/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2013-07-08 / end
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- # Session Start: Mon Jul 08 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [02:54] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com granted in-testsuite on bug 877977.
- # [02:54] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877977 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, getTextAtOffset line end boundary returns wrong end offset
- # [02:56] <@firebot> surkov.alexander@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 877977 from nobody@mozilla.org to surkov.alexander@gmail.com.
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- # [03:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 875794 from --- to FIXED.
- # [03:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 875794 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED.
- # [03:38] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 875794 from --- to mozilla25.
- # [03:38] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=875794 maj, --, mozilla25, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, get text at offset for line boundary fails on last empty line
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- # [04:48] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 890760 filed by jruderman@gmail.com.
- # [04:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890760 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, "ASSERTION: No nsIAccessibleText for selection change event!"
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- # Session Close: Mon Jul 08 07:21:50 2013
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- # Session Start: Mon Jul 08 07:21:50 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [12:06] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | goals: http://is.gd/Z9USZ5'
- # [12:06] * Set by davidb on Thu Jun 27 15:28:58
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- # Session Start: Mon Jul 08 12:23:09 2013
- # Session Ident: #accessibility
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- # [12:24] * Topic is 'build the web for everyone | goals: http://is.gd/Z9USZ5'
- # [12:24] * Set by davidb on Thu Jun 27 15:28:58
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- # [14:16] <Gijs> surkov: ping? :)
- # [14:16] <@surkov> Gijs: pong
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- # [14:17] <Gijs> surkov: could you have a look at this needinfo?marco that I made over the weekend? I realized later that maybe this is more your domain, but I'm not sure. To do with XBL-exposed nsIAccessibleProviders... : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890476#c12
- # [14:17] <@firebot> Bug 890476 nor, --, ---, gijskruitbosch+bugs, NEW, Don't build the menubar on OS X
- # [14:18] <@surkov> Gijs: sure I will
- # [14:26] <@surkov> Gijs: not sure I can be helpful here but commented my thoughts
- # [14:26] <Gijs> surkov: OK, thanks for taking a look! :)
- # [14:26] <Gijs> The 0 height toolbar... well... this is more or less how it's always been, I'm pretty sure.
- # [14:27] <Gijs> I don't know why it's not just collapsed, but I guess it has to do with building the real application menu from it.
- # [14:27] <Gijs> Is marcoz in Toronto, or did I make that up? :)
- # [14:28] <Gijs> surkov: oh, hang on... I can just use DOMI to check whether there's an accessible created for it, right? :)
- # [14:30] <@surkov> Gijs: technically yes but I guess some extra stuff might happen on OS X level
- # [14:30] <Gijs> Aha.
- # [14:30] <Gijs> Yeah, it shows up in DOMI as an accessible object but without a name and with no children. :s
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- # [15:22] <@davidb> marcoz: shall we do our 1:1 randomly this week?
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- # [15:26] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 890901 filed by eitan@monotonous.org.
- # [15:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890901 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Support continuous reading in Android
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- # [15:35] <marcoz1> davidb: Yup! :)
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- # [15:35] <@davidb> ok
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- # [15:36] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 890696 from nobody@mozilla.org to yura.zenevich@gmail.com.
- # [15:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890696 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Web app support broken in current nightlies for Android
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- # [15:45] <@davidb> surkov, MarcoZ, eeejay, yzen, maxli, tbsaunde we could build our agenda for the week. what would you like to get done this week?
- # [15:45] * @eeejay is open to tasks/agenda/tired
- # [15:45] <@davidb> for example, help MarcoZ get his ff os build setup
- # [15:45] <@eeejay> ok!
- # [15:46] <@davidb> i will build the agenda from your ideas :)
- # [15:49] <@davidb> ok! easy week! :)
- # [15:49] <@MarcoZ> davidb, et al: I'd say go through some more commonly voiced feedback and file (and fix?) bugs like eeejayjust did with bug 890901. Specifically focused on Android.
- # [15:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890901 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Support continuous reading in Android
- # [15:49] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org cancelled review?(eitan@monotonous.or g) for attachment 771066 on bug 886074.
- # [15:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886074 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Braille should update when editing
- # [15:50] <@davidb> ok so I'll mark this down as an android triage/test push?
- # [15:50] <@davidb> at some point, as is tradition, i'd like to blue sky with all of you
- # [15:51] <@davidb> high altitude look at a11y landscape
- # [15:51] <@davidb> just an hour or so
- # [15:52] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 890901 from nobody@mozilla.org to yura.zenevich@gmail.com.
- # [15:53] <yzen> MarcoZ: do you have any additional comments re bug 890901, ill try to take a look at it shortly
- # [15:54] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Not currently, no.
