hi
  271. # [20:01] <@eeejay> yzen, yo. At a conference presentation.
  272. # [20:02] <yzen> eeejay: oh alright, i just wanted to ping you about the 2 patches for tables that's all :)
  273. # [20:03] <@eeejay> yzen: I'll look at it when I am near a computer.
  274. # [20:04] <yzen> eeejay: thanks!
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  277. # [20:24] <@firebot> birunthan@mohanathas.com requested review from surkov.alexander@gm ail.com for attachment 768460 on bug 429990.
  278. # [20:24] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429990 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, check in/out arguments on NULL in MSAA/IA2 methods
  279. # [20:26] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
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  281. # [20:33] <stevefaulkner> davidb: re aria-hidden I opened a bug when it was initially added to the spec https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22195 if you have any comments please add 'em
  282. # [20:35] <stevefaulkner> davidb: brings up the question of whether this sort of stuff would be better specced in the API guide as it really has little to do with ARIA, will bring it up alex
  283. # [20:35] <@davidb> he might have an opinion yeah
  284. # [20:35] <stevefaulkner> surkov that is
  285. # [20:35] <@davidb> i'm just sad that ARIA has strayed so far from KISS
  286. # [20:36] <@davidb> but that's trying to say a lot maybe to succinctly
  287. # [20:36] <@davidb> too
  288. # [20:39] <stevefaulkner> davidb: unsure if that is ARIA's fault, I think that it has something to do with trying to use ARIA to define the mappings for HTML features, which is an abstraction thats not particularly helpful unless the ARIA properties are not represented in APIs
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  301. # [22:06] <@eeejay> yzen, so sorry! i thought i already reviewed those.
  302. # [22:06] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org granted review for attachment 767600 on bug 830748.
  303. # [22:06] <yzen> eeejay: well one of them you did, but i made a tiny change :)
  304. # [22:06] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=830748 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, ASSI, [AccessFu] Improve reading of table semantics
  305. # [22:07] * Joins: icaaq (Adium@moz-2EB07EA7.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  306. # [22:07] <@eeejay> yeah, i thought i r+ed it yesterday already
  307. # [22:07] <yzen> eeejay: thanks! quick question re shortening the constant prefixes
  308. # [22:07] <@eeejay> yzen, yeah?
  309. # [22:07] <yzen> eeejay: i noticed you started taking them out already in some of the pages
  310. # [22:07] <yzen> patches
  311. # [22:08] <@eeejay> yzen, yeah, i just quickly did that for traversal rules
  312. # [22:09] <yzen> eeejay: do you still want to keep then in a single place ? i was thinking something like this Constants("SOME_ACCESSIBLE_EVENT") that would live in Utils ?
  313. # [22:09] <yzen> ^ just an example
  314. # [22:09] <yzen> and the actual values could be cached too
  315. # [22:09] <@eeejay> yzen, nah.
  316. # [22:09] <@eeejay> yzen, lets KISS
  317. # [22:09] <@eeejay> lol
  318. # [22:09] <@eeejay> keep it simple stupid
  319. # [22:10] <yzen> lol
  320. # [22:11] <yzen> eeejay: so just some object with the constants used ?
  321. # [22:11] <@eeejay> yzen, i don't understand
  322. # [22:12] <yzen> eeejay: oh, sorry i m overcomplicating it :S, i guess you mean something like the gRole in place of Ci.nsIAccessible ?
  323. # [22:13] <yzen> eeejay: so Ci.nsIAccessible.ROLE_DOCUMENT becomes gRole.ROLE_DOCUMENT
  324. # [22:13] <yzen> >
  325. # [22:13] <yzen> ?
  326. # [22:13] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org granted review for attachment 767601 on bug 886846.
  327. # [22:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886846 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Verify (with tests) that the non-default output order works well for tables and cells.
  328. # [22:13] <@eeejay> yzen, or even simpler, in the global scope
  329. # [22:14] <@eeejay> Ci.nsIAccessibleRole.ROLE_DOCUMENT becomes ROLE_DOCUMENT
  330. # [22:14] <@eeejay> the constants already have explanatory prefixis
  331. # [22:14] <yzen> eeejay: alright i'll try that
  332. # [22:14] <@eeejay> prefixes
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  334. # [22:15] <yzen> eeejay: ok, and re table/cell patches do you want me to push them ?
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  336. # [22:17] <@eeejay> yzen, yup
  337. # [22:17] <yzen> ok
  338. # [22:18] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted review for attachment 768460 on bug 429990.
  339. # [22:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429990 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, check in/out arguments on NULL in MSAA/IA2 methods
  340. # [22:29] * khuey|away is now known as khuey
  341. # [22:33] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 429990 from nobody@mozilla.org to birunthan@mohanathas.com.
  342. # [22:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=429990 nor, --, ---, birunthan, NEW, check in/out arguments on NULL in MSAA/IA2 methods
  343. # [22:34] * Quits: peteb-away (ptbrunet@moz-B51E1692.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout)
  344. # [22:34] <@eeejay> yzen, have you landed your patches yet?
  345. # [22:34] <yzen> eeejay: about to
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  347. # [22:34] <@eeejay> yzen, ok. i have a bunch to land too. i'll wait and rebase after you
  348. # [22:34] <yzen> ok give me 5min
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The end :)