- # [16:03] <@tbsaunde> davidb: no firm plans, and I can talk to surkov pretty much whenever I guess
- # [16:03] <@davidb> indeed
- # [16:04] <@surkov> yep, it'd be nice to hang and chat
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- # [16:13] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 890901 from --- to WONTFIX.
- # [16:13] <@firebot> yura.zenevich@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 890901 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [16:13] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890901 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, RESO WONTFIX, [AccessFu] Support continuous reading in Android
- # [16:14] <@davidb> tbsaunde: what was that growl?
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- # [16:17] <Gijs> marcoz: thanks for the quick response on the needinfo! :)
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- # [17:01] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 890940 filed by maxli@maxli.ca.
- # [17:01] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890940 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, [AccessFu] Visual bounds box is very wrong
- # [17:02] <@surkov> davidb: did you know that native semantics wins over ARIA nowadays (http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#mapping_conflicts)?
- # [17:02] <@davidb> surkov: this is something i continuously argue against
- # [17:03] <@surkov> it seems not very successfully :)
- # [17:03] <@davidb> surkov: there were cases we implemented first… like landmarks not overriding a <table>
- # [17:03] <@davidb> success would require me to watchdog too much
- # [17:03] <@surkov> landmarks add semantics so they should be different
- # [17:03] <@davidb> agreed
- # [17:03] <@davidb> surkov: what are the cases in this doc? /me reads
- # [17:04] <@surkov> like aria-checked and checked on input
- # [17:04] <@surkov> personally I'm fine if checked on input wins aria-checked
- # [17:05] <@davidb> yeah i'm not totally happy with that myself
- # [17:05] <@davidb> but it sounds like a weird edge case
- # [17:06] <@davidb> because: if you can use checked, don't use aria-checked… so if they *do* use aria-checked… then the only reason is to explain a weird situation
- # [17:06] <@davidb> (only valid reason)
- # [17:06] <@davidb> surkov: so this section of the guide is saying the host language can specify places aria does not override, correct?
- # [17:07] <@surkov> davidb: seems so
- # [17:07] <@surkov> read from: When WAI-ARIA states and properties correspond to host language features that have the same implicit WAI-ARIA semantic, it can be problematic if the values become out of sync.
- # [17:07] <@davidb> ARIA has become very non-simple
- # [17:08] <@davidb> I can be okay with allowing native to win direct conflict. okay but not happy :)
- # [17:08] <@davidb> anyways it is an error case really, or a bad pattern
- # [17:09] <@surkov> it's just weird if sighted and blind users have the same control in different states
- # [17:09] <@surkov> not sure why it's needed
- # [17:09] <@davidb> (to me it is a bit like saying here is an image, src="happy.jpg" alt="sad face")
- # [17:09] <@davidb> (I would respect the alt text)
- # [17:10] <@surkov> yep sort of
- # [17:12] <@davidb> surkov: the editor of ARIA disagrees with me, so a hard battle.
- # [17:12] <@surkov> I bet
- # [17:13] <@surkov> davidb: we need to have a bug then? or are we going to battle?
- # [17:14] <@davidb> surkov: what do you think?
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- # [17:14] <@surkov> davidb: well, I think I'm fine that native semantics wins over ARIA when they are in conflict
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- # [17:14] <@davidb> ok yeah and battle is more costly
- # [17:14] <@davidb> a bug then.
- # [17:16] <SteveF> davidb:surkov: thats only for roles no?
- # [17:17] <SteveF> for states and properties native wins
- # [17:17] <SteveF> "When a host language declares a WAI-ARIA attribute to be in direct semantic conflict with a native attribute for a given element, user agents MUST ignore the WAI-ARIA attribute and instead use the host language attribute with the same implicit semantic. "
- # [17:17] <@davidb> that's right
- # [17:18] <SteveF> so where is the conflict?
- # [17:18] <@davidb> SteveF: we like aria to always win
- # [17:18] <@davidb> but anyways.
- # [17:19] <SteveF> davidb: ok i misread alex's point anyway - ignore me
- # [17:19] <@davidb> heheh
- # [17:21] <@firebot> eitan@monotonous.org granted feedback for attachment 771615 on bug 888256.
- # [17:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=888256 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Speak landmarks
- # [17:21] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 890949 filed by dbolter@mozilla.com.
- # [17:21] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890949 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Spec conformance: make native win when in direct conflict with "aria-" semantic.
- # [17:26] <@firebot> mounir@lamouri.fr requested review from neil@httl.net for attachment 771980 on bug 291082.
- # [17:26] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291082 nor, --, ---, almasry.mina, NEW, preventDefault doesn't block keyboard navigation in select-one drop-down lists
- # [17:28] <@surkov> davidb: I'm curious why Rich doesn't have tests for those
- # [17:28] <@surkov> is test suite finsihed?
- # [17:28] <@davidb> not sure
- # [17:29] <@davidb> it is fairly exhaustive but maybe it is based on spec tables more than paragraphs.
- # [17:29] <@surkov> I see
- # [17:47] <@davidb> marcoz: should i check that box?
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- # [17:49] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com granted feedback for attachment 771615 on bug 888256.
- # [17:49] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=888256 nor, --, ---, yura.zenevich, NEW, [AccessFu] Speak landmarks
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- # [17:55] <@tbsaunde> davidb: fwiw I'd argue for checked and aria-checked being an error with undefined behaviour, but I'd probably just have us let aria over ride just to avoid a bunch of special cases
- # [17:57] <@davidb> it is good to have interoperability on error handlign
- # [17:57] <@davidb> but yeah
- # [17:59] <@tbsaunde> I guess, you have a little bit of a point, but I care more about perf than idiots
- # [18:01] <@davidb> approved
- # [18:05] <@marcoz> davidb: Have a working Firefox OS build env. Guess I can go home now. ;)
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- # [18:08] <@davidb> lol
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- # [18:29] <@firebot> jsmith@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 890696 from --- to DUPLICATE.
- # [18:29] <@firebot> jsmith@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 890696 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [18:30] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=890696 maj, --, ---, yura.zenevich, RESO DUPLICATE, [AccessFu] Web app support broken in current nightlies for Android
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- # [18:48] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from eitan@monotonous.or g for attachment 772133 on bug 886074.
- # [18:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886074 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Braille should update when editing
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- # [19:33] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it shouldn't be slower if we had a right impl, for example if we had a flag of what we checked already then checking the flag is cheaper than checking the attribute
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- # [19:50] <@firebot> almasry.mina@gmail.com cancelled review?(neil@httl.net) for attachment 771980 on bug 291082.
- # [19:50] <@firebot> almasry.mina@gmail.com requested review from mounir@lamouri.fr for attachment 772176 on bug 291082.
- # [19:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291082 nor, --, ---, almasry.mina, NEW, preventDefault doesn't block keyboard navigation in select-one drop-down lists
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- # [20:19] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I'm not sure how that would work
- # [20:20] <@surkov> tbsaunde: I don't' have specific steps in my mind, anyway I wouldn't change anything until it prevents ARIA from getting a standard
- # [20:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: ok
- # [20:27] <@tbsaunde> surkov: btw what test suit do you mean in bug 810268?
- # [20:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=810268 nor, --, ---, nobody, NEW, there's no way to know unselected item when selection in single selection was changed
- # [20:27] <@surkov> tbsaunde: ARIA's one
- # [20:29] <@tbsaunde> surkov: interesting
- # [20:29] <@surkov> tbsaunde: why?
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- # [20:37] <@tbsaunde> surkov: I just don't get how there test is testing it
- # [20:39] <@surkov> tbsaunde: it seems not automated test suite
- # [20:39] <@surkov> it's just a web page and somebody checks it with a tool
- # [20:39] <@tbsaunde> k
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- # [21:36] <@firebot> scoobidiver@netcourrier.com changed the Component on bug 888981 from Untriaged to Disability Access APIs.
- # [21:36] <@firebot> scoobidiver@netcourrier.com changed the Product on bug 888981 from Firefox to Core.
- # [21:36] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=888981 cri, --, ---, trev.saunders, NEW, DownThemAll! causes browser to hang indefinitely
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- # [22:28] <@tbsaunde> q0/win 20
- # [22:30] <@davidb> sounds like we are getting a storm in about 30 minutes
- # [22:30] <@tbsaunde> planning on heading out soon?
- # [22:31] <@davidb> yes i will catch my express bus today
- # [22:31] <@davidb> i'll stay late tues weds thurs
- # [22:31] <@davidb> i could come back downtown tonight but probably a good rest evening.
- # [22:32] <@tbsaunde> what is this rest of which you speak?
- # [22:32] <@davidb> heh
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- # [22:32] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 877977 from --- to FIXED.
- # [22:32] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 877977 from NEW to RESOLVED.
- # [22:33] <@firebot> ryanvm@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 877977 from --- to mozilla25.
- # [22:33] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877977 nor, --, mozilla25, surkov.alexander, RESO FIXED, getTextAtOffset line end boundary returns wrong end offset
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- # [22:46] <davidb|mobile> caught my express bus. rain just starting.
- # [22:47] <davidb|mobile> worst of it might pass north of us
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- # [23:50] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca cancelled review?(eitan@monotonous.or g) for attachment 772133 on bug 886074.
- # [23:50] <@firebot> maxli@maxli.ca requested review from eitan@monotonous.or g for attachment 772348 on bug 886074.
- # [23:50] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=886074 nor, --, ---, maxli, NEW, [AccessFu] Braille should update when editing
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- # Session Close: Tue Jul 09 00:00:00 2013
The end :